Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

Saturday, October 13, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:00 pm
From: Shadowland

On Oct 13, 4:53 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:

> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> air slower than containers of water.
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?

Yes any of these will work.

However I'll add that should you have a power outage, containers of
cold water will keep your food cool longer than those others you
mention.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:19 pm
From: George

Don K wrote:
> "Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>> cooled again.
>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>
> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> air slower than containers of water.
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> Don
>
>
How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:14 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:53 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> "Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> > place containers of water into the empty areas.
> > Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> > refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> > cooled again.
> > With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> > there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> > That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
>
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> Don

Right Don. Who doesn't have a stock of old 6CA7,EL34,6BQ5/
EL84,6L6,6K6,5881,6V6,and KT66 tubes around? The packages tend to get
real soggy though.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Shadowland <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> cooled again.
> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> With a filled refrig you'll find your frig saving energy.

You'll actually find that you save so little energy that it doesnt
even save as much as cooling that water down does.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:40 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:19 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Don K wrote:
> > "Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> >> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> >> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> >> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> >> cooled again.
> >> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> >> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> >> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> > How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> > Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> > air slower than containers of water.
>
> > Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> > Don
>
> How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
> that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.- Hide quoted text -

Why buckets? We just use Cool Whip by itself.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:48 pm
From: Abe

>"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>> cooled again.
>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>
>How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
>Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
>air slower than containers of water.
>
>Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
>Don
>
I think you need something with mass. Water or bricks, or Gel packs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:11 pm
From: Shadowland

When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
local economy also.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/030cd360afce9f13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:27 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:32 pm, polly...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Aug 1st,2007
> Dear sir or madam,
> we accept paypal We are the one of the biggest suppliers in China for
> shoes and
> clothing our website:1.http://www.nikekickcoo.comMSN&E-
> mail:linda.c...@hotmail.com and linda10...@yahoo.com &We sell all
> kinds of brand shoes,as belows,

> all of our products are with Original box, card, label, No matter
> where you are in the world, you can order all these goods in very
> minimum quantity and receive it very and fast and safety. Pls feel
> free to contact us.
>

Interesting how so many top brands come from the same factory.
Somebody is busy printing "Original" labels over there.
I've been seeking some new Formosa Flyers like there were here in the
70's. Folks, these back alley or garage operations have us outnumbered.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Empty 2 liter pop bottles excellent for keeping food in
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/84944fe20369a1e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:34 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:29 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
> etc in and place these on
> top of my refrigerator.
> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
> superior to the original containers.

Right. And who doesn't have all day to pour rice through a funnel into
a tiny hole?
Transparent is not always great for food storage either, but in this
case it could be an advantage. You can watch the small bugs crawling
around in your meal.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:49 pm
From: Abe

>On Oct 13, 4:29 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
>> etc in and place these on
>> top of my refrigerator.
>> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
>> superior to the original containers.
>
>Right. And who doesn't have all day to pour rice through a funnel into
>a tiny hole?
>Transparent is not always great for food storage either, but in this
>case it could be an advantage. You can watch the small bugs crawling
>around in your meal.
All day? Try 15 seconds.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> match the style of the house.
>
>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>> them.
>
> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> these days.
>
> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> these dishes any color or pattern you like.

Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

> Perhaps a gingerbread pattern would help it blend in. I know in some communities they force the homeowners to build
> fancy 'bird houses' for these things.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:43 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> >> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> >> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> > As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> > installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> > appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> > match the style of the house.
>
> >> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> >> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> >> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> >> them.
>
> > A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> > things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> > be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> > these days.
>
> > On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> > these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

No they're not.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:01 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > > unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> > >> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> > >> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> > > As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> > > installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> > > appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> > > match the style of the house.
>
> > >> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> > >> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> > >> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> > >> them.
>
> > > A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> > > things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> > > be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> > > these days.
>
> > > On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> > > these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> > Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

> No they're not

Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
>>> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
>>> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
>>> match the style of the house.
>>
>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>>> them.
>>
>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
>>> things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
>>> be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
>>> these days.
>>
>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
>>> these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>>
>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
> No they're not.

Yes they are.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the
>>>> underpaid installers to choose the location. These installers
>>>> don't care about appearances. This is the same reason that the
>>>> trash cans hardly ever match the style of the house.
>>
>>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>>>> them.
>>
>>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the
>>>> ugliest things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially
>>>> ugly, only to be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are
>>>> sprouting up like weeds these days.
>>
>>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can
>>>> paint these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>>
>>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
>> No they're not
>
> Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.

Which has a metallised surface. Wont work if it doesnt.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:11 pm
From: "Lou"

"unreelistuk@aol.com" <user132384@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1192301578.122797.74120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.
>

Right. If you for whatever reason live in an older house, you have to claim
to the amenities and benefits of the present day. Those people should have
the heat from wood burning fireplaces, no indoor plumbing, and probably
should be reading in the evening by the light of whale oil lamps. Of
course, whale oil is a little hard to come by these days, so instead they
should just go to bed early.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't drain bathwater...use for flushing toliet and brushing teeth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faea6b5dfaf6a24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:45 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:24 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Our fresh water supply is under threat !
>
> An easy way to conserve water is to use your used bath water to flush
> the toliet.
> I'm mean heck, the tub and toliet are right next to each other
> anyhow, right ?
> Just have a bucket handy and there you go.
>
> And at the beginning of you bath/shower, why not brush your teeth in
> that clean water ?
>
> If you use a pure soap like Ivory, you may also use the water to
> water your plants with.

How about attaching a marine bilge pump to the side of the toilet tank
and running a line to the tub? Then just fill the toilet as needed.
You could carefully drill a hole in the side of the tub to run a hose
there and eliminate the bucket brigade.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:50 pm
From: Audie Murphy's Ghost

In article <BJOdnWmJUqLIgozanZ2dnUVZ_quhnZ2d@comcast.com>, Rick
<videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:

> Build the Fence!

That's exactly what Nikita Khrushchev said, and look how well *that*
worked out.

I guess they knew what they were doing when they named them the "red
states."

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:05 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <47110f45$0$20629$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-5F30CC.19540512102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <470fc3af$0$32517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-995849.19110211102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >
> >> >> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
> >> >> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
> >> >> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
> >> >>
> >> >> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?
> >> >
> >> > Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for something
> >> > else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the problem is
> >> > no
> >> > worse than it was before.
> >>
> >> But you haven't solved the problem then have you?
> >
> > Haven't made it worse, either, and the federal government gets the
> > benefit of saving a few billion dollars.
>
> The Federal government NEVER saves money. Whatever money they do not spend
> in one area, they spend in another area. It is like one of my wifes
> favorite saying when she comes home from a day of shopping. "See how much
> money I saved" by buying these things on sale?
> >
> > Besides, the states and cities are so chronically addicted to federal
> > money if the federal government cut it off, you'd see every one of these
> > sanctuary policies dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in the blink of
> > an eye. These mayors and city councilmen would have riots on their hands
> > if they suddenly had to either drastically cut city services or hike
> > taxes through the roof to make up for the shortfall in their budgets
> > where the federal money used to be.
>
> Do you for a second believe that the elected members of Congress from these
> states are going to go along with that idea?

You keep falling back on that as if it somehow saves your argument. I
stated from the beginning that the main problem is the lack of political
will to do anything about illegal immigration. You then took issue with
me and challenged me to come up with some solutions. Now every time I
come up with something that *would* work if implemented, you respond by
telling me there's no political will to do it-- which is exactly what I
said to begin with.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:06 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:

> > Build the Fence!
>
> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.

The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
soil, the law says they get to stay.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:07 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
> >> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
> >> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
> >> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
> >> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
> >> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
> >>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
> >>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
> >>>> sun for their wages.
> >>>
> >>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
> >>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
> >>> choice?)
> >>>
> >>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
> >>> prices a few cents per pound.
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
> >>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
> >>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
> >>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
> >>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
> >>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
> >>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
> >>>
> > Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
> > a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
> > in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>
> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.

And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents should be a
felony.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but
>>>>>> is happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>>> choice?)
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces
>>>>> produce prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of
>>>>> illegal aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what
>>>>> would be LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices.
>>>>> With so many illegals around growers have little reason to
>>>>> further automate.
>>>>>
>>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You
>>> want a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any
>>> business in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>>
>> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>
> And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents should be a felony.

Wont stop them.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:29 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nciueFgo8o6U1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>>> that.
>
>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>
>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to deal
>>>>> with.
>
>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>
>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of the
>>> problem.
>
>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>
>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a long
>>> time now.
>
>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>>> problem.
>
>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they can.
>
>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>
>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are MUCH
>>>>>>> better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave china.
>
>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>
>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>
>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>
>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>
>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>
>>> Nope.
>
>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>>> their birth rate.
>
>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>
>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>
>> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes.
>
> Nope, just rubbing your nose in the FACT that while ever there is such
> a gross difference in the living standards between the worst of the third
> world and the US, there will inevitably be hordes that are prepared to
> risk even the death of their kids to move to the US and that your proposal
> for a jail that consists of tents in the desert isnt going to make any
> real
> difference deterrence wise when they are prepared to take that sort of
> risk.

Are you going to argue that it would not be a better tactic to throw these
people in jail and to increase the prison time they have to spend in jail,
every other time they are caught in this country illegally, that would not
have an effect on their "decision" to enter this country illegally, and that
it would not deter some from trying? And why don't you think putting them
into tent cities would not work, when the facts seem to indicate otherwise.
Look at the re-incarciration rate of the city in Arizona, where the
prisoners are put into tent cities.
>
> Even the sort of gung ho approach to jails that the chinese
> have STILL doesnt have any real effect on the North Koreans
> prepared to risk death for a better standard of living.
>
>> Do you for a second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the
>> United States, that this country could not have absorbed that rate?
>
> Corse it could, but it clearly chooses not to let anyone
> who wants to move to the US to do that anymore.

Who is "forcing" people not to do that?
>
>
>> When I think of third world countries I think of places like Africa. But
>> regardless, if you look at the problems that all third world countries
>> have, they have sone things in common.
>
> And the most obvious difference they have in common is MUCH lower
> standards of living, particularly for the dregs of their society in their
> slums etc. And that is what is driving the hordes of illegals that have
> decided that their economic prospects are MUCH better in the US.

Which is the problem. We are trying to stop people who for their own
selfish needs, want to leave the country of their birth.
>
> Its what drives North Koreans into china too.

Yep
>
>> They all have incompetent governments, who cannot seem to
>> adopt polices or don't want to adopt policies, which would actually
>> make the lives of the people in their countries much better.
>
> The VERY fundamental problem is that while ever the birth rate is so
> much greater than economy can ever provide decent living standards
> for, there is nothing any govt can actually do about that policy wise.

I do not agree with you. India had a major problem with feeding their
people a number of decades ago. The Rockerfeller Foundation came up with a
way for the country to raise hybrid rice, that would grow in India. India
embraced this new hybrid rice. India who use to be a net importer of rice,
is now (or at least was when the new hybrid rice was used became
self-reliant and no longer needed to import rice).
>
> And even when a particular govt does adopt an extremely gung
> ho approach to that problem like the chinese did, with what is
> essentially compulsory abortion when you already have one brat,
> that STILL doesnt produce living standards anything like what the
> US has, and so there is STILL an immense number of the dregs
> of any society that will move to the US if they can do that.

When you start at the bottom of the barrel, don't expect miracles to happen,
and that you will be on the top of the barrel overnight. The fact is that
China seems to be doing a much better job of taking care of the needs of
their people, and if they can keep that going, will do a much better job of
taking care of the needs of their people as time passes.
>
> So the govts while hopeless are essentially irrelevant to
> the fundamental problem of illegal immigrants in the US.

Governments are never hopeless. They can change. It just requires a
willingness to change.
>
>> Africa seems to have another major problem, they don't seem to be able to
>> produce enough food for their population.
>
> They could if things were organised properly. And
> again, the fundamental problem is the birth rate.

No!! If you have a high birthrate, all that means is you have to do a
better job.
>
> Even HIV/AIDS isnt having much real effect on that.

It is a mater of how many die and what the "replacement" rate is.
>
>> You can abosorb as many people as you want, "if" you can figure out how
>> to provide your people with what are the necessities in life.
>
> There's no one starving in Mexico, so thats irrelevant to what
> is being discussed, ILLEGALS who decide that their prospects
> are much better in the US than in the country they are leaving.

You do not have to be starving to want to seek a better life. The East
Germans were not starving either.
>
> Thats true in spades of the Cubans who are
> prepared to risk death to move to the US.
>
> The real world is about a hell of a lot more than JUST the necessitys of
> life.

It is? These "necessities" of life mean that if you have it, you live a
reasonably good life, and if you do not have it, you live a less than
reasonable life.
>
>>>>>>> And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.
>
>>>>>> No one can say it will not work in Iraq.
>
>>>>> Corse anyone with a clue can say that.
>
>>>> Only someone who knows what will happen in the futrre can do that.
>
>>> Wrong. Its perfectly possible to notice that full civil war doesnt just
>>> stop by
>>> itself and that what the US is doing in Iraq isnt going to stop it any
>>> time soon.

The USA had a civil war, a really big one. Did we end up better off than
when the civil war started?
>
>>>>>> All we can say is that it is not working yet.
>
>>>>> And it wont, you watch. Replacing the govt produced the inevitable
>>>>> result, a full civil war, and those dont just go away by wishing that
>>>>> would happen.

You seem to also be engaged in wishful thinking and wishful thinking of the
worse kind. You seem to want there to be a civil war.
>
>>>>> Some have lasted for hundreds of years effectively, like with Ireland.
>
>>>> Yep, and there is no civil war in Ireland now, because the english did
>>>> not give up.
>
>>> Nope, because the Irish eventually came to their senses, after CENTURYS.

But would they have come to their senses if the English has simply given up?
>
>>> There isnt a shred of evidence that the stupid rag heads
>>> in Iraq will be giving up on their civil war any time soon.
>
>
We will never know, but one thing we can say we certainty, you cannot
succeed if you give up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freebies, samples, bargains, and More!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2576183ec5a395bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:52 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 2:45 pm, shopstar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do you like freebies, bargains, coupons, samples, and a fun
> community? Do you have freebies or deals to share? Then, ShopStar
> Forums is the place for you!
>
> Here are just some of the things you can expect with ShopStar Forums:
>
> *Be one of the first 500 registered members and be placed in a drawing
> for $25!

Hmmm. One chance in 500 to win $25. On average, that makes your offer
worth a nickel. Who wouldn't want to take that chance!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Ask Amy": What do you owe to parents while you're in school?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac88d29cbf7fb41d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:28 pm
From: "Lou"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4710cb57$0$32475$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> <goaway@fractious.net> wrote in message
> news:yob8x672lbc.fsf@panix2.panix.com...
> >
> >>
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/columnists/advice/chi-1010askamyoct10,0,295793.column
> >>
> >> Recently I was offered a full-time position at a local company, and I
> >> intend to take it. Now my mother has decided to demand money from me
> >> when I start this job. I've never asked her for a dime for baby-
> >
> > It wasn't clear if this guy is living in his mom's house
> > or not. If he's living in her house and has a full time
> > job outside the house, he should be paying rent.
>
> I think a reasonable way to base "rent" for an immediate family member is
to
> estimate the amount expenses increase as a result of the individual living
> there and base the charge on that. IOW, if mortgage payments would be the
> same regardless, I can't see charging a prorated portion, especially for
> someone who's going to school and will presumably leave the nest in a few
> years. However, if the family requires a larger home than they would
> otherwise, then it would be reasonable to charge them. Certainly an
employed
> family member should be paying for every cent of the groceries they
consume,
> and covering a prorated portion of the utilities.
>
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. A reasonable rent would be the local
market price, presuming there is one, for renting a room out to someone
who's not related. Here in NJ, that would be anywhere from $500 to $1,000
month for a furnished room. That would cover utilities (water and
electricity, not phone service or internet access), allow kitchen
privileges, and use of a bathroom. Not covered in that would be laundry
(probably not even use of the washer and dryer), food, or cooking services.
On the other hand, a paying boarder wouldn't normally be expected to do
chores around the house. An adult with a full time job should be expected
to pull his own weight.

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Saturday, October 13, 2007

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