Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 17 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:07 am
From: 8orge.onx@gmail.com

Interesting discussion with much so far to agree with, yet myself I've
long had a fairly distinct understanding, mostly I think from general
(mostly online) reading though also possibly from Consumer Reports
which I follow and have sometimes subscribed to, that:
For Refrigerators, the least power consumption is "apt" to be at about
only 1/3 full; nearly as good is about 1/2 full.
Of course, in practical terms, this is going to vary a great deal
depending upon many variables--even probably with the type of food
involved. Another possibly big factor, I think, might be humidity
level: I think there might be "little comparison" between how much
energy at least initially, it'd take to cool down very humid air,
compared to nonhumid. Think of travelling, say biking or walking,
down a country road on a cool night--near wetlands or swamps, the air
is suddenly vastly warmer!--because, the humid air there very much
holds the heat. Just which way this bounces as to net effect with
refrigerators, I don't know, except to think that with my refrigs
which I tend to keep quite full (small farmer here), I think the air
tends to be very humid, so probably I get an advantage since losing
cold humid air would clearer be a greater loss than the equivalent of
lowly humid air, and so fullness here would probably be helping me
quite a bit.
That said, I do agree I think that in general, losing reasonable
amounts of air from a frig, is probably not such a big deal, and the
air/air's coolness is easily restored--which, I guess probably means I
think in most refrigerators (unlike mine with lots of fruit, wet
freshly washed produce etc) the frig air is probably kept at low
humidity, by the frig by design (except crispers, which, if they kept
at high humidity to keep produce moist and unwilted, would seem to
demonstrate the basic low-humidity plan of the (rest of) the frig not
counting the crispers.
As for stuff/amount of stuff in the refrig and the effect of such
'ballast" in helping maintain coldness, what about the shelf systems
and such? Extensive shelving, especially glass, must be able to hold
onto a lot of coolness.
The thing I personally orry about (along with my biggest concern of
all: keeping the good contained preserved and intact) more, is airflow
in the frig compartment overall--especially possibly near wherever the
thermostat happens to be, which I think varies among different makes--
because after all, the basic governance of refrigerator chilling
efforts overall, other than use factors, settings chosen and possibly
things like the mentioned humidity factor--would seem very much
revolve upon what's sensed, as to temperature, by that thermostat.
Which, I suppose, is why the thermostats are I think, usually toward
the back wall, where they will be more shielded by food present and by
distance from the door.

..."my thoughts" on the topic, if little more than that,
anyway...while as a berry grower/small farmer, the topic "is" one I
have had to take seriously both for walk-in cooler and regular refrigs.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:50 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>... If you, say, never use the bottom shelf and you put a 5-gallon jug of
>water down there, and orient it so that it blocks the air from sinking out,
>it could reduce the airflow a lot and maybe only increase the condensation
>a little.

Near the bottom seems better than near the top, since cool air falls.
And empty seems better than water-filled, for less condensation. And
thin vs thick walls with more thermal mass, eg balloons vs jugs.

>Also, if you fill the fridge *really* full, you are reducing the total
>volume of air in the fridge...

That's good, after the door closes. Cooling 1 ft^3 of 0.075 lb/ft^3 70 F air
with a 0.24 Btu/lb-F specific heat to 36 F takes 0.075x0.24(70-36) = 0.6 Btu,
ie 0.18 watt-hour of heat energy, vs 1 Btu (0.29 Wh of electrical energy)
for each compressor start, vs a frugal fridge consuming 1 kWh/day.

If we open a 14 ft^3 fridge door 12 times per day, how much electrical energy
can we save by reducing it to a 7 ft^3 fridge with tightly-packed balloons?
Recall that 1 kWh of electrical energy can supply 3 kWh of coolth for a fridge
with a COP of 3. How much can we save with a 4- vs 1-hour cycle time?

>and thus reducing the airflow (because it takes force to move air through
>narrow passages, due to friction).

With gaps larger than 1/8" or so, more cold surfaces not only increase
condensation when the door is open. They also increase the rate of room
airflow through the fridge when the door is open, since room air that enters
the fridge leaves colder, and the air density difference driving the flow
is larger... cfm = 16.6Asqrt(HdT). I'd guess more condensation and airflow
in a fridge packed with water jugs waste a lot more energy than smaller
air volume and longer cycle time save.

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nothing to see here folks, just move along
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
just joe <don.gato@alaska.com> wrote just the
puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:21 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
> just joe <don.gato@alaska.com> wrote just the
> puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.
>
>
And the best that welfare Rod can ever manage is the same bot over
and over. Took him forever to figure out he was misspelling "puerile".
Come on, welfare boy, show us the flushing routine.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:36 am
From: Buddy

here's E Z Peaces's last post ->:
> Jeanette Guire wrote:
>> Neither olive oil nor vinegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed
>> (as
>> in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be
>> refrigerated
>> (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>
>> What is different about olive oil + vinegar + a few spices & salt from a
>> microbial culture standpoint?
>>
>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>> refrigerated?
>
> Cheap olive oil goes rancid faster than good oil because cheap oil is
> more acidic. Also, if you keep your olive oil refrigerated, you may get
> condensation in the oil when you have the cold bottle out and open.
> Moisture may soon spoil the flavor.
>
> So when you add vinegar and water, the oil will deteriorate faster. Each
> time you shake it, you mix air into it.
With some trepidation, Buddy stepped into the quagmire to add:

If it's going to spoil on the table, then sometime it will spoil
in the frig too, only it will take longer. We all know that. It's
all relative and you can beat that relativity until it reaches the
molecular level - nobody's going to change anything, especially
somebodies sacred point of view.

Finally, don't forget the CYA factor that the food industry, the
government, and all authorities throw at you calling it fact. The
USDA guidelines currently call for eggs to be boiled at least 15
mins. I'm sure that there are a few of us who will continue to
enjoy a nice, 3 min. dropped egg, and those that will shudder at
the thought and go running to their 'guide books' for common sense.

I make my salad dressing in the bowl, on my salad fresh each time.
My EV olive oil isn't refrigerated nor are any of my vinegars
(some flavored with herbs sit unrefrigerated all the time). I
suppose if I made more, I would refrigerate it. But if it only
contained vinegar, oil and herbs, then I don't think it would
spoil out of the frig in the time it will take me to use it. But
it won't be a gallon of it!

><<XX>:> Buddy

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:18 am
From: zxcvbob

Rod Speed wrote:
> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>> As I understand it, the garlic and other herbs put in the dressing
>>>> may have botulism spores on them, the oil provides the
>>>> environment for the botulism to grow. The vinegar doesn't stop
>>>> the growth because it separates too easily from the mix.
>
>>> Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff keeps fine unrefrigerated
>>> but you need to refrigerate it once its been opened.
>
>> Commercial salad dressings and acidified sauces are microbiologically safe.
>
> They do however tell you to refrigerate after opening. There's a reason for that.

The main reason is because the taste better that way.

Bob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Restaurant coupon issue - how SHOULD I have reacted?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4082e25278c7472?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:28 am
From: Meghan Noecker

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:31:33 -0400, "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>
> Should I have done what my wife suggested - simply laid down a 10 spot and
>walked out - explaining that they need to honor what I was told on the
>phone, or I'd never set foot in their door again?
>

Walking out without paying the amount on the bill would be considered
theft, and they coudl call the police on you.

Now, did you say on the phone that you had a coupon? You don't say
that you did, only that you asked about combos.

I have found that people often do not say the correct thing when they
are orderingm and we often have to guess. For example, where I work,
we have an express special and a supreme combo. A lot of people ask
for a combo, but they are referring to the express special. I have
learned to ask the customer for clarification, but many of the newer
employees do not. They start serving the supreme until it becomes
clear that the customer does not want that meal.

I'm not saying that the clerk couldn't have been more helpful, but if
he did not know you had a coupon, he probably assumed you were
interested in any meal that had had rice/beans with an entree.

I am also puzzled that you did not confirm prices when you called. Had
you been to that restaurant before? Were all of their meals the same
price before?

I think that had you told the person you had a coupon, he would have
limited his menu options to combos that qualified. And had you asked
for prices, you would not have been surprised by the higher price.

I think that once you skip that part and place the order, you are
obligated to pay for it. You could send a letter and complain if you
really feel justified. But I think it would be wrong not to pay
properly when you didn't confirm the price in advance.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Go Online For Home Insurance Comparison
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/74ce14958e56b5da?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 2:33 am
From: trav

Go Online For Home Insurance Comparison

Going online via a specialist broker for your home insurance
comparison is the easiest and quickest way to get the best deal on
your household insurance and of course when it comes to understanding
the ins and outs of home insurance the specialist website will offer
valuable information that you can put to good use.

Home insurance comparison is one of the most sensible ways of shopping
around for the best and cheapest deal
( http://house-insurance-site.blogspot.com/2007/10/go-online-for-home-insurance-comparison.html
)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Life Insurance - Guide
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b7835a8d43e9eecf?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 2:50 am
From: InsurInfo

We are living in a hefty world of pain. Who knows what will happen to
us
next?. Imagine, What will happento our family after we pass out? In
this
case Shouldn't we be more careful. It's better to take a life
insurance.
For that point, you need to know more on life insurance. I have a
website
that talks about Life Insurance and has great tips and a guild to
Guide
you to a better Life Insurance Policy. I suggest that everybody checks
it
out.

http://www.theinsurancezone.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: personal checks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c66a055f62296a0a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 3:22 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <1192511028.256497.144580@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:

> Can someone recommend a cheap place to re-order personal checks on the
> net?

Do online banking and your need for personal checks and stamps will drop
considerably.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:39 am
From: SFTV_troy

Thanatos wrote:
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
> > >> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the
> > >> line"?
> > >
> > > Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
> > > illegal and the other is not...
> >
> > the only important fact is, it is our government who decides who is legal
> > and who is illegal. So, it is our government who can decide to turn what is
> > otherwise considered illegal to be legal.
>
> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
> (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
> ignore it.

Cubans who escape are probably treated the same as East Europeans or
Chinese who escaped from Communism. "Political refugees" not full
citizens. The exception is made because it's a communist country, and
we treat communist countries as a special case, and also because
there's no legal process to apply for U.S. citizenship.

Other countries like Italy, or Japan, or Mexico that DO have a legal
process are expected to (1) apply for a visa (2) get accepted and (3)
enter the nation whereupon you can (4) apply for citizenship. If they
do not follow the process, then they committed an illegal act and
returned back home so they can fill-out the proper forms.

I don't object to Mexicans wanting to enter U.S. soil. I object that
they are not following the legal process of applying for a visa.

As for the vouchers issue:

(1) It's only $40.

(2) It would be too expensive to try to block illegals from getting
the coupons. The amount of manpower required to verify, "Is Greg a
citizen or an illegal?" would be WAY more expensive than the amount of
money lost. You'd probably spend 1 million just to save $500,000,
which makes no sense. Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Penny wise and
dollar foolish."

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegals in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:40 am
From: SFTV_troy

(1) It's only $40.

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegal in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:43 am
From: SFTV_troy

Rod Speed wrote:
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com>
>
> > Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>
> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally? Why can't they
follow the process of filling-out an application, and getting a Visa?
This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my other Japanese
friend did. I'm sure the Mexicans can do the same... just ask the
U.S. embassy for the application. Be legal, not illegal.

As for the vouchers:

(1) It's only $40.

(2) It would be too expensive to try to block illegals from getting
coupons. The amount of manpower required to verify, "Is Greg a
citizen or an illegal?" would be WAY more expensive than the amount of
money lost. You'd probably spend 1 million just to save $500,000,
which makes no sense. Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Penny wise and
dollar foolish."

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegal in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acheter Acomplia en ligne
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ed5f44df1583cacf?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:43 am
From: European

Acheter Acomplia en ligne

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/acheter-acomplia-en-ligne.html

Acheter Acomplia en ligne L'Acomplia de Sanofi-Aventis est un nouveau
médicament pouvant être prescrit dans le cadre du traitement contre
l'obésité (associé à un régime adéquat et une activité physique
régulière).
Le Rimonabant (son composé actif) agit sur les récepteurs CB1 du
système endocannabinoïde responsable des sensations de satiété, de
l'équilibre énergétique et du métabolisme gluco-lipidique.
En diminuant notablement la sensation de faim, il aide les patients à
mieux contrôler et réduire leur alimentation.
À qui s'adresse-t-il? L'Acomplia est préconisé pour des patients dont
l'indice de masse corporel (IMC) dépasse 30 ou pour un IMC de 27 dans
le cadre de dyslipidémie ou de diabète de type 2.

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/acheter-acomplia-en-ligne.html

Acheter Acomplia en ligne (rimonabant) promet les avantages doubles
pour les personnes ob?ses et pour ceux qui souhaitent s?rieusement
stopper le tabagisme.
Crainte de beaucoup de gens de mettre plus de livres apr?s le
tabagisme du cessation. De fumeurs crainte souvent de mettre plus de
livres une fois qu'elles cessent le tabagisme.
C'est les fumeurs principaux de raison redoutent et ils h?sitent ainsi
dans la prise de d?cision ? poursuivre le cessation de tabagisme.
Acomplia est efficace pour les personnes qui souhaitent perdre le
poids et stopper fumer en m?me temps.
Aucune merveille de plus en plus personnes ne font confiance ? cette m?
decine de merveille pour ses effets duels et lancent avec succ?s leur
campagne ? la parole au revoir au tabagisme et demeurent minces en m?
me temps.

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TOPIC: Free Kids Toothbrush From Colgate! Choose Your Character!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd1f17a4cd526167?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:06 am
From: eHDMI

Free Kids Toothbrush From Colgate! Choose Your Character!
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=175

Nice kids offer! Your Kids Will Love Their FREE Character Toothbrush!

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TOPIC: Free Good Morning Hawaii TV T-Shirt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b6f34980699ab5d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:26 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

We would love to hear from you. All you have to do is fill out the
form below, leave a small comment and we'll send you a prize.
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--
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All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The BeatlesRaritiesX
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d26010bb2ac0c082?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 6:23 am
From: Hostel

The BeatlesRaritiesX
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/HELP.html
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/HELP1.htm
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/CDBOOT.htm
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/MBCT.htm

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:55 am
From: Hostel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:08 am
From: "Otto Bahn"

"Alan Truism" <alan.truism@yahoo.com> wrote

> >> > I'm all for water conservation, but I don't really care to get his piss on
> >> > me from urinal splash back. I now have to flush both before and after I
> >> > pee.
> >>
> >> But you don't mind getting your own piss on you from urnal splashback when
> >> you pee.
> >>
> >> Maybe you should stand back a little further, adjust your aim, or use the
> >> toilet.
> >
> > I never flush urinals. If the next guy doesn't like it,
> > he can do it. I'm not a hygiene freak, but I ain't
> > touching anything I don't have to in a pubic restroom.
> > And yes, if you are standing, you are splashing, but I
> > figure sitting is even worse, except at my house. The
> > designers of toilets and urinals do their best, but
> > there's no escaping physics.
> >
>
> What about at work?

We have auto-flush toilets.

> What do your coworkers say when they walk in after you to find
> a golden glowing bowl of piss?

You need to drink more water.

--oTTo--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:54 am
From: Jeff

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> A Veteran wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
>>
>>> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
>>> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name
>>> when it was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete
>>> battery technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap
>>> lightweights that underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the usual
>>> now.
>>
>>
>> our local hardware store has 'em for $.75
>
>
> Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?
>
I guess that folded when they ran through their stock of heavy duties.

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:24 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Jeff wrote:
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>> A Veteran wrote:
>>
>>> In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
>>>
>>>> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
>>>> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name
>>>> when it was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete
>>>> battery technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap
>>>> lightweights that underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the
>>>> usual now.
>>>
>>>
>>> our local hardware store has 'em for $.75
>>
>>
>> Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?
>>
> I guess that folded when they ran through their stock of heavy duties.

Actually, I suspect it was the arrival of alkaline batteries. The ones
they used to hand out were zinc-carbon ones, which are not really made
any more so far as I can tell.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Havana Ginger free video clips. Movie gallery
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b004016f5ce14b60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:52 am
From: thumblogger2@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: PLEASE HELP US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/641fd0f99dd59d56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:24 am
From: Albert

Hello,
we are a young couple from Italy looking for help.
Take a look to our homepage.
www.willmarry.net

Thanks

Albert

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:53 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 15, 3:35 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I'm planning on getting my wife a box of malted milk balls - her
> favorite - and writing a poem for her. The day is about showing you
> remembered and that you appreciate the person with a small gift (usually
> edible), not about trying to get huge or expensive gifts.
>
> Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
> appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?
> Something sweet, I hope!

Nothing for Sweetest Day. We don't do Hallmark holidays.

I show my appreciation for my husband every single day,
as he shows his for me.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:59 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 15, 5:24 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2:36 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 13, 5:11 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> > > Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
> > > local economy also.
>
> > What the hell are we supposed to eat when the ground is frozen solid
> > for months on end?
>
> > Get a grip.
>
> What did people eat one hundred years ago, when shipping produce
> around the world was almost unheard of (with some exceptions).

What diseases did people suffer from one hundred years ago because
they couldn't get proper nutrition in the winter?

> Root vegatables like potatoes, turnips, carrots, and squash, apples
> are all cold stored and sold at reasonable prices throughout the
> winter.

I don't eat very much of any of those, except apples.

> We don't stop buying imports all together, but we do reduce during the
> winter.
>
> And of course another technique was to can (or more recently freeze)
> local produce to use all year round.

I've canned. I've frozen. I can't be bothered anymore. (Although I
might
freeze a few roma tomatoes out of my garden.)

> The reason many of our veggies are tasteless these days is they are
> picked at a point where they can be transported long distances without
> spoilage, which means in many cases they never fully ripened.
>
> I go to farmers markets when I can to get local, and it does taste
> better.

Well, so do I. But there just isn't enough capacity to feed local
produce
to everyone here all winter long.

Cindy Hamilton

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