Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 15 topics

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Underlying the pandemic off idiocy in America....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8c192fa5a6b9b846?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 9:24 am
From: phil scott

On Aug 18, 10:00 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 17, 4:18 am, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > the US may still be among the best...however I do business with others
> > from around
> > the world... some nations are a lot more sane than the US by a wide
> > margin.. Norway comes
> > to mind. not a lot of others, maybe Japan.
>
> I take it you've never seen any Japanese television programs...
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Ive seen some of thier cartoons... very nice... 4 chann also came out
of japan.. now thas messy.

Phil scott

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 10:53 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Aug 19, 12:24 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:

> Ive seen some of thier cartoons... very nice... 4 chann also came out
> of japan.. now thas messy.

Japanese game shows can be quite surprising. Youtube has an
assortment.

Cindy Hamilton

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 11:11 am
From: Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Japanese game shows can be quite surprising. Youtube has an
> assortment.

ABC also has "I survived a Japanese game show" on their streaming video
site.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal hi speed internet?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47603876a73acdc1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 9:56 am
From: Jeff

nonsense@mynonsense.net wrote:
> On Aug 19, 10:39 am, Goomba <Goomb...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> nonse...@mynonsense.net wrote:
>>> I am looking for cheap hi-speed internet. My current provider, Comcast
>>> is raising the price to $60/ month but it includes basic cable which I
>>> dont care for. I notice AT&T has a $20/ month plan. Does one need to
>>> have a landline for that? If not, how much does the final bill end up
>>> being after taxes and everything?
>> Is there any reason you haven't asked AT&T that question?
>
> I asked and didn't understand their cryptic answer. I then read their
> T&C's and it seemed to say you need ATT phone service.

AT&T is perfectly opaque.

Depending on where you are, they may offer a discounted plan. They do
where I am as part of the terms of taking over Bell South.

Part of their agreement here was to offer such a landlineless
service, what is referred to as naked DSL. They make it hard to find
this option as they really don't want you to have it and in fact fought
it in court for a long time.

These discounts are for new customers only. So, you have to get this
right on signup, for if you sign up without finding the correct option,
you are no longer a new customer.

My girlfriend did a similar deal with them and they switched her to a
"better" plan and the deal went away. It took me 3 months and more than
one call to a supervisor before I got this "fixed".

I hate them, I really truly hate them.

Jeff

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 1:55 pm
From: "catalpa"

<nonsense@mynonsense.net> wrote in message
news:ae1ef6e7-7a2f-41e7-ac3f-98733f3c7a3b@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>I am looking for cheap hi-speed internet. My current provider, Comcast
> is raising the price to $60/ month but it includes basic cable which I
> dont care for. I notice AT&T has a $20/ month plan. Does one need to
> have a landline for that? If not, how much does the final bill end up
> being after taxes and everything?

You want DSL dry loop. You probably have to fight with AT&T to get it.

Here is year old information:
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/How-to-Get-2399-ATT-Dry-Loop-DSL-87863

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 1:58 pm
From: "catalpa"

"catalpa" <catalpa@entertab.org> wrote in message
news:urGqk.302$UX.76@trnddc03...
>
> <nonsense@mynonsense.net> wrote in message
> news:ae1ef6e7-7a2f-41e7-ac3f-98733f3c7a3b@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>I am looking for cheap hi-speed internet. My current provider, Comcast
>> is raising the price to $60/ month but it includes basic cable which I
>> dont care for. I notice AT&T has a $20/ month plan. Does one need to
>> have a landline for that? If not, how much does the final bill end up
>> being after taxes and everything?
>
> You want DSL dry loop. You probably have to fight with AT&T to get it.
>
> Here is year old information:
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/How-to-Get-2399-ATT-Dry-Loop-DSL-87863
>
>

After I posted that I noticed that AT&T calls it "AT&T Direct DSL" and sells
it at www.connecttoatt.com .

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 3:28 pm
From: Gordon

nonsense@mynonsense.net wrote in news:ae1ef6e7-7a2f-41e7-ac3f-
98733f3c7a3b@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

> I am looking for cheap hi-speed internet. My current provider, Comcast
> is raising the price to $60/ month but it includes basic cable which I
> dont care for. I notice AT&T has a $20/ month plan. Does one need to
> have a landline for that? If not, how much does the final bill end up
> being after taxes and everything?

Usually DSL is piggy backed onto the Landline (POTS) service.
The best pricing for DSL is available if there is also POTS
service on the line. Without POTS, the price of DSL goes up.
I don't know about AT&T, but with Verizon, the price of
DSL w/o POTS is only a buck cheaper than DSL + POTS.

Other options for frugal internet are to share your neighbors
Wi-fi. But don't steal it. Make an arrangement and agree to
pay part of their internet service.

I think I remamber that someone in this group was (still is?)
getting wi-fi access from AT&T through his local McD's.

Check the web sites of the various cell phone providers. Many
of them will have internet over cell service. The most common
service is via an Air Card. But that is also the most expensive.
There are also Phone as Modem plans that can be less expensive.
All you need is the proper phone, but you can get one pretty
cheap off of e-bay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WARNING -- SAME SPAMMER Re: Please Help...Need your recommendations -
Lasik
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/525539cb42ab1286?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 10:48 am
From: Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply

This is the same spammer who is conducting consumer research studies on
Usenet. GRRRRRR

irfanroberts@SPAMMER.com wrote:
>
> Thanks in advance for your recommendations,
>
> Irfan Roberts

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Valentine Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50d1b2c06c894c28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 10:54 am
From: clams_casino

daniel.gesel@googlemail.com wrote:

>On Aug 19, 12:04 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>freefreeho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Websites to provide Free Valentine Cards
>>>
>>>
>>and what could possibly go wrong getting free downloads from a spammer
>>in China?
>>
>>
>
>you are great clam thank you for rescuing me from this bad bad man
>
>

Hmm - A spammer and a stalker.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 3:46 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Aug 19, 1:54 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> daniel.ge...@googlemail.com wrote:
> >On Aug 19, 12:04 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >>freefreeho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>>Websites to provide Free Valentine Cards
>
> >>and what could possibly go wrong getting free downloads from a spammer
> >>in China?
>
> >you are great clam thank you for rescuing me from this bad bad man
>
> Hmm - A spammer and a stalker.

It's interesting to watch some of these postings cropping up now. Many
are people testing their new Web construction skills or wanting to
learn the language. They must not realize how transparent they are as
they misspell words and otherwise trash the language. They might start
up a site with a few pictures and things they copied off the Internet
and expect traffic to gravitate to them immediately. Another hint is
the inappropriateness of the post. In this case, who is looking for
Valentine cards at this time of year?

I feel mostly immune to viruses because I clone my HD regularly. I
don't need to chase a virus down and fix it. I will sometimes check
unfamiliar sites out and almost never get infected anyway because I
don't run script there and I believe Firefox is better protected. I
received my first message from Google last week where they questioned
a site and provided background information. It turned out to be
benign.

Still, the bottom line is that you don't have to go to these useless
sites to begin with and probably should not.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LASIK Surgery & Valentine's day cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b6e13267a98efd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 10:55 am
From: clams_casino

daniel.gesel@googlemail.com wrote:

>
>
>clams
>i appreciate your concern about spamming but being a smart ass you
>can't do much about it. i can't believe google recruits people with
>such attitude. you are not god, ok? and if something is informative it
>is not called spamming. so try not to add a hole in front of your name
>asshole.
>
>

Still stalking me, eh?

Hint - when you advertise your own site & then reply as if you are a
third party, that's SPAM.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compact Flourescent bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c541905216cc4817?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 11:22 am
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

WOW,
the msgs here are a real tutorial on CFL

RE:
"2. Frequent on/off duty, such as in motion sensor lights and
bathrooms
frequently used for short trips. "

I have heard that once a CFL is turned on, you should leave it on for
at least
15 minutes, or else its life is shortened.

So for bathroom at nite you should only use an incandescent nite lite
that you leave on.

Use incandescent for closets where you only turn on long enuf to grab
what you want

----
Want to set up many photo albums, with many levels of security?
http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=jyt6FA46W3kDo
link will save you $5 on SmugMug.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

www.Queensbridge.us <NOTvalid@queensbridge.us> wrote:
> WOW,
> the msgs here are a real tutorial on CFL
>
> RE:
> "2. Frequent on/off duty, such as in motion sensor lights and
> bathrooms
> frequently used for short trips. "
>
> I have heard that once a CFL is turned on, you should leave it on for
> at least
> 15 minutes, or else its life is shortened.

> So for bathroom at nite you should only use an incandescent nite lite that you leave on.

Makes more sense to use a CFL that you leave on instead.

That way you get more light for the same electricity used.

> Use incandescent for closets where you only turn on long enuf to grab
> what you want
>
> ----
> Want to set up many photo albums, with many levels of security?
> http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=jyt6FA46W3kDo
> link will save you $5 on SmugMug.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shoe repair & Shoe Goo?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51bfda567813c9fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 11:35 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

I have a pair of suede oxfords (Soft Spot All Day Comfort). One has a
one-inch split in it, starting at the top edge of the rubber sole, at
the heel. Does anyone know how much Shoe Goo costs compared to taking
it to be repaired? Could I use super-glue just as effectively?
Anything else I should know?

Lenona.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 3:04 pm
From: Gordon

lenona321@yahoo.com wrote in news:8d0a1bf0-a3bf-4929-b776-2de43a3b9645@
59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> I have a pair of suede oxfords (Soft Spot All Day Comfort). One has a
> one-inch split in it, starting at the top edge of the rubber sole, at
> the heel. Does anyone know how much Shoe Goo costs compared to taking
> it to be repaired? Could I use super-glue just as effectively?
> Anything else I should know?
>
> Lenona.
>

Is it actully split, So that you can poke your finger through
from the inside out? If so, then no glue is going to help you.
If the upper is separating from the sole, then it is easy to
repair. Super glue would be a poor choice, it's too brittle.
My favorite choice has been hot melt glue.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 3:27 pm
From: Al Bundy

lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a pair of suede oxfords (Soft Spot All Day Comfort). One has a
> one-inch split in it, starting at the top edge of the rubber sole, at
> the heel. Does anyone know how much Shoe Goo costs compared to taking
> it to be repaired? Could I use super-glue just as effectively?
> Anything else I should know?
>
> Lenona.

Shoe Goo or Goop is manufactured by Eclectic products and sold in 3.7
oz. tubes normally.
The exact same formula is marketed as Household Goop, Plumbing Goop,
Automotive Goop, and RV Goop. The RV Goop has UV protection added to
the mix. I have found the cheapest product is $2.97 for the Plumbing
Goop at Wal*Mart. RV Goop is the most expensive at about $3.57.

If this is a case where the heal has pulled out from the sole
material, then Goop would work if you were sure to let it dry for a
few days before using. Contact cement is the choice of shoemakers.
With both products, the technique used is important. Contact cement
should be applied in at least two coats, On the second coat, let it
dry about 10" before bringing the pieces together. The best bond could
occur if you could wait 30" before contacting the pieces, but that
depends on the solvent in the cement. You would be safe with 10".
After bringing the pieces together, you would then pound the pieces
with a suitable mallet while protecting the finish of the shoe. (This
is called stitching.) Then you might want to rubber band the shoe
together so it did not try to pull apart while curing. Let it sit for
two days.

If the leather really is split, you are in deep sushi. If you don't
care about appearance, you can do various things. Ideally, you would
put a patch piece over the split on the outside with cement.
Alternatively, if the leather is not rotten, you could actually sew
the split together if you have the proper needle. A pair of pliers can
be used to assist in pushing the needle through. A tiny drill hole
works well. The thread used should be nylon of the same color. This
nylon thread is so strong that you cannot break it with your hands
without it cutting into your skin. You'd have to buy that at a sewing
store if you don't have it.

Yes, you could do something with the shoe, but the cost of the right
items to make the repair would cost more than a professional repair if
you don't own them already. If you are merely experimenting, do
something with what you have or the Goop, which can be used on other
things and stores very well. Otherwise, see a shoe repair place if you
can find one.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: does anybody here know anything abou freecycle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/af17f8e5c05bfdd7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 11:44 am
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Aug 7, 8:38 am, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:58:53 -0700, A Veteran wrote:
> > I tried both. seems Freecycle flooded my e-mail box with so many items,
>
> Er, get a better mailer. One that allows you to presort incoming mail
> into different folders. Pan, thunderbird, etc

Yahoo allows you to do that.

I have all my Freecyle Groups
Manhattan
Queens
Brooklyn
msgs go into a
Freecycle folder.

Then I sort alphabetically.
makes it real easy.

-
Want to set up many photo albums, with many levels of security?
http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=jyt6FA46W3kDo
link will save you $5 on Smugmug.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help Burnham RSM-126 oil furnace won't heat hot water after
vacation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef6515a0b25337e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 11:57 am
From: Paul Flansburg

On Aug 10, 9:57 pm, Bruce <kbruce@KonarPlumbing<spambits>.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:16:53 -0400, Special Ed wrote:
> > seeking a solution to a real problem
> > while providing little if any critical and
> > descriptive information so that people can help...
>
> Actually, being in the business, I'd rather prefer a lot more people like
> you Special Ed, who know full well that any home boiler problem is well
> beyond the homeowner's expertise.
>
> What the homeowner needs to do is call a professional as she couldn't hope
> to solve the problem with help from this google group. Nobody here can help
> her even get to first base on this.
>
> The only way to solve this problem is to disassemble the boiler and clean
> it out pronto! We charge 120 an hour for the estimate but you get all that
> back for free once we do the work. At those prices, it doesn't pay for a
> homeowner to try to save money themselves.

Bruce,

Taking the boiler a part isn't going to fix the problem. I think I
would start with the burner....

-paul

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new tax on phone cards?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8382689e25e1cf11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:00 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Aug 1, 7:13 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, George Grapman wrote:
> > Mark Anderson wrote:
> >> In article n...@none.net says...
> >>> Are there any ways to get simple long distance outbound service any more
> >>> for under 3c a minute, with no taxes?
>
> >> I've been using onesuite.com for many years. It's 2.5 cents per minute
> >> with no BS and no setup call charges. Ironically I use it most making
> >> intraLATA calls from the city of Chicago to the burbs (around 25 miles)
> >> where AT&T charges like 6 cents/minute.
>
> > It depends on your call volume and pattern. As a heavy user with a home
> > office I prefer a land line with unlimited calls, $50 a month including
> > taxes.
>
> What are you trying to do here? Put Ohioguy into the graveyard? He wouldn't
> pay that much for a house mortgage or new car loan. And more power to
> him as that is how he prefers to live. I enjoy reading of his fiscal
> adventures.

I use Grandcentral.com for some of my calls, totally free. See
http://www.grandcentral.com/ .No tax

I use Virgin pre-pay for cell. $15.00 every three month, with tax
$16.26. They had to start charging sales tax last year as they have a
nexus in NYS. They do have 2 huge Virgin stores in Manhattan.

I use OneSuite for most of my calls including LOCAL calls here in NYC.
No tax.
As low as USA-Canada 1.9CPM! Works as prepaid phone card.
PIN not needed for calls from home or cell phone.
Compare the rates at https://www.OneSuite.com No monthly fee or
minimum.
Use Promotion/SuiteTreat Code: "FREEoffer23" for FREE time. Works FROM
many other countries.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trip Report -- Algodones Dentistry
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b9b5a7e3af81c2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:18 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

>
> I don't know how you choose a dentist. My SIL used one recommended by
> someone she knew. I picked ours because they had the most
> professional-looking webpage, handled all the procedures we needed, and
> responded promptly and in excellent English to my emailed questions.
>
Look for signs such as, "We sterilize our instruments"...(??)

Check diplomas on wall, might be from "Pedro's School of Bartending &
Dentistry"

Lots of fake dentists in bordertowns, I hear.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:26 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

On Aug 18, 12:07 am, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bottom line: DO IT!
>
> *THE GOOD*
>
> The natives are friendly. Most speak English, and if they don't there's
> somebody nearby who does.
>
> The dentists are willing to work for 4 hours or more at a sitting and
> will shoot you sufficiently full of lidocaine that you're numb the
> entire time AND MORE. I had possibly 9 (I didn't count and don't have a
> detailed bill yet) crowns and three fillings. Total chair time 16 hours
> spread over 6 days. $2700. Husband has implants, crowns, a root canal,
> a bridge and a partial. BIL had crowns, root canals and partials.
> Their work required much less chair time than mine. Implant post
> insertion and attached teeth still to go in 6 months.>

Just bein' nosy.....whaddya think it'd cost in LA for all that
work..??

> Had I accepted the offer of a private tour of the Yuma Sewage Treatment
> Plant it would have been the highlight of the trip. There is nothing to
> do in Yuma that you can't do in the town you left because there was
> nothing to do there. Plan on bringing your entertainment with you
> unless you're an alcoholic.

What...no cheap hoes on the street??

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ~Name Brand SCAM
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/24d9192f319b26f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:28 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Jul 25, 2:44 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> gsus wrote:
> >Adidas, Gap,
>
> This same scam has been spammed onto every newsgroup I've seen today,

I did not do a whois,
but if you do and
GoDaddy is the registrar,
GoDaddy will close down site quickly

==============================================================================
TOPIC: this is microsoft news
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/65e9eadd6a423b22?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 12:33 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Jul 25, 8:36 am, sex <ilayaraja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> this is microsoft newshttp://indianrailroads.blogspot.com

I am now keeping away from blogs, as they are getting spam infested.

Give us a brief.

If you want to see a Vista commercial that MS decided not to air, see
http://snipurl.com/vistacan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil for plastic laptop hinges
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c2280d0f17bcf6c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 2:06 pm
From: "John Ferrier"

get very 'difficult to move' making the
>>> screen difficult to fold up and down.
>>
>>> We have have tried 'WD-40', but that seems effective for only a very
>>> short time.
>>
>> And is bad for the plastic.
>>
>>> We are afraid to use ordinary oil as we thought it might effect the
>>> plastic.
>>
>> So does WD-40.
>>
>
> WD40 is nasty stuff with most plastics. It seems to get inside the plastic
> and
> it disintegrates suddenly and catastrophically at a later date.

Radio Spares part number 175-5880 Special plastics grease

Hope that helps John.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Should I buy a gas gussler?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fabb5d064cc35efb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 19 2008 3:01 pm
From: Jonathan Grobe

On 2008-08-16, Lou <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> "Ken Lay" <livin_la_vida_morte@skilling.the.whipping.boy> wrote in message
> news:livin_la_vida_morte-C47E75.09060015082008@news.supernews.com...
>> In article <YNqdne-BN6DL5jjVnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>> Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Drive any new car off the lot and it's immediately worth
>> > substantially less.
>>
>> Average loss immediately upon leaving the dealer's lot: 15%
>
> And how's that any different from buying say, a new pair of shoes, or a
> suit? I don't think cars are anything special in that regard.
>
When you buy a new pair of shoes you pay for it immediately. When
you buy a brand new car, you almost always pay for it over a
several year period. So if you are considering buying a new pair
of shoes you think about your old pair being worn out or out of
fashion, or you're just tired of it. But when you are considering
buying a new car there is an additional consideration: whether
you have fully paid for the car or if you will get a positive
trade-in value or if you are upside-down on the car (owe more than
you will get in trade-in).

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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