Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Sunday, September 9, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When news media whine about 'labor shortages' it simply means employers
don't want to pay existing workers as much
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c75d3f8f8d3003a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:29 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> onionhead <no@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> John A. Weeks III wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or
>>>>> the job opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.
>
>>>> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get
>>>> qualified staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response
>>>> to their national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.
>
>> The trucking companies have only themselves to blame for that.
>> They got themselves a big fat exemption from the labor laws
>> years ago and never miss a chance to use it to screw their drivers.
>> As a result, working conditions are right out of the slave-labor
>> factories of the late 18th century. The only difference is that
>> truckers can quit when they get fed up: 95% of would-be truckers
>> see the writing on the wall and quit in their first 30 days.
>
> Different country.
>
>>> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you are doing
>>> something very wrong. You either are not putting the ads in the
>>> right place, you are putting in requirements that are not needed,
>>> you are paying far under market, or your company has such a bad
>>> reputation that people don't want to work there. Which is it?
>
>> Or the applicants keep finding out that Rod works there.
>
> I dont.
>
>
Great, you finally admit that you do not work.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:59 am
From: ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)

In article <5kh9jvF3l2t0U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
[snip]
>> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
>> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.
>
>Because these are usually operations that cant move.
>
>> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
>> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
>> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.
>
>Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.

They say you get monkeys if you pay peanuts. As these guys are
earning >$80,000 p.a. I guess that's why you get those big apes. ;-)

Incidentally, mate of mine was looking for a carpenter recently for a
job in PNG. No one around here was interested unless it was at least
$10,000/month cash in hand after tax. As he said, that was a bit
rich; they were hoping to get one for about $8,000/month after tax. :)
[For the record: at the present time AUD10,000 is about USD8,300.]

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:46 am
From: professorchaos

royls@telus.net wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 04:22:12 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mindless stuff. Its also seen when the unemployment rate is very low
>> and you dont even get any applicants at all for a particular well paid job.
>
> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or the job
> opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen. The actual
> meaning of "labor shortage" is "wages not declining fast enough
> relative to asset prices to suit the rich."
>
> -- Roy L

Once again Roy shows he does not understand economics. Wages and asset
prices are not related on the market. Differences between rental rates
(the opportunity cost of capital) and wages affect demand for labor not
the quantity demanded. Rental rates on capital and the amount of capital
are fixed when deriving a short run labor supply curve.

A shortage is defined as when Quantity demanded exceeds Quantity
supplied. This MEANS WAGES ARE TOO LOW!! Not too high. A shortage occurs
in the labor market when employers want to hire more workers than are
available. Market prices must rise to clear the shortage. Given enough
time they will rise.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:49 am
From: professorchaos

Mark M. wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
> Low wages and high
> unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with high social service
> costs and high crime.

Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been something
that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but the wages
have yet to adjust.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:54 am
From: professorchaos

John A. Weeks III wrote:

> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you
> are doing something very wrong. You either are not putting
> the ads in the right place, you are putting in requirements
> that are not needed, you are paying far under market, or your
> company has such a bad reputation that people don't want to
> work there. Which is it?
>
> -john-
>

There is another possibility that the market simply has not adjusted.
Economic analysis will tell you wages will rise when labor demands rise.
This does not mean immediately. There are some workers who will take the
new jobs advertised at lower rates when labor demand rises but it may
take a period of time for employers to realize they can not get enough
employees at the current wage.

It takes time to adjust. Businesses do not instantly know labor demand
has shifted and the new market wage will rise. They advertise at what
they think is the going rate. If they can not find workers then they
must raise the rate. As the rate goes up they want to hire less than
they would given the new demand and the old price until labor supply
equals labor demand.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:11 am
From: clams casino

professorchaos wrote:

> Mark M. wrote:
>
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with
>> high social service costs and high crime.
>
>
> Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand
> has increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been
> something that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but
> the wages have yet to adjust.

Firstly, you need to ignore Rod - he's not really up to speed, being
nearly always wrong and / or makes a profession about trolling the
opposite side of any issue just to be annoying.

Secondly, isn't that statement backwards? Should it not read "Low
wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
decreased"? When there is an over supply of workers and/or a reduced
demand for labor (less jobs), the employer can hold back on wages & take
on those willing to work for less. Furthermore, employers don't hire
because wages are lower, but rather because they need workers. When
there is an excess number applying for that job, they can usually find
qualified workers at a lower wage.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 10:39 am
From: professorchaos

clams casino wrote:
> professorchaos wrote:
>
>> Mark M. wrote:
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with
>>> high social service costs and high crime.
>>
>>
>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand
>> has increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been
>> something that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but
>> the wages have yet to adjust.
>
>
> Firstly, you need to ignore Rod - he's not really up to speed, being
> nearly always wrong and / or makes a profession about trolling the
> opposite side of any issue just to be annoying.
>
> Secondly, isn't that statement backwards? Should it not read "Low
> wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
> decreased"?

I admit I committed a bonehead rookie mistake in assuming low employment
meant high unemployment. Unemployment is actually not the opposite of
employment. Unemployment is the percentage of the labor force looking
for work and not finding it. So if the labor market is in equilibrium
the unemployment rate will be low, near the natural rate. This is
because labor supply = labor demand.

I admit I committed a fallacy by confusing low employment with high
unemployment. They are not the same thing. Quantity supplied > Quantity
demanded is a shortage. So I am not sure what I was thinking when I
wrote this. Because an increase in labor supply employment is lower than
it should be. But as you correctly point out this does not mean
unemployment is high.

Your statement is almost correct. However, the wages would still be too
high if unemployment was high. So the decrease in wages would take care
of unemployment. The wages would be too high at this point.

The bonehead mistake is equating unemployment with employment. The
simple example I have shown my students many time should have made sure
I didn't make that mistake. The example is this. Assume the labor force
is 10 people and 90 people are out of the labor force. 9 people are
employed. 1 is unemployed. The unemployment rate is 10%.

Now that lets assume that economic conditions improve and wages rise.
Now there are 20 jobs available but 40 people now enter the labor force.
The unemployment rate is 30/50 > 10%. Unemployment rises as new jobs are
created. Therefore unemployment rates tell us nothing of employment.

My bone head mistake was assuming employment said something about
unemployment. It does not.

Unemployment is a result of a surplus in the labor market. In the
situation I described unemployment would be non-existance.

So the statement low wages and unemployment does not really make sense
in a market environment. Not if you define low wages as compared to the
going rate. Obviously the term low wages here refers to a normative
statement that wages are low not low as compared to market wages.

So it is impossible to have wages lower than market rates and high
unemployment. It is possible to have wages higher than market rates and
unemployment be high and still have low wages if you use some subjective
standard to market wages.

The real confusion here is the thread talks about shortages then claims
unemployment is high. If a shortage in labor exist then unemployment is
low. You can't have a shortage in labor and have unemployment by
definition. Unemployment means there are more people looking for work
than jobs available. A short means more jobs available than people
looking for work.

> When there is an over supply of workers and/or a reduced
> demand for labor (less jobs), the employer can hold back on wages & take
> on those willing to work for less.

This does not cause unemployment. It would decrease unemployment if they
were dropping the wage rate to hire more people.

> Furthermore, employers don't hire
> because wages are lower, but rather because they need workers.

Ah but when wages are lower hiring more workers is profitable. The cost
of production decreases so the profit optimizing output increases. In
order to get the new profit maximizing output they need more workers. So
they need more workers because wages dropped.

Note this is not the only reason they may need more workers. The price
of the final good could have risen, raw materials could have risen in
price, new technologies could be in place. All of these would cause
firms to want more workers and increase labor demand.

> When
> there is an excess number applying for that job, they can usually find
> qualified workers at a lower wage.

In other words you are making the classical assumption that there is no
friction in labor markets. Firms simply lower wages when unemployment
exist. So the market clears at lower wages because LS = LD. Keynesians
certainly do not see it this way because there are efficiency wages,
implicit contracts, or workers will resist a decrease in wages,
unemployment persist because the wage stays too high. That is the
backbone of the Keynesian, and New Keynesian, argument.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:46 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote

>>> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
>>> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.

>> Because these are usually operations that cant move.

>>> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
>>> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
>>> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.

>> Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.

> They say you get monkeys if you pay peanuts. As these guys are
> earning >$80,000 p.a. I guess that's why you get those big apes. ;-)

True. In spades with those proof of Darwin's theory, footballers.

> Incidentally, mate of mine was looking for a carpenter recently for a
> job in PNG. No one around here was interested unless it was at least
> $10,000/month cash in hand after tax. As he said, that was a bit
> rich; they were hoping to get one for about $8,000/month after tax. :)
> [For the record: at the present time AUD10,000 is about USD8,300.]

And then there's getting them to work in Iraq.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RFID chip implants solidly linked to animal tumors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83d5e5a23ae06286?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:58 am
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid

According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these chip implants
are not only safe, they will save lives by allowing the human bearer to
effortlessly carry his entire medical history around with him wherever
he goes. Indeed, the FDA assurances sound almost *exactly* like the chip
manufacturer's sales literature, but with the added ring of "authority".
The chips were enthusiastically endorsed by the agency during the Bush
appointment of Tommy Thompson, Republican from Wisconsin, working in
concert with Jim Sennsenbrenner, Republican Congressman also from
Wisconsin, who also peddled the chips his so-called "Real I.D." Act (HR
418).

So why won't the FDA divulge to the press exactly *which* studies it
reviewed to make this assessment? What's the big secret, FDA? Is it that
a Federal Agency obligated to protect the American people has happily,
blithely approved a passive surveillance device which is now shown to
nourish malignent cell growth in microchipped animals? I wonder if
Thompson and Sennsenbrenner have had their pets or children injected
with these things?

<http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYssebw3_FRuof2bdR1YdCo8OgXA>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suing a Dentist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6126f6980eacfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:11 am
From: Al Bundy

soretooth wrote:
> I bet your a dentist right?
>
> In any case in my many many years of seeing dentists and having many
> filings replaced, this is the first time this has ever happened to me.
>
> There are other issues involved that show this guy probably committed
> malpractice, but, as I said there is not enough money involved to
> interest most attorneys.
>
> I know what to do, but not sure it will get my money back that was
> wasted.
>
> I do know that it will wind up costing him alot more than it cost me.
>
> If you go to an mechanic and you get your car back worse than went you
> went in, do you just pay the bill and walk away with a smile. Especially
> now when these shysters are demanding payment in advance for their work.
>
>
>
OH, but it's very likely a process was already starting in your
tooth. The dentist took the logical step and tried a filling instead
of complete root canal and crown. Yes, wait until you see the
complete bill for the root canal and crown. The cost of the filling
will seem nugatory at that point. Go somewhere else and give them the
money.

Many people take their cars in for one thing and something else goes
bad at the same time. If they know anything about mechanics, they
don't blame the shop. There may or may not be a correlation. You
should take your question to the dental group where professionals can
advise you.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:25 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

I have had to have fillings replaced because they were coming loose.
The replacement itself is not necessarily the problem.

Have you gotten a second opinion?

soretooth wrote:
> Anyone here sued a dentist. Guy replaced filing on tooth that did not
> hurt, now in pain and might need root canal. And he is expecting me to
> pay for his procedure that failed and left me worse off than before.
> What recourse do I have if any. Amount is not enuf to get the attention
> of most attorneys.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:50 am
From: Wooly

Seems as if we had this discussion within recent memory, and the upshot
was:

Shit happens. If you can't deal with the fact that shit happens you
need to move back into your parents' household and let them deal with
shit in an adult fashion since you obviously can't.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: evidence for legalization of pedophilia
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b576e4b85b53911a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:38 am
From: commander zero rides

The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
this.

Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
of those countries.

Consult the book, Harmful to Minors, by Judith Levine; or the book
"Love Against Hate" by Karl Meninger, M.D.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:15 am
From: Logan Shaw

commander zero rides wrote:
> The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
> is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
> sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
> this.
>
> Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
> brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
> jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
> pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
> of those countries.

I've been reading Usenet for over 15 years, and this is the most
obvious troll I've seen so far!

- Logan

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:33 am
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 10:15 am, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> commander zero rides wrote:
> > The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
> > is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
> > sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
> > this.
>
> > Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
> > brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
> > jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
> > pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
> > of those countries.
>
> I've been reading Usenet for over 15 years, and this is the most
> obvious troll I've seen so far!
>
> - Logan

No doubt true, Logan, and it also tells us what type of things are on
his mind. Jim Jones had a few followers too.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:46 am
From: "Lou"

"Chris Hill" <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cad5e39kjanujumeo9a3uneefl39kakf45@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:31:13 -0700, SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Comments?
> >It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
> >every
> >year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
>
>
> You never save money by trading payments for repair costs. Even
> spending $1200 a year repair costs on a truck is cheaper than paying
> $6000 a year in payments or more. Cost isn't a valid reason to trade;
> too many breakdowns or parts being unavailable are two good ones.

Never say never - I had one car where the monthly repair costs were greater
than the monthly payments on a brand new vehicle. Car was three or four
years old when the repairs started mounting up - lemon with a capital L.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:36 am
From: Rick

SQ wrote:
>
> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>
> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.

Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?

Rick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: big loophole in prison sentences "without possibility of parole"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cef8b58cc904b3b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:42 am
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 8, 10:42 am, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> In Maryland, a monster can earn "diminution credits" and get
> transferred to home detention in order to better pursue old
> hobbies and pastimes from the comforts of home.
>
> http://mobile.baltimoresun.com/news.jsp?key=157905
>
> A prison sentence "without possibility of parole" means nothing.
> Apparently they can make up new rules to get around that at any time.
>
> Keep hoping, Charlie Manson.
>
> Don

In my state the governor wants to relieve the prison system burden by
reclassifying many felonies as misdemeanors. Then let prisoners go for
time served against the new class.
Manson is too high profile to be let out. If you listen to what Manson
says and try to get past the code words he uses, he makes way more
sense than the prison officials and parole board. Can you imagine the
money Manson could bring in with public appearances if he were allowed
to?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE INDIVIDUAL IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS "KANGA" AND "KANGAROOISTAN" IS A
CONVICTED PEDOPHILE & REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER IN AUSTRALIA
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9244ea99729ff20f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:56 am
From: "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations, Interpol" <1t8x0yk02@
sneakemail.com>

This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.

Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
run-down shack in the Australia outback.

If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
Investigations, Interpol.

LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
FROM OUR CHILDREN.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 9:29 am
From: kangarooistan

On Sep 9, 11:56 pm, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
On Sep 9, 11:56 pm, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
> counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
> UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.
>
> Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
> run-down shack in the Australia outback.

HIDING half way between the police station and the foriegn minister
Downers head OFFICE ????

Funny place to hide mate
>
> If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
> local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
> Investigations, Interpol.
>
> LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
> FROM OUR CHILDREN.

Easy fixed mate

What you do is google

www.kangarooistan.com.au is a good place to start looking mate

HA HA HA HA HA or look up the election roll

You just Ring the Mount Barker police station in South Australia and
tell them all you know

Leave YOUR name an address with them so they know your for real OK
mate

HA HA HA HA

Tell the coppers that Mal Fabian can be found at his normal place ,
just down the street , next door, over the creek , to Alexander
Downers office , he is the minister for foreign affairs and the local
MP

Not hard to find kanga mate

OK MATE

HA HA HA HA HA

But mate ,we all know you wont even ring them

Cos you are just ANOTHER gutless coward who thinks kanga or anybody
else believes anything YOU say

HA HA HA HA

kanga

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What ever happened to Ebay's unsold item credit?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccba27ea7be6064d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:59 am
From: "OhioGuy"

When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
getting either a listing credit or final value credit.

What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
"credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
more money, and is not a true credit.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:27 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Well, I have seen MANY Ebay sellers abuse the relisting privilege (and
even left neutral feedback for one noting that they had abused this by
"relisting" the item they sold to me), so I suppose they ruined it for
lots of people.

OhioGuy wrote:
> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
> getting either a listing credit or final value credit.
>
> What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
> "credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
> more money, and is not a true credit.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hello
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bbf392a4c9ac5ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 8:09 am
From: Stone hong

Carve but give up half way, even a decayed piece of wood will not
break; carve without stop, even metal and stone can be engraved.
As a jade without chiseling will not become a useful object, a man
without learning will not know the Way.

http://www.maplem.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: health care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9090467738f551b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 8:57 am
From: muwan

keep you and your family health,just go to http://www.health-ask.com,
free oline answers for your health questions.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - buying a politican?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e0b797e682df7d0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:40 am
From: Rick

Bill wrote:
>
> >
> > Are there any on Ebay?
> >
>
> I like that idea!
>
> When a vote is coming up on something, everybody could bid for them to vote
> one way or another. Perhaps everybody could "pool" their funds for them to
> vote a certain way. I wonder if "We the people" could collectively outbid
> some of these large corporations? Maybe get them to spend OUR money here in
> the U.S. instead of sending 30 billion dollars to Israel or the 50 billion
> we have spent on Egypt since the 70's...
>
> United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart
> http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

As weird as this idea sounds, it may not be a bad idea either. It would
be about the only way the poor and disenfranchised could pool enough
money to get the attention of the political status quo and get some
things done which don't involve benefiting multi-million dollar
corporations.

Rick

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Sunday, September 9, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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