Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: need advice on choosing a major
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b0e5b7a504fc5e80?hl=en
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== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

s <s@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Thanks again for your reply.

No thanks for your lack of honesty about your personal situation.

>>> I was not asking about assurances or certainity.
>>> I have met actual folks who have done that

>> It isnt that common at all.

> Agreed, it is rare, but not that rare also.

Quite rare to get that straight out of college except with prostitution.

>>> Straight after college does not mean with a
>>> undergrad degree as you seem to have interpreted.

>> No, I meant after the formal education, in the first real full time job after that.

> Then, why did you state "The only way to do that with any certainty is prostitution, literally."

Because its true. There arent many at all that get a 6 figure income immediately
after formal education is completed except with prostitution and you dont need
any formal education with prostitution, just need to look presentable.

>>> (perhaps, I should have stated grad school to clarify, but still
>>> I explained how others did that, getting a Ph.D, medicine degree,
>>> so cannot understand why you jumped to that conclusion)

>> I didnt jump to any conclusion and was discussing what you were discussing.

> Again, then why did you mention "The only way
> to do that with any certainty is prostitution, literally."

See above.

>>>>> or atleast 95K at 24 if I manage to get a tenure
>>>>> track position by publishing sufficiently in Ph.D.

>>>> You wont get tenure straight out of college.

>>> Typically, no one gets tenure after college. After a Ph.D, you
>>> can start as a tenure track faculty which I what I stated. Tenure is
>>> Associate Professor or Professor, Assistant Professor means tenure
>>> track. I have met actual people who are like that after their Ph.D.

>> It isnt that common at all anymore.

> Well quite a bit of of folks who finish Ph.D start as a tenure track
> faculty assuming they choose to go academia and if they have
> done proper work during their doctoral program.

Bugger all of those do that with a 6 figure income at that time.

>>> Again, you misunderstood me or perhaps what is
>>> difference between tenure track and tenured faculty.

>> Nope, again, you have got my position completely wrong.

> You mentioned "You wont get tenure straight out of college. "

Tenure track aint tenure.

> There are two opinions.

Options/alternatives. And there arent just these two.

> One you thought I was stating I would start as a Associate Professor
> (or above) as getting tenure means only that, IMHO, though I mentioned
> Assistant Professor which is a tenure track not tenured faculty.

Or I was rubbing your nose in the fact that tenure track aint tenure.

> Or you got the definition of tenure improperly. You are indeed
> knowledgeable and willing to aid others in many groups
> which is noble of you, but we all being can make errors.

I made no error there.

> Anyway, that is irrelevant to the questions and your answers are appreciated.

Some honesty about your actual personal situation would be appreciated by us.

>>>>> The advantages are job security as I plan to go for State
>>>>> universities, high salary of 95-100K at 24-25 in a area where
>>>>> cost of living is reasonable. The same method can be adopted if I
>>>>> go for a B.S.
>>>>> in Management, then Ph.D in the same field. Or, just a B.S. in
>>>>> Management, working for three years for a reputed company,
>>>>> then a Management degree from the top 10 campuses can
>>>>> make me eligible for the 100K range at 25.

>>>>> Getting a general B.S. degree, then a law degree from a
>>>>> good college can lead me to 100K mark after finishing college.

>>>> Unlikely.

>>> I have met actual folks who have done that.

>> I said UNLIKELY, not impossible.

> If I have met actual folks who have done that,

You'll have to pardon us if we want to see some evidence that they werent lying.

> it does not seem that unlikely

Corse it does when you cant actually list anyone who has actually
done that except in some irrelevant situations like when its someone's
rich relatives that choose to hire them at that rate in that situation.

> and neither did I mention impossible.

I never said you did.

>>> http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/02/do-you-make-a-six-figure-...
>>> This link also provides some folks like that,

>> Trouble is that its impossible to actually check the claim made there.

> Not quite. The people in that link are lawyers, doctors, certified nurse
> anesthetists,small business owners etc. Even if you don't believe them
> salary.com indicates those folks might be in that range.

Not straight out of college it doesnt.

Yes, that GP I know personally is certainly earning that
sort of money, but he wasnt doing that straight out of
college, even if he is prepared to work 80 hour weeks.

>>> though you have to read it fully. Someone there states he
>>> was earning 120K after his Ph.D in a management field.

>> Easy to claim, lot harder to actually substantiate the claim.

>> And I doubt that was immediately after completing the PhD.

> I know someone from college with a Ph.D starting at 100K in
> Binghamton, NY after his Ph.D. The person who claimed 120K
> might be in NYC, CA, Washington D.C. etc. There are some
> folks who state after a Ph.D in hard sciences they were hired
> for 100K by some tech company. Possible, considering
> computational biology and other research scientist
> openings required for tech labs, in an area like NYC.

I'd want to see some hard evidence to substantiate
that claim, because its easy to claim.

Its certainly possible in some unusual field that there are
very few qualified in, but thats not the general thing that
you were talking about and if you want to do that yourself,
its not that easy to identify a field like that to do that in.

>>>>> http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/02/do-you-make-a-six-figure-...
>>>>> seems to suggest lot of folks achieve the six figure mark and some
>>>>> don't have a college degree, work as a truck driver, store manager
>>>>> for a store like Walmart, Home Depot etc. Others are certified
>>>>> nurses anesthetists, cops, etc. working for State/Fedetal/local
>>>>> govt. clearing six figures at twenties or in the early thirties.

>>>> Doesnt mean that many/most manage that tho.

> Well, some people don't like to mention, some don't, but if 1/3 people
> in our country with a degree mention it, it doesn't seem that rare also,
> even if we are excluding tv/radio/sports stars... etc

Nothing like 1/3 get that straight out of college in your sense.

>>>>> I hope I am not considered a mercenary.

>>>> That is precisely what you are.

>> Nope, havent erred once.

>>> Without knowing the reasons for my desire you are
>>> hastily concluding me to be a avaricious person.

>> I didnt even mention avaricious, I clearly said mercenary.

>> The two words have different meanings.

> Well, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mercenary
> lists mercenary as a synonym for avaricious.

The two words arent perfectly matching sets.

> The meanings are not that different.

Different enough tho.

> Avaricious means someone who is greedy (can be funds, materials, food
> etc.) and mercenary means someone whose main motivation is funds.

So clearly quite different.

> They are fairly close, though,

Nope, just similar, but different.

> you were using them in the same meaning while referring to me.

I didnt even use the word avaricious at all.

You are clearly mercenary, but not necessarily avaricious.

>>> Thanks for your advice and time. I wish you did not misunderstand me.

>> I didnt misunderstand anything you said.

> How about the differences I stated above?

No misunderstanding at all, even now that its been discussed in more detail.

> Thanks again for your advice and time. Few give time and
> advice as liberally as you do which is deeply appreciated.

No problem.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

s <s@mailinator.com> wrote:

>> And it isnt just the income that matters either. I had a real standard
>> of living quite a bit higher than the boss of the place I was working
>> for, who was earning quite a bit more than your 6 figure income,
>> because I was both working in a well paid professional job, and was
>> physically building my house at the same time in a country where the
>> value of the house was tax free income.

>> I was also making a lot of money on the stockmarket at the same time
>> and in fact chose to not use any of my money for the house, because
>> I was earning more on the stock market than I was paying in interest.

>> And that was straight out of college in your sense,
>> the first full time job after completing the higher degree.

>> I was also involved in small business as well.

> That is possible, in your case you might be earning funds
> through three means(job, stock market, business)

Much of it was actually the tax free income as a result of physically building the house.

> and their sum might be more than 100K(with all due respect just for the sake of an example).

> I intend to earn through one position, in my choice of fields,
> as it is unlikely I may have time, in fields which need 80-90hrs
> work per week, to start a business or invest in stock market.

Its quite doable.

> Some folks in my class want to have the first job after college
> as a 40hr one for 40K, then earn the 60K through stocks and
> small business using the remaining free time they have.

And I was just pointing out that that is a viable route which worked fine for me.

>>>> I would play the online stock market games multiple ways until I
>>>> lost the gambling urge or realized I needed someone else to make
>>>> my investments.

>>> This seems risky like playing poker online.

>> Nope.

> Then what did he intend?

I just meant its nothing like that risky if you know what you are doing.

>>> Without understanding ROI (Return of Investment)
>>> it seems improper for me to indulge in that

>> That's not what its about.

> Then what is it about?

Working out what the economy is going to do and what stocks will benefit from that.

>>> For that you need to have chosen a field, after college, presumably.

>> Nope, he's suggesting that you try that with the fields that interest you.

>>> And, I am not the only one in race. Lots of IT majors want to intern
>>> in Microsoft, but they have to be the brightest to get there. An IT
>>> major cannot intern there, even if he wants to volunteer.

>> Thats just one operation.

> Most fields are like that, IMHO.

Nope, particularly small business isnt.

> If you are not the best in a field, unlikely that best
> folks in your field will want to work with you, IMHO.

Its MUCH more complicated than that with an unemployment rate of 4.x%

>>> The people who become financially independent
>>> are folks who have some amount to invest.

>> Nope, they just use other people's money.

> But, that means you are financially knowledgeable
> enough else may end up filing bankruptcy.

Sure. And some of the richest people have done that in their past.

There's a real sense in which its one way to become financially knowledgeable.

> Thanks a lot again for your advice and time.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

s <s@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> On Aug 28, 1:48 pm, "cat" <catsandcanar...@nospammeowmeow.com> wrote:
>> "s" <s...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>> Going for a Nursing degree(B.S.+M.S), then become a certified
>>> nursing anesthetistic could enable me to start with 125K or so in
>>> an area like Binghamton at the age of 25, if we consider I finish
>>> B.S.+ M.S at same campus by 22, work for two years and then obtain
>>> the certificate. The advantage is in this field stress seems to be
>>> less(40-50hrs/week) as compared to other fields(70-80hrs/week)
>>> which start with a six figure salary.
>>
>>
>> You can't come out of high school and get a BS/MS in nursing in
>> three years.
>
> If someone turns 17 in May 08, starts college in Aug 08, at 22 he will
> have spent 5 years in college, NOT three. I never stated I could get
> B.S.+M.S in three, but FIVE. And yes, I have seen dozens of average
> folks do that and several college
> advisors told me their college allows that.
>
>> Most generic students who go for the BSN alone are lucky to finish
>> in four, what with all the prerequisites.
>
> Really? I know folks who after their B.S. in a field like psychology,
> get a B.S. in Nursing in one year(fast track program which involves
> taking summer/winter classes which are truly hectic, but possible).
>
>> The BS/MS option is for nurses who have
>> already completed diplomas or associate's degrees in nursing and have
>> several years of nursing experience, or for generic students who
>> already have baccalaureate degrees.
> Not all colleges. If you are getting a B.S in Nursing in some
> campus(just from high school), you probably can get a M.S also in same
> field in the same campus after you complete B.S.
>
>> You also can't come out of nursing school and
>> go right into anesthesia school. CRNA programs are master's-level,
>> BTW, not certificates, and they all require experience in emergency
>> room or intensive care nursing prior to application.
>
> I mentioned 2 years of work is required and that is what I intended by
> work(though I did not clarify it)
>
>> Admissions are highly competitive, and
>> students are strongly discouraged from working while they go to
>> school due to the intensity of the programs, so even with the
>> stipend that some programs offer, financial stability is crucial.
>
> World is competitive and these fields are no different. Most M.S
> students seem to work during their M.S. as a Teaching Assistant/
> Reaearch Assistant though their field is also competitive.

Yeah, thats what I did, and it was a research degree too.

>> And anyone who thinks nursing is a low-stress job is truly either a
>> troll or a complete moron.

> No job is stress free.

Some are, particularly when you are paid to do what you
prefer to spend your time doing and you work for yourself
and can be selective about what you get involved in.

> Low stress is relative. I was referring their job is 60-70 not
> 80-90 as investment bankers/surgeons, though it depends
> on your employer a lot. Your advice might be useful for
> someone who might have no idea about nursing.
> http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/02/do-you-make-a-six-figure-salary-share-your-story.html
> mentions someone who who mentions that degree is useful
> in terms of cost/benefit. That is what I was partly referring to.
> I regret you misunderstood me. But, anyway thanks for your time.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:54 pm
From: "John Weiss"

"s" <s@mailinator.com> wrote...
>
> Then, why did you state "The only way to do that with any certainty is
> prostitution, literally."

You are obviously new here, to question "why" rodless speedless says anything
at all... He's just the resident troll who likes to get people riled up. He's
best ignored.

> Well quite a bit of of folks who finish Ph.D start as a tenure track
> faculty assuming they choose to go academia and if they have done
> proper work during their doctoral program.

OTOH, a tenure track seldom means making $100K+ right after graduation (as you
stipulated). Even tenure track faculty has to "pay their dues" and work their
way up the ladder. If you don't publish enough or pull in enough research
grants, your tenure track may well be derailed, too...

>>> The advantages are job security as I plan to go for State universities,
>>> high salary of 95-100K at 24-25 in a area where cost of living is
>>> reasonable. The same method can be adopted if I go for a B.S.
>>> in Management, then Ph.D in the same field. Or, just a B.S. in
>>> Management, working for three years for a reputed company,
>>> then a Management degree from the top 10 campuses can
>>> make me eligible for the 100K range at 25.
>>> Getting a general B.S. degree, then a law degree from a
>>> good college can lead me to 100K mark after finishing college.

>> I have met actual folks who have done that.

> If I have met actual folks who have done that, it does not seem that
> unlikely and neither did I mention impossible.

"Actual folks" have done a LOT of things that you are unlikely to achieve.
Just following [one of] their general education paths will NOT establish a high
probability of "instant success" for yourself. You would have to figure out
what gave them "the edge" to succeed where others have failed or achieved
"average success." You would then have to figure out how YOU can gain a
similar "edge" that makes you stand out from the crowd.

For example, a BS in Management from a state U will get you a place in line
with THOUSANDS of other similarly [un]qualified graduates for entry-level jobs
in corporate America. An MBA from Harvard MIGHT get you a spot at the head of
a couple of those lines for a high-paying job somewhere. However, if you had
an unremarkable job/internship histroy while in school, and/or an unremarkable
thesis/project, you're unlikely to grab one of the few $100K entry-level jobs
available. IMO, a PhD in Management will be essentially useless outside
academia until you get some real-world experience, so that still fails your
"instant success" test as well.

BTW, since you say you will be going for State universities, which of them are
also included in the "top 10 campuses" you mention? Which "reputed companies"
recruit intensively from that small subset, and from which curriculums? Of the
people they recruit, what percentage makes $100K within 3 or 4 years? What
jobs do they hold? What made them stand out in the first place?

So, in general, you first have to decide which of the several fields you
mentioned you want to pursue as an undergraduate degree. Then you have to
excel in your undergraduate curriculum. You MAY have to target your curriculum
and other activities to the specific companies you discuss above. You will get
an indicator of your potential short-term "success" when you start looking at
graduate schools -- via both your GRE/GMAT/LSAT... test results and by how many
scholarships / fellowships / assistantships you are offered. You will get a
further indicator when you start interviewing for jobs, and find out how many
firms call you back for a second look, and for what kinds of jobs. After all,
you WILL be looking at both options -- immediate graduate school and immediate
employment -- won't you?

Assuming, then, that the graduate schools are interested in you, you will have
to decide again which of them you want to pursue, based on their various
curriculum offerings. Will you choose a law school after a BS in Biology, or
an immediate MS/CNA program after a BS in Nursing, Medical school after a BS in
Management, or...

I, too, know many people making over $100K. I know NONE who started at that
level, and can't readily think of any who made $100K at age 25. Of course,
inflation might work in your favor...

>> >http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/02/do-you-make-a-six-figure-...
> The people in that link are lawyers, doctors, certified
> nurse anesthetists,small business owners etc. Even if
> you don't believe them salary.com indicates those folks might be in
> that range.

Indeed, many people in those fields make >$100K. I suppose a FEW high-flight
lawyers, doctors, realtors, stockbrokers, etc. made that GROSS in their first
full year of professional practice. However, no specialist MD will start that
at age 25, since internship and residency requirements will keep him in the
"student" category for a LONG time! To give you a real-life example, my
brother-in-law got a PhD in Biomechanical Engiheering, then went to medical
school, then decided to specialize in Pediatric Cardiac Anesthesiology. He
finally "hung out his shingle" at age 42! Indeed, he made (and still makes)
good $$ at Cedars Sinai, but can you imagine how much $$ he spent in living and
education expenses for over 20 years?!? Family money is a great thing!

> I know someone from college with a Ph.D starting at 100K in
> Binghamton, NY after his Ph.D. The person who claimed
> 120K might be in NYC, CA, Washington D.C. etc. There are some folks
> who state after a Ph.D in hard sciences they were hired for 100K by
> some tech company. Possible, considering computational biology and
> other research scientist
> openings required for tech labs, in an area like NYC.

Waitaminutehere!!! Now you're mixing those apples with oranges! You said you
were looking at a "reasonable" cost of living area -- NOT NYC or DC! Again, a
single example of someone starting at that salary in Binghamton does not even
come close to raising the probability that you will achieve that! What is his
job? What were his credentials? How many other jobs like that exist in
Binghamton? How many come open every year? Will YOU get "the edge" to qualify
for one of those openings? Will it come available the year you finish your
PhD?

Another of my brothers-in-law made it a goal to make $100K/yr before he was 40,
and made it a point to mention it to my Grandmother. He achieved his goal. He
also achieved a heart attack at 52, and a medical retirement at 53. Be careful
of what you wish for...

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 6:05 pm
From: "John Weiss"

"s" <s@mailinator.com> wrote...

> If someone turns 17 in May 08, starts college in Aug 08, at 22 he will
> have spent 5 years in college, NOT three. I never stated I could get
> B.S.+M.S in three, but FIVE. And yes, I have seen dozens of average
> folks do that and several college
> advisors told me their college allows that.
>
>> Most generic students who go for the BSN alone are lucky to finish in four,
>> what with all the prerequisites.
>
> Really? I know folks who after their B.S. in a field like psychology,
> get a B.S. in Nursing in one year(fast track program which involves
> taking summer/winter classes which are truly hectic, but possible).

So, a normal 4 years for a BS in Psych + 1 more year for the BS in Nursing = 5
years... Also, you would have to make special arrangements to get all the
clinical work done, because many hospitals take in Student Nurses only at
specific times, and many schools are not very flexible in their clinical
schedules...

> Not all colleges. If you are getting a B.S in Nursing in some
> campus(just from high school), you probably can get a M.S also in same
> field in the same campus after you complete B.S.

Sure! And MANY employers won't hire such a nurse because he will expect too
high a salary because of his MS, yet have no experience in the field! Whether
a hospital will hire a CNA with no prior clinical experience is a hard
question, too! Anesthesia is a high-risk business, so an employer would likely
be looking for a level of experience that might be analogous to an MD
Anesthesiologist's 6-year residency...

> http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/02/do-you-make-a-six-figure-salary-share-your-story.html
> mentions someone
> who who mentions that degree is useful in terms of cost/benefit. That
> is what I was partly referring to. I regret you misunderstood me. But,
> anyway thanks for your time.

You seem to be relying a lot on a single blog. I hope it doesn't warp your
sense of reality...

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 8:10 pm
From: "cat"

"s" <s@mailinator.com> wrote in message

> On Aug 28, 1:48 pm, "cat" <catsandcanar...@nospammeowmeow.com> wrote:

>> You can't come out of high school and get a BS/MS in nursing in three
>> years.

Really? You know *dozens* of students who've done this? I've been a nurse
for over 20 years and I don't know *any*.

>> Most generic students who go for the BSN alone are lucky to finish in
>> four,
>> what with all the prerequisites.

> Really? I know folks who after their B.S. in a field like psychology,
> get a B.S. in Nursing in one year(fast track program which involves
> taking summer/winter classes which are truly hectic, but possible).

Was I talking about people who already had degrees??? No. See below.

>>The BS/MS option is for nurses who have
>> already completed diplomas or associate's degrees in nursing and have
>> several years of nursing experience, or for generic students who already
>> have baccalaureate degrees.

> Not all colleges. If you are getting a B.S in Nursing in some
> campus(just from high school), you probably can get a M.S also in same
> field in the same campus after you complete B.S.

Yes, that's true. But a BS/MS option (where baccalaureate and graduate
credits intermingle) are not for generic students.

>>You also can't come out of nursing school and
>> go right into anesthesia school. CRNA programs are master's-level, BTW,
>> not
>> certificates, and they all require experience in emergency room or
>> intensive
>> care nursing prior to application.

> I mentioned 2 years of work is required and that is what I intended by
> work(though I did not clarify it)

>> Admissions are highly competitive, and
>> students are strongly discouraged from working while they go to school
>> due
>> to the intensity of the programs, so even with the stipend that some
>> programs offer, financial stability is crucial.

> World is competitive and these fields are no different. Most M.S
> students seem to work during their M.S. as a Teaching Assistant/
> Reaearch Assistant though their field is also competitive.

If you are truly a teenager, you don't have a fucking clue what is involved,
either with work, the world, or nursing. Lose the condescension,
grasshopper. You haven't earned the right.

>> And anyone who thinks nursing is a low-stress job is truly either a troll
>> or
>> a complete moron.

> No job is stress free. Low stress is relative. I was referring their
> job is 60-70 not 80-90 as investment bankers/surgeons, though it
> depends on your employer a lot. Your advice might be useful for
> someone who might have no idea about nursing.

That would be you, asshole. You haven't any idea what nursing involves.
Given the history of the profession, the idea that you want to go into it
for the money is hysterical.

You talk a good game, but in reality, you're an idiot and a troll. I regret
that you were born.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 8:15 pm
From: "cat"

"John Weiss" <jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet> wrote in
message

> "s" <s@mailinator.com> wrote...

>> Not all colleges. If you are getting a B.S in Nursing in some
>> campus(just from high school), you probably can get a M.S also in same
>> field in the same campus after you complete B.S.

> Sure! And MANY employers won't hire such a nurse because he will expect
> too high a salary because of his MS, yet have no experience in the field!
> Whether a hospital will hire a CNA with no prior clinical experience is a
> hard question, too! Anesthesia is a high-risk business, so an employer
> would likely be looking for a level of experience that might be analogous
> to an MD Anesthesiologist's 6-year residency...

It doesn't even matter if an employer would hire the person. No school will
accept an applicant for CRNA without strong ICU and ER experience. They
can't just go straight through from high school and become a nurse
anesthetist. As for other MSNs with no clinical experience, they are a
joke.

>You seem to be relying a lot on a single blog. I hope it doesn't warp your
>sense of reality...

I didn't realize the jerk was basing his entire plan on somebody's blog.
What a maroon.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 9:57 pm
From: Rick

s wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> > Good answers for an interesting question. Judging from the skill
> > level of the OP in forming a cogent post, the high school might be
> > better than most.
> Thanks for considering my high school a proper one.
>
> > A couple of points to ponder:
> >
> > A salary is only one source of income. The person who minimizes
> > expenses and maximizes investments can often reach retirement with
> > more money than someone with a high salary and little financial
> > discipline or savvy. Stories of janitors bequesting millions to
> > schools might be rare, but they do exist.
>
> Agreed, but to invest you need to have finances. As there are folks
> who want to invest, but cannot do that as they have a family to
> support, house, car loans. House is an investment, but not like real
> estate, stocks, bonds other methods which you have well explained.
> Hence, my desire to start with a decent salary and 100K is not that
> high with inflation and deflation of dollar.

Not meaning to deflate your ego, but what makes you think you will have
anything to offer worth $100,000.00 to an employer fresh out of college
with no work experience?

Your concept of a salary as "not that high" in a world where corporate
profits rule is slightly out of line with the reality of the job market.
If it can be done overseas, that's where the job is. If it can be done
for less, someone else gets your $100,000.00 job for $60,000.00 a year.
Bear in mind that while it is clear you are looking out for your self
interest, people interviewing you in personnel are looking out not only
for their own job - which is hiring the best while keeping costs down,
but for the corporate interests they serve as well. Handing out
$100,000.00 starting salaries generally isn't in line with that
corporate concept, unless you really, REALLY have something to offer
that is worth $100,000.00. The more likely scenarios are students
graduating with Doctorates who spend six months to a year in a job
search and still cannot find a decent job at a reasonable salary, often
abandoning their chosen field to take *any* job. It's not just about a
degree and a chosen field. It's about how much corporate America is
willing to actually pay you. I think you need to go back and do a little
more research on the salary trends in the specific job markets you are
interested in. And take a look at if those fields are actually short on
qualified people to fill positions. There are many fields that cannot
fill open positions, but they aren't high end salaried jobs either.

Rick

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 6:39 am
From: rick++

On Aug 28, 6:49 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, thats what I did, and it was a research degree too.

Australia wasnt it? The UK-derived school systems often allow what US
calls professional studies as the first degree. I was reading about
an
American who go a law degree at Oxford in three years,
which would have taken twice as long and fives times tuition in the US.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freecycle skank?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0fdea79cc1fba129?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:40 pm
From: Patricia Martin Steward

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:11:06 -0700, freebieuser@gmail.com wrote:

>Does anyone use freecycle or any service like it and get harassed by
>these looooooosers who determine whats really worth recycling and
>whats not?

So, what bad experience did you have?

I've used Freecycle multiple times and never had a problem.

--
Face your fears.
Live your dreams.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 10:15 pm
From: Steve

Only big problem with Freecycle is folks who never pick up the
stuff...

A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to.

...Granville Hicks

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 5:20 am
From: "Chloe"

"Steve" <otm@wdc.inv> wrote in message
news:370ad31vdthbb1i341hkrgb7c3o9u78qlm@4ax.com...
> Only big problem with Freecycle is folks who never pick up the
> stuff...

That was my experience the one time I tried to give away an exercise bike in
good condition. Never again. I'm convinced it would have been a better idea
and less hassle to SELL it on Craig's List.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rented apartment with drywall - best fastener options to hang stuff?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ed95e7ab1375335f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 5:41 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <1188324376.187316.151510@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
DouhetSukd@gmail.com wrote:

> I just moved into this new high rise apartment and I'd like to hang
> some stuff up. Mostly a few small paintings, but also a few heavier
> (6.5 pounds/3kg) masks off the walls.
>
> Anything wrong with the walls when I move out will obviously be my
> fault, because the building just went up and I am the first renter.
> So I'd like to minimize my visible exit damages to the drywall.
>
> I have written down the paint color codes from Benjamin Moore for the
> building, so I think I can touch up stuff when I leave.
>
> Any suggestions as to what type of fasteners to use? And best ways to
> fix things up when I leave? I've owned a house and am moderately
> savvy about repairs.
>
> In fact, let's extend the question all the way up to what adhesives to
> use for my kids' posters. Ideally, I don't want my landlady to have
> any excuses to bill me a repainting job.
>
> Cheers

Just use some nails and screws, then buy a can of spackle and a putty
knife when you get ready to move and patch the holes. Really. Its no big
deal.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 6:09 pm
From: Logan Shaw

DouhetSukd@gmail.com wrote:
> I just moved into this new high rise apartment and I'd like to hang
> some stuff up. Mostly a few small paintings, but also a few heavier
> (6.5 pounds/3kg) masks off the walls.
>
> Anything wrong with the walls when I move out will obviously be my
> fault, because the building just went up and I am the first renter.
> So I'd like to minimize my visible exit damages to the drywall.

I don't know that you have to minor nail holes in the walls when you
leave. There's such a thing as normal wear and tear, and I'm fairly
sure that hanging things on the walls is part of that. It might very
well be that provided you don't leave any holes bigger than a small
nail, you wouldn't really need to do anything to repair it.

I suppose it's possible that a particularly picky landlord would try
to ding you for that, but as I understand it, that would be fairly
non-standard in the industry.

- Logan

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 6:53 pm
From: Al Bundy

DouhetSukd@gmail.com wrote in news:1188324376.187316.151510
@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

The place will probably be repainted anyway depending on how long you
live there. Yea, you're renting. But you are allowed to live there ya
know. Part of that is hanging things on the wall, walking on floors
wearing them, using the crapper, etc. All is just a matter of reasonable
care.

Holes in walls are indeed easily fixed if you have the touchup paint.

Tapes, although not recommended for hanging anything other than a poster
maybe, do leave sticky crap on the wall. That is EASILY removed with Goo
Gone available just about anywhere.

http://www.magicamerican.com/images/gg_images/GG3_big.gif

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 9:37 pm
From: jJim McLaughlin

DouhetSukd@gmail.com wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS
> I have written down the paint color codes from Benjamin Moore for the
> building, so I think I can touch up stuff when I leave.
>
Buy the paints *now*. Buy a quart of each that you need. Dollars to
doughnuts in
three years when you move the formulations for colors you have so carefully
written down will have changed and the same color, by the same
manufacturer, will
no longer be available.

Don't open the paints, just store them, preferably upside down so the
can lids are
on the bottom.

And realize that when you do go to do touchups, the paints on the wall
will have
faded and oxidized a bit, and while the paints you stored will be the
closest match
you can get, the match will not be exact due to the ageing of the paint
on the walls.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Personal Finance & Saving Websites
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6eaa673ee2c09903?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 7:26 pm
From: keaswa01@gmail.com

http://sharemysite.com/blog/category/personal-finance/

ShareMySite has a list of the best personal finance sites and blogs.
The staff at ShareMySite reviews and profiles the best sites for
saving, investing, and planning for your financial future.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Guide to frugal living in Philadelphia
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/21cb3d5fd388dffb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 9:32 pm
From: "beaver"

what type of remedy cleans blackened lungs after 30 years? Vinegar?
<useful_infos@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188264512.031354.30700@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Some tips on how to not get reamed.
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 8:16 am
From: "ng_reader"

yes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: preparing meals ahead of time
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7febc7f7a48ea034?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 10:32 pm
From: Rick

OhioGuy wrote:
>
> > idea of using Tupperware or other plastic containers that are designed
> > for exactly what you want to do.
>
> Nope, I want to reuse something that would otherwise be thrown away after
> 1 use, not buy something new.
>
> Plus, I don't microwave in plastic, ever. I am convinced that cooking in
> plastic causes health problems.

So, microwaving a reused paper type container with an application of
Elmer's glue on the edges is healthier because...?

Why not just freeze the meals in plastic and transfer the contents to a
glass container if you are opposed to microwaving in plastic?

The problem I see is that you want to re-use items that are, by design,
made for only a single use and not designed to be cleaned. You know -
that health problem concern when the paper container starts to absorb
more contaminants than you can wash off. It may just not be practical.
Reusing resealable tubs that deli salads come in? Absolutely. Resuing
cardboard-y trays from Michelina's entrees that you have to rip the
cover off to open? Not gonna happen.

But it's your call.

Rick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "The New AT&T" [WAS: AT&T Modem Rebate]
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/012562f812078897?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 28 2007 10:48 pm
From: Rick

larry wrote:
>
> The new at&t is very much the old AT&T,
> their billing system is STILL screwed up.

Oh Jeez, I was REALLY hoping this wasn't going to happen when Cingular
became "the new AT&T." I though Cingular was just absorbing some
piddling remaining AT&T consumer equipment, and that some Corporate
idiot thought the AT&T name would somehow be better than Cingular for
business.

It's the old AT&T all over again. And the worst of it at that. It took
some boob 15 minutes on the phone yesterday to tell me how many message
units I had used in the last billing period. She couldn't figure it out
and had to have a supervisor coach her through the process. I could have
walked to their billing office and looked it up faster myself. It then
took them over 20 minutes to "research" and finally come around and tell
me I couldn't order a replacement battery for my cell phone through
AT&T. Total time on the phone for all that non-service? 39 minutes.

We had Cingular service since 2001 with minimal problems. So far, the
AT&T version hasn't screwed up a bill - yet. But if this is the way it's
gonna be we won't be with "the new AT&T" much longer.

So.... Who's a happy camper with their cell phone service on the east
coast? Looking for recommendations for a new carrier.

Rick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Petition to Presidential Candidates
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6e9bd672f2155c8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 5:04 am
From: greg3347

On Aug 28, 2:46 pm, Mike <mgcul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a NumbersUSA site that shows an ad to run on nationwide tv and
> lets you sign a petition to be presented to the presidential
> candidates. There are 59,459 signings just since yesterday, and I
> believe the petition will be presented on Labor Day.
>
> http://www.reformus.org/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good new!Celebrate beijing2008 Olympic games.Our company low price sell
shoes =25USD,Nokia N95=250USD. www.shopbb.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8cdd47e6029f83d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 29 2007 8:24 am
From: "shopbb.com"

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.shopbb.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.shopbb.com
MSN and E-mail: shopbb@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael

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Frugal Living

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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