Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Sunday, July 8, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supreme Court reverses century-old ban on price fixing, inviting
mobster-like behavior from manufacturers.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d8c8a3f5ef4e846?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:08 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <nGKji.8354$aP2.550@newsfe16.lga>, clams casino wrote:
>bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
>
>>No it isn't. Once you have sold something, you no longer own it. You
>>surrender your rights over it, except through force, and I mean FORCE of
>>legislation.
>
>Since when? Evidently you've never purchased any software (think
>Micro$oft).

That gets into intellectual property issues, especially copyright.

I surely find need for some debate and refinements as to what a
purchaser "owns" and what is "fair use".
I certainly believe that someone buying software with a "single user"
license should have no abridgement of freedom to make all necessary backup
copies and to transfer the "working copy" among "working" computers as
long as all "working" computers only work 1 at a time and all only work at
the registered user's home, or when under the supervision of and carried
by the "licensed user" when the user travels.

However, I see need for USA to do some loosening of its copyright laws
from their recent status successfully requested by "Big Business".

I just wish enough Americans would get up off their keisters and cast
their votes at all opportunites while considering this! And not only to
vote, but also to be less distracted by snake-oil-sellers who claim lack
of need of taxes to support pork spending, those who promise to send more
of the pork spending "your way", and those who "push buttons" by claiming
that we need to "protect the flag" (despite unpopularity of flag-burners),
and those who claim that we need to "protect the institution of marriage"
from me marrying my life partner of my same gender that I fell in love
with a couple decades ago.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:20 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <bearclaw-8E5FB7.22581307072007@news.supernews.com>,
bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
>In article <slrnf90nnn.gma.don@manx.misty.com>,
> don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> I find complete lack of government interference to be a "throw them to
>> the wolves" approach that allows those most willing and able to be bullies
>> to make the rules by having the gold.
>>
>> Thankfully, Western democracies balance unfettered free enterprise
>> against forcing players to "play fair". Thus, we have such things as
>> antitrust laws. So, when it comes down to deciding where to draw the
>> line, I think we need laws voiding restrictions on:
>>
>> 1) Property only being available with covenants restricting reselling
>> price,
>>
>> 2) Property only being available with covenants against advertising
>> selling price (common with designer clothes for example).
>
>I would add greatly expanded fair use laws.
>
>BTW, I sang Yankee Doodle Dandy in public today. Who do I have to pay?

I suspect whoever composed that would have to make a turn to greed to
claim any restriction upon all Americans singing, whistling, humming,
*whatever*,.. on such an American-patriotic song!

I hope that song is not as restricted as "Happy Birthday" is and managed
to continue to be! (Ever notice rerstaurants doing singing for birthday
celebrations tend to use something else?) Snopes.com even mentions that
song having extended lingering copyright protection!

Meanwhile, I have low fear of ill effects of anyone singing "Happy
Birthday" within a home of someone having a birthday or of someone who has
a guest having a birthday. For that matter, I consider safety of that
being only increased in the less-Libertarian USA "state" that is
less-libertarian in the direction of protecting privacy of
individuals/families from fellow non-government-entities. That one is
California!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:39 pm
From: "zappo"

Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
> ...
>> I have no software on any of my computers that is not bought and paid
>> for, btw.
>
> You can't buy software. If you read the fine print, you'll find that
> you have only purchased the right to use the software for a period
> of time. The software never belongs to you and, often, you do not
> have the right to make copies (even backups) or the right to sell it.

Just because someone claims that, doesnt make it correct, legally.

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
> In article <slrnf90nnn.gma.don@manx.misty.com>,
> don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> I find complete lack of government interference to be a "throw
>> them to the wolves" approach that allows those most willing and able
>> to be bullies to make the rules by having the gold.
>>
>> Thankfully, Western democracies balance unfettered free enterprise
>> against forcing players to "play fair". Thus, we have such things as
>> antitrust laws. So, when it comes down to deciding where to draw the
>> line, I think we need laws voiding restrictions on:
>>
>> 1) Property only being available with covenants restricting
>> reselling price,
>>
>> 2) Property only being available with covenants against advertising
>> selling price (common with designer clothes for example).
>
> I would add greatly expanded fair use laws.
>
> BTW, I sang Yankee Doodle Dandy in public today. Who do I have to pay?

No one, its out of copyright.

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:23 am
From: clams casino

bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:

>I would add greatly expanded fair use laws.
>
>BTW, I sang Yankee Doodle Dandy in public today. Who do I have to pay?
>
>

Someone paid you to sing?

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:25 am
From: clams casino

bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:

>In article <nGKji.8354$aP2.550@newsfe16.lga>,
> clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>No it isn't. Once you have sold something, you no longer own it. You
>>>surrender your rights over it, except through force, and I mean FORCE of
>>>legislation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Since when? Evidently you've never purchased any software (think
>>Micro$oft).
>>
>>
>
>Did I mention "COPYRIGHT" laws? Maybe you missed that.
>
>I have no software on any of my computers that is not bought and paid
>for, btw.
>
>
But you can not legally sell it or use it on another computer, even
though you bought / paid for it.
(You don't own that software that you "bought".)

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 9:11 am
From: krw

In article <WQ3ki.5719$wG2.1837@newsfe17.lga>, PeterGriffin@drunkin-
clam.com says...
> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
>
> >In article <nGKji.8354$aP2.550@newsfe16.lga>,
> > clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>No it isn't. Once you have sold something, you no longer own it. You
> >>>surrender your rights over it, except through force, and I mean FORCE of
> >>>legislation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Since when? Evidently you've never purchased any software (think
> >>Micro$oft).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Did I mention "COPYRIGHT" laws? Maybe you missed that.
> >
> >I have no software on any of my computers that is not bought and paid
> >for, btw.
> >
> >
> But you can not legally sell it or use it on another computer, even
> though you bought / paid for it.
> (You don't own that software that you "bought".)
>
As Zappo said above, just because the software EULA states that,
doesn't mean it's true.

--
Keith

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:30 am
From: Larry Bud

> >> >They should be allowed to because, with free enterprise, you should be
> >> >allowed to conjure up whatever contract you want, regardless of how
> >> >ridiculous it might seem to others. Whether or not someone agrees to
> >> >that contract will depend on the free market.
>
> >> Apparently a libertarian does not have a problem with someone telling me
> >> what I can do with my property as long as that someone is not the
> >> government.
>
> >As a retailer, you're the one who freely entered into a contract with
> >the OEM that deemed how the product is to be sold. If you didn't want
> >to follow those terms, perhaps you shouldn't have signed on the dotted
> >line.
>
> >Free entered into contracts are not force. Laws that the government
> >passes regulating commerce is.
>
> I find complete lack of government interference to be a "throw them to
> the wolves" approach that allows those most willing and able to be bullies
> to make the rules by having the gold.

IOW, "Almighty government, please, PROTECT ME FROM MYSELF!"

I still find it incredible that allowing people to make decisions on
their own is viewed by some as something that can't possibly be
allowed to happen, that they somehow know better than the person
making that decision.

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:33 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 8, 12:00 am, bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
> In article <WERji.154219$Sa4.89...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>
> "SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
> > The price of your freedom to do as you please with your property is my
> > freedom to do as I please with my property.
>
> > Which, in this case, includes my freedom not to sell you my property unless
> > you sign a separate agreement not to resell said property below a floor
> > price.
>
> > You are, of course, free to seek an alternate supplier whose asking price
> > does not include that agreement. Free in the legal sense, anyway. There's no
> > guarantee that such a supplier will exist.
>
> Which of course paves the way for monopolies. Great idea. Lousy use of
> tax dollars. Burn monopolies and execute their leaders.

So now you want government to force people to manufacture and sell
their product according to your terms? You know what eventually
happens? People will say "fuck this" and stop manufacturing
altogether.

Who's stopping you from becoming a supplier and filling the demand?

Monopolies can ONLY exist when Government gets involved and
artificially manipulates the market.

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 10:47 am
From: clams casino

Larry Bud wrote:

>
>
>So now you want government to force people to manufacture and sell
>their product according to your terms? You know what eventually
>happens? People will say "fuck this" and stop manufacturing
>altogether.
>
>Who's stopping you from becoming a supplier and filling the demand?
>
>Monopolies can ONLY exist when Government gets involved and
>artificially manipulates the market.
>
>
>
Yep - The government needs to stop regulating toothpaste, dog food,
tires, children's toys, etc and let the free market decide what's best.

What's good for Darwin is good for everyone.

Who needs government regulation?

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 10:49 am
From: clams casino

krw wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>But you can not legally sell it or use it on another computer, even
>>though you bought / paid for it.
>>(You don't own that software that you "bought".)
>>
>>
>>
>As Zappo said above, just because the software EULA states that,
>doesn't mean it's true.
>
>
>
?? You obviously belong in the Bush camp - laws are for everyone else.

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 11:58 am
From: krw

In article <xP6ki.7864$Oz7.2536@newsfe19.lga>, PeterGriffin@drunkin-
clam.com says...
> krw wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>But you can not legally sell it or use it on another computer, even
> >>though you bought / paid for it.
> >>(You don't own that software that you "bought".)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >As Zappo said above, just because the software EULA states that,
> >doesn't mean it's true.
> >
> >
> >
> ?? You obviously belong in the Bush camp - laws are for everyone else.

Well, It seems we're both right!

--
Keith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: World's First Healthy Coffee
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/623b25c9c1ab55b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:16 am
From: spudz

www.myganocoffee.net

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·
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www.myganocoffee.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: online shopping -hot deals,free stuff ,best coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd56e349e0d4cedb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:39 am
From: Mahesh

Hi friends,

Visit the Best deals & coupons @ dealsunion.com, to provide the
shoppers good shopping experience through "BEST DEALS - BEST COUPONS".

http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp

More Details:

DEALSUNION.COM is for online shopping and it gives best information
about items from different merchants of almost all categories. We
scour the merchant sites to find the deals and categorize them as hot
deals, which are pretty good, deals that are going to expire today,
free stuff to help shoppers and merchants. We also cover coupons and
rebates offered by the merchants and display them in user friendly way
so that the shoppers can easily find them to get benefited while
making the deals on merchant's site. We help our shoppers find the
deals with our advanced search engine functionality.

So check it out:

http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:39 am
From: Mahesh

Hi friends,

Visit the Best deals & coupons @ dealsunion.com, to provide the
shoppers good shopping experience through "BEST DEALS - BEST COUPONS".

http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp

More Details:

So check it out:

http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:33 am
From: George Grapman

Mahesh wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> Visit the Best deals & coupons @ dealsunion.com, to provide the
> shoppers good shopping experience through "BEST DEALS - BEST COUPONS".
>
> http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp
>
>
> More Details:
>
> DEALSUNION.COM is for online shopping and it gives best information
> about items from different merchants of almost all categories. We
> scour the merchant sites to find the deals and categorize them as hot
> deals, which are pretty good, deals that are going to expire today,
> free stuff to help shoppers and merchants. We also cover coupons and
> rebates offered by the merchants and display them in user friendly way
> so that the shoppers can easily find them to get benefited while
> making the deals on merchant's site. We help our shoppers find the
> deals with our advanced search engine functionality.
>
>
> So check it out:
>
> http://www.dealsunion.com/index.jsp
>
And who do we contact after we never get the items we paid for as the
site has no contact details?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A/C working properly? Cost -> lower temp?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c37471a9403c0a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 12:34 am
From: "Jeffrey Lebowski"

"noname" < trolling the net for young boys > wrote in message
news:RnLji.2239$Sb4.1365@newsfe21.lga...

>
> Are you 10 or 12?
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fridge use power saving
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2cc260293c68afaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:00 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>> throwitout <throwitout@dodgeit.com> wrote:
>
>>> Fridge compressors run more efficiently if run for
>>> longer intervals than shorter ones.
>
>> Each start takes about 0.3 Wh
>
>Where does this number come from?

A PE friend that I trust.

>Are you considering only the power it takes to start up the motor,

How much net energy does that require?

>or are you also considering reduced efficiency that the fridge might
>experience while reaching steady state operation?

I would guess both, since he said this was a result of a calculation.

Do you have a more accurate number?

And how about the increased airflow and condensation
when the door is open, given more cold surfaces?

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best electric fan for home?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef11c375f0215275?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 6:02 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Melissa <nospam@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>We are in the process of removing every ceiling fan from our house. I can't
>stand them running above my head, they make me dizzy.

Have you tried a tinfoil hat? :-)

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to avoid a Heart Attack
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/194da20b953eb31f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 3:20 am
From: Philospher

How to avoid a Heart Attack
http://foodone.blogspot.com/2007/07/how-to-avoid-heart-attack.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living in the Philadelphia region
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/695a4f4cea9d3c14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 4:43 am
From: Useful Info

A simple guide:

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 11:16 am
From: "Loomer"

"Useful Info" <useful_inf@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183895008.532817.14870@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>A simple guide:
>

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html
>

They forgot one.
Drinking your own urine.
Thirst quenching, delicious, and money saving!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living & tourism in Paris, France
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9effe78ed612ad85?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 5:59 am
From: Sparrow

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html

Some videos of Paris:
http://zsmith.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Let's make money!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7de2b4e0408308f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 1:28 pm
From: nikkiwith@gmail.com

As Seen On OPRAH & 20/20 - TURN $6 into $24600 Earn money using
Paypal. All you need is: 1) An email address 2) A PayPal account 3)
$6.00. The so called "risk" is only $6.00! Anyway, only hours after
implementing this exact system I about fell out of my chair as money
ACTUALLY started rolling in. I couldn't believe it and for that
reason, I wrote this intro and became a believer in this system. This
system is THE legit and profitable one. Here is how it works... There
is a list of 6 email addresses (you'll see it as you read further).
Each of these people have already taken part in this system. When
someone new comes along (such as yourself) he/she removes #1 off of
the list, moves the other five email addresses up one position (i.e.
#6 goes to #5, #5 to #4, etc.), and places their PayPal email address
in the #6 position. This process is what develops the power of
compounding. Following this EXACT process is what creates the money,
and that is why this system has been raved about in the media.
Altering the system creates weak results. The legality of this system
comes from the idea that you are of course creating a mailing list,
and a "service" is being provided (more on that later.) Now on to how
your $6.00 creates BIG money... INSTRUCTIONS: STEP 1: The first thing
to do is highlight and SAVE this entire post in word or notepad on
your computer so you can come back to it later. After that, if you are
not already a PayPal user you need to go to the PayPal website at
www.paypal.com and SIGN UP. If you want to be able to receive credit
card payments from other people then you will need to sign up for a
PREMIER or BUSINESS account (not just a PERSONAL account). This is
highly recommended to allow others easy payment options. In order to
place the initial $6 into your account, you will have to verify your
bank account with paypal (which may take a few days). Paypal is 100%
secure and is used by millions of people worldwide. STEP 2: Here is
where the action occurs. The first thing to do is to send a $1.00
payment to each of the 6 email addresses on the current list from your
PayPal account. To do this quickly and successfully, follow these
simple steps: 1. Login to PayPal and click on the "Send Money" tab
near the top of the screen 2. In the "Recipient's Email" field enter
the email address 3. In the "Amount" field enter "1" (This is your
$1.00 payment) 4. In the "Category" field select "Service" (Keeping it
legal) 5. In the "Subject" field type "EMAIL LIST", and in the "NOTE"
field enter "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR EMAIL LIST". By doing this, you are
creating a service and maintaining the legality of the system by
"paying" for the service. 6. Finally, click on the "Continue" button
to complete the payment. Repeat these steps for each of the 6 email
addresses. That's it! By sending the $1.00 payment to each address,
you are implementing the compounding POWER of the system. You will
reap what you sow! Here is the current e-mail list:
************************************************* The email list: 1)
robriedle@bigpond.com 2) stitchqueen13@hotmail.com 3)
mclain.kidz@verizon.net 4) sdr77@bigpond.net.au 5)
daninjohn@bigpond.com 6) n_withington@hotmail.com
************************************************ STEP 2: Now take the
#1 email off of the list that you see above (from your saved file),
move the other addresses up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add
YOUR email address (the one used for your PayPal account) as number 6
on the list. This is the only part of the document that should be
changed. ** Make sure your email address is the one you have
registered with PayPal ** STEP 3: Post your amended article to at
least 200 newsgroups or message boards. I've began to see money roll
in before I even hit 100 posts, but try to to hit around 200 to allow
maximum exposure. Use Netscape, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari, or
whatever your internet browser is to search for various news groups,
on-line forums, message boards, bulletin boards, chat sites,
discussions, discussion groups, on-line communities, etc. For example,
log on to any search engine like yahoo.com or google.com and type in a
subject like 'MILLIONAIRE MESSAGE BOARD', 'MONEY MAKING DISCUSSIONS',
'MONEY MAKING FORUMS', or 'BUSINESS MESSAGE BOARD', etc. Fill in the
subject which will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll
through the list of postings in a particular group, and post the
article with the NEW list of email addresses included. THAT'S IT!!!
All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away.
After you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each
newsgroup. HOW THE MONEY WORKS: When you post 200 messages in various
forums, it is estimated that at LEAST 15 people will respond and send
you a $1.00 ($15.00). Those 15 will Post 200 Posts each and 225 people
send you $1.00 ($225.00), etc. through 6 levels of email addresses.
For comprehension purposes, here is an easy viewing chart: 1) 15(1) =
15 people ($1) = $15 2) 15(15) = 225 people ($1) = $225 3) 15(225) =
3375 people ($1) = $3375 4) 15(3375) = 50625 people ($1) = $50625 5)
15(50625) = 759375 people ($1) = $759375 As you can see, your $6.00
has multiplied exponentially. When your name is no longer on the list,
take the latest posting in the newsgroups and begin the process again.
Simply amazing... One other tip to speed up the process even more: You
can send out your amended post (after you complete the process and add
your paypal email address to the list) to the contacts you already
have in YOUR email address book! It is AMAZING how fast this works.
Good luck! HOW TO POST TO NEWS GROUPS? Use Netscape or Internet
Explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums,
message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Log on any search engine
like yahoo.com, google.com, altavista.com, excite.com, etc., then
search with the subject "millionaire message board; or; money making
message board; or; employment message board; or making discussions; or
''money making forum; or; business message board; etc. Click on them
one by one and you will find the option 'post a new message'.
REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL
MAKE!! Let me know how your going, if you dont quite understand email
me and I will talk you through it GOOD LUCK!!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cell phone batteries made in China may explode, regulators say
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/acd0e3880fbf9ca7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 7:31 am
From: sagawaeasdgsdaasfd@yahoo.com

The Oregonian
July 08, 2007

Cell phone batteries made in China may explode, regulators say
Defective products - Motorola and Nokia deny links to the problem
batteries
DAVID BARBOZA

After concerns over pet food, toothpaste, seafood and defective tires,
China may now have to cope with another consumer product disaster:
exploding mobile phone batteries.

Chinese regulators in southern Guangdong province, one of the world's
biggest electronics manufacturing centers, said this week that they
had found Motorola and Nokia mobile phone batteries that failed safety
tests and were prone to explode under certain conditions.

The batteries were said to be manufactured by Motorola and Sanyo of
Japan's Beijing operation, and were being distributed by companies
based in Guangdong province, which is near Hong Kong and is one of
China's biggest export centers.

It is unclear whether any of the substandard and hazardous batteries
entered the export market.

The announcement came just a day after China's state-controlled news
media reported that in June a 22-year-old man in western China was
killed after his Motorola cell phone exploded in his shirt pocket.

The man was reportedly a welder and the heat associated with the job
may have touched off the explosion.

Motorola and Nokia, two of the world's biggest mobile phone makers,
immediately denied links to the distributors of the problem batteries,
suggesting they were counterfeit.

"All the batteries tested were not Motorola genuine batteries," said
Yang Bo-ning, a spokesman for Motorola in Beijing. "They were fakes.
Those companies are not our suppliers."

Nokia said it was investigating the case and trying to determine
whether any of the substandard batteries affected Nokia phones.

Nokia said it doesn't manufacture batteries in China and has no
business ties with the Chinese distributors named in the safety
tests.

"We are confident this is a counterfeit product," said Eija-Riitta
Huovinen, a Nokia spokeswoman in Finland.

But the discovery of the exploding batteries is already threatening to
turn into another consumer product nightmare, and helping fuel
mounting international concerns about the quality and safety of goods
being made in China.

Exports of tainted pet food ingredients earlier this year triggered
one of the biggest pet food recalls in U.S. history, possibly killing
or injuring as many as 4,000 cats and dogs, according to American
regulators.

Cough medicine laced with a mislabeled industrial chemical from China
called diethylene glycol may have killed as many as 100 people in the
Dominican Republic last year.

And a few weeks ago, an American company recalled about 450,000
Chinese-made tires because they did not contain a key safety feature,
which could prevent tire treads from splitting and falling apart.

The recall occurred after a lawsuit blamed the Chinese-made tires for
an accident that resulted in the death of two people in the United
States.

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