Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics

Wednesday, November 19, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama gets it! Oil is FINITE, regardless of current price.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b131e99a30a9010?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 18 2008 10:38 pm
From: Michael Coburn

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:48:52 -0500, Jeff wrote:

> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 17, 11:40 am, Enough Already <enough_alre...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>> It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
>>> Minutes interview:
>>>
>>> [quote]
>>>
>>> (CBS) Kroft: When the price of oil was at $147 a barrel, there were a
>>> lot of spirited and profitable discussions that were held on energy
>>> independence. Now you've got the price of oil under $60.
>>>
>>> Mr. Obama: Right.
>>
>> Uh, wrong. O'bama didn't get the price under $60 per barrel.
>
>
> Such answers make the right seem more brain dead than you actually
> are.
>
> If you read what you snipped then you'll see that no such implication
> was made:
>
> Kroft: Does doing something about energy is it less important now than…
>
> Mr. Obama: It's more important. It may be a little harder politically,
> but it's more important.
>
> Kroft: Why?
>
> Mr. Obama: Well, because this has been our pattern. We go from shock to
> trance. You know, oil prices go up, gas prices at the pump go up,
> everybody goes into a flurry of activity. And then the prices go back
> down and suddenly we act like it's not important, and we start, you know
> filling up our SUVs again.
>
> And, as a consequence, we never make any progress. It's part of the
> addiction, all right. That has to be broken. Now is the time to break
> it.

Yes. We get a second shot at this and lets not blow it. We need a
carbon tax with all of the funds simply refunded in the form of a
stimulus like the recent stimulus. Or even refunded as a VOTER'S
dividend (each voter gets an equal amount). That is an excise tax and
perfectly constitutional and economically stimulating.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 3:42 am
From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com

On Nov 19, 12:48 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 11:40 am, Enough Already <enough_alre...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >> It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
> >> Minutes interview:
>
> >> [quote]
>
> >> (CBS) Kroft: When the price of oil was at $147 a barrel, there were a
> >> lot of spirited and profitable discussions that were held on energy
> >> independence. Now you've got the price of oil under $60.
>
> >> Mr. Obama: Right.
>
> > Uh, wrong. O'bama didn't get the price under $60 per barrel.
>
> Such answers make the right seem more brain dead than you actually are.

That you accept blatant lies makes you seem exactly as brain dead as
you actually are.

> If you read what you snipped then you'll see that no such implication
> was made:

Correct. The implication was made where I identified it previously.

> Kroft: Does doing something about energy is it less important now
> than…
>
> Mr. Obama: It's more important. It may be a little harder politically,
> but it's more important.
>
> Kroft: Why?
>
> Mr. Obama: Well, because this has been our pattern. We go from shock
> to trance. You know, oil prices go up, gas prices at the pump go up,
> everybody goes into a flurry of activity. And then the prices go back
> down and suddenly we act like it's not important, and we start, you
> know filling up our SUVs again.
>
> And, as a consequence, we never make any progress. It's part of the
> addiction, all right. That has to be broken. Now is the time to break
> it.
>
> [end quote]
>
> Jeff

You mean when Bush said we were addicted to oil it meant nothing.
When O'bama says we are addicted to oil it means something.

I understand where you are coming from.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 3:44 am
From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com

On Nov 17, 7:41 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Enough Already" <enough_alre...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c0f4cb45-bea7-42bb-8eb3-aca46d76e5e0@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Most Republicans in recent memory would use this TEMPORARY recession-
> > based oil price drop to claim there's "plenty of oil" and vindicate
> > gratuitous V-8 engines in ego trucks.
>
> You seem to be under the impression that only Republicans drive large
> vehicles. You're wrong.

But its important to keep up the myth. Republicans are bad regardless
of what they do.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:03 am
From: Michael Coburn

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:42:13 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

> You mean when Bush said we were addicted to oil it meant nothing. When
> O'bama says we are addicted to oil it means something.

I think you have busted the code here....

The proclamation is essentially correct. When someone intelligent tells
you something it has a much larger influence then when a moron says it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Investment Videos Posted
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b5234eee4adc9c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 12:13 am
From: Tony

http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/

Only someone looking to lose every cent in the world would only have a
cash account. The dumber than dumb rule of investing... just open a cash
account.

Cheapo Groovo wrote:

> http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/
>
> http://revver.com/video/1324448/should-i-sell-my-stocks-part-ii/
>
> http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
proper manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 12:22 am
From: Tony

http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/

The jerk recommends gold and oil at the end. Trend of oil 40 dollars US
a barrel. Gold trend down to 500 US an ounce. Great recommendations the
jerk makes huh?

Cheapo Groovo wrote:

> http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/
>
> http://revver.com/video/1324448/should-i-sell-my-stocks-part-ii/
>
> http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
proper manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:53 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

How is calling me names fostering the discussion?

Gold is a safe haven and an inflation hedge for this trillion dollar
infusion of dollars. Oil is finite and the biggest consumer of oil (USA)
has politicians who have stopped talking renewables

In article <4923CCC9.65C8D802@TheDeli.Sandwich>, Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich
says...
> http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/
>
> The jerk recommends gold and oil at the end. Trend of oil 40 dollars US
> a barrel. Gold trend down to 500 US an ounce. Great recommendations the
> jerk makes huh?
>
> Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>
> > http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/
> >
> > http://revver.com/video/1324448/should-i-sell-my-stocks-part-ii/
> >
> > http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/
>
> --
> The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
>
> Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
>
> Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
> proper manners
>
> Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
>
> Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
>
> El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
>
> Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
> beyond the realm of understandability
>
> Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
>
>
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:54 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

I've posted my results on my blog - where are yours posted?

Cash accounts are part of the KISS primciple.

In article <4923CA9C.37D147E0@TheDeli.Sandwich>, Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich
says...
> http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/
>
> Only someone looking to lose every cent in the world would only have a
> cash account. The dumber than dumb rule of investing... just open a cash
> account.
>
>
> Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>
> > http://revver.com/video/681723/down-jones-industrial-average/
> >
> > http://revver.com/video/1324448/should-i-sell-my-stocks-part-ii/
> >
> > http://revver.com/video/1185870/should-i-sell-that-stock/
>
> --
> The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
>
> Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
>
> Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
> proper manners
>

> Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
>
> Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
>
> El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
>
> Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
> beyond the realm of understandability
>
> Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00 a
year
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ddfc45ecb2d7616d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 12:18 am
From: "Devil.Handsome"

"LeRoy Blue" <leroyblue@billon.net> wrote in message
news:4qb7i41e9o98l7ol4mh5l2sr2d5egh86j6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:53:32 GMT, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Wrong right winger. We have high health costs -->because the republicans
>>have spent years defeating every attempt at fixing the system.
>
> Wrong, wrong winger, The Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made
> ridiculous demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST
> TO COVER HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No
> wonder that the country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor
> unions are in bed together but we the people are the ones getting
> fucked.
>
you deserve a good fucking gomer, you morons gave us bush for
8 years and his drunken band of hillbilly fuckups, now that's some
unskilled
labor right there that cost us 1000's of times what the auto workers cost

you're just jealous that you're washing cars at hertz Honolulu for the
minimum wage aren't you gomer ?

LMAO, hell you're lucky a doofus like you has a fucking job

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 1:04 am
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/18/2008
> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >more than hold a tool.
>
> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.

Well, many of us have done the homework.
The only thing anybody with brains makes for metal-working
industries anymore,
and not only autos, and not only steel, and not only factories, is
A.I. and computers.

>
> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> imply.
>
> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Its a very good income, but its not way above the range of many others in
> >> other businesses.
> >Way above other comparative unskilled labor positions.
>
> >> The problems of the big three is the fault of managment that decided to
> >> make car people didn't want to buy.
> >That and the fact that they caved in to unreasonable wage and benefit
> >demands for unskilled labor.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 3:39 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Hey right wign asshole --> There are statements from the companies that
health costs are out of their control.

The repuks that you love, have done nothing but stop reform of the system.
Now stop your right wing idiot lying. We threw you asshole out of
office this month, because of this kind of behavior. Get on the changes
goober.

In <4qb7i41e9o98l7ol4mh5l2sr2d5egh86j6@4ax.com>, on 11/19/2008
at 06:19 AM, LeRoy Blue <leroyblue@billon.net> said:

>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:53:32 GMT, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

>>
>>
>>Wrong right winger. We have high health costs -->because the republicans
>>have spent years defeating every attempt at fixing the system.

>Wrong, wrong winger, The Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made
>ridiculous demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO
>COVER HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No wonder
>that the country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor unions are
>in bed together but we the people are the ones getting fucked.

>>Now go drivel your right wing bullshit somewhere else.

>I'd rather post facts where you dribble wrong wing bull shit. So HERE I
>AM!

>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>In <t8n6i4lb1pg6nlbjbkhgkntiuecsgrpsri@4ax.com>, on 11/19/2008
>> at 12:32 AM, Amos Nandy <amos_nandy@cebu.net> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:22:29 GMT, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>
>>>>In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e1b1@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
>>>>11/18/2008
>>>> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot120mm@hotmail.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>>>>>> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
>>>>>> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
>>>>>more than hold a tool.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
>>>>one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
>>>>imply.
>>
>>>Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made ridiculous
>>>demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO COVER HEALTH
>>>BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion, etc,) No wonder that the
>>>country is going broke...leftist liberals and labor unions are in bed
>>>together but we the people are the ones getting fucked.
>>
>>
>>>>The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
>>
>>>All of your post are stupid nonsense.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 9:23 am
From: Daniel

Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you.
That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it,
tough.

>
> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> imply.

The automakers do.

>
> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.

Just because you are unskilled labor, no need to get your panties in a
wad.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 9:55 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Nov 18, 7:32 pm, Amos Nandy <amos_na...@cebu.net> wrote:

> Yes, and the Labor Unions who supported LaBomba have made ridiculous
> demands that equal $1500 added to the price of a car JUST TO COVER
> HEALTH BENEFITS (alcohol and drug rehab, abortion,

Isn't covering abortion more cost-effective than covering childbirth
and subsequent
medical expenses until age 18?

Cindy Hamilton

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 10:42 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Stop your driveling goober. Operating/monitoring a robot line that
assembles cars is not unskilled work. Nor, is it unskilled work to
manually install parts that the robots only do part of the assembly for.

That you can't figure that out, indicates the you lack the skills for such
a job.

In <08c9d4c0-41f4-46c3-8a64-7128822bbd26@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, on
11/19/2008
at 09:23 AM, Daniel <sabot120mm@hotmail.com> said:

>On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
>> 11/18/2008
>> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
>> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
>> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
>> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
>> >more than hold a tool.
>>
>> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.

>Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you. That
>by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it, tough.

>>
>> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
>> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
>> imply.

>The automakers do.

>>
>> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.

>Just because you are unskilled labor, no need to get your panties in a
>wad.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:23 am
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Nov 19, 1:42 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> Stop your driveling goober. Operating/monitoring a robot line that
> assembles cars is not unskilled work. Nor, is it unskilled work to
> manually install parts that the robots only do part of the assembly for.
>
> That you can't figure that out, indicates the you lack the skills for such
> a job.

Well, a lot of these idiots think that anything with a wheel
attached is a robot.
Which is mostly why Adaptive A.I., RISC computers, Optical
Computers, Pv Cells,
lasers, masers, holograms, CD, DVD, HTDV, fiber optics, Solar
Energy, Wind Energy,
and On-Line-Publishing were invented to begin with.

>
> In <08c9d4c0-41f4-46c3-8a64-7128822bb...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, on
> 11/19/2008
> at 09:23 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> In <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> >> 11/18/2008
> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph, is not cash.
> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that does nothing
> >> >more than hold a tool.
>
> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for you. That
> >by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't like it, tough.
>
> >> BTW, an auto production line is worth something over $100K per hour. No
> >> one puts dumbass, unskilled labor on these lines -- as you are trying to
> >> imply.
> >The automakers do.
>
> >> The rest of your post is more stupid nonsense.
> >Just because you are unskilled labor, no need to get your panties in a
> >wad.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thermostat Setting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c56213882c5b7104?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 5:38 am
From: Napoleon

An appropriate time of the year for this post.

I keep my thermostat at 59 from 8am to 5pm and 9pm to 6am.
From 6am to 8am and 5pm to 9pm the thermostat is kept at 64. Is this
more frugal than keeping the thermostat set at 62 the entire day?

Would it be more worthwhile to keep the thermostat set lower at night
or would you use more gas just getting it up to 64 from say 56? I use
natural gas to heat and I am in upstate NY.

What are your thermostat settings, where do you live, what do you use
to heat, and did you see a savings last year from lowering it at
night?

-N

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 6:31 am
From: "h"

"Napoleon" <anarch@666yes.net> wrote in message
news:2d58i41djoa6ggfhf2gv156u9cifqgg9cf@4ax.com...
> An appropriate time of the year for this post.
>
> I keep my thermostat at 59 from 8am to 5pm and 9pm to 6am.
> From 6am to 8am and 5pm to 9pm the thermostat is kept at 64. Is this
> more frugal than keeping the thermostat set at 62 the entire day?
>
> Would it be more worthwhile to keep the thermostat set lower at night
> or would you use more gas just getting it up to 64 from say 56? I use
> natural gas to heat and I am in upstate NY.
>
> What are your thermostat settings, where do you live, what do you use
> to heat, and did you see a savings last year from lowering it at
> night?
>
> -N

We used to use a set-back and found no cost savings. I'm in upstate NY too,
and I have oil heat with three zones. The livingroom is kept at 50 unless
we're using it (rarely). The downstairs and upstairs zones are set at a
constant 60, 24x7. We work at home, so someone is in the house at all times.
We used to set it at 65 during the day and 55 at night, but there was no
cost savings as compared to just leaving it at 60 all the time. The house is
somewhere between 55-60 at all times, and that's plenty warm as long as you
wear a sweater or have several blankets on the bed.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:41 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:

> An appropriate time of the year for this post.

> I keep my thermostat at 59 from 8am to 5pm and 9pm to 6am.
> From 6am to 8am and 5pm to 9pm the thermostat is kept at 64. Is
> this more frugal than keeping the thermostat set at 62 the entire day?

Should be, because you're at the higher temp for only 5 hours
a day and so the losses will be lower for the rest of the time.

It may be hard to see in the bill tho with such small temperature differences.

> Would it be more worthwhile to keep the thermostat set lower at night

Yes, because you would lose less heat during that time.

> or would you use more gas just getting it up to 64 from say 56?

No. You can get an effect like that with a heat pump, but not with gas.

> I use natural gas to heat and I am in upstate NY.

> What are your thermostat settings, where do you live, what do you use
> to heat, and did you see a savings last year from lowering it at night?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How you can save fuel and the environment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/29147f37f33b890a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 6:12 am
From: meow2222@care2.com

Energy Saver wrote:

> Driving and Car Maintenance Transportation accounts for 66% of U.S.
> oil use -mainly in the form of gasoline. Luckily, there are plenty of
> ways to improve gas mileage.
>
> Driving Tips:- Idling gets you 0 miles per gallon. The best way to
> warm up a vehicle is to drive it. No more than 30 seconds of idling
> on
> winter days is needed. Anything more simply wastes fuel and increases
> emissions.- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and
> hard
> braking) wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage 33% and
> city mileage 5%.

> Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are
> enough; you can save up to 30%.

Anyone who think thats more important than responding to the
requirements of the road and surrounding traffic worries me. Maybe it
would work better in US on long empty roads, here such a driver would
be an absolute menace, and risk prosecution.

> Even a Porsche can be driven at the
> 4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
> fuel consumption.- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65
> mph, could cut your fuel economy by 15%.- When you use overdrive
> gearing, your cars engine speed goes down. This saves gas and reduces
> wear.- Use air conditioning only when necessary.- Clear out your car;
> extra weight decreases gas mileage. Each 60 pounds increases fuel
> consumption by 10%. - Reduce drag by placing items inside
> the car or trunk rather than on roof racks.

roof racks are normally only used when putting it inside the vehicle
is not practical.

> A roof rack or carrier
> provides additional cargo space and may allow you to buy a smaller
> car. However, a loaded roof rack can decrease your fuel economy by
> 5%.-

Occasionally. And owning a smaller car decreases fuel use by how much
all the time?

> Check into carpooling and public transit to cut mileage

car pooling increases mileage, unless everyone in the pool lives at
the same address.

> and car
> maintenance costs.
>
>
> Car Maintenance Tips:- Use the grade of motor oil recommended by your
> cars manufacturer. Using a different motor oil can lower your
> gasoline
> mileage by 1% to 2%.

again there are more important issues. If your engine needs a grade of
oil other than the mfr recommends, as some worn engines do, and many
engines operated in temperature extremes do, you dont gain by sticking
to the recommendations, you just end up burning oil, wasting resources
and polluting, or in the case of cold climates waste fuel and increase
engine wear, wasting resources.

> - Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to
> improve your gasoline mileage by around 3.3%.-

> Get regular engine
> tune-
> ups and car maintenance checks to avoid fuel economy problems due to
> worn spark plugs, dragging brakes, low transmission fluid, or
> transmission problems.- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas
> mileage by as much as 10% and protect your engine.

These tips (all except binding brakes) apply to mechanically governed
cars. New cars havent been mechanically governed for many years now.

> - Combine errands
> into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken from a cold start,
> can use twice as much fuel as one trip covering the same distance
> when
> the engine is warm. Do not forget that in the first mile your car
> uses
> 8 times more fuel,

as if

> in the second mile 4 times and only after the
> fourth mile it becomes normal.Long-Term Savings Tip- Consider buying
> a
> highly fuel-efficient vehicle. A fuelefficient vehicle, a hybrid
> vehicle, or an alternative fuel vehicle could save you a lot at the
> gas pump

alt fuels are alt fuels precisely because they dont. If they did we'd
all be using them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: streaming adult videos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5cd6152e02bf3e9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 6:28 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: anyone make a wifi finder with internet telephone capabilities?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81d9c571716583a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 10:59 am
From: OhioGuy

I'm wondering if anyone makes some sort of pocket pc that is wifi
enabled, and has enough 'horsepower' to run Yahoo Messenger?

I'd like something like that that would work with a plain vanilla
headset, and let me do voice calls over the Internet whenever the thing
finds an open wifi hotspot.

Obviously, I can buy a laptop for $400 that will do this, but I was
hoping that by now there would be something smaller with the same
capabilities, and hopefully cheaper. ($200 or less)

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:10 am
From: kayak44

On Nov 19, 1:59 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone makes some sort of pocket pc that is wifi
> enabled, and has enough 'horsepower' to run Yahoo Messenger?
>
> I'd like something like that that would work with a plain vanilla
> headset, and let me do voice calls over the Internet whenever the thing
> finds an open wifi hotspot.
>
> Obviously, I can buy a laptop for $400 that will do this, but I was
> hoping that by now there would be something smaller with the same
> capabilities, and hopefully cheaper. ($200 or less)
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks!

I'm surprised you can even get yourself dressed without asking about
it on a newsgroup.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone makes some sort of pocket pc that is wifi
> enabled, and has enough 'horsepower' to run Yahoo Messenger?

> I'd like something like that that would work with a plain vanilla
> headset, and let me do voice calls over the Internet whenever the
> thing finds an open wifi hotspot.

> Obviously, I can buy a laptop for $400 that will do this, but I was
> hoping that by now there would be something smaller with the same
> capabilities, and hopefully cheaper. ($200 or less)

Some of the better cellphone will do that, like the Nokia N95 and N96.

They have a built in voip too.

> Can anyone point me in the right direction?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sample Complaint Letter
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/475c500b88e7b4e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 11:55 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

(date)

John Jones
Regional Vice President
ABCD Company
500 Main Street
Suite 100
Anywhere, USA

Dear Mr. Jones,

I regret having to write to you about an unpleasant experience I've had
with your company. I prefer to contact a company only in praise of an
employee or the company's actions. Unfortunately, my situation is such
that it is necessary for me to forward a complaint to you.

(In this area, give the specifics of the complaint. Say who you've
spoken with about the problem, what attempts you've made to solve it and
what specific action you would like. I always ask for coupons or some
type of compensation)

I look forward to hearing from you within 30 days, so that we are able
to resolve this problem in a speedy fashion.

Sincerely,

(your name)
(your address)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2008 1:56 pm
From: Al Bundy

Cheapo Groovo wrote:
> (date)
>
> John Jones
> Regional Vice President
> ABCD Company
> 500 Main Street
> Suite 100
> Anywhere, USA
>
> Dear Mr. Jones,
>
> I regret having to write to you about an unpleasant experience I've had
> with your company. I prefer to contact a company only in praise of an
> employee or the company's actions. Unfortunately, my situation is such
> that it is necessary for me to forward a complaint to you.
>
> (In this area, give the specifics of the complaint. Say who you've
> spoken with about the problem, what attempts you've made to solve it and
> what specific action you would like. I always ask for coupons or some
> type of compensation)
>
> I look forward to hearing from you within 30 days, so that we are able
> to resolve this problem in a speedy fashion.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> (your name)

I don't favor any cookie cutter approach to letter writing. Sometimes
humor works and other times a more threatening formal letter is in
order. I wrote to Wendy's headquarters six weeks ago about the two
occasions we found hair in their Frosties from the same location. So
far there has been no response. We have not been there in six weeks
either. Some companies have a culture that responds to complaints and
other companies ignore everything. When I know which category they
fit, I act accordingly. Further complaints on deaf ears are a waste of
my time.

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Wednesday, November 19, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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