Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics

Saturday, December 20, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home heating oil price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 19 2008 11:44 pm
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <7878c47e-937e-4c19-99f6-
dcb2ca54085c@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, tmclone@searchmachine.com
(tmclone@searchmachine.com) says...

> Umm, no, that's just state and fed. The property taxes are another
> $4800 on top of the $6000. Weird part is that my income taxes weren't
> much higher when I was making $45K a few years ago. It's being self-
> employed that's screwing me.

You really need to talk to a good accountant. The tax laws in the USA
are written to pamper small businesses. You should be paying hardly any
tax at all.

An accountant will probably get you incorporated. Once you are
incorporated, you can rent a room in your house to the corporation as an
office, for around $800 a month. You don't pay social security tax on
that $800, because it's not earned income. The tax code is full of
investment tax credits and accelerated depreciation schedules. A good
tax accountant will cost you about $400, and save you about $4000 of
that $6000 you are paying in state and federal tax.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:23 am
From: Napoleon

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:35:19 -0800, Larry Caldwell
<firstnamelastinitial@peaksky.com> wrote:

>It's a payroll tax, only assessed against earned income. All other
>income is exempt. For example, you don't pay FICA on interest, dividends
>or rental income. For now. The system is going broke, so they have the
>choice of reducing benefits, raising the rate, or broadening the tax
>base. I'm betting they broaden the tax base, and make all income
>subject to FICA.

Oh no, they are going to raise the age you can collect SS. Everyone
knows that. See, it'll stay the same age until the baby boomers retire
and then whoop- up to 77-80 for us Xers. I can't believe people even
believe they will live to that retirement age, let alone in good
health to enjoy their SS savings in their "golden years."

That's why I don't participate in any IRA, 401K scams. I have my money
in liquid assets such as CDs or simple savings accounts. Yeah I don't
get all the measly tax benefits, but I sure can get at it when I want
to. The government's not getting its 40% if I want to close out a CD
and withdraw MY MONEY.

-N

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:27 am
From: Napoleon

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:00:30 -0500, Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com>
wrote:

>Just for giggles- how do you survive in the luxurious Onondaga county
>on your $9000 after taxes income?

It's not a joke. I live in Onondaga county and there are MANY, MANY
people living on that wage (and even lower) after paying taxes to the
man. Welcome to America, a third-world country full of poor people.

And the OP was right about the property taxes here and the state
income taxes for the self-employed. Yes, I do plan on moving, but it's
going to be out the country, not just the state. Unless, that is I can
get me one of those "green jobs" from the messiah Obama.

-N

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:18 am
From: Jim

Napoleon wrote:
>
[....]
>
> income taxes for the self-employed.

very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.

with all things being equal between the factory employed worker and
the self employed worker with both having a taxable income of 20,000
dollars the self employed person pays an additional 15% over and above
that of the factory worker.

I've always thought it was some power hungry power monger who having
been offended by their lack of control over the self employed decided
to compensate their feelings of inadequacy with an additional tax.

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 6:26 am
From: clams_casino

Napoleon wrote:

>
>That's why I don't participate in any IRA, 401K scams. I have my money
>in liquid assets such as CDs or simple savings accounts. Yeah I don't
>get all the measly tax benefits, but I sure can get at it when I want
>to. The government's not getting its 40% if I want to close out a CD
>and withdraw MY MONEY.
>
>-N
>
>

Since gains via Roth are tax free, isn't that a double advantage where
Roth money can be used to supplement SS, resulting in minimal, if any
tax on the SS money?

Furthermore, the government has already got their 40% if you used after
tax money to purchase that CD. All you've done is paid it in advance,
plus you are paying taxes on the gain and you'll be paying taxes on more
of your SS when your taxable interest increases your taxable income.

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 6:29 am
From: clams_casino

Jim wrote:

>Napoleon wrote:
>
>
>[....]
>
>
>>income taxes for the self-employed.
>>
>>
>
>very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
>do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
>
>

Actually, it's an extra 7.5% plus the tax on income to earn that,
perhaps an additional 30% over the 7.5%.

(The additional 7.5% is paid using after tax money).

>with all things being equal between the factory employed worker and
>the self employed worker with both having a taxable income of 20,000
>dollars the self employed person pays an additional 15% over and above
>that of the factory worker.
>
>

Of course, the self employed has the advantages of more deductions,
such as use of car, home, etc.

>I've always thought it was some power hungry power monger who having
>been offended by their lack of control over the self employed decided
>to compensate their feelings of inadequacy with an additional tax.
>

And of course, all the self employed declare 100% of their income.

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 7:20 am
From: Ann

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:29:57 -0500, clams_casino wrote:

> Jim wrote:
>
>>Napoleon wrote:
>>
>>
>>[....]
>>
>>
>>>income taxes for the self-employed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed do
>>indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
>>
>>
>>
> Actually, it's an extra 7.5% plus the tax on income to earn that, perhaps
> an additional 30% over the 7.5%.
>
> (The additional 7.5% is paid using after tax money).
>
>>with all things being equal between the factory employed worker and the
>>self employed worker with both having a taxable income of 20,000 dollars
>>the self employed person pays an additional 15% over and above that of
>>the factory worker.
>>
>>
>>
> Of course, the self employed has the advantages of more deductions, such
> as use of car, home, etc.
>
>>I've always thought it was some power hungry power monger who having been
>>offended by their lack of control over the self employed decided to
>>compensate their feelings of inadequacy with an additional tax.
>>
>>
>
> And of course, all the self employed declare 100% of their income.

Plus, they never use their sales tax exemption when they buy items for
personal use. And always remit all the sales tax they always charge their
customers.

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:35 am
From: Jim Elbrecht

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:27:24 -0500, Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:00:30 -0500, Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Just for giggles- how do you survive in the luxurious Onondaga county
>>on your $9000 after taxes income?
>
>It's not a joke. I live in Onondaga county and there are MANY, MANY
>people living on that wage (and even lower) after paying taxes to the
>man. Welcome to America, a third-world country full of poor people.

I don't doubt there are loads of folks living on 20K. What I doubt
is that many of them are paying 54% of that in taxes.

>And the OP was right about the property taxes here and the state
>income taxes for the self-employed.

The OP is obviously talking out his butt. I'll give you a shot. Name
a tax NY imposes on the self-employed. [for that matter- the feds
don't impose any extra taxes either. The employer pays them whether
the employer is yourself or someone else.]

>Yes, I do plan on moving, but it's
>going to be out the country, not just the state. Unless, that is I can
>get me one of those "green jobs" from the messiah Obama.

What's with all this 'plan on' crap. Go for it. Saddest thing in
the world is some old fart saying 'if only I had. . . .".

Worst thing that can happen is that you'll learn that taxes are high
and life is tough all over. Best thing is that you'll find Shangri La
and live happily ever after. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

But what do I know? I like it here and I've lived in NY for 53 of
my 57 years.

Jim

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 12:03 pm
From: The Real Bev

Larry Caldwell wrote:

> In article <F3W2l.49847$5P1.26231@newsfe13.iad>,
> PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com (clams_casino) says...
>> Ann wrote:
>
>> >FICA is not "income tax". It's your payment into a
>> >retirement/disability/etc fund, which you probably will get back in the
>> >future. And you'd pay that no matter what state you lived in.
>
>> Since when? Even the federal government refers to it as a payroll tax
>> where they publish "tax rate" tables.
>
> It's a payroll tax, only assessed against earned income. All other
> income is exempt. For example, you don't pay FICA on interest, dividends
> or rental income. For now. The system is going broke, so they have the
> choice of reducing benefits, raising the rate, or broadening the tax
> base. I'm betting they broaden the tax base, and make all income
> subject to FICA.

We have some supposedly tax-exempt bonds. You have to include your
tax-exempt income on the 1040 now, and it makes a difference in whether
or not and how much of your Social Security income is taxable. Doesn't
sound like "tax exempt" to me...

The bastards will ALWAYS cheat. Whatever they call it, if they can
ultimately throw you in jail if you don't pay it it's a tax.

--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:33 pm
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <nmopk4dneqooep3lg3b3om4pcl0opkag70@4ax.com>, anarch@
666yes.net (Napoleon) says...

> Oh no, they are going to raise the age you can collect SS. Everyone
> knows that. See, it'll stay the same age until the baby boomers retire
> and then whoop- up to 77-80 for us Xers. I can't believe people even
> believe they will live to that retirement age, let alone in good
> health to enjoy their SS savings in their "golden years."

That's pretty well covered under "reducing benefits". However, the
boomers are not exempt. There is no way the system can provide benefits
for them under current levels. You are right about raising the
retirement age. Current age for full retirement is 66 years 4 months,
and I think it is scheduled to go to 70 or 72 over the next decade as
more boomers retire. That won't be enough.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:36 pm
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <9g73l.65332$JU5.51117@newsfe20.iad>,
PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com (clams_casino) says...

> Furthermore, the government has already got their 40% if you used after
> tax money to purchase that CD.

If you are paying 40% of your income in taxes, you REALLY need to hire a
good accountant. You are obviously making over a quarter of a million a
year, so you can afford it.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:39 pm
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <494CF0B8.669E14F9@bellsouth.net>, jim@bellsouth.net (Jim)
says...

> very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
> do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.

7.5%. And of course, the self-employed have access to hundreds of tax
breaks not available to wage earner. Anything sheltered by the business
is not taxable at all. The tax code is written to give businesses a
free ride.

It sounds like you guys are screwing yourselves blind. Talk to a good
tax accountant. Really. Get organized, and you get to keep your money.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:49 pm
From: Neon John

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com wrote:

>Whatever. I pay $4800 taxes on a house assessed at $120k. I pay $6000
>income taxes on an income of $20k. It all seems obscenely high to me.

Holy sh*t! My 1000 sq ft cabin is appraised at $60,000 which is far too high
but this is a fishing resort. Anwhere else it would run in the $35 to $40k
range. Anyway, my property tax last year was $947.40. No state income tax.

I don't see how you exist in NY, much less live. I'm disabled (but not
"drawing") and my combined income this year will be under $10k, yet I can live
like a king. Well, if not a king, at least like I want to.

Here's a table of TN property taxes by county and city. Something to cry over
:-)

http://www.comptroller1.state.tn.us/PAnew/LR.asp?W=07

JOhn
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming' sheep.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Digital vs Analog cordless Phone? Health Radiation is the same?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/45689cba95ca38f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 12:11 am
From: Dave Garland

lbbss wrote:
> more power equals more radiation? is that correct?

The "radiation" is the "radio signal" that the phone makes. So yes,
more power equals more radio signal, that's the whole point of more
power, otherwise it's just wasted.

> I read some info on the web suggesting that the new Dect technology is
> worst for you, because of the lower frequencies (1.9Ghz) affects your
> cells in a negative way.

That is not generally accepted. In any case (in the US) cordless
phones do not operate at 1.9GHz. The possible bands in order of
increasing frequency are 46MHz (if it's a real antique), 900MHz,
2.4GHz, and 5.8GHz (some 5.8GHz phones use the 2.4GHz band for the
handset). Some of these bands are also used for other things, like
microwave ovens and computer wifi.

Dave

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TOPIC: how to get replacement cables for Weider home Gym?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/070e8637d47fd3b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:06 am
From: OhioGuy

I have a Weider System 3 (15922) Cross Trainer home Gym that is
having a problem. The system uses cheap plastic pulleys, so they coated
the metal cables with plastic so that they wouldn't wear the pulleys.

The trouble is, the plastic coating is coming off all the cables,
which makes it very difficult to do the exercises. The plastic coming
off and bulging out makes the resistance variable, and sometimes
downright impossible.

I tried searches online for replacement parts, and found that I could
easily spend $60 just replacing one cable with an official part. That
is about what I paid for the whole thing.

My Dad suggested getting "aircraft cable", whatever that is. I'm
guessing it is a high quality metal cable you can get in a bulk roll.
If I could get something like that and cut it to length, I believe I
could easily replace what is on here.

The trouble is, where do you get the stuff? Anyone have an idea
where to get a good deal online for rolls of metal cable? They didn't
have any at my local hardware store. Thanks!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 7:32 am
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <giiql8$2k77$1@news.ett.com.ua>, OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
> I have a Weider System 3 (15922) Cross Trainer home Gym that is
>having a problem. The system uses cheap plastic pulleys, so they coated
>the metal cables with plastic so that they wouldn't wear the pulleys.
[ ... ]

It's also serving the purpose of noise reduction, and was probably
intended to trap any broken strands of wire.

> My Dad suggested getting "aircraft cable", whatever that is. I'm
>guessing it is a high quality metal cable you can get in a bulk roll.
>If I could get something like that and cut it to length, I believe I
>could easily replace what is on here.

Wire cable is used in small aircraft for connecting control surfaces
to controls, or for bracing (i.e., on biplanes). The material used on
aircraft has to meet tight standards on strength, flexibility, and
corrosion resistance, and is usually made from stainless steel wire.
It's also more expensive than regular steel cable.

> The trouble is, where do you get the stuff? Anyone have an idea
>where to get a good deal online for rolls of metal cable? They didn't
>have any at my local hardware store. Thanks!

A search on "vinyl covered wire cable" turned up these and more:

http://www.stageriggingonline.com/cable1.html?gclid=CPTP6di9z5cCFRLoxgodYxFoDg

http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/wirerope_cable/wirerope-intro.html?gclid=CMOh9d69z5cCFRJ4xgodawEdEA

http://www.smallparts.com/s?ie=UTF8&refinementHistory=material_browse%2Csubjectbin%2Cbreaking_strength%2Cmanufacturer%2Cbrandtextbin%2Cenc-merchantbin%2Cavailability_class%2Cavailability%2Creview-rating%2Cdate%2Cis_prime&pf_rd_r=1VH14FSBS0N6RPCXECQR&pf_rd_p=417978301&searchNodeID=16413891&pf_rd_i=0&searchRank=salesrank&pf_rd_s=center-2&searchSize=25&pf_rd_m=AIUBT5HP6PMAF&field_material_browse=16414671&pf_rd_t=301&searchBinNameList=material_browse%2Csubjectbin%2Cbreaking_strength%2Cmanufacturer%2Cbrandtextbin%2Cenc-merchantbin%2Cavailability_class%2Cavailability%2Creview-rating%2Cdate%2Cis_prime&gclid=CMeQv6a_z5cCFRJxxwodDlNhDw

You might have better luck using the nylon coated products, as they'll
probably hold up better.

If there's a stage or theatrical supply company near you, they may have
cable available--the smaller sizes are used for safety lines for stage
lights, for example.

You'll need a good heavy-duty pair of cutters, a hacksaw, or a Dremel
tool or similar rotary tool to cut it with. I've also used a cold
chisel and hand sledge with success on smaller cable. Wrap electrical
tape around it to reduce fraying when cutting.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:44 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

OhioGuy wrote:
> I have a Weider System 3 (15922) Cross Trainer home Gym that is
> having a problem. The system uses cheap plastic pulleys, so they coated
> the metal cables with plastic so that they wouldn't wear the pulleys.
>
> The trouble is, the plastic coating is coming off all the cables,
> which makes it very difficult to do the exercises. The plastic coming
> off and bulging out makes the resistance variable, and sometimes
> downright impossible.
>
> I tried searches online for replacement parts, and found that I could
> easily spend $60 just replacing one cable with an official part. That
> is about what I paid for the whole thing.
>
> My Dad suggested getting "aircraft cable", whatever that is. I'm
> guessing it is a high quality metal cable you can get in a bulk roll.
> If I could get something like that and cut it to length, I believe I
> could easily replace what is on here.
>
> The trouble is, where do you get the stuff? Anyone have an idea
> where to get a good deal online for rolls of metal cable? They didn't
> have any at my local hardware store. Thanks!

Just check around the big box stores and major hardware stores for
coated cables. I have regularly purchased them by the foot in various
diameters. Don't just buy something without touching and feeling it.
Some of those cables could be too stiff for your equipment. You want
cables with the most number of strands, which gives the flexibility
you need.

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/17cb41e81b18f03b?hl=en
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TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:07 am
From: "Bill"

I went beyond turning things off with a power strip. I now turn un-needed
things off when the power strip is on!

Instead of one power strip, I now have 4 power strips in some cases. The
kind without any lights on the switches.

So for my entertainment center, there is a DVD, Satellite TV, Stereo, and
Playstation. Before these were all on one power strip. Now with 4 power
strips, I can turn on just the things I am going to use.

For example the Playstation. This was always being turned on with the main
power strip. But this is used maybe twice a month. So now it is always off
unless we are going to use it. And when we are using that, we are not using
the satellite TV or DVD, so those are turned off.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 12:51 pm
From: Cinnamin

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:07:39 -0800, "Bill"
<billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I went beyond turning things off with a power strip. I now turn un-needed
>things off when the power strip is on!
>
>Instead of one power strip, I now have 4 power strips in some cases. The
>kind without any lights on the switches.
>
>So for my entertainment center, there is a DVD, Satellite TV, Stereo, and
>Playstation. Before these were all on one power strip. Now with 4 power
>strips, I can turn on just the things I am going to use.
>
>For example the Playstation. This was always being turned on with the main
>power strip. But this is used maybe twice a month. So now it is always off
>unless we are going to use it. And when we are using that, we are not using
>the satellite TV or DVD, so those are turned off.
>

I like that idea! I will have to try it.

This year I weaned myself away from soda. Amazing how much better I
feel and how little I miss it.

Cin.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Balck and Decker Power Monitor frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d61157f837e5fc08?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:14 am
From: "Bill"

Well this would indicate you are using too much electricity and then you
would need to do something to cut back electric use or not do something to
cut back on electric use.

You would not cut back on things you must have, like the refrigerator needs
to keep running, but you might turn off lights more and take fewer showers
if you have an electric water heater. Maybe use the microwave more. Install
CFL's. Insulate the house better and seal air leaks.

But you should be doing these things anyway if you feel your electric bill
is too high.

However this device will teach you how to save electricity and give you
instant feedback on your savings, so I guess it would be an excellent
training aid.

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> Would this device be frugal?
>
> It allows one to monitor power use in real time
>
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/Energy/products.aspx?WT.mc_id=BD00039

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 12:13 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>However this device will teach you how to save electricity and give you
>instant feedback on your savings, so I guess it would be an excellent
>training aid.

Yeah I'm just wondering if anyone out there has tried
one

And if its worth the $100!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: Boys Black & Blue Jeans (FUBU, Arizona) Buy 1 Get 4
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9bc11f6ec61ea42a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6ce5cce9be856543?hl=en
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Frugal Living

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Saturday, December 20, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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