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* Dry AMD.. eyesight issues.. some might find interesting - 1 messages, 1
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* OT: Nuclear Crisis in Japan - 15 messages, 7 authors
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dry AMD.. eyesight issues.. some might find interesting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30eed3ba0c6f4803?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 1:15 pm
From: phil scott
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19892876
Drusen is an aglomeration of plagues that builds up under the ultra
sensitive rods and cones in the macula of the eye and forces curves
into that surface distorting the central vision first, then cutting
off blood flow to the area, promping new blood vessels to form in the
area, that do more damage and cause WET AMD and central vision
blindness.
The Drusen has a heavy amyloid content, this article is the first in
the world I've read that mentions in detail the fact of different
particle sized amyloid, (partial protiens), I've been calling them
species.. with emphasis on their toxicity and resulting nerve damage.
also with the mention of the nerve damage,
That points somewhat directly at peripheral neuropathy seen in
diabetics that has been specultated on before but only vaguely in
white papers, as amyloids being connected with diabetes....I had
suspected that for a long time.
Its a valuable article.
From my perspective then it is seen that by reducing amyloid in the
body one can prevent much damage and also by previous studiies and my
reports in this series, and by research at Stanford and Minnisota U
(as seen on PBS over the last 10 years) almost 100% of the damage is
reversible.
That's been my experience as well.
My amyloid series posted here, with an array of various other search
terms, such as amyloids, ganglia, microglia, immune, and what I see
as some of the root causes for amyloid generation traceable to higher
levels of amyloidosis in people with excessively active left brain
function or other stressors... for example, and how that is indicated
by much denser amyloid accumulations on that persons right side
spine ganglia connections to the rest of the musculature and organs..
and the ramifications of that etc....and mention various options and
what I did to reverse at least most of those damages.
Pardon my ongoing misuse of medical terms… I are a egineeer, nots a
medical doctor.
Phil scott
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Nuclear Crisis in Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4e19044edc193817?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 2:22 pm
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 1:05 PM, Han wrote:
> The Daring Dufas<the-daring-dufas@stinky.net> wrote in news:ilqs0s$5uj$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster is
>> complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when I
>> looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake, it
>> was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no warning.
>> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but how would you
>> prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
>
> The reactors and their systems were fine after the quake. The tsunami that
> came had been estimated for worst case scenarios to be 5 meters (~16 feet).
> It was more like twice that. Therefore instead of a force just due to
> weight of water, it was 10 tons per square meter (vertical static force),
> rather than 5. Similarly all horizontal forces probably were twice worst
> case scenario.
>
Well, I suppose that's what I meant, perhaps I should written "Worst
disaster combination they never imagined"?
TDD
== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 2:43 pm
From: Hank
On Mar 16, 10:55 am, Han <nob...@nospam.not> wrote:
> The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net> wrote innews:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> >> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
> >>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>
> >>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
> >>>> also
> >>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>
> >>>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
> >>>> d...
>
> >>>> Designs:
> >>>>http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>
> >>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
> >>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
> >>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor #4.
>
> >>>http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
> >>> ...
>
> >>> Jeff
>
> >>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
> >> design of
> >> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
> >> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
> >> been compromised.
>
> >> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
> >> understand
> >> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
> >> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
> >> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
> >> were
> >> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
> >> could
> >> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>
> > I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>
> > TDD
>
> From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator error
> (failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power generators)
> and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
> cooling because of flooding with seawater.
>
> Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during the
> design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
> established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may or
> may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
Let me say that I know nothing about Nuclear Power Plants. But from
the reports I have read/heard, the major problem was the fact that
both back-up water pumping stations (both the diesel generator
operated pump and battery operated pumps failed. Why don't they have a
steam turbine/steam reciprocating pump as back-up? The reactor
produces steam, steam runs the pumps. All is good.
I have worked with steam driven reciprocating pumps while in the Navy,
so, I know it can be done to pump water to cool the rods.
Hank <~~~~just a peon, probably wrong on this somehow :-)
== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Han wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> trader4@optonline.net wrote
>>> In the end, I would not be surprised to find out that after an
>>> earthquake and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century,
>>> while the plants were wrecked the total radiation released
>>> beyond the plant boundaries could turn out to be minimal
>> Its already a bit worse than that. Some have ended up
>> with significant radiation levels at Fukushima airport.
>> http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9020581/aussie-rescuers-exposed-to-japan-radiation/
> That link says (as far as I could read) that 2 people
> had been contaminated with low level contaminants.
Yes, but that clearly does prove that there is significant radioactive
material outside the plant boundarys, unlike what he said.
> That means that some radioactive dust flew off and
> attached to their clothing or something like that.
It was actually on their shoes, so it must be on the ground they walked on.
> Geiger or whatever counters are very sensitive and will
> distinguish between ~30 counts per minute and 60 cpm.
That article doesnt say what levels were actually seen.
> Therefore it is real easy to find something that low.
> Riding the subway in New York or flying cross
> country gets you more radiation.
No it does not.
> Keep perspective!!
Comprehend what is being discussed!!!
== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Hank wrote:
> On Mar 16, 10:55 am, Han <nob...@nospam.not> wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net> wrote
>> innews:ilqhpo$7du$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 3/16/2011 8:09 AM, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> On Mar 16, 8:09 am, Jeff Thies<jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/15/2011 6:07 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I,
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>>
>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raise
>>>>>> d...
>>
>>>>>> Designs:
>>>>>> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>>
>>>>> A bit better explanation of the drywell/wetwell in GE Mark I, as
>>>>> well the "blowout" panels and the spent fuel reservoir which has
>>>>> been running dry and burning particularly in the offline reactor
>>>>> #4.
>>
>>>>> http://www.beyondnuclear.org/home/2011/3/12/fukushima-dai-ichi-unit-1
>>>>> ...
>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>
>>>>>> Jeff- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
>>>> design of
>>>> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning
>>>> that from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT
>>>> been compromised.
>>
>>>> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
>>>> understand
>>>> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
>>>> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
>>>> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the
>>>> plants were
>>>> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries
>>>> could
>>>> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
>>
>>> I don't think those reactors were designed for submarines.
>>
>>> TDD
>>
>> From what I have gathered is that a) there may have been operator
>> error (failure to fill up the diesel tanks of the emergency power
>> generators)
>> and/or failure of the electrical equipment needed for the emergency
>> cooling because of flooding with seawater.
>>
>> Both would seem to be factors that should have been evaluated during
>> the
>> design process. Whether that was GE's responsibility or not will be
>> established upon investigation. The IMPORTANT LESSON is how this may
>> or
>> may not apply to other nuclear power plants.
> Let me say that I know nothing about Nuclear Power Plants.
Thats obvious.
> But from the reports I have read/heard, the major problem was the
> fact that both back-up water pumping stations (both the diesel
> generator operated pump and battery operated pumps failed.
They cant have failed completely otherwise they couldnt
have pumped sea water into the reactors and they did.
> Why don't they have a steam turbine/steam reciprocating pump as back-up?
Presumably because that approach would rely on being able
to get steam to drive it from the reactor. That isnt guaranteed.
> The reactor produces steam,
Not always.
The reactor produces electricity too, but they dont rely on that either.
> steam runs the pumps. All is good.
Not if the water doesnt stay where you want it to.
> I have worked with steam driven reciprocating pumps while in the
> Navy, so, I know it can be done to pump water to cool the rods.
The problem isnt just the rods.
> Hank <~~~~just a peon, probably wrong on this somehow :-)
Yep, you certainly have.
== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:36 pm
From: "Bob F"
The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster
> is complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when
> I looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake,
> it was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no
> warning.
1/2 hour warning as I heard it.
> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but
> how would you prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
>
If you can't, you shouldn't build the plant.
== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 7:34 pm
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 8:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
>> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster
>> is complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when
>> I looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake,
>> it was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no
>> warning.
>
> 1/2 hour warning as I heard it.
>
>> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but
>> how would you prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
>>
> If you can't, you shouldn't build the plant.
>
>
A gee golly gosh darn meteor could hit the power plant too!
Perhaps that would be a good reason for not building it?
TDD
== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:14 pm
From: Jeff Thies
On 3/16/2011 10:34 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
> On 3/16/2011 8:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster
>>> is complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when
>>> I looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake,
>>> it was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no
>>> warning.
>>
>> 1/2 hour warning as I heard it.
>>
>>> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but
>>> how would you prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
>>>
>> If you can't, you shouldn't build the plant.
>>
>>
>
> A gee golly gosh darn meteor could hit the power plant too!
> Perhaps that would be a good reason for not building it?
A plant of a different design would not be in the unholy mess that
Fukushima is in now. It's a bad design sold in quantity because it was a
lower cost. It has a cheap completely inadequate onsite spent fuel
storage that in the case of the offline #4 also had the offline fuel.
This should not now be running amuck. You can not afford to take chances
and cut corners with something that can have such dire consequences if
it fails.
This will get worse.
Jeff
>
> TDD
== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:10 pm
From: Michael Dobony
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:07:08 -0400, Jeff Thies wrote:
> Here's an interesting bit about the reactor design (GE Mark I, also
> used in type II) that are currently running rampant:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/reactors-japan-crisis-raised-concerns-1972_n_836227.html
>
> Designs:
> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
>
> Jeff
From what I have been reading and hearing the real problem is lack of
electrical power at the electric power stations (??????). The reactors went
down and the backup diesel generators were waterlogged. With no power to
run the circulation pumps the cooling process went down. It seems to me
that nuclear plants near the ocean and known areas of tsunamis, this was a
stupid idea. These plants were not miles inland away from the probable
tsumani threat. Dry and simple makes sense. The more complicated the
design, the more risk, like cars with power everything. Something WILL go
wrong. An earthquake/tsunami double hit should NOT have been unexpected.
Politics won and now the Japanese people are paying the price for their
greed.
== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:35 pm
From: The Daring Dufas
On 3/16/2011 10:14 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
> On 3/16/2011 10:34 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> On 3/16/2011 8:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster
>>>> is complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when
>>>> I looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake,
>>>> it was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no
>>>> warning.
>>>
>>> 1/2 hour warning as I heard it.
>>>
>>>> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but
>>>> how would you prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
>>>>
>>> If you can't, you shouldn't build the plant.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A gee golly gosh darn meteor could hit the power plant too!
>> Perhaps that would be a good reason for not building it?
>
> A plant of a different design would not be in the unholy mess that
> Fukushima is in now. It's a bad design sold in quantity because it was a
> lower cost. It has a cheap completely inadequate onsite spent fuel
> storage that in the case of the offline #4 also had the offline fuel.
>
> This should not now be running amuck. You can not afford to take chances
> and cut corners with something that can have such dire consequences if
> it fails.
>
> This will get worse.
>
> Jeff
>
Like many other people, I'm all for safety but the owners have to
consider what the stockholders wish to spend on it. In North Alabama
where there are nuclear power reactors, I don't think any thought was
given to a tsunami but there is an earthquake fault not too far away.
Tornadoes are known to hit the area from time to time and there are
passenger jet routes crisscrossing the area. If the plant is on a river,
there is the possibility of a flood. Of course there are some wicked
thunderstorms with cataclysmic lightning now and then, lightening could
wipe out unprotected control and power systems. It's all about location,
location, location. :-)
TDD
== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:33 pm
From: "DGDevin"
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
news:ilqs0s$5uj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Well, it may be that the most prevalent cause of the nuclear disaster is
> complacency and lack of due diligence. I did notice one thing when I
> looked at a map showing the location of the epicenter of the quake, it
> was very close and I suppose the water hit those folks with no warning.
> I haven't immersed myself in the news of the disaster but how would you
> prepare for the worst earthquake EVER?
To start with you don't assume for no particular reason that the worst quake
your reactor will ever have to ride out will be a 7.0 and the worst tsunami
it will face will be one caused by a 7.0 quake.
Most of us probably assumed these plants are way over-engineered, able to
take the worst nature can throw at them and come through it safely even if
they have to shut down for awhile. Well, it turns out GE sold the the Mark
I reactors in part with a lower cost than some competing designs. Gee,
looks like spending more might have been a good idea. And one of the
damaged reactors was supposed to have been shut down this month, but the
company got a ten year extension to keep it running rather than replace it
even though it's already over a decade past it's design life. Oh well,
corporate profits are the most important thing, building a new, safer
reactor would have been really, really expensive.
== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:38 pm
From: "DGDevin"
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
news:ils32g$dl9$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Like many other people, I'm all for safety but the owners have to consider
> what the stockholders wish to spend on it.
Screw the stockholders! Hundreds of thousands of people have been
evacuated, and if this situation gets worse that will seem like a minor
inconvenience especially as the wind shifts to the south. The mentality
that corporate profits should come ahead of the safety of an entire nation
(and of the entire world) is insane.
== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:45 pm
From: "DGDevin"
"Hank" wrote in message
news:743b84f9-467f-4c1e-933c-16f5bd9f32c5@j9g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
> Let me say that I know nothing about Nuclear Power Plants. But from
> the reports I have read/heard, the major problem was the fact that
> both back-up water pumping stations (both the diesel generator
> operated pump and battery operated pumps failed. Why don't they have a
> steam turbine/steam reciprocating pump as back-up? The reactor
> produces steam, steam runs the pumps. All is good.
The reactors are designed to automatically SCRAM (shut down) in an emergency
situation like a major earthquake. And there is no guarantee that the
tsunami wouldn't have disrupted regular power production just as it did the
backup power. If the backup systems and their plumbing had been tougher
that would probably have been sufficient, but for some bizarre reason this
whole plant was insanely vulnerable.
== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:47 pm
From: "DGDevin"
"Rod Speed" wrote in message news:8ud3dkFhfjU1@mid.individual.net...
>> But from the reports I have read/heard, the major problem was the
>> fact that both back-up water pumping stations (both the diesel
>> generator operated pump and battery operated pumps failed.
> They cant have failed completely otherwise they couldnt
> have pumped sea water into the reactors and they did.
Among other things they have been using fire engines to pump water into the
reactors, so it's possible that all the pumps built into the plant are in
fact down.
== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:00 pm
From: "DGDevin"
wrote in message
news:48d6041a-f5c3-42a7-b993-2564ecc9d0b4@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> About what I'd expect from the Huffington Post. A smear of the
> design of
> the GE reactors containment vessel design without ever mentioning that
> from everything I've heard so far, the vessel itself has NOT been
> compromised.
There is ample evidence that the GE reactors were sold as cheaper than
competing designs, that there were warnings going back to the 70s about the
potential for just such failures as we are now seeing, and that the design
of the plant in question was shockingly vulnerable. To suggest that
questioning the safety of the design is a left-wing smear is not a position
supported by the facts.
GE began making the Mark 1 boiling-water reactors in the 1960s, marketing
them as cheaper and easier to build — in part because they used a
comparatively smaller and less expensive containment structure.
US regulators began identifying weaknesses very early on.
In 1972, Stephen Hanauer, then a safety official with the Atomic Energy
Commission, recommended that the Mark 1 system be discontinued because it
presented unacceptable safety risks. Among the concerns cited was the
smaller containment design, which was more susceptible to explosion and
rupture from a buildup in hydrogen — a situation that may have unfolded at
the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
Later that same year, Joseph Hendrie, who would later become chairman of the
Nuclear Regulatory Commission, a successor agency to the atomic commission,
said the idea of a ban on such systems was attractive. But the technology
had been so widely accepted by the industry and regulatory officials, he
said, that "reversal of this hallowed policy, particularly at this time,
could well be the end of nuclear power.''
> Seems to me it would be better to wait for a full investigation to
> understand
> exactly what happened and learn from it. In the end, I would not be
> surprised to find out that after an earthquake
> and sunami ranking in the top 5 of the last century, while the plants
> were
> wrecked the total radiation released beyond the plant boundaries could
> turn out to be minimal and not a serious threat.
"Minimal" and "not a serious threat" would no longer seem to be appropriate
terms to use in this disaster. I bet if you lived a couple of hundred miles
downwind from that plant your opinion would be very different.
== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:02 pm
From: "DGDevin"
"Han" wrote in message news:Xns9EAA9648F5FE7ikkezelf@207.246.207.189...
> That link says (as far as I could read) that 2 people had been
> contaminated
> with low level contaminants. That means that some radioactive dust flew
> off and attached to their clothing or something like that. Geiger or
> whatever counters are very sensitive and will distinguish between ~30
> counts per minute and 60 cpm. Therefore it is real easy to find something
> that low. Riding the subway in New York or flying cross country gets you
> more radiation. Keep perspective!!
That why the USN moved a carrier battle group from downwind of the plant,
because there was less radiation than a ride on the NY subway?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Damn Pedestrians!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a4486f5ab89c33d5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 2:47 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
On Mar 16, 5:26 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> On 3/16/11 8:55 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, aka Comandante
>
> Banana wrote:
> > Let me be honest and say that there's a certain political issue with
> > this: Those walking sidewalks are mostly elderly people who vote for
> > the status quo and ignore the bike as a solution, so they must be
> > ready to face what comes at them. And some of those sidewalk riders
> > really go fast!
>
> So what? The elderly don't walk fast. Not a surprise. Kids, who tend to
> be distracted, and other distracted people, like adults with kids,
> adults on the phone, and adults who have medical problems who move
> slowly use the sidewalk. The side walk is not intended as a high-speed lane.
>
> The side walk is called a "side walk" because people are supposed to
> *WALK* on it.
>
> > I have come with a new term to describe some cyclists out there --
> > sometimes myself-- who populate our asphalt jungle... "pedecyclist."
> > This is someone who rides on sidewalks when he can, and then walks
> > when there's danger to others.
>
> > A "predecyclist," on the other hand, is a predatory cyclist riding
> > without regard to others.
>
> A pedecyclist is sill riding illegally and dangerously when he is riding
> on the sidewalk. PERIOD.
How dumb can they be not to vote for the candidate that promises bike
facilities? Well, the candidates "feed" the issues where they can win,
so you'll never find stuff like that in their political parlance. They
talk about taxes, the defects of the opponents, and how important is
to keep the "family values"...
They never give you deep stuff like this:
"A cyclist on the road doesn't mean he doesn't have money to buy a
car. It doesn't mean he has a toy. He's showing the way to save the
planet and thus humanity. The planet will always be around but our
habits are rather suicidal"
==============================================================================
TOPIC: University Medical Center Tucson Advertising
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b79f4c9ea300020?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote just the peurile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 9:34 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8ud2v6FeilU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
:>)
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 8:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote just the peurile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:07 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
In article <8udf16FocsU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
:>)
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 10:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote just the peurile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are we committing genocide by polluting the planet willfully?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1499fc8444f21bda?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:23 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, originator of the Stop the Bullshit
Campaign"
The word willfully is a tricky one. We range from being vaguely aware
of the problem to denying the problem to openly admitting the
destruction of the environment. The last position is where the willful
factor kicks in, the "evil" acting out in plain view, but it's the
only honest one.
All genocides in the past have a factor of the first two (the Germans
denying knowledge of the Holocaust) and some who obviously do it with
full knowledge. This time though we are threatening the species --our
own species-- and we deny others the capacity to assume personal
responsibility and do something to stop the collective suicide.
It can be something simple like RIDING A BIKE. Yes, this is something
YOU can do to change the world. Imagine a German citizen who refused
to be part of the Nazi army that brought so much misery to Europe.
That's an effective form of rebellion by any means. Assume somebody
chooses not to vote for more of the same in our so called "democratic"
elections. That's valid too.
Sure, you can become vegetarian, choose to recycle --not always
available-- or avoid packaging, but nothing beats the simplicity and
immediacy of solutions such as riding a bike. You sweat it. You live
it. And you refuse to feed the problem, something at the root of the
problem.
May this be a reminder to those who live in denial.
*** WE ARE COMMITTING GENOCIDE ***
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Potassium Iodide?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a117af0bec4bad24?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:24 pm
From: "Bob F"
Darkfalz wrote:
> Is frugal Potassium Iodide available anywhere in light of the Japanese
> meltdown?
If you don't drink contaminated milk, they won't do you any good at all.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Christian Louboutin shoesRed-soles shoes,Cheap Christian sale louboutin
shoes online,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d8984279fa5ddace?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 11:57 pm
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