Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

Sunday, October 14, 2007

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:27 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nfa8nFhqq5tU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>> It works in Israel.
>
>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
>>>> why son't it work?
>
>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
>
>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United
>> States.
>
> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the
> Cubans.
>
>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over
>> water?
>
> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.
>
>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>
>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more
>>>> difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>
>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
>
>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?
>
> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
>
>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
>
> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
> much better in the US than where they are coming from.
>
Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their birth to
seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to have a government in
their country that adopts the right policy, that eliminates the causes.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:36 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.

>> Its a similar economic change.

> Why is it "similar"?

Because its another way of getting economic change.

>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going
>>> to argue that it won't "help"?

>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
>> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that their
>> prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.

> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not otherwise have,

Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this country illegally?

Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA still
provides them with much worse living standards than moving to the US does.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>> It works in Israel.

>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.

>>>>> why son't it work?

>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.

>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United States.

>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the Cubans.

>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over water?

>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.

>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.

>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.

>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.

>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?

>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.

>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?

>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.

> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The
> solution is to have a government in their country that adopts the right policy, that eliminates the causes.

Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.

Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL sees
a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if they were
allowed to, because the living standards are so much better in the US.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 5:18 pm
From: Rob Jensen

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:17:55 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>news:atropos-B0C623.18362910102007@news.giganews.com...
>> In article <otsog352slo2tl336l20k1dmg4gj1s6mj1@4ax.com>,
>> Rob Jensen <ShutUpRob@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:04:41 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <rh0mg3dv69n0nnj27lqbsrh2t450b7eiuv@4ax.com>,
>>> > Rob Jensen <ShutUpRob@aol.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:32:57 -0400, William Grosvenor
>>> >> <billgruber@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > I say that we vote for Fred Dalton Thompson and return
>>> >> > to traditional American family values.
>>> >>
>>> >> But aren't conservatives supposed to hate Hollywood and
>>> >> everything it stands for?
>>> >
>>> >No.
>>>
>>> Well then, why do they?
>>
>> Some do, some don't.
>
>Actually, it is one of those love/hate relationships I would think. We all
>love to go to a good movie, regardless of what the actors polictical biases
>are. We just don't like it when they use their fame and money, to back some
>party or their ideas, which we do not approve of. "If" for instance, these
>actors were mostly conservative or republican, then I would imagine that
>democrats or liberals would be saying the same thing about these Hollywood
>types, that republicans and conservates are now saying about them.

Me flaming liberal. Me likee Gerald McRaney, Ricky Schroeder, Thomas
Haden Church, Shannen Doherty, noted whackjob (not for his politics,
but because of his ADD) James Woods, Janine Turner, Patricia Heaton
and many others.

You know why?

Unlike neocons, they're true conservatives -- they don't try to shove
flat-out lies down everybody's throats. For the most part, they
espouse their principles in a common-senseical way, not treating those
that disagree with them as traitors or terrorists. (Janine Turner's a
little on the twitchy side, BID.) So while I tend to disagree with
them, I think they really want to acknowledge and celebrate that we
all live in the same country.

You want to know why neocons are fucking thing up for conservatives in
Hollywood -- read Bruce Willis's recent interview in Vanity Fair. He's
essentially entirely alienated from conservatism due to the neocons'
hijacking of the Republican party and turning it into the Repugnican
party (my paraphrase). He's of the fiscal-conservative/socially
liberal moderate Republican type and I think it's flat-out
unconscionable what the Repugnicans have done to alienate him and
other real conservatives with their fascist demands for absolute
lockstep in espousing political beliefs.

-- Rob
--
LORELAI: I am so done with plans. I am never, ever making one again.
It never works. I spend the day obsessing over why it didn't work
and what I could've done differently. I'm analyzing all my shortcomings
when all I really need to be doing is vowing to never, ever make a plan
ever again, which I'm doing now, having once again been the innocent
victim of my own stupid plans. God, I need some coffee.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 6:37 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> > Build the Fence!
> >> >>
> >> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
> >> >
> >> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
> >> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
> >>
> >> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
> >
> > I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to stay
> > here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>
> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the line"?

Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
illegal and the other is not...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:31 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Shadowland wrote:
> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> cooled again.
> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> With a filled refrig you'll find your frig saving energy.
>
It looks like 1.5 pounds of air in a 20 cu ft refrigerator with no food.
It would take about 12 k joules to cool it from 70 to 40 F. With a
COP of 2, that would be about 0.00333 kWh of electricity. At 10 cents
per kWh, it would cost you 0.03 cents or 0.0003 dollars.

It appears that the major cost of opening the door is in the heating of
the solids and liquids inside by the flow of air and radiation from the
room. That would depend more on how long you kept the door open than on
how many times you opened it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 5:31 pm
From: George

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> "George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:IaCdnRaur-NkqYzanZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Don K wrote:
>>> "Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>>>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>>>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>>>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>>>> cooled again.
>>>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>>>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>>>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>>>
>>> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
>>> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
>>> air slower than containers of water.
>>>
>>> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>>>
>>> Don
>> How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
>> that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.
>
> with the bonus of being edible ! NOT!!!!
>
>
Of course not, cool whip is never edible. It just won't spoil for at
least 20 years. I guess one could also substitute it with Walmart
embalmed "fresh meat" for the same effect.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 6:47 pm
From: throwitout

On Oct 13, 7:48 pm, Abe <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >"Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> >> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> >> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> >> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> >> cooled again.
> >> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> >> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> >> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> >How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> >Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> >air slower than containers of water.
>
> >Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> >Don
>
> I think you need something with mass. Water or bricks, or Gel packs.

I use lead. It's fairly dense but much cheaper than gold.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get Free Money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d965c28120d0965c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 4:05 pm
From: "thesource2008@yahoo.com"

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TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 4:43 pm
From: "Otto Bahn"

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote

> > I never flush urinals.
>
> And never wash your smegma coated hands no doubt.

Exactly how are you getting smegma on your hands? I don't
think you're just peeing in front of that urinal...

--oTTo--

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 9:35 pm
From: "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"

>> > I never flush urinals.

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote
>> And never wash your smegma coated hands no doubt.

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote...
> Exactly how are you getting smegma on your hands?

No one said I am. And I don't handle your wiener so unlike you, my hands
are clean.

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote...
> I don't think you're just peeing in front of that urinal...

It's clear what you are thinking, and that tells us much about what is
foremost on your mind.

No go wash your hands... Smegma boy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Winter's Coming: Window Cracks and Leaks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1505995112e420aa?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 6:13 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:44:14 -0400, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com>
wrote:

>
>I mis-spoke, I meant lightweight spackling compound, not joint compound.
>Specifically I use DAP Fast'n'Final. It has the density of a plastic peanut.
>It's light enough that it will stay in place even in an upside-down gap
>while it dries. For really big gaps, I insert some sticky nylon webbing
>tape to give it some structural cohesion.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:34:02 -0700, DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net>
wrote:

>Do yourself a favor. Get some scrap wood, build a few jigs and
>practice caulking the gap. Once you've stopped "botching" the
>caulking, move onto the windows and do it right.

Nice running by some of my thoughts with you guys. My idea of a
neat and easy fix now will be to toss out the old standard width wood
strips that made up the existing inside trim. I can cut my own wood
strips to replace the existing trim, cover the separation gaps and
butt flush against the window frame. The result will look like an
original installation without any visible evidence of mending or
caulking. I was right to resist doing anything that requires sticky
stuff that is hard to remove and clean up. Next year's project.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 9:07 pm
From: Jeff

pc wrote:
> PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are cracks up to a quarter inch wide between the the window
>> frame and the inside window trim. It had been letting in cold air and
>> leaking out warm air out for years. I had not done anything because I
>> tolerate cold better and always set my thermostat to 72 deg F. The
>> average gas bill hasn't changed for years and the furnace wasn't
>> exactly knocking itself out unless it gets to minus twenty deg F or C.
>> Its an unreliable measure of energy loss for sure.
>>
>> The window frames were tight and secure to the stucco finish so there
>> were no repairs or caulking possible there without making the problem
>> something major. Same thing inside the house. The window trim was
>> also tight and secure against the wall. No adjustments were possible.
>> I didn't like the idea of those aerosol cans of squeeze foam
>> insulation as they are sticky and would be impossible to remove if
>> they didn't work and I come around to redoing the window repairs.
>> This is indeed fortunate because I chatted with my neighbor and he
>> said never to use that stuff. He did and the foam accelerated the
>> cracks in his windows over the years and he has a real problem now.
>> My other porposed solution was to stuff the cracks with fiberglass
>> insulation and glue or nail a thin slat of woodover the whole inside
>> window trim to cover the repairs. I have a well equipped garage
>> workshop and can do that except I procrastinate (long story).
>
>
> 'Great Stuff' foam is really hard to work with. Your neighbor is right.
>
> But, there is another foam that I highly recommend. It's made by DAP. I
> think it's called Daptex for windows and doors. It comes in a blue and
> black can. This foam is water soluble. So, it doesn't stick to your
> hands for weeks after.

You'll also see foam in two kinds, the large gap filler and that for
smaller cracks like yours, usually labeled for windows and doors.
Whatever brand you get make sure it is water soluable. Great Stuff, isn't.

What a lot of people don't realize is just how much heat is lost to
air infiltration, and not just the big gaps. A fairly insulated house
with average tightness can lose nearly the same amount of heat through
leakiness as through conduction losses through the walls, ceiling and
floor. It's really worth tightening up whatever leaks you feel no matter
how small, unless you don't mind burning money to stay warm.

Jeff

The straw and nozzle can be cleaned out. And you
> can reuse the can until it's empty, unlike the other stuff. It also
> stays flexible and doesn't expand as much as the other product.
>
> HTH..
>
> ..PC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A REAL way to make some extra cash!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/31f8fba835e92e36?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 7:26 pm
From: rutgerskevin

Check out my new website about my efforts to make money on the
internet. Let's make some money together.

http://www.freewebs.com/rutgerskevin/unemployedhelp.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 8:05 pm
From: "Tracey"

"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47112ccf$0$32552$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> match the style of the house.

My trash can is supposed to match the style of the house?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 8:57 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Tracey <pepita@redherring.com> wrote
> Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote
>> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote

>> This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever match the style of the house.

> My trash can is supposed to match the style of the house?

Corse it is, and we will have you publicly flogged if yours doesnt,
except for the fact that you so obviously enjoyed that the last time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 8:18 pm
From: Jeanette Guire

Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
(where it congeals to a gooey mess).

What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
microbial culture standpoint?

Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
refrigerated?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 8:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jeanette Guire <jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when
> mixed (as in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask
> for it to be refrigerated (where it congeals to a gooey mess).

> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt
> from a microbial culture standpoint?

> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?

Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 9:44 pm
From: Ron Peterson

On Oct 14, 10:18 pm, Jeanette Guire <jeanettegu...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
> in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
> (where it congeals to a gooey mess).

> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
> microbial culture standpoint?

The bacteria need to be in water to live and the oil provides the food
for them to grow.

--
Ron

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:02 pm
From: Goomba38

Rod Speed wrote:

>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>
> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>
They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:04 pm
From: Goomba38

Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Oct 14, 10:18 pm, Jeanette Guire <jeanettegu...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
>> in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
>> (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>
>> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
>> microbial culture standpoint?
>
> The bacteria need to be in water to live and the oil provides the food
> for them to grow.

Bacteria do not need water to survive.
That said, I'd be curious if this is just habit or has anyone actually
done study of whether the mixed oil/vinegar require chilling to keep
bacterial load in check? What other ingredients are added tht might
introduce higher risks?

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:36 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?

>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.

> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.

The containers they came in were near enough.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:46 pm
From: Goomba38

Rod Speed wrote:
> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>
>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>
>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>
> The containers they came in were near enough.

Not nearly...clean is a far cry from "sterile" which is what I was
responding to.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:07 pm
From: Steve

Shadowland <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote:
>When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> Let save all that fuel and buy local.

(Peter Singer)---Other things being equal, if your food is grown
locally, you will save on fossil fuels. But other things are often not
equal. California rice is produced using artificial irrigation and
fertilizer that involves energy use. Bangladeshi rice takes advantage
of the natural flooding of the rivers, and doesn't require artificial
irrigation. It also doesn't involve as much synthetic fertilizer,
because the rivers wash down nutrients, so it's significantly less
energy-intensive to produce. It's then shipped across the world, but
shipping is an extremely fuel-efficient form of transport. You can
ship something 10,000 miles for the same amount of fuel necessary to
truck it 1,000 miles. So if you're getting your rice shipped to San
Francisco from Bangladesh, fewer fossil fuels were used to get it
there than if you bought it in California.

Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.

...Anon

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TOPIC: Did I buy the worst two Nikon cameras (or are they all this bad?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b49006a02b43efc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:50 pm
From: Jeanette Guire

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:51:09 -0400, Scott Schuckert wrote:

> The battery doors are uniformly fragile on almost all digital cameras;
> the Nikons you mention are perhaps a little bit worse than average. I
> have experience with the 3100; with careful use it can be made to hold
> up. But as you mention, the stupidity is that the door is not designed
> to be easily replaced.

I found this wonderful thread while looking up how to fix my son's Nikon
Coolpix 3100 battery latch door camera body broken problem.

I latched onto the paperclip idea but nobody said which glue to use. I
bought Locktite superglue and Locktite epoxy but I think one or both of
those glues melted the camera body a bit. The camera body plastic is pitted
slightly and indented where the glue was wet but now has dried.

Does anyone know what the camera body plastic is made up of? The package
insert says not to use the Locktite Quick Set Epoxy on "polyethylene" or
"polypropylene".

Also, the articles didn't say WHAT SIZE drill bit to use so I used a #55
(0.052 inh) drill bit which seemed to work to drill the holes in the ribs
in the inside of the Nikon Coolpix camera body to hold the long legs of the
paperclip.

In addition, nobody said which dremel bit to use, and I munged up the
camera body by using one that was too large and unwieldy.

You can see a dozen step-by-step photos of my operation to recycle my son's
Nikon Coolpix 3100 camera at http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfixer/

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