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* If every roof was a solar panel - 15 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dd0a5af9cc4337f6?hl=en
* Lessons from Japan: The Politics of Limit - 2 messages, 2 authors
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TOPIC: If every roof was a solar panel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dd0a5af9cc4337f6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 20 2011 9:53 pm
From: J Burns
On 3/20/11 7:17 PM, AndyS wrote:
> Andy comments:
>
> Well, lets look at some numbers:
About a year ago, the cost dropped below $1 per watt. Here's an example:
http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=47&products_id=1504
A pallet of 50 would cover 214 square meters, produce 2.3kW peak, and
cost $2254. Tax deductions and utility rebates may cover some of that.
http://dallas-solar-panels.com/
According to this page, annual production in Dallas (day and night,
winter and summer, rain and shine) averages 13% of peak. That would be
2583kWh per year. At 15 cents per kWh, that could cut 387.45 off your
bill if you always use it as you produce it or if in your state it's
legal to let your excess run the meter backward. Counting the cost of
the panels only and excluding rebates and deductions, that would be a
six-year payback.
If you aren't using storage batteries and it's not legal to run your
meter backwards, then the electric company will pay you something less
than retail for electricity you sell them; so your payback would be
longer than 6 years but could be much less than 6 years if you count
rebates and deductions.
In that case, it might pay to have some battery storage, to save some of
the excess from sunny hours instead of selling it to the utility.
Besides, a little storage could let you run essentials during power outages.
Power-company peaks come from A/C. Presumably, it's in their interest
to have customers with solar panels. Peak A/C coincides with peak sun,
so their peak capacity can be smaller. If I had an A/C designed to run
from solar panels of my capacity, I could run it straight from my
panels: no fear of blackouts or outages with the sun beating down.
I'm ignoring other costs such as an inverter. (For more than 10 years,
my BIL has had a windmill, inverter, and batteries to run his household,
shop, and electric car; the utility is his backup.)
>
> That's 1200 kwh per month. Probably about half what you or I use
> now, but not unrealistic to tighten our belts and be comfortable
> with...
I believe the US household average these days is 1000kWh a month. Mine
is about 325, so $2254 worth of panels would produce most of what I use
in a year. My refrigerator is more than 20 years old. If I bought a
modern one, the annual production of those panels could exceed my annual
consumption.
Cars, refrigeration, A/C, and electronics are far more efficient than
they were in the 1970s, but per capita energy use is about the same. I
guess we're greater spendthrifts than we were then, when it comes to
energy. Maybe I should skip the solar panels and just get a new
refrigerator.
== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 6:00 am
From: me@privacy.net
AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one
square yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to
coast
And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to
inject this power back into grid
== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 10:53 am
From: "Rod Speed"
me@privacy.net wrote:
> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this power back into grid
All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in the winter
for heating once they come home from work etc and would be no use for that.
== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 11:19 am
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8uphliFo03U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> me@privacy.net wrote:
> > AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> > ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square yard of panel....
> > again one every roof coast to coast
>
> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>
> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>
> > And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this power
> > back into grid
>
> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>
> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in the
> winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would be no use for
> that.
Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air conditioning
during the day
== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 12:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
>>> power back into grid
>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
>> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
>> be no use for that.
> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air conditioning during the day
A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 2:35 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8upn8eF4jmU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> me@privacy.net wrote
> >>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> >>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
> >>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>
> >> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>
> >> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>
> >>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
> >>> power back into grid
>
> >> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>
> >> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
> >> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
> >> be no use for that.
>
> > Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
> > conditioning during the day
>
> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
And the poster wasn't talking about one square yard, drongo, he was talking
about every roof. Do learn to read
== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 3:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>>>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
>>>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>>>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>>>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>>>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
>>>>> power back into grid
>>>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>>>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
>>>> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
>>>> be no use for that.
>>> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
>>> conditioning during the day
>> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
> And the poster wasn't talking about one square yard, drongo, he was
> talking about every roof. Do learn to read
Even someone as stupid as you should be able to see the one square
yard panel mentioned in the second para, fuckwit.
== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 4:52 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8uq32dFunoU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>> me@privacy.net wrote
> >>>>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >>>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> >>>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
> >>>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>
> >>>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>
> >>>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>
> >>>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
> >>>>> power back into grid
>
> >>>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>
> >>>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
> >>>> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
> >>>> be no use for that.
>
> >>> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
> >>> conditioning during the day
>
> >> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
>
> > And the poster wasn't talking about one square yard, drongo, he was
> > talking about every roof. Do learn to read
>
> Even someone as stupid as you should be able to see the one square
> yard panel mentioned in the second para, fuckwit.
Even a drongo like you should be able to see the "one on every roof coast to
coast" mentioned in the second para. Do learn to read
== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 8:19 pm
From: Karen Silkwood
In article <9rieo6tfr0jj5qiqcvnftu9ji5f0abf9j0@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:
> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one
> square yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to
> coast
>
> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to
> inject this power back into grid
What if every yard had a garden. Plants have solar displays. called
leaves. If you have a nice southern exposure for your house install
bigger windows with adjustable shading. Free Heat.
--
Karma, What a concept!
== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 8:21 pm
From: Karen Silkwood
In article <8upn8eF4jmU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> me@privacy.net wrote
> >>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> >>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
> >>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>
> >> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>
> >> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>
> >>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
> >>> power back into grid
>
> >> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>
> >> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
> >> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
> >> be no use for that.
>
> > Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
> > conditioning during the day
>
> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
But some shading and maybe a swamp cooler can eliminate the need for A.C.
--
Karma, What a concept!
== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 8:31 pm
From: bob haller
On Mar 20, 7:17 pm, AndyS <junglean...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 18, 8:57 pm, Karen Silkwood <george...@toast.net> wrote:
>
> > We wouldn't need nuke power plants or Wars for Oil.
> > Wouldn't that be a better world? New research could make the panels
> > cheap. They could heat water or air, even make electricity.
> > and Karen would still be with us.
> > --
> > Karma, What a concept!
>
> Andy comments:
>
> Well, lets look at some numbers:
>
> A "typical " house has about 5000 sq ft of roof, which is
> 185 sq meters.
>
> Sunlight, at 90degrees, puts about 1000 watts per sq meter on
> the earth during "full sun". (That is about 120 pk w/sqm from a
> solar panel at 12% efficiency)
>
> Dallas, for instance, has an average of 5.5 hours of "full sun" per
> day.
> (That's averaging over an entire day, 24 hrs, and then converting
> that to direct, unblocked sunlight hours)
>
> That means a roof could intercept 185 X1000X5.5 = 1000 kwh per day.
>
> The roof cannot be aimed. As the sun moves, the output goes down
> Use about 30% for non-trackable efficiency.
>
> Solar Cells have theoretical max efficiency of 17%. Typically, they
> run around 12%, in a practical system.
>
> Storage cells are used to store and then redistribute the energy.
> Efficiency
> varies, but lets say a 75% efficiency could be obtained, to have a
> realistic
> number
>
> There's other stuff, but so far our conversion efficiency is
> .30 x .17 x .75 = 4% (approx)
>
> That means the 1000kwh of sunlight per day from a 5000 sq ft
> roof could result in about 40 kwh of power available for use.
>
> That's 1200 kwh per month. Probably about half what you or I use
> now, but not unrealistic to tighten our belts and be comfortable
> with...
>
> Now, what does it cost.
>
> 185 sq meters x 120 = 22000 peak watts
> Presently , solar panels are around $5 per peak watt.
> which means $111,000 dollars for the panels to cover a
> 5000 sq ft roof.
>
> Plus installation --- probably 25K
> Plus the storage battery installation --- est around $10,000
> Plus the electric inverters to convert the stored energy est around
> $5000
>
> OK, we have a ball park number of $151,000 to accomplish the task.
>
> The panels will last about 20 years, so that's $72,000 per year....
>
> My present electric bill, to generate twice that amount of power,
> is about $2000 per year......
>
> WoW !!!! Doesn't look very practical with today's technology...
>
> However, I encourage you to learn enough about the systems to do
> the cost analysis for yourself. You'll probably use different
> numbers,
> but not radically so.
>
> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> That's really like thinking "free gasoline" and then having to
> pay for a car to use it.....
>
> Andy in Eureka, Texas registered P E
worse storage batteries age and will need replaced......
== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 9:21 pm
From: Michael Black
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Karen Silkwood wrote:
> In article <9rieo6tfr0jj5qiqcvnftu9ji5f0abf9j0@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
> wrote:
>
>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>>
>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one
>> square yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to
>> coast
>>
>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to
>> inject this power back into grid
>
> What if every yard had a garden. Plants have solar displays. called
> leaves. If you have a nice southern exposure for your house install
> bigger windows with adjustable shading. Free Heat.
But that really was what it was about forty years ago.
Note that wind power was somewhat common in the thirties on farms, they'd
be used to charge some batteries for the radio and maybe a few other
things, before electricity had been brought to the farms. But they
basically lived without electricity, so they used other "power" to
heat the homes and cook the food, and the wind power was just a
supplement.
Forty years ago when people were talking about "alternative technology",
the thrust was to minimize consumption. Make houses energy efficient, so
they didn't need much power for heating (or cooling). Build them from
scratch, so you could do a better job than trying to retrofit some old
house designed for fashion. Since electricity would be difficult to come
by via solar panels or windpower, you tried to eliminate electricity use
before that. Don't make electricity then convert it to heat, build up
solar collectors to heat up the home, or bury the house to keep it at a
constant temperature to limit heating/cooling power consumption.
Forty years ago, a house could live with relative little electricity, if
done properly and the will was there. But they'd do things like get
propane powered refrigerators. But also, there was a lot less things
around the house that ran off electricity. And what you'd do is modify
the equipment to run off DC or buy equipment that ran off DC, so you'd
avoid collecting power through solar panels and then using an inverter to
get the power up to 120VAC, which the equipment would then convert
internally down to a lower voltage DC.
And you'd change your life, take advantage of daylight sun, and then go to
bed as darkness arrived (more or less). Solar power disappears at night,
hence the need for storage system in order to provide power when the sun
isn't out.
Michael
== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 9:36 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>>>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>>>>>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
>>>>>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>>>>>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>>>>>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>>>>>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this power back into grid
>>>>>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>>>>>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and
>>>>>> in the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and
>>>>>> would be no use for that.
>>>>> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
>>>>> conditioning during the day
>>>> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
>>> And the poster wasn't talking about one square yard, drongo, he was
>>> talking about every roof. Do learn to read
>> Even someone as stupid as you should be able to see the one square
>> yard panel mentioned in the second para, fuckwit.
> Even a drongo like you should be able to see the "one on every roof
> coast to coast" mentioned in the second para. Do learn to read
You're hallucinating, again.
== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 9:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Karen Silkwood wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>> AndyS <jungleandy1@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>>>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
>>>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>>>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>>>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>>>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
>>>>> power back into grid
>>>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>>>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and in
>>>> the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and would
>>>> be no use for that.
>>> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air conditioning during the day
>> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning, stupid.
> But some shading and maybe a swamp cooler can eliminate the need for A.C.
You wont run a full house swamp cooler with a square yard panel either.
== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 11:24 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8uqnamF15jU2@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> It only looks practical if you are thinking "free sunlight"....
>
> >>>>>>> ok but what if every roof in the USA had just one square
> >>>>>>> yard of panel.... again one every roof coast to coast
>
> >>>>>> It would be a waste of a hell of a lot of money.
>
> >>>>>> Essentially because square yard of panel wont power very much.
>
> >>>>>>> And every roof was grid tied into the system so as to inject this
> >>>>>>> power back into grid
>
> >>>>>> All that would do is put more power into the grid when it isnt needed.
>
> >>>>>> Its needed most when people start cooking in the evening etc and
> >>>>>> in the winter for heating once they come home from work etc and
> >>>>>> would be no use for that.
>
> >>>>> Yes, because nowhere in the civilized world would anyone use air
> >>>>> conditioning during the day
>
> >>>> A square yard of panel aint gunna drive a house's air conditioning,
> >>>> stupid.
>
> >>> And the poster wasn't talking about one square yard, drongo, he was
> >>> talking about every roof. Do learn to read
>
> >> Even someone as stupid as you should be able to see the one square
> >> yard panel mentioned in the second para, fuckwit.
>
> > Even a drongo like you should be able to see the "one on every roof
> > coast to coast" mentioned in the second para. Do learn to read
>
> You're hallucinating, again.
Translation: He is absolutely correct and I didn't notice the part about every
roof coast to coast. I am such a drongo
--
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras lobortis volutpat
commodo. Morbi lobortis, massa fringilla adipiscing suscipit, velit urna
pharetra neque, non luctus arcu diam vitae justo. Vivamus lacinia scelerisque
ultricies. Nunc lobortis elit ligula. Aliquam sollicitudin nunc sed est gravida
ac viverra tellus ullamcorper. Vivamus non nisi suscipit nisi egestas venenatis.
Donec vitae arcu id urna euismod feugiat. Vivamus porta lobortis ultricies.
Nulla adipiscing tellus a neque vehicula porta. Maecenas volutpat aliquet
sagittis. Proin nisi magna, molestie id volutpat in, tincidunt sed dolor. Nullam
nisi erat, aliquet scelerisque sagittis vitae, pretium accumsan odio. Sed ut mi
iaculis eros rutrum tristique ut nec mi. Aliquam nec augue dui, in mattis urna.
In pretium metus eu diam blandit accumsan. Ut eu lorem sed odio porttitor
blandit.
--
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras lobortis volutpat
commodo. Morbi lobortis, massa fringilla adipiscing suscipit, velit urna
pharetra neque, non luctus arcu diam vitae justo. Vivamus lacinia scelerisque
ultricies. Nunc lobortis elit ligula. Aliquam sollicitudin nunc sed est gravida
ac viverra tellus ullamcorper. Vivamus non nisi suscipit nisi egestas venenatis.
Donec vitae arcu id urna euismod feugiat. Vivamus porta lobortis ultricies.
Nulla adipiscing tellus a neque vehicula porta. Maecenas volutpat aliquet
sagittis. Proin nisi magna, molestie id volutpat in, tincidunt sed dolor. Nullam
nisi erat, aliquet scelerisque sagittis vitae, pretium accumsan odio. Sed ut mi
iaculis eros rutrum tristique ut nec mi. Aliquam nec augue dui, in mattis urna.
In pretium metus eu diam blandit accumsan. Ut eu lorem sed odio porttitor
blandit.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lessons from Japan: The Politics of Limit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/09f05aae5b18c1ee?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 5:36 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
> April 2008
> Anyone who has spent more than a week in Japan has probably been
> surprised at the lack of regard that cyclists here often show both for
> their own safety and for the safety of others. It is not uncommon to
> see housewives cycling with one child on a seat in front and one
> behind, or salarymen riding one-handed in order to hold an
> umbrella(even on windy days!), or even high school students steering
> with one hand while sending text messages on their mobile phones with
> the other. Unsurprisingly this type of irresponsible behaviour has led
> to a dramatic increase in the number of accidents involving bicycles,
> with the result that the National Police Agency has, on paper at
> least, begun to clamp down on dangerous cyclists.
What do we got here? We got reckless cyclists in Japan and reckless
SUVs in America.
Why SUVs have to accelerate when passing a bicycle? Why their motors
roar? Why they seem to be glued to the phone?
It seems few in this "dog-eat-dog" capitalism lives free from fear.
But still the Japanese seem less intimidating.
Enough jungle wisdom for now.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 6:02 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
The news from Japan are indeed chaotic. A lady spent an hour riding a
bike --almost as much as I rode today. And this other gay spent his
gas trying to put gas. Usually it takes one guy to push a small car,
but probably he failed to see the advantages of stick shift...
"One man wasted so much gas queuing up that his car ran dry and needed
several people to push it up to the station.
Kabuya Kubo said she had waited for nearly six hours to put gas in her
tank. Ever since the tsunami, she has had to bike to work whenever the
car runs low on fuel -- a one-hour trip, versus 15 minutes by car."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110321/lf_afp/japanquakelifestyleeconomy
***
I promote bicycles first, then scooters and finally small stick shift
cars.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: This is Not Spam - Get Your 5 Free Training Video's That Will Help You
Understand The Foreclosure Process...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bcd01e9f9097c96b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 6:32 am
From: Ethan Poltrack
Watch these 5 training video's on the course of 4 day's and I promise
if you pay attention to them you will have a better understanding of
the home foreclosure process and how you can prevent it. You will also
receive some insight on how you can save $200, $500, even $1,000 a
month off your mortgage payments. Incredible information. Start my
educating yourself a little. You can get your training course by going
to http://ethanexplains.com and filling out the short form and I'll
send it to you right after you sign up. If you use a free email
service such as yahoo, and hotmail be sure to check your spam filters
because for some reasons these free services filter out Everything.
Thank you and I'm sure you'll enjoy these while educating yourself.
Ethan P.
Website: http://ethanexplains.com
==============================================================================
TOPIC: One of the best-known shoe company has launched an attractive Air
Jordan X Jordan Force
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a8791eca084e4ea7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 6:58 pm
From: "www.brandtrade09.com"
http://www.airmax-seller.comOne of the best-known shoe company has
launched an attractive Air Jordan X Jordan Force Fusion (AJF 10) –
"Steel" shoes "These shoes are designed specifically for the Air Force
You can get these shoes attractive in two patterns different colors
Nike Air Max 2011 , which are white … stainless steel and gray
pattern. The design of these shoes is exceptional. These shoes are
really attractive and sporty. Air Max 95
Nike Air Max TN included in our website, Nike Air Max 2010, 3 styles,
Nike Air Max 90 Nike Air Max TN women. But the fact is, most people
choose to air the biggest increase in 2010, but it is a new style. You
choose to make their own Air Max shoes?
Nike 6.0 Dunk Low SE
Black/Olive Khaki-Medium Brown-Sport Red (407609-006)
Light Charcoal/Light Charcoal-Blue Sapphire (407609-008)
$75 Nike Air Max 90
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