Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living without a credit card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1543df3db7e868b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:18 am
From: Scott in SoCal

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:33:30 -0600, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>Paul Pluzhnikov wrote:
>> I use REI Visa (http://www.reivisa.com), which gives %1 cash back
>> on everything, with no maximum. I pay for *everything* with it,
>> including (reimbursed) business travel and many utility bills.
>
>That's pretty funny, because it beats the deal I get with my Citibank
>card, which gets 1% back and 3% at gas stations, but with a maximum
>of $300 a year.

The Blue Cash card from American Express also beats it - it has no
$300/year cap on the rebate.

>The reason it's funny is that I became an REI member
>just this afternoon when I was buying some running socks, and that card
>is available only to REI members.

Does the REI Visa actually pay you CASH back, or is it only a voucher
for REI merchandise? In the description of the card on the REI web
site, they never use the word "CASH" - they say REBATE. I know with
their regular membership you can request an actual check for your
rebate, but is the same true for the Visa card?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:23 am
From: Scott in SoCal

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:29:04 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:32:54 -0500, Just A User
>> <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:39:22 -0500, Just A User
>>>> <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have 6 cards that I use on a
>>>>> rotating basis for normal expenses. I pay the balance off every month.
>>>>
>>>> SIX cards?
>>>>
>>>> What's the advantage to rotating through 6 cards instead of just using
>>>> 1 (or 2, or 3)?
> >>
>>>Well sometime ago I read somewhere that having multiple open accounts is
>>>better for rebuilding your credit.
>>
>> That may be true, but having too much "open to buy" can work against
>> you. Some lenders assume that the moment you get your loan from them
>> you're going to run right out and max out all your credit cards, so
>> having 6 might actually result in a mortgage or a car loan not being
>> approved.
>
>I have a wallet full of the damn things because of the premiums they
>give you for getting a card. Yesterday's gift was 10% off a DVD
>recorder. Couldn't turn that down, but it's just one more card to carry
>around.

And one more card to get lost or stolen.

You *could* close those accounts, you know. :)

>Yes, I pay the bills off each month. Doesn't everyone here do that?

If that were true, we wouldn't have threads like this one.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:26 am
From: Paul Pluzhnikov

Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:33:30 -0600, Logan Shaw
> <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul Pluzhnikov wrote:
>>> I use REI Visa (http://www.reivisa.com), which gives %1 cash back
>
> The Blue Cash card from American Express also beats it - it has no
> $300/year cap on the rebate.

Hmm, I have that one too, and it looks like it will give me bigger
rebate :)

> Does the REI Visa actually pay you CASH back, or is it only a voucher
> for REI merchandise?

You get an annual letter with total rebate amount.
You can "spend" that letter at REI and get a 20% discount off
one item, or you can request a check to be mailed to you, which
can then be deposited.

Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:48 am
From: Just A User

Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:29:04 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:32:54 -0500, Just A User
>>> <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:39:22 -0500, Just A User
>>>>> <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have 6 cards that I use on a
>>>>>> rotating basis for normal expenses. I pay the balance off every month.
>>>>> SIX cards?
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the advantage to rotating through 6 cards instead of just using
>>>>> 1 (or 2, or 3)?
>>>> Well sometime ago I read somewhere that having multiple open accounts is
>>>> better for rebuilding your credit.
>>> That may be true, but having too much "open to buy" can work against
>>> you. Some lenders assume that the moment you get your loan from them
>>> you're going to run right out and max out all your credit cards, so
>>> having 6 might actually result in a mortgage or a car loan not being
>>> approved.
>> I have a wallet full of the damn things because of the premiums they
>> give you for getting a card. Yesterday's gift was 10% off a DVD
>> recorder. Couldn't turn that down, but it's just one more card to carry
>> around.
>
> And one more card to get lost or stolen.
>
> You *could* close those accounts, you know. :)
>
>> Yes, I pay the bills off each month. Doesn't everyone here do that?
>
> If that were true, we wouldn't have threads like this one.

I will be closing some of my accounts in the future. And I thought all
smart consumers paid off their cards on a monthly basis.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:57 am
From: richgr@panix.com (Rich Greenberg)

In article <X7SdnTz5JZCquMnanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:

[big snip]

>I will be closing some of my accounts in the future. And I thought all
>smart consumers paid off their cards on a monthly basis.

Yes, all smart consumers do, but not all consumers are smart.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 11:04 am
From: Marc

On Dec 2, 8:42 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Get a debit card. You can use it just like a credit card except you
> can not spend the money if you do not have it.

Unfortunately, this isn't always true; sometimes the transaction will
be
accepted and generate an overdraft. Someone who lacks the financial
self-discipline to only spend what he can afford with a credit card
may
find that overdraft fees can be much higher than the interest payments
used to be.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clothing Shirt Cap Nike Jordans puma bape gucci prada Sport shoes Bape
Dunk jean
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1fb5ce42d4610a9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:21 am
From: "shopbb.com"

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31

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Christ in Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/06c4482e668dd598?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:23 am
From: George

Mac Cool wrote:
> George:
>
>> I know atheists like to declare that basic science and rules of logic
>> are invalid but there is always the possibility that you are unable
>> to observe something that may be there. You can only make an
>> assertion that a "giant pink elephant" defined as you know it isn't
>> there. You can never prove that there isn't a giant pink elephant in
>> the room.
>
> An elephant that cannot be observed or measured by any means known, is not
> an elephant by definition but something else entirely.
>

That is like saying since by all current definitions there is no cure
for cancer so there can never be a cure for cancer.

> If you want to prove god, you must first prove it is possible for a god to
> exist.

Why are you changing the argument? We are discussing can you ever prove
a negative. No one made an assertion about proving there is a God only
that God doesn't exist.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:27 am
From: Anthony Matonak

George wrote:
> Mac Cool wrote:
>> An elephant that cannot be observed or measured by any means known, is
>> not an elephant by definition but something else entirely.
>
> That is like saying since by all current definitions there is no cure
> for cancer so there can never be a cure for cancer.

Saying that you can prove there is no giant pink elephant in a room
by simply looking is nothing like saying that since, by all current
definitions, there is no giant pink elephant in the room so there
can never be a giant pink elephant in the room.

More to the point, is it more frugal to have a giant pink elephant
in the room and not believe in it or to believe in a giant pink
elephant in the room and not have one?

Anthony

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 11:14 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 231 wrote:
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> 231 wrote:
>>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> here's what i know:
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>> my God has a Son name Christ Jesus.
>>>> You dont know that.
>>
>>> But since a negative can never be proved
>>
>> That is just plain wrong. I can trivially prove that
>> there is no gigantic pink elephant in this room.

> I know atheists like to declare that basic science and rules of logic are invalid

Didnt do that. I JUST rubbed your nose in the FACT that that
claim that you can never prove a negative is just plain wrong.

> but there is always the possibility that you are unable to observe something that may be there.

And that possibility can be eliminated by using a number of ways
of measuring if there is a gigantic pink elephant in the room.

> You can only make an assertion that a "giant pink elephant" defined as you know it isn't there.

Wrong again. You can measure whether the gigantic pink elephant is there or not.

> You can never prove that there isn't a giant pink elephant in the room.

You can assert that until you are blue in the face, changes nothing.

>>> how do you know?
>>
>> How do I know what ?
>>
>>>>> islam's god does not.
>>>> Its the same god, stupid.
>>>>
>>>>> therefore they cannot be the same god
>>>> Or it is the same god and its devotees cant get the basics right.
>>>>
>>>>> and they are not, no matter how hard islam tries to horn in and
>>>>> claim it as so.
>>>> Just as true of the stupid xtians.
>>>>
>>>>> allah IS NOT the same god as the God of the hebrew and christians.
>>>> Easy to claim. Hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that
>>>> claim. In spades that there is any 'god' at all.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 11:18 am
From: "231" <231@alok.com>

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Peter Bruells wrote:
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> I know atheists like to declare that basic science and rules of
>>> logic are invalid but there is always the possibility that you are
>>> unable to observe something that may be there. You can only make an
>>> assertion that a "giant pink elephant" defined as you know it isn't
>>> there. You can never prove that there isn't a giant pink elephant
>>> in the room.
>>
>> When I fill the root with water and it takes as much water as the
>> room is able to hold, there isn't a giant pink elephant in there for
>> for reasonable definitions of "being in there".

> First let me state that my objection has nothing to do with believing in God.

Yes, we are now discussing your assertion that you can never prove a negative.

> Your example uses only using tests that you know about.

All you need is a number of tests that all show that there is
no gigantic pink elephant in the room to prove that negative.

> There is always the possibility that something can exist that can't be detected by methods that are currently
> available.

Yes, but that does not apply to that particular negative,
that there is no gigantic pink elephant in this room.

> Just imagine once we could only see things with the naked eye. Then we
> devised optical magnification and found more stuff. Then we devised
> better magnification and found even more stuff. Then we illuminated
> with different wavelength light and found even more stuff. Then we
> devised a method to scan with really short wavelengths (electron
> microscope) and found even more stuff. And then there are the methods
> we haven't yet discovered.

Irrelevant to the fact that there are a number of tests that
all show that there is no gigantic pink elephant in this room.

> At any point along the line observers made the seemingly sensible for the moment but illogical declaration that there
> is nothing else and were proved wrong.

Irrelevant to the fact that there are a number of tests that
all show that there is no gigantic pink elephant in this room.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clothing Shirt Cap Nike Jordans puma bape gucci prada Sport shoes Bape
Dunk jean(www.shopbb.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf67c26949c5f99b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:26 am
From: "shopbb.com"

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much do you really save turning down the thermostat?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6b14ffb2d998b9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:28 am
From: Jeff

clams casino wrote:
> Mac Cool wrote:
>
>> Don Klipstein:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Nope, it tends to cause mockery when on the beach or the solarium
>>>> etc.
>>> This gets me to think that 231@alok.com might be the deservedly
>>> widely-hated subtroll from Australia who is so low a subtroll as to
>>> gain a FAQ specifically for him.
>>>
>>
>> Wow. Take some of that money you save and buy a sense of humor. I bet
>> you're wife will appreciate that a lot more than fuzzy slippers.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hint - Rod is the joke - not his comments.

Actually, the joke wasn't so bad that I would have identified the
author, but the follow up sealed the identity.

Jeff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 8:22 am
From: clams casino

clams casino wrote:

> Joe wrote:
>
>> I'm struggling with the idea between keeping my thermostat at 66
>> degrees which I need to wear at least two layers of clothing around my
>> house to feel comfortable and 69 degrees with which I can walk around
>> comfortably in a t-shirt. Has any actually calculated actual savings
>> of turning down the thermostat? I've read all the articles about how
>> you can save 10% per each degree you turn down your thermostat but I
>> would like to see if anyone actually have some real numbers to back me
>> up. I'm not sure it's worth $30 a month to live like this.
>>
>>
>
>
> No hard figures, but logically there is a savings for any reduced temp
> level (except with heat pumps).
>
> I suggest using programmable thermostats with several daily time
> adjustments. They should pay for themselves within months.
>
> For a start, we have up and down zones / thermostats. During the day,
> we keep the upstairs at 62 (doors shut so the heat from downstairs
> stays primarily downstairs), with the heat increased to 68 early
> evening and down to 66 about midnight.
>
> Downstairs, we set the thermostat at 62 at 10pm & step up the temp to
> 66 about 4am, 67 at 8am, 68 at 3pm and 69 at 5pm. When we leave the
> house, we drop the thermostat a few degrees, usually resetting when we
> reenter. The thermostat is near the door we use most, so it's no
> bother to hit the buttons up / down as desired. During the morning,
> 66-67 can be comfortable, but there is always a chill about the time
> the sun drops so the change helps keep the comfort..
>
> This may not work with a heat pump (secondary heating will kill the
> savings), but should work with gas & oil.
>

Did some calculating. Granted there is not enough data for statistical
validity, but I did retrieve some heating information over the past five
years.

year Degree days CCF gas ccf/degree days
03 6010 1168 0.194
04 5579 1087 0.195
05 5842 1098 0.188
06 4927 876 0.178
07 5223 893 0.171

I installed the programmable thermostats in the fall of 05. Before that
time, we tended to keep the house about 67F. Since december 07 data
are not yet available, I factored in the average Dec data from previous
years. Also, since we average about 30 CCF per month for hot water
(washing, showers, dish washer,etc), I subtracted 360 CCF for each year
to essentially net the gas used just for heating.

The above data indicate I'm saving about 10-12% since installing the
thermostats. In addition to saving perhaps $150/yr (more than enough to
pay for the two programmable thermostats - plus a portion of the gas
bill is fixed with a portion variable) the altering of temperature
actually adds to our comfort level where we prefer a lower sleeping temp
during the night and like the incremental boost around sun down.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 8:28 am
From: Jeff

Mac Cool wrote:
> Joe:
>
>> I'd keep my thermostat at 60 if it were just me but I have a boney
>> wife who tells me it's freezing if the temp drops below 67 and two
>> children that kick their covers off at night. I was hoping some frugal
>> person out there would have done the math for their own house to tell
>> me how much they save by turning down their thermostat. A dollar a day
>> is more than worth it not to hear my wife bitch but for 2-5 dollars I
>> might just buy ear plugs.
>>
>
> The warmer your house is relative to the outside air, the faster the warm
> air will move to the outside, so the tricks to saving money are sealing
> air leaks, insulation, then turning down the thermostat in that order. We
> use a programable thermostat that warms the house in the morning and
> evening, then drops low during the day and night. If you are concerned
> about the kids (mine kick the covers also), use a small electric heater to
> warm up their room.

I agree with all of this. It's sound advice.

*After* you do all of those, which will yield the quickest return on
your investment (and the smallest investment), consider lowering the
cost of your heat. If you have an old gas furnace, a condensing furnace
could save at least 15% of your heating. There's other options:

<URL: http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/heating.htm />

I've been replacing much of my heating with solar, that's not
something the average family would consider, but it fits in nicely with
my lifestyle. It also reduces my carbon foot print, which is good for
the home planet.

There's a nice site on solar here:

<URL: http://builditsolar.com />

With anything ,consider how long the payback period is. Some
commercial projects can have very long paybacks. I tend to think in
terms of two years (which is very short)... but I don't count my labor.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free insulation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23818014c060caae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:48 am
From: A Veteran

Lots of "Popcorn" is available. you know the styrofoam peanuts that are
used in packing boxes.
Use it to fill cavities and voids in your building. Be cautious as it can
burn.

--
when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
All problems look like nails.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:08 am
From: clams casino

A Veteran wrote:

>Lots of "Popcorn" is available. you know the styrofoam peanuts that are
>used in packing boxes.
>Use it to fill cavities and voids in your building. Be cautious as it can
>burn.
>
>
>

Flammability is a high risk for using packing materials in that way.
The RI Station (nightclub) fire of a few year back is an excellent
example where incorrect insulation can be quite hazardous.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:36 am
From: Anthony Matonak

A Veteran wrote:
> Lots of "Popcorn" is available. you know the styrofoam peanuts that are
> used in packing boxes.
> Use it to fill cavities and voids in your building. Be cautious as it can
> burn.

I have heard this idea before and, as I recall, it's a very bad one.
A quick websearch gave me the reason why. These packing peanuts are
not treated with fire retardants while normal insulating foam is.

Feel free to try an experiment. Take a small paper lunch bag and
fill it with packing peanuts. Take another paper bag and fill with
your favorite building insulation. Light them on fire (stand well
back) and see which burns fastest. Report on how they compare. :)

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Crucial Criteria for choosing equipment.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee8cb2f81c0d6b16?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:57 am
From: "Michael Chare"

"Adrian C" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message
news:5rfe65F13qn1uU1@mid.individual.net...
> Roderick Stewart wrote:
> I'm certainly
>> not snobbish about revolutionary designs that actually improve things.
>>
>
> That will be you. The shiny shiny technophone and elderly set are a
> different breed ...
>

Maybe they should take heed of this:

Costly kitchen appliances 'less reliable':
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/03/ncosts103.xml

--
Michael Chare

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Renting VS Buying Homes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/37be5c6af5aee907?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 7:59 am
From: Chad

hi,

I know this topic has been discussed for a long time and at many
places. But when I came to this question recently, I still keep
thinking, "is it worth to buy a house now? even the market right now
seems nice to buyers." Because every person's financial situation is
different. In order to find out the exact answer, I made this web page
to do some calculation.
The basic idea is to let both renting and buying sides start with the
same amount of money, and spend the same amount of money every month.
At the end, see which side is richer.
There are many factors I did not include in the calculation such as
inflation on HOA, insurance which will make it harder and harder to
calculate.
Here is the link: http://rentingvsbuying.chadstown.com/
Do you guys think if the calculation makes sense?
Thanks.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:06 am
From: clams casino

Chad wrote:

>hi,
>
>I know this topic has been discussed for a long time and at many
>places. But when I came to this question recently, I still keep
>thinking, "is it worth to buy a house now? even the market right now
>seems nice to buyers." Because every person's financial situation is
>different. In order to find out the exact answer, I made this web page
>to do some calculation.
>The basic idea is to let both renting and buying sides start with the
>same amount of money, and spend the same amount of money every month.
>At the end, see which side is richer.
>There are many factors I did not include in the calculation such as
>inflation on HOA, insurance which will make it harder and harder to
>calculate.
>Here is the link: http://rentingvsbuying.chadstown.com/
>Do you guys think if the calculation makes sense?
>Thanks.
>
>

Calculations are fine, but IMO, the two significant factors of renting
vs. buying (from a financial consideration) is whether you would buy vs.
rent the same home and one's tax bracket. It's a whole different
consideration if one needs a 3-5 bedroom home or just likes / strongly
prefers home vs. apartment living.

In most cases, apartments are smaller and tend to be more conveniently
located to one's place of employment. It's tough to find a decent 1200
sq2 home in a decent location. Many single and two person households
are only home at night & weekends. Is a big home really desirable /
worthwhile for them? There is also usually a greater cost (time and
dollars) to commute from housing developments vs. apartments. Then, of
course there is the added cost of utilities, furnishings, taxes,
interest, etc for a home larger than one really needs / desires.
Renting a smaller apartment will often times beat out home ownership -
provided the difference in cost is invested / not spent away.

The second biggest factor is probably tax bracket. Home ownership
makes much sense for 30+% tax brackets where one typically enjoys long
form deductions of interest & taxes, but it's much less clear for
someone in a 15% bracket and/or one who does not (or marginally) qualify
for such deductions.

A third factor is how long one intends to live at a particular
location. It can take several years of appreciation to offset selling
costs.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 11:07 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Chad <chadfsjob@yahoo.com> wrote

> I know this topic has been discussed for a long time and at
> many places. But when I came to this question recently, I
> still keep thinking, "is it worth to buy a house now? even the
> market right now seems nice to buyers." Because every person's
> financial situation is different. In order to find out the exact answer,

There never can be an exact answer, particularly when
the choice is marginal and the future cannot be predicted.

> I made this web page to do some calculation.

Trouble is that it can never include the most important numbers, what the market
will do property value wise in the particular market you will be buying in.

It cant even really get much of a handle on what interest rates will do in the future either.

> The basic idea is to let both renting and buying sides start
> with the same amount of money, and spend the same amount
> of money every month. At the end, see which side is richer.

That is a totally inappropriate way to calculate it.

One of the real advantages of buy over renting is that its a form
of forced saving. It makes it harder to piss the excess of income
over outgoings against the wall on short term spending like
holidays and expensive meals out and entertainment etc etc etc.

> There are many factors I did not include in the calculation such as inflation
> on HOA, insurance which will make it harder and harder to calculate.

So your calculations are useless and it makes more sense to make
general statements like that if you have a decent income and there
isnt any evidence that a major sag is about to happen in the market
you are considering buying a house in, and you dont plan to move
any year soon, you are generally better off buying rather than renting
while loan interest rates are as low as they currently are, but that its
important to only buy what leaves you some slack in your payments,
so that if you are on a variable rate loan, you can still afford the
payments when interest rates inevitably go up and you wont have
to sellup because you cant afford the payments anymore.

> Here is the link: http://rentingvsbuying.chadstown.com/
> Do you guys think if the calculation makes sense?

No it doesnt, for the reasons I stated above.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just for Kids - bySantaShop.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23fff8cd5f76fc7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 9:46 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

Because your child's magical belief in Santa happens just once in a
lifetime! Lots of things for kids, too many to list! Changes daily!

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: welcome to see our company website(WWW.GLOBWHOLESALE.COM)cheap
wholesale NIKE-jordan-gucci-prada-puma-trainers-handbag-purses-sneakers-nokia-
mp3-mp4-jeans-cap-belts-boots-sweater-tshirts-watches-shoes and so on
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ace6fe20c3aaa98a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 10:37 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

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5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man
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Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
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4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
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Website : http://www.globwholesale.com
Yahoo ID:globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Canned Mackerel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f049abff31c44b3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 11:06 am
From: "news.verizon.net"

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ivc5l31hld99qld0r22sn62bmtv9l92kcv@4ax.com...
>
>
> This is neat. I just bought a 115gm can of Mackerel, the flat can with
> a pull tab to open it. Included inside is a plastic fork so that I
> can eat from the can without further ado. Its a really brilliant
> idea. The can is packed inside a cardboard box labelled CanAsia of
> Thailand. Costs CDN1.59 from the Chinese grocery shop. I rarely
> snack between meals and canned fish is a snack I like, not too
> filling, is delicious, nutiritious, easy to digest and no preparation
> needed.

Yea, what's the sodium content in that?

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Monday, December 3, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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