Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: INVESTIGATE FIRST: The Dirty Dozen
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ce44cd864bffc1f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:44 pm
From: DevBasic Marketing Support

On Sep 30, 7:27 pm, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
wrote:
> DevBasic Marketing wrote:
> >The Paycheck Today online application is fast and confidential.
> >Simply provide us with the required information about yourself,
> >your income, and your bank checking account.
>
> Can there really be anyone left on earth who would fall for this scam?

It is very important to do proper investigation before applying for a
payday loan. We only recommend them if you have a need and have no
other resources available. It's also import that those interested in
establishing a payday loan understand what the process entails.

Bellow is an excellent post that helps new comers to the internet
become aware of what a scam will most likely look like. Many of the
programs that we are promoting through our organization are affiliate
programs and the websites are focused on lead development for other
business owners.

In all cases the programs we promote are trials and give you a chance
to evaluate the service. With our financial services website, we work
with only reputable programs and other internet marketer to provide a
professional presentation and experience for our visitors.

We monitor our email for any questions regarding our website
properties hourly and provide timely responses to inquires. Members of
the website are able to communicate directly with the owner or
promoter of the program and can ask questions. They also have the
chance to click the link and go directly to the website for more
details. Any questions regarding "our website" located at
http://www.illinois.devbasic.com and the programs found there can be
emailed to us or you can call us directly toll free.

The post below is an excellent example of a group member posting
useful information to properly prepare anyone interested in conducting
business on the internet. I'm sure that Logan Shaw and George Grapman
mean well in their
attempt to give their view of the payday loan system and their
feedback both positive and negative is welcome.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Dirty Dozen
The FTC has identified its "Dirty Dozen". These are the twelve scams
most likely to arrive via bulk e-mail or in newsgroups. Here are the
"dirty dozen" and a brief explanation of why each is a scam:

Business Opportunities Scams:
These offers make it sound like it is very easy to start a business
that will earn piles of money without much work, selling or cash. Many
of these "opportunities" are actually illegal pyramid schemes or
frauds that are masquerading as legitimate opportunities to earn
money.

Make Money by Sending Bulk E-mail:
These solicitations offer to sell you bulk e mail lists (consisting of
millions of e mail addresses), spam software (usually very poor in
quality), or services to send spam on your behalf. Don't do this.

Chain Letters:
No list of scams would be complete without this old "favorite" - e
mail style. Here you're asked to send a small amount of money (or some
item) to each of four or five names at the top of the list, and then
forward the message including your name at the bottom, via bulk e
mail. Many of these letters claim they are legal - they are not.
Further, nearly everyone who participates in these chain letters loses
money. Even if there is a "product" such as a report on how to make
money, it does not make these schemes legal.

Work-At-Home-Schemes:
The most common work-at-home scam promises that you'll earn money for
stuffing envelopes. For example, you're promised you'll earn $2.00 for
every envelope you stuff. In fact, there never is any real envelope
stuffing employment available. Instead, you pay to register and then
you're instructed to send the same envelope-stuffing ad via bulk e
mail to others. The only money you can earn would come from others who
fall for the scam and pay to register. Finally, if you did actually do
work for one of these outfits (for example, some promise to pay you
for craft work), they'd refuse to pay you and say your work didn't
measure up to their "quality standards."

Health And Diet Scams:
These are similar to the miracle cures offered off-line: ways to lose
weight without eating less or exercising, "scientific breakthroughs,"
"secret formulas" which provide cures for hair loss, and herbal
formulas that liquefy fat cells so that they are absorbed by your
body. These scams often include testimonials from "famous" medical
experts you haven't heard of. Of course, these gimmicks don't work.

Effortless Income:
The newest version offers get-rich-quick schemes to make unlimited
profits exchanging money on the world currency markets. There are lots
of variants, but they all promise vast riches with no work. Beware of
these scams.

Free Goods:
These offers promise expensive items such as computers... for free.
They ask you to pay a fee to join, and then you have to bring in a
certain number of other members. Many of these scams are just
disguised pyramid schemes.

Investment Opportunities:
These scams promise outrageously high returns...and of course, there
is "no risk." Many of these scams are illegal Ponzi schemes, in which
early investors are paid with the money from later investors. This
gives the early investors the illusion that the system works and they
are then encouraged to invest more money (which they eventually lose).
The sales pitches for these offers include claims of high-level
financial connections, that the promoters are privy to inside
information, or promises that they'll guarantee the investment. The
promoters are long gone if you try to take advantage of their
"guarantees."

Cable De-Scrambler Kits:
These scams offer kits or information on how to receive cable
transmissions without paying any subscription fees. There are two
problems with these offers: 1) the kits and information don't work;
and 2) even if they did work, it is illegal to steal service from
cable television companies. Further, many cable companies have
aggressively been prosecuting cable service theft.

Guaranteed Loans or Credit, or Easy Terms Scams:
There are lots of variants of this scam: home equity loans that don't
require any equity in your home, loans regardless of your credit
history, offshore bank loans, credit cards regardless of your credit
history, etc. Sometimes these offers are combined with pyramid schemes
that offer to pay you for attracting other participants to the scheme.
However, they are scams - the loans don't come through, you are turned
down unless you meet stringent requirements, or the credit cards
simply don't arrive.

Credit Repair Scams:
These scams promise to erase accurate negative information from your
credit file so that you can now qualify for loans, mortgages, or
credit cards. The promoters of these scams cannot deliver. Further, if
you follow their advice and lie on a loan or credit application,
misrepresent your Social Security number, or get an Employer
Identification number from the Internal Revenue Service under false
pretenses, you will be committing fraud and violating federal laws.
Don't fall for this scam.

Vacation Prize Promotions:
Last, but not least, is a scam in which you receive electronic
verification congratulating you because you've "won" a fabulous
vacation, or you've been "specially selected" for this opportunity.
The "deluxe cruise ship" may well be more like a tugboat, upgrades can
be very expensive, and hotel accommodations are likely to be very
shabby.

The punch line... which you've heard from us many times before... If
it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Further, don't buy
anything via bulk e-mail (spam). Your chances of being scammed are
astronomical.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:13 pm
From: clams casino

DevBasic Marketing Support wrote:

>On Sep 30, 7:27 pm, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>DevBasic Marketing wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The Paycheck Today online application is fast and confidential.
>>>Simply provide us with the required information about yourself,
>>>your income, and your bank checking account.
>>>
>>>
>>Can there really be anyone left on earth who would fall for this scam?
>>
>>
>
>
>.. If
>it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Further, don't buy
>anything via bulk e-mail (spam). Your chances of being scammed are
>astronomical.
>
>
>

You last paragraph says it all.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:37 pm
From: Adam Funk

On 2007-10-11, Alan Truism wrote:

> One of my co-workers has decided to stop flushing the urinal in order to
> address the problems presented by a local drought.
>
> I'm all for water conservation, but I don't really care to get his piss on
> me from urinal splash back. I now have to flush both before and after I pee.
>
> As a result, I have resorted to carrying around a bottle of red
> food coloring in my pocket. Whenever I go to the bathroom I drop enough
> of the dye in the urinal to make it look like someone filled the bowl
> with bloody urine.
>
> I've been doing it for a couple of days now. I am hoping that eventually he
> is going to break down and and start flushing, simply for fear of catching
> the clap.
>
> I know it is grossing him out because I overheard him mention the bloody
> urine to someone in the hall this afternoon. If he doesn't start flushing
> soon, however, I am going to have to find some synthetic gleet.

Have you seen the MASH episode where the zany doctors turn a competing
unit's star player's urine blue?

--
"Hey Myron, I'm a lawyer!"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:46 pm
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47110e59$0$20615$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5nabtmFh94b9U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>
>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>> that.
>>
>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>
>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>
>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to deal
>>>> with.
>>
>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>
>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of the
>> problem.
>>
>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>
>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a long
>> time now.
>>
>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>
>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>> problem.
>>
>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can possibly
>>>>>> sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they can.
>>
>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually dramatically
>>>>>>> improve the lives of their citizens.
>>
>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are MUCH
>>>>>> better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave china.
>>
>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to forcibly
>>>>>>> change the government in Mexico.
>>
>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>
>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>
>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>>
>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of their
>>> birth rate.
>>
>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>
>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>>
>
> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes. Do you for a
> second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the United States,
> that this country could not have absorbed that rate?
>
>>> While some countries have not.
>>
>> Like the entire third world, which just happens
>> to be where the illegals are mostly coming from.
>
> Well, I do not know if I would clasify Mexico as a third world country,
> but it may be. When I think of third world countries I think of places
> like Africa. But regardless, if you look at the problems that all third
> world countries have, they have sone things in common. They all have
> incompetent governments, who cannot seem to adopt polices or don't want to
> adopt policies, which would actually make the lives of the people in their
> countries much better. Africa seems to have another major problem, they
> don't seem to be able to produce enough food for their population. You
> can abosorb as many people as you want, "if" you can figure out how to
> provide your people with what are the necessities in life.
>>
Like most African countries that threw off colonial rule the first thing
they did was throw the whites off the farms that fed the country for
centuries. And put on the plantations their cronies who didn't know anything
about farming. Hence crop failures and any means of supporting those African
economies.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>
>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>>
>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to
>>>>> deal with.
>>>
>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>>
>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of
>>> the problem.
>>>
>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>>
>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a
>>> long time now.
>>>
>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they
>>>>>>> can.
>>>
>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>>>
>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are
>>>>>>> MUCH better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave
>>>>>>> china.
>>>
>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>>>
>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>>
>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>>
>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living
>>>>> standards.
>>>
>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>>> their birth rate.
>>>
>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>>
>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem,
>>> that STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that
>>> illegally.
>>
>> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes. Do you
>> for a second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the United
>> States, that this country could not have absorbed that rate?
>>
>>>> While some countries have not.
>>>
>>> Like the entire third world, which just happens
>>> to be where the illegals are mostly coming from.
>>
>> Well, I do not know if I would clasify Mexico as a third world
>> country, but it may be. When I think of third world countries I
>> think of places like Africa. But regardless, if you look at the
>> problems that all third world countries have, they have sone things
>> in common. They all have incompetent governments, who cannot seem
>> to adopt polices or don't want to adopt policies, which would
>> actually make the lives of the people in their countries much
>> better. Africa seems to have another major problem, they don't seem
>> to be able to produce enough food for their population. You can
>> abosorb as many people as you want, "if" you can figure out how to
>> provide your people with what are the necessities in life.

> Like most African countries that threw off colonial rule the first thing they did was throw the whites off the farms
> that fed the country for centuries.

That never happened that quickly. It often took decades before that happened much.

> And put on the plantations their cronies who didn't know anything about farming.

And neither did that much either.

> Hence crop failures and any means of supporting those African economies.

The real problem was the hordes of kids they produced.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:57 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5nabtmFh94b9U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>
>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>> that.
>>
>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>
>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>
>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to
>>>> deal with.
>>
>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>
>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of
>> the problem.
>>
>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>
>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a
>> long time now.
>>
>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>
>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>> problem.
>>
>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they
>>>>>> can.
>>
>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>>
>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are
>>>>>> MUCH better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave
>>>>>> china.
>>
>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>>
>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>
>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>
>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>>
>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>> their birth rate.
>>
>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>
>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>>
>>> While some countries have not.
>>
>> Like the entire third world, which just happens
>> to be where the illegals are mostly coming from.
>>
>>>>>> And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.
>>
>>>>> No one can say it will not work in Iraq.
>>
>>>> Corse anyone with a clue can say that.
>>
>>> Only someone who knows what will happen in the futrre can do that.
>>
>> Wrong. Its perfectly possible to notice that full civil war doesnt
>> just stop by
>> itself and that what the US is doing in Iraq isnt going to stop it
>> any time soon.
>>
>>>>> All we can say is that it is not working yet.
>>
>>>> And it wont, you watch. Replacing the govt produced the inevitable
>>>> result, a full civil war, and those dont just go away by wishing
>>>> that would happen.
>>
>>>> Some have lasted for hundreds of years effectively, like with
>>>> Ireland.
>>>
>>> Yep, and there is no civil war in Ireland now, because the english
>>> did not give up.
>>
>> Nope, because the Irish eventually came to their senses, after
>> CENTURYS. There isnt a shred of evidence that the stupid rag heads
>> in Iraq will be giving up on their civil war any time soon.

> If you can get the government of Mexico to get rid of most of their govt run companies and free up that economy we
> wouldn't have to build a fence.

Fantasy. The chinese have gone that route and there are STILL hordes of
chinese that would move to any first world country that would have them.

> Build the Fence!

They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:58 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>
>>>>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem
>>>>> but until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I
>>>>> will do my
>>>>> damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>>> done
>>>>> at all."
>>>>
>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
>>>> can tell
>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to
>>>> hear about
>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to
>>> the boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't
>>> have a solution to the problem.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either,
>> so telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the
>> other hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off
>> the assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile"
>> and you had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have
>> not only pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from
>> happening. Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is
>> not bad to point out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you
>> poitned out a problem and had a proposed solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you
>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>> solving the
>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE
>>>> has to come
>>>> up with a solution.
>>>
>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in
>>> this thread.
>>
>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no
>> society has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what
>> they want to do. People enter this country illegally because they
>> believe they have a shot a living a better life here than where they
>> come from. So, if you do not address that dynamic, then nothing
>> else you do will work.
>>>
>>> Solutions:
>>>
>>>
>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>> down by everyone.
>>
>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>
>>
>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you
>> may stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you
>> will NEVER stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake
>> of discussion, let us for the moment assume that we can stop all
>> businesses from hiring illegals. Will that work? No, it won't
>> work. If you were in this country illegally, what you would do is
>> work the underground economy, so all you have succeeded in doing is
>> driving them to work in the underground economy, and then you have
>> just made the job of finding them that much harder, if not
>> impossible.
>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens
>>> that they encounter.
>>
>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>
>>> Deport those that are found
>>
>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and
>> re-enter this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious
>> about providing them with a incentive not to enter this country
>> illegally, let them spend some time in prison. And if they come
>> back into this country illegally again, put them in prison for a
>> longer period of time. That alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>
>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely
>>> with satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like,
>>> we can make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In
>>> fact, this would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can
>>> secure the borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be
>>> coming in to Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in
>>> short order.
>>
>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of
>> water surrounding the United States, and there is the northern
>> border which is open.

> But where is the fence?
> It works in Israel.

And wouldnt work with Mexico.

There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>
>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>> choice?)
>>>
>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>
>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
>>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
>>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>
> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
> a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
> in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.

They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:46 pm
From: "ChairMan"

In news:1192301578.122797.74120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
unreelistuk@aol.com <user132384@aol.com>spewed forth:
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.
>
>
> Jeez............

Well, shit then, we outta make a law against that so you don't get
nauseated.
Your life must be awfully good if that's all you got to worry about

Jeez...................

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:53 pm
From: George

unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.
>
>
> Jeez............
>
Thats mainly because the people who install them get paid next to
nothing so they usually take the simplest route. Although sometimes
siting leaves the front as the only usable.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 12:59 pm
From: George

Gary Heston wrote:
> In article <1192301578.122797.74120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> unreelistuk@aol.com <user132384@aol.com> wrote:
>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>> them.
>
> They have to be facing a certain direction; if that's the direction
> the house faces, that's where the dish has to go. I suspect the
> installation kit has a fairly short cable, which further limits the
> subscribers' options.
>
> Doing something fancy like a backyard pole-mounted installation can
> be expensive, and is usually beyond the capability of the average
> subscriber.
>
>
> Gary
>

All of the dishes are company installed now. The installers only get a
small standardized fee to do an install. The installer has spools of
cable and just makes what is necessary up to 100'. If you want better
you pretty much have to have the site ready when the installer shows up.
I just helped a family member do that. We set a pipe in the side yard by
some shrubs and buried plastic conduit to the house.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:10 pm
From: clams casino

Don K wrote:

>"unreelistuk@aol.com" <user132384@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1192301578.122797.74120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>>I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>them.
>>
>>
>>Jeez............
>>
>>
>
>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
>
>Architectural beauty has been achieved through the ages using simple
>geometric shapes such as the Golden Rectangle, circle, parabola, etc.
>
>A hundred fifty years ago it was the fad to clutter things up with
>gingerbread, which is probably the architectural equivalent of
>planting flamingo statues on the front lawn.
>
>At least the dish is based on a parabolic shape and is elegant
>in its functional beauty and simplicity.
>
>Don
>
>
>
>
Isn't it the WV state flower?

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:13 pm
From: George Grapman

They have to aimed at a point 22,300 miles above the equator with no
obstructions.
>
> Doing something fancy like a backyard pole-mounted installation can
> be expensive, and is usually beyond the capability of the average
> subscriber.
>
>
> Gary
>

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:42 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.

As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
match the style of the house.

> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.

A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
these days.

On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
these dishes any color or pattern you like. Perhaps a gingerbread
pattern would help it blend in. I know in some communities they force
the homeowners to build fancy 'bird houses' for these things.

Anthony

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:59 pm
From: George Grapman

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> match the style of the house.
>
>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>> them.
>
> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> these days.
>
> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> these dishes any color or pattern you like. Perhaps a gingerbread
> pattern would help it blend in. I know in some communities they force
> the homeowners to build fancy 'bird houses' for these things.
>
> Anthony

We had a few customers who got 12 foot mesh dishes rather than ten
foot solid for the sake of appearance. Local governments actually have
very little power to regulate dishes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't drain bathwater...use for flushing toliet and brushing teeth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faea6b5dfaf6a24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:24 pm
From: Shadowland

Our fresh water supply is under threat !

An easy way to conserve water is to use your used bath water to flush
the toliet.
I'm mean heck, the tub and toliet are right next to each other
anyhow, right ?
Just have a bucket handy and there you go.

And at the beginning of you bath/shower, why not brush your teeth in
that clean water ?

If you use a pure soap like Ivory, you may also use the water to
water your plants with.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:32 pm
From: Shadowland

I forgot to mention that during the cold season, bath water should
definately not be drained.
There's a lot of heat in that water that will help heat your house.
Also that humidity is good in the winter for warmth.

At least keep the water until it's cold.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:39 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Shadowland <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Our fresh water supply is under threat !

Mine isnt.

> An easy way to conserve water is to use your used bath water to flush the toliet.
> I'm mean heck, the tub and toliet are right next to each other anyhow, right ?

Mine arent. And I dont even have a bath, I have a shower instead.

> Just have a bucket handy and there you go.

Wont work for me.

> And at the beginning of you bath/shower, why not brush your teeth in that clean water ?

Dont bother to brush my teeth.

> If you use a pure soap like Ivory, you may also use the water to water your plants with.

Dont have any plants.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Empty 2 liter pop bottles excellent for keeping food in
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/84944fe20369a1e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:29 pm
From: Shadowland

I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
etc in and place these on
top of my refrigerator.
The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
superior to the original containers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.NIKES4wholesale.com ) jordan wholesale manufacturers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b5876947d16f2b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:31 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

Aug 1st,2007
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free to contact us.
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/030cd360afce9f13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:32 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:33 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.nikes4wholesale.com ) Jordan's + Wholesale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2250b5ef779f5296?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:33 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

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Sneakers,Wholesale Handbags Sneakers,Wholesale Purses,Wholesale
Sandals,
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shox nz,Nike shox r4,Nike shox ride,Nike shox turbo,nike shox
monster,nike airmax,Nike Air
max tn plus,Nike air max 90,Nike air max 95, Nike air max 97,Nike air
max 2003,Nike air max 2004,Nike air max 2006,Nike air rift.

Dear sir or madam,
we accept paypal We are the one of the biggest suppliers in China for
shoes and
clothing our website:1.http://www.nikekickcoo.com MSN&E-
mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com and linda10226@yahoo.com &We sell all
kinds of brand shoes,as belows,
&Nike:Shox(TN,TL,NZ,oz,R3,R4,Turbo,Ride)//max James(1-4)//Dunk//
Kobe//
Jordan(1-22)//Airforce1//&Adidas:TMC//Coloradidas//Goodyear&Puma///
Gucci///Prade///Timberland///Bapestar/// &&We also sell brand
clothes,
we sell many kinds of clothes,as below: bape,
bbc,arfuldodger,coogi,LRG ,evisu,lacoste,polo,adhardy.LRG,abercrombie,replay ,seven,citizenso,humanity,antik,rock&republic..... ..
all of our products are with Original box, card, label, No matter
where you are in the world, you can order all these goods in very
minimum quantity and receive it very and fast and safety. Pls feel
free to contact us.
hongfeng trade co,.ltd www.nikekickcoo.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:38 pm
From: Shadowland

If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
place containers of water into the empty areas.
Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
cooled again.
With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
there's less air that needs to be cooled.
That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.

With a filled refrig you'll find your frig saving energy.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 1:53 pm
From: "Don K"

"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> cooled again.
> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>

How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
air slower than containers of water.

Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?

Don

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Saturday, October 13, 2007

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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