Frugal Living: 18 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the average annual cost of owning a car if paying cash in lump
sum in the beginning?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5aac132998391837?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 4:28 pm
From: "Dave L"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5vlagmF1mn95dU1@mid.individual.net...
> Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> <h> wrote
>>>>> Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> In my opinion, when you buy a new car you just pay for all the
>>>>>> repairs up front. Vehicles are like people in that they age
>>>>>> differently. Some older cars are better than some newer ones will
>>>>>> turn out to be. If you seek to be frugal, a single formula like
>>>>>> you want doesn't work. As Tom and Ray say, "The man who seeks to
>>>>>> spend the least always ends up spending the most."
>
>>>>> I buy cars that are at least 8 years old and usually keep them for
>>>>> 8-10 more years. I paid $5,000 for my 1998 Subaru (in 2007) and it
>>>>> cost an additional $600 in repairs/maintanance at that time. I keep
>>>>> my cars very well maintained, and since I only drive 3,500-4,000
>>>>> miles a year, I expect to keep this one until 2017. I work at home
>>>>> and only need the car for errands and business shopping trips, so I
>>>>> would never consider buying a new car. It just wouldn't be frugal.
>
>>>> Very understandable. I've always had a used car until my current one,
>>>> which is an '05 bought new. Yes it is normally cheaper to buy used and
>>>> the cost in repairs are cheaper than car payments. But if it's an only
>>>> car and you do more miles, there's something to be said for
>>>> reliability!
>
>>> And for minimal farting around. And it doesnt necessarily cost that much
>>> if you keep the new car for a couple of decades either.
>
>> Nope, not at all. I don't put an enormous amount of miles a year on
>> my car, but it's nowhere under 5k! From experience, there comes a
>> time when unpredictable maintenance costs start adding up.
>
> Depends entirely on how carefully you choose the car that doesnt get that
> result.

I have all of the regular maintenance done. Sometimes strange things start
going bad, such as a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and the speedometer stops
working. A clutch slave cylinder going bad. A master cylinder "washer"
going bad, and they thought it was the master cylinder! Dealer ordered the
part and was in there to replace it, and discovered it was only a worn
washer. BTW - this was on an '89 Honda Prelude, and started happening
around '04-'05. So still - wear and tear along with age, and will happen to
any car. Just depends how long it takes.

>>>> Don't want to be stuck hundreds of miles away from
>>>> home, on a holiday weekend or in the middle of the night :-)
>
>>> And its just convenient not to have to fart around repairing stuff too.
>
>> Exactly. The inconvenience of having to get the part to fix it yourself
>> or have someone else fix it. Happens at the most inopportune time as
>> well.
>
>>>> Especially for those who need to do the driving for their job
>>>> (fortunately I don't with the exception of driving to work!).
>
>>>> Of course, if bought new you'll know the maintenance you did to the car
>>>> without wondering how the previous owner took care of it. Then again,
>>>> 3,500-4,000 miles are low.
>
>>> Doesnt necessarily have that much effect on maintenance tho.
>
>> Nope. Mainly peace of mind.
>
> It isnt peace of mind either once you realise that maintenance isnt that
> important with
> modern cars as long as you do the basics like change the timing belt when
> required etc.

Exactly. Modern cars. When you have an old used car, it cannot be
considered "modern" anymore can it? I consider myself more vigilant of
maintenance than the "average" person I've seen.

-Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 6:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>> <h> wrote
>>>>>> Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> In my opinion, when you buy a new car you just pay for all the
>>>>>>> repairs up front. Vehicles are like people in that they age
>>>>>>> differently. Some older cars are better than some newer ones
>>>>>>> will turn out to be. If you seek to be frugal, a single formula
>>>>>>> like you want doesn't work. As Tom and Ray say, "The man who
>>>>>>> seeks to spend the least always ends up spending the most."

>>>>>> I buy cars that are at least 8 years old and usually keep them
>>>>>> for 8-10 more years. I paid $5,000 for my 1998 Subaru (in 2007)
>>>>>> and it cost an additional $600 in repairs/maintanance at that
>>>>>> time. I keep my cars very well maintained, and since I only
>>>>>> drive 3,500-4,000 miles a year, I expect to keep this one until
>>>>>> 2017. I work at home and only need the car for errands and
>>>>>> business shopping trips, so I would never consider buying a new
>>>>>> car. It just wouldn't be frugal.

>>>>> Very understandable. I've always had a used car until my current
>>>>> one, which is an '05 bought new. Yes it is normally cheaper to
>>>>> buy used and the cost in repairs are cheaper than car payments. But if it's an only car and you do more miles,
>>>>> there's something
>>>>> to be said for reliability!

>>>> And for minimal farting around. And it doesnt necessarily cost
>>>> that much if you keep the new car for a couple of decades either.

>>> Nope, not at all. I don't put an enormous amount of miles a year on
>>> my car, but it's nowhere under 5k! From experience, there comes a
>>> time when unpredictable maintenance costs start adding up.

>> Depends entirely on how carefully you choose the car that doesnt get that result.

> I have all of the regular maintenance done. Sometimes strange things
> start going bad, such as a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and the
> speedometer stops working. A clutch slave cylinder going bad. A
> master cylinder "washer" going bad, and they thought it was the
> master cylinder! Dealer ordered the part and was in there to replace
> it, and discovered it was only a worn washer. BTW - this was on an
> '89 Honda Prelude, and started happening around '04-'05. So still -
> wear and tear along with age, and will happen to any car. Just
> depends how long it takes.

The point tho is that with a well designed car chosen for its long life, you
can find that you only have a couple of very trivial repairs to do in 30+ years.

In my case it was just one alternator regulator.

>>>>> Don't want to be stuck hundreds of miles away from
>>>>> home, on a holiday weekend or in the middle of the night :-)

>>>> And its just convenient not to have to fart around repairing stuff too.

>>> Exactly. The inconvenience of having to get the part to fix it
>>> yourself or have someone else fix it. Happens at the most
>>> inopportune time as well.

>>>>> Especially for those who need to do the driving for their job
>>>>> (fortunately I don't with the exception of driving to work!).

>>>>> Of course, if bought new you'll know the maintenance you did to
>>>>> the car without wondering how the previous owner took care of it.
>>>>> Then again, 3,500-4,000 miles are low.

>>>> Doesnt necessarily have that much effect on maintenance tho.

>>> Nope. Mainly peace of mind.

>> It isnt peace of mind either once you realise that maintenance isnt that important with
>> modern cars as long as you do the basics like change the timing belt when required etc.

> Exactly. Modern cars. When you have an old used car, it cannot be considered "modern" anymore can it?

Yes it can when the design was something that hasnt been improved on with the latest cars.

> I consider myself more vigilant of maintenance than the "average" person I've seen.

Yes, and you have basically wasted your money doing that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Caution: Cheap Candles are Dangerous, Carcinogenic
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0cc7cd66e5105ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 5:02 pm
From: Dave

On Jan 22, 5:22 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jan 22, 5:10 pm, Anthony Matonak
>
> <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > Dave wrote:
> > > But -- it really hit home last night how dangerous some candles are,
> > > and what a health hazard they can be.
> > I hate to say this but all candles are health hazards.
>
> And, they are fire hazards.
>
> You can now buy LED battery operated candles that are safe and non-
> polluting.
>
> Seehttp://www.flamelesscandles.net/
>
> --
> Ron

I went to a trade show for the Spa industry recently, and they had a
booth there for a company that makes those battery powered flicker
candles. I would have thought that they looked cheazy, but no . . .
the booth actually looked really cool with zillions of flickering
lights. The candles were VERY realistic, but they weren't cheap. They
use a rechargeable AAA and they cost about $5 each for a tea light
sized candle.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free $10 Prepaid Debit Mastercard
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b8d4a4c56d590611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 5:15 pm
From: Bailey

Free $10 Prepaid Debit Mastercard
http://www.frugalsimplicity.com/2007/09/18/free-prepaid-mastercard-from-obopay/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Soldering eyeglass Frames
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ffd45cd171f652d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 5:17 pm
From: Sjouke Burry

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>> Please share your prescription with us.
>
>> R -2.50 -0.50x174
>> L -3.00 -1.25x175
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyeglass_prescription
>
> Both eyes are nearsighted. The first requires a cylindrical (astigmatic)
> correction of -0.5 diopters at an angle of 174 degrees.
>
> Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store supposed to
> stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters refraction and -.5
> diopters cylindrical? You'd need at least 10,000 different lenses to cover
> the common combinations. Even if the cylindrical were limited to 5-degree
> increments, you'd still need a huge number of lenses.
>
> No, no, no, no, no. I don't believe it.
>
>
>
Instead they rotate the stock lens 174 degrees, one -.5 lens
for all angles!!

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 6:09 pm
From: Richard J Kinch

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

>> Various engineering things, including optical engineering.

> Do you work for free in all your "things", or do you get paid for some
> of them?

Huh? You asked me what I did for a living. That means I get paid for
engineering. Unless I've missed your point.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 6:58 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

John Smith wrote:
>
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
> > ...
> > "offered"? You mean, you ask for them and you're told they no longer sell
> > them? Or, you don't ask and they don't mention glass as an option?
> >
> >
>
> True, I just don't see them offered. At the price I have been paying
> for plastic--I am scared to!
>
> Regards,
> JS

The cost me an extra $5.00 They didn't want to sell them, and advise
against it because of the extra weight. When I tell them I work in
electronics with chemicals that will fog plastic lenses, and splashes of
hot solder that will melt spots they agree make them.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 7:20 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> Furthermore, it would make no sense to stock all these variations, simply
> because of the capital investment involved. A store can't afford to keep
> rarely needed prescriptions in stock.
>
> Finally... The lens has to be "ground" at some point, regardless of
> whether
> it's in China or the US. Are you suggesting that it would take an
> automatic
> machine more than a few minutes to do this -- while the technician was
> doing
> something else?
>
> Nope. I still don't buy it.

You're both right. The 1 hour places stock a bunch of lenses and cut to fit
frames as needed. Not a big deal. If, however, you have more complex needs,
progressive lenses, etc, you won't get them in an hour. Those will be sent
out and the stock lenses are modified to your particular prescription.
There are many labs that do this on a regular route basis. They pick up at
the optometrist and drop them off a few days later.

The lenses are mostly plastic today. They are molded as a round lens and
cut to shape as needed and the optic center is placed as needed. The same
was done with glass lenses years ago but they make a tiny percentage of the
market today. Plastic is optically clear, safer, cheaper, lighter, easier
to work with. They are not "ground" as glass was years ago, but molded to
the proper diopter. Most of the work is done by machine and it takes but a
few minutes.

Before they moved out of town, I used to sell lens trays to American
Optical. The glass making sections of the factory were being replaced by
molding machines. They make the lenses for pennies.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 7:28 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyeglass_prescription
>
> Both eyes are nearsighted. The first requires a cylindrical (astigmatic)
> correction of -0.5 diopters at an angle of 174 degrees.
>
> Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store supposed
> to
> stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters refraction
> and -.5
> diopters cylindrical? You'd need at least 10,000 different lenses to cover
> the common combinations. Even if the cylindrical were limited to 5-degree
> increments, you'd still need a huge number of lenses.
>
> No, no, no, no, no. I don't believe it.

Round lenses rotated as needed. Clamp them into a machine and let 'er rip.
Cut to the frame size.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boo-hoo for bloodsucking retailers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/81b94728ed0f8519?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 6:15 pm
From: clams_casino

Bert Hyman wrote:

>In news:x_slj.5796$HL1.2419@newsfe21.lga clams_casino
><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Bert Hyman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com (clams_casino) wrote in
>>>news:Rhslj.25638$3b7.8092@newsfe23.lga:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's generally accepted that the stock market tends to reflect 6-18
>>>>months ahead, not what's already happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>That must explain the wild gyrations the markets go through whenever
>>>economic reports summarizing data from the previous month or previous
>>>quarter are released.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Are you suggesting you invest on what's already happened?
>>
>>
>
>Are you suggesting that I revealed anything about my own investments in
>that statement?
>
>I was simply pointing out that your assertion is wrong.
>
>
>
That businesses consider expansion & savvy investors make investments
based on future expectations vs. past events?

Good luck living in the past................

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 6:57 pm
From: Logan Shaw

clams_casino wrote:
> I merely pointed out that the market has been near static (with some
> noise) ever since this joker was first elected.

You have an extremely odd definition of the word "static" then.
Based on the numbers I see, the entire market plunged quite
dramatically, with the NASDAQ losing about half of its value,
then recovered over the next several years, so that recently
it approximately regained its peak value. If my house were
vaporized by a gigantic volcano eruption that wiped away my
entire neighborhood, and then the insurance company paid to
have the land terra-formed and the house rebuilt just exactly
like it was before, by your definition my house would have been
"near static".

> Even
> bearish CDs have outperformed the market under GW.

Yep, because GW took office at the start of a historic crash.
Newsflash: the market goes up and down. After it goes way up
for a sustained period, it eventually goes down later. During
the calendar year of 1999, the NASDAQ went up over 85%. Am I
supposed to believe that was sustainable and that if GW hadn't
taken office, the streets would've been lined with gold? A
correction was inevitable. Therefore, you can't compare the
price now with what it was when he took office.

- Logan

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ea61ccd68543df35?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boost Your Business with Quality Web & Design Services at Bargain
Prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9797020e9427d32a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 7:55 pm
From: "ada.WOSG@gmail.com"

Web Outsourcing Services Group (WOSG) is a pioneering and China-based
service provider, committed to delivering quality web & design, SEO
and internet marketing services to clients around the world.
WOSG's strength lies in our skillful staff and lower rates in China.
We have over 60 strictly selected designers and programmers; many of
our designers come from China's top design and web companies, who
conduct design work for famous international brands like Sony, Nike,
Lenovo, L'Oreal etc. In addition, a dedicated Customer Service
Assistant will be assigned to each client as a single point of
contact. Our aim is to create cost effective, unique web sites that
give your business real web presence and adhere to the latest web &
accessibility standards.
The rates for our professional services start from as low as $9 per
hour. Quality services at bargain prices, Best value for money!
Please take a look at some of the services we provide for your
business:
Custom Website Design & Redesign
Graphic and Multimedia Design (Logo, Banner, Flash, etc)
Web Application Development
Search Engine Optimization & Internet Marketing
------and more
We have served many clients like you around the world. Although our
services are not the cheapest on the internet, our solutions are the
best balancing the quality and cost based on your requirements. We
sure maximize your Return of Investment, and we will happily fulfill
all your web design needs.
You can learn more about us by downloading our flyer in PDF format
at:
http://www.WebOutsourcingServices.com/images/WOSG-Brochure-Sheet.pdf
You can also read our case study and browse our portfolio at
http://www.WebOutSourcingServices.com
Contact us via E-mail: Servi...@WebOutSourcingServices.com
Note：please don't reply this email since it was sent by system.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ubiquitous Internet Service
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64228e7d6ab531ad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 10:01 pm
From: Google Software

Few people realize that Google also gives you hundreds of cool ways to
organize and play with information. Google has added many new features
and services to its expanding universe: Google Earth, Google Talk,
Google Maps, Book Search, Video Search, Music Search, Google Base,
Google Reader, and Google Desktop among them.you will find that the
original Google has more interesting than to search functions, waiting
for you to use .

Get into the world of Google and bend it to your will!

Visit http://www.google-software.net

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 10:23 pm
From: George Grapman

Google Software wrote:
> Few people realize that Google also gives you hundreds of cool ways to
> organize and play with information. Google has added many new features
> and services to its expanding universe: Google Earth, Google Talk,
> Google Maps, Book Search, Video Search, Music Search, Google Base,
> Google Reader, and Google Desktop among them.you will find that the
> original Google has more interesting than to search functions, waiting
> for you to use .
>
> Get into the world of Google and bend it to your will!
>
> Visit http://www.google-software.net

As it happens a business group that I belong to began utilizing the
google calendar feature today. Only people in the group can use it to
either see upcoming events or add events. It also has an option that
notifies you each time an event is added.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Driving a Lemon Car?! Free Lemon Law Guide!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/011a456da8f77ebe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 22 2008 11:16 pm
From: "Simon Yorker"

I have collect many free Lemon Law information -- List of free information
on the net. To teach you what is a lemon law. What is the lemon law in your
state. How to handel a lemon car.......
Best Regards

John Clay
E-mail:XXX!!@hotmail.com
web-site: http://www.geocities.com/lawsamma/

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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