Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics

Friday, December 5, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: order glasses by mail
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ccf50661d635c8c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 4 2008 11:17 pm
From: "tommyone"

It was mentioned in this newsgroup a while back on how to order eyeglasses
over the internet.could some body repeat the url's. I have the prescription.
much appreciated.

--
try this
[url=http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1357146][img]http://66.7.192.165/banners/full_banner2.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ¡SI se puede!: U.S. jobless at 26-year high while 25+ million illegal
aliens continue to 'take, take, take!'
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/165362b61150e6e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 12:43 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 4, 9:02 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
<guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> Jobless rolls at 26-year peak, factory orders drop
>
> Reuters
> Thursday, December 4, 2008
>
> URL:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Number-of-workers-on-jobless-rb-1374590...
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
> does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
> they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
> corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
> a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and
> silent we may be led, like sheep, to the slaughter.
> -- George Washington
>
> If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
> there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
> original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
> forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
> arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
> except in their courage and despair ...
>
> The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
> proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
> than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
> to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> We in America do not have government by the majority.
> We have government by the majority who participate.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
> conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
> the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
> depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
> keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
> against tyranny in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
> let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
> to do.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
> Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
> delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
> those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
> perverted it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson

Then we are entertained by the bloated old farts listening to business
"leaders" beg
for federal money. Take this economy down to a level when illegal
aliens are frog-marched
to the border.

mitch

http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:08 am
From: strabo

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Dan <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>> Socialism is about a hell of a lot more than JUST nationalizing industrys.
>
>> No, it is not.
>
> It depends if you use words to mean what they mean, or if you use them
> like NeoCons do.
>
> For example, they claim that advocacy of a progressive income tax is
> socialist, making that good ole Republican Rough Rider, Teddy Roosevelt, a
> socialist. And they say that the Earned Income Credit is a Socialist
> Policy, ignoring that it was signed into law by that Goddamned Pinko
> Commie-Lover Ronald Reagan.
>
> High marginal tax rates are practically the trademark of socialism, so
> they say, making the era of the 1950's the high water mark of our
> complicity with those Evil Marxist Bastards.
>
> Words mean anything that they want them to mean.
>

The meanings of some words, like 'liberal' and 'conservative' for
example, are easily changed due to the ambiguous nature of the words.
Others, like 'socialism' and 'fascism', will always retain their
essential elements.

Why is that?

Socialism is a descriptive term as well as an ideological methodology.
The former minimizes distortion of the words meaning.

If an act is socialistic in function, it doesn't matter what political
party is associated with the act. Taxes of any kind are socialistic
because taxes, by design or not, steer or influence the behavior and
attitudes of society. Rather than leaving individuals and their society
free, government dictates such as taxes, directly intervene and
*socialize* or change society. This is a degree of socialism.

After the SCOTUS struck down the income tax in 1895 as unconstitutional,
both parties stayed away from further attempts. Even still, individuals
such as Teddy Roosevelt went against Republican policy and promoted the
idea to Congress. This in part resulted in the income tax amendment of
1913.

The US is a socialistic nation galloping towards the ideology of central
command and control.

Once this optimal level is attained, oppression will rapidly increase
fostering a physical revolution and overthrow of government.

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:14 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>Hint: The economy always does better under Democrat stewardship. It is
>>Republican policies that seem to lead to economic chaos.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>
>OMG, you could not possibly be more wrong. You are exactly 180 degrees
>removed from reality. Congratulations. I think? -Dave
>
>
>
>

Hmm - for start, the stock market has historically resulted in over
twice the returns under Democrat vs. Republican presidents.

Then of course, there's the general economy which has also historically
done much better under Democratic control.

About the only gains under Republican leadership has been excessive debt
/ borrowing.

Dave, you really need to get with it. You are totally out of touch
with reality.

Or are you simply a troll?

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:17 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

><EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>news:gh7cbj$9q3$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
>
>>In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>While we're all happily employed (yeah right) building roads and
>>>
>>>
>bridges,
>
>
>>>our tax rates are sky-high, and employers (private employers) are
>>>
>>>
>leaving
>
>
>>>the country in droves.
>>>
>>>
>>Nothing need be so black and white.
>>
>>
>
>Well let's hope not. But nobody with a brain imagines that higher taxes and
>unskilled workers building roads and bridges is going to increase
>non-government employment. -Dave
>
>
>
>
Why / how would unskilled workers be utilized for bridge and road work?

Hint - the advantage of a national bridge / roads work program would be
to promote US based jobs vs. the dumb Bush approach of borrowing money
from China to hand out so the US could use that money to buy
......... goods from China.

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:23 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:4WPZk.4616$qp2.4026@newsfe25.iad...
>
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Holy SHIT! You want the 3 or 4 remaining employers in the U.S. to be
>>>
>>>
>more
>
>
>>>efficient? How do you figure that is going to help?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Any explanation why Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Nissan etc
>>and now Volkswagen built production plants in the US?
>>
>>
>
>Do you have any idea how much it costs to ship those vehicles in from
>thousands of miles away? Building the plants here allowed all those foreign
>badges to become even more competitive.
>

Hmm - One day you complain about all the manufacturing going overseas
and the next day you point out the overseas companies are building
plants in the US to save money / be competitive.

It's becoming quite difficult keeping up with your contradictions.

>NOTE though, before you answer...
>the wages paid in those foreign owned U.S. auto plants is about half what
>similar workers at GM, Chrysler and Ford earn. If the wages were much
>higher, those plants would leave the U.S. again. -Dave
>
>
>
>
Actually, the hours wages before benefits are only marginally higher for
the UAW workers. It's the over generous benefits & 95% pay for time
not worked that's killing the domestic three - along with a poor, but
well earned reputation for building poor quality vehicles over the years.

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:26 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>Now I'm really confused. You condemn taxes, yet you support Palin
>>who's sole means to govern is by taxing oil company profits and
>>redistributing the bounty as welfare checks to all AK residents.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Yes, you are confused. AK has a unique arrangement with the oil companies.
>It started probably before Sarah was even born. But I'd have to
>double-check that, to confirm that Sarah wasn't born yet. -Dave
>
>
>
>
So which is it? Do you believe government should balance it's books
by taxing companies to the maximum (i.e.. Palin's method of taxing oil
company profits)? Or reducing taxes on corporations?

You go back and forth so often, it's hard to follow.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:28 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>>Dan - I take it you believe our government can more efficiently create
>>>
>>>
>jobs
>
>
>>>by raising taxes and forcing employers out of the country? Do
>>>
>>>
>tell...-Dave
>
>
>>Funny, I never mentioned either of those options. But look at what
>>Bush's tax cuts have wrought.
>>
>>
>
>17% unemployment that is miscounted (ahem) as 7%. You can blame that on
>Bush in your own fantasy world. But imagine where we would be without the
>tax cuts. It may be hard for a liberal to imagine, but things would be even
>worse!!!
>
>
>

I've read that some 15% still believe GW has done a favorable job, but
I've also read that some 15% believe UFOs are a major threat to the US.

I've starting to believe you fall into both categories.

Or are you simply a troll?

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:29 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>The federal government isn't your family. Not even close. Your
>>simplistic notions don't model macroeconomics. Things get worse instead
>>of better if the federal government shuts down spending in a recession.
>>
>>
>>
>
>If you think there is a GOOD way out of this mess without raising taxes, I'm
>all ears. -Dave
>
>
>
>
So now you want to raise taxes. Yesterday it was reduce taxes.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:42 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> > Hint: The economy always does better under Democrat stewardship. It is
> > Republican policies that seem to lead to economic chaos.
> >
> > Jeff

> OMG, you could not possibly be more wrong. You are exactly 180 degrees
> removed from reality. Congratulations. I think? -Dave

In the post-carter years, he is correct.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:47 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

> > > While we're all happily employed (yeah right) building roads and
> bridges,
> > > our tax rates are sky-high, and employers (private employers) are
> leaving
> > > the country in droves.
> >
> > Nothing need be so black and white.

> Well let's hope not. But nobody with a brain imagines that higher taxes and
> unskilled workers building roads and bridges is going to increase
> non-government employment. -Dave

What if those roads and bridges make it cheaper to get goods to market
and people into their factories and office parks?

Why wouldn't that increase efficiency? What if the rail systems were
modernized? What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
in comfort to a central location?

Imagine if every business were in locations beset by traffic jams,
compared with easy direct access for workers and egress for finished
goods?

How can wise infrastructure investments fail to help foster business
development?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:02 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Reduced taxes leaves the consumer with more of his (her) own money.

Well, Duh. That hardly constitutes an analysis of the effects of deficit
spending on employment and economic growth, unless one starts with the
proposition that all government spending constitutes wasted resources.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:04 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> >
> > The federal government isn't your family. Not even close. Your
> > simplistic notions don't model macroeconomics. Things get worse instead
> > of better if the federal government shuts down spending in a recession.
> >

> If you think there is a GOOD way out of this mess without raising taxes, I'm
> all ears. -Dave

Keynes suggested that deficit spending is appropriate during recessions to
spur the economy. Reagan endorsed that view (but kept it up during the
ensuing expansion).

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:08 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

> With a budget imbalance of trillions, how do you propose increasing spending
> without increasing taxes? Just print more money?

Generally, spending is increased without increasing income by borrowing
money.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:12 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:

> If an act is socialistic in function, it doesn't matter what political
> party is associated with the act. Taxes of any kind are socialistic
> because taxes, by design or not, steer or influence the behavior and
> attitudes of society.

By that line of thinking, all laws are socialist. You are being overly
broad in your definition.

Rather than leaving individuals and their society
> free, government dictates such as taxes, directly intervene and
> *socialize* or change society. This is a degree of socialism.

Again, all laws have that function.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:17 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Yeah, but when I was a baby, Mom thought the dimple on my butt was cute. I'm
sure Alan Greenspan cares.... NOT!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6prsfaF9a428U1@mid.individual.net...
Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote

> The US Government is solidly in debt.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

> I hope you don't think they have the funds to bail out depositors.

They'll just go into debt more if they need to, just like they have with the
bailouts.

> And supposing they do try to bail out depositors.
> That just takes more of YOUR money by taxes.

Irrelevant to whether you need to use a safe bank.

> I don't trust FDIC any more than I trust the government to have a
> "surplus".

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you might or might not trust in spades.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dissolution of Israel, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.grishenkoff.com/
Israel.html)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:24 am
From: Prime Minister of the Kingdom of God Serge Grishenkoff

Dissolution of Israel, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.grishenkoff.com/
Israel.html)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wonderful!!!!good news!!! luxury Products 8-35USD at www.cicigogo.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/962d28522a6291f2?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: online bill paying gets riskier
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/07de970c9e49f007?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:19 am
From: max

Hackers are starting to target online payment services. Included is a
link to a story about CheckFree.com, whose domain name got hijacked.
Not too much damage done, simply because of the short exposure before
the problem was corrected. If the hackers had redirected to a spoof
page instead of a blank page, the exploit wold likely have gone on far
longer before being detected.

<http://tinyurl.com/5rxndj> or

<http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/hackers_hijacked_la
rge_e-bill.html?hpid=sec-tech>

.max

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: useing a curved pot with an induction heater?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8510c23808cd8a87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:21 am
From: "Tim Downie"

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 3 Dec, 17:32, "john zeiss" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> We are thinking of buying one of those table 'induction' heaters to
>> cook a Japanese type of vegetable meal actually on the dining table.
>
> You need a closely fitting base, within 1/4" or so (or 1/2" at most),
> depending on the layout of the heater coils. Otherwise the field
> doesn't couple well into the pot and apparent power will be pitiful.
> Legs certainly won't help (unless the heater can sit between them).

Speaking of induction hobs, I see Lidl are doing a small 2 kW countertop one
from next Thursday for £29.99. (I would offer a link but the Lidl site
seems broken at the moment. Asks for a postcode but keeps returning to the
same page. May mean that we're not getting them in our town).

Must admit I'm quite tempted (if available) although I'm not sure what I
would do with it. ;-)

Tim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:46 am
From: "Daniel T."

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "JonL" <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:

> > Announcements in the paper can be done by anyone. Often 1-2 weeks after
> > birth.
>
> and the newspapers just accept what's sent in. no fact checking there.
> newspaper article is absolutely no proof of anything.

But if there were no announcement, then you all would be yelling "Why no
announcement? That proves he was born elsewhere!" Just more fishing.

The real question is why did anybody put the announcement in the paper
in the first place if it wasn't true? Where they expecting that Barack
would one day run for president?

How deep is this conspiracy?

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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: ccleaner
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c02b82a17e67ba79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:54 am
From: clams_casino

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TOPIC: (www.86wa tches.com)wholesale wat ches, T-Shirt,jeans,sunglasses,hats
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==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:39 am
From: replicawatches2009@yahoo.cn

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TOPIC: the professional AAAAA+++ replica products suppliers specializing on
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f3bb9e621ec20f8c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:47 am
From: replicawatches2009@yahoo.cn

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Friday, December 5, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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