Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 24 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Replica Chole handbag, replica chloe, Chloe replica
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/da8315999b41e119?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:16 am
From: rinibaba998866@163.com

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TOPIC: M'I.5,Persecu tion , th e BB C, tel evision a nd ra dio
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c993a6759c8decf4?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:26 am
From: evfvme@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
-= the BBC, television. and radio -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=

The. first incident in June 1990 was when a BBC newsreader made what seemed
to be a reaction to something which had happened in. my home, and out of
context of what. they were reading. My first reaction was disbelief; nothing
of the sort had ever happened. before, the idea that such a thing could
occur had not crossed my mind, yet there was. no doubt of what had just
taken place.. My disbelief eroded as this recurred time after time. Besides
the news, offenders included shows such as. Crimewatch (!), Newsnight, and
"entertainment" shows. There seems to be very. little moral understanding
among the people who make these programmes; they just. assume they will
never be caught, so they carry on without a thought for the. illegality or
amorality of what. they do. The only time I ever heard a word raised in
doubt was. by Paxman being interviewed by someone else (I think by Clive
Anderson) back in. 1990; referring to the "watching" he said it troubled
him, and when asked by the host what you could do about. it, replied "Well,
you could just switch it off" (meaning the surveillance monitor. in the
studio). He. clearly didn't let his doubts stand in the way of continued
surreptitious spying. from his own or other people's shows, though.

Now you're convinced this is a troll, aren't you? This story has been. the
subject of much debate on the uk.* Usenet newsgroups for over. a year, and
some readers believe it to be an invention (it has even been. suggested that
a group of psychology students are responsible!), others. think it
symptomatic of a derangement of the author, and. a few give it credence.
Quite a. few people do know part or all of the story already, so this text
will fill in the gaps in their. knowledge. For the rest, what may persuade
you of the. third possibility is that some of the incidents detailed are
checkable against any archives of radio. and TV programmes that exist; that
the incidents involve named people (even if those hiding in. the shadows
have not. made their identity or affiliations evident), and those people
may be persuaded. to come out with the truth; and that the campaign of
harassment is continuing today both in. the UK and on the American
continent, in a none-too-secret fashion;. by its nature the significant risk
of exposure. increases with time.

On several occasions people said to. my face that harassment from the TV was
happening. On the first day I worked in Oxford, I. spent the evening in the
local pub with the company's technical director. Ian, and Phil, another
employee. Ian made a few references to me and said to Phil, as if in. an
aside, "Is he the bloke who's been on TV?". to which Phil replied, "Yes, I
think. so".

I made a number of efforts to. find the bugs, without success; last year we
employed professional. counter-surveillance people to scan for bugs (see
later) again without result. In autumn 1990 I disposed of my. TV and watched
virtually no television for the. next three years. But harassment from TV
stations has gone on for over six years and. continues to this day. This is
something that. many people obviously know is happening; yet the TV staff
have the morality of paedophiles, that because they're getting away. with it
they feel no. wrong.

Other people who were involved. in the abuse in 1990 were DJs on BBC radio
stations, notably disc jockeys from Radio 1 and. other stations (see the
following section). Again, since they. don't have sense in the first place
they can't be expect to have the moral sense not. to be part of criminal
harassment.

438

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TOPIC: M.I'5`Perse cution . bu gging an d co unter-surveillance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d4c13b8fe67323c2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:53 am
From: mfmeif@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= MI5: bugging and counter-surveillance. -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

PO: >Did you ever look for the bugs in your house. ? If not, why not ? I mean if
PO: >I. thought that was happening to me, I'd search the place from top to bottom,
PO: >I mean I live there. I would know if anything was out of place. If I was
PO: >really suspicious, I would call in one of those. bug detection teams which
PO: >have those machines that pick up the transmitted radio waves.. This
PO: >reminds me of BUGS,. that new programme on BBC1 on

That's exactly what we did. We went to a competent,. professional detective
agency in London, paid them over 400 quid to debug. our house. They used
scanner devices which go to over 1 GHz and would pick up any. nearby
transmitter in that range, they also checked. the phones and found
nothing... but. if the tap was at the exchange, then they wouldn't find
anything,. would they?

CS: >Doesn't this suggest to you that there are, in fact, no bugs to. be found?

You can assume that they've done this. sort of thing to other people in more
"serious" cases, where they. would know the targets would suspect the
presence of electronic. surveillance. So they will have developed techniques
and devices which are not readily detectable. either by visual inspection or
by electronic means. What those. techniques might be, I couldn't guess.

In this case, the existence of bugging. devices was clear from the
beginning, and they "rubbed it. in" with what was said by the boy on the
coach. It was almost as if they wanted. counter-surveillance people to be
called in, who they knew. would fail to detect the bugging devices, causing
loss of credibility to the other things I. would have to say relating to the
harassment.

I did all. the things someone in my situation would do to try to find the
bugs. In addition to calling in professional help using. electronic
counter-surveillance, I made a close. visual inspection of electrical
equipment, plus any points where audio or video surveillance devices. might
have been concealed.. Of course, I found nothing. Normal surveillance
"mini-cameras" are quite noticeable and. require visible supporting
circuitry. It seems to me the best place to. put a small video surveillance
device. would be additional to a piece of electronic equipment such as a TV
or video. It would be necessary to physically break. in to a property to fit
such a. device.

2868

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TOPIC: M I.5,Per secution , C apital Radi o - C hris T arrant
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51862b03e7af9976?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 1:20 am
From: fimveme@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
-=. Capital Radio - Chris Tarrant -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=

Capital Radio DJs have. been "in on it" from the start. One of the first
things I heard in the summer of 1990 was from a Capital. DJ who said, "If
he listens to Capital then he can't be all bad" (supportive, you see.. We're
not bastards). Much of what came. over the radio in 1990 is now so far away
the. precise details have been obliterated by time. No diary was kept of the
details,. and although archives if they exist may give pointers, the
ambiguity of what broadcasters said would leave that. open to
re-interpretation.

In spring 1994, Chris. Tarrant on his Capital morning show made an aside to
someone else in the studio, about a person. he didn't identify. He said,
"You know this bloke? He says we're. trying to kill him. We should be done
for attempted. manslaughter".

That mirrored something I had said a day or two. before. What Tarrant said
was understood by the staff member in the studio he was saying it to;. they
said, "Oh no,. don't say that" to Tarrant. If any archives exist of the
morning show. (probably unlikely) then it could be found there; what he said
was so. out of context that he would be very hard put to find an explanation.
A couple of days later, someone at the site where I was working repeated. the
remark although in a different way; they said there had been people. in a
computer room when automatic. fire extinguishers went off and those people
were. "thinking of suing for attempted manslaughter".

Finally, this isn't confined to the established radio stations. In. 1990
after I had listened to a. pirate radio station in South London for about
half an hour, there was an audible phone call in. the background, followed
by. total silence for a few moments, then shrieks of laughter. "So what are
we supposed to say now? Deadly torture? He's going to talk to. us now, isn't
he?", which meant that they could hear what I. would say in my room.

5298

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TOPIC: M,I-5,Persecuti on , c ost of t he opera tion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/33319cf91656c21a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 1:46 am
From: mifvem@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-= MI5:. cost of the operation -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here's what a couple of other people on Usenet. (uk.misc) had to say
regarding the cost of running. such an operation...

PO: >Have some sense, grow up and smell reality. What you are. talking about
PO: >would take loads of planning, tens of thousands of pounds and. lots of
PO: >people involved in the planning, execution and maintenance of it.. You
PO: >must have a. very high opinion of yourself to think you are worth it.

PM: >But why?. And why you? Do you realize how much it would cost to keep
PM: >one person under. continuous surveillance for five years? Think about
PM: >all the man/hours. Say. they _just_ allocated a two man team and a
PM: >supervisor. OK., Supervisor's salary, say,. #30,000 a year. Two men,
PM:. >#20,000 a year each. But they'd need to work in shifts -- so it would
PM: >be six men at #20,000 (which with on-costs would. work out at more like
PM:. >#30,000 to the employer.)
PM:. >
PM: >So, we're talking #30,000 x 6. #180,000. plus say, #40,000 for. the
PM: >supervisor. #220,000. Then you've got the hardware involved. And.
PM: >any transcription. that needs doing. You don't think the 'Big Boss'
PM: >would listen to hours and hours of. tapes, do you.
PM:. >
PM: >So,. all in all, you couldn't actually do the job for much less than
PM: >a quarter. million a year. Over five years. What are you doing that makes
PM:. >it worth the while of the state to spend over one and a quarter million
PM:. >on you?

Those are pretty much. the sort of calculations that went through my head
once. I stopped to consider what it must be costing them to run this
operation. The partial answer is, there have been periods when. the
intensity. has been greater, and times when little has happened. In fact,
for much of 1993 and the first half of. 1994, very little happened. Although
I. don't think that was for reasons of money - if they can tap into the
taxpayer they're not going. to be short of resources, are they?

The more complete. answer is in the enormity of what they're doing. Relative
to the cost to. British pride of seeing their country humiliated for the
persecution of their own citizens, isn't is worth the cost. of four or five
people to try to bring things to a close in the. manner they would wish? To
the government a. million or two is quite honestly nothing - if they can
convince themselves of the. necessity of what they're doing, resources will
not. be the limiting factor.

7728

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TOPIC: M-I,5`Persec ution . how an d wh y did it star t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8415a756bd50264?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:16 am
From: iveif@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start?. -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have. been there at
the outset to give it. a firm push and set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up in June 1990, and the timing. indicates someone from
university. was responsible.

>One thing which has been missing from this discussion is this. simple
>prognosis:. that maybe he is right and that, despite his admitted
>mental condition, there really. is a campaign against him organised by
>now-influential. ex-students of his university.

In May or June 1990,. Alan Freeman on Radio 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known. me for a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went. on
to. say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote there". The
indication is strongly that people I had parted from soon. before nursed a
grudge against me. and were trying to cause trouble for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown. the letter to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from. the start the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce. themselves as the
origin, but let. the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe that they were the
originators. Think about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have. a
campaign against this bloke" then people might not. go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this bloke because. he 'deserves' it"
then people will join. in with fewer qualms.

>Why would. "they" wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a cripple to. prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend hundreds of thousands. of pounds and more
than six. years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated by. people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew. me to be emotionally weak, and it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known. to be weak; and because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment, which the. security services
manipulate and derive funding from. This is England's biggest. humiliation
today, and the British security. services are intent on preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their. campaign of attempted
murder to suppress. the truth from becoming public.

10158

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TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:34 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

imascot wrote:
> =?UTF-8?B?U01TIOaWr+iSguaWh+KAoiDlpI8=?=
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:476beee3$0$84174
> $742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:
>
>> email.is.ignored@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of the discussion in this thread is about debit vs. credit
>>> cards, but the real discussion should be about credit-enabled debit
>>> cards. Your financial risk from a credit-enabled debit card is so
>>> much greater than a normal ATM card. So if debit cards are the right
>>> choice for you, by all means continue using them, just contact your
>>> bank and get a debit card which *always* requires PIN entry.
>> That really is the key point. Readers Digest should have distinguished
>> between a PIN based ATM card, and debit card that can be used like a
>> credit card with only a signature (or no signature in many cases). You
>> want to avoid the latter at all costs, but the pin-based ATM card is
>> pretty safe.
>
> Banks have done a great job of not mentioning the existence of plain vanilla
> PIN-based ATM cards, to the extent that many people, probably including the
> RD author, do not even know that they are an option (USENET readers
> excepted, of course).

I was watching Suze Ormann last night, and she was really reaming a
caller for using a debit card rather than a credit card. His initial
concern was what not using a credit card would do to his FICO score,
which she pointed out was a very real problem, but then she went on to
explain some of the other disadvantages of debit cards versus credit
cards. At least the caller understood what she was talking about and
said that he would stop using debit cards, except at gas stations that
didn't accept credit cards.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I'5`Persecu tion . how and w hy did it start?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c5c8ea7969e4f33e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:45 am
From: imvmiv@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did. it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone. must have been there at
the outset to give it a firm push and. set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up. in June 1990, and the timing indicates someone from
university. was responsible.

>One thing which has been missing from this. discussion is this simple
>prognosis: that maybe he is. right and that, despite his admitted
>mental condition,. there really is a campaign against him organised by
>now-influential ex-students of. his university.

In May or June 1990, Alan Freeman on Radio. 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known me for. a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random. precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went on
to say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote. there". The
indication is strongly that. people I had parted from soon before nursed a
grudge against me and were trying to cause trouble. for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown the letter. to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from the start. the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce themselves as. the
origin, but let the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe. that they were the
originators. Think. about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have a
campaign against this bloke" then people might. not go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this. bloke because he 'deserves' it"
then people will join in with. fewer qualms.

>Why would "they". wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a. cripple to prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend. hundreds of thousands of pounds and more
than. six years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated. by people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew me to be emotionally weak, and. it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known to be weak; and. because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment,. which the security services
manipulate. and derive funding from. This is England's biggest humiliation
today, and the British security services are intent on. preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their campaign of. attempted
murder to. suppress the truth from becoming public.

438

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TOPIC: Best prepaid or "Pay As You Go" cel plan for occasional user?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4dee5a0b0a1d2906?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:52 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

The Real Bev wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> In general you want to avoid all the prepaid services sold at places
>> like Wal-Mart. In particular, TracFone, Net10, Boost, Virgin, AT&T and
>> Verizon InPulse should be avoided.
>>
>> Go to "http://www.prepaiduswireless.com/".
>>
>> There are basically three choices for very low cost and very low use.
>> T-Mobile, which will cost you $100 the first year, but only $10 in
>> subsequent years.
>
> Perhaps a bit less. Last year Target had a sale on T-Mobile stuff --
> for something like $90 you got a $100 top-up card, a free no-frills
> phone and a $10 card. I have until March for them to have another sale,
> but one of the survey groups pays me off in Target cards so the next
> year will be free.

Yeah, I've seen those Target deals. Unfortunately T-Mobile doesn't work
well in California, though it's very slowly improving.

Refills are a bit cheaper at
"http://www.callingmart.com/products/wireless/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=35"
as well.

> The supercheap dialarounds for LD landline service seem to have
> evaporated. Either "billing fees" or exhorbitant per-call charges on
> top of the reasonable per-minute charges seem to be the order of the day.

I don't find it any more difficult to dial the OneSuite or TalkLoop
access number than dialing 1010xxx, and it's 2-2.5¢/minute. However you
have to add $10 every six months.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FreebiesPl.us Spam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f5b514c7e5534464?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:17 am
From: clams_casino

The Real Bev wrote:

> FreebiesPl.us wrote:
>
>> Free Werner ToolLasso with Beltclip
>> http://www.freebies...
>
>
> Now I see what others are complaining about. You click on this
> asshole's link and you get half a dozen (maybe more) new tabs/windows
> popping up offering crap. Bastard ought to be shot.
>

Which is exactly why abuse@abuse.earthlink.net wants to hear every time
that abusive spammer posts their spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I 5-Persecution ` who kno ws abou t i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/081be960df643dca?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:43 am
From: eiefem@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= who. knows about it? =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Many people know, both in the. establishment and media, and among the
general public. Despite an absence. of its target from the UK for more than
two years, the echoes of paranoia can still be heard loud and clear. from
across the water. When it started in 1990, the only people who knew. were
those in BBC television who were spying on my home,. and a few radio
broadcasters. There were. a few cases of public harassment, but very little
compared to the situation that developed a couple of. years later.

The list today includes BBC TV. staff (newsreaders such as Martyn Lewis,
Michael Buerk, Nicholas. Witchell), people from radio stations such as
Chris Tarrant. of Capital and Radio 1 DJs, people in the print media, but
also many people in the general public. All united. in a conspiracy which
breaks the laws which the UK does have regarding harassment,. and all
completely uncaring for any semblance of. decency or elementary respect
for individual. rights.

The. British police (obviously) do know the nature of the harassment and in
all probability the identity of those behind. it. Some time ago I made a
complaint to my. local police station in London, without positive result.
The UK police are failing in their duty. to see the law enforced in not
checking. the abuse.

2868

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TOPIC: M`I'5`Per secution . Berna rd Levin expr esses hi s views
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0a69744a44abb11?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 4:14 am
From: emfvefvif@gmail.com

The article of. which part is reproduced below was penned by Bernard Levin
for the Features section of the. Times on 21 September 1991. To my mind, it
described the situation at the time and in particular. a recent meeting with
a friend, during which I for the first time admitted to someone. other than
my GP that I had been subjected to a. conspiracy of harassment over the
previous year and a. half.

>There. is a madman running loose about London, called David Campbell; I have
>no reason. to believe that he is violent, but he should certainly be
>approached with caution.. You may know him by the curious glitter in his
>eyes. and a persistent trembling of his hands; if that does not suffice, you
>will find him attempting to thrust no fewer than. 48 books into your arms,
>all hardbacks,. with a promise that, if you should return to the same
>meeting-place next year, he will heave another 80 at. you.
>
>If, by now, the police have arrived and are keeping. a close watch on him,
>you may feel sufficiently emboldened to examine the books. The. jackets are
>a model of uncluttered typography,. elegantly and simply laid out; there is
>an unobtrusive colophon of a rising sun, probably. not picked at random.
>Gaining confidence - the lunatic is smiling by. now, and the policemen, who
>know about such. things, have significantly removed their helmets - you
>could do worse than take the jacket off the first. book in the pile. The
>only word possible to describe the binding is sumptuous; real cloth. in a
>glorious shade of dark green, with the title. and author in black and gold
>on. the spine.
>
>Look at it more closely; your eyes do not deceive you. - it truly does have
>real top-bands and tail-bands, in yellow, and, for good measure,. a silk
>marker ribbon in a lighter. green. The paper is cream-wove and acid-free,
>and the book is sewn,. not glued.
>
>Throughout the encounter, I should have mentioned, our loony has. been
>chattering away, although what he is trying to say is almost. impossible to
>understand; after a time, however, he becomes sufficiently. coherent to make
>clear that he is trying to sell the books to you. Well, now,. such quality
>in bookmaking today can only be for collectors' limited. editions at a
>fearsome. price - #30, #40, #50?
>
>No, no, he says, the glitter more. powerful than ever and the trembling of
>his hands rapidly spreading throughout his entire body; no,. no - the books
>are priced variously at #7, #8 or #9, with the. top price #12.
>
>At this, the policemen understandably put their helmets back on;. one of
>them draws his truncheon and the. other can be heard summoning
>reinforcements. on his walkie-talkie. The madman bursts into tears, and
>swears it. is all true.
>
>And. it is.
>
>David Campbell. has acquired the entire rights to the whole of the
>Everyman's Library, which died a lingering and. shameful death a decade or
>so ago,. and he proposes to start it all over again - 48 volumes this
>September and 80 more next year, in. editions I have described, at the
>prices specified. He. proposes to launch his amazing venture simultaneously
>in Britain and the United States, with the massive firepower of. Random
>Century at his back in this. country, and the dashing cavalry of Knopf
>across the water, and no one who loves literature and courage. will forbear
>to. cheer.

At the time this article was written I had believed for some. time that
columnists in the. Times and other journalists had been making references to
my situation. Nothing unusual about this you may think, plenty of. people
have the same sort of ideas and obviously. the papers aren't writing about
them, so why should my beliefs not be as false as those. of others?

What makes this article so extraordinary. is that three or four days
immediately preceding its. publication, I had a meeting with a friend,
during the course of which we discussed the media. persecution, and in
particular that by Times. columnists. It seemed to me, reading the article
by Levin in Saturday's paper, that he was describing in. some detail his
"artist's impression" of that meeting. Most telling are the. final
sentences, when he writes, "The madman bursts into. tears, and swears it is
all true. And it is." Although I did. not "burst into tears" (he seems to be
using a bit of poetic licence. and exaggerating) I did try hard to convince
my friend that it was all true;. and I am able to concur with Mr Levin,
because, of course, it. is.

At the beginning of the piece Levin reveals a fear of. being attacked by the
"irrational" subject. of his story, saying "I have no reason to believe that
he. is violent, but he should certainly be approached with caution". This
goes back to the xenophobic propaganda of "defence". against a "threat"
which was seen at the very beginning of. the harassment. The impression of a
"madman running loose" who needs to be controlled. through an agency which
assigns to itself the mantle of the "police". is also one which had been
expressed. elsewhere.

In the final paragraph of this extract, his. reference to Everyman's Library
as having "died a. lingering and shameful death a decade or so ago" shows
clearly what sort of conclusion they wish. to their campaign. They want a
permanent solution, and as they are. prevented from achieving that solution
directly, they waste significant resources on methods. which have been
repeatedly shown to be ineffective for. such a purpose.

5298

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M'I`5 Per secution Berna rd Levin expre sses h is views
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cea2522644d24f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 4:58 am
From: fmemvemf@gmail.com

The article. of which part is reproduced below was penned by Bernard Levin
for. the Features section of the Times on 21 September 1991. To my mind, it
described the situation at the time and in particular a recent meeting. with
a friend, during which. I for the first time admitted to someone other than
my GP that. I had been subjected to a conspiracy of harassment over the
previous year and. a half.

>There is a madman running loose about London,. called David Campbell; I have
>no reason to believe that he is violent, but. he should certainly be
>approached with caution. You may know him by the curious. glitter in his
>eyes and. a persistent trembling of his hands; if that does not suffice, you
>will find him. attempting to thrust no fewer than 48 books into your arms,
>all hardbacks, with a promise that, if you should. return to the same
>meeting-place next year, he will heave. another 80 at you.
>
>If, by now, the police have arrived. and are keeping a close watch on him,
>you may feel sufficiently. emboldened to examine the books. The jackets are
>a model. of uncluttered typography, elegantly and simply laid out; there is
>an unobtrusive colophon of a rising sun, probably not. picked at random.
>Gaining confidence -. the lunatic is smiling by now, and the policemen, who
>know about such things,. have significantly removed their helmets - you
>could do worse than take the jacket off the first book. in the pile. The
>only word. possible to describe the binding is sumptuous; real cloth in a
>glorious shade of dark green, with the title. and author in black and gold
>on the. spine.
>
>Look at it more closely;. your eyes do not deceive you - it truly does have
>real top-bands and tail-bands, in. yellow, and, for good measure, a silk
>marker ribbon in a lighter green. The paper is cream-wove. and acid-free,
>and the book is. sewn, not glued.
>
>Throughout the encounter, I should. have mentioned, our loony has been
>chattering away, although what he is. trying to say is almost impossible to
>understand; after a time, however,. he becomes sufficiently coherent to make
>clear that. he is trying to sell the books to you. Well, now, such quality
>in bookmaking today can only be for collectors' limited editions at. a
>fearsome price - #30, #40,. #50?
>
>No, no, he says, the glitter. more powerful than ever and the trembling of
>his hands rapidly spreading throughout his entire body; no, no - the. books
>are priced variously at #7,. #8 or #9, with the top price #12.
>
>At. this, the policemen understandably put their helmets back on; one of
>them draws his truncheon and. the other can be heard summoning
>reinforcements on his walkie-talkie. The. madman bursts into tears, and
>swears. it is all true.
>
>And it. is.
>
>David Campbell. has acquired the entire rights to the whole of the
>Everyman's Library, which. died a lingering and shameful death a decade or
>so ago, and he proposes to start it all. over again - 48 volumes this
>September and 80 more next year, in editions I have. described, at the
>prices specified. He. proposes to launch his amazing venture simultaneously
>in Britain and the United States, with. the massive firepower of Random
>Century at his back in. this country, and the dashing cavalry of Knopf
>across the water, and no one. who loves literature and courage will forbear
>to. cheer.

At the time this article was written I had believed for some time. that
columnists in the Times and other journalists had been making. references to
my situation. Nothing unusual about this you may think, plenty. of people
have the same sort of ideas and. obviously the papers aren't writing about
them, so why should my beliefs not be. as false as those of others?

What. makes this article so extraordinary is that three or four days
immediately preceding its publication, I had a meeting with a. friend,
during the course. of which we discussed the media persecution, and in
particular that by Times columnists.. It seemed to me, reading the article
by Levin in Saturday's paper, that he was describing. in some detail his
"artist's impression" of that meeting. Most telling. are the final
sentences, when he writes, "The madman bursts. into tears, and swears it is
all true. And it is." Although I did not "burst into tears" (he seems. to be
using a bit of poetic licence. and exaggerating) I did try hard to convince
my friend that it was all true; and I. am able to concur with Mr Levin,
because, of course,. it is.

At the beginning of the piece Levin reveals a fear of being. attacked by the
"irrational". subject of his story, saying "I have no reason to believe that
he is violent, but he should certainly be approached. with caution". This
goes back to the xenophobic. propaganda of "defence" against a "threat"
which was seen at the very beginning of the harassment. The impression of. a
"madman running loose" who needs. to be controlled through an agency which
assigns to itself the mantle of. the "police" is also one which had been
expressed. elsewhere.

In the final paragraph of this. extract, his reference to Everyman's Library
as having "died a lingering and shameful. death a decade or so ago" shows
clearly what sort of conclusion they wish to their campaign.. They want a
permanent solution, and as they are prevented from achieving. that solution
directly, they waste significant resources on methods which. have been
repeatedly. shown to be ineffective for such a purpose.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M I-5,Persecuti on why won' t the Brit ish p olice do t heir job an d
pu t a st op to it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6187c0af41ad9157?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:32 am
From: fvmfivefv@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= why won't the British police do their job and put a. stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know what. is taking place. Besides my
interpretations. of what individual officers have said which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them. to be unaware of something
on this. scale.

If they know, then they will know. that the abusers have broken laws in the
UK and abroad. Recently. the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which. carry a penalty of several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking place, and do nothing. about it, then they are
failing in. their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I. went into the local police station in London and spoke
to an officer about the. harassment against me. But I couldn't provide
tangible evidence; what people said, in many cases years ago,. is beyond
proof, and without something to support my statements. I cannot expect a
police officer to take. the complaint seriously.

The current situation with regard to the police is not one. which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the. one hand, most individual
officers. at a local police station may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a. complaint at that level will not yield results. Yet the police as an
organisation do know of the harassment, and. they must be aware that a
complaint has been made at a police station. So it is clearly their duty. to
take. preventative action against the continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a state agency,. the police are not
carrying out. their duty.

2868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M,I-5 Persecuti on , why won' t th e Br itish p olice do the ir jo b a
nd p ut a st op to i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/496988b073b1c0ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:43 am
From: fmfmi@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=. why won't the British police do their job and put a stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know what is taking place. Besides. my
interpretations of what individual officers. have said which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them. to be unaware of something
on this. scale.

If they know, then they will know that the. abusers have broken laws in the
UK and. abroad. Recently the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which carry. a penalty of several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking. place, and do nothing about it, then they are
failing in. their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I. went into the local police station in London and spoke
to an officer about the harassment against me. But. I couldn't provide
tangible evidence; what. people said, in many cases years ago, is beyond
proof, and. without something to support my statements I cannot expect a
police officer to take. the complaint seriously.

The current situation with regard to the police is not. one which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the one hand,. most individual
officers at a local police. station may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a complaint at that level will not yield results. Yet the. police as an
organisation do know of the harassment, and they must be aware. that a
complaint has been made at a. police station. So it is clearly their duty to
take preventative action against the. continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a. state agency, the police are not
carrying. out their duty.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Memory Foam Mattresses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e255a64d691bc4fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:53 am
From: "Tockk"

"P T" <Petepenguin@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11506-477832DB-1742@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net...
> About ten years ago I bought a foam mattress at a local furniture store.
> There were several firmness grades available, it was not some cheap
> thing, and I've been fairly satisfied with it.
>
> How is "MEMORY" foam different?

I used to know, but I forgot.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:03 am
From: "Tockk"

Memory foam is graded in pounds (of weight) per cubic foot. When you lay
down on it, it conforms more closely to your curves than will regular foam.
It will have a sort of feeling like sleeping in mud; you'll be much less apt
to toss and turn in bed. The densest stuff will be more durable, will
weigh more, will be squishyer, and will consequently cost more.

The best internet price I've seen is from some foam mattress company in
California -- San Francisco, I think. (www.foamorder.com) Last time I
looked they had regular and memory foam. The thing to do is to get 4" of
firm regular foam, and then put 4" of memory foam on top of it. Gives ya
the best of both worlds. I did that, and the memory foam lasted 6 years,
but the regular foam showed no evidence of wear.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 0 Balance Transfer Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a38580811f5d0696?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:59 am
From: sunting

balance transfers are a popular feature for credit card offers.
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If you are trying to decrease debt on the credit cards you hold a high
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I,5`Persecut ion - w hy w on't th e B ritish po lice do thei r job a
nd put a sto p to i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a6eea5b71da9945?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:10 am
From: efmfifmef@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= why. won't the British police do their job and put a stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know. what is taking place. Besides my
interpretations of what individual officers have said. which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them to be unaware. of something
on. this scale.

If they know, then. they will know that the abusers have broken laws in the
UK. and abroad. Recently the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which carry a penalty of. several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking place,. and do nothing about it, then they are
failing. in their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I went into the local police station. in London and spoke
to an officer about the harassment against me. But I couldn't. provide
tangible evidence; what people said, in many cases. years ago, is beyond
proof, and without something to support my statements I cannot expect. a
police officer to. take the complaint seriously.

The current situation with. regard to the police is not one which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the one hand, most. individual
officers at a local police station. may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a complaint at that level will. not yield results. Yet the police as an
organisation do know of. the harassment, and they must be aware that a
complaint has been made at a police station. So it is. clearly their duty to
take preventative. action against the continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a state agency,. the police are not
carrying out. their duty.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I,5`P ersecution ` abus e in set -up situat ions an d in publ ic
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/48f317ecd9274663?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:38 am
From: vefivmfe@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= abuse in set-up situations. and in public -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Strangers in the street have recognized. me on sight many times, and shown
awareness of the current thread of abuse. To give you. one example, in 1992
I was seriously ill, and a manager at work somewhat humorously said. that
"it. wasn't fair" that people were bullying me. A few days later, I attended
for. the first time a clinic in London as an outpatient, and on my way out
was accosted by someone who. asked if "they had paid my fare", with emphasis
on the word "fare". He repeated the word several times in this. different
context; that they should have paid my "fare", each time. emphasizing the
word.

For two and a half years from the time their. harassment started until
November 1992 I refused to see a. psychiatrist, because I reasoned that I
was not ill of my own action or fault, but through the stress caused. by
harassment, and that a lessening of the illness would. have to be consequent
to a removal of its immediate. cause, in other words a cessation of
harassment. I also reasoned that since. they were taunting me with jokes
about mental illness, if I were to seek treatment then the abusers. would
think that they had "won". and been proved "right". Remember, the constant
theme of any persecution. is, "we must destroy you because you're X",
whether X is a racial or other attribute. In. this case the X was "we
persecute you because you have brain disease". The similarity of this. logic
to. Nazi attitudes to the mentally ill is striking.

The same manager who'd said "it wasn't fair". asked me in winter 1992 why I
didn't seek help. from a psychiatrist; was it, he asked, because "they would
think they had won" if I sought treatment?. That was something I'd never
said at work... again, taken separately it proves. nothing, but many such
things over a period of months proves conclusively that. people in the
company knew what was going on, and in quite a lot. of detail.

Usually harassment in public lacks the level of finesse. of "paying your
fare".. Most people's imagination does not go beyond moronic parroting of
the current term of denigration. That. is not surprising given the average
level of the abusers; if they do not have the intelligence. to distinguish
wrong from right then neither will they have. the capacity for anything
other than mindless repetition of a monosyllabic. term calculated to fit
into their. minds.

The first incidents of verbal assault in public were. in again in the summer
of 1990, although they increased in frequency and venom with time. In. July
1990 the first public incident. occurred on a tube train on the Northern
line. Two men and their girlfriends. recognised me; the women sprang to my
defence,. saying "He looks perfectly normal, he doesn't look ill". Their
boyfriends of course knew better, and followed the. party line; one of them
made reference to an "operation", apparently. to work at the tube station
but implicitly to a. visit that I had made to hospital a couple of weeks
previously.

In August 1990 going home from college, soon after getting. on a tube train
at Gloucester Road I was followed by a group of four youths,. who started a
chant of abuse. That they were targeting me was. confirmed by other people
in the carriage, one of whom asked the other "who are they going. on at, is
it the bloke who just got on?" to which the second replied "yes,. I think
so". I was tempted. to reply, but as in every other instance the abusers are
enabled in their cowardice by physically outnumbering the. abused; any
confrontation would result in. my being beaten up, followed by a complaint
to the police that "he attacked us", and of course he's ill, so. he must
have been imagining that we were getting. at him. Shitty, aren't they?

But. the shittiness of the four youths on the tube train is as nothing
compared to. the episode on the National Express coach to Dover in the
summer of 1992. While going on holiday to. the Continent I was verbally set
upon by a couple travelling sitting a few rows behind. The. boy did the
talking, his. female companion contributing only a continuous empty giggling
noise. He spoke loudly to ensure other people on the. coach heard, always
about "they" and "this bloke" but never. naming either the abusers or the
person he was talking about. He said "they" had "found somebody from. his
school, and he was always really stressed at school".. They must have dug
deep to find enemies there;. perhaps someone who dropped out of school,
someone who didn't do too well later, who was jealous and keen to. get their
own back? The boy also. said "he was in a bed and breakfast for only one
night and they got him". By a not unexpected coincidence I had been. in a
B&B in. Oxford a week previously, which had been booked from work; other
things lead me to the conclusion that the company's offices were. bugged for
most of the 2. 1/2 years that I was there, so "they" would have known a room
in the B&B had been booked. (But I'll bet "they". didn't tell the company's
managers their offices were. bugged, did they?).

After a few minutes of this I went back. to where they were sitting and
asked where they were travelling. The boy named a village in France,. and
the. girl's giggling suddenly ceased; presumably it permeated to her brain
cell what the purpose of the. boy's abuse was.

This and other set-up situations are obviously calculated to. provoke a
direct confrontation. which would bring in the police, with the abusers
claiming that they. were the ones attacked. Again in 1992, outside the
house where I was living in Oxford I was physically attacked. by someone -
not punched, just grabbed by the coat, with some verbals thrown in. for good
measure. That was something the people at work shouldn't have. known
about... but soon after a couple of. people were talking right in front of
me about, "I heard he was attacked". The UK police. have a responsibility
for preventing assault occurring, but they do not seem to take. any interest
in meeting. that responsibility. I suppose their attitude is that harassment
does not come within their remit unless it. involves physical assault, and
they will only become involved once that happens. That is. of course quite
the wrong attitude. for them to take, but as I now understand, the police
investigate only the crime. they wish to investigate; if they do not take
your. complaints seriously then there is nothing you can do to make them
take. action.

2868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2 Free Digital TV Converter Box Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6d1e7335ddcdaeb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:54 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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GEAUX TIGERS!

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TOPIC: Cheap Wholesale Mid Cut AF1, Light Up AF1 Shoes From www.globwholesale.
com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1235753ff20897e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:55 am
From: globwholesale

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TOPIC: Free Insulated Can or Bottle Holder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a7224ef90ea5dfb8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:57 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0b1ba019129d06e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:10 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

Please comment on Australian Crawl, the pop music band from the
1980's. Also, where do you see copper and rare earth metals heading
in 2008 I think we will see a major cash/credit crunch in 2008. Maybe
not so much in Pacific economies, but we are global baby, so hold on.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M,I.5 Pers ecution p urpose in publici zing it; ce nsorship in u k.*
news groups
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ded54b69af072fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:11 am
From: mvmeimfm@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-= purpose in publicizing. it; censorship in uk.* newsgroups -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The postings to uk.misc newsgroup generated. a very defensive reaction from
Usenet. readers in the UK. So much so, that they tried strenuously to
suppress what. was being said, both by breaking the rules of netiquette in
their responses on the forum, and directly by action to revoke. the account
from which the postings were. issued.

Yet the postings. were within the normal boundaries of behaviour for
uk.misc, and other less partisan spectators did not. see justice in the
censorship which was. effected, as the following excerpt shows;

:Karen Lofstrom. (lofstrom@lava.net) wrote
:>It does seem that the. frequency and the size of his posts are
:>approaching net abuse. . However, IMHO, they aren't quite there yet. If
:>his postmaster were to act in this instance,. it would raise troubling
:>censorship. issues.

The inescapable conclusion of the censorship effected on. the uk.*
newsgroups is that the British are. intent on their wrongdoing remaining
concealed, and therefore seek to. subvert and suppress freedom of speech,
not only in their. own country where the media shows xenophobic bias and
bile against all perceived. enemies within and without, but also in other
countries which have. their own statutes to guarantee the basic human right
of. free speech.

It is absolutely necessary. to bring their hate campaign out into the open
where it can. be placed under scrutiny and the harassers seen for what they
are. That is. the only way of making it impossible for the security services
to carry it out. There is a wider dimension, though.. Xenophobia as
demonstrated by British people and institutions over the last few. years
belongs to the. same stable as racial hatred. In one case, two youths on a
Tube train made that racism explicit by referring to their. victim as a
"soft toy, not. up to British Standards". Doubtless others victimize partly
on the basis of. race (isn't it odd that they chose to torment someone who
is not ethnically English?) while expressing their abuse in. terms of
another genetic attribute, namely mental. illness. All xenophobia on a
genetic basis is wrong, but while racial insults. are illegal, abusing the
mentally ill is neither. against the law nor subject to similar condemnation
when it. is exposed.

5298

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