http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* University Medical Center Tucson Advertising - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b79f4c9ea300020?hl=en
* Frugal Potassium Iodide? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a117af0bec4bad24?hl=en
* Damn Pedestrians! - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a4486f5ab89c33d5?hl=en
* OT: Nuclear Crisis in Japan - 11 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4e19044edc193817?hl=en
* Maryland Governor MARTIN O'MALLEY -- Looking More LIke A Modern BOSS TWEED!
Lining-Up His Buddies To Share BILLION$ From Offshore Wind Farms! - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/05aa88a7bee082f6?hl=en
* Dry AMD.. eyesight issues.. some might find interesting - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30eed3ba0c6f4803?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: University Medical Center Tucson Advertising
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b79f4c9ea300020?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 15 2011 11:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote just the peurile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 12:33 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8ub33gFk9hU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
:>)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Potassium Iodide?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a117af0bec4bad24?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 1:56 am
From: Darkfalz
Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
meltdown?
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:20 am
From: Jeff Thies
On 3/16/2011 4:56 AM, Darkfalz wrote:
> Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
> meltdown?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodide
A natural source is Kelp. Otherwise widely available in "Vitamin" shops.
Don't loosen a wingnut though. You should only take this if you are
exposed and should only take as directed, it has side effects.
You live in Japan? Or are you just becoming unhinged?
Jeff
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:31 am
From: Michael Black
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Darkfalz wrote:
> Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
> meltdown?
>
It's not frugal if you don't understand before doing something.
If you weren't worried last month about nuclear radiation, then there's
nothing to worry about now.
Even if you lived on the west coast, there's a lot of Pacific ocean
between Japan and there, so any released radiation has an awful long
time and space to dissipate.
Even if something does arrive at the west coast, you'll have actual
wearning.
Wasting money on pills because you can't understand things is not
frugal.
Besides, the same news report that got you all hyped up about
wanting to buy pills should warn you that there is a scarcity,
perhaps because of real potential problems in Japan (and adjacent
countries, China isn't that far from island Japan). But also, that
news report should have told you there is a scarcity because apparently
the raw material is used in a currently hot electronic item.
Besides all that, if you don't know what the iodine pills are supposed
to do, then forget it. Besides, there are other things to be worrying
about than iodine if radioactive particles get to you.
On the other hand, it's probably a good time to think about whether you
are prepared for an emergency, not because of Japan or because suddenly
you think that nearby reactor is dangerous when you didn't think about
it last month, but because it is frugal to be prepared. Since being
frugal means keeping canned goods in stock, and buying in bulk so chances
are good you already have some emergency supplies, you need to look
at what is missing.
Michael
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:22 am
From: me@privacy.net
>> Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
>> meltdown?
>>
send that money to Japan! not on some stupid pills!!
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:47 am
From: Karen Silkwood
In article <6nu0o6d6hl8hovlkm8a8u31rg119v87q8i@4ax.com>,
Darkfalz <darkfalz79@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
> meltdown?
Instead. relax and enjoy some Miso Soup
Anti-Radiation Miso Soup with Kombu
http://planetthrive.com/2011/03/anti-radiation-soup/
--
Karma, What a concept!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Damn Pedestrians!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a4486f5ab89c33d5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 2:40 am
From: Harry Brogan
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:17:11 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit Campaign"
<nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Here I am, a legitimate refugee from the mean roads riding my bike
>down the sidewalk, I ring the bell twice and this pedestrian is faking
>she doesn't listen to me because he's listening to her MP3, singing
>and dancing!
>
>I think it is time to settle once and for all who owns the road and
>who own the sidewalks. And who are we supposed to be sharing with in
>the first place?
>
>There's no civility in this world or what?
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
Next time you get that errant pedestrian the can't ((or is ignoring))
the bell you are ringing try this...
http://www.deltacycle.com/Airzound-Bike-Horn
THAT will probably get their attention.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:33 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
On Mar 16, 5:40 am, Harry Brogan <hbroga...@NOSPAMyahooNOSPAM.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:17:11 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
> TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit Campaign"
>
>
>
> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Here I am, a legitimate refugee from the mean roads riding my bike
> >down the sidewalk, I ring the bell twice and this pedestrian is faking
> >she doesn't listen to me because he's listening to her MP3, singing
> >and dancing!
>
> >I think it is time to settle once and for all who owns the road and
> >who own the sidewalks. And who are we supposed to be sharing with in
> >the first place?
>
> >There's no civility in this world or what?
>
> >------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> Next time you get that errant pedestrian the can't ((or is ignoring))
> the bell you are ringing try this...
>
> http://www.deltacycle.com/Airzound-Bike-Horn
>
> THAT will probably get their attention.
Hey, cars have done it to me, so why not? Yesterday, as I was riding
the sidewalk, this loud roaring motor was coming from the back and I
was wondering what it was. It was a sharp 1980's Caprice in gang
style, going fast and zigzagging around cars.
If I had been on the sidewalk I'd have been paralyzed. Those roaring
motors are really terrorizing. Actually I think ear plugs of some kind
may help.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:39 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
On Mar 16, 2:47 am, "Sharx335" <sharx...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Motorists own the roads. Pedestrians own the sidewalks. Cyclists
> own the garbage dumps. You have a problem with that?
Yes! Motorists are trashing the planet, and pedestrians are too-slow
moving and too few to be any significant solution.
But it's only to be expected in a dumb system ruled by dumb people.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:54 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
Let me be honest and say that there's a certain political issue with
this: Those walking sidewalks are mostly elderly people who vote for
the status quo and ignore the bike as a solution, so they must be
ready to face what comes at them. And some of those sidewalk riders
really go fast!
I have come with a new term to describe some cyclists out there --
sometimes myself-- who populate our asphalt jungle... "pedecyclist."
This is someone who rides on sidewalks when he can, and then walks
when there's danger to others.
A "predecyclist," on the other hand, is a predatory cyclist riding
without regard to others.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Nuclear Crisis in Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4e19044edc193817?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:09 am
From: Jeff Thies
On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I, also
> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised-concerns-1972_n_836227.html
>
>
> Designs:
> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as well
the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has been running
dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1-reactor-schematic.html
Jeff
>
> Jeff
>
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:09 am
From: "trader4@optonline.net"
On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>
> > Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I, also
> > used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>
> >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised...
>
> > Designs:
> >http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>
> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as well
> the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has been running
> dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>
> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1...
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
design of
the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning that
from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT been
compromised.
Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
understand
exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
surprised to find out that after an earthquake
and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
were
wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries could
turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 7:34 am
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I, also
>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised...
>>
>>> Designs:
>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>
>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as well
>> the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has been running
>> dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>
>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1...
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
> design of
> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning that
> from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT been
> compromised.
>
> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
> understand
> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
> were
> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries could
> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
TDD
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 7:55 am
From: Han
The Daring Dufas <the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in
news:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
> On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>>> also
>>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
>>>> d...
>>>
>>>> Designs:
>>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>>
>>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>>
>>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
>> design of
>> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
>> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
>> been compromised.
>>
>> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
>> understand
>> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
>> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
>> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
>> were
>> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
>> could
>> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>
> I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>
> TDD
From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator error
(failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power generators)
and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
cooling because of flooding with seawater.
Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during the
design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may or
may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:25 am
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 9:55 AM, Han wrote:
> The Daring Dufas<the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in
> news:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>>> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>>>> also
>>>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
>>>>> d...
>>>>
>>>>> Designs:
>>>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>>>
>>>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>>>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>>>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
>>> design of
>>> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
>>> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
>>> been compromised.
>>>
>>> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
>>> understand
>>> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
>>> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
>>> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
>>> were
>>> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
>>> could
>>> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>>
>> I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>>
>> TDD
>
> From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator error
> (failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power generators)
> and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
> cooling because of flooding with seawater.
>
> Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during the
> design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
> established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may or
> may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
>
>
It's my understanding from the report I heard via radio news that the
fuel tanks were washed away by the big wave. There was no fuel for the
emergency generators.
TDD
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:37 am
From: Jeff Thies
On 3/16/2011 9:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I, also
>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised...
>>
>>> Designs:
>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>
>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as well
>> the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has been running
>> dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>
>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1...
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
> design of
> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning that
> from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT been
> compromised.
What I posted, which was linked from Huff Post is the GE brochure on the
Mark 1, Mark 2 and Mark 3 and an article on how 3 engineers quit in '72
over the design.
You are the one judging content by the source.
Why do you shoot the messenger?
>
> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
> understand
> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
> were
> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries could
> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
Last I noted is that they were periodically removing all personnel from
the site because it was too dangerous to work in.
In fact the Mark 1 design is not fail safe but is fail catastrophic.
Unit 4 reactor was shut down for maintenance prior to the accident and
it's on site spent fuel storage is periodically burning. There is no
containment structure for that when the blow out panels have blown out
and radiation in copious amounts is released directly to the atmosphere.
Additionally there are radioactive elements detected that suggest
reactor breaching in #2 in some form is certain.
If anything things are getting worse, not getting better. The Mark 1
design is simply not sufficient for an emergency cooling loss accident.
Such an accident could be caused by tornadoes and other natural causes.
I posted this purely as background information and am only now
commenting on it because of your clear prejudice. In fact I am a
proponent of nuclear energy and have been. But if you read the GE
literature the Mark 1 design was promoted as being of a cost benefit
design. What cost is the accident? Is this not gong to be hugely
expensive? Who will pay?
Smarter more forward looking utilities have gone toward the more
expensive pressurized water or at least toward the later boiling water
designs that have greater reserves and not have spent fuel positioned in
the blow out zone. It's all in the literature if you had bothered to
read instead of shooting the messenger.
Jeff
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:55 am
From: Jeff Thies
On 3/16/2011 11:25 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> On 3/16/2011 9:55 AM, Han wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas<the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in
>> news:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
>>>>>> d...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Designs:
>>>>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>>>>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>>>>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
>>>> design of
>>>> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
>>>> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
>>>> been compromised.
>>>>
>>>> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
>>>> understand
>>>> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
>>>> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
>>>> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
>>>> were
>>>> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
>>>> could
>>>> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>>>
>>> I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>> From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator error
>> (failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power generators)
>> and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
>> cooling because of flooding with seawater.
>>
>> Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during the
>> design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
>> established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may or
>> may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
>>
>>
>
> It's my understanding from the report I heard via radio news that the
> fuel tanks were washed away by the big wave. There was no fuel for the
> emergency generators.
Th failure mentioned here is because they did not notice that the tanks
had run dry on unit 4 on day 2 (I believe) that took some time to
detect. There are other operator type errors that have occurred because
they have been overwhelmed by the situation. Blow out panels damaging
adjacent reactor plumbing has not helped either. Much of this was
forseen and dismissed.
Last update has two of the reactor vessels with cracks and releasing
radioactive steam. This will get worse. If you look at the design and
see what they are trying to do you can see that this is difficult and
unprecedented. These were never meant to be flooded with seawater,that
is being done because both the high pressure emergency cooling has
failed and the low pressure suppression pool emergency cooling was
insufficient for the task. In effect the built in emergency cooling
systems are complete failures.
Jeff
>
> TDD
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:29 am
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 10:55 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:
> On 3/16/2011 11:25 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> On 3/16/2011 9:55 AM, Han wrote:
>>> The Daring Dufas<the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in
>>> news:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
>>>>>>> d...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Designs:
>>>>>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>>>>>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>>>>>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
>>>>> design of
>>>>> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
>>>>> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
>>>>> been compromised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
>>>>> understand
>>>>> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
>>>>> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
>>>>> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
>>>>> were
>>>>> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
>>>>> could
>>>>> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>>>>
>>>> TDD
>>>
>>> From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator error
>>> (failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power generators)
>>> and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
>>> cooling because of flooding with seawater.
>>>
>>> Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during the
>>> design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
>>> established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may or
>>> may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's my understanding from the report I heard via radio news that the
>> fuel tanks were washed away by the big wave. There was no fuel for the
>> emergency generators.
>
> Th failure mentioned here is because they did not notice that the tanks
> had run dry on unit 4 on day 2 (I believe) that took some time to
> detect. There are other operator type errors that have occurred because
> they have been overwhelmed by the situation. Blow out panels damaging
> adjacent reactor plumbing has not helped either. Much of this was
> forseen and dismissed.
>
> Last update has two of the reactor vessels with cracks and releasing
> radioactive steam. This will get worse. If you look at the design and
> see what they are trying to do you can see that this is difficult and
> unprecedented. These were never meant to be flooded with seawater,that
> is being done because both the high pressure emergency cooling has
> failed and the low pressure suppression pool emergency cooling was
> insufficient for the task. In effect the built in emergency cooling
> systems are complete failures.
>
> Jeff
>
Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster is
complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when I
looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake, it
was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no warning.
I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but how would you
prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
TDD
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:05 am
From: Han
The Daring Dufas <the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in news:ilqs0s$5uj$1
@news.eternal-september.org:
> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster is
> complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when I
> looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake, it
> was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no warning.
> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but how would you
> prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
The reactors and their systems were fine after the quake. The tsunami that
came had been estimated for worst case scenarios to be 5 meters (~16 feet).
It was more like twice that. Therefore instead of a force just due to
weight of water, it was 10 tons per square meter (vertical static force),
rather than 5. Similarly all horizontal forces probably were twice worst
case scenario.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:28 am
From: "Rod Speed"
trader4@optonline.net wrote
> Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote
>> Jeff Thies wrote
>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>> also used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised...
>>> Designs:
>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1...
> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the design
> of the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning that
> from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT been compromised.
> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to understand
> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
> surprised to find out that after an earthquake and sunami ranking in the
> top 5 of the last century, while the plants were wrecked the total radiation
> released beyond the plant boundaries could turn out to be minimal
Its already a bit worse than that. Some have ended up with significant radiation levels at Fukushima airport.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9020581/aussie-rescuers-exposed-to-japan-radiation/
> and not a serious threat.
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:46 am
From: Han
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8ucdprFhq9U1@mid.individual.net:
> Its already a bit worse than that. Some have ended up with significant
> radiation levels at Fukushima airport.
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9020581/aussie-rescuers-exposed-to-
> japan-radiation/
That link says (as far as I could read) that 2 people had been contaminated
with low level contaminants. That means that some radioactive dust flew
off and attached to their clothing or something like that. Geiger or
whatever counters are very sensitive and will distinguish between ~30
counts per minute and 60 cpm. Therefore it is real easy to find something
that low. Riding the subway in New York or flying cross country gets you
more radiation. Keep perspective!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maryland Governor MARTIN O'MALLEY -- Looking More LIke A Modern BOSS
TWEED! Lining-Up His Buddies To Share BILLION$ From Offshore Wind Farms!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/05aa88a7bee082f6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:10 am
From: Schwitt Kylers
Off course, the wealth will come from a lifetime cost to the state's
energy CUSTOMERS, who are already being ripped-off by their electrical
contractors.
And a WOLF's at the door ... BEOWULF Energy, that is.
------------------------------
"For O'Malley and friend, interests align in offshore wind bill"
By Aaron C. Davis
The Washington Post
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley's childhood friend and right-hand man
for a decade stands to gain from the governor's ambitious plan to
subsidize development of an estimated $1.5 billion offshore wind farm.
Michael R. Enright is managing director of an energy firm behind a
joint venture competing for federal leasing rights to develop the
project.
The company would have to win both federal and state approvals. But if
it does, a commission appointed by O'Malley (D) would work out a
complex deal sending billions in revenue to the company over 25 years
by raising almost every state resident's electric bill.
As the governor's chief of staff, Enright was deeply involved with
energy issues but later said he never significantly contributed to the
administration's wind energy policy. Before he left the governor's
office in January 2010, he requested an ethics review clearing him and
his new employer to work on the wind energy initiative. Weeks later,
Beowulf Energy and Enright filed paperwork with the state identifying
the company as an interested developer of offshore wind.
Two other members of O'Malley's trusted inner circle who are now in
the private sector also have business interests aligned, indirectly,
with the governor's offshore wind bill through their work for Pepco.
There has been no suggestion that the potential benefit for Enright,
who became fast friends with O'Malley at age 14, was a football buddy
in high school and became O'Malley's first deputy mayor in Baltimore
and ultimately his chief of staff in Annapolis, would violate Maryland
law.
But never before has such a high-ranking aide who helped intimately in
the governor's ascent — and whom O'Malley still counts among his
closest friends — stood to possibly gain from one of his signature
bills.
Enright's move is emblematic of a revolving door between government
and the private sector that has become common in Washington and in
every state capital.
With more O'Malley staffers likely to migrate to the private sector
before his second term ends, the governor's ties to Enright and
growing ranks of former staffers and friends in the private sector are
certain to be scrutinized as talk increases of a possible O'Malley run
for the presidency.
"The governor will be able to say that he would have supported these
issues regardless — he's talked about a green economy for years — but
they are the kinds of connections that nonetheless raise eyebrows,"
said Todd Eberly, a political science professor at St. Mary's College.
"In Maryland, they probably do not hurt him because with a very, very
united [and Democratic] state government, there's no real chance of an
investigation . . . but if he seeks higher office, does someone bring
this up and say, 'You were trying to give sweetheart deals?'
Potentially, that's the case, the risk for O'Malley."
A federal decision
In an interview, O'Malley stressed that it is not his administration
but the U.S. Interior Department that will initially decide which
company will win the right to develop Maryland's offshore wind area,
because it is in federal waters. "As I understand it, Michael's new
employer is one of many people seeking to win approval from the
federal government in one of the areas that they have designated for
offshore wind, so I think it's a pretty attenuated chain of events" to
tie it to the state, O'Malley said.
In an e-mail, Enright also stressed the federal competition. His firm,
Beowulf, is a partner in Maryland Offshore LLC, one of eight companies
seeking leasing rights to develop Maryland's offshore wind area,
according to state and federal records.
"Offshore wind is a promising clean energy industry for the state and
the nation's economy. Maryland Offshore Wind is competing against
seven other companies in a federal process that is in its infancy," he
said.
After the federal government awards leasing rights, Maryland's Public
Service Commission, controlled by O'Malley appointees, would assess
the feasibility of each developer's business model, and if more than
one developer wins federal leasing rights, it would determine which
company or combination of companies would be included in the state's
long-term power purchasing agreement. That agreement would set the
cost to ratepayers and essentially determine the developer's profit
margin.
Proponents believe that with similar investments in other states,
competition will increase and make the price of wind power competitive
with that from fossil fuels.
The cost of the subsidy in Maryland, however, would be spread among
nearly every ratepayer for the next quarter-century. The monthly cost
for most has been estimated at $1.44 to $3.61.
Friends and former colleagues of Enright's bristle at any suggestion
that the former chief of staff or others from the administration have
sought to parlay their relationships with the governor into high-
paying private-sector jobs.
"There's no K Street for O'Malley's guys in Annapolis," said Sean
Malone, who was employed by the governor until 2008 to lobby the
General Assembly on behalf of his agenda.
"The governor's office gives good access to all lobbyists; they'll
hear everybody out. But sometimes you're on the right side, and
sometimes you're on the wrong side," said Malone, who is now a
lobbyist on the wrong side of O'Malley's offshore wind effort. His
firm represents energy companies seeking to kill or significantly
alter the bill.
"Anybody who's wondering: The governor's office doesn't do anything
because one of us is on an issue," Malone said.
Encounters vs. lobbying
Enright has not registered as a lobbyist in Annapolis, and neither has
Beowulf.
But Enright's every move in the state capital, where he still works on
many days, is watched carefully, given his close ties to O'Malley.
Even casual encounters around the capital can open him up to
criticism.
A case in point: After an offshore wind briefing this year before the
House Economic Matters Committee, which would have to approve the
governor's plan, lobbyists for a rival energy interest who happened to
be in a popular restaurant and bar across the street from the State
House noticed when Enright began chatting with Del. Dereck E. Davis (D-
Prince George's), the committee's chairman.
"I saw him, and he spoke to me. It was sort of a casual mention" of
offshore wind, Davis said when asked about the encounter.
Enright told Davis to let him know if he could "be of assistance,"
Davis recalled. "He didn't really come at me like, 'Do this, do
this.'"
Enright's discussion with Davis probably would not be enough to
require the governor's former aide to register as a lobbyist, the
director of Maryland's ethics commission said.
Ethics panel review
Documents show that before he left the state's payroll, Enright sought
clarification on ethics rules to avoid any question of a conflict of
interest.
At the time, he was easing out of his role as chief of staff, serving
as O'Malley's special adviser and working on, among other topics,
state energy policy.
The documents show that as the governor's office announced Enright's
departure to Beowulf in January 2010, Enright spoke with state lawyers
at least three times about post-employment ethics issues, including
asking whether an administration report drafted while he worked for
O'Malley and published that month would create a conflict.
The report concluded that offshore wind and other clean energy
projects "must be developed" in Maryland for the state to meet its
renewable energy goals.
"I was not involved in the drafting of the report and I did not sign
off on it," Enright wrote on Jan. 20, 2010. State ethics opinions are
confidential, but Enright provided the opinion and e-mail
correspondence with state lawyers to The Washington Post at the
paper's request.
Enright also asked the commission to review whether there would be
"any ethics issues" if Beowulf responded to a request for information
from O'Malley's energy administration, which was in the process of
drafting its offshore wind strategy.
On Feb. 4, four days after Enright started at Beowulf, the commission
voted to approve a staff lawyer's recommendation that Enright had not
met a threshold of having "significantly participated" in the state's
offshore wind policy development "and therefore he would not be
precluded from working on these matters" on behalf of Beowulf.
At the beginning of March, Beowulf responded to the state with its
proposal.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 12:13 pm
From: "Eddie Haskell"
"Schwitt Kylers" <slipuvalad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:186ee732-84b4-45fa-8c46-abeac9997dec@o21g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Off course, the wealth will come from a lifetime cost to the state's
> energy CUSTOMERS, who are already being ripped-off by their electrical
> contractors.
> And a WOLF's at the door ... BEOWULF Energy, that is.
> ------------------------------
> "For O'Malley and friend, interests align in offshore wind bill"
> By Aaron C. Davis
> The Washington Post
> Tuesday, March 15, 2011
> Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley's childhood friend and right-hand man
> for a decade stands to gain from the governor's ambitious plan to
> subsidize development of an estimated $1.5 billion offshore wind farm.
I wondered what kind of smear the fascist DNC / MSM cabal would orchestrate
against O'Malley for wanting to reign in the unions that are bankrupting his
state.
Fuck you fascists.
You are deservedly hated and despised by all Americans.
-Eddie Haskell
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dry AMD.. eyesight issues.. some might find interesting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30eed3ba0c6f4803?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 1:15 pm
From: phil scott
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19892876
Drusen is an aglomeration of plagues that builds up under the ultra
sensitive rods and cones in the macula of the eye and forces curves
into that surface distorting the central vision first, then cutting
off blood flow to the area, promping new blood vessels to form in the
area, that do more damage and cause WET AMD and central vision
blindness.
The Drusen has a heavy amyloid content, this article is the first in
the world I've read that mentions in detail the fact of different
particle sized amyloid, (partial protiens), I've been calling them
species.. with emphasis on their toxicity and resulting nerve damage.
also with the mention of the nerve damage,
That points somewhat directly at peripheral neuropathy seen in
diabetics that has been specultated on before but only vaguely in
white papers, as amyloids being connected with diabetes....I had
suspected that for a long time.
Its a valuable article.
From my perspective then it is seen that by reducing amyloid in the
body one can prevent much damage and also by previous studiies and my
reports in this series, and by research at Stanford and Minnisota U
(as seen on PBS over the last 10 years) almost 100% of the damage is
reversible.
That's been my experience as well.
My amyloid series posted here, with an array of various other search
terms, such as amyloids, ganglia, microglia, immune, and what I see
as some of the root causes for amyloid generation traceable to higher
levels of amyloidosis in people with excessively active left brain
function or other stressors... for example, and how that is indicated
by much denser amyloid accumulations on that persons right side
spine ganglia connections to the rest of the musculature and organs..
and the ramifications of that etc....and mention various options and
what I did to reverse at least most of those damages.
Pardon my ongoing misuse of medical terms… I are a egineeer, nots a
medical doctor.
Phil scott
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