http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Free Oceana Chico Bag! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/058642490222698d?hl=en
* Exploding television... - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
* Ice cream shrinks again - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf443aea01762c8b?hl=en
* Debit card article in Reader's Digest - 17 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
* ⊙ ⊙Christmas big ritual - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a06c0084a1b682e2?hl=en
* business credit cards for small businesses - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/49e103e77f4e22c9?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Oceana Chico Bag!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/058642490222698d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 5:04 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"
Free Oceana Chico Bag!
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=325
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding television...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 6:23 am
From: "** Frank **"
"Mark Anderson" <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.21d214a257683d4a9899b6@chi.news.speakeasy.net...
> In article imnot@mycomputer.now says...
>> > Just have to bleed off the CRT pressure once in a while.
>> > Problem solved.
>> >
>>
>> How exactly is this done?
>
> There's a little valve at the back up the picture tube. Use need a
> small screwdriver to open the valve that lets the air bubbles out.
>
>
Removed a few CRTs myself and never saw any kind of mechanical valve.
Further, air doesn't bubble out, its a vacuum tube. Anyway, don't mess
around the inside of a CRT if you don't know what your are doing - high
voltage inside even if its disconnected from the power source and too easy
to cause an implosion.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:23 am
From: "** Frank **"
"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:63ngm317ihhc292eu9imva25b7on59t5b6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:04:28 -0800 (PST), sarge137
> <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 18, 10:20 am, maryatbe...@webtv.net (Mary Mathews) wrote:
>>> My sister's friend's TV exploded. The two ladies there were hurt and
>>> taken to the hospital. The house burned to the ground. Does anyone here
>>> know about exploding TV's and what we can do to prevent such an
>>> accident? Thanks. Mary
>>
>>Can't say for sure Mary, but I'd bet next month's mortgage payment
>>that there's way more to the story. Television don't "explode".
>>
>>I've seen cases where house fires were started by faulty electrical
>>circuits in televisions, then the picture tube exploded from the heat
>>of the ensuing fire; but in over forty years I've never seen or even
>>heard of anyone being injured from a spontaneously exploding
>>television.
>>
>>If you're really concerned about this I'd suggest you contact your
>>sister's friend and get all the facts.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Sarge
>
>
> A TV CRT is a vacuum tube. Should it fail it implodes not explode.
> The tube itself is thin glass ande well protected by the TV box. In
> front where the TV picture is, is a thick cornformal piece of glass
> that protects the vacuum tube from imploding should you knock with a
> piece of furniture or throw a can of beer at it. It take quite a
> hammer force to break that protective glass layer. Next, should there
> be a short circuit the main fuse from the power cord to the
> transformer blows immediately. No power, no fire. The OP is making
> up the story.
I agree, sounds like the OP needed information to scam the insurance
company. I've taken a 12 pound sledgehammer to break up the front of a few
picture tubes - takes a few good whacks before I could crack it, after
releasing the vacuum first, of course. So very unlikely anyone could get
hurt from a CRT, and an implosion at that. Short circuit within the TV could
cause an explosion (a little pop that is) and the capacitor could explode
but no way could hurt anyone and the TV box should contain all of it. If the
TV catches on fire, for whatever reason, it would be most lightly a slow
fire and the friends of the sister let it burn. Sounds like they let the
house burn to the ground intentionally.
If the two ladies were hurt they were not watching a TV program, but more
likely fooling around inside the TV box and don't know what they were doing.
The assumption is CRT, but OP didn't say. Can't see LED, rear projection or
plasma panel could cause this kind of damage either. So what kind of TV is
she talking about?
Of course, this is all theory without having further information, but I
think the homeowner's insurance company has a strong cause to refuse payment
and possibly bring up fraud charges.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:29 am
From: ""
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:20:55 -0500, maryatbeach@webtv.net (Mary Mathews) wrote:
>
>My sister's friend's TV exploded. The two ladies there were hurt and
>taken to the hospital. The house burned to the ground. Does anyone here
>know about exploding TV's and what we can do to prevent such an
>accident? Thanks. Mary
When TVs explode, the terrorists win !
<rj>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ice cream shrinks again
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf443aea01762c8b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 6:48 am
From: George
Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article <DJY9j.3$Ks5.0@newsfe11.lga>, imascot <imnot@mycomputer.now>
> wrote:
>
>> I see that a "half gallon" of ice cream has now shrunk from 1.75 quarts to
>> 1.5
>> From what I've gathered, anything that has corn in it or used to eat corn has
>> gone up in price, for instance, corn muffins, which used to the same price as
>> blueberry, are now a dollar more for a package of six.
>>
>> I'd rather have expanding prices than shrinking product size, though.
>
> The price of corn and products that use it is on the way up because corn
> has become a popular crop for ethanol.
It seems using ethanol has really worked out well (as big business and
SUV welfare) for being a thoughtless government pronouncement.
Lots of companies are getting huge grants to build the plants and
continuing operating subsidies (both pulled out of our pockets by the
government) so they can sell the ethanol below market value. Then liquid
fuels taxes taxes also have to be waived to keep the price down and of
course anything that uses corn now costs more.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:10 am
From: Scott in SoCal
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:40:25 -0800, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
> I know people who take their pay checks to their employers bank
>(often incurring a fee) because they do no want anyone in the company to
>have their account number.
Are you sure they are not just illegal aliens without a bank account?
Given that your employer has your social security number and all sorts
of other personal information about you, pulling your credit report
and finding out ALL of your account numbers is trivial. Surely
everyone knows this? Why would anyone bother to try to hide their
checking account number from their employer?
== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:15 am
From: "rick++"
The RD article is deceptive.
All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:20 am
From: "rick++"
The other safety technique I employ
is a special "gateway account", i.e. one exposed to
the outside world, with very limited funding.
Its tied to checks, bill pay, and debit card.
In general it always has less than $1000,
except for the moment bills are paid.
The deposit and billpays are scheduled to
be simulataneous so no large amount exists
for long.
== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:31 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
rick++ wrote:
> The RD article is deceptive.
> All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
> protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
> They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
It's not the bank policy, it's the protections extended by the federal
government that you lose on debit cards, with or without the Visa or
Mastercard logo.
== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:38 am
From: Rick Blaine
"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
>protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
There's a difference between protection by bank policy and and protection by
federal law.
>They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
There are three types of ATM or Debit cards these days:
- The classic bank ATM card which works at local ATMs. It may work at local
online retailers, if they all belong to a local or regional ATM network. These
are almost impossible to find, but banks can issue them. There's no advantage to
using one though.
- An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
they require realtime entry of a PIN.
They do NOT work as a signature debit card, also known as an offline debit card.
- Online/Offline Debit Cards. These have the Visa/MC logo on them, work online
as described above, but can also look like a credit card to a merchant. The
difference is that as sson as the "credit" transaction is processed, the money
gets extracted from your account.
The fees for online use are much less than credit transactions, so stores like
Target and Walmart have their terminals set up to assume you want an online
debit transaction and force you to press "credit".
Banks love credit and credit like debit transactions, so they encourage offline
and online use as credit cards. Why would you want tto process a debit card as a
credit transaction? Your bank may offer miles or rebates as a cut of the deal.
--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:38 am
From: goaway@fractious.net
"Melissa" <nospam@neo.rr.com> writes:
[the ever popular credit versus debit card]
> Our bank offers the same protection with our Debit card that they do with a
> CC. We don't use it online, but use it almost exclusively for all local
> purchases. We've never had a problem. I do monitor our bank account almost
> daily online.
The overall protection (ie. the amount of money you are
liable for if there is fraud) is the same. The hassle
of dealing with it is different. In the one case,
you (a) have to ask for your money back and wait for it
and (b) may be bouncing checks or unable to get at
your own cash in the meantime while they decide whether
or not you've been defrauded. In the other case, you
simply don't pay the bill.
In the end both are made (mostly, and generally) whole.
It's the part between the fraud and resolution which
makes the big difference.
--
== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:38 am
From: sfgeorge
On Dec 19, 7:10 am, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:40:25 -0800, George Grapman
>
> <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> > I know people who take their pay checks to their employers bank
> >(often incurring a fee) because they do no want anyone in the company to
> >have their account number.
>
> Are you sure they are not just illegal aliens without a bank account?
Positive,. The two I am thinking of were born here. One refuses to
get an answering machine because he thinks it would let a thief know
that he was not home. I tried to explain that no answer is a stringer
sign of that than a machine where one might be screening calls but it
did not register.
>
> Given that your employer has your social security number and all sorts
> of other personal information about you, pulling your credit report
> and finding out ALL of your account numbers is trivial. Surely
> everyone knows this? Why would anyone bother to try to hide their
> checking account number from their employer?
== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:42 am
From: sfgeorge
On Dec 19, 7:20 am, "rick++" <rick...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The other safety technique I employ
> is a special "gateway account", i.e. one exposed to
> the outside world, with very limited funding.
> Its tied to checks, bill pay, and debit card.
> In general it always has less than $1000,
> except for the moment bills are paid.
> The deposit and billpays are scheduled to
> be simulataneous so no large amount exists
> for long.
I do that for purchases from companies that I do not have a history
with as well as my off shore bookie. I move what ever is needed for
the purchase into that account. It normally has less than $10 so I am
not worried about hacking.
By the way, while US law now prohibits use of credit/debit cards for
sports books (legal horse racing accounts are exempt) many places now
take electronic checks or run the credit/debit cards through a third
party with no fees to the customer.
== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:50 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
George Grapman wrote:
> In the early days of ATMs I worked with a man who had credit cards but
> refused to get an ATM card because he was afraid of cards. As a joke I
> offered to give him my ATM card for an hour in exchange for his credit
> card and see who could do the most damage.
Presumably without the PIN! The problem is the Mastercard or Visa logo
debit cards that can be used as a credit card without a PIN (as well as
an ATM card with a PIN).
If you lose your credit card, or someone gets your number, it's a minor
issue, as you are only responsible for a maximum of $50, and most
issuers waive even that, plus there is no real money taken from any
account. Lose your debit card, and even if the bank eventually restores
your funds, you're in for a tremendous amount of hassle.
What one guy wrote here about having a "gateway" account is a very good
idea if you use debit cards.
It's very strange that anyone would even want to use Mastercard or Visa
logoed debit card in place of a credit card, or even use a plain ATM
card when the store accepts credit cards. You get none of the
consumer protections you get with a credit card, you don't get the
rewards programs that credit cards offer, and you risk losing your
entire checking account balance.
I'm glad that a publication like Reader's Digest ran that article, as I
think that a lot of older citizens that eschew credit cards with the
"don't buy anything on credit" mentality will now understand the risks.
Especially good is the section that explains the credit card protections
built into the Fair Credit Billing Act.
The article ends with a bizarre statement by one of the people that was
scammed, with him saying about debit cards "I just can't give up the
convenience." Uh, has he ever found a restaurant that takes debit cards
but not credit cards?
They should have also warned people to be very careful about paying by
check to unknown individuals and businesses, as the draining of checking
accounts by scammers that obtain your account and routing number is also
a major problem. With ETF between the bank and most of your creditors,
you're a lot safer.
== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:12 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
krw wrote:
> In article <Mj0aj.238$6%.136@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, misc.consumers,
> sfgeorge@paccbell.net says...
>> krw wrote:
>>> In article <476873c2$0$84208$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
>>> misc.consumers, scharf.steven@geemail.com says...
>>>> imascot wrote:
>>>>> Anyone read the article warning people about debit cards in the new RD?
>>>>> Here's the website version, looks like the same one:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.rd.com/content/debit-card-traps-and-fees-to-avoid/
>>>>> I was surprised at the growing popularity of debit cards, I thought most
>>>>> people were getting into trouble with credit cards.
>>>> Debit cards are extremely dangerous. Never allow any business access to
>>>> your checking account. Never let a debit card out of your sight, i.e. to
>>>> pay a restaurant bill where they take it from you.
>>> If you're going to be that paranoid, don't have a checking account.
>>> Paying by check is no better than debit transaction.
>>>
>>>> It's amazing that anyone uses a debit card at all. You get none of the
>>>> consumer protections you get with a credit card, you don't get the
>>>> rewards programs that credit cards offer, and you risk losing your
>>>> entire checking account balance.
>>> No, you really don't. You may be in for a hassle, but it's not
>>> lost. Again, paying by check is no better, if you're that
>>> paranoid.
>> Actually it is worse as more people see your account details.
>
> I agree, but that little fact would burst the pinhead OP's head.
Paying by check is worse than paying by debit card to be sure, but you
have to look at the big picture. Basically what you want to control is
_any_ access to your checking account.
Here are some more tips to protect yourself:
1. Get rid of any MasterCard or Visa linked debit card, and use a
regular ATM card that always requires a PIN. Far from being "useless" as
one clueless poster wrote, they in fact can be used at almost any ATM
worldwide, and can be used at most businesses that accept debit cards,
but a PIN will always be required. Also use a bank that rebates ATM fees
from other bank's, and private ATMs.
2. Use a credit card whenever possible to make purchases and pay bills.
You gain all the federal protections of the Fair Credit Billing Act that
you don't have when you use a debit card. You also gain other advantages
such as easier returns without receipts (at many stores), easier record
keeping, and credit card rewards programs. I.e. when you buy gasoline,
should you use an ATM card, or use an Amex card that gives a 5% rebate?.
On a $50 fill-up, that's $2.50 I have "saved."
3. For automatic payment of bills, always link them to a credit card
account rather than directly to your checking account. You want to avoid
giving businesses direct access to your checking account.
4. For payments to businesses that don't accept credit cards i.e.
mortgages, some utilities, etc., "push" payment to them electronically,
don't let them "pull" from your account. If the amount is the same each
month, you can set it up to automatically push payments to them.
5. Be careful about giving paper checks to individuals and businesss
that you are not familiar with. A paper check gives them all the
information they need to drain your checking account.
== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:15 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
George Grapman wrote:
> imascot wrote:
>> Anyone read the article warning people about debit cards in the new
>> RD? Here's the website version, looks like the same one:
>>
>> http://www.rd.com/content/debit-card-traps-and-fees-to-avoid/
>> I was surprised at the growing popularity of debit cards, I thought
>> most people were getting into trouble with credit cards.
>>
>> J.
>
> My credit union offers the same protection for my debit card as my
> credit card. I recently won a dispute over a small bill.
> In addition should I exceed the balance they will first transfer funds
> from my checking account and then my money market account before
> declining the purchase,bouncing a check or imposing an overdraft charge.
> They charge nothing for this.
Yes, a bank or credit union can choose to essentially duplicate the
provisions of the Fair Credit Billing Act, but they are not required to
do so.
So if someone is able to obtain your account numbers or debit card, your
credit union will first drain your checking account, then drain your
money market account, and won't charge you for doing so. Such a deal.
== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:18 am
From: George Grapman
SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> imascot wrote:
>>> Anyone read the article warning people about debit cards in the new
>>> RD? Here's the website version, looks like the same one:
>>>
>>> http://www.rd.com/content/debit-card-traps-and-fees-to-avoid/
>>> I was surprised at the growing popularity of debit cards, I thought
>>> most people were getting into trouble with credit cards.
>>>
>>> J.
>>
>> My credit union offers the same protection for my debit card as my
>> credit card. I recently won a dispute over a small bill.
>> In addition should I exceed the balance they will first transfer
>> funds from my checking account and then my money market account before
>> declining the purchase,bouncing a check or imposing an overdraft
>> charge. They charge nothing for this.
>
> Yes, a bank or credit union can choose to essentially duplicate the
> provisions of the Fair Credit Billing Act, but they are not required to
> do so.
>
> So if someone is able to obtain your account numbers or debit card, your
> credit union will first drain your checking account, then drain your
> money market account, and won't charge you for doing so. Such a deal.
The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
my account the next day.
== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:37 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
George Grapman wrote:
> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in my
> account the next day.
Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
all without any money being removed from your account.
As the RD article pointed out, "Federal law generally limits your
liability to no more than $50 if your debit card is stolen or copied, as
long as you report the crime within two days of receiving your
statement. However, if you don't notice the suspicious activity till
weeks later, you may be liable for up to $500 or more." _Two Days_.
Geez, I rarely open my statements and examine them immediately upon
receipt. Generally they are opened when everything arrives and I do all
the bill payments in one banking session.
It was an excellent RD article, especially the advice regarding big
ticket items, where you really need the federal protections extended to
credit card purchases, "opt for credit for all expensive items, like
furniture."
== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:39 am
From: George Grapman
SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>
>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
>> my account the next day.
>
> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
> probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
> basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
> charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
> all without any money being removed from your account.
Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each time.
It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may vary slightly
from month to month.
>
> As the RD article pointed out, "Federal law generally limits your
> liability to no more than $50 if your debit card is stolen or copied, as
> long as you report the crime within two days of receiving your
> statement. However, if you don't notice the suspicious activity till
> weeks later, you may be liable for up to $500 or more." _Two Days_.
> Geez, I rarely open my statements and examine them immediately upon
> receipt. Generally they are opened when everything arrives and I do all
> the bill payments in one banking session.
>
> It was an excellent RD article, especially the advice regarding big
> ticket items, where you really need the federal protections extended to
> credit card purchases, "opt for credit for all expensive items, like
> furniture."
== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:50 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
Rick Blaine wrote:
> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
>> protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
>
> There's a difference between protection by bank policy and and protection by
> federal law.
>
>> They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
>
>
> There are three types of ATM or Debit cards these days:
>
> - The classic bank ATM card which works at local ATMs. It may work at local
> online retailers, if they all belong to a local or regional ATM network. These
> are almost impossible to find, but banks can issue them. There's no advantage to
> using one though.
Most banks issue them upon request. They are easy to find. However
you're correct that a Maestro or Electron card is just as safe, as both
require a PIN.
> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
> will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
> is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
> VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
> by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
to find at all.
> - Online/Offline Debit Cards. These have the Visa/MC logo on them, work online
> as described above, but can also look like a credit card to a merchant. The
> difference is that as sson as the "credit" transaction is processed, the money
> gets extracted from your account.
These are the ones that should be avoided. You lose all the federal
protections of the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are at great risk if the
card is lost or stolen, and of course there is no advantage to you to
use one versus a credit card.
> Banks love credit and credit like debit transactions, so they encourage offline
> and online use as credit cards. Why would you want tto process a debit card as a
> credit transaction? Your bank may offer miles or rebates as a cut of the deal.
The real question is why anyone would ever want to use a MC/Visa debit
card rather than a credit card. The advantages of using a credit card
are overwhelming. The banks, as well as Mastercard and Visa really want
you to use the MC/Visa debit card rather than a credit card. That should
be enough to convince anyone that it's better to use a credit card!
The banks _hate_ the protection provisions of the Fair Credit Billing
act. They spend a lot of money resolving disputes between the consumer
and the merchant, and complicating the process is that for full
protection everything has to be done in writing. I spend months on one
dispute with a merchant in San Francisco that double billed me, and it
must have cost the bank far more than the $100 value of the dispute.
I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo debit
card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think of any
good reasons.
== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 8:54 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
goaway@fractious.net wrote:
> "Melissa" <nospam@neo.rr.com> writes:
>
> [the ever popular credit versus debit card]
>
>> Our bank offers the same protection with our Debit card that they do with a
>> CC. We don't use it online, but use it almost exclusively for all local
>> purchases. We've never had a problem. I do monitor our bank account almost
>> daily online.
>
> The overall protection (ie. the amount of money you are
> liable for if there is fraud) is the same.
Not really. The band can choose to make it the same, but they aren't
required to. As the RD article pointed out, you have two days from
receiving your bank statement to dispute any debits, then your liability
goes way up.
> The hassle
> of dealing with it is different. In the one case,
> you (a) have to ask for your money back and wait for it
> and (b) may be bouncing checks or unable to get at
> your own cash in the meantime while they decide whether
> or not you've been defrauded. In the other case, you
> simply don't pay the bill.
True.
> In the end both are made (mostly, and generally) whole.
> It's the part between the fraud and resolution which
> makes the big difference.
That's true if the bank is, on it's own, duplicating the provisions of
federal law. It goes deeper than that though. The credit card issuer
simply takes the money back from the merchant while the dispute is being
resolved, while the debit card issuer cannot do that. The debit card
issuer has much more of an incentive to decide in favor of the merchant,
who already has the money.
== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:03 am
From: George Grapman
SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 wrote:
> goaway@fractious.net wrote:
>> "Melissa" <nospam@neo.rr.com> writes:
>>
>> [the ever popular credit versus debit card]
>>
>>> Our bank offers the same protection with our Debit card that they do
>>> with a CC. We don't use it online, but use it almost exclusively for
>>> all local purchases. We've never had a problem. I do monitor our bank
>>> account almost daily online.
>>
>> The overall protection (ie. the amount of money you are
>> liable for if there is fraud) is the same.
>
> Not really. The band can choose to make it the same, but they aren't
> required to. As the RD article pointed out, you have two days from
> receiving your bank statement to dispute any debits, then your liability
> goes way up.
>
>> The hassle
>> of dealing with it is different. In the one case,
>> you (a) have to ask for your money back and wait for it
>> and (b) may be bouncing checks or unable to get at your own cash in
>> the meantime while they decide whether
>> or not you've been defrauded. In the other case, you
>> simply don't pay the bill.
>
> True.
>
>> In the end both are made (mostly, and generally) whole.
>> It's the part between the fraud and resolution which
>> makes the big difference.
>
> That's true if the bank is, on it's own, duplicating the provisions of
> federal law. It goes deeper than that though. The credit card issuer
> simply takes the money back from the merchant while the dispute is being
> resolved, while the debit card issuer cannot do that. The debit card
> issuer has much more of an incentive to decide in favor of the merchant,
> who already has the money.
As I noted in a previous post the one time that I disputed a debit
card item the money was back in my account the next day.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ⊙ ⊙Christmas big ritual
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a06c0084a1b682e2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:34 am
From: cheapeshopcn1@gmail.com
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thegrand expense,
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the shop, pair of pants, with a pair of shoe, leteach person's
Christmas all are such joy
A:1shoes+1cloth+1jeans=99usd
B:1shoes+1cloth+1jeans+1handbag=119usd
C:12product(shoes,cloth,jeans)=319 usd
pls visit
www.cheapeshop.cn
⊙_⊙Christmas big ritual
⊙_⊙Christmas big ritual
⊙_⊙Christmas big ritual
⊙_⊙www.cheapeshop.cn
⊙_⊙www.cheapeshop.cn
==============================================================================
TOPIC: business credit cards for small businesses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/49e103e77f4e22c9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:43 am
From: Tutti
It is an undeniable fact that credit cards play an important role in
our society today.
For businessmen, business credit cards are a great help in separating
their personal accounts from their business accounts. It is a
convenient way to manage the company and the employee's business
expenditures. It also makes accounting and tax monitoring easier
through updated periodical reports of all purchases made......
for more information please join my group:
http://groups.google.com/group/business-credit-cards-for-small-and-large-businesses
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 7:44 am
From: Tutti
It is an undeniable fact that credit cards play an important role in
our society today.
For businessmen, business credit cards are a great help in separating
their personal accounts from their business accounts. It is a
convenient way to manage the company and the employee's business
expenditures. It also makes accounting and tax monitoring easier
through updated periodical reports of all purchases made......
for more information please join my group:
http://groups.google.com/group/business-credit-cards-for-small-and-large-businesses
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