Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Estate sales aren't frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6b2d8fe95a5dd9a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 7:26 pm
From: FrouClou

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in

> Not talking about "yard sales". I'm talking about
> professional "estate sales" where the grieving family hires a
> 3rd party to liquidate the assets of the recently deceased.
> These "estate agents" also seem to bring along leftovers
> they've acquired from other sales and the prices are
> outrageous. Of course there's those "professional" sellers
> who hunt down deals at other garage sales, buy cheap and then
> run their own sale, marking up the price considerably. They
> might also be annoying enough to title it an "estate sale"
> even though no one died. So in terms of pricing hierachy it
> seems to be from least to most: yard sales, flea markets,
> thrift stores, estate sales. But I do agree with you that the
> best "yard sales" are in neighborhoods where the people just
> want to clear out the garage and aren't that worried about
> what they paid for the strawberry iMac they bought 5 years
> ago.

You don't have to be dead to have an estate sale.

You just need an estate to have a sale. :-)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:49 am
From: Al Bundy

Seerialmom wrote:
> Unless they're run by the family themselves and just want to get rid
> of everything. I'm amazed at the ridiculous prices charged by these
> professional "Estate" sales people. $20 for a basic Pyrex nesting
> bowl I can buy at a thrift store for $3 or a normal yard sale for 50
> cents? I went to a couple of these estate sales over the weekend and
> the prices are apalling. If I wasn't on the hunt for an old school
> console stereo (which I plan to repurpose as a TV stand/entertainment
> center, I don't want some cheap particle board set up from Ikea), I
> wouldn't have even bothered stopping.

Through the years I have learned to avoid all garage sale where the
sign says Estate Sale, antiques, or crafts. The words "HUGE" and
"MULTI-FAMILY" often mean they don't have much to sell either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: vacuum cleaner new
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e8cc394cc50a344?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 8:51 pm
From: "Art"

"Archon" <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6niNk.95011$Dw1.5059@fe01.news.easynews.com...
> max wrote:
>> In article <49058ae0$0$502$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
>> andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <af7Nk.51798$XT1.33709@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
>>> E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> john d hamilton wrote:
>>>>> This photo shows the black very thin plastic type filter that sits
>>>>> facing the fan on a household Hitachi CV-SF8 vacuum cleaner.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11rxdm0&s=4
>>>>>
>>>>> Immediately behind this sits a plastic frame with a nylon fine mesh
>>>>> filter and sitting in this frame is a black high density sponge
>>>>> filter. (doing a search on this sponge filter, it's called a
>>>>> Mesh-Urethane filter).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6gv5tl&s=4
>>>>>
>>>>> This Mesh-Urethane filter is on the *right* side of this photo, the
>>>>> black one on the left is the reverse of the very thin plastic type
>>>>> filter referred to above.
>>>>>
>>>>> This Mesh-Urethane filter really restricts the air flow. Its a bit
>>>>> better when I wash it out under the tap with soap and water but soon
>>>>> seems to clog up again. I find it works quite well if I relace it
>>>>> entirely with a piece of soft tissue toilet paper, and keep changing
>>>>> the paper and all the debris that builds up behind it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now the question here is what exactly is this very thin plastic type
>>>>> filter (if indeed it is actually a filter) doing? It's the one on the
>>>>> left in the second photo. It seems to have microscopic slits in its
>>>>> surface, but when I wash it, it wont pass water through it, which
>>>>> surely it would if its some kind of filter? It's a thin flexible
>>>>> piece of plastic sheet, and seems really strong. Almost like a sheet
>>>>> of carbon fibre.
>>>> The first stage is supposed to get rid of almost all the dust by
>>>> centrifugal force. If the air then clogs a filter frequently, I wonder
>>>> if something is wrong with the first stage.
>>> If you want a cyclone cleaner that works, you're really going
>>> to struggle with anything other that a Dyson. Dyson have a stack
>>> of patents relating to designing cyclones small enough to be part
>>> of a vacuum cleaner which actually work, that's it's pretty
>>> impossible for other manufacturers to come close. His original
>>> dual cyclone patent expired which is why you now see other
>>> manufacturers doing those, but they're stuck with following all
>>> his advances 25 years behind.
>>
>> horse shit. utter horseshit. Dyson's vacuums are devoid of any genuine
>> innovation whatsoever. His patents are as meritous as AOL's attempt to
>> patent the smiley face emoticon. He adapted the cyclone filter to a
>> carpet sucker. whoopie. wow!!! His innovation has a great more to do
>> with the advances made in material science making available to him the
>> possibility of doing something different. . A Dyson-style vacuum made in
>> 1950 would have been beyond the means of 75% of consumers. His brushless
>> air jet models are polycarbonate frauds. People should AVOID Dyson
>> vacuums unless they like pissing their money away. They work no better
>> than any other cyclone vacuum available at Walmart or Target. No
>> difference. No Advances. Simple 19th century soot collection.
>>
>> They are, however, have the unique benefit of being possessed of superb
>> design, and are, as such works of functional art worthy of buying simply
>> for that reason. But a frugal person would avoid Dysons as if it were a
>> plague carrier. We won't mention the abominable ergonomics of some of
>> his designs, as they are self-evident and glaring. Dyson = Hype.
>>
>> Save money-- buy a Hoover or a Bissel or a Snorch.
>>
>> .max
>>
> Horseshit yerself,
>
> If it wasn't for Dyson we would still be getting ripped off for hundreds
> of dollars of bags and filters a year.....

Hundreds of dollars on bags per year? Do you vacuum 24 hours a day?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:02 pm
From: "Art"

"Bored Borg" <boredborg@gasboardsmorgasbord.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C52C06E900162272F0182648@news.astraweb.com...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:52:03 +0000, Archon wrote
> (in article <6dnNk.177673$KY3.158041@fe02.news.easynews.com>):
>
>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>
> <ausgesnipt>
>>> Some UK kettles have 3kW elements, while some US kettles have 1.75kW
>>> elements. So it takes 45 seconds to boil a cup of water in the US and
>>> 26 seconds in the UK.
>>>
>>> Standard US outlets are for 15 amps. Most homes use 20-amp wiring. If
>>> enough Americans were impatient, there would be 20-amp kettles, which
>>> could heat the water in 33 seconds.
>>>
>>> It appears that the most common size of Dyson vacuum in the UK is 1400
>>> W. Some US vacuums use roughly that much. If US vacuums really aren't
>>> as good, the problem must be something else.
>> HSN were advertising some lousy vacuum based on its 1400W or wattever
>> (pun) power, the power it consumes probably totally unrelated to the
>> work done.
>
> A friend o'mine bought a super-dooper HD Whirlpool washing machine to
> handle
> the load from her incontinent, disabled kid. A long time researching and
> taking sales advice.
> The machine was HUGE, seemed built like a tank. It was heavy and gawdawful
> expensive and could take a king-size heavy-tog quilt with room to add,
> probably, a sofa and the family dog. It had great, industrial type styling
> and we had a celebration party 'cos we were all so impressed. (yes,
> really.
> loads of people watching a washing machine with glasses of bubbly... sad
> but
> true.) Everyone thought it was a 20yr investment.
>
> The trouble was that NOTHING came out clean. The KS quilt, clothes,
> underwear, ordinary shirts... everything. Had an engineer out to check it.
> It
> was up to spec. No faults anywhere - except in the design for performance.
> She tried every recommended combination of detergent, heat, agitation,
> voodoo
> incantations, payload size... No matter what, everything was dirty and
> covered with felt-ish fluff. The manual even referred to this as a known
> "feature" of this type of machine and called it something like "nubbing"
> or
> "bobbling" or whatever, saying it may be an initial problem with some
> fabrics
> and could be cut down by using their speciall no-nubbiing, anti-bobbling
> zero-beading chaff-stopping detergent. Very expensive special detergent,
> that
> is. The very expensive special detergent was duly bought, and used. No
> improvement in the bobble-chaffing nub beading at all, and the clothes
> were
> still stained, dirty.. and covered in all this raised pile stuff.
>
> The machine was great at accelerating wear in its payload but lousy at
> cleaning.
>
> She got her money back as the machine was argued not to be of merchantable
> quality - i.e. it didn't (couldn't) perform its intended task of being a
> washing machine.
> This, apparently was America's Finest - at least as far as those of us in
> the
> export slipstream are aware.
>
> This begs all sorts of questions..
>
> er.. Do you guys in the USA who have carpet cleaners that don't clean, and
> washing machines that don't either... er, <ahem>... well. what I mean
> is....
> I hope that showers work O.K. at least.. :-)
>
> Maybe the domestic machines are different.
>
> Personally, I love USA engineering. I prefer over-robust materials - cast
> iron, milled alluminum (!) bolted together with proper fasteners - to the
> oriental approach, which is to work to incredibly fine tolerances but to
> specify very thin cheese as the construction material. I love the apparent
> non-obsolescence of the USA paradigm which implies that in a post
> apocalyptic
> world we can all get by, fixing stuff with a hammer and baling wire,
> making
> spares as needed with the help of the local blacksnith. It's just got a
> better feeling that knowing you'll need a dedicated computer with
> constanly
> updated firmware to make the most basic adjustments to your hedgetrimmer,
> toaster, motorcycle, router and yes indeed, _washing machine_... It's the
> sort of thing that drives us to working with wood, isn't it?
>
> The rub comes when the tank-like build quality is not matched by
> _functional_
> quality, either through crap design (Whirlpool washing machines, so it
> seems), lousy tolerances in manufacturing (AMC Harley Davidson) or
> anally-retentive tolerance specifications (M16 carbines ??)
>
> When USA conservative engineering is combined with marketing honesty, you
> guys turn out gear that rocks. It doesn't happen all the time, however,
> and
> that needs a little consumer honesty to point out. Just 'cos something is
> marked "Made in the USA" doesn't mean it's going to trump the competition,
> regardless. Often it does, but there's no sense in getting all fierce and
> patriotic to try and flog a dead horse - at any price.When it works, it
> works. SnapOn tools, etc.. The process is not automatic, though. Badging a
> thing "American" does not confer quality. Neither does "Made in Japan." It
> can often be an indicator that something has a high probability of being
> superior, but it's only a probability marker. The quality comes from
> something else, but hey, it feels good to support the home team, and
> there's
> nothing wrong with that - just let's not get confused about the issues.
>
>

If the super duper HD Whirlpool machine was a front loader, it was probably
manufactured in Germany, not the U.S. Kind of kills your whole argument.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:06 pm
From: "Art"

"Archon" <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LiuNk.162681$9s3.159328@fe07.news.easynews.com...
> Bored Borg wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:52:03 +0000, Archon wrote
>> (in article <6dnNk.177673$KY3.158041@fe02.news.easynews.com>):
>>
>>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>
>> <ausgesnipt>
>>>> Some UK kettles have 3kW elements, while some US kettles have 1.75kW
>>>> elements. So it takes 45 seconds to boil a cup of water in the US and
>>>> 26 seconds in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Standard US outlets are for 15 amps. Most homes use 20-amp wiring. If
>>>> enough Americans were impatient, there would be 20-amp kettles, which
>>>> could heat the water in 33 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> It appears that the most common size of Dyson vacuum in the UK is 1400
>>>> W. Some US vacuums use roughly that much. If US vacuums really aren't
>>>> as good, the problem must be something else.
>>> HSN were advertising some lousy vacuum based on its 1400W or wattever
>>> (pun) power, the power it consumes probably totally unrelated to the
>>> work done.
>>
>> A friend o'mine bought a super-dooper HD Whirlpool washing machine to
>> handle the load from her incontinent, disabled kid. A long time
>> researching and taking sales advice.
>> The machine was HUGE, seemed built like a tank. It was heavy and
>> gawdawful expensive and could take a king-size heavy-tog quilt with room
>> to add, probably, a sofa and the family dog. It had great, industrial
>> type styling and we had a celebration party 'cos we were all so
>> impressed. (yes, really. loads of people watching a washing machine with
>> glasses of bubbly... sad but true.) Everyone thought it was a 20yr
>> investment.
>>
>> The trouble was that NOTHING came out clean. The KS quilt, clothes,
>> underwear, ordinary shirts... everything. Had an engineer out to check
>> it. It was up to spec. No faults anywhere - except in the design for
>> performance. She tried every recommended combination of detergent, heat,
>> agitation, voodoo incantations, payload size... No matter what,
>> everything was dirty and covered with felt-ish fluff. The manual even
>> referred to this as a known "feature" of this type of machine and called
>> it something like "nubbing" or "bobbling" or whatever, saying it may be
>> an initial problem with some fabrics and could be cut down by using their
>> speciall no-nubbiing, anti-bobbling zero-beading chaff-stopping
>> detergent. Very expensive special detergent, that is. The very expensive
>> special detergent was duly bought, and used. No improvement in the
>> bobble-chaffing nub beading at all, and the clothes were still stained,
>> dirty.. and covered in all this raised pile stuff.
>>
>> The machine was great at accelerating wear in its payload but lousy at
>> cleaning. She got her money back as the machine was argued not to be of
>> merchantable quality - i.e. it didn't (couldn't) perform its intended
>> task of being a washing machine.
>> This, apparently was America's Finest - at least as far as those of us in
>> the export slipstream are aware.
>>
>> This begs all sorts of questions..
>>
>> er.. Do you guys in the USA who have carpet cleaners that don't clean,
>> and washing machines that don't either... er, <ahem>... well. what I mean
>> is.... I hope that showers work O.K. at least.. :-)
>>
>> Maybe the domestic machines are different.
>>
>> Personally, I love USA engineering. I prefer over-robust materials - cast
>> iron, milled alluminum (!) bolted together with proper fasteners - to the
>> oriental approach, which is to work to incredibly fine tolerances but to
>> specify very thin cheese as the construction material. I love the
>> apparent non-obsolescence of the USA paradigm which implies that in a
>> post apocalyptic world we can all get by, fixing stuff with a hammer and
>> baling wire, making spares as needed with the help of the local
>> blacksnith. It's just got a better feeling that knowing you'll need a
>> dedicated computer with constanly updated firmware to make the most basic
>> adjustments to your hedgetrimmer, toaster, motorcycle, router and yes
>> indeed, _washing machine_... It's the sort of thing that drives us to
>> working with wood, isn't it?
>>
>> The rub comes when the tank-like build quality is not matched by
>> _functional_ quality, either through crap design (Whirlpool washing
>> machines, so it seems), lousy tolerances in manufacturing (AMC Harley
>> Davidson) or anally-retentive tolerance specifications (M16 carbines ??)
>>
>> When USA conservative engineering is combined with marketing honesty, you
>> guys turn out gear that rocks. It doesn't happen all the time, however,
>> and that needs a little consumer honesty to point out. Just 'cos
>> something is marked "Made in the USA" doesn't mean it's going to trump
>> the competition, regardless. Often it does, but there's no sense in
>> getting all fierce and patriotic to try and flog a dead horse - at any
>> price.When it works, it works. SnapOn tools, etc.. The process is not
>> automatic, though. Badging a thing "American" does not confer quality.
>> Neither does "Made in Japan." It can often be an indicator that something
>> has a high probability of being superior, but it's only a probability
>> marker. The quality comes from something else, but hey, it feels good to
>> support the home team, and there's nothing wrong with that - just let's
>> not get confused about the issues.
>>
>>
> Back to the 120Vac problem here, American washing machines run off 120Vac
> so there's not enough juice to put a heater in, they run off domestic hot
> water which of course is not always hot because the dishwasher empties out
> the hot tank each time. We have the fabulously expensive Maytag Neptune,
> 12 months of use and it stank like a septic tank, as did the clothes. This
> is due to the fact it fills with luke warm water to wash, no boil cycle
> here or even over 60C to kill the goop living in the drum. Of course top
> loaders are king here because they don't have that problem. The Neptune is
> a front loader, I really can't stand 1950's top loader technology (do they
> have mangles still?). Solution was to not close the door when not in use,
> bit inconvenient but simple enough. Showers rock over here, or at least
> they did until the enviroidiots put a flow regulator in them, they are
> usually mains pressure hot tank fed, no chance of a piddling UK electric
> shower, the 8Kw heater would black out our local town.

There are many front loaders in the U.S, with built in water heaters now. I
own one made by Whirlpool for Sears. The Maytag Neptune problem had nothing
to do with water temperature. They included a light that lit up when you
left the door open so everyone closed the door. Try that on most machines
and it will start smelling from mildew. The fix was a free upgrade to a
ventilated door and mildew resistant tub. My parent's upgraded Neptune is
10 years old and smells great inside.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 10:26 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Archon wrote:

>>
>>
> Back to the 120Vac problem here, American washing machines run off
> 120Vac so there's not enough juice to put a heater in,

As has been pointed out, 120VAC has enough juice to heat water in a
machine to wash laundry or dishes.

If a child (or adult) contacts a live conductor, 240VAC will be a worse
problem than 120. American households can supply appliances with 240V
using conductors that are only 120VAC from ground.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 3:19 am
From: max

In article <6niNk.95011$Dw1.5059@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
Archon <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Save money-- buy a Hoover or a Bissel or a Snorch.
> >
> > .max
> >
> Horseshit yerself,
>
> If it wasn't for Dyson we would still be getting ripped off for hundreds
> of dollars of bags and filters a year and putting up with poorly
> designed crap that blows most of the dust back into the air along with
> the mould and crap that grows inside the non replaceable filter paths
> inside. Look how much effort the American vacuum manufacturers put into
> killing the cyclone vacuum market in America only to have their market
> share destroyed once people found out how good they are and how long
> they last.

that's nice, and it's not particularly relevant.

A machine of similar design and identical, or better, performance, can
be had for a great deal less money.

.max

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:23 am
From: "Steve Barker DLT"

I kinda wondered about that statement myself. I use 2 bags a year.
hmmmmm.... That's a dollar i guess.

"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:DuadnYwuKIawEZvUnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
>
> Hundreds of dollars on bags per year? Do you vacuum 24 hours a day?
>

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:03 am
From: "BigWallop"

<tnom@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:grrcg4p5jfiutroo1l3vomcelregqku27q@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >Hear Hear !!!
> >
> >As the man from Hoover told me, "All Vacuum Cleaners Suck".
>
> He was wrong. Vacuum cleaners don't suck. They can only
> reduce the atmospheric pressure.
>

Nah. They suck. :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maximizing Welfare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9949fc83cc11aec3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 26 2008 9:08 pm
From: Jeff

Marsha wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
> If you wait until Obama gets elected, anyone will be able to collect for
> any reason in any state for an unlimited amount of time.

QUIZ

1) Which presidential candidate has said (during the debate) that:

"We've been living beyond our means and we're going to have to make some
adjustments."

2) Both tax plans will raise the deficit. Whose tax plan is half the
cost to the deficit of the other?

Hint, it's not the candidate that you'll be voting for.

Trickle Down, AKA Voodoo Economics, always has had the same sad
result. In case you haven't noticed shoppers, 60% + of the economy, are
in retreat.

Jobs have been lost each and every month this year. Pumping money into
big business will not create jobs because there are no buyers. The only
thing that will happen is the same thing that is happening with the 250
Billion that has been pumped into banking. It will just sit there.

Now, you can buy into whatever wedge issues you want. But if you
really believe that even wealthy people are better off under a 36% max
rate with George W Bush than they were under Clinton's 39% then you may
have missed that the DJIA and S&P are now lower than when George W Bush
entered office. Those figures are red herrings anyways as no one pays
those top rates anyways after you figure in all the deductions the
wealthy are "entitled" to.

The trouble with republicans is that all they have is fear and the
only solution they have is tax cuts for the wealthy. Both those cards
have been played plenty the last 8 years and not even the Republican
Standard Bearer claims they've worked.

Just something for you not to think about, you can get back to your
wedge issues now.

Jeff

>
> Marsha/Ohio
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:44 pm
From: JonL

Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>
> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>
> Thanks for any info.

My first guess would be Calif., esp- the SF area. A while back 2
counties in Northern Cal were even giving homeless guys about $350 per
mo.(some were caught double-dipping)

In most cities/states a healthy male with no dependents will get very
little, plus you may have to forfeit any assets, such as a car. Also,
you may be required to work p/t in city parks and document your
job-hunting on your off days. Not a good retirement plan.

Better to try hitting the jackpot with a lawsuit. Trucking companies
have good insurance. Stand on a highway overpass, when you see a truck
barreling towards you in the left lane, jump!

hth

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 11:00 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <490698A4.1060302@Mayday.com>, JonL wrote:
>Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
>My first guess would be Calif., esp- the SF area. A while back 2
>counties in Northern Cal were even giving homeless guys about $350 per
>mo.(some were caught double-dipping)
>
>In most cities/states a healthy male with no dependents will get very
>little, plus you may have to forfeit any assets, such as a car. Also,
>you may be required to work p/t in city parks and document your
>job-hunting on your off days. Not a good retirement plan.
>
>Better to try hitting the jackpot with a lawsuit. Trucking companies
>have good insurance. Stand on a highway overpass, when you see a truck
>barreling towards you in the left lane, jump!

I favor "tort reform" since I am an American paying big motor vehicle
insurance bills!

I blame the Democrats for "breaking things in this area" and I also
blame the Republicans for not fixing thingsd when they had ability to do
so!

If you want your insurance bills to decrease, I say vote against lawyers
not only for President but also for both houses of Congress!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:44 am
From: Al Bundy

It sounds like you may be singing the loser's anthem before the game
even starts. Perhaps more facts would allow people to offer more
helpful ideas. Are you disabled, lazy, alien or whatever? Each
situation could point to different answers. Of course, we know you are
asking for a friend.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ot: Democrat: Obama's grandma confirms Kenyan birth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8e80385d4cd9e3d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:13 pm
From: "NotMe"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

: >>> Right. When Obama was Hillary Clinton's opponent in the primaries,
: >>> Clinton supporter Philip J. Berg filed suit for Obama to prove his
: >>> citizenship. His only evidence to the contrary was a rumor that an
: >>> unknown Obama relative who may no longer have been living had said he
: >>> was born in Kenya. Obama filed to have the suit dismissed. Berg
calls
: >>> that an admission that he's not a U.S. citizen.
: >>>
: >>> To answer speculation, Obama posted a scan of his birth certificate.
: >>> Some bloggers pointed to artifacts as proof it was a forgery. So
: >>> factcheck.org scanned a genuine birth certificate and found that the
: >>> scan had the same artifacts.
: >>>
: >>> Then factcheck.org found an announcement of Obama's birth in the
August
: >>> 13, 1961 edition of the /Honolulu Advertiser./
: >>>
: >>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
: >>
: >> His mother is an American. So he is an American citizen, no matter
where
: >> he was born anyway.
: >>
: >> I am constantly amazed about the lies the wackos make up.
: >>
: >>
: >
: > Those who doubt his citizenship say one parent has to have resided in
the
: > United States a certain number of years, including five years after
: > turning fourteen. They say his mother didn't qualify because she hadn't
: > turned 19.
: >
: > The proof that Obama was born in Hawaii makes it moot in this case, but
: > I'm curious about the law. Suppose two college students who have been
: > Americans all their lives get married. They are over the border in
: > Canada, perhaps viewing Niagara Falls, when their baby is unexpectedly
: > born. If neither parent has turned nineteen, is the baby not an
American
: > citizen?
:
: there are those who contend that a "natural born citizen" is only one born
: on u.s. soil, as in an actual u.s. state only. that would disqualify
: mccain since he was born in panama or something like that. the there's
me
: who insists that the natural born part means a vaginal birth, not a
: caesarian. :-o (haha)

You left out anal birth which is often used in reference to political folk.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:11 pm
From: "NotMe"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j7qNk.739$Jv2.108@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
:
: "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
: news:ge3jun$fv$2@registered.motzarella.org...
: >
: > "E Z Peaces"
: > | >>> | >> Right. When Obama was Hillary Clinton's opponent in the
: > primaries,
: > | >>> Clinton
: > | >>> | >> supporter Philip J. Berg filed suit for Obama to prove his
: > | >>> citizenship. His
: > | >>> | >> only evidence to the contrary was a rumor that an unknown
Obama
: > | >>> relative who
: > | >>> | >> may no longer have been living had said he was born in Kenya.
: > Obama
: > | >>> filed to
: > | >>> | >> have the suit dismissed. Berg calls that an admission that
: > he's
: > not
: > | >>> a U.S.
: > | >>> | >> citizen.
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> To answer speculation, Obama posted a scan of his birth
: > certificate.
: > | >>> Some
: > | >>> | >> bloggers pointed to artifacts as proof it was a forgery. So
: > | >>> factcheck.org
: > | >>> | >> scanned a genuine birth certificate and found that the scan
had
: > the
: > | >>> same
: > | >>> | >> artifacts.
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> Then factcheck.org found an announcement of Obama's birth in
: > the
: > | >>> August 13,
: > | >>> | >> 1961 edition of the /Honolulu Advertiser./
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | > His mother is an American. So he is an American citizen, no
: > matter
: > | >>> where he was
: > | >>> | > born anyway.
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | > I am constantly amazed about the lies the wackos make up.
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> |
: > | >>> | Those who doubt his citizenship say one parent has to have
resided
: > in
: > | >>> | the United States a certain number of years, including five
years
: > after
: > | >>> | turning fourteen. They say his mother didn't qualify because
she
: > | >>> hadn't
: > | >>> | turned 19.
: > | >>> |
: > | >>> | The proof that Obama was born in Hawaii makes it moot in this
: > case,
: > but
: > | >>> | I'm curious about the law. Suppose two college students who
have
: > been
: > | >>> | Americans all their lives get married. They are over the border
: > in
: > | >>> | Canada, perhaps viewing Niagara Falls, when their baby is
: > unexpectedly
: > | >>> | born. If neither parent has turned nineteen, is the baby not an
: > | >>> | American citizen?
: > | >>>
: > | >>>
: > | >>> The baby is an American citizen what the baby can't be is POTUS
when
: > he
: > | >>> grows up.
: > | >> Yeah, that's it. It seems like a strange distinction. I wonder if
: > the
: > | >> founding fathers wrote to it to exclude a particular politician.
: > | >
: > | > I wonder if was just intended to exclude naturalized American
: > citizens.
: > | > Surprising that a case hasn't made it's way to the courts to
determine
: > what
: > | > the original "intent" of the language was.
: > | >
: > | >
: > | Apparently John Jay and George Washington decided certain high offices
: > | should be limited to natural citizens as a way of keeping power within
: > | their group. (A lot of influential Americans in those days were not
: > | natives.) However, the Constitution left it to Congress to define the
: > | distinction between natural and naturalized citizens.
: > |
: > | John McCain's parents were citizens, but he was not a citizen
according
: > | to the law when he was born. George Romney's parents were citizens,
but
: > | he did not come to America until he was 32. I don't know what the law
: > | said about his citizenship when he ran for Vice President in 1968.
: >
: > The Canal Zone is considered US property as is (I'm out on a limb here)
: > any
: > US base in the world for the purposed of being a natural born citizen of
: > the
: > USA wrt kids of service personal.
:
: but has it ever been deemed so by the courts? there are those who would
: insist that "natural born" means born within the borders of a u.s. state.

Matters not: There are previous presidents that were born in territories
and if I'm not mistaken possessions as well.

Regardless the US State Department has accepted both Obama and McCain's BC
as 'born in the USA" which in a legal sense make the question moot.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 11:30 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <ge648a$rp$2@registered.motzarella.org>, NotMe wrote in part:

>You left out anal birth which is often used in reference to political folk.

How many people are born through their mothers' bungholes? I thought
that nature intended mammal mothers to bear their babies through their
vaginas! At least among mammals that are more evolved from birds than a
duck-billed platypus is!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the lowest cell phone cost?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64ff8aa2b5f47ee2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 1:35 am
From: "GP"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:jpOdnaoeEppb_5nUnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Most of our family and friends use Verizon so in-network calling is free.

So does the whole family come together during Christmas
to decide what provider to use?

And what if some family members choses a different
provider - does everyone else boycott him - no calls
till he returns to the fold?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wanted! People That Love To Get Free Products.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dc7ee4b3a7ca72fa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 4:27 am
From: "eforce.ws"

We need people that want to receive free electronics,
free groceries, free jewelry, free software, free flight
vouchers, free vouchers for 4 star hotels, and more.
If interested, send an email. All replies personally
answered with complete info.

Take the free tour to get all the details.
http://mcfree.nocashever.com

For further details subscribe below to my free report.
http://www.trafficwave.net/lcp/eforce/ffmcfree

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Isn't This A Screw Job?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9edc171a4be3330?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:55 am
From: curly'q

"The available balance and available credit information displayed
through 'W**** F**** Online' is updated immediately to reflect your
transaction. However, it will take 2-3 business days to fully process
this transaction and update the outstanding credit balance and history."

OK, so they can withdraw money instantly from an interest bearing
account, but it takes 2-3 days (in 2008?) to credit a loan account.

Something smells.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where are YOU cutting back?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a47415e5933d30b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:17 am
From: Scritch

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in news:68bba63c-348a-4da5-
a10c-26d31e952c5b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> farther?
>
> I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT

It's time to start home brewing again. It might not cost less per bottle,
but it'll keep me from drinking more.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:59 am
From: Ignoramus20172

On 2008-10-28, Scritch <info@mymainstreet.info> wrote:
> It's time to start home brewing again. It might not cost less per bottle,
> but it'll keep me from drinking more.

How brewing at home will keep you from drinking more?

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:17 am
From: Charlie Self

On Oct 25, 11:57 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> farther?
>
> I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>

We started with new windows and siding. That should cut fuel
consumption at least a bit.

We decided to keep both vehicles at least two more years, so spent
about $1,300 on the car for repairs and maintenance. My old truck
needed an oil change. I also need to get a new lock system on the
camper cap. Gaffer's tape holding the cap gate shut is getting to be a
PITA.

I upgraded my computer monitor, but kept the old (5-1/2 years, give or
take 3GB P4, 3GB RAM Dell) computer. That's changed a lot since it
showed up at the door, but my eyeballs were hurting from messing with
the 19" CRT, so I got a Dell Viewsonic 2408 WFP. What a revelation!

Instead of replacing the electric furnace in the shop, I'm thinking
very seriously of installing a wood stove.

We'll probably let the TV satellite go. That means we'll probably do
without TV, because the set is very old, cost what I consider a max
for a TV set ($297), and I am not going to pay for a conversion box to
bring in the local channel news. We watch little else, so that's not a
real loss. $750 for a TV set that we then pay $55 and rising per month
to keep active is silly when probably three days out of the week it
isn't turned on at all, and on most other days, it gets to work its
way through an hour of news programs. I can't find the time to sit in
front of the thing to be insulted by the intellegence level of
commercials (all of 'em, not just the political ads).

Buy fewer books. This 'un hurts, but we'd have to do that anyway, or
move to a bigger house.

I bought a new DSLR a few weeks ago. That's probably the last major
camera purchase for a year or so, even though it is tax deductible.
I'm not interested in working hard enough to need too many deductions,
anyway. Semi-retirement.

We'll plant a bigger vegetable garden, and my wife will can more. Of
course, most years we end up giving the kids half of what gets canned,
but Frances is farm raised, so gets itchy if she can't raise and can
and freeze, the same way I get itchy if I can't shoot photos and
write. Arthritis is starting to limit any realistic woodworking
chances these days. I've got enough local wood stored, mostly cherry
and oak, to last me at least two more years, but I'd sure love some
maple and birch and...

Cut the grass every other time it needs it...big damned sacrifice,
huh? I hate cutting grass. In fact, most of this year we paid a young
guy to come do it. He can whip the two acres out (minus shop, storage,
house, gardens) in about 1/3 the time it takes my wife and I.

The house is paid for. The cars are paid for. A few bucks in the bank.
A few bucks coming in each month that probably won't rise or fall.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:23 am
From: Charlie Self

On Oct 26, 2:20 am, FlexUP! wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:21:22 -0500, Ignoramus3071
>
> <ignoramus3...@NOSPAM.3071.invalid> wrote:
> >I now use both sides of toilet paper
>
> I took free yoga classes at our local library, until I was limber enough to
> lick my own butt. The taste is nasty, but I save $42 per year in toilet
> paper.

And think of what you save on snacks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Penis Enlargement Exercises
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee0412f1507f31d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:27 am
From: ejn14ls6

The First Penis Enlargement Exercise Program under Clinical Trial
Pennis Health. Find out how to get bigger
300+ videos and photos, 35 unique exercises, 24 hour support, and a 6
month guarantee

__________________________________

http://usinfo.info/penis-enlargement-exercises

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get your money back on any product that fails
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf36a607cf5a61cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:55 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

How to get your money back on most any product that fails just after
its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:

Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:

Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers

SONY microcassette tape-recorders

any compact flourescent light bulb

digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc

SIMPLY:

1. Buy the SAME product at any store.

2. Take advantage of the store's return policy! Wait two weeks; then
put the failed product in the new product's packaging and return it to
the store with the new product's sales receipt. Get your money back!

The more people who do this- the sooner these sloppy manufacturers
will make a quality product and give a reasonable warranty! That even
goes for the cheap Chinese items at the Dollar Store.

==============================================================================

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Tuesday, October 28, 2008

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