Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics

Monday, June 7, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ALB40 max 45mm wide, adjustable mens leather braceletalb40 of wholesale
beads
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/002e505f9b6a0b31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 6 2010 11:56 pm
From: 泳梨余

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bracelet.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It wont stay shut by itself
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b4b28ebf5a595a15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:22 am
From: justme@somewhere.com

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:47:50 -0400, "EXT" <noemail@reply.in.this.group>
wrote:

>
>"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:hugcjh$ajm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> john hamilton wrote:
>>> When working on my car, I bring it right up close to the house and
>>> lay my tools out on the floor behind the front door. Since you never
>>> know when it will rain, it works out very handy since then all I have
>>> to do is close the door; and don't have to be picking up all the
>>> tools.
>>> Now if its not warm the family doesn't like the cold air coming into
>>> the house and they want the front door shut, which is fair enough.
>>> Since the door just swings open I have to keep getting the keys out
>>> of my pocket to open the door.
>>>
>>> I would like the door to stay shut on its own accord, yet just open
>>> with a push without having to use the keys. There is no room on the
>>> door jamb to screw one of those helical spring self closers. And
>>> anyway in general use we dont want the door to close by itself. Which
>>> also rules out one of those hydraulic self closers which could fit on
>>> at the top of the door.
>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In north
>>> London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it will just not
>>> hold. Also tried cutting a thin wedge of cork glued to an upright
>>> jamb which makes the door a tight fit when closed. However the door
>>> shrinks in the summer and expands in the winter so that only works
>>> for about half the year.
>>> Grateful for any suggestions, especially something similar to the cork
>>> arrangement which works just fine prividing the weather suits it.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Just about any door latch in the world will fix that.
>>
>>
>
>Why not use a tool box next to the car, they close up quick too.

Get one of those toolboxes made for pickup truck beds and keep it near
the door, put tools in it, close the lid when you finish working on
car for the day. Or build something similar to a dog house with lift
up lid. Makes more sense than opening the house door over and over
and letting all the heating or cooling escape.

Better yet, build a garage to work on the car..... Of course that
costs more.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:26 am
From: "Josepi"

I use that method for my master bedroom. Once she complies I let her out for
breakfast.

LOL
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hui1ma$ql7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
It is possible to get electrically operated magnetic catches. You could
go the whole hog and make it remote control and keep remote in pocket.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:35 am
From: "Bob F"

Duncan Wood wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:24:38 +0100, Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:13:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher ??o??:
>>
>>> Jeff The Drunk wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:06:09 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hugc8b$uec$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In
>>>>>> north London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it
>>>>>> will just not hold. Also
>>>>> The magnet out of a hard drive is flat and very strong.
>>>>
>>>> Really? What kind of hard drive has a big flat magnet inside? That
>>>> defies all logic on the principals of how a hard drive works.
>>>> themotor
>>
>> So hard drives have a motor that has a big flat strong magnet?
>> Wouldn't that mess up the data being written to the platers?
>>
>
> No.

It is the head moving mechanism that uses the magnets, not the motor.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:38 am
From: "Bob F"

terry wrote:
> Got another couple of hard drives downstairs to be scrapped for small
> parts, especially the magnets.
>
> Development of stronger magnets has certainly progressed during the
> last 50 to 60 years! The magnets used for WWII magnetrons were huge.
> Nowadays each microwave oven normally contains two such annular
> (doughnut shape) magnets, which together will fit into a mail
> envelope!

I use hard drive magnets to locate the studs in wall. The magnets will easily
stick to the nails in the wallboard. Just find the nail and stick the magnet
there to mark the spot.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:52 am
From: Whiskers

["Followup-To:" header set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk.]
On 2010-06-06, Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:13:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher ǝʇoɹʍ:
>> Jeff The Drunk wrote:
>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:06:09 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> "john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:hugc8b$uec$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In north
>>>>> London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it will just not
>>>>> hold. [...]

To the OP: why not install a simple latch on the door? (The sort meant
for house doors, of course!).

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are currently your best saving tips ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a23335cb8985c73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:40 am
From: "Rod Speed"

HerHusband wrote
> Hi Rod,

>>> Avoid taking loans for anything. If you don't have
>>> the money, wait and save until you can afford it.
>
>> I dont agree with that. There are situations where a loan does make
>> sense, most obviously to buy a reliable car that is essential for a
>> particular job etc.

>> The loan allows you to start earning real money more quickly.

> If you are starting with nothing, then yes, a loan might
> be the only way to acquire the essentials you need for
> employment (transportation, clothing, tools, or whatever).

And even if you have more than nothing, it can make sense
to borrow money rather than save for the difference too.

> But I would think most folks over 20 years old or
> so would already have many of the basic items.

Yes, but may not necessarily have a reliable car that a particular job needs.

Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.

Even a loan for a house can make sense too if that forces
you to save rather than pissing the rent against the wall for
years while you save enough to buy a house, particularly
if you arent capable of building the house. And even when
you are capable of building the house, it can make sense
to borrow rather than save for the land and materials too.

> That said, we have never paid more than $3000 for a car, and
> have never needed a loan. We bought our cars from savings.

Yes, but it can make sense to borrow to get the car that makes
a particular job possible, rather than save for that car first, just
because you start earning the decent money earlier.

> If we only had $1000, we didn't buy a vehicle that cost more than $1000.

Yes, but those cars may not be reliable enough or viable for particular jobs.

> Of course, we've always been willing to fix problems ourselves,
> scrounging salvage yards if needed to get the car running.

Yes, I did the same thing myself but not everyone can do that.

> Obviously, not everyone is willing or able to do that, but I've been driving the
> same car (a 1976 Rabbit) for over 20 years now and it still runs and drives great.

I bought my Golf new and used it as the only car for 35+ years with no real
maintenance required at all except for an alternator relay and a distributor rotor.

And then was stupid enough to not fix a known windscreen leak that
eventually rusted the floor out. If it wasnt for that I would still be using it.

>> Yes, but if the loan is used to buy the car that produces significant
>> income, a cheap reliable car can be paid for quickly and you dont
>> end up paying much for the finance if you finance it properly.

> I didn't mean to imply there were "never" situations a loan might be needed,

That is what you originally said.

> just to "avoid" them whenever possible. We've had a few loans
> over the years, starting small to build a good credit rating, and
> the last was the loan for our property about 20+ years ago.

Yeah, it generally doesnt make sense to save for the land.

I was fortunate enough to get mine from the govt with a no deposit
loan from the govt at a derisory interest rate, so I never did bother
to pay it off, just made the payments as required, and made a lot
more than the interest I was paying on the stockmarket.

> But we always paid well above the minimum to keep interest
> charges down (we paid off our 15 year loan in about 5 years).

I didnt need to bother because the interest rate was so low.

In fact it made no sense to pay it off faster because I was
making a lot more than that on that money in the stockmarket.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:26 am
From: The Natural Philosopher

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> O
>> Here in Alabamastan, I believe a bank account would be taxed if it
>> earned interest.
>
> Only the interest is taxed, not the principal. That's a normal capital gains
> tax.

No, thats a normal INCOME tax.

> Taxing the principal is *not* normal. Personal property is taxed in
> some states but I've never heard of cash being considered personal property.

Well If it ain't personal property what is it?

Personal property taxes exist on many things: car license fees, council
tax..these are all taxes on personal property, as is inheritance tax.

Means testing individuals who have no income, but large capital assets,
is also an implicit tax on personal property.

Its just ways to transfer capital assets from the individual to the
state. Back door communism.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:18 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
>the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
>doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.

Rod I'm on the fence on student loans

I have student loans but looking back almost think it
best to "pay as you go".

what you say?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 8:45 am
From: keith

On Jun 7, 9:18 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
> >the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
> >doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.
>
> Rod I'm on the fence on student loans
>
> I have student loans but looking back almost think it
> best to "pay as you go".
>
> what you say?

Student loans are the means to higher priced education, which is why
the Demonicrats love them so. Note: Higher price <> better

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:04 am
From: me@privacy.net

keith <keithw86@gmail.com> wrote:

>Student loans are the means to higher priced education, which is why
>the Demonicrats love them so. Note: Higher price <> better

engineering school here.... for me

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another spam source
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0a2c8956e3506738?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 06/06/10 08:13, h wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hufdck$26s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 06/05/10 15:44, NancyR wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hu9tig$l20$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> I've recently gotten spam text messages on my pre-paid T-Mobile
>>>>> account,
>>>>> which cost me a nickel each. Outrageous. I phoned tech
>>>>> support. The first guy was barely able to speak English and
>>>>> hung up on me after 4 minutes. The second guy was OK and set
>>>>> my account up so that I would NOT
>>>>> receive marketing messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a crappy system. You're assumed to WANT to pay for spam
>>>>> unless you
>>>>> call and tell them different.
>>>>>
>>>>> I shouldn't complain, though. It costs me $10/year now and I'll
>>>>> probably
>>>>> never use up my minutes. Still...
>>>>
>>>> What plan do you have that is $10 a year?
>>>
>>> Cheap prepaid. Once you've bought $100 worth of minutes, from
>>> then on they all roll over as long as you buy $10 worth (maybe 30
>>> minutes or so) each year. I've got 800 minutes now, and I don't
>>> make more than 4 calls a month ("Hi, there's traffic, I'll be a
>>> little late."), rarely that. On a per-minute basis it's not
>>> particularly cheap, but on a per-year basis you can't find
>>> anything better.
>> Tracfone is like that, but they also require you to buy airtime.
>> Works out to $6/month, not $10/year. Does your plan not charge for
>> airtime?
>
> That's what you're buying for your $10/year. Another 35 minutes
> added to the total. If your phone takes pictures, it costs 2.5
> minutes to send one -- I wish I'd known that when I bought my phone
> (Samsung T319), which does NOT have USB connection capability.

Doesnt it have bluetooth ? Not as fast as USB but quite viable for pictures.

> <http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/prepaid-plans.aspx?WT.mc_n=PrePdPlnsOvrMain&WT.mc_t=OnsiteAd>

> Connectivity at my house sucks. I have to walk up or down the street
> 50 feet, and then it's fine. Not really all that important since we
> have a land line.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: food-for-gold
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1fba697402bbcdab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 1:43 am
From: ekr3d

Disasters age ((((food-for-gold))))
http://gold-ekramy.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Removing a polish smell
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/412e284f30c2d434?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 3:47 am
From: "jkm1"

Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
one year old Citroen.

There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.

Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:34 am
From: "steve robinson"

jkm1 wrote:

> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently
> purchased one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds
> very unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly
> and we suspect it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been
> used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the
> surfaces to see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want
> to be something that might adversely affect the plastic and the
> seats. Thanks.

Its probably one of those deoderising cleaners / sprays soap and
water will be your best option followed by febreeze or one of the
odour neutrisers sold at halfrauds

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:03 am
From: Rob Graham

On 07/06/2010 11:47, jkm1 wrote:
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
> one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.
>
>

Check that it's not the screen wash liquid. When I last bought a brand
new car it stank of dead rats when you operated the washers. Renewing
the wash fluid cured that.

Rob Graham

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:39 am
From: ransley

On Jun 7, 5:47 am, "jkm1" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
> one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

A sulfurous smell can be a battery very low on water.Ive had plastic
bags melt on the exhaust. If it was recently cleaned Alcohol can be
used to go over smooth surfaces, if its in the seats and carpet park
it in the sun with windows open. It will just take time, maybe weeks
or more.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple hack to get $500 to your home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0aff506b0bed631f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:48 am
From: money mania

Simple hack to get $500 to your home at http://mastidunia.tk

Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on left side below search box, click on image
and enter your name and address where you want to receive your
cheque.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What would Jesus ask a Darwinian? A possible explanation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7c02fbcad5311967?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:23 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 7, 7:58 am, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:21:32 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the , Creator
> of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Jun 6, 9:20 pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
>
> > > And a little later you tell me you cannot ride a bike without being
> > > attacked. Could it be that Little Haiti has some resemblance to big
> > > Haiti?
>
> TibetanMonkey
>
> > Listen, it's hard to understand that I do NOT live in Little Haiti? I
> > live in a mixed community with no blacks. No whites either. Just Jews
> > further down the road, and they take care of *their* community only.
>
> But you cannot bike without being attacked. Where do you think the
> attackers live?

I live next to the lions. I've been attacked by the lions who hate the
competition from the monkeys on bike. Never mind I'm a VIP monkey and
my bikes are the Rolls Royce of bikes.

>
> > > You complain that the elite live behind walls. You think they are
> > > happy with that? They want the trash to be locked behind walls.
>
> > They wished, that's the argument behind B-13...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19CrlgB0ueU
>
> Seems like a good idea to me.

They are going to nuke the jungle. But everything is exposed and the
"gated community" for the monkeys is open again.

How about the lions REALLY trying to pacify the jungle and trying not
to keep the monkeys dumb? How about legalizing drugs to see 50% of the
problem gone?

Too bold a step? That's what I propose in the next step up in
evolution (the revolution).

------------------------------------------------

THE REVOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sex crimes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6ea4d12e246dda5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:51 am
From: ekr3d

The Secret Life of a Sexual Predator

lawyers-ekramy.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-crimes.html

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e7ea049218b55cef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:50 am
From: Naeem

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: using bricks to replace driveway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f9b05e9d50972b81?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:25 am
From: Ohioguy

We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet wide,
which needs replaced.

I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did.
I've considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of
gravel, and placing brick for our front drive.

However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only
seem to have brick with holes in it.

Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?

I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced
with concrete. I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.

Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:52 am
From: "Lou"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:u49Pn.21827$%u7.9989@newsfe14.iad...
> We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet wide,
> which needs replaced.
>
> I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
> have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did. I've
> considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of gravel,
> and placing brick for our front drive.
>
> However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only seem
> to have brick with holes in it.
>
> Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?
>
>
> I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced
> with concrete. I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.
>
> Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

My house came with a gravel driveway. After 10 years or so, I got estimates
of around 5k to have it paved. I ended up buying more gravel at the time.
A few years later, I decided I wanted it paved, but rather than asphalt or
concrete, I decided to go with EP Henry pavers because I liked the way they
look.

This is a big deal, because vehicles tend to be heavy. They dug down at
least 2 feet (maybe more) carted all that stuff away, laid down gravel and
sand, compacted it, levelled everything off, then laid down the pavers.
Last step was getting some kind of sand into the cracks between the pavers.
There was heavy machinery involved and at least 3 or 4 guys to do the labor,
and it took over a week, maybe two - it was years ago, and my memory is hazy
on this point.

All in all, I think using bricks would be similar. A big job for one guy
with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, though I guess it could be done if you can
park on the street for a while (like a month or three). Since you already
have a paved driveway, maybe the foundation work is already there and you'd
"only" need to take up the old paving, level everything off, and lay down
the brick. I don't remember what it cost, but concrete or asphalt would
have been cheaper. But the pavers look great.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much power does a 120v 15A lighted switch use anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3870703c69659a21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:59 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <da4b7beb-a04b-4d00-888e-aff3e0e0928d@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
terry wrote:

>Maybe OK in principle but ............ Problem is that based on $2,50
>per month ($30.00 per year), if indeed it is that much? That just over
>8 cents per-day is inconsequential in the overall cost of operating a
>North American home. (Less than 1% of energy bill).

1% here, a fraction of a percent there and other places, half a percent
in a couple more, another % in each of a couple other places... That
often adds up to something significant.

>Eight cents per day is here (NE Canada) about 8/10ths of 1000 watt
>hours during one day, or the equivalent of leaving one 34 watt
>fluorescent tube light fixture on all the time!.
>Since we have a 9 'LED strip above our sink that uses ONE watt
>(total), which we leave on all the time, it's hard to perceive 'All
>the little indicator lights' adding up to anything significant!'
>Also recall that after WWII, in the UK, neon 'night lights' became
>available and my grandfather saying, with some delight, that he turned
>off everything in the house except the night light and 'The meter
>didn't even move'!

>As posted here previously, mains voltage neons use a milliamp or two,
>at 120 or 240 volts, LEDs probably less!

LEDs usually take more. Few get less than 2 mA, and 10 mA is typical.
Keep in mind that most indcator LEDs even now have chip chemistries that
were available in the mid to late 1970's. That is done ecause they cost
less than more efficient more modern ones.
With an average supply voltage that LED power comes from likely being
around 5 volts in consumer products other than power strips, along with
losses in the power supply, I would expect typical power consumption by
and associated with each LED glowing in the house to be ~.07 watt. What
if there's a lot of those?

However, I would worry more about wallwarts being plugged in all the
time and computers, monitors, TVs etc. drawing a few watts each when they
are plugged in but "off", and 4-7W incandescent nightlights that can be
replaced by 1/3-watt to 1-watt LED ones.

>And since all/most electrical energy entering a home ends up as heat
>within the house envelope anyway .................. !

Which in most places costs more per BTU than natural gas, fuel oil
and heat pumps do. And when it's not heating season, the electricity cost
does not offset anything. And when it's air conditioning season, the cost
is compounded.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:53 am
From: SMS

On 06/06/10 10:04 PM, terry wrote:

<snip>

> As posted here previously, mains voltage neons use a milliamp or two,
> at 120 or 240 volts, LEDs probably less!

Indicator LEDs are about 2mA at 2VDV, so at 120VAC the losses in the
transformer and rectifiers are far more than the power actually drawn by
the LED. A neon lamp might actually be more efficient to run off of AC
since you don't have all the losses of the magnetics. You could run an
LED off low voltage AC and it would just illuminate on half of each
cycle (some cyclists do this when they connect an LED directly to their
dynamo without using a rectifier).

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