Saturday, December 5, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Gore can't take the HEAT - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
* ../▇\.... /▇\o 2009 Cheap wholesale Nike shox at website: www.fjrjtrade.com <
Paypal Payment>+<Free Shipping> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f56817456dd098e4?hl=en
* How "Damage Points" affect your FICO credit score - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4ced51e4825bdee0?hl=en
* Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the tale -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
* Indoor diy barbeques - 15 messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
* The healthcare bill is so bad - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
* Frugal living in Russia as management goes homeless - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d865ce2beadf6228?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gore can't take the HEAT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:13 pm
From: "sr"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
> foxnews
>
> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen

> Michigan sees record snow...
DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...

Al Gore could not be reached for comment

>


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:23 am
From: RickMerrill


sr wrote:
> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Zee wrote:
>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>> foxnews
>>>>
>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>> He's human after all.
>>
>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>
>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>
>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>
>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>
>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
>> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
>> spike.
>>
>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
>> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
>> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>
>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of natural
>> climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive (high
>> climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be catastrophic.
>>
>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
>> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse than
>> Al Gore has said.
>>
>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Cretaceous Period
> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
> positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America and
> Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial sea,
> Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
> Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral Rocky
> Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise, submerging about
> 30% of the Earth's present land surface.
> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>
> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
> oceans covered the west coast?
> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in the
> rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise. And,

You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has risen?!

> it wasn't man's
> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
> global warming nor oceans rising, it
> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say anything
> you wish, that is one reason
> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
> problem for the Left, lately.
>
>


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 10:07 am
From: "sr"


That's the point Mother Nature, not man
"RickMerrill" <RM@spamless.com> wrote in message
news:hfe1e6$psp$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> sr wrote:
>> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> Zee wrote:
>>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>>> foxnews
>>>>>
>>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>>> He's human after all.
>>>
>>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>>
>>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>>
>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>>
>>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>>
>>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
>>> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
>>> spike.
>>>
>>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
>>> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
>>> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>>
>>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
>>> natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive
>>> (high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be
>>> catastrophic.
>>>
>>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
>>> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse
>>> than Al Gore has said.
>>>
>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Cretaceous Period
>> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
>> positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America
>> and Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial
>> sea, Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
>> Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral
>> Rocky Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise,
>> submerging about 30% of the Earth's present land surface.
>> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>>
>> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
>> oceans covered the west coast?
>> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in
>> the rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
>> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise.
>> And,
>
> You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has risen?!
>
>
>
>> it wasn't man's
>> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
>> global warming nor oceans rising, it
>> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say
>> anything you wish, that is one reason
>> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
>> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
>> problem for the Left, lately.
>>


==============================================================================
TOPIC: ../▇\.... /▇\o 2009 Cheap wholesale Nike shox at website: www.fjrjtrade.
com <Paypal Payment>+<Free Shipping>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f56817456dd098e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:20 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: How "Damage Points" affect your FICO credit score
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4ced51e4825bdee0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 2:16 am
From: enough


Thats why FICO and others klike them should be regulated to death,
not be allowed to play these moronic games, ans be hjeld CRIMINALY
liable for any screwups on their part. Also, it would help if
braindead robots in industry would stop buying into the FICO racket


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:28 am
From: krw


On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 02:16:04 -0800 (PST), enough
<blinkingblythe02@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thats why FICO and others klike them should be regulated to death,
>not be allowed to play these moronic games, ans be hjeld CRIMINALY
>liable for any screwups on their part. Also, it would help if
>braindead robots in industry would stop buying into the FICO racket

Of course, it would also help if you paid your bills.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the
tale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:08 am
From: The Very Model of Sweetness and Light


On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:09:14 -0500, "I M @ good guy" <I_m@good.guy> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:15:31 -0500, The Very Model of Sweetness and Light <ye_olde_muleskinner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"there was nothing exposed"
>>
>>http://openleft.com/diary/16237/a-deeper-look-at-global-warming-denialist-attacks
>
>
> Open Left? Does that mean ...

That means you can't dispute what the link says,
so you're descending into ad hominem fallacy.

> Anybody who calls an AGW skeptic a denier

"The reasons for using the term "skeptics" to identify some of those
who question climate science and "deniers" for others":

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

>... an arrogant fool, there is no truth...

You believe that human activities can't affect global climate,
but you have no evidence for your belief.

>if laws are broken.

Is it legal to steal emails, in your 'world'?

"Why Climate Denialists are Blind to Facts and Reason: The Role of Ideology"

http://www.celsias.com/article/why-climate-denialists-are-blind-facts-and-reason/

See also:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Indoor diy barbeques
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:21 am
From: "sam coleridge"


In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
steel rack to sit on the top.

They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
indoor barbi.

They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
them for sale in the u.k.?

Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:29 am
From: Rod


sam coleridge wrote:
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
>
>
One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.

--
Rod


== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:40 am
From: "Stewart"


If you want to use your cooker fan extractor hood then buy a "Piramid"
(maybe Pyramid) barbeque and place it overthe hob. We have had one for
years and they are superb. Quite expensive but have long guarantee.


"sam coleridge" <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
> stainless steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
>
>


== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:01 am
From: brooklyn1


"sam coleridge" wrote:
>
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.
>
>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.
>
>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?
>
>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors?
>
>
Oh yes, make it an obligatory celebratory occasion by order of the
Queen that every UKer light their indoor charcoal burner at midnight
of New Years Eve and crawl into bed... get rid of all yoose stench
breathed rotted teeth brit bastards in one fell swoop! <G>
Ahahahahahahaha. . . .


== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:16 am
From: "Ophelia"

"brooklyn1" <gravesend10@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:t9rkh598emf4fdte67hhpc9eq2bq6qejlt@4ax.com...
> "sam coleridge" wrote:
>>
>>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
>>stainless
>>steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>>indoor barbi.
>>
>>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>>them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>>could use indoors?
>>
>>
> Oh yes, make it an obligatory celebratory occasion by order of the
> Queen that every UKer light their indoor charcoal burner at midnight
> of New Years Eve and crawl into bed... get rid of all yoose stench
> breathed rotted teeth brit bastards in one fell swoop! <G>
> Ahahahahahahaha. . . .

Awwwwwwwww come on now SHELDUMB! You know you would miss me:))


== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:43 am
From: "Lou"

"sam coleridge" <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
If by barbeque you mean something that burns charcoal, there's a couple of
things to beware of. First, charcoal fires produce carbon monoxide, which
can be deadly. Second, a charcoal fire consumes oxygen, and in an enclosed
room the oxygen can be depleted below the concentration necessary to sustain
human life. In the US, about 25 people are killed each year from burning
charcoal indoors. See for instance
http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733793495 or
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/452.html


== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:04 am
From: garden-variety dick


On Dec 5, 8:21 am, "sam coleridge" <invalidto...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home.  I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

Most days are OK to use charcoal outside. I do it all the time here
in south western Ontario Canada. Every month of the year. You don't
need to be inside. Except for to eat.


== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:32 am
From: geoff


In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
<invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.
>
>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.
>
>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?
>
>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
>
>
Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated by
a BBQ ?


--
geoff


== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:34 am
From: geoff


In message <hfdus0$6sd$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Lou
<lpogoda@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"sam coleridge" <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>news:hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
>stainless
>> steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>> indoor barbi.
>>
>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>> them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>If by barbeque you mean something that burns charcoal, there's a couple of
>things to beware of. First, charcoal fires produce carbon monoxide, which
>can be deadly. Second, a charcoal fire consumes oxygen, and in an enclosed
>room the oxygen can be depleted below the concentration necessary to sustain
>human life. In the US, about 25 people are killed each year from burning
>charcoal indoors.

That's the most positive reason for indoor BBQs I've come across yet

--
geoff


== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 9:27 am
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)


In article <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
sam coleridge <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote:
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.

>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.

>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?

>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

Sounds similar to a hibachi; to avoid the carbon monoxide issue, there
are electric versions for tabletom use:

http://www.bbq.com/

http://www.grillpower.com/article3.html

http://www.lumaoutdoorentertaining.com/barbecues/hibachi.aspx

Lots more are just a search away...


Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.


== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:01 am
From: "The Medway Handyman"


geoff wrote:
> In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
> <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches
>> square, the base being made from what i think was some kind of clay
>> and had a stainless steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have
>> an indoor barbi.
>>
>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has
>> seen them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that
>> one could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>>
>>
> Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated
> by a BBQ ?

Would that be why we use them outside Geoff?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:40 am
From: Mark Thorson


Gary Heston wrote:
>
> In article <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> sam coleridge <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> >base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> >steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> Sounds similar to a hibachi; to avoid the carbon monoxide issue, there
> are electric versions for tabletom use:

Sounds to me like the little grills used for
Korean bulgogi, though he did say square,
and hibachis are usually square while the
Korean bulgogi grill is usually round.
They are usually used indoors, under a hood.


== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:10 pm
From: Tony Sivori


[follow up set to misc.consumers.frugal-living]
Rod wrote:
> One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
> charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.

Consider that lethal exposure is 800 Parts Per Million for two hours,
maximum permissible is 30 PPM, and the recommended level is zero. I'd say
it is more than somewhat poisonous.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.


== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:14 pm
From: geoff


In message <16ySm.12231$Ym4.4993@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The Medway
Handyman <davidlang@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>geoff wrote:
>> In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
>> <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches
>>> square, the base being made from what i think was some kind of clay
>>> and had a stainless steel rack to sit on the top.
>>>
>>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have
>>> an indoor barbi.
>>>
>>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has
>>> seen them for sale in the u.k.?
>>>
>>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that
>>> one could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated
>> by a BBQ ?
>
>Would that be why we use them outside Geoff?
>
>
Err yes - did you miss the point ?

--
geoff


== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:24 pm
From: Rod


Tony Sivori wrote:
> [follow up set to misc.consumers.frugal-living]
> Rod wrote:
>> One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
>> charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.
>
> Consider that lethal exposure is 800 Parts Per Million for two hours,
> maximum permissible is 30 PPM, and the recommended level is zero. I'd say
> it is more than somewhat poisonous.
>
OK. So the affinity of carbon monoxide for haemoglobin is around 700
times that of oxygen and instead of forming a loose 'association' it
forms a stable compound, carboxyhaemoglobin.

(Or that is how I remember it.)

Agreed. Horribly poisonous.

--
Rod

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The healthcare bill is so bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:30 am
From: George


Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Dec 4, 12:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dave C. wrote
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Dave C. wrote
>>>>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
>>>>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
>>>>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.
>>>>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.
>>>> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.
>>>>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
>>>>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
>>>>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.
>>>> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
>>>> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
>>>> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.
>>> That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave
>> Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the insurance system and
>> the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single payer system.
>
> The wife of a co-worker is a doctor. He reports that she says that
> insurance company
> paperwork is ten times more onerous than the Medicare forms. If we
> had single-payer,
> privately delivered health care, doctors' offices could reduce their
> staffing because they
> wouldn't need so many paper pushers.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Trusted family member manages the backend of a large local practice. She
says the absolute biggest hassle and most complicated by far are the
government programs.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:11 am
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply


George wrote:
>
> Trusted family member manages the backend of a large local practice. She
> says the absolute biggest hassle and most complicated by far are the
> government programs.

I sit next to the biller at the doctor's office I work for, and our
opinion is that they are both awful, but for different reasons.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living in Russia as management goes homeless
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d865ce2beadf6228?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 10:42 am
From: phil scott


But lately, it has seemed to some residents to be ill fated. An
Aeroflot plane from Moscow crashed on the outskirts of Perm in 2008 as
it was landing, killing 88 people. In October, a video of an out-of-
control bus ramming into numerous cars in Perm circulated widely on
the Internet.

Last month, the Perm police arrested three homeless men and charged
them with killing another man, eating part of him and trying to sell
the remainder to a restaurant


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