Frugal Living: 17 new messages in 8 topics

Thursday, June 19, 2008

17 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inexpensive green products website
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fcbe4fbb7e5c34e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 7:23 pm
From: wvnutt

I recently created a website featuring affordable (<$100) green
alternatives to everyday home products that help reduce energy and
water consumption. Currently, the site only features a few products
along with some tips for green living, and I am looking for additional
product suggestions. The site is intended for those who would like to
green their homes, but aren't yet prepared to spend the money required
to replace appliances, insulation, etc. In addition to products, I'd
appreciate suggests regarding the site's appearance, functionality,
etc. The site can be visited at http://www.inexpensivegreen.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2 Pieces of Information
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee3377ac1e17241f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 7:33 pm
From: clams_casino

Brandon Christian wrote:

>Friend,
>
>
>

I don't ever recall being introduced.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gore's personal electricity consumption up 10%
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c3a06925c597e291?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 7:42 pm
From: Jeff

Goomba wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>> Goomba wrote:
>
>>> Very impressive.
>>
>> But what's the electric bill? Al Gores home also has geothermal
>> heating and cooling now, as does he have a waste water recovery plan.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I'm pretty sure the electric bill on a 4K sq foot house is a lot less
> than the mansion Gore owns?

Probably, as W's home is 2 1/2 times smaller, but who knows. You can
stuff a lot of energy hungry devices in a 4000 SF home. If you read the
article (on Gore) closely you'll see that there is a lot of funny math
going on.

I commend George W on his Texas Home, now if only he lead the way he
lives at home.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal solar panels?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a5212de70d56c37d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 7:56 pm
From: Jeff

oprah.chopra@gmail.com wrote:
> Every year I get excited about installing solar panels. I then do my
> research online and quickly get discouraged by the high price tags
> and mediocre performance. Has anyone had any luck with them?

Your best investment with solar is thermal used to offset heating and
hot water. The panels cost a fraction of the PV and the efficiency is
much higher (~50%). You can buy the guts and build the boxes yourself
(and save about a half or so) if you wish. I built both, and still have
a bit of work to do. Lowering energy usage through insulation and more
efficient appliances is your best value.

As far as PV goes, there's a few things that may be coming down the
pike in about the $1/watt range.

You can ask in alt.solar.pv .

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Take a hot shower w/o your water tank
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6609772e61aaa34e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 8:37 pm
From: BeaForoni@msn.com

On Jun 17, 1:10 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 13, 9:04 am, Cheapo Groovo <c...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Just use a solar/camp shower in the summerhttp://store.sundancesolar.com/sosh5ga.html
>
> >http://www.cheapogroovo.com
>
> I've considered this for years; even without buying a special "solar"
> shower you should be able to set up a water tank that gets full sun
> exposure and then connect a hose from it to one of those backyard pool
> showers they sell at Target. Then again, you could be lazy and buy
> one of the "solar showers" they mention on this site (they also have
> the one I was talking about, just noticed they also have the solar
> ones as well):
>
> http://www.parpools.com/Page/Pool/PoolAccessories/Outdoor_showers.htm

The problem I've had with the camping solar shower is that it gets too
hot. Sure one can add cool water, but it isn't as easy to control the
temp as in a real shower.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sleazy Wall Steet/Chamber of Commerce bloats tout offshore drilling.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/965646d3be1e6878?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 9:16 pm
From: "ChairMan"

"The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.06.18.20.08.18.59660@verizon.net
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:39:39 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
>
>> <billimmelman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get
>>>> those electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other cheap
>>>> labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy solution. Fuck
>>>> 'em all!
>>>>
>>>> ted
>>>>
>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor
>>>> thing".
>>>
>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that
>>> American industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster
>>> then the first
>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>
>>> bill
>>
>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not
>> ours.
>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us
>> drilling in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>
> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
> to your MIMBY prosecution.

You believe our government? There's your problem right there
"The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's offshore
oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from Key West,
Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the restricted areas
contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural
gas."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01

And thats just off the Florida coast, that doesn't even include east and
west coast or ANWAR

WTF is MIMBY?

>
>> Just don't do it my backyard, huh?
>> You're the same people that complain about how bad Bush has made us
>> look to the rest of the world, but don't take any personal
>> responsiblity of your own for your views.
>> The word hypocrite comes to mind.
>> BTW: WTF are we saving "OUR" oil for?
>
> Petrochemicals, plastics, and other stuff. We have renewable energy.
> NO need to invest any more in the limited stuff.

Those are mostly made from byproducts.
IMO, the quicker we use it up the faster we'll be force to find
alternatives.
Besides, do we really need more "plastic stuff" or do we need our goods and
food moving?

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 9:25 pm
From: "Clave"

"ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote in message
news:4859de49$0$12270$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.06.18.20.08.18.59660@verizon.net
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:39:39 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
>>
>>> <billimmelman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get
>>>>> those electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other cheap
>>>>> labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy solution. Fuck
>>>>> 'em all!
>>>>>
>>>>> ted
>>>>>
>>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor
>>>>> thing".
>>>>
>>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that
>>>> American industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster
>>>> then the first
>>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>
>>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not
>>> ours.
>>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us
>>> drilling in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>>
>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>
> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
> feet of natural gas."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01

That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html

Jim

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 9:34 pm
From: "G.W. Hayduke"

Clave wrote:
> "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote in message
> news:4859de49$0$12270$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2008.06.18.20.08.18.59660@verizon.net
>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:39:39 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
>>>
>>>> <billimmelman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get
>>>>>> those electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other cheap
>>>>>> labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy solution. Fuck
>>>>>> 'em all!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor
>>>>>> thing".
>>>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that
>>>>> American industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster
>>>>> then the first
>>>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>>>
>>>>> bill
>>>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not
>>>> ours.
>>>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us
>>>> drilling in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>> feet of natural gas."
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>
> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.

Just your nutrient level, sludgesucker.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

ChairMan <why4@fu.com> wrote:
> "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.06.18.20.08.18.59660@verizon.net
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:39:39 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
>>
>>> <billimmelman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get
>>>>> those electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other
>>>>> cheap labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy
>>>>> solution. Fuck 'em all!
>>>>>
>>>>> ted
>>>>>
>>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor
>>>>> thing".
>>>>
>>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that
>>>> American industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster
>>>> then the first
>>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>
>>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not
>>> ours.
>>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us
>>> drilling in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>>
>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>
> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles
> from Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that
> the restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420
> trillion cubic feet of natural gas."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>
> And thats just off the Florida coast, that doesn't even include east
> and west coast or ANWAR
>
> WTF is MIMBY?
>
>
>
>>
>>> Just don't do it my backyard, huh?
>>> You're the same people that complain about how bad Bush has made us
>>> look to the rest of the world, but don't take any personal
>>> responsiblity of your own for your views.
>>> The word hypocrite comes to mind.
>>> BTW: WTF are we saving "OUR" oil for?

>> Petrochemicals, plastics, and other stuff. We have renewable energy.
>> NO need to invest any more in the limited stuff.

> Those are mostly made from byproducts.

Nope. In spades once oil starts running out.

> IMO, the quicker we use it up the faster we'll be force to find alternatives.

We have already found the alternatives. The price of oil isnt certain to be
high enough for long enough to warrant the considerable investment the
alternatives require with the exception of coal seam gas and oil sands.

> Besides, do we really need more "plastic stuff"

Yep, fuck all of what we consume isnt made of that anymore.

> or do we need our goods and food moving?

They move fine now. The only problem is the cost of moving them.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:18 pm
From: retrogrouch@comcast.net

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:16:58 -0500, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:

>while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from Key West,
>Fla.

You do understand this is just another "myth" read lie told to you by
the echo chamber. You can't find a reputable source on this anywhere.

Now swift boaters are publishing oil stories. This one reminds me of
the woman who testified on the floor of the Congress about Iraqi
soldiers ripping infants out of incubators in Kuwait. (How come no one
got prosecuted for putting her out there, by the way?)

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:22 pm
From: retrogrouch@comcast.net

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com> wrote:

>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>
>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>> feet of natural gas."
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>
>That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>
>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html

Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.

"China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.

Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
territory to domestic production.

Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
are."

I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:27 pm
From: retrogrouch@comcast.net

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
><ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>
>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>>
>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>>> feet of natural gas."
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>>
>>That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>>
>>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>
>
>Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
>shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
>Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
>the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>
>"China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
>Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
>at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
>Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
>Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>
>Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
>has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
>territory to domestic production.
>
>Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
>of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
>Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
>Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
>Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
>are."
>
>
>I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
>roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
>entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
>Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
>even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.

LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it. LOL. I
guess he realized he might be called to testify.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40994.html

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:50 pm
From: "Clave"

<retrogrouch@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kfrj54p9boku6k4cbe0a3hkaa067ke7tvc@4ax.com...

<...>

> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it. LOL. I
> guess he realized he might be called to testify.
>
> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40994.html

That is fucking PRICELESS.

Jim

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 11:40 pm
From: The Trucker

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:16:58 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

> "The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.06.18.20.08.18.59660@verizon.net
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:39:39 -0500, ChairMan wrote:
>>
>>> <billimmelman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get
>>>>> those electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other cheap
>>>>> labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy solution. Fuck
>>>>> 'em all!
>>>>>
>>>>> ted
>>>>>
>>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor
>>>>> thing".
>>>>
>>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that
>>>> American industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster
>>>> then the first
>>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>
>>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not
>>> ours.
>>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us
>>> drilling in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>>
>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>
> You believe our government? There's your problem right there

And you seem to believe whatever the Republicans tell you. I am almost
certain that it was a Republican Congressman that said that there are no
Chinese drilling in the Florida Straits. But you picked a bad one because
I am all for drilling that particular oil and the reason is exactly what
you have said. I think we can drill it a lot more safely than can the
Chinese.

> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's offshore
> oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from Key West,
> Fla.

There's that Republican lie again. You boys just can't help it. Its ion
the genes.

> The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the restricted areas
> contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural
> gas."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>
> And thats just off the Florida coast, that doesn't even include east and
> west coast or ANWAR

You can't even understand your own source. You want so desperately to
give some more of _OUR_ oil to the oil companies that you now believe
that the Florida coast has all the oil that is in the entire area marked
off limits by the Congress. Thank you for showing us that you are an
idiot.

>>
>>> Just don't do it my backyard, huh?
>>> You're the same people that complain about how bad Bush has made us
>>> look to the rest of the world, but don't take any personal
>>> responsiblity of your own for your views.
>>> The word hypocrite comes to mind.
>>> BTW: WTF are we saving "OUR" oil for?
>>
>> Petrochemicals, plastics, and other stuff. We have renewable energy.
>> NO need to invest any more in the limited stuff.
>
> Those are mostly made from byproducts.
> IMO, the quicker we use it up the faster we'll be force to find
> alternatives.
> Besides, do we really need more "plastic stuff" or do we need our goods and
> food moving?

I can see that you are the quintessential Republican.

(Republican marching hymn)

We believe in science where the word of God agrees.
We believe in science that destroys our enemies
We know the end is coming and its coming with great haste
And everything we don't (ab)use will surely go to waste.

--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 11:45 pm
From: "Clave"

"The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.06.19.06.40.51.420018@verizon.net...
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:16:58 -0500, ChairMan wrote:

<...>

>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>> offshore
>> oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from Key
>> West,
>> Fla.
>
> There's that Republican lie again. You boys just can't help it. Its ion
> the genes.

Even Cheney had to back off:

Vice President Dick Cheney's office has acknowledged that
he erred when telling an audience this week that China is
drilling off the coast of Cuba.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40994.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Buy bad PC purchase
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50979382173ee236?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:24 pm
From: George Grapman

Seerialmom wrote:
> On Jun 17, 4:42 pm, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>> josh.kapl...@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Use caution when buying a PC from Best Buy. I bought a laptop from
>>> them recently for almost $1k. The antivirus program that came with it
>>> was MacAfee, which slowed windows down quite a bit, especially in
>>> booting up time.
>>> I removed it through add/remove programs, and all of a sudden I
>>> couldn't get online anymore.
>>> I returned it to Best Buy immediately, although I had to pay the
>>> restocking fee, which Wal Mart to the best of my knowledge does NOT
>>> charge.
>>> The Geek Squad clerk tried to talk me into another laptop although i
>>> said I was not interested, this thing was junk, and I wanted a
>>> refund. They were very slow in giving me a refund and I was almost
>>> late to work as a result.
>>> I would also like to add, a friend of mine just bought a laptop from
>>> Best Buy, and after a few days, she was unable to get online. She
>>> called the Geek Squad support which she paid for and got someone in
>>> India who she could barely understand. He said take the computer into
>>> the store, which she did. The Geek Squad rep charged her $39 for a
>>> diagnostic fee although she has a full warranty. Then the Verizon
>>> people found it was a defective card and so she was charged $39 for
>>> absolutely nothing.
>>> Also, the Geek Squad clerk said not to use the back up restore discs
>>> they gave her and only let them do this if needed. They said it was
>>> because it would reformat the drive and if they had to reinstall
>>> anything these discs didn't, it would cost $200.
>> I have had two experiences with Best Buy.
>>
>> 1- I wanted a Caller ID box that would work with call waiting. The
>> only one on in stock was a display model. It took a while to find a
>> clerk who said he needed a mangers approval to sell it. He vanished and
>> I gave up after 15 minutes.
>>
>> 2- I was looking a a computer package that included a monitor. I asked
>> how much it would cost without the monitor and the clerk insisted that
>> my monitor which I got with Windows 98 would not work with XP.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> It's all about the bottom line profit...and if you believed him it
> sounds like he saw you coming a mile away ;)
Actually I walked out and went to a mom and pop place that built what
I needed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple ways to make yourself beautiful
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e1fe17a276816681?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:57 pm
From: David

Simple ways to make yourself beautiful
http://www.beautyadvice4u.blogspot.com

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