Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

Saturday, August 23, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cell phone fragility?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a5e26553db076b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 9:19 am
From: Ken

With a year Tracfone contract I was given a new LG 225 phone. This has
nice features and works well but has a stubby ~1 in. antenna sticking
out one side of the top. Does anyone know from experience if this is
fragile? Break easily? Should I be very cautious with it? I Googled but
didn't see any complaints in a quick search.

TIA

Ken

--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding iPods!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/20415c036fa62cee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 10:19 am
From: "Mocassin Joe"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-9C68DC.12140923082008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <qVTrk.16618$vX2.10322@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
> "Mocassin Joe" <jmocasanto@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:srhi-46B542.06331223082008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> > In article <U62dnai4WonIsDDVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > Steve de Mena <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>> >> > In article <LP6dnUlQWLOSejHVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> > Steve de Mena <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> I am a long time Apple user and that hasn't been my experience at
>> >> >>> all. I
>> >> >>> own one of those first generation iPod nanos, which was a gift. I
>> >> >>> also
>> >> >>> own an Apple G5 PowerMac, an Apple MacPro (Intel-based) and an
>> >> >>> Apple
>> >> >>> MacBook Pro (Intel based) and all of them work beautifully. I am
>> >> >>> using
>> >> >>> the MacBook Pro to type this message.
>> >>
>> >> >> Do you have an ATI x1900 XT graphics card in your Mac Pro?
>> >> >
>> >> > No. I have a first-generation MacBook Pro which has the Radeon X1600
>> >> > graphics card.
>> >>
>> >> You said you had a Mac Pro too. (the tower, not the laptop).
>> >>
>> >> The first generation MacBook Pros were so hot you couldn't put them on
>> >> your lap and use them. I have the 2nd gen one that fixed that
>> >> problem.
>> >
>> > Sorry, I was tired when I read your question. I have a MacBook Pro
>> > (laptop) at home and a MacPro (tower) at work in my office. I am home
>> > so
>> > I can't look at what my MacPro has, but if you write to me privately, I
>> > will tell you what graphics card it has when I am at work next, which
>> > will be this Tuesday.
>> >
>> > My MacBook Pro does get hot, but I can use it in my lap for a little
>> > while before it gets uncomfortable. I have a little platform for it
>> > though with a USB fan, which solves the problem.
>>
>> Is that little platform with fan an Apple option? My MIL has suffered
>> third
>> degree burns from using her MacBook, and I would love to buy the little
>> platform for her. Your help would be appreciated.
>
> You can buy them at any decent computer store for about $20. This
> heating problem is common on many laptops, not just Apple's. I have an
> HP laptop from work that gets just as hot, if not hotter, then my
> MacBook Pro.

Thanks for the info. That will make her happy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to select a reliable used car?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d6e74503ddeed27?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 10:35 am
From: "ChairMan"

In news:MIydnVemuYANiC3VnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@earthlink.com,
Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com>spewed forth:
> capieleo wrote:
>> good for you buddy...
>
> You can congratulate me also as I just reported both your email
> addresses and your Google Usenet account.
>
>>
>> this is just simple seo, no spam, as it will not trascend into
>> something larger like a farm... in any case, an insightful and really
>> informative source for car buying tips, car loans, calculator and
>> such is indeed SPAM and I go back and forth from
>> here to the US, as I have all my family living there, so next time,
>> reserve it.
>
> You can have a little talk about SEO with Google about this.
>
> Welcome to Usenet.
>
> Jeff

you think google gives a shit?
if they did, usenet wouldn't be filled with all the spam from g-groups
they're worse than easynews about compliance, but good luck to ya.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Use it or lose it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8826541b5009dfa9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 11:57 am
From: timeOday

JR Weiss wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt. It breaks the rule some
>>> advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as emergency savings,
>> Its a completely stupid rule when you have that type of mortgage.
>
> And what "type" is that? Since the OP didn't say what type mortgage he has,
> your response is totally baseless and worthless.
>
>

I currently have about 9 or 10 years left on a 15 year fixed, and no HELOC.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:08 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote...
>
>>Most/all ETFs will incur a brokerage fee and further penalties if withdrawn
>>prior to 30-90 days. None have guaranteed returns.

> Excuse me? What did I miss? "ET" = secondary market.... In truth,
> almost nothing has "guaranteed" returns; that term is simply a sales
> pitch.

Correct. "ETF" simply stands for Exchange Traded Fund. AFAIK, there is not one
that can legally claim guaranteed returns, even in a "sales pitch.".

> Although not my cup of tea and it's run may be over, based on
> market price a/o close of business 8/22, at $105.12, Proshares'
> Ultrashort Msci Eafe (EFU ) is up nearly 44% YTD. Tradeking's ETF
> commission is an exhorbitant $4.95....

As always, you take market risk when you invest in the stock market. While the
OP might choose a fund or security that gains 44% over 8 months, he could well
choose one that declines the same amount. For anyone who wants money available
within "a few weeks," an ETF is not a normal candidate because of significant
withdrawal penalties in the first 30-90 days in addition to any brokerage
commissions.

An ETF may well be a good choice for a medium- to long-term investment. It just
isn't suitable as an "emergency savings" vehicle where the money has to be
"safe" (another relative term) and immediately available.

> I did not infer OP to be an "old woman": As I see it, beyond the
> tax advantages of an IRA (for which "short" funds qualify) AWA a few
> laddered CDs during dry times (certainly nothing longer than 12-18
> months) the notion of "sticking" cash into a vault or a long-term
> fixed-rate instrument and hoping for the best is ludicrous when, if a
> person would spend a fraction of his NFL-watching time actually
> _managing_ his money, including investing whatever fees he may be paying
> to some "financial planner" quack, he could actually make money in good
> times or bad. Sure, most of those buy-and-holders who're losing their
> asses will eventually regain their losses but odds are they'll be dead
> by the time that happens.

We have no idea what the OP's current investment position is. While he says his
only debt is his mortgage, we do not know the positions or magnitudes of his
current investments. His criteria to us were "safe" and available "in a few
weeks." To me, that describes the emergency savings portion of his total
investments, not his long-term equity and hedge holdings. He should select the
savings vehicle accordingly.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:15 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote...
>
> I currently have about 9 or 10 years left on a 15 year fixed, and no HELOC.

That's a good position to be in, as long as it is affordable (both principal and
interest rate). You are now in the period where a significant portion of your
payment goes to principal, so additional payments won't have quite the same
level of beneficial effect they would have had at the beginning.

If you have no other savings, a HELOC is NOT what you would want to have to rely
on if you lost your job -- it could well lead to losing your house as well!

A crusty CPA once told me, "What's more important than the return ON your
investment is the return OF your investment." That's a good rule for your
"emergency savings" account. You may not get more than 4.5% on a bank CD right
now, but it's better than 1.5% and just as safe as a deposit account. Your
principal won't "dwindle to nothing," either. If your mortgage is less than
about 6% APR and you are able to take advantage of its tax deductibility, you
would be better off building your emergency savings account than paying down the
mortgage. If you have lots of excess cash flow, do some of each!

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:44 pm
From: clams_casino

JR Weiss wrote:

>"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote...
>
>
>>I currently have about 9 or 10 years left on a 15 year fixed, and no HELOC.
>>
>>
>
>That's a good position to be in, as long as it is affordable (both principal and
>interest rate). You are now in the period where a significant portion of your
>payment goes to principal, so additional payments won't have quite the same
>level of beneficial effect they would have had at the beginning.
>
>If you have no other savings, a HELOC is NOT what you would want to have to rely
>on if you lost your job -- it could well lead to losing your house as well!
>
>
True, but if you were to gradually pay down $10k against your mortgage,
you'll have much more equity to borrow than if you put $10K in a taxable
savings account.

Bottom line is you can potentially lose that house faster when you
savings run dry sooner.

>A crusty CPA once told me, "What's more important than the return ON your
>investment is the return OF your investment." That's a good rule for your
>"emergency savings" account. You may not get more than 4.5% on a bank CD right
>now, but it's better than 1.5% and just as safe as a deposit account.
>

4.5% on a CD cashable within a few weeks notice? Any examples?

> Your
>principal won't "dwindle to nothing," either. If your mortgage is less than
>about 6% APR and you are able to take advantage of its tax deductibility, you
>would be better off building your emergency savings account than paying down the
>mortgage.
>

Your math escapes me. I haven't seen a short term CD that has a higher
interest rate than a typical mortgage in some 25 years.

Any examples of 6% CDs that can be cashed within a few weeks notice?

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
>
>>
>> Considering the rapid increase in standard of living in China and
>> India over the last decade or so, and considering we do business
>> with them, it surprises me that the median US standard of living
>> really hasn't increased in a generation or so. Some things get
>> better (e.g. invention of the Internet) while others get worse (e.g.
>> affordability of beach-front property).
>>
> Why would it? Consider that China is doing things we used to do and
> thats why their standard of living increased.
>
> Previously we had lots of good paying manufacturing jobs which
> enabled a true middle class.

The real middle class never ever was involved in manufacturing jobs.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote:
> "Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote...
>>
>>> Most/all ETFs will incur a brokerage fee and further penalties if
>>> withdrawn prior to 30-90 days. None have guaranteed returns.
>
>> Excuse me? What did I miss? "ET" = secondary market.... In truth,
>> almost nothing has "guaranteed" returns; that term is simply a sales
>> pitch.
>
> Correct. "ETF" simply stands for Exchange Traded Fund. AFAIK, there
> is not one that can legally claim guaranteed returns, even in a
> "sales pitch.".
>
>> Although not my cup of tea and it's run may be over, based on
>> market price a/o close of business 8/22, at $105.12, Proshares'
>> Ultrashort Msci Eafe (EFU ) is up nearly 44% YTD. Tradeking's ETF
>> commission is an exhorbitant $4.95....
>
> As always, you take market risk when you invest in the stock market. While the OP might choose a fund or security that
> gains 44% over 8
> months, he could well choose one that declines the same amount. For
> anyone who wants money available within "a few weeks," an ETF is not
> a normal candidate because of significant withdrawal penalties in the
> first 30-90 days in addition to any brokerage commissions.
>
> An ETF may well be a good choice for a medium- to long-term
> investment. It just isn't suitable as an "emergency savings" vehicle
> where the money has to be "safe" (another relative term) and
> immediately available.
>
>> I did not infer OP to be an "old woman": As I see it, beyond the
>> tax advantages of an IRA (for which "short" funds qualify) AWA a few
>> laddered CDs during dry times (certainly nothing longer than 12-18
>> months) the notion of "sticking" cash into a vault or a long-term
>> fixed-rate instrument and hoping for the best is ludicrous when, if a
>> person would spend a fraction of his NFL-watching time actually
>> _managing_ his money, including investing whatever fees he may be
>> paying to some "financial planner" quack, he could actually make
>> money in good times or bad. Sure, most of those buy-and-holders
>> who're losing their asses will eventually regain their losses but
>> odds are they'll be dead by the time that happens.

> We have no idea what the OP's current investment position is. While he says his only debt is his mortgage, we do not
> know the positions or magnitudes of his current investments.

You dont know that he has any except that cash he is looking for a decent return on.

In fact his 'where to put my money' implys that thats all he has.

> His criteria to us were "safe" and available "in a few weeks." To me, that describes the emergency savings portion of
> his total investments, not his long-term equity and hedge holdings.

More fool you. If anything the words he used implys the opposite.

> He should select the savings vehicle accordingly.

And paying down his mortgage if its a HELOC is STILL going to produce the best after tax return.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 1:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote
> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>> I currently have about 9 or 10 years left on a 15 year fixed, and no HELOC.

> That's a good position to be in, as long as it is affordable (both principal and interest rate). You are now in the
> period where a significant portion of your payment goes to principal, so additional payments won't have quite the same
> level of beneficial effect they would have had at the beginning.

> If you have no other savings, a HELOC is NOT what you would want to have to rely on if you lost your job

Wrong. Its still a lot better than having an emergency fund
that returns the sort of dismal rate of return that he listed.

Particularly if you are the sort of indivual that can always get another job
if you lose the first one, even if its not the most ideal job. All you are
covering is the short time between jobs and the HELOC will do that fine.

> -- it could well lead to losing your house as well!

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

Consider the situation where the mortgage is already a HELOC.

You have a wad of cash that you dont like the return you are currently getting, his situation.

You use that case to pay down the mortgage.

If you do lose your job, you just draw down the mortgage by the amount of cash that
you were considering where to put, and you are much better off than you had been
if you had put that wad of cash anywhere else with anything like the same security.

There is no more risk of losing the house than if you had put that wad of cash in say a series
of CDs and in fact are at less risk of losing the house than you would have been with the CDs
because you have earned rather more on that wad of cash than you would have done with the CDs.

> A crusty CPA once told me, "What's more important than the return ON your investment is the return OF your
> investment." That's a good rule for your "emergency savings" account.

Only a fool has an emergency saving account if they have a HELOC mortgage.

You qualify.

> You may not get more than 4.5% on a bank CD right now, but it's better than 1.5% and just as safe as a deposit
> account.

And the HELOC mortgage provides a better return
again, particularly when tax is included in the calculation.

> Your principal won't "dwindle to nothing," either. If your mortgage is less than about 6% APR and you are able to
> take advantage of its tax deductibility, you would be better off building your emergency savings account than paying
> down the mortgage.

Wrong, as always.

> If you have lots of excess cash flow, do some of each!

Or tell fools like you that you dont have a clue.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:49 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote...
>
> 4.5% on a CD cashable within a few weeks notice? Any examples?

WAMU in Seattle has 4.51% on 12-18 mo CDs (as of last week; they change every
Friday). In the context of building a series of staggered CDs like the 2-month
stagger I talked about the other day, he can get to that point gradually.

>> Your principal won't "dwindle to nothing," either. If your mortgage is less
>> than about 6% APR and you are able to take advantage of its tax
>> deductibility, you would be better off building your emergency savings
>> account than paying down the mortgage.
>
> Your math escapes me. I haven't seen a short term CD that has a higher
> interest rate than a typical mortgage in some 25 years.

Rough numbers... At a 25% marginal tax rate, a 6% mortgage really "costs" 4.5%.
Since we don't know what his mortgage rate is now, we don't know what his "cost"
of putting $$ into savings vs mortgage paydown is. Also, since we don't know
his cash flow or current savings, we can only make rough guesses.

Since he's had the mortgage 5-6 years, it could be at virtually any rate from
4-9%, depending on his creditworthiness at the time he took it out. The 6%
threshold is merely a point, given some rough assumptions, that paying down the
mortgage could be seen to be more advantageous than putting the $$ in savings.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:58 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>
>> We have no idea what the OP's current investment position is. While he says
>> his only debt is his mortgage, we do not know the positions or magnitudes of
>> his current investments.
>
> You dont know that he has any except that cash he is looking for a decent
> return on.
>
> In fact his 'where to put my money' implys that thats all he has.

Nope. We have NO idea of the size of his mortgage or of the money he is looking
to place. Whatever that amount is, it could well be in addition to retirement
accounts such as IRAs and/or 401Ks, and possibly in addition to some long-term
investments he considers "untouchable." Without his input, we can make no safe
assumptions on those amounts (or lack of).

>> He should select the savings vehicle accordingly.
>
> And paying down his mortgage if its a HELOC is STILL going to produce the best
> after tax return.

He has no HELOC now. We have no idea whether he qualifies for a HELOC now, or
whether he would qualify for an amount equal to what he wants to "save." We
have no idea where he lives (other than in the US, which was part of one of the
URLs he initially posted), so we have no idea as to whether he can pay down his
mortgage enough to get a HELOC in the amount he would want. We have no idea of
his credit rating, so we don't know if he would get a HELOC at a reasonable rate
even if he met the standard 80% loan-equity criteria.

Paying down the mortgage rate will REDUCE his interest deductibility and REDUCE
the interest gotten on the $$ from the current 1.5% to 0! How is that going to
give a better after-tax return?!?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air filters, HEPA filters, HEPA purifiers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e72effb15703c4b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 11:48 am
From: "JR Weiss"

<david7gable@aol.com> wrote in message...
>
> The question is, do air filters work? We have a one-room basement
> apartment in our home, where, alas, the dust gathers in copious
> quantities, at least compared to upstairs. Would a good air filter or
> air purifier essentially remove the dust from the atmosphere? Which
> filter or purifier do you recommend?

You'll need a whole-house unit that goes in the ductwork of your
heating/air-conditioning unit. The old Honeywell electrostatic ones were good
in their day, but are expensive. There are models with HEPA filters, too.

You will have to clean the whole house first (with vacuum cleaners that have
HEPA filters) to eliminate what is there already, and keep doors & windows
closed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The DSL 12-Month Commitment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 12:46 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 1:27 pm
From: spam@nospam.org (Messiah Obama)

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:46:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
>Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
>proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
>
>
Corporate 'ho'.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 3:10 pm
From: spam@nospam.org (Messiah Obama)

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 07:28:15 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 3:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sanyon Enerloop any good?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1c30a867749390d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 1:13 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Sanyo has rechargeable battery system called Enerloop

I have a Texas Instruments 84 graphing calculator and
various other small devices that seem to eat up AA and
AAA batteries.

Would it be frugal to buy this Sanyo system instead of
throw away batteries?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Sanyo has rechargeable battery system called Enerloop
>
> I have a Texas Instruments 84 graphing calculator and
> various other small devices that seem to eat up AA and
> AAA batteries.
>
> Would it be frugal to buy this Sanyo system instead of
> throw away batteries?

Depends on whether the calculator can handle the lower battery voltage.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 1:23 pm
From: phil scott

On Aug 23, 1:59 am, "Stephanie" <h...@noway.net> wrote:
> phil scott wrote:
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWakF5XgYM&NR=1
>
> Usenet is truely dead.

was *that nice? nooo0000ooooo,

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:14 pm
From: "Stephanie"

Rod Speed wrote:
> Stephanie <haaa@noway.net> wrote
>> phil scott wrote
>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWakF5XgYM&NR=1
>
>> Usenet is truely dead.
>
> Reports of its death are greatly exaggerated.

Was it mean? What is the purpose of a politcal opinion in a group that is
supposed to be about frugality without even an off topic notifier?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Stephanie <haaa@noway.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Stephanie <haaa@noway.net> wrote
>>> phil scott wrote

>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWakF5XgYM&NR=1

>>> Usenet is truely dead.

>> Reports of its death are greatly exaggerated.

> Was it mean? What is the purpose of a politcal opinion in a group
> that is supposed to be about frugality without even an off topic notifier?

Straight over its head and into the wall behind it with a resounding clang.

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

Dont make a mess of the carpet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CNN: Half-ton woman indicted in slaying of nephew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/935cc02fc86d96ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 2:59 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

Why set bail. They know where she is - and will be certain to be able to
track her if she moves around.

BUT - the thing thats being ignored is that she violently KILLED a child.
Doesn't matter how fat - or thin - she is - she killed a child. That seems
to have been forgotten.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Millions of tires subject to recall due to blowout hazard
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e5bd68d9e7fcbe32?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 23 2008 3:24 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/consumer/recalls&id=6338125

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Saturday, August 23, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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