Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 9 topics

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Small washing machines
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/34c4cdf5cdc020c2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 12:39 pm
From: BigDog1

On Dec 1, 9:19 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I lived abroad, the washing machines were quite small and could
> have fit in the bathroom of a U.S. home. As I recall, the way to hook
> them up was simply to insert a hose pipe and turn the water on.
>
> Amazingly, they cleaned satisfactorily.
>
> Does anyone know what I mean. If so, does such a product exist in the
> U.S.?

Yep. We lived in Germany for ten years in the 70s and 80s. Had one
of them, a front loading Seimans, in the kitchen of our apartment.
Very efficient, and it did a very good job on the clothes. The only
problem was that we had to do a load of laundry every couple of days
because it's small capacity. Still cheaper and more convenient
(convenience has value) than spending a day at the laundromat every
week.

Don't know if they're available in the States. Since we returned
we've always had space for full size appliances. There are small,
stackable washers and dryers made for apartment and condo dwellers.
My son had them installed in a hall closet of his apartment when he
was a bachelor. Probably not a good option for a family, but they did
the job for him.

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TOPIC: Cindy Hamilton
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d768f2a2bc413b74?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:24 pm
From: "sr"

Congressional Budget Office:
If you earn $44,000 before taxes and buy your own insurance you'll pay a
$5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a
total of $7,300 a year, that's 17% of your income!

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:138c6$4b1d6505$ccb58426$14320@ispn.net...
> Medicare cut, Homecare cut, People after age of 50 ration care.
> I'll have more for you -
> I have to read the UK papers to see what is going on here since
> the main steam media is in bed with this ADM, so we aren't getting
> the News
> I'll have more for you to think about
>
>

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:25 pm
From: "sr"

If your family is fortunate enough to make $102,100 a year, Pelosi-Care will
hit you with a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a
$20,300 total, or 20% of what you earn!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:25 pm
From: "sr"

If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you file
your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with thousands of
dollars in fines.

Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants are
exempt from this law.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 12:58 am
From: "Dave C."

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:53 -0500
"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:

> If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you
> file your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with
> thousands of dollars in fines.
>
> Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants
> are exempt from this law.

While that's technically true, the plan is blanket amnesty after the
health care reform is passed. In other words, there will be no such
thing as an illegal immigrant soon. -Dave

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 4:27 pm
From: "sr"

"Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
news:20091207165834.032f9ca0.noway@nohow.never...
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:53 -0500
> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:
>
>> If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you
>> file your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with
>> thousands of dollars in fines.
>>
>> Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants
>> are exempt from this law.
>
> While that's technically true, the plan is blanket amnesty after the
> health care reform is passed. In other words, there will be no such
> thing as an illegal immigrant soon. -Dave
No, they will make them all legal
======
LarsLarsonShow

my day today started with my dentist, telling me how canadian socialist
medicine let his dad die! obama care needs to fail before it kills

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:37 pm
From: "sr"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
like I said, rationing for people over 50. out of MD

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Indoor diy barbeques
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:49 pm
From: geoff

In message
<7ff86190-2f8b-4fb2-a05c-50e65e58259e@n31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
terry <tsanford@nf.sympatico.ca> writes
>On Dec 6, 9:24 am, Omelet <ompome...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <hfdmol$6d...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "sam coleridge" <invalidto...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>> > base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>> > steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> > They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>> > indoor barbi.
>>
>> > They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>> > them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> > Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>> > could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>> Just be careful! Attempts at indoor BBQ tend to produce Carbon Monoxide
>> gas.
>>
>> It's a good way to commit suicide.
>> --
>> Peace! Om
>>
>> "Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put
>>their foot down."
>> --Steve Rothstein
>>
>> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
>> recfoodreci...@yahoogroups.com
>> Subscribe: recfoodrecipes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
>
>Some years ago; in order to try and stay warm an elderly couple
>operated their bar-b-q inside their fairly well sealed up North
>American house during a power failure. It used up all the oxygen and
>they were found dead.

How many more does that leave ?

--
geoff

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TOPIC: The healthcare bill is so bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:27 pm
From: "sr"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:1ac11$4b1b5485$ccb58410$12294@ispn.net...
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:4b1806ab$0$1598$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>h wrote:
>>
>>> Paranoid much? The actual proposals read pretty much like the MA current
>>> laws, and under those (I don't live in MA) I would NOT have to buy
>>> insurance. Even those who fail to buy it and can "afford it" (according
>>> to the state) only pay a tax of less than $800 year. Jail time, are you
>>> insane?
>>
>> He believes Faux News, as close to insane as you can get!
> Not just Fox, local papers are giving us the facts

what is to come in Health Care

By Alison Young, USA TODAY
When the swine flu vaccine was most scarce, health officials gave thousands
of doses to corporate clinics at Walt Disney World, Toyota, defense
contractors, oil companies and cruise lines, according to a USA TODAY review
of vaccine distribution data from three states.
USA TODAY examined how state health departments distributed H1N1 vaccine
after public outcry last month over Wall Street firms such as Goldman Sachs
receiving doses while doctors and hospitals encountered shortages. The data
show other companies got the vaccine in October and early November. In some
cases, early doses went to people not deemed most at risk by the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention.

"Now we have evidence of what my suspicions were," said U.S. Rep. Frank
Pallone, D-N.J., chair of a House health subcommittee. "I'm afraid when you
have these corporate initiatives, it's not primarily needs-based."

Pallone said he would send the CDC a letter Tuesday asking it to revise
guidelines to states on the use of corporate health clinics.

Each state health department must decide how to provide the vaccine to
people most at risk, and employers are a legitimate venue, said Anne
Schuchat, the CDC's immunization director. CDC's priority groups include
pregnant women, people with chronic health conditions, health care workers
and people ages 6 months to 24 years. "This is much less about what you do
for a living and much more about how do you get the vaccine in the path of
those target populations," she said.

The Toyota Family Health Center in San Antonio, which got 2,120 doses,
initially focused on the CDC's priority groups, but since Nov. 16 has
offered the vaccine to any employee, contractor or family member, spokesman
Craig Mullenbach said.

SWINE FLU CENTRAL: News, video, interactive map of CDC data
YOUR GUIDE: Getting through the season unscathed
Q&A: Where can you get vaccine shots?

Norwegian Cruise Line in Miami used its 300 doses "to vaccinate critical
on-board staff on our ships," spokeswoman AnneMarie Mathews said. She said
recipients included medical staff, youth counselors and "key officers
responsible for the safe operation of the vessel" but did not address how
they fit into CDC's priority groups.

Of the 2.42 million doses in Texas and 2 million in Florida distributed
through mid-November, fewer than 1% went to employers, according to USA
TODAY's analysis of data obtained under state open-records acts. Thousands
of registered providers - doctors, hospitals, schools, pharmacies - in Texas
alone got no doses in that period.

Among companies that requested and received early doses and say they
administered them to high-risk people:

. Florida: Walt Disney World got 2,200 doses for college-age theme park
workers and members of its 100-person medical team. Universal Orlando Resort
got 100 doses.

. Texas: Defense contractors Bell Helicopter got 100 doses and Lockheed
Martin Aeronautics, 80. Chevron got 190; ExxonMobil, 160; Dow Chemical, 170;
ConocoPhillips, 110.

. Georgia: No doses went to companies. Ravae Graham of the state health
department said people in the priority groups "are typically only a small
fraction of workers in the corporate sector."

California, New York and New York City are still deciding whether to release
data to USA TODAY.

Corporate clout played no role, health officials said. "We're not playing
favorites with Disney," said Dain Weister of the Orange County (Fla.) Health
Department.

Carrie Williams of the Texas health department said, "We've been doing the
very best we can to fairly distribute the vaccine to a wide variety of
providers."

Complicating distribution decisions: Not all forms of vaccine are
appropriate for all people. Nasal spray can be used only by healthy people
and health care workers, and shots come in different doses.

"The question we have to ask on these corporate ones is: Did at-risk people
receive the doses? Or was corporate America buying their way out of an
illness?" asked Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., who chairs a House oversight
subcommittee. "You've almost got to look at them on a case-by-case basis."

Melanie Sloan, executive director of the watchdog group Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said there's no assurance that
companies used the doses properly: "Everything is on the honor system," she
said.

Contributing: Paul Overberg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare" means what it says
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:45 pm
From: Les Cargill

Day Brown wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
>>> As for the depression, back then, kids were not raised on sugar
>>> cereals, junk food, and soda, so their academic performance was
>>> better and they grew to be more rational adults.
>>
>> Not always. Diet had less to do with it than the realities of
>> what "labor" meant. People wore ties, because it meant
>> status, and distance from the operation of dangerous
>> industrial machinery.
> As may be. But diet is a grossly underestimated factor. Neurological
> data is abundant to show how trace minerals and micronutrients in
> "organic" soils are absorbed by the plants that then empower some of the
> 150+ neurotransmitters identified so far in the laying down of new
> neural pathways during learning. Which with kids is critical at certain
> times during development. You dont get maximal mental development
> raising kids on sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.
>
> American wheat became the global quality standard in the 19th century.
> Jared Diamond, "Collapse" reports that when they were able to test it in
> the 1950's, hard red winter wheat had 26% protein. A few years ago, the
> bag at the feed mill said it had 19%. This year and last, it dont even
> say anymore.
>

Grains are evolving towards being pure stocks of calories because
starchy corn and such is easier to engineer. If a market
evolevs for higher protein wheat ( and I wouldn't be at all surprised
to see that), you'll see it.

> Course, nobody wants to think of how their parents raised them, much
> less what they've been doing to their own kids. But one clue: The
> national posted autism rate is 1:155. The rate for Amish kids who never
> see sugar cereals: 1:15,000.
>

Interesting you'd say "Amish" ( and good, because they make a great
natural experiment ) because that gene pool isn't all that deep. Autism
is swinging towards being a "hardware" problem these days, and that
favors genetics above environment.

>>
>> Kids aren't stupid. They correctly surmise that learning
>> calculus may or may not make them any money in the
>> long haul. Although knowing calculus probably
>> knocks your chances of being unemployed back down to
>> sub-4% ( replacement/churn levels ).
>>
>>> The system we have now could be made to work if the electorate was
>>> rational, but you know how many demagogues they support, and mite yet
>>> figure that will be disastrous.
>>>
>>> Which is what Machiavelli says.
>>
>> I'd read of Cicero first....
> Good advice, but things didnt work out well for him either.

Not much :)

--
Les Cargill

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 11:03 pm
From: "Jim Jones"

Day Brown wrote:
> Jim Jones wrote:
>> Day Brown wrote:
>>> Les Cargill wrote:
>>>>> As for the depression, back then, kids were not raised on sugar
>>>>> cereals, junk food, and soda, so their academic performance was
>>>>> better and they grew to be more rational adults.
>>>> Not always. Diet had less to do with it than the realities of
>>>> what "labor" meant. People wore ties, because it meant
>>>> status, and distance from the operation of dangerous
>>>> industrial machinery.
>>> As may be. But diet is a grossly underestimated factor.
>>
>> Yes, but you cannot explain why Japanese society did so badly
>> in the 30s even tho their diet clearly can not have been the problem.
> Just cause diet is now an underestimated factor logically does not
> prove, nor claim that there are other factors.

Yes, but you have just claimed that diet is a problem, you have not established that at all.

>> Neurological
>>> data is abundant to show how trace minerals and micronutrients in
>>> "organic" soils are absorbed by the plants that then empower some of
>>> the 150+ neurotransmitters identified so far in the laying down of
>>> new neural pathways during learning. Which with kids is critical at
>>> certain times during development. You dont get maximal mental
>>> development raising kids on sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.
>>
>> That last claim can not be substantiated.
> FWIW: archeology looked at village bone middens and the stomach
> contents of bog bodies. They found over 100 wild plants and animals
> in the diet of Native European ancestors.

And the diet of those before sugar cereals, junk food, and soda was nothing like that.

So, maybe it dont apply to
> you, but does to Ashkenazic Jews and most others.

You have not established that either.

> Do you really need proof that this would provide a wide variety of
> trace minerals and micronutrients from organic soils in the food?

Yes, for the time between then and when we did see sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.

Or
> that conversely, some regions dont have enuf Iodine, so goiter was a
> problem.

Yes, that sort of thing has been established, but that is nothing like
what we saw when we did have sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.

Now we deliberately ensure that there are no dietary shortages of iodine etc.

Is there some reason to think Iodine is the only essential
> trace mineral

Obviously not.

or that all the pathologies are only physical and not
> mental?

We have not seen anything like that with mental effects.

>>> American wheat became the global quality standard in the 19th
>>> century.
>> Like hell it did.
> It made transnationals out of General Mills, Kellogg, and Pillsbury.

But not with GM, Ford, IBM etc etc etc.

>>> Jared Diamond, "Collapse" reports that when they were able to test
>>> it in the 1950's, hard red winter wheat had 26% protein. A few years
>>> ago, the bag at the feed mill said it had 19%. This year and last,
>>> it dont even say anymore.
>>
>> Plenty of other wheat growing countries still do.
> Do what? say?

Yep.

Given my druthers, I'd rather Canadian wheat which has
> been grown ever further north with Global Warming, and therefore on
> land that has not been over exploited by agribusiness.

There is not a shred of evidence that the land it is grown on has any mental effect on humans that eat it.

Particularly now that we deliberately iodise etc.

>>> Course, nobody wants to think of how their parents raised them, much
>>> less what they've been doing to their own kids. But one clue: The
>>> national posted autism rate is 1:155. The rate for Amish kids who
>>> never see sugar cereals: 1:15,000.
>>
>> And you have no idea whether that is just due to them
>> not using modern medicine and so not diagnosing autism.
> In fact, I have a very good idea. I got polio for my 7th birthday in
> 1946, and spent years in special schools and hospitals with all kindsa
> freaks. The body language of autism is obvious when you learn what it
> is.

Doesnt explain why it took so long to diagnose in the general population.

But they werent there, and didnt show up until the early 1960's,
> and then almost all were Jewish kids.

That is nothing like reality.

There are DNA markers, which
> however, are only triggered by certain conditions.

Yes.

In this case, the
> Jews had both the markers, and the money to buy upscale highly
> processed foods,

So did hordes of others at that time.

and in the 60s, well aware of the insularism that
> empowered the Nazi propaganda, quit shopping at the delis.

> I dont maintain diet is the only cause.

You have not established that it is a cause at all.

Contagions that happen at
> critical times of development have also been implicated. But the small
> Amish schools dont have nearly the rate because there arent enuf kids
> to provide new victims before the pathogen mutates.

Does not explain why other small non amish schools do not get that effect.

With only 30 kids
> in a class, the bug runs out of new targets, and rather more quickly
> with kids who have healthy robust immune systems.

Does not explain why other small non amish schools do not get that effect.

Which are enhanced
> by proper diets.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lifting a person
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f903bdaac4c54dc2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 7:43 pm
From: aesthete8

On Dec 5, 6:54 pm, Dan Birchall <nob...@imaginary-
host.danbirchall.com> wrote:
> art...@gmail.com (aesthete8) wrote:
> > On tv, there is an advertisement for these straps that you put under
> > whatever you want to lift and--voila!--2 persons can lift the heaviest
> > thing.
>
> > Could that be adapted to transporting a person?
>
> You don't need the straps for two people to carry a person. If you
> take a First Aid course, or the more advanced First Responder course,
> or search Google, you can learn about two-person carries.
>
> --
> "If you like to stand on your head and spit pickles in the snow, on the
> Internet there are at least three other people just like you."
> - Langston James Goree VI

Is this what you mean?:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5413_carry-injured-person.html

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TOPIC: No gift giving this Christmas...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7570f95930f62ce6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 9:11 pm
From: "h"

"Gregory" <gregory@greg.invalid> wrote in message
news:g13pg5l0unadbahncasdmrfop4sd14h5c0@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:59:45 -0500, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Close, but it's bigger than that. Religion is the mass delusion, not just
>>some random "holiday". Dump it all, improve the IQ of the planet!
>
> Right... and the people who believe that swirling gasses came from
> nowhere and exploded to form the universe represent the intelligent
> people? "Science" is just a different religion that also requires
> believing in something that you cannot see.
>
Huh? Science is ONLY what you can see. PLONK!

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ec8a84532fb214f5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b583ce9de536e8d6?hl=en
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Tuesday, December 8, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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