Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

Sunday, August 10, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's a piece of cake
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aec1987ed1f6adc7?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 11:51 am
From: fws

The two great roles a woman plays in life are that of a wife and a
mother. The Prophet , once said to a group of Companions : "The best
among you are those who are the best to their wives." This shows that
Islam highly encourages treating the wives well. They should be shown
love, respect and care. To foster the love and security that comes
with marriage, Muslim wives have various rights. The first of the
wife's rights is to receive dowry, a gift from the husband, which is
part of the marriage contract and required for the legality of the
marriage.

The second right of a wife is maintenance. Despite any wealth she may
have, her husband is obligated to provide her with food, shelter and
clothing. He is not forced, however, to spend beyond his capability
and his wife is not entitled to make unreasonable demands.

Concerning motherhood, the Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu 'alayhi
wasallam, said: "Heaven lies under the feet of mothers." This implies
that the success of a society can be traced to the mothers who raised
it. The first and greatest influence on a person comes from the sense
of security, affection and training received from the mother.
Therefore, a woman having children must be educated and conscientious
in order to be a skillful parent.

A man came to the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam, and asked:
"Who among my kinfolk is worthy of my good companionship?" The
Prophet , replied: "Your mother" three times before saying: "Your
father." This indicates the impact that a mother has in a person's
life. So women are highly honored in this great religion.

Islam is a religion that treats women fairly. The Muslim woman was
given a role, duties and rights 1400 years ago that most women do not
enjoy even today in the West. These rights are from God and are
designed to maintain a balance in society; what may seem "unjust" or
"missing" in one place is compensated for or explained in another
place
ÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜ

www.nubdalislam.net/msg/1.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/2.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/3.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/4.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/5.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/6.htm

http://www.nubdalislam.net/msg/7.htm

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:15 pm
From: Al Bundy

fws wrote:
> The two great roles a woman plays in life are that of a wife and a
> mother. The Prophet , once said to a group of Companions : "The best
> among you are those who are the best to their wives." This shows that
> Islam highly encourages treating the wives well. They should be shown
> love, respect and care. To foster the love and security that comes
> with marriage, Muslim wives have various rights. The first of the
> wife's rights is to receive dowry, a gift from the husband, which is
> part of the marriage contract and required for the legality of the
> marriage.
>
A fine story MR. Jackass, except none of it is true.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal ideas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b0fb633415061f1d?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 12:37 pm
From: phil scott

On Aug 9, 1:43 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
> What works for me - but not practical or available to everyone.
>
> Have a garden in the growing season (short) for salad greens at least.
> Layer clothes in the winter instead of turning up the heat.
> Have furnace serviced in the fall for optimum performance.
> Lock in (by prepaying some) lower propane prices for the winter.
> Used car - with regular checkups and servicing.
> Close off parts of the house not in use (especially for heating in the
> winter)
> Fill up 2 liter soda bottles with water from the tap - no bottled water (own
> well).
> No cell phone. Need dial up for computer - long distance with carrier that
> does not charge a monthly fee.
> Very low flesh food use - replace protein needs with beans.
> Use coupons when shopping and stock up when coupon/sales match.
> Combine trips - laundry/groceries. Physical Therapy/groceries/drug store.
> Buy dry goods in bulk through a food buying co-operative (comparing prices
> at grocery first)
> Pay some things in 6 month cycle - such as cable TV (basic) - prescription
> insurance (required to get state coverage), car insurance
> (yearly)
> Use fan (when necessary) instead of air conditioner.
> Mend clothes. Make some clothes from old clothes.
>
> FYI - I am 69, disabled, live in northern New York.
>
> JonquilJan
>
> Learn something new every day
> As long as you are learning, you are living
> When you stop learning, you start dying

Im in the HVAC (heating and air business0... servicing yer furnace
once a year is mostly a waste of
money. It its burners are adjusted correctly one time, they stay
that way.. you do need to keep the
filter clean though and oil the fan motor, tose are important.

If you have AC coil in the furnance that needs to be cleaned with a
special comb but thats not
done on a furnace service.

If your furnace is over 10 years old, or has a lot chucks of rust in
the burner box under the burner heards
then the heat exchanger could be cracked and leaking carbon
MONoxide... bad news. a check might
find that, but most dont have the instruments for a proper check... go
by age of the furnace.

a new 90% efficient furnace will cost you about $700 wholesale via
granger etc.. thats money better
spent than getting the old one 'serviced'.... (the 98% efficient
furnaces are pure rocket science, i dont recommend them, cost of
repairs and constant adjustments are way way too expensive).. no net
savings there.

Laky air ducts degrade perofrmance about 10% on average, dont use duct
tape to seal them, stop by a sheet metal shop and buy a bucket of duct
sealant goop from them... 20 bucks... thats best.

If you have an old furnace, buy a carbon Monoxide detector and use it.

to adjust yer burners, look at the individual points of flame, they
need to come to a blue edged point, not billowing open on top or
orange... if thats the case you need to close down the air adjustments
on the burner heads, instructions in the owners manual, or get it on
line... you should search burner adjustment photo's on google
first.... again, once set right, they generally never need to be
adjusted again.

Phil scott

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:18 pm
From: jeeppintom@webtv.net (Tommy)

Since Phil Scott mentioned coolingcoils. I clean mine every May or June
with some coil cleaner from a local HVAC store. It has to be diluted,
and will burn your hands without rubber gloves(suposed to be non-acid).
Foaming does a really good job. You will be amazed at the dirt that
comes out. Family, and friends share the cost of the cleaner.

Cost for cleaning somewhere around $5, and no service call.

Airconditioner operates more efficiently saving even more money on
electric costs, and unit longevity.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:48 pm
From: phil scott

On Aug 10, 1:18 pm, jeeppin...@webtv.net (Tommy) wrote:
> Since Phil Scott mentioned coolingcoils. I clean mine every May or June
> with some coil cleaner from a local HVAC store. It has to be diluted,
> and will burn your hands without rubber gloves(suposed to be non-acid).
> Foaming does a really good job. You will be amazed at the dirt that
> comes out. Family, and friends share the cost of the cleaner.
>
> Cost for cleaning somewhere around $5, and no service call.
>
> Airconditioner operates more efficiently saving even more money on
> electric costs, and unit longevity.

If you use a good air filter its probably not necessary to clean the
coil more than once in
5 years... most folks never clean them untill the system fails. ..
(they can get almost plugged solid with dirt).

clean coils though probably do a lot to improve ones health esp if
there are alegeries or old folks.

best air filters have the lowest pressure drop ...and... remove the
most particles. for home furnances
a 2" thick pleated filter may be your best option..... if anyone has
alergies, add one of those 90 dollar, 1" thick
'electro static' filters down wind of the pleated filter...that will
help a lot.

if you need more, buy an ionzer.... causes particles in the air to
stick to grounded surfaces (walls and floors etc)

if you need still more buy an elecronic air cleaner... those can be
expensive to maintain long term though.

thhe furnance blower wheel itself gets very little attention, very
often the curved vains in it get full of dirt, that ruins blower
efficiency... most blower/ motor assy's slide out for service, you can
check.

If you have long return air ducts, there is a good chance they leak
and suck cold air into the house... seal with duct sealant in a tube
or at the ac wholesalers in a bucket.... similar issue with the suppy
air ducts going to the registers.

***

I forgot, if you have an OIL fired furnace, you do need a pro check up
more frequently than with gas...soot can build up in the heat
exchanger ruinng its efficiency... we use the term 'pro' loosely these
days... try an old fart for
best luck.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help Burnham RSM-126 oil furnace won't heat hot water after
vacation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef6515a0b25337e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 12:39 pm
From: "RBM"

"Donita Luddington" <doniludd@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:rf0rfkfnb5dt.1da9yvxbbchbi$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Please help me. I don't know what to do. After a short vacation, my oil
> furnace won't turn on automatically for hot water. Nothing else changed.
>
> My home has a 19 year old oil furnace which says Burnham RSM-126 on a
> plate. It will not turn on automatically for hot water.
>
> I have to keep hitting the start button to make it turn on to heat the hot
> water.
>
> This problem started after I had the water and furnace turned off for 2
> weeks while I headed off on vacation.
>
> Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot this on my own? Or is this one
> item which isn't home testable since it involves oil?
>
> Donna

This is a boiler, not a furnace. Does the boiler run if you turn up a
heating thermostat? What "start switch" are you referring to? If you are
talking about a red button on the burner primary relay, the one that says
something like "push only once", you need to get an oil burner tech out.
That's a safety lockout telling you that something is malfunctioning in the
burner. Resetting it multiple times can be dangerous

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 12:47 pm
From: Phil Again

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:48:55 -0700, Donita Luddington wrote:

> Please help me. I don't know what to do. After a short vacation, my oil
> furnace won't turn on automatically for hot water. Nothing else changed.
>
> My home has a 19 year old oil furnace which says Burnham RSM-126 on a
> plate. It will not turn on automatically for hot water.
>
> I have to keep hitting the start button to make it turn on to heat the
> hot water.
>
> This problem started after I had the water and furnace turned off for 2
> weeks while I headed off on vacation.
>
> Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot this on my own? Or is this one
> item which isn't home testable since it involves oil?
>
> Donna

Sounds like you have some sort of circulating Hot Water home heating
system that also supplies heated water from a oil fired boiler to a large
potable hot water tank by way of separate piping and a circulating pump.
This is now a rare home heating system for most of the USA and Canada.

However, and whatever, device that controls the temperature inside the
H.W. tank and acts as the temperature set thermostat isn't getting it's
signal sent to your oil fired boiler and pump. It could be anything from
a simple switch you forgot to reset, to some limit switch that needs to
be manually bypassed until boiler gets up to some temp range, to....

It may not be your furnace (boiler) but some control electronics for the
boiler and H.W. Tank.

Sorry to say, but due to the your description, you may need a
professional to make a house call.

Best of luck.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:16 pm
From: "Special Ed"

Donna, I'd like to award you our weekly Booby Prize for person seeking a
solution to a real problem while providing little if any critical and
descriptive information so that people can help...

Way to go, girl!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The leeches are reaching for more
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c1f04e2aa1094da5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 12:43 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The cost of phone calls has gone down by factors of tens,
>>>>>> hundreds even...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My phone bill is higher today than it's ever been.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But are you making the same number of calls?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but we make very few phone calls - usually it's much cheaper /
>>> faster (especially for reservations, etc) / easier to use email.
>>
>> You must have an unusual calling pattern. I make more calls than
>> ever since I work at home but pay much less than I did 20 years ago.

> Our 1998 bills averaged $22.05 / month with 115 min LD / mo.

> Year to date 2008, they've averaged $28.56/mo for just 35 min long
> distance / month. Our base rate is currently $9.17/month with $16.02
> in fees / taxes using a 5 cent offpeak & 10 cent / min flat rate LD
> calling plan. Last month, our bill was $27.68 = $9.17 base rate, $1.48 for LD calls (19 minutes) and $17.03 in
> taxes / fees.

Voip would leave that for dead.

> Businesses have obviously made out well as the LD cost/min has dropped significantly, an advantage for big users.
> Casual users have realized a significant price hike due to all the fixed cost fees.

> That's not including a Trac phone that we now have for convenience when traveling, although it is rarely used & was
> not available 10 years ago.

> Seems like most cell phone users are probably paying $50 and up / month,

Not the ones that care about the cost.

> although they are probably using them 500 hrs / month considering one in every 10 drivers seem to be driving around
> just to talk on their phones.

You'll end up completely blind if you dont watch out.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Part of frugal living may be spotting the next mess before it blind
sides you.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/82578bd2c1b6f6f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:23 pm
From: manny

On Aug 7, 3:09�pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 8:15�am, Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-08-03, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:> Say for instance you owe 400,000 dollars on a house now worth 150,000
> > > dollars on the distressed market...and you are late with a mortgage
> > > payment as your employer has announced lay offs...and your skill set
> > > is retail sales clerk etc.
>
> > Frugal people (especially people whose skill set is retail sales
> > clerk) don't buy $400,000 plus houses.
>
> many did in this area, including illegal aliens on welfare.
>
> also many in the 'management' aspect of retail sales made a little
> more
> money, but the skill in a bad economy goes useless even as some
> requiring
> much more education go useless.
>
> Phil scott
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > Jonathan Grobe Books �
> > Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How can a retail sales clerk afford a home of this amount?????

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:57 pm
From: phil scott

On Aug 10, 1:23 pm, manny <manol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 3:09 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 5, 8:15 am, Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote:
>
> > > On 2008-08-03, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:> Say for instance you owe 400,000 dollars on a house now worth 150,000
> > > > dollars on the distressed market...and you are late with a mortgage
> > > > payment as your employer has announced lay offs...and your skill set
> > > > is retail sales clerk etc.
>
> > > Frugal people (especially people whose skill set is retail sales
> > > clerk) don't buy $400,000 plus houses.
>
> > many did in this area, including illegal aliens on welfare.
>
> > also many in the 'management' aspect of retail sales made a little
> > more
> > money, but the skill in a bad economy goes useless even as some
> > requiring
> > much more education go useless.
>
> > Phil scott
>
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Grobe Books
> > > Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> How can a retail sales clerk afford a home of this amount?????- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

both parents work. and the income is not documented..so the banks
used to lend that way....Ive seen some
rent out half of the rooms also.... soon most folks who bought in
the last 7 years or so will be upside down in
their houses,

then if one wage earner loses their job, or the ARM adjusts, or gas
goes much higher...the home goes into default....thats on the first
mortgage.... these begin eating a cheaper carbohudrate diet... that
prouces serious health issues about 10 years later and impedes
learning in the kids.

we should at least be thankful our CEO's are doing so well with their
incomes though... highest ever.

those holding seconds wont collect a dime... 100% loss.

i think the mess is about 20 times worse than the banks are currently
letting on.

Phil scott

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:13 pm
From: "h"

>$400,000 home.

>How can a retail sales clerk afford a home of this amount?????

They can't. That's why they're in foreclosure.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 1:23 pm, manny <manol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 7, 3:09 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 5, 8:15 am, Jonathan Grobe <gr...@netins.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 2008-08-03, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:> Say for
>>>> instance you owe 400,000 dollars on a house now worth 150,000
>>>>> dollars on the distressed market...and you are late with a
>>>>> mortgage payment as your employer has announced lay offs...and
>>>>> your skill set is retail sales clerk etc.
>>
>>>> Frugal people (especially people whose skill set is retail sales
>>>> clerk) don't buy $400,000 plus houses.
>>
>>> many did in this area, including illegal aliens on welfare.
>>
>>> also many in the 'management' aspect of retail sales made a little
>>> more
>>> money, but the skill in a bad economy goes useless even as some
>>> requiring
>>> much more education go useless.
>>
>>> Phil scott
>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan Grobe Books
>>>> Browse our inventory of thousands of used books
>>>> at:http://www.grobebooks.com-Hide quoted text -
>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> How can a retail sales clerk afford a home of this amount?????- Hide
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> both parents work. and the income is not documented..so the banks
> used to lend that way....Ive seen some
> rent out half of the rooms also.... soon most folks who bought in
> the last 7 years or so will be upside down in
> their houses,
>
> then if one wage earner loses their job, or the ARM adjusts, or gas
> goes much higher...the home goes into default....thats on the first
> mortgage....

> these begin eating a cheaper carbohudrate diet... that prouces serious
> health issues about 10 years later and impedes learning in the kids.

Mindlessly silly.

> we should at least be thankful our CEO's are doing
> so well with their incomes though... highest ever.

So is everyone else's too. Thats what inflation means, stupid.

> those holding seconds wont collect a dime... 100% loss.

> i think the mess is about 20 times worse than the banks are currently letting on.

There's always been fools like you that claim its the end of civilisation as we know it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fowl Math
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3f704369916fd0d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:27 pm
From: manny

On Jul 31, 12:03�am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Terri �<Te...@micron.net> wrote:
> >Can anyone help me figure this out, please?
>
> Maybe.
>
> >I paid .99/lb for a chicken and made some broth to freeze
> >for future use.
>
> A P pound chicken?
>
> >My yield was 1.6 lbs of *pure ground chicken meat and 7 full
> >quarts of broth.
>
> So the cost of the pure chicken was about $0.99P/1.6lb.
>
> >The ingredients that went into the broth were from the garden so I can't
> >for the life of me figure out how to calculate the cost of
> >the seeds or plants.
>
> The seeds and plants woulda been bought, no?
>
> >Water was done by irrigation water shares and by flood so
> >no pump electricity was used for watering.
>
> How do you start a flood?
>
> >The time on my electric range to cook the chicken down was
> >a total of 5 hours over the course of two days.
>
> Maybe 5 hours x 200 watts = 1 kWh worth about 10 cents.
>
> >What would the price per pound of the chicken really be
> >when all is said and done?
>
> About $(0.10+0.99P)/1.6lb.
>
> >And would I need to deduct the cost of the broth from the total?
>
> No.
>
> >I should know how to do this and it's driving me crazy.
>
> The calculations seem easy enough, but what's the goal? You might compare
> the cost of the chicken with the cost of 1.6 pounds of pure chicken from
> a deli plus the cost of 7 quarts of chicken broth in cans and calculate
> your equivalent hourly wage from that.
>
> Nick

I am still wondering how you can possibly get 7 quarts of stock from
one damn chicken??? Manoli

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:26 pm
From: clams_casino

manny wrote:

>>
>>Nick
>>
>>
>
>I am still wondering how you can possibly get 7 quarts of stock from
>one damn chicken???
>
>

S t r e t c h

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:38 pm
From: websurf1@cox.net

On Aug 5, 5:20 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> You obviously forgot that coyotes can read. They don't post much, but
> they lurk a lot.
>

They don't post. They hold up signs, usually just before their
cartoonish demise. Unfortunately, signs don't go well into the
internet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inflate yo tires? the Pledge
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3091ed9d02910976?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:34 pm
From: suds macheath

Al Bundy wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:34 pm, suds macheath <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>> Obama suggested that people have proper inflation.
>>> Limbaugh claimed he said we should over inflate them.
>>> The dittoheads believe Limbaugh.
>> "Seems like these guys [rightards] take pride in bein' ignorant"
>> B Obama
>
> Yea, but my kid bowled more than 37 when she was 4 years old.

----Could she make a 3 point shot as well?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inflation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/043c328b0526b9a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 1:44 pm
From: suds macheath

Rod Speed wrote:
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> Patricia Martin Steward wrote
>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> i just read something that inflation is more like 12-14% using pre clinton methodology. so, those of the clinton
>>>> era did something to change how we calculate inflation so it's now something like 5%. of course, figures lie and
>>>> liars figure.
>
>>> Here's what I know: we had it GOOD in the Clinton era --
>>> great economy, low unemployment, and he left a surplus behind.
>
>>> What do we have now?
>
>> You overlooked a lot of the details.
>
> Yep.
>
>> You forgot the spectacular dot com crash and the reason for it.
>
> Nothing any Prez ever gets to do anything about.
>
>> The Clintons' SEC conveniently looked the other way as pirates such As enron, MCI etc were doing their thing with the
>> result that the taxes poured in from all of the stock trading building a surplus.
>
> That wasnt the reason for the surplus.
>
>> Remember even various state governments telling us that they may even drop various taxes because they had so much tax
>> revenue money on hand?
>
> Nothing to do with the Prez either.
>
>> You may also remember that one of the Clintons main agendas was NAFTA
>
> Yep.
>
>> and other treaties designed to lower the US down to the level of other countries.
>
> Nope.
>
>> It took a couple years but it worked.
>
> Nope, it wasnt what produced the current result.
>
> Slick didnt do anything useful about bin Laden and that did produce 9/11.

---And, he would have done even less if the repubs had their way. Repubs
of the day claimed Clinton was "wagging the dog" to remove scrutiny of
his affair with Lewinsky. As soon as he was elected, Shrub's
administration dropped terrorism prevention for star wars programs.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

suds macheath <sudsmcduff@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> Patricia Martin Steward wrote
>>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>>> i just read something that inflation is more like 12-14% using
>>>>> pre clinton methodology. so, those of the clinton era did
>>>>> something to change how we calculate inflation so it's now
>>>>> something like 5%. of course, figures lie and liars figure.

>>>> Here's what I know: we had it GOOD in the Clinton era --
>>>> great economy, low unemployment, and he left a surplus behind.

>>>> What do we have now?

>>> You overlooked a lot of the details.

>> Yep.

>>> You forgot the spectacular dot com crash and the reason for it.

>> Nothing any Prez ever gets to do anything about.

>>> The Clintons' SEC conveniently looked the other way as pirates such
>>> As enron, MCI etc were doing their thing with the result that the
>>> taxes poured in from all of the stock trading building a surplus.

>> That wasnt the reason for the surplus.

>>> Remember even various state governments telling us that they may even drop various taxes because they had so much
>>> tax revenue money on hand?

>> Nothing to do with the Prez either.

>>> You may also remember that one of the Clintons main agendas was NAFTA

>> Yep.

>>> and other treaties designed to lower the US down to the level of other countries.

>> Nope.

>>> It took a couple years but it worked.

>> Nope, it wasnt what produced the current result.

>> Slick didnt do anything useful about bin Laden and that did produce 9/11.

> And, he would have done even less if the repubs had their way.

Lie.

> Repubs of the day claimed Clinton was "wagging the dog" to remove scrutiny of his affair with Lewinsky.

Corse he did. He never did anything like that any other time.

> As soon as he was elected, Shrub's administration dropped terrorism prevention for star wars programs.

Another lie. And they certainly didnt do anything like that post 9/11 when it became
obvious what terrorists could do. And there hasnt been another anything like that since.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 4:17 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Patricia Martin Steward" <impatstew@notverizon.net> wrote in message
news:djfp945a2eevofm8p7jni3l1bjvu6c860g@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:00:15 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
> <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>i just read something that inflation is more like 12-14% using pre clinton
>>methodology. so, those of the clinton era did something to change how we
>>calculate inflation so it's now something like 5%. of course, figures
>>lie
>>and liars figure.
>
> Here's what I know: we had it GOOD in the Clinton era -- great
> economy, low unemployment, and he left a surplus behind.
>
> What do we have now?

HE DID NOT LEAVE A SURPLUS. just an illusion of one. not even sure
if the money for the analog airwaves has been collected yet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: jordan shoes ,nike shoes,adidas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/299888e387331340?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:20 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Airport parking
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a3ffd0586c7477dd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:31 pm
From: clams_casino

jdoe wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:40:01 -0400, clams_casino
><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>It takes me 2+ hrs just to get to the gate (I only live 20 minutes from
>>the airport).
>>
>>
>just because you are challenged that doesn't mean your experiences
>hold true for the majority of people, I rarely get to the airport 30
>minutes prior to a flight. I don't check bags and I now how to get
>through the airports quickly
>__________________________________________
>
>

I've experienced that in a few hick town airports, but certainly not at
major airports.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 2:33 pm
From: clams_casino

jdoe wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:07:54 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
>Klipstein) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> As an example - travel between Philadelphia and NYC. Those who know
>>"The Good Deals" such as the "Chinatown Buses" get from Philly to
>>Manhattan or back for about $15 or less, maybe $12 or $10 or so. (I have
>>doubt of $10 being current.)
>> More-major bus companies have appeared to me to sell online unsold bus
>>seats between Philly and NYC for a lot less to those flexible enough to
>>ride particularly scheduled buses that more-need to have seats filled -
>>maybe a mere couple of bucks each way IIRC.
>>
>>
>
>sure those buses are cheap, but once you get there is your final
>destination anywhere near where the bus leaves you?
>In the end driving your own car turns out to be the fastest way to go,
>door to door in less time it takes to get to the bus departure
>station, ride the bus, get from the bus terminal to wherever it is you
>need to be., as another poster noted wasting time to save small
>amounts of money is wasteful too
>__________________________________________
>Never argue with an idiot.
>They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>
>

Yea right - driving into NYC is a smart move.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ot: SCHOOL 1957 vs. 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/553d5f9cf98cde1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 4:07 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

SCHOOL 1957 vs. 2007

Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking
lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car
and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and
never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized
students and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up
buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge
them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal.
Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for
ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him
a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college,
and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster
care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she
remembers
being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair
with
psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car
searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear
nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation
Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given
diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak
English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts
them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2007- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic
terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers
confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed
to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He
is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She
faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

This should hit every e-mail box to show how stupid we have become!

----------------------
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice
cannot sleep forever."--Thomas Jefferson

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide
everything." -- Josef V. Stalin

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: To juice or not.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb065ec0061ab7cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 10 2008 4:12 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

>>clams_casino wrote:

>>>AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>>

>>>>>"Clinton and Gore were responsible for pressing almost all federal
>>>>>agencies, the U.S. court system and the U.S. military onto the
>>>>>Internet,
>>>>>thus opening up America's government to more of America's citizens than
>>>>>ever before."

>>>>as most likely would have any other president during that timeframe.
>>>>no
>>>>way we'll ever know if it is something special, just to clinton.
>>>>
>>>As if McBush has any idea how to even turn on a
>>>computer..................
>>>
>>
>>To do *what* - waste time on silly Usenet groups...???
>>
>>He's a very busy guy, he has all kinds of aides and staffers and
>>underlings
>>to do his "grunt work", he doesn't need to use a computer to communicate
>>or
>>get his news...
>>
>>
> I can't imagine a CEO today who is not fully computer literate.
>
> Of course, those in McBush's generation have long retired.

and we don't know that he's not.

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