Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 8 topics

Sunday, September 9, 2007

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Info on 12 Addicting Drugs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ea92e0345f8729ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 12:23 pm
From: Joe

Drug Rehab Directory Offers Free
Information on 12 Addicting Drugs

Jacksonville, FL.- Drug rehabilitation directory web site,
99detox.com, now offers free information on 12 addictive drugs.
Alcohol, Cocaine, Ecstasy, Heroin, Hydrocodone, Lortab, Methadone,
Oxycontin, Painkillers, Percocet, Vicodin, and Methamphetamines make
up this "dirty dozen" of addictive mood-altering substances. Although
these are frequently seen in local clinics, they are by no means the
most widely used substances.

To read the full text, please go to or click on:
http://www.contactomagazine.com/articles/drugrehab0907.htm

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:40 pm
From: Al Bundy

Joe wrote:
> Drug Rehab Directory Offers Free
> Information on 12 Addicting Drugs
>
Fortunately, I don't need your drug info or the spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:29 pm
From: SQ

IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes
either a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree
mechanic skill set.

Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
$800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
Old cars will need all that.

Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out
regardless of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic
converter, maybe even tear inside the engine for a valve
job. All major $$$.

I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given
a good DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal
way. But article makes no such assumption. If you
take it to mechanics, it seems there is nothing you
can do for under $200. Well, a brake job can be on a special
for $89, and that's just the pads.

Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote

> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.

You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.

My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.

> Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
> auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
> $800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
> tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
> Old cars will need all that.

Mine didnt.

> Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out regardless
> of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic converter, maybe
> even tear inside the engine for a valve job. All major $$$.

Mine didnt.

> I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given a good
> DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal way.

Mine lasted 30+ years fine.

> But article makes no such assumption. If you take it to mechanics,
> it seems there is nothing you can do for under $200.

Bullshit.

> Well, a brake job can be on a special for $89, and that's just the pads.

It aint the only cheap thing you can get done.

> Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
> automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
> EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
> very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.

Mine didnt.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:41 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:36:03 -0400, Rick <rickajho@rcn.com> wrote:

>SQ wrote:
>>
>> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
>> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>>
>> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
>> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>
>Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
>longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?
>
That's pretty much what I've heard. If buying new, that might be the
best one to squeeze the most use per dollar from.
But when buy used it's a bit dicier, since because of their rep they
command a high price.

--Vic

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:58 pm
From: Gordon

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1189315552.224218.158560@
50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>
> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>

That's a pretty good metric. And an easy one to beat.
I bought the Mazda for about $6500. Kept it for 14 years.
Thats less than $500/year. Add in the few repairs and it
doesn't raise the cost by more than $100/year.
Figure a replacement alternator (DIY), radiator(diy),
Clutch(mechanic), gaskets and valves(mech), Rear brake
cylanders and master cyl(diy)

As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
can eat up your savings.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:44 pm
From: SQ

On Sep 9, 5:58 pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:

>
> As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
> machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
> can eat up your savings.

Right - and am I just pointing out that the original
article did not take this into consideration.

I am a DIY person but there have been times when
I just couldn't do a job. Case in point -
exhaust repairs. I know how to install a muffler but
just don't have the facilities to do it. Crawling under
a heavy beast without a proper lift is just dangerous.
I once got a muffler and took it to a repair place
and they charged me $120 just to install it, ouch.
Not a difficult job - pull a few bolts here and there.
But I had no choice.

One thing that really helps me is, I have a backup
vehicle. Meaning, when my primary is down, like when
I am replacing the timing belt or the water pump,
I can afford to DIY, slowly, taking a week if
I have to.

A person who cannot afford the downtime cannot do
this, has to take it in someplace in the morning
and pick it up after work.

If you take your car to mechanic and say you need it
yesterday... you will pay for it. Especially these
quick lube type places on the side of the major road
who don't depend on repeat customers.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:59 pm
From: SQ

I once had 4 beaters in various stages of deterioration.

A full size GM vehicle, 13 years old, had 180K miles, an engine with
100K miles and a few major dents caused by deer which made
it look questionable but did not inhibit the driving
abilities.

Second one was a compact Subaru, had 200K+ miles on body,
100K on engine and 50K on tranny, 12 years old.

Third was a compact Ford product, 120K on it and was 17 years old.

Fourth was full size Ford truck with 100K on body and 60K on engine
but
was 20 years old.

Well - I couldn't keep more than 2 on the road at any one time
on the average due to various issues. Fuel pumps, EFI problems,
exhaust, wheel bearings, tune up, alternator, starter,
power windows... power steering gear box, timing belts,
neutral safety switch and much more.

Once I had mice or some critters chew through the fuel pump
wiring and the vehicle would work randomly. Took me a while
to troubleshoot this one.

It took me weeks to fix something - by shopping around for
the absolute cheapest part, usually used, online, or often
at junk yards. Then finding the time and the place to fix it.
Sure I could have taken them to an auto repair and paid
$400 (as least) for work like fuel pump replacement, but it's so
satisfactory doing it yourself for a fraction of the cost.

I even tried trading all 4 beaters for a normal car
without success.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:29 pm
From: George

Gordon wrote:
> SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1189315552.224218.158560@
> 50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
>> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>>
>> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
>> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>>
>
> That's a pretty good metric. And an easy one to beat.
> I bought the Mazda for about $6500. Kept it for 14 years.
> Thats less than $500/year. Add in the few repairs and it
> doesn't raise the cost by more than $100/year.
> Figure a replacement alternator (DIY), radiator(diy),
> Clutch(mechanic), gaskets and valves(mech), Rear brake
> cylanders and master cyl(diy)
>
> As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
> machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
> can eat up your savings.

Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you can't
take two days off from work to repair something yourself and if you do
any traveling what do you do when something fails two hundred miles from
home.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RFID chip implants solidly linked to animal tumors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83d5e5a23ae06286?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:44 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:45 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

On Sep 9, 3:58 am, bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
> According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these chip implants
> are not only safe, they will save lives by allowing the human bearer to
> effortlessly carry his entire medical history around with him wherever
> he goes. Indeed, the FDA assurances sound almost *exactly* like the chip
> manufacturer's sales literature, but with the added ring of "authority".
> The chips were enthusiastically endorsed by the agency during the Bush
> appointment of Tommy Thompson, Republican from Wisconsin, working in
> concert with Jim Sennsenbrenner, Republican Congressman also from
> Wisconsin, who also peddled the chips his so-called "Real I.D." Act (HR
> 418).
>
> So why won't the FDA divulge to the press exactly *which* studies it
> reviewed to make this assessment? What's the big secret, FDA? Is it that
> a Federal Agency obligated to protect the American people has happily,
> blithely approved a passive surveillance device which is now shown to
> nourish malignent cell growth in microchipped animals? I wonder if
> Thompson and Sennsenbrenner have had their pets or children injected
> with these things?
>
> <http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYssebw3_FRuof2bdR1YdCo8OgXA>

They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:53 pm
From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas)

> They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

Already common practice, particularly in disasters such as Katrina.
--

-- mejeep deMeep ferret!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What ever happened to Ebay's unsold item credit?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccba27ea7be6064d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:34 pm
From: Derald

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>What happened to this?
I suspect "nothing". Such a rebate certainly never existed within
the time that I've been ebaying (since 1999). Makes no sense, at all.
--
HTH,
Derald

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:44 pm
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
>getting either a listing credit or final value credit.
>
> What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
>"credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
>more money, and is not a true credit.
>
>
>
>
If the item does not sell, the seller can relist a second time, but they
are charged a listing fee that depends on the new starting price. If
the item sells on the second attempt (when priced equal to lower than
the original auction) eBay will refund the second listing fee. If a
buyer reneges on the second listing, you can not relist it again with a
refund. If you do, eBay treats it as a new auction. However, I'm not
sure if such an auction will get a second listing refund.

The relisting price must be equal to lower than the original price or
else they charge a full fee with no reimbursement if it sells. Again,
I'm not sure if that's treated as a new auction for relisting privileges.

Bottom line is that it's NOT really a credit. It's a refund of a second
listing fee, provided the auction sells on the second listing.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:08 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

> I suspect "nothing". Such a rebate certainly never existed within> the
> time that I've been ebaying (since 1999). Makes no sense, at all.

I was selling things on Yahoo auctions and Ebay from 1995 or 1996.
Originally, it was completely free on Ebay, then they started charging a
listing fee. I believe they would refund the fee if the item didn't sell.

This was back when they were under a lot of pressure from Yahoo auctions.
YA was offering their auctions completely free - no listing fee, no final
value fees. Ebay couldn't really raise their fees with that kind of
competition. However, Yahoo made the mistake of starting to charge a 10
cent listing fee, skipping the 5 cent mark completely, and lots of people
went back over to Ebay. After that, Yahoo went back to free, but it was too
late. Then Ebay had the field to itself, pretty much, and the fee hikes
started.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:11 pm
From:

In article <fc11p5$6el$1@aioe.org>, none@none.net says...
> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
> getting either a listing credit or final value credit.

I've only been on eBay since 1998, but to the best of my recollection,
the relisting credit hasn't changed much. If you list an item and it
doesn't sell, then if you relist it, you get credit for the second
listing fee if the item sells. I don't remember that changing.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tomato paste
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bf6768d86eb5418f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:54 pm
From: jes

It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.

So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
hamburger size patties. And froze.

One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
in the freezer.

I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
cheap!

Joan

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:07 pm
From: Beeblebrox

jes wrote:
> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>
> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>
> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
> in the freezer.
>
> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
> cheap!
>
> Joan
>

i'm thinking ice trays might be easier to do large batches next time. I
know the food shows suggest them for lots of things. Freeze in the
trays, they pop into a ziplock. No idea if it leaves a taste in the ice
tray.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:37 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 5:54 pm, jes <jesmith...@msn.com> wrote:
> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>
> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>
> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
> in the freezer.
>
> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
> cheap!
>
> Joan

The 6oz. cans of paste are 33¢ at ALDIs and Sav-A-Lot. Still, $2/# is
much cheaper. That's a lot of work to part out a gallon of tomato
paste and spend the cost and space of freezing it. I'm real careful in
saving tomato products too because of bacterial growth.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When news media whine about 'labor shortages' it simply means employers
don't want to pay existing workers as much
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c75d3f8f8d3003a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:58 pm
From:

Overheard an interesting conversation on labor shortages this morning
while waiting for a ferry -- a man complaining that they'd tried to hire
only legal labor for picking a short-season harvest, but even at
$18/hour (plus overtime) they had not been able to get field labor
willing to work hard 7 days a week for three weeks to get it out of the
fields while it was still good.

They gave up and called a crew boss who was known to hire illegal
workers, and had the field full in no time.

He figured that by subcontracting, the workers couldn't be getting more
than $12 of that $18, and probably weren't getting overtime pay, but he
needed to get the broccoli in before it bolted. But he couldn't find
legal workers for a thousand a week, and couldn't afford to pay more
than that for harvest labor.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:02 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <MPG.214e287899ee3fc3989798@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
josh@phred.org wrote:
>Overheard an interesting conversation on labor shortages this morning
>while waiting for a ferry -- a man complaining that they'd tried to hire
>only legal labor for picking a short-season harvest, but even at
>$18/hour (plus overtime) they had not been able to get field labor
>willing to work hard 7 days a week for three weeks to get it out of the
>fields while it was still good.
>
>They gave up and called a crew boss who was known to hire illegal
>workers, and had the field full in no time.
>
>He figured that by subcontracting, the workers couldn't be getting more
>than $12 of that $18, and probably weren't getting overtime pay, but he
>needed to get the broccoli in before it bolted. But he couldn't find
>legal workers for a thousand a week, and couldn't afford to pay more
>than that for harvest labor.

What time of the year was that? If this happens between second week of
May and the week before Labor Day, try advertising the job in the
University City section of Philadelphia. I suspect there are at least a
dozen or two similar areas elsewhere in the USA.
For that matter, one of the universities in Philadelphia's "University
City" has its fall quarter starting after Labor Day, since its summer
quarter is finishing up finals on the Saturday of Labor Day weekend - a
couple thousand incoming freshmen free to pick brocolli into the first
full week of September to get some badly needed money if that's when it
has to be picked.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you like paying for air? (food packages)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/af114586924248d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:03 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
full 16 ounces - a pound.

Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size of
the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags look
the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half what you
did a few years ago.

The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items - graham
crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now it is 14
ounces, and there is empty space in the box.

Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
intelligence is being insulted.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:31 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 8:03 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
> bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
> ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
> full 16 ounces - a pound.
>
> Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
> price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size of
> the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags look
> the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half what you
> did a few years ago.
>
> The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items - graham
> crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now it is 14
> ounces, and there is empty space in the box.
>
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.

The same one pound box of graham crackers is available for $1 at the
dollar store, Sav-A-Lot, and Wal-Mart. You can still select a 1# bag
of potato chips. Just look for the proper sized bag and buy that
instead of a lesser weight bag. This is not brain surgery.
Better yet, why not buy 15# of potatoes for $2.99 and make your own
healthy chips?
Surely, nobody would try to insult your intelligence.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:36 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

OhioGuy wrote:
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
> bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
> ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
> full 16 ounces - a pound.
...
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.

Whenever the question is "Why do they do this?" the answers are usually
money or sex. Sex doesn't apply to corporations so you're left with only
money.

They do it because it makes them money.

Shrinking product sizes have been around ever since they started to
package foods. Don't worry too much about it though. In a little bit
they'll announce a new 'Jumbo' sized package with the original 16 oz.

I'm not even going to touch the intelligence insulting. If you even
glance at most adverts you'll quickly realize that they believe the
consumer as the IQ and long term memory of a goldfish. What passes
for most comedy these days is even more insulting to your IQ.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE INDIVIDUAL IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS "KANGA" AND "KANGAROOISTAN" IS A
CONVICTED PEDOPHILE & REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER IN AUSTRALIA
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9244ea99729ff20f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:44 pm
From: johnvonlaws@hotmail.com

On Sep 10, 12:56 am, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
> counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
> UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.
>
> Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
> run-down shack in the Australia outback.
>
> If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
> local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
> Investigations, Interpol.
>
> LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
> FROM OUR CHILDREN.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Sunday, September 9, 2007

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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