Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's an average wait time for large checks deposited?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca72020d3b4132af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 6:56 am
From: James

On Sep 17, 8:27 am, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 17, 7:38 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I just sold some stocks so that we could finally pay off our mortgage
> > completely. I got the checks from scottrade in the mail yesterday, and went
> > to deposit them. I was told there would be a delay before the funds would
> > be available. I figured it would be maybe 3 days. They told me it would be
> > 5, so I figured max of 1 week including the weekend.
>
> > When I got home, I noticed that the receipt said the funds would be
> > available OCTOBER 1, not the 5 days I had been told. So now I have to wait
> > a full two weeks before paying off the mortgage, which seems excessive.
> > It's a whole half month they get to keep my $ and I can't do anything with
> > it.
>
> > Now I'm remembering that we had to wait a whole week when we deposited our
> > tax refund, and that was directly from the US Treasury. The US Treasury and
> > Scottrade are well known, trusted entities, so why in the world are they
> > making us wait so long for funds to be available? What is the purpose? I
> > thought they usually just scanned the checks and transferred the funds in a
> > day, like a wire transfer.
>
> > Are these normal wait times at banks for "large" deposits of around $11k?
> > I'm wondering why the cashier told me 5 days, but it turns out to be 15.
>
> > LONGER DELAYS MAY APPLY
>
> > In some cases, we will not make all of the funds that you deposit by check
> > available to you on the same business day as the day of your deposit.
> > Depending on the type of check that you deposit, funds may not be available
> > until the fifth business day after the day of your deposit. However, the
> > first $100.00 of your deposit will be available no later than the first
> > business day after the day of your deposit.
>
> > If we are not going to make all of the funds from your deposit available on
> > the same business day as the day of your deposit, we will notify you at the
> > time you make your deposit. We will also tell you when the funds will be
> > available. If your deposit is not made directly to one of our employees, or
> > if we decide to take this action after you have left the premises, we will
> > mail you the notice by the business day after the business day we receive
> > your deposit.
>
> > If you will need the funds from a deposit right away, you should ask us when
> > the funds will be available.
> > In addition, funds you deposit by check may be delayed for a longer period
> > under the following circumstances:
> > We believe a check you deposited will not be paid.
>
> > You deposit checks totaling more than $5,000.00 on any one day.
>
> > You redeposit a check that has been returned unpaid.
>
> > You have overdrawn your account repeatedly in the last six months.
>
> > There is an emergency, such as failure of communications or computer
> > equipment.
>
> I think you are getting hosed by your institution. I just deposited
> $41K in three checks and they cleared overnight. If they were foreign
> checks it could take over four days, but it doesn't sound like it is
> in your case.- Hide quoted text -

Agreed. In Canada, when I've deposited checks in person, if they are
major institutions like Insurance companies, gov't etc, they would
clear them immediately. Everything that goes through the ATM takes a
week.

James

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 7:09 am
From: "h"

"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea3c777f-05b2-45f8-9e16-90a96671e5fb@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 17, 7:38 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>> I just sold some stocks so that we could finally pay off our mortgage
>> completely. I got the checks from scottrade in the mail yesterday, and
>> went
>> to deposit them. I was told there would be a delay before the funds
>> would
>> be available. I figured it would be maybe 3 days. They told me it would
>> be
>> 5, so I figured max of 1 week including the weekend.
>>
>> When I got home, I noticed that the receipt said the funds would be
>> available OCTOBER 1, not the 5 days I had been told. So now I have to
>> wait
>> a full two weeks before paying off the mortgage, which seems excessive.
>> It's a whole half month they get to keep my $ and I can't do anything
>> with
>> it.
>>
>> Now I'm remembering that we had to wait a whole week when we deposited
>> our
>> tax refund, and that was directly from the US Treasury. The US Treasury
>> and
>> Scottrade are well known, trusted entities, so why in the world are they
>> making us wait so long for funds to be available? What is the purpose?
>> I
>> thought they usually just scanned the checks and transferred the funds in
>> a
>> day, like a wire transfer.
>>
>> Are these normal wait times at banks for "large" deposits of around
>> $11k?
>> I'm wondering why the cashier told me 5 days, but it turns out to be 15.
>>
>> LONGER DELAYS MAY APPLY
>>
>> In some cases, we will not make all of the funds that you deposit by
>> check
>> available to you on the same business day as the day of your deposit.
>> Depending on the type of check that you deposit, funds may not be
>> available
>> until the fifth business day after the day of your deposit. However, the
>> first $100.00 of your deposit will be available no later than the first
>> business day after the day of your deposit.
>>
>> If we are not going to make all of the funds from your deposit available
>> on
>> the same business day as the day of your deposit, we will notify you at
>> the
>> time you make your deposit. We will also tell you when the funds will be
>> available. If your deposit is not made directly to one of our employees,
>> or
>> if we decide to take this action after you have left the premises, we
>> will
>> mail you the notice by the business day after the business day we receive
>> your deposit.
>>
>> If you will need the funds from a deposit right away, you should ask us
>> when
>> the funds will be available.
>> In addition, funds you deposit by check may be delayed for a longer
>> period
>> under the following circumstances:
>> We believe a check you deposited will not be paid.
>>
>> You deposit checks totaling more than $5,000.00 on any one day.
>>
>> You redeposit a check that has been returned unpaid.
>>
>> You have overdrawn your account repeatedly in the last six months.
>>
>> There is an emergency, such as failure of communications or computer
>> equipment.
>
> I think you are getting hosed by your institution. I just deposited
> $41K in three checks and they cleared overnight. If they were foreign
> checks it could take over four days, but it doesn't sound like it is
> in your case.

Yup. 7 days is the max I ever had to wait for anything over $10K, and that
included a weekend. I believe that 5 business days is standard. I'd call and
complain. By any chance, does your bank also hold your mortgage?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:29 am
From: "Rod Speed"

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> I just sold some stocks so that we could finally pay off our mortgage completely.

Brilliant timing.

> I got the checks from scottrade in the mail yesterday, and went to deposit them. I was told there would be a delay
> before the funds would be available. I figured it would be maybe 3 days. They told me it would be 5, so I figured max
> of 1 week including the weekend.

> When I got home, I noticed that the receipt said the funds would be available OCTOBER 1, not the 5 days I had been
> told.

And it remains to be seen whether they will have gone bust by then.

> So now I have to wait a full two weeks before paying off the mortgage,

Or maybe for years.

> which seems excessive. It's a whole half month they get to keep my $ and I can't do anything with it.

> Now I'm remembering that we had to wait a whole week when we
> deposited our tax refund, and that was directly from the US Treasury.
> The US Treasury and Scottrade are well known, trusted entities,

Not quite on the same level with financial markets imploding rather spectacularly
and operations like Lehmans that have been around for 130 years and which
survived the great depression fine, going down the tubes in a single weekend.

> so why in the world are they making us wait so long for funds to be available? What is the purpose?

There might just be a tad of a problem with liquidity currently.

> I thought they usually just scanned the checks and transferred the funds in a day, like a wire transfer.

> Are these normal wait times at banks for "large" deposits of around $11k? I'm wondering why the cashier told me 5
> days, but it turns out to be 15.

Because the shit has hit the fan just a tad.

> LONGER DELAYS MAY APPLY

> In some cases, we will not make all of the funds that you deposit by
> check available to you on the same business day as the day of your
> deposit. Depending on the type of check that you deposit, funds may
> not be available until the fifth business day after the day of your
> deposit. However, the first $100.00 of your deposit will be available no later than the first business day after the
> day of your deposit.

> If we are not going to make all of the funds from your deposit
> available on the same business day as the day of your deposit, we
> will notify you at the time you make your deposit. We will also tell
> you when the funds will be available. If your deposit is not made
> directly to one of our employees, or if we decide to take this action
> after you have left the premises, we will mail you the notice by the
> business day after the business day we receive your deposit.

> If you will need the funds from a deposit right away, you should ask
> us when the funds will be available.
> In addition, funds you deposit by check may be delayed for a longer
> period under the following circumstances:

> We believe a check you deposited will not be paid.

> You deposit checks totaling more than $5,000.00 on any one day.

> You redeposit a check that has been returned unpaid.

> You have overdrawn your account repeatedly in the last six months.

> There is an emergency, such as failure of communications or computer equipment.

Or the financial markets are in meltdown.

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TOPIC: air jordan shoes paypal www.9988trade.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/616461c19d840541?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: martha
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc037dde74d13f6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 8:44 am
From: Derald

gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) wrote:

>Bear in mind that you're not seeing all the screaming and
>abuse that she's famous for on the set.
Oh, I know or, at least, can imagine. Sure would like to, though.
That's what I meant by "finely controlled". Too broad a generalization,
maybe, but "everyday" folks aren't attracted to on-camera careers, much
less do they succeed. I guess they just don't have those broken parts
that provoke one to prance, strut, and profile for approval. I'm
certain that behind that practiced cucumber-cool "Martha" facade must be
screaming shrew bitch who emerges when the red light goes out.
For many years, DW&I worked in motion picture production in a
craft that placed at least one of us on set just about every shooting
day; in later years we also worked as stage hands under the auspices of
a IATSE,etc. local. Believe me, I've seen some bizarro behavior; in my
memory Barbra Streisand, Burt Reynolds, David Copperfield, and a
comedian called "Gallagher" are real standouts.
What seems to me most intriguing about "Everyday Foods" is not so
much Martha's absence but the producers' definition of "everyday".

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TOPIC: All bankers are criminals and should be treated as such.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/929a49de1380dfd5?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 8:39 am
From: George Grapman

Paul Thomas, CPA wrote:
> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote
>> The people in charge of these banks which did this should be killed
>> and their property confiscated to pay off any debt.
>
>
> Now slow down sparkey. These lenders didn't go out, waylay some poor scmuck
> on the street and force them to take out a loan they couldn't support.
>
> It took at least two to create the problem. Lender and borrower. Greedy
> lenders. Greedy borrowers.
>
>
>
>
>> This is the only true way to handle these on-going bank frauds and
>> stock market swindles.
>
>
>
> And the folks who said they had income sufficient to repay the debt? I
> doubt that there is just one no-doc loan that contains a tad of expectations
> and puffery on the application filled out by the borrower. Nope, not just
> one for sure. In fact, I'd be surprised if there were one that didn't
> contain some erroneous claim by the borrower about their income or assets.
>
> Seems there is sufficient fraud on both sides to go around.
>
>
>
>
>
> You have to remember that home equity loans are a relatively new idea.
> Brought out by lenders to meet the demand of borrowers. Greedy borrowers
> took to them like a teen to a text message. Borrowers took out home equity
> loans to do stupid things like go on vacation. They used their house like
> an ATM, borrowing any and all equity they could, refinancing and rolling up
> the HELOC, and second mortgages into one big first mortgage with a cash out
> and starting all over again.
>
> So who caused the mess you're in? If not you - the borrower - then who?
> And why is it someone elses fault that they let you - the borrower - be
> greedy?
>
> Is it the cops fault that they let you speed? It's the fault of the road
> department for making the roads so smooth that you can go twice the speed
> limit? So now what, you shouldn't have to pay the speeding ticket?
>
>
>
>
>
>
And only the lenders a being bailed out.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:30 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Paul Thomas, CPA wrote:
>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote
>>> The people in charge of these banks which did this should be killed
>>> and their property confiscated to pay off any debt.
>>
>>
>> Now slow down sparkey. These lenders didn't go out, waylay some
>> poor scmuck on the street and force them to take out a loan they
>> couldn't support. It took at least two to create the problem. Lender and borrower. Greedy lenders. Greedy borrowers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> This is the only true way to handle these on-going bank frauds and
>>> stock market swindles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the folks who said they had income sufficient to repay the debt?
>> I doubt that there is just one no-doc loan that contains a tad of
>> expectations and puffery on the application filled out by the
>> borrower. Nope, not just one for sure. In fact, I'd be surprised
>> if there were one that didn't contain some erroneous claim by the
>> borrower about their income or assets. Seems there is sufficient fraud on both sides to go around.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You have to remember that home equity loans are a relatively new
>> idea. Brought out by lenders to meet the demand of borrowers. Greedy borrowers took to them like a teen to a text
>> message. Borrowers took out home equity loans to do stupid things like go on
>> vacation. They used their house like an ATM, borrowing any and all
>> equity they could, refinancing and rolling up the HELOC, and second
>> mortgages into one big first mortgage with a cash out and starting
>> all over again. So who caused the mess you're in? If not you - the borrower - then
>> who? And why is it someone elses fault that they let you - the
>> borrower - be greedy?
>>
>> Is it the cops fault that they let you speed? It's the fault of the
>> road department for making the roads so smooth that you can go twice
>> the speed limit? So now what, you shouldn't have to pay the
>> speeding ticket?

> And only the lenders a being bailed out.

Thats a lie.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:14 am
From: "P. Maffia"

Sorry, false statement. Congress has already passed and the President has
signed a bill that bails out a substantial number (approx. 400,000) of
persons liable to lose their homes to foreclosure. The same bill provides a
First-time home buyers repayable credit; an additional standard deduction
for property taxes (That is a even if they do not have enough deductions to
use Schedule A, they can add $500 to their standard deduction for Property
taxes) - this deduction is phased out above certain specified incomes; the
low income housing credit was expanded; interest on certain private activity
bonds for specified housing projects is not treated as tax preference items
for AMT purposes.

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:Lu9Ak.389$eb4.188@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Paul Thomas, CPA wrote:
>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote
>>> The people in charge of these banks which did this should be killed
>>> and their property confiscated to pay off any debt.
>>
>>
>> Now slow down sparkey. These lenders didn't go out, waylay some poor
>> scmuck on the street and force them to take out a loan they couldn't
>> support.
>>
>> It took at least two to create the problem. Lender and borrower. Greedy
>> lenders. Greedy borrowers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> This is the only true way to handle these on-going bank frauds and
>>> stock market swindles.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the folks who said they had income sufficient to repay the debt? I
>> doubt that there is just one no-doc loan that contains a tad of
>> expectations and puffery on the application filled out by the borrower.
>> Nope, not just one for sure. In fact, I'd be surprised if there were one
>> that didn't contain some erroneous claim by the borrower about their
>> income or assets.
>>
>> Seems there is sufficient fraud on both sides to go around.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You have to remember that home equity loans are a relatively new idea.
>> Brought out by lenders to meet the demand of borrowers. Greedy borrowers
>> took to them like a teen to a text message. Borrowers took out home
>> equity loans to do stupid things like go on vacation. They used their
>> house like an ATM, borrowing any and all equity they could, refinancing
>> and rolling up the HELOC, and second mortgages into one big first
>> mortgage with a cash out and starting all over again.
>>
>> So who caused the mess you're in? If not you - the borrower - then who?
>> And why is it someone elses fault that they let you - the borrower - be
>> greedy?
>>
>> Is it the cops fault that they let you speed? It's the fault of the road
>> department for making the roads so smooth that you can go twice the speed
>> limit? So now what, you shouldn't have to pay the speeding ticket?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> And only the lenders a being bailed out.

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0432931757fd127?hl=en
==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Check reordering
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e222d72ae91bb4fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 8:46 am
From: George Grapman

After 4 years I needed to replenish the initial supply of checks
that my credit union gave me when I opened my account.

I called the number on the reorder form and when the quoted price
seemed high I asked for a breakdown and was told it included things I
did not want such as two day delivery and a leather check book. Getting
longer delivery and vinyl saved about $15.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I am losing my butt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b88d0c3914417a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:05 am
From: Carl Beattie

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability not@home.org
(Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:

>Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
>has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
>
>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.

Go tell your crusaders first, they made up the lie.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:34 am
From: not@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:05:35 -0700, Carl Beattie <sueb@incus.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability not@home.org
>(Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:
>
>>Historians tell us that since the inception of homo sapiens, the world
>>has been at peace for something like 16 minutes.
>>
>>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
>
>
>Go tell your crusaders first, they made up the lie.

You've been reading al jazeera.

At any rate, the crusaders are all dead now.

But your heroes are still terrorizing.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:39 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Chief Thracian <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote
> not@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote

>>>> Fine? What about the incalculable suffering and deaths?

>> Yeah, that seems to accompany wars.

> Wars that are not necessary.

Yes, you are always welcome to hand out flowers to invaders, and die.

>> Well, we could have been appeasement apostles and perhaps you'd
>> be living under Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or Islamic Sharia law.

> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if
> we didn't have so much business selling Nazis war material.

The US was completely irrelevant to WW2 until Pearl Harbour, you ignorant clown.

> But WWII was planned by our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.

Is that right ? How odd that the rich fella in charge couldnt even go to war until after Pearl Harbour.

Corse he paid those unspeakable Japs to do Pearl Harbour too, eh ?

And the Philippines eh ?

>> Do you think you'd be able to run your mouth under them, as freely as you do now?

> Well, since we helped to creat that war, I'd say our leaders already WERE Nazis,,,,

You wouldnt know what a real Nazi was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.

> and our supposed freedoms were simply illusions all along.

So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have your executed eh ?

Great.

> Now, EVERYONE is going to discover this neat little factoid. We do NOT
> have freedom of speech in Amerika...only a pale facsimile to delude us.

So now that you have spilled the beans on the rich, they'll have your executed eh ?

Great.

>> Let us do away with capitalism, comrade.

> No, we can have a different FORM of capitalism, is all. One that
> respects and HONORS democracy. What we have now is terrorist
> capitalism, a form of fascism. If you think compassionate programs
> like universal health care is socialism or communism, you are brainwashed.

>> Kill the corporations, along with the goods, services, and jobs they provide.

> Nope. Just close all the tax loopholes, so we can easily
> afford living wages, health care, housing for the poor, etc.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

> Corporation profits are on the backs of workers, who made them rich. You say
> we don't deserve a healthy share of these profits? How unAmerikan of you!

>> You grow the potatoes; I'll grow the cabbage, and we'll share.

> That is soon where most of us will be, under the evil
> of our present capitalists, who are raping our country.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

> They are antiAmerikan, and you are one of their brainwashed puppets.

Bet that will see him curl up and die for sure, child.

>> And being good little communists, we'll share with those who didn't grow anything.

> Oh, good for you. Call true patriots communists. Aren't you the good little Benedict Arnold!

Bet that will see him curl up and die for sure, child.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:39 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Carl Beattie <sueb@incus.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:39:22 GMT, in alt.social-security-disability
> chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian) wrote:
>
>>
>> WWII is just ONE war. Which COULD have been averted if we didn't have
>> so much business selling Nazis war material. But WWII was planned by
>> our own gov't, as a way for the elite to get even richer.
>>
>
>
> Just like the revolutionary war was planned by the rich to make the
> rich richer, the common person gained nothing by breaking from
> England. And when they said all "men" are created equal they really
> did mean men but they only meant themselves as in the ones who
> drafted it. Only men who owned property could vote and only white
> men could own property.

That last is a pig ignorant lie.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:48 am
From: Gerald Abrahamson

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, not@home.org (Barack's
Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:

>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.

You mean you don't have a direct line to God/GWB/McCain to
advise them of this Christian "fact"? Why would they cut you
out? Hmmm, they must have a reason....

>You're running your mouth pretty good.

Yours is running non-stop. But your babbling is nonsense.

>Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
>Korea, or Vietnam.

You like being told what to believe--then you don't have to
think. That is exactly what they do in those countries. Just
like you believe GWB, Rove, Cheney, McCain, Palin, etc. So,
why are you in the US? You lack the intellectual capability
of making informed choices. Proof of my claim is made very
simply. Have you found those WMDs in Iraq yet? If not, why
not? Or hasn't Mattel come out with the "Barbie I.E.D.
Finder and Defuser" yet?

>Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
>a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
>Sharia law.
>
>Or if you'd prefer a simple lifestyle, sub-Saharan Africa beckons.
>The folks are real down-to-earth there.

"Not at home" accurately describes your mental state. It
also describes your physical location. I would dispute the
.org category though. More along the lines of .DISorg....
Then again, .nothought would be most appropriate.

You would fit right into the above locations as your
permanent residence.

> It seems that they are starting to travel to the US for treatment.

Actually, the UK and other health services have been sending
some of their patients to Asia for treatment. The US is
doing the same. The insurance companies LOVE it--as do the
patients going overseas for treatment. First-class medical
treatment (by US-trained doctors) at a relatively low price.
Expect foreign medical care to become mandatory over the
years in order to protect the profit margins of the
insurance companies you so love.

>And in Canuckistan, ladies are crossing the border to have their babies
>delivered.

Because they are having a "baby boom" in Canada, their
delivery rooms are filled beyond capacity. Thus, their
over-capacity is sent to the US. It won't last.

>So if universal health care is in our future, I hope that
>it is well thought out. All aspects of it.

ROFLMAO !!

Canadians held a vote about who was the most famous/
respected Canadian. It was the person who created the
Canadian SP/UHC medical healthcare system--or, as it is
called: Medicare for all.

And don't forget your passport--a requirement to get your
medical treatment overseas paid by a US insurance company.

So, refute the following article:

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/76032/10_myths_about_canadian_health_care,_busted/

>Lovely platitudes.
>
>Straight off the teleprompter.
>
>Now, fill us in on the nuts-and-bolts details to accomplish what you
>say.

We have all seen your platitudes roll off the McCain tele-
prompter--none of which contain all the facts.

>And when you have formulated your socioeconomic and tax strategies, be
>sure to pass a copy to Barry Obama.

McCain has lived his entire life under SP/UHC--which you
have known all along. So, tell us (again) how and why he
opposes it since it was so great for him. Or doesn't he want
all Americans to have the good quality healthcare he
received? How UN-American of McCain--NOT the stuff of which
heroes are made.

All Republican't Neocan'ts (you, McCain, Palin, GWB, OR
Cheney) *still* haven't told us how Bush/McCain is going to
pay off the multi-trillion-dollar debts they have run up.
Nor have you told us how they are going to "save" the US
economy from more Bushonomics/Reaganomics/McCainonomics.
Knocking off the #3, #4, AND #5 major banks in the US isn't
enough. They also got the #1 insurance company (AIG). Now
the govt owns 79.9% of AIG. Maybe you need to get a real
job--or do you need to be sent to Iraq to "fight the war
over there"? GWB will take almost anyone at this point.

>Now don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.

You should not be butting doors.... Your ability to think
will be reduced below zero....

>Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......

Dear Commie....

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:19 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:41:14 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Anyone with a clue puts it in a fire proof safe, fuckwit.

You said cash under the bed, Changing your tune now, are you?

You're not particularly intelligent...that fact virtually screams at
anyone who reads your silly rants.

You're obviously a very disturbed and angry little loser. Typical ugly
Amerikan. You should leave.

--
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http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:21 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:49:33 -0700, Carl Beattie <sueb@incus.com>
wrote:

>Just like the revolutionary war was planned by the rich to make the rich richer,
>the common person gained nothing by breaking from England. And when they said
>all "men" are created equal they really did mean men but they only meant
>themselves as in the ones who drafted it. Only men who owned property could
>vote and only white men could own property.

You're a breath of fresh air amid all the ignorant foul goons farting
their lies in every direction.

--
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http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:22 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:39:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>That last is a pig ignorant lie.

Oh, you really put him in HIS place now, didn't you?

You couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag.

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:23 am
From: not@home.org (Barack's Bomber, Bill Ayres)

Queen Nancy's going to investigate the

Actually, the Clintonistas laid the seeds for the current financial
mess. "Let 'em all have mortgages." And the Clintonistas like
Gorelick made out like bandits. Gubmint intervention. Further, the
idjits who ran Freddie and Fannie are now Barry's advisors.

As for NHS, if you ever need a leg amputated, make sure you have a
note tied to your good leg with directions: "Remove other leg."

And then:

The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.

BY TAWFIK HAMID
Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published
a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went
Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a
vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics
protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things
have been, or could be, right.

But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic
world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang
from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of
Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other
daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the
ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic
establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily,
the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come,
actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root
causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation
of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite
different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya,
a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know
firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can
transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without
confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be
impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets"
of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam,
a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic
teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows
apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them,
seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies
declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the
Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the
Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough
that there is something fundamentally wrong.

The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack
of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that
clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism,
more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not
provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel
proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20
years I have been developing and working to establish a
theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western
intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have
become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among
Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity.
They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism
such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of
Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when
Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if
the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder
why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances
refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of
terror.

Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that
Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This
analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder
of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last
few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or
the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything
to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and
opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural
relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live
under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot
vote, drive cars and dress as they please.

The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to
self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans
demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate
against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them.
Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish
citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But
once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror
attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message
to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the
problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the
Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few
violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish
magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The
apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners.
It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal
identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to
morally support America's enemies.

Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an
antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and
practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that
Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take
for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we
experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.

Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been
fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim
organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce
violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims
who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be
considered "moderates."

All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When
Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually
endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of
suppressing their voices.
Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of
relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the
reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue
to face us.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:48:33 -0500, Gerald Abrahamson
<jerryab@visi.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:53:26 GMT, not@home.org (Barack's
>Bomber, Bill Ayres) wrote:
>
>>Regarding the present, tell your whine to Akmed and those who are on a
>>global mission to convert, enslave, or kill all infidels.
>
>You mean you don't have a direct line to God/GWB/McCain to
>advise them of this Christian "fact"? Why would they cut you
>out? Hmmm, they must have a reason....

>>You're running your mouth pretty good.
>
>Yours is running non-stop. But your babbling is nonsense.
>
>>Perhaps you'd find life more enjoyable in a utopia like Cuba, North
>>Korea, or Vietnam.
>
>You like being told what to believe--then you don't have to
>think. That is exactly what they do in those countries. Just
>like you believe GWB, Rove, Cheney, McCain, Palin, etc. So,
>why are you in the US? You lack the intellectual capability
>of making informed choices. Proof of my claim is made very
>simply. Have you found those WMDs in Iraq yet? If not, why
>not? Or hasn't Mattel come out with the "Barbie I.E.D.
>Finder and Defuser" yet?
>
>>Perhaps you'd savor life in one of the 57 Muslim countries. If you're
>>a female, I'm sure you'd enjoy practicing the quaint traditions of
>>Sharia law.
>>
>>Or if you'd prefer a simple lifestyle, sub-Saharan Africa beckons.
>>The folks are real down-to-earth there.
>
>"Not at home" accurately describes your mental state. It
>also describes your physical location. I would dispute the
>.org category though. More along the lines of .DISorg....
>Then again, .nothought would be most appropriate.
>
>You would fit right into the above locations as your
>permanent residence.
>
>> It seems that they are starting to travel to the US for treatment.
>
>Actually, the UK and other health services have been sending
>some of their patients to Asia for treatment. The US is
>doing the same. The insurance companies LOVE it--as do the
>patients going overseas for treatment. First-class medical
>treatment (by US-trained doctors) at a relatively low price.
>Expect foreign medical care to become mandatory over the
>years in order to protect the profit margins of the
>insurance companies you so love.
>
>>And in Canuckistan, ladies are crossing the border to have their babies
>>delivered.
>
>Because they are having a "baby boom" in Canada, their
>delivery rooms are filled beyond capacity. Thus, their
>over-capacity is sent to the US. It won't last.
>
>>So if universal health care is in our future, I hope that
>>it is well thought out. All aspects of it.
>
>ROFLMAO !!
>
>Canadians held a vote about who was the most famous/
>respected Canadian. It was the person who created the
>Canadian SP/UHC medical healthcare system--or, as it is
>called: Medicare for all.
>
>And don't forget your passport--a requirement to get your
>medical treatment overseas paid by a US insurance company.
>
>So, refute the following article:
>
>http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/76032/10_myths_about_canadian_health_care,_busted/
>
>>Lovely platitudes.
>>
>>Straight off the teleprompter.
>>
>>Now, fill us in on the nuts-and-bolts details to accomplish what you
>>say.
>
>We have all seen your platitudes roll off the McCain tele-
>prompter--none of which contain all the facts.
>
>>And when you have formulated your socioeconomic and tax strategies, be
>>sure to pass a copy to Barry Obama.
>
>McCain has lived his entire life under SP/UHC--which you
>have known all along. So, tell us (again) how and why he
>opposes it since it was so great for him. Or doesn't he want
>all Americans to have the good quality healthcare he
>received? How UN-American of McCain--NOT the stuff of which
>heroes are made.
>
>All Republican't Neocan'ts (you, McCain, Palin, GWB, OR
>Cheney) *still* haven't told us how Bush/McCain is going to
>pay off the multi-trillion-dollar debts they have run up.
>Nor have you told us how they are going to "save" the US
>economy from more Bushonomics/Reaganomics/McCainonomics.
>Knocking off the #3, #4, AND #5 major banks in the US isn't
>enough. They also got the #1 insurance company (AIG). Now
>the govt owns 79.9% of AIG. Maybe you need to get a real
>job--or do you need to be sent to Iraq to "fight the war
>over there"? GWB will take almost anyone at this point.
>
>>Now don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.
>
>You should not be butting doors.... Your ability to think
>will be reduced below zero....
>
>>Hey, if it talks like a commie, and smells like a commie ......
>
>Dear Commie....

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:29 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:18:06 -0700, "John Que Public"
<jquepub@nullport.ca> wrote:

>Hell yes! Jack the taxes through the roof on those evil corporations.
>Of course they will simply pass on the corporate taxes by raising the
>prices of the products they manufacture or sell and the consumer will
>pay the taxes.

That's one of the loopholes that needs to be closed. Taxes based on
profits, not expenses. Limit the profits to something reasonable,
which will also limit how much customers will be charged.

>FYI: All taxes are paid by the little guys so any tax increase to any
>group falls on the backs of consumers.

Wrong....the main problem is the warped disttribution of wealth.
Workers make corporations rich...yet very liftle of the resulting
assets are shared with workers. Brainwash employees to think that is a
communistic approach, and you have them fighting against their own
well being...against living wages and universal health care.

>The auto industry is a prime example of tax and government program
>cost increase being passed on to the consumer. In 1974 a new ford 1/2
>ton van cost around $4000.00

I don't care WHAT rationale you use to justify criminal capitalism,
'cause we already have successful economies in the rest of the
advanced nations that do exactly as I've suggested needs be done here.

>When government involves itself in the taxation, production or
>operation of any business the consumer is the one that pays the added
>cost.

And by the same token, government can be altered to protect its
citizens from stealth capitalism that destroys communities, pushes
people onto the streets, denies decent health care, and steals our
hopes for a better world. Government is anything the people want it to
be.

--
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http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin splurgin' on $2,500 silk jackets and other high fashion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/968a95c4d776c842?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:45 am
From: "Val N. Teenow"

Where does a "hockey mom" get the money for $2,500 jackets?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172008/gossip/pagesix/sarah_has_secret_style_team_129403.htm

SARAH HAS SECRET STYLE TEAM

September 17, 2008 -- HOCKEY mom Sarah Palin not only wore lipstick to the
Republican National Convention, the vice-presidential candidate wore a
shantung silk Valentino jacket worth $2,500.

PHOTOS: A Look at Palin's Style

Insiders tell Page Six Palin has a secretive circle of stylists who dress
her for events. For her big speech in St. Paul, where she accepted the
GOP's vice-presidential nod, this fashion-conscious team encouraged the
Alaska governor to splurge on a $2,500 jacket from Saks Fifth Avenue
designed by Valentino Garavani.

Palin, shunning the pantsuits favored by Hillary Clinton, wore the top
during her first big speech, where she told McCain's delegates: "I was just
your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make
my kids' public education better."

But she's springing for designer labels. One source familiar with Palin's
primping posse told us, "They do not want the American public to know that
Palin is using stylists or that she is paying for expensive clothes this
early on in the campaign."

We spoke to someone on Palin's styling team, who told us, "I did a little
bit of personal styling, but I can't discuss anything I've done with Sarah
Palin. I'm not sure which designs she wore . . . anything related to
working with her is confidential."

Presidential nominee John McCain's wife, Cindy, recently took some heat
after Vanity Fair itemized the cost of her wardrobe during her RNC speech
with Laura Bush to a whopping $300,000 worth of designer wear and diamonds.

A representative for Valentino confirmed Palin wore one of his designs
during her convention speech, but said she did not buy it from a Valentino
store. Palin's reps had no comment.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:01 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:32:43 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:

>Yet you FAILED to CITE any...

Do your own googling, fool. I waste as little of my time as possible,
on bigoted hetero goons.

>I see. They hide yet you magically know they exist?

There is such a thing as anonymous surveys.

>Bwahahahahhahaha!!!

Raucous, explosive laugh = gross insecurity. Macho posturing.

>Yes, they NEVER rebelled. They marched.

You gotta be kidding. Watts riots? Long hot summer (1967)? Etc.

>I stomped and boot-beat a few fags but I've never shot one. I bet
>that'll be fun!

No doubt in your gestapo uniform!

>Where is that "rude awakening...?"

When you least expect it. You are a subliterate goon, typical ugly
Amerikan. No wonder this country sucks so bad.

--
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:04 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:34:18 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:

>Another shit-eating foreigner EXPOSED:
>
>From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
>Path: sp6iad.superfeed.net!
>in1.nntp.be!
>eweka.nl!
>hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!
>eweka.nl = Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands

As I already declared your low intelligence, I guess I need to spell
this out too:

I use a news service out of the Netherlands. You do realize you can
live most anywhere in the world, and use an Internet service from
another country, don't you? Can you say "cyberspace"?

And since when do you call an allied nation a shit eater? You got no
common sense, huh. No surprise here...you just a wicked old fart who's
got nothing better to do with his time (being unemployable) than
insult, hate, and broadcast lies and perversion.

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get 50 Free MP3 from eMusic.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e57585cc050f27e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:16 am
From: jack

Hey Guys,
I found this site when I was searching for free MP3 songs. eMusic is
giving away 50 free songs as…
http://www.wowmycash.com/coupons_comment/eMusic.com/100335
Let me know if you guys like it.
Thanks,
Jack
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: In-house visit by a "Rainbow vacuum" salesperson
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8cbbcbc71d84da35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:30 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Lew Hartswick wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > BTW Rex-Aire built a higher suction version, but it was recalled after
> > a few people succeeded in pulling their carpet loose from the tack
> > strips.
>
> That sounds like just what is needed to suck the oily chips out
> of the T slots of a mill. :-)

As long as they are smaller than a bowling ball. They could pick up a
bowling ball, but it wouldn't go down the hose. Put a few drops of
detergent in the water, and it will trap oily dust. A place was using
one to clean up drops of mercury where they made thermometers fro
several years. When the EPA found out they had to spend $30,000 on a
replacement system hat didn't work as well.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

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