http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 12 messages,
5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
* The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
* Hello Everyone - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aadd28a9b8682e15?hl=en
* Another good weekend of cheap finds - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e4b88c1d8c6eb66?hl=en
* Why not a holiday from auto buying? - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
* supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:43 am
From: Kurt Ullman
In article <grP_k.392690$3I2.296167@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
> S
> I agree. There are probably some kinds of fruits and vegetables that
> would become much more expensive if the pickers had to be paid in the
> minimum-to-$10 per hour area. The average family, acting as rational
> consumers, would slow or end their purchase of those products and pick
> others instead, whereupon the farmers would make rational choices, based
> on the shift in demand, to grow something else.
>
Some permutations of three things would happen (1) prices would rise,
(2) pay would rise (3) mechanization would increase.
== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:51 am
From: Kurt Ullman
In article <hhP_k.383183$vK2.332366@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
> thing is obviously playing in.
It's got nothing to do with private hospital chains. Some of the
hospitals run by the Sisters or other religious groups or other not for
profit are the worst offenders. Has to do with making health care into a
business. Has to do as much with reimbursement (specifically federal
reimbursement since studies show MCare and MCaid ALWAYS pay less than
the evil insurance companies for the same diagnosis) as anything one
thing in this area.
As with everything else it is multifactoral (for instance a lot of
the stuff the Joint Commission requires us to do means we spend much
more treating paper than patients), even to a certain amount turmoil
brought about those within the profession.
As an aside, the Joint Commission, I am convinced is set up to
accomplish three goals (1). Kill a certain number of trees each year,
(2). screw up healthcare productivity (3). annoy those on the front
lines that actually have to do the work. It does a bang up job of that
since no study in its entire history has ever linked Joint Commission
accreditation with any quality, safety, or other metric.
== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:03 am
From: clams_casino
John Galt wrote:
>
> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about
> 50K - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are
> regional, and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they
> are *not* being brought to save money -- they're being brought because
> there's not enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>
> JG
>
The primary problems with nursing are the wacky hours, expected
overtime and minimal increases in salary beyond that starting pay.
Teaching typically offers better wages (after several years), standard
hours and extensive vacation, holiday and sick time days with generous
pensions. Then again, it takes a different set of interests to deal
with the ill vs. keeping a classroom under control.
== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:16 am
From: John Galt
Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <grP_k.392690$3I2.296167@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
> John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> S
>> I agree. There are probably some kinds of fruits and vegetables that
>> would become much more expensive if the pickers had to be paid in the
>> minimum-to-$10 per hour area. The average family, acting as rational
>> consumers, would slow or end their purchase of those products and pick
>> others instead, whereupon the farmers would make rational choices, based
>> on the shift in demand, to grow something else.
>>
> Some permutations of three things would happen (1) prices would rise,
> (2) pay would rise (3) mechanization would increase.
Right. PRoductivity is always a factor. If labor costs $2, you don't
invest in machinery that might make the worker more productive.
JG
== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:18 am
From: John Galt
Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <hhP_k.383183$vK2.332366@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
> John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
>> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
>> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
>> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
>> thing is obviously playing in.
>
> It's got nothing to do with private hospital chains. Some of the
> hospitals run by the Sisters or other religious groups or other not for
> profit are the worst offenders. Has to do with making health care into a
> business. Has to do as much with reimbursement (specifically federal
> reimbursement since studies show MCare and MCaid ALWAYS pay less than
> the evil insurance companies for the same diagnosis) as anything one
> thing in this area.
> As with everything else it is multifactoral (for instance a lot of
> the stuff the Joint Commission requires us to do means we spend much
> more treating paper than patients), even to a certain amount turmoil
> brought about those within the profession.
> As an aside, the Joint Commission, I am convinced is set up to
> accomplish three goals (1). Kill a certain number of trees each year,
> (2). screw up healthcare productivity (3). annoy those on the front
> lines that actually have to do the work. It does a bang up job of that
> since no study in its entire history has ever linked Joint Commission
> accreditation with any quality, safety, or other metric.
We're not disagreeing on any point.
JG
== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:19 am
From: John Galt
clams_casino wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>
>>
>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about
>> 50K - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are
>> regional, and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they
>> are *not* being brought to save money -- they're being brought because
>> there's not enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>>
>> JG
>>
>
> The primary problems with nursing are the wacky hours, expected
> overtime and minimal increases in salary beyond that starting pay.
Well, wacky brings overtime, and nurses can always increase
certification to earn more. Surgical nurses make considerably more than
floor RNs.
> Teaching typically offers better wages (after several years), standard
> hours and extensive vacation, holiday and sick time days with generous
> pensions. Then again, it takes a different set of interests to deal
> with the ill vs. keeping a classroom under control.
Yep.
JG
>
== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 8:08 am
From: Kurt Ullman
In article <mPR_k.310962$1p1.266527@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > In article <hhP_k.383183$vK2.332366@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
> > John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
> >> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
> >> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
> >> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
> >> thing is obviously playing in.
> >
> > It's got nothing to do with private hospital chains. Some of the
> > hospitals run by the Sisters or other religious groups or other not for
> > profit are the worst offenders. Has to do with making health care into a
> > business. Has to do as much with reimbursement (specifically federal
> > reimbursement since studies show MCare and MCaid ALWAYS pay less than
> > the evil insurance companies for the same diagnosis) as anything one
> > thing in this area.
> > As with everything else it is multifactoral (for instance a lot of
> > the stuff the Joint Commission requires us to do means we spend much
> > more treating paper than patients), even to a certain amount turmoil
> > brought about those within the profession.
> > As an aside, the Joint Commission, I am convinced is set up to
> > accomplish three goals (1). Kill a certain number of trees each year,
> > (2). screw up healthcare productivity (3). annoy those on the front
> > lines that actually have to do the work. It does a bang up job of that
> > since no study in its entire history has ever linked Joint Commission
> > accreditation with any quality, safety, or other metric.
>
> We're not disagreeing on any point.
>
Other that the implication (and I apologize if I took it wrong)
that the consolidation of private hospital chains had much to do with
lousy nurse patient ratios. Haven't seen anything suggesting that for
profit chains are any worse than the not-for-profits, religious run or
even government hospitals.
== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:50 am
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
>> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>
>
> What teacher gets $30k /yr other than perhaps newly hired, just out of
> college? Here, they are paid an AVERAGE of $60k
----How many of those have doctorates or masters degrees, and have been
teaching for 20+ years? All of them?
plus very generous
> benefits benefits with very generous holiday, sick time and vacation
> time that no engineer could ever expect to see.
---I'm sure benefits at large corporations are comparable....
== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:00 am
From: suds macheath
Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <4ku_k.382964$vK2.67641@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
> John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
>> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
>> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
>> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>>
>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
>> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
>> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>> responsible for that dissonance?
> If I were a cynic, I would think that even imported teachers will
> have to join the teacher's union.
----In Texas? BWAHAHAHA....ever heard of "right to work"?
== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:06 am
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> John Galt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be
>>> grading papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>>
>>
>>
>> What teacher gets $30k /yr other than perhaps newly hired, just out
>> of college? Here, they are paid an AVERAGE of $60k
>
>
> ----How many of those have doctorates or masters degrees, and have
> been teaching for 20+ years? All of them?
That's the average. Those with masters tend to be paid $75k and up.
I'm not too sure many at the elementary / Jr high / High school level
have doctorates.
http://cspf.wordpress.com/2007/02/07/questioning-teacher-salaries-2/ is
a typical RI situation. Granted, teachers put in much over time, but
but salary position doesn't? I, for example, typically worked an
extra 8-12 hrs/ week (no overtime). Most I know in the corporate world
do / did similar overtime (without additional pay).
>
> plus very generous
>
>> benefits benefits with very generous holiday, sick time and vacation
>> time that no engineer could ever expect to see.
>
>
> ---I'm sure benefits at large corporations are comparable....
>
>
>
>
What corporation provides 12 weeks vacation per year? Other than UAW
and government employees, I'm not aware of many paying full (or even
90%) health coverage.
== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:10 am
From: "Lubow"
"John Galt" <kady101@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:LuF_k.382974$vK2.302392@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
> Lubow wrote:
>>>
>>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
>>> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>>>
>>
>> Thirty K per year? On which planet is that?
>
> Yours. The average teaching starting salary in the US is @ 32K. Look at the
> NEA website -- one of the things they are pushing for is a national minimum
> starting salary of 40K.
I have read of teachers in the red states requiring food stamps to get by.
Thanks for sharing that piece of info.
== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:10 am
From: suds macheath
harry wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:34 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>>> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
>>>> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
>>>> workers?
>>>> http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>>> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>>> ted
>> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
>> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
>> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
>> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
>> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
>> recruit them.)
>>
>> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
>> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
>> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
>> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>>
>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
>> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
>> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>> responsible for that dissonance?
>>
>> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
>> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
>> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
>> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
>> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
>> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
>> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is that
>> there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the jobs.
>>
>> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
>> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw, because
>> of the aforementioned shortage.)
>>
>> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa filing
>> is wage.
>>
>> JG
>
>>
> Hello JG,
>
> You sound quite sure of yourself:
>
> When i was a little girl, my family was quarantined because our duplex
> neighbor had suspect polio. When i was doing HHA work, not only were
> AIDS patients not quarantined, but there was some kind of "law" that
> stated no HHA was allowed to know whether or not the patient had AIDS.
> I quit the field, and went back to sitting behind a desk. A lot of
> people did similar.
>
> The public schools are full of jungle treachery and fear: no one from
> an organized, civilized, Christian society wants to live like that,
> and even many cannot, because of their breeding and upbringing.
>
> Now then for the replacements: Third-world mentality (The dumbing down
> of America)[please remember: you can even teach a horse to count, and
> "You can take the bunny out of the jungle, but you cannot take the
> jungle out of the bunny"] is replacing the organized, civilized,
> American Christian here in The United States Of America, while our
> young men are being killed off in pagan nations (genocide), where her
> leader (Oil-slick Bush, Just another one of the Jew's lackeys) calls
> her The Constitution Of The United States Of America, "Just a piece of
> paper", while stealing from and slaughtering anyone Jew tells him to.
>
> That, JG, is the big picture, now for the nitty-gritty:
>
> Truly
>
> Truth will set you free according to Jesus in John 8:32
>
> Wisdom [is] better than weapons of war: . . . Ecc 9:18
>
> Must Reads---->
> http://www.judicial-inc.biz
> http://www.jewwatch.com
>
> The Truth About the Khazar: tinyurl.com/697m21
> No Such Thing As "Jew": http://tinyurl.com/88y27
> Monarch Slave Abusers: http://www.heart7.net/programmers.html
> See Poor, Needy Jew Spend Your Hard-earned Wages (Foreign Aid):
> http://tinyurl.com/yx4d7r
> See Jew Murder USA Military Boys(USS LIBERTY): http://www.gtr5.com/
> See Jew Destroy Your Nation: http://www.judicial-inc.biz
> This proves America is in fact a Christian nation open to the
> oppressed and persecuted no matter what religion:
> http://www.tinyurl.com/lbgov
> "Christian" isnot a religion; itis a proven fact of/by prophecies
> culminated.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yw9x9c
> http://tinyurl.com/4td7bw
> http://tinyurl.com/ywfdbn
> http://www.cdlreport.com/
> http://www.rense.com/
> http://benfrank.net/
> http://www.whodidit.org/cocon.html
> http://www.nsm88.org/index2.html
>
> These are the "chosen": Rev. 17:14
> "Jew" are the "chosen" of Satan: John 8:44
> Jew Must Pay Up For Death of Our Saviour: Math. 27:25
---The lunatic fringe checks in.....
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:49 am
From: clams_casino
Dave wrote:
>
>
>Hmmmmm...let's see. All our jobs are going overseas, and the few remaining
>employers?
>
>
You still haven't explained why Honda, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Hyundai,
Mercedes and now Volkswagen set up production plants in the US.
Hint - cost of freight is negligible.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:51 am
From: clams_casino
Dave wrote:
>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:LZ9_k.14392$M33.1108@newsfe03.iad...
>
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Now I'm really confused. You condemn taxes, yet you support Palin
>>>>who's sole means to govern is by taxing oil company profits and
>>>>redistributing the bounty as welfare checks to all AK residents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Yes, you are confused. AK has a unique arrangement with the oil
>>>
>>>
>companies.
>
>
>>>It started probably before Sarah was even born. But I'd have to
>>>double-check that, to confirm that Sarah wasn't born yet. -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>So which is it? Do you believe government should balance it's books
>>by taxing companies to the maximum (i.e.. Palin's method of taxing oil
>>company profits)? Or reducing taxes on corporations?
>>
>>
>
>Neither. Again, Palin does not tax oil company profits. And AGAIN, Alaska
>has a unique arrangement with the oil companies that started before Sarah
>Palin was born. -Dave
>
>
>
>
OK - You answered it to my satisfaction. You are totally out of touch
with reality. Leave a closing comment to end your nonsense.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:55 am
From: clams_casino
hallerb@aol.com wrote:
>after doing a multi year look at reward cards I decided they arent
>worth the bother.
>
>
>
Situations differ, but I'm very pleased with the two $200 refund checks
I received from my Chase Freedom card this year - simply realized by
paying via cc vs. cash..
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hello Everyone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aadd28a9b8682e15?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:13 am
From: Seerialmom
On Dec 7, 2:30 am, Salford1 <vectisp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My name's Pete (from UK). Just joined the group & thought i'd
> introduce myself.
Sorry no one replied; it appears they're too busy trading barbs about
off topic subjects and rants about the world going to hell in a hand
basket. However, some of us do still try to post and reply to things
related to frugal living like how to save money on energy costs or hot
deals.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another good weekend of cheap finds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e4b88c1d8c6eb66?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:20 am
From: Seerialmom
Yesterday was great! In the local paper they had another $20 off $100
purchase at Raley's (chain in most of Calif.). Figured I'd go early
today while it's quiet; however anything I get must be 1. needed and
2. a better price than I can get elsewhere. Not as easy since they
aren't a discount store. But combining loss leaders and coupons
should work.
The other big score of the day was a Dyson vacuum in perfectly good
working condition I found at the Goodwill for....drumroll please....
$25! Sweet. I tested it there (it had dirt in the canister which I
dumped and revacuumed up). My daughter was often borrowing mine so my
plan as to give this one to her :)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:50 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com
On Dec 7, 10:20 am, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yesterday was great! In the local paper they had another $20 off $100
> purchase at Raley's (chain in most of Calif.). Figured I'd go early
> today while it's quiet; however anything I get must be 1. needed and
> 2. a better price than I can get elsewhere. Not as easy since they
> aren't a discount store. But combining loss leaders and coupons
> should work.
>
> The other big score of the day was a Dyson vacuum in perfectly good
> working condition I found at the Goodwill for....drumroll please....
> $25! Sweet. I tested it there (it had dirt in the canister which I
> dumped and revacuumed up). My daughter was often borrowing mine so my
> plan as to give this one to her :)
Whatever floats your boat I guess. I don't see the savings. I never
purchased a vacuum in my life. I use a bag-less Bissell and have two
spare Fantoms in the basement. People throw out vacuums all the time
that only need a belt or cleaning. My brother often makes the
statement, "If you don't go to the store, you ain't spending money." I
receive coupons and sale notices all the time. Can I do without? Yes.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a holiday from auto buying?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:21 am
From: Seerialmom
On Dec 6, 5:43 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:25:13 -0800 (PST), Seerialmom
>
> <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 6, 11:41 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
> >> new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck. (By the
> >> way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
> >> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
> >> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to see
> >> if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>
> >> ted
>
> >So you're basically saying all the other car companies should "suffer"
> >for the mismanagement of the 3 US car manufacturers??? WTH? And most
> >of us already do what you suggested so it's really a "moot" point.
>
> O.K. Restrict purchases to Honda, Toyota, Saturn, all made in the USA.
> Good products. (I'm not sure if Nissan is made in the states)
>
> ted
Saturn is a "GM" product. Why it's good I have no idea. Why doesn't
GM do the same for it's other products?
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 8:34 am
From: terry
On Dec 6, 10:43 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:25:13 -0800 (PST), Seerialmom
>
> <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 6, 11:41 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
> >> new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck. (By the
> >> way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
> >> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
> >> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to see
> >> if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>
> >> ted
>
> >So you're basically saying all the other car companies should "suffer"
> >for the mismanagement of the 3 US car manufacturers??? WTH? And most
> >of us already do what you suggested so it's really a "moot" point.
>
> O.K. Restrict purchases to Honda, Toyota, Saturn, all made in the USA.
> Good products. (I'm not sure if Nissan is made in the states)
>
> ted
Yes our current Nissan (2002 model, about 50,000 miles) was
manufactured stateside. Also our now rotting 1995 Nissan which we are
about to throw away.
Neither are quite as good as our previuos bog standard, fourth hand
when we bought it, very basic 1991 Nissan, which manufactured in Japan
was a better ,simpler, vehicle. It went to nearly 200,000 miles before
rusting in this corrosive Canadian coastal climate where few regularly
used vehicle last more than five to eight years without serious
corrosion problems.
With undercoating hoping to keep the 2002 another few years, to maybe
2012 or beyond?
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 8:56 am
From: hal@nospam.com
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:09:48 -0800 (PST), Anonymous Infidel - the
anti-political talking head <messiah2999@yahoo.com> wrote:
>is dead...Killed by Democrats who bashed our economy into submission
idiot. Regulation is the responsibility of The Executive. It's the
Republicans who pushed for deregulation, and it's deregulation that
gave us this crisis. This is a Bush depression.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:01 am
From: Dave Garland
Seerialmom wrote:
> Saturn is a "GM" product. Why it's good I have no idea. Why doesn't
> GM do the same for it's other products?
Near as I can tell, Saturn isn't that different from GM's other cars,
it's just got a different marketing scheme (fixed prices, friendly
dealers), that some people really liked. But apparently the novelty
has worn off, and it may get reorganized into something else in the
coming Great Implosion.
Dave
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:00 am
From: "(David P.)"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> hall...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > altho we're about to be flooded with 4 grand cars
> > from india, and 8 grand cars from china
>
> Not a chance on that first, you watch.
http://auto.indiamart.com/cars/indica/index.html#xeta
http://auto.indiamart.com/cars/hm-pushpak/
.
.
--
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:13 am
From: George
hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> big 3 saw customers wanted SUVs so they built them, gasoline cost
> skyrocketed, fiancials tanked SUV sales dried up. big 3 now on edge of
> bankruptcy.
Who is this "big 3"? by all accounts they should properly be referred to
as the "little 3" since they produce < 30% of the vehicles sold in the
US. Rick Wagoner notably seems to be the biggest problem. Ford said they
aren't actually in trouble. It would seem his departure would be best
for the the long term emergence of GM from bankruptcy. Chrysler is
another story since they are owned by private investors.
>
> congress should pass a 5 grand tax break for every new american built
> vehicle sold in the next 6 months.
>
Why? thats just like giving a drink to a drunk. The only thing that
might work is to use the bankruptcy laws that were designed exactly for
these scenarios. Given the complexity of their organizations they could
ask for special rules.
> this would help get the economy moving again
>
> although were about to be flooded with 4 grand cars from india, and 8
> grand cars from china
>
> big 3 will disappear once that happens just like US steel industry
> largely closed years ago.
>
The "old" US steel industry closed because they were in the same
situation as GM. They had extremely bad management and union contracts
that had extensive work rules and giveaways. There are now vibrant US
steel manufacturers such as Nucor and Worthington. Folks there
definitely don't work for walmart wages but they also don't get double
pay for a day if asked to do another job or 3 months pay if they file a
grievance that someone else pushed the button they were supposed to
push.
> US standard of living must drop a lot for our workers to compete
==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:05 am
From: "Daniel T."
"Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> >
> > What case are you referring to? The only case I see on the Surpreme
> > Court's docket involving Obama was dismissed by Justice Souter on 11/3.
>
> Different case:
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-birth-cer.html
OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born in
the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
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