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Today's topics:
* Ice cream shrinks again - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf443aea01762c8b?hl=en
* Debit card article in Reader's Digest - 18 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
* sweet shops - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/140b0bb22782b87f?hl=en
* Wholesale Adidas Jordan Women's Shoes,BAPE STA Gucci Prada Replica Shoes
Cheap Price !! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/954d9f119edc0397?hl=en
* Balance Transfer Credit Cards - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1fc106b4c9a2497d?hl=en
* "APRENDA A GANHAR DINHEIRO RÁPIDO"! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ae9e340f9d8ed528?hl=en
* Exploding television...All.. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ice cream shrinks again
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf443aea01762c8b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:09 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
nospam@nospam.com wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:15:15 -0500, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Shawn Hirn
> <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <DJY9j.3$Ks5.0@newsfe11.lga>, imascot <imnot@mycomputer.now>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I see that a "half gallon" of ice cream has now shrunk from 1.75 quarts to
>>> 1.5
>>> From what I've gathered, anything that has corn in it or used to eat corn has
>>> gone up in price, for instance, corn muffins, which used to the same price as
>>> blueberry, are now a dollar more for a package of six.
>>>
>>> I'd rather have expanding prices than shrinking product size, though.
>> The price of corn and products that use it is on the way up because corn
>> has become a popular crop for ethanol.
>
>
> I suppose the price of everything sweetened with corn will go up. Maybe they
> will switch back to sugar for sweetening processed foods. Will that raise the
> price of sugars?
I think that most decent ice cream still uses sugar. Sugar is actually
cheaper than corn syrup on the world market, but it's the sugar price
supports that keep U.S. sugar prices so high, and the corn syrup
producers like ADM are the number one supporters of keeping sugar expensive.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:11 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
George Grapman wrote:
> As I noted in a previous post the one time that I disputed a debit
> card item the money was back in my account the next day.
Yes, and that's an example of one. You may have an exceptionally good
credit union. The point is that the credit union _chose_ to provide that
level of service, but there was no law compelling it to act the way it did.
== 2 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:10 am
From: Rick Blaine
SMS ???• ? <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
>problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
> Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
>to find at all.
>
By hard to find, I mean the bank does not advertise it, make it easy to get and
in some cases, will refuse to issue this type of debit card. The reason is easy
to understand: Issuing banks collect an average 3% on credit or signature debit
transactions and an average of .25 on online debit transactions. They aren't
going to want to make it easy for you to obtain an online only card.
>> - Online/Offline Debit Cards. These have the Visa/MC logo on them, work online
>> as described above, but can also look like a credit card to a merchant. The
>> difference is that as soon as the "credit" transaction is processed, the money
>> gets extracted from your account.
>
>These are the ones that should be avoided. You lose all the federal
>protections of the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are at great risk if the
>card is lost or stolen, and of course there is no advantage to you to
>use one versus a credit card.
>
Agreed 100%.
>
>The real question is why anyone would ever want to use a MC/Visa debit
>card rather than a credit card. The advantages of using a credit card
>are overwhelming. The banks, as well as Mastercard and Visa really want
>you to use the MC/Visa debit card rather than a credit card. That should
>be enough to convince anyone that it's better to use a credit card!
Minor clarification: The real question is why anyone would want to use a MC/Visa
signature (offline) debit card for the reasons you cited. Some people have valid
reasons for using online (PIN required) debit. That's no different and much
safer than carrying cash. While there's nothing wrong with using an MC/Visa card
in the online mode (ie with a PIN), the fact that the card could be used by a
thief without a PIN makes it a poor choice to carry.
>
>The banks _hate_ the protection provisions of the Fair Credit Billing
>act. They spend a lot of money resolving disputes between the consumer
>and the merchant, and complicating the process is that for full
>protection everything has to be done in writing. I spend months on one
>dispute with a merchant in San Francisco that double billed me, and it
>must have cost the bank far more than the $100 value of the dispute.
>
Yes, the more enlightened banks look at the amount of the dispute and choose to
eat the difference themself when the cost of resolving it exceeds the value of
the transaction.
>I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo debit
>card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think of any
>good reasons.
Agreed.
--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
== 3 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:12 am
From: Larry Bud
On Dec 18, 8:30 pm, SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> imascot wrote:
> > Anyone read the article warning people about debit cards in the new RD?
> > Here's the website version, looks like the same one:
>
> >http://www.rd.com/content/debit-card-traps-and-fees-to-avoid/
> > I was surprised at the growing popularity of debit cards, I thought most
> > people were getting into trouble with credit cards.
>
> Debit cards are extremely dangerous. Never allow any business access to
> your checking account. Never let a debit card out of your sight, i.e. to
> pay a restaurant bill where they take it from you.
>
> It's amazing that anyone uses a debit card at all. You get none of the
> consumer protections you get with a credit card, you don't get the
> rewards programs that credit cards offer, and you risk losing your
> entire checking account balance.
No you don't. You have the same fraud protection as a credit card.
== 4 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:27 am
From: George Grapman
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>
>> As I noted in a previous post the one time that I disputed a debit
>> card item the money was back in my account the next day.
>
> Yes, and that's an example of one. You may have an exceptionally good
> credit union. The point is that the credit union _chose_ to provide that
> level of service, but there was no law compelling it to act the way it did.
That level of service is why I bank with them. I rarely use a teller
but when I do and the line has more than a few people a branch manager
will handle transactions. In addition I can use ATMs at almost any 7-11
without incurring charges.
I left Wells-Fargo because each branch seems to have one employee
whose sole job is to walk around i circles behind the counter and smile
at the growing line.
== 5 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:35 am
From: Rick Blaine
Larry Bud <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>No you don't. You have the same fraud protection as a credit card.
_No, they do not._
The federal Truth in Lending Act (TILA) (15 U.S.C. §§ 1601-1667f, as amended),
requires creditors to disclose information about interest rates and other terms
of credit.
The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA) (15 U.S.C. 1666-1666j), part of TILA,
protects you against billing mistakes and unauthorized charges.
Neither of these laws appliy to debit transactions. Furthermore, debit cards
provide following "minuses" (from PrivacyRights.org):
# Debit cards don't carry the same legal protection as credit cards. Federal law
limits your liability on a debit card to $50, but only if you notify your
financial institution within two business days of discovery of the theft. If you
wait longer than 60 days after your bank statement was mailed, you could lose
all the money in your checking account, and even more! We at the PRC have been
contacted by many identity theft victims who have experienced debit card fraud.
While in most cases their banks eventually replenished the stolen funds from
their checking accounts, many were without access for several weeks while the
bank conducted its investigation. In the meantime, they were caught short,
unable to pay their bills.
# Consumer protections for debit cards are not as strong as those for credit
cards. Because funds are deducted from your account quickly, you do not have the
option to stop payment in a dispute.
Debit and ATM card transactions are included in the broader category of EFT or
electronic funds transfers. Use of these cards and your potential loss are
governed by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act (EFT Act) (15 U.S.C. §§
1693-1693r)
# The big car-rental firms, including Hertz and Avis, have stopped letting
people rent cars using debit cards. For years, these companies have used
possession of a credit card as a way of weeding out potentially risky renters.
But with banks issuing debit cards to nearly anyone with a bank account, the
car-rental outfits have tightened their rules.
# Another debit card danger arises from merchant "blocking." Blocking occurs
when a merchant routinely withholds an amount on a debit card until the
transaction is fully processed. This typically occurs at hotels, gas stations,
and those rental car companies that still accept debit cards. When you use a
debit card, the blocked amount can cause your bank account to be overdrawn.
# You might be charged for "potential" overdrafts. With off-line
(signature-based) transactions, the debit is processed through the credit card
payments system, which means the money takes a few days to be deducted from your
account However, at least one major bank charges an overdraft (bounced check)
fee when pending debit card transactions exceed your available balance, even
though your balance is sufficient to cover the debit when it is finally
processed through the system.
# Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to run up a huge debt with a debit
card. Some banks process debit card charges despite insufficient account
balances, creating overdrafts. This can catch cardholders by surprise and
undermine their sense of fiscal security.
# Some debit card issuers allow only a fixed number of uses each month. After
that, they charge fees. Some issuers enforce maximum daily spending limits,
which can create a problem while shopping for large-ticket items.
# In addition, consumers who use debit cards to the exclusion of credit cards
may be missing an opportunity to establish their creditworthiness. Responsible
use of credit cards—unlike debit cards—helps build good credit scores. A good
credit score can reduce the rates that you pay on car loans, mortgages, and
insurance premiums.
--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
== 6 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:40 am
From: Vic Smith
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:39:04 -0800, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>SMS ???• ? wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>
>>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
>>> my account the next day.
>>
>> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
>> probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
>> basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
>> charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
>> all without any money being removed from your account.
>
>
> Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each time.
>It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may vary slightly
>from month to month.
>>
Right there is a huge disadvantage of debit cards.
You have to check your account balance twice a day!
What a hassle! That card has you by the balls.
--Vic
== 7 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:58 am
From: Bill
SMS ???• ? wrote:
>
> I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo debit
> card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think of any
> good reasons.
There are people who have posted here in the past who are
convinced that credit cards are evil. I still don't understand
it but apparently they were burned (or heard of someone who has)
and block out all the benefits of using credit cards so they can
focus on the perceived bad stuff. Of course, if you have trouble
paying your credit card bill in full each month (or worse, don't
understand the reason to do so), then you should not be using
them.
BTW in addition to all that has been mentioned, one big reason
for using a credit card for electronics purchases (or almost
anything with a warranty) is the up to an extra year of warranty
you get for using it. That should be reason enough. And of
course you have the rebates, which lets you make money for using
the card.
Bill
== 8 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:59 am
From: Vic Smith
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:50:04 -0800, SMS ???• ?
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>Rick Blaine wrote:
>> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
>> will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
>> is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
>> VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
>> by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
>> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
>
>Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
>problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
> Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
>to find at all.
>
When BankOne was taken over by Chase, Chase sent me a Visa logoed
debit card. I cut it up, called Chase , and asked for PIN verified
ATM card. It was here in 3 days.
I agree with you. The only advantage to a debit card is not paying a
once-a-month bill as you do with a CC.
That is nulled by CC auto bill pay if you wish.
Disadvantages to a debit card are numerous.
No carry.
Cash back? (not sure)
Dispute/Fraud process is at bank discretion, not mandated.
Unprotected access to you bank account should the card be lost or
stolen.
Possibility of NSF charges due to fraud.
Why do people use them? Either they can't control their credit buying
or they are sheep. Or both.
--Vic
== 9 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:02 am
From: George Grapman
Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:39:04 -0800, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> SMS ???• ? wrote:
>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>
>>>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
>>>> my account the next day.
>>> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
>>> probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
>>> basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
>>> charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
>>> all without any money being removed from your account.
>>
>> Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each time.
>> It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may vary slightly
>>from month to month.
> Right there is a huge disadvantage of debit cards.
> You have to check your account balance twice a day!
> What a hassle! That card has you by the balls.
>
> --Vic
Yes, such a hassle that, as I already noted, it takes me all of 30
seconds each time that I do it.
== 10 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:04 am
From: George Grapman
Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:50:04 -0800, SMS ???• ?
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick Blaine wrote:
>>> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
>>> will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
>>> is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
>>> VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
>>> by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
>>> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
>> Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
>> problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
>> Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
>> to find at all.
>>
> When BankOne was taken over by Chase, Chase sent me a Visa logoed
> debit card. I cut it up, called Chase , and asked for PIN verified
> ATM card. It was here in 3 days.
> I agree with you. The only advantage to a debit card is not paying a
> once-a-month bill as you do with a CC.
> That is nulled by CC auto bill pay if you wish.
> Disadvantages to a debit card are numerous.
> No carry.
> Cash back? (not sure)
> Dispute/Fraud process is at bank discretion, not mandated.
> Unprotected access to you bank account should the card be lost or
> stolen.
> Possibility of NSF charges due to fraud.
> Why do people use them? Either they can't control their credit buying
> or they are sheep. Or both.
>
> --Vic
I use mine because any time I need cash I can go to a store,buy
something with the card and get cash back with no charge. Beats having
to drive around looking for an ATM.
== 11 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:26 am
From: ranck@vt.edu
In misc.consumers.frugal-living SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> > - Online/Offline Debit Cards. These have the Visa/MC logo on them, work online
> > as described above, but can also look like a credit card to a merchant. The
> > difference is that as sson as the "credit" transaction is processed, the money
> > gets extracted from your account.
> These are the ones that should be avoided. You lose all the federal
> protections of the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are at great risk if the
> card is lost or stolen, and of course there is no advantage to you to
> use one versus a credit card.
Except, of course, that both Visa and Mastercard provide zero liability
fraud protection on their branded debit cards. In other words, the
big credit card companies are providing more protection than required
by law. Yes, they could change that, but they have not in many years.
In fact, the only time the zero liability doesn't apply with Mastercard
is if you use the PIN with your debit card. Signature transactions
are protected. This is not a local bank decision, it's Visa and Mastercard
policies so it's true for *any* bank's debit card that has a Visa or MC logo.
Read the info at www.visa.com and mastercard.com for details.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
== 12 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:29 am
From: Vic Smith
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:02:11 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>Vic Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:39:04 -0800, George Grapman
>> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> SMS ???• ? wrote:
>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
>>>>> my account the next day.
>>>> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
>>>> probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
>>>> basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
>>>> charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
>>>> all without any money being removed from your account.
>>>
>>> Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each time.
>>> It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may vary slightly
>>>from month to month.
>> Right there is a huge disadvantage of debit cards.
>> You have to check your account balance twice a day!
>> What a hassle! That card has you by the balls.
>>
>> --Vic
> Yes, such a hassle that, as I already noted, it takes me all of 30
>seconds each time that I do it.
You really don't do that, do you?
I can't imagine being forced to look at my bank account twice a day
to make sure no fraud has occurred.
--Vic
== 13 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:30 am
From: Vic Smith
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:04:36 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>Vic Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:50:04 -0800, SMS ???• ?
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rick Blaine wrote:
>>>> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
>>>> will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
>>>> is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
>>>> VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
>>>> by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
>>>> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
>>> Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
>>> problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
>>> Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
>>> to find at all.
>>>
>> When BankOne was taken over by Chase, Chase sent me a Visa logoed
>> debit card. I cut it up, called Chase , and asked for PIN verified
>> ATM card. It was here in 3 days.
>> I agree with you. The only advantage to a debit card is not paying a
>> once-a-month bill as you do with a CC.
>> That is nulled by CC auto bill pay if you wish.
>> Disadvantages to a debit card are numerous.
>> No carry.
>> Cash back? (not sure)
>> Dispute/Fraud process is at bank discretion, not mandated.
>> Unprotected access to you bank account should the card be lost or
>> stolen.
>> Possibility of NSF charges due to fraud.
>> Why do people use them? Either they can't control their credit buying
>> or they are sheep. Or both.
>>
>> --Vic
> I use mine because any time I need cash I can go to a store,buy
>something with the card and get cash back with no charge. Beats having
>to drive around looking for an ATM.
Never thought of that one. I have plenty of ATM's handy, but hardly
ever use cash anyway.
--Vic
== 14 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:51 am
From: George Grapman
Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:04:36 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:50:04 -0800, SMS ???• ?
>>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rick Blaine wrote:
>>>>> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but most banks
>>>>> will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called Electron and MC's version
>>>>> is called Maestro. These work in your local ATM, any online store that takes
>>>>> VisaMC and most ATMs belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled
>>>>> by your bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
>>>>> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
>>>> Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
>>>> problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default (sending a
>>>> Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they are not hard
>>>> to find at all.
>>>>
>>> When BankOne was taken over by Chase, Chase sent me a Visa logoed
>>> debit card. I cut it up, called Chase , and asked for PIN verified
>>> ATM card. It was here in 3 days.
>>> I agree with you. The only advantage to a debit card is not paying a
>>> once-a-month bill as you do with a CC.
>>> That is nulled by CC auto bill pay if you wish.
>>> Disadvantages to a debit card are numerous.
>>> No carry.
>>> Cash back? (not sure)
>>> Dispute/Fraud process is at bank discretion, not mandated.
>>> Unprotected access to you bank account should the card be lost or
>>> stolen.
>>> Possibility of NSF charges due to fraud.
>>> Why do people use them? Either they can't control their credit buying
>>> or they are sheep. Or both.
>>>
>>> --Vic
>> I use mine because any time I need cash I can go to a store,buy
>> something with the card and get cash back with no charge. Beats having
>> to drive around looking for an ATM.
>
> Never thought of that one. I have plenty of ATM's handy, but hardly
> ever use cash anyway.
>
> --Vic
When I travel that feature come in handy. On a recent vacation I
needed cash for things ranging from newspapers to public transit to
street food.
== 15 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:52 am
From: George Grapman
Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:02:11 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:39:04 -0800, George Grapman
>>> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SMS ???• ? wrote:
>>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was back in
>>>>>> my account the next day.
>>>>> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of people,
>>>>> probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts on a daily
>>>>> basis. With a credit card statement, you get a detailed list of all
>>>>> charges once a month. Then you have several weeks to dispute any charge,
>>>>> all without any money being removed from your account.
>>>> Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each time.
>>>> It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may vary slightly
>>> >from month to month.
>>> Right there is a huge disadvantage of debit cards.
>>> You have to check your account balance twice a day!
>>> What a hassle! That card has you by the balls.
>>>
>>> --Vic
>> Yes, such a hassle that, as I already noted, it takes me all of 30
>> seconds each time that I do it.
>
> You really don't do that, do you?
> I can't imagine being forced to look at my bank account twice a day
> to make sure no fraud has occurred.
>
> --Vic
A whole 60 seconds a day while I am doing other things.
== 16 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:32 am
From: "Rod Speed"
George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
> SMS ???. ? wrote:
>> George Grapman wrote:
>>
>>> As I noted in a previous post the one time that I disputed a debit
>>> card item the money was back in my account the next day.
>>
>> Yes, and that's an example of one. You may have an exceptionally good
>> credit union. The point is that the credit union _chose_ to provide
>> that level of service, but there was no law compelling it to act the
>> way it did.
> That level of service is why I bank with them.
That isnt as useful when making general statements
about which type of card is safer to use tho.
> I rarely use a teller but when I do and the line has more than a few people a branch manager will handle transactions.
> In addition I can use ATMs at almost any 7-11 without incurring charges.
> I left Wells-Fargo because each branch seems to have one employee
> whose sole job is to walk around i circles behind the counter and
> smile at the growing line.
== 17 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:02:11 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:39:04 -0800, George Grapman
>>> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SMS ???. ? wrote:
>>>>> George Grapman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The one time I had a dispute on my debit card the amount was
>>>>>> back in my account the next day.
>>>>> Because you noticed it in time. That's another problem, a lot of
>>>>> people, probably most people, don't look at their bank accounts
>>>>> on a daily basis. With a credit card statement, you get a
>>>>> detailed list of all charges once a month. Then you have several
>>>>> weeks to dispute any charge, all without any money being removed
>>>>> from your account.
>>>>
>>>> Correct. I check mine twice a day. Takes about 30 seconds each
>>>> time. It also helps me keep track of recurring charges which may
>>>> vary slightly from month to month.
>>> Right there is a huge disadvantage of debit cards.
>>> You have to check your account balance twice a day!
>>> What a hassle! That card has you by the balls.
>>>
>>> --Vic
>> Yes, such a hassle that, as I already noted, it takes me all of 30
>> seconds each time that I do it.
>
> You really don't do that, do you?
> I can't imagine being forced to look at my bank account twice a day
> to make sure no fraud has occurred.
Mine sends an email notification of each transaction, so you dont have to check.
And it can be an SMS notification if you prefer too.
== 18 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:39 am
From: "Rod Speed"
SMS ???. ? <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Rick Blaine wrote:
>> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
>>> protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
>>
>> There's a difference between protection by bank policy and and
>> protection by federal law.
>>
>>> They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
>>
>>
>> There are three types of ATM or Debit cards these days:
>>
>> - The classic bank ATM card which works at local ATMs. It may work
>> at local online retailers, if they all belong to a local or regional
>> ATM network. These are almost impossible to find, but banks can
>> issue them. There's no advantage to using one though.
>
> Most banks issue them upon request. They are easy to find. However
> you're correct that a Maestro or Electron card is just as safe, as
> both require a PIN.
>
>> - An online only VisaMC branded ATM card. These are hard to find but
>> most banks will issue them if pressed. Visa's version is called
>> Electron and MC's version is called Maestro. These work in your
>> local ATM, any online store that takes VisaMC and most ATMs
>> belonging to other banks. They work worldwide if so enabled by your
>> bank. If you want to use a debit card, they are the safest to use as
>> they require realtime entry of a PIN.
>
> Again, these are very easy to find. They are issued upon request. The
> problem is that you're equating what the bank does by default
> (sending a Visa/MC Logo card) with "hard to find" when in fact they
> are not hard to find at all.
>
>> - Online/Offline Debit Cards. These have the Visa/MC logo on them,
>> work online as described above, but can also look like a credit card
>> to a merchant. The difference is that as sson as the "credit"
>> transaction is processed, the money gets extracted from your account.
>
> These are the ones that should be avoided. You lose all the federal
> protections of the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are at great risk if
> the card is lost or stolen, and of course there is no advantage to
> you to use one versus a credit card.
>
>> Banks love credit and credit like debit transactions, so they
>> encourage offline and online use as credit cards. Why would you want
>> tto process a debit card as a credit transaction? Your bank may
>> offer miles or rebates as a cut of the deal.
>
> The real question is why anyone would ever want to use a MC/Visa debit
> card rather than a credit card. The advantages of using a credit card
> are overwhelming. The banks, as well as Mastercard and Visa really
> want you to use the MC/Visa debit card rather than a credit card.
> That should be enough to convince anyone that it's better to use a
> credit card!
> The banks _hate_ the protection provisions of the Fair Credit Billing
> act. They spend a lot of money resolving disputes between the consumer
> and the merchant, and complicating the process is that for full
> protection everything has to be done in writing. I spend months on one
> dispute with a merchant in San Francisco that double billed me, and it
> must have cost the bank far more than the $100 value of the dispute.
>
> I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo
> debit card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think
> of any good reasons.
One obvious reason is that you dont have to fart around paying the card off in full every month.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: sweet shops
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/140b0bb22782b87f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 9:20 am
From: clams casino
ashayw@hotmail.com wrote:
>i have just found this great online sweet shop,it takes me right back
>to my childhood
>
>
You found your own web site? Did you ever progress beyond your childhood?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Adidas Jordan Women's Shoes,BAPE STA Gucci Prada Replica
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/954d9f119edc0397?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Balance Transfer Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1fc106b4c9a2497d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 10:24 am
From: xini1814@yeah.net
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "APRENDA A GANHAR DINHEIRO RÁPIDO"!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ae9e340f9d8ed528?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:10 am
From: SOUZA
Nome: JAIData: 06 de Janeiro de 2002 às 19:55:23Assunto: APRENDA A
GANHAR DINHEIRO RÁPIDO
Comentário: Como transformar seis reais em no mínimo seis mil reais!
Você é capaz, apenas faça funcionar! Eu encontrei esta mensagem em um
site e decidi tentar. Pouco curioso por natureza, continuei lendo.
Logo abaixo, o texto apresenta uma lista com 6 nomes com endereços. O
texto propõe enviar pelo correio, R$ 1,00 para cada um dos 6 nomes com
endereços declarados (investimento de R$ 6,00 e 6 selos). Depois de
feito isto, o texto propõe colocar meu próprio nome na posição #6 da
lista, eliminando o nome da posição #1, e enviar este artigo para pelo
menos 200 fóruns ou newsgroups (existem dezenas de milhares). Nada
mais, só isto é suficiente para você ganhar muito dinheiro. Assim
depois de refletir sobre isto, e falando primeiro com algumas pessoas,
cheguei à conclusão: "o que eu tenho a perder além de 6 selos e R$
6,00 ?" Resolvi então tentar esta jogada. Afinal, numa ida ao cinema
ou ao shopping, eu gasto mais que isso. Então mandei os R$6,00 para as
pessoas da lista e enviei este artigo para 200 fóruns, conforme propõe
este artigo. E olhem! Qual não foi minha SURPRESA! Já na semana
seguinte comecei a receber dinheiro pelo correio! Eu fiquei chocado!
Pensei que iria acabar logo, mas o dinheiro continuou chegando. Só na
primeira semana recebi R$ 16,00, mais do que o dinheiro investido. Ao
final da terceira semana eu já tinha recebido mais de R$1.000,00! Após
6 semanas já passavam de R$10.000,00 e continua chegando. Por isso
estou entrando novamente na lista. Com certeza já gastei muito mais
que isto na loteria e nunca ganhei nada!! É importante saber COMO
funciona e PORQUE funciona... Garanto que se você seguir as diretrizes
da maneira como é dita, logo começará a ganhar mais dinheiro do que
você pensou ser possível fazendo algo tão fácil!) Amigos meus também
fizeram e já estão se dando bem. ATENÇÃO: Leia toda esta mensagem
cuidadosamente! (imprima e salve.) Imprima uma cópia deste artigo
AGORA, assim você pode ler melhor as informações. Siga as instruções e
veja o dinheiro entrar! SELECIONE todo o texto deste artigo, clicando
o mouse no início do texto e arrastando-o até o final. Em seguida
clique no menu Editar e Copiar. Abra seu processador de texto (Word ou
outro) e clique no menu Editar e Colar. Salve o arquivo como .txt.
LEMBRE-SE: Seu investimento é só R$ 6.00 (mais correio). É fácil, é
lucrativo e Funciona!!! É imprescindível seguir todas as instruções
corretamente. O funcionamento depende disto. ATENÇÃO POR FAVOR: Este
programa permanece próspero por causa da honestidade e da integridade
dos participantes. Por favor, siga corretamente as instruções, para
que o programa continue sendo um sucesso. Agindo rápido e
corretamente, em 20 a 60 dias mais de R$10.000,00 podem ser seus. Aqui
estão os 4 passos fáceis para o sucesso: PASSO 1: Separe 6 meias
folhas de papel e escreva em cada uma, o seguinte bilhete: "POR FAVOR,
PONHA-ME EM SUA LISTA DE REMETENTES" colocando seu nome e endereço
logo abaixo. Agora adquira 6 notas de R$ 1,00 e envolva cada uma em um
dos bilhetes que você acabou de escrever. Em seguida, envolva cada um
deles novamente com um papel escuro, para evitar que alguém veja a
nota e viole o envelope, roubando o dinheiro. Então coloque cada um
dentro de um envelope e lacre. A lista abaixo contém 6 nomes com
endereços e você tem 6 envelopes lacrados. Você deve REMETER PELO
CORREIO, um envelope para cada um dos nomes da lista. Faça isto,
anotando corretamente o nome e o endereço nos envelopes, depositando
em seguida no correio. #1) Felipe Lenzi - R. Monteiro Lobato 147 -
Porto Alegre - RS, CEP 90620-270 #2) Luiz de Paula - Estrada da Canoa,
158 Bl.2 Apto. 110 Rio de Janeiro - RJ, CEP. 22610-210 #3) Luisa Costa
- R. Amazonas nº 80 apto. 602 - Pituba - Salvador-BA , CEP
41830-380#4) Jailton Moreira - Caminho 23, nº 06 - Urbis - IV -
Itabuna-Ba, CEP 45600.000#5) Fabio Andrade - Rua do Queimado,26 - A,
1º andar - Lapinha, Salvador-Ba, Cep 40325-260#6) Renato Souza-Av:
Monte Celeste,365 Apto. 20-Bairro do Limão-São Paulo-Cep: 02561-000-
Brasil PASSO 2: Elimine o primeiro nome da lista (#1). Reordene a
lista de 1 a 5, ou seja (2 torna-se1), (3 torna-se 2), etc.. Coloque o
SEU nome e endereço como o sexto da lista. PASSO 3: Após feitas as
alterações acima, POSTE este artigo em pelo menos 200 fóruns ou
newsgroups. Você pode modificar o texto deste artigo, mas por favor,
mantenha a integridade da mensagem. Isto é importante. LEMBRE-SE,
quanto mais você mandar, mais dinheiro você ganhará! Você não ganhará
muito postando como louco. A melhor maneira de postar é colocar como
título, que fica visível para todos. Agora, poste seu artigo
modificado (ou esse mesmo) e GANHE DINHEIRO FÁCIL Existem milhares de
fóruns (newsgroups). Você só precisa de 200. Então mãos à obra LEMBRE-
SE Toda vez que alguém agir como você, salvando esta mensagem,
seguindo e executando corretamente todas as instruções, 6 pessoas
estão sendo beneficiadas com R$ 1,00 cada e seu nome subirá na lista.
Assim as listas multiplicam-se rapidamente e seu nome vai subindo até
atingir a primeira posição. Desta forma quando seu nome alcançar a #1
posição, você já terá recebido milhares de reais em DINHEIRO VIVO!
Lembre-se que você só investiu R$6.00. Envie agora os envelopes, suba
o nome dos participantes da lista e adicione seu próprio nome na sexta
posição da lista, poste-a nos fóruns e você está no negócio! --------
COMO POSTAR NOS NEWSGROUPS -------- Etapa 1) Copie e salve este artigo
em seu editor de texto. (selecione o texto, clique em Editar e Copiar,
abra seu editor de texto e clique em Editar e Colar, depois clique em
Arquivo e Salvar como .txt) Etapa 2) Faça as devidas alterações neste
artigo, incluindo seu nome na sexta posição da lista. Etapa 3) Salve
novamente o arquivo. Clique em Editar e Selecionar tudo. Clique
novamente em Editar e Copiar. Etapa 4) Abra seu navegador, Netscape,
Internet Explorer ou algum outro qualquer e procure vários newsgroups
(fóruns on-line, cadernos de mensagens, locais de conversa,
discussões) e poste uma mensagem nova em cada MURAL ou ÁREA, ou algo
similar. Etapa 5) Para postar entre nesses newsgroups. No campo
destinado para digitar o texto ou mensagem a ser enviada para o
newsgroups, clique com o botão direito do mouse. Em seguida clique em
Colar. Como Assunto ou título, digite um nome que chame a atenção,
como o meu, ou invente algo parecido. Clique em enviar e pronto, você
acabou de enviar sua primeira mensagem! Parabéns... Etapa 6) Selecione
outro newsgroups e repita o passo 5. Faça isso no mínimo para 200
newsgroups. **QUANTO MAIS MENSAGENS VOCÊ ENVIAR AOS NEWSGROUPS MAIS
CHANCES VOCÊ TERÁ DE GANHAR MAIS DINHEIRO ** Pronto! Você logo
começará a receber dinheiro pelo correio. Se você deseja ficar
anônimo, você pode inventar um nome para usar na lista, contanto que o
endereço esteja certo para que você receba o dinheiro. **CONFIRA SEU
ENDEREÇO!!!. * * Agora vamos ver POR QUE rende tanto dinheiro: Fazendo
uma análise bastante pessimista, vamos supor que de cada 200
postagens, apenas 5 dêem retorno. Assim das minhas 200 mensagens,
receberei apenas R$5,00 referentes ao meu nome na #6 posição. Agora,
cada uma das 5 pessoas que me enviaram R$1,00 postaram mais 200
mensagens cada uma. Se apenas 5 de cada 200 retornarem, receberei R$
25,00 referentes ao meu nome na #5 posição. Agora, cada uma das 25
pessoas que me enviaram R$1,00 postaram mais 200 mensagens cada uma.
Se apenas 5 de cada 200 retornarem, receberei R$ 125,00 referentes ao
meu nome na #4 posição. LEMBRE-SE ! Estamos considerando um exemplo
extremamente fraco. Agora, cada uma das 125 pessoas que me enviaram R
$1,00 postaram mais 200 mensagens cada uma. Se apenas 5 de cada 200
retornarem, receberei R$ 625,00 referentes ao meu nome na #3 posição.
Agora, cada uma das 625 pessoas que me enviaram R$1,00 postaram mais
200 mensagens cada uma. Se apenas 5 de cada 200 retornarem, receberei
então R$ 3.125,00 referentes ao meu nome na #2 posição. Agora, cada
uma das pessoas que me enviaram R$1,00 postaram mais 200 mensagens
cada uma. Se apenas 5 de cada 200 retornarem, receberei nesta última
fase R$ 15.625,00 referentes ao meu nome na #1 posição. INCRÍVEL! Com
um investimento original de apenas R$6,00, cria-se uma oportunidade
gigantesca. Estima-se que entre 20.000 e 50.000 novas pessoas se
juntem à Internet todos os dias e vão para os chats e newsgroups. "O
que são seis reais para tentar uma chance milionária que pode dar
certo?" As chances são grandes quando milhões de pessoas honestas como
você estão se juntando a esse grupo?? Lembre-se, a HONESTIDADE faz
parte deste jogo. MANDE UM DÓLAR AO INVÉS DE UM REAL PARA OS
ESTRANGEIROS
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding television...All..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:32 am
From: maryatbeach@webtv.net (Mary Mathews)
Thanks for all this information. When the owner returns from the
hospital we might learn more. I do know that she had given a dinner
party that night. All the guests had left except one who had stayed to
help the hostess clean up. I doubt there was a mortgage on that home
that had been in the family for generations.
I only heard of a TV exploding once before. It was an American living in
Germany. I will ask her for details. It seems she had left it on while
she was away for a short time. Mary
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 11:47 am
From: "Rod Speed"
** Frank ** <noemall@xyz.net> wrote:
> "PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:63ngm317ihhc292eu9imva25b7on59t5b6@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:04:28 -0800 (PST), sarge137
>> <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 18, 10:20 am, maryatbe...@webtv.net (Mary Mathews) wrote:
>>>> My sister's friend's TV exploded. The two ladies there were hurt
>>>> and taken to the hospital. The house burned to the ground. Does
>>>> anyone here know about exploding TV's and what we can do to
>>>> prevent such an accident? Thanks. Mary
>>>
>>> Can't say for sure Mary, but I'd bet next month's mortgage payment
>>> that there's way more to the story. Television don't "explode".
>>>
>>> I've seen cases where house fires were started by faulty electrical
>>> circuits in televisions, then the picture tube exploded from the
>>> heat of the ensuing fire; but in over forty years I've never seen
>>> or even heard of anyone being injured from a spontaneously exploding
>>> television.
>>>
>>> If you're really concerned about this I'd suggest you contact your
>>> sister's friend and get all the facts.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Sarge
>>
>>
>> A TV CRT is a vacuum tube. Should it fail it implodes not explode.
>> The tube itself is thin glass ande well protected by the TV box. In
>> front where the TV picture is, is a thick cornformal piece of glass
>> that protects the vacuum tube from imploding should you knock with a
>> piece of furniture or throw a can of beer at it. It take quite a
>> hammer force to break that protective glass layer. Next, should
>> there be a short circuit the main fuse from the power cord to the
>> transformer blows immediately. No power, no fire. The OP is making
>> up the story.
>
> I agree, sounds like the OP needed information to scam the insurance
> company. I've taken a 12 pound sledgehammer to break up the front of
> a few picture tubes - takes a few good whacks before I could crack
> it, after releasing the vacuum first, of course. So very unlikely
> anyone could get hurt from a CRT, and an implosion at that. Short
> circuit within the TV could cause an explosion (a little pop that is)
> and the capacitor could explode but no way could hurt anyone and the
> TV box should contain all of it. If the TV catches on fire, for
> whatever reason, it would be most lightly a slow fire and the friends
> of the sister let it burn. Sounds like they let the house burn to the
> ground intentionally.
Or there was no one to notice the fire when it happened, or they were asleep etc.
> If the two ladies were hurt they were not watching a TV program, but
> more likely fooling around inside the TV box and don't know what they
> were doing.
Or were asleep when the fire happened.
> The assumption is CRT, but OP didn't say. Can't see LED, rear
> projection or plasma panel could cause this kind of damage either. So what kind of TV is she talking about?
> Of course, this is all theory without having further information, but
> I think the homeowner's insurance company has a strong cause to
> refuse payment and possibly bring up fraud charges.
Nope, not when the occupants could be asleep when the fire happened.
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