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Today's topics:
* What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday? - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
* Buy local produce - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
* wholesale prada shoes,gucci shoes,4us shoes,desuarel2 shoes,air max shoes -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a148f5c21f3a2249?hl=en
* Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway? - 14
messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
* FREE 2008 Prayer Calendar from Billy Graham - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ac1a91515f50d34?hl=en
* Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
* For those who rarely fill their refrigerators..... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
* Old hillbilly trick - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/43174d8ee314b8f1?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 2:18 pm
From: Anthony Matonak
OhioGuy wrote:
>> To ignore what is just another stupid con job.
>
> How so? I spoke to my Grandfather, and he says most folks around here
> have celebrated it since he was a kid. (and he's 84)
I didn't grow up in the Midwest and neither did my father or his father.
This is entirely new to me and generations before me. I guess I'll have
to just do the same thing I do with all the other special days that have
absolutely no meaning to me, my family or anyone I know.
Anthony
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 2:18 pm
From: Peter Bruells
Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> writes:
> OhioGuy wrote:
> >> To ignore what is just another stupid con job.
> > How so? I spoke to my Grandfather, and he says most folks around
> > here have celebrated it since he was a kid. (and he's 84)
>
> I didn't grow up in the Midwest and neither did my father or his father.
> This is entirely new to me and generations before me. I guess I'll have
> to just do the same thing I do with all the other special days that have
> absolutely no meaning to me, my family or anyone I know.
Yeah... but it sounds as if its a "holiday" one can easily ignore,
unless the pest of Halloween which has crept over the Atlantic.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 4:09 pm
From: Derald
"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:
> I'm planning on getting my wife a box of malted milk balls - her
>favorite - and writing a poem for her. The day is about showing you
>remembered and that you appreciate the person with a small gift (usually
>edible), not about trying to get huge or expensive gifts.
Baloney; the day is about yet another "occasion" with the
"opportunity" to buy more malted milk balls, for example. It's as
manufactured as Christmas and Mother's Day. Just silly.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>> To ignore what is just another stupid con job.
> How so?
Its just another con job designed to get people to spend more on confectionary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetest_Day
> I spoke to my Grandfather, and he says most folks around
> here have celebrated it since he was a kid. (and he's 84)
All that means is that its a con job thats been around for quite a while.
> It is also on our wall calendar.
Any effective con job gets onto the calendars.
> Why would you consider an opportunity to show your appreciation to someone you love (at little cost, I might add) to
> be a con job?
Because its obviously designed to increase the sales of that sort of thing.
> 50 years ago, Sweetest Day was mostly celebrated in the Midwest. However, as jobs moved, the Interstates were built,
> and people
> started becoming more mobile, they took their local holidays with
> them, including Sweetest Day.
> That is why Texas, California and Florida are now up in the top 10
> as far as # of people celebrating Sweetest Day. Just 10 years ago,
> it was still all Midwest states.
Irrevant to whether its just another con job designed to get people to spend more on confectionary.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 2:24 pm
From: James
On Oct 15, 2:36 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:11 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> > Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
> > local economy also.
>
> What the hell are we supposed to eat when the ground is frozen solid
> for months on end?
>
> Get a grip.
What did people eat one hundred years ago, when shipping produce
around the world was almost unheard of (with some exceptions).
Root vegatables like potatoes, turnips, carrots, and squash, apples
are all cold stored and sold at reasonable prices throughout the
winter.
We don't stop buying imports all together, but we do reduce during the
winter.
And of course another technique was to can (or more recently freeze)
local produce to use all year round.
The reason many of our veggies are tasteless these days is they are
picked at a point where they can be transported long distances without
spoilage, which means in many cases they never fully ripened.
I go to farmers markets when I can to get local, and it does taste
better.
James
==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale prada shoes,gucci shoes,4us shoes,desuarel2 shoes,air max
shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a148f5c21f3a2249?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 2:27 pm
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TOPIC: Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
John Weiss <jrweiss@nospamattglobal.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>> Not nearly...clean is a far cry from "sterile"
>> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.
> Nope.
Yep.
> Once the containers are opened, they are no longer sterile. After being used many times and opened & closed
> repeatedly, they are no longer sterile.
And few bother to refrigerate olive oil and vinegar once they have
been opened and the container doesnt say that you should either.
> The container used for the mixture may be as clean or cleaner than the bottles of oil & vinegar.
Unlikely given that the container will have been washed
in the home, and not new in the manufacturing plant.
> FWIW, many restaurants keep salad dressings in unrefrigerated
> containers. If you use them up in a reasonable time (a few days)
> there is no need to refrigerate them.
Irrelevant to the question that was asked.
> OTOH, repeated shaking of the mixture will aerate it, and possibly
> accelerate the oxidation of the olive oil, which will change its
> taste and aroma. Refrigeration may help delay that oxidation.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:31 pm
From: Brian Mailman
Rod Speed wrote:
> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Jeanette Guire <jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>>> refrigerated?
>>
>> As I understand it, the garlic and other herbs put in the dressing may
>> have botulism spores on them, the oil provides the environment for the
>> botulism to grow. The vinegar doesn't stop the growth because it
>> separates too easily from the mix.
>
> Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff keeps fine unrefrigerated
> but you need to refrigerate it once its been opened.
How about what "we" say over here in rfp when a similar question comes
up: "Commercial producers have equipment and techniques not available
to the home cook."
B/
>> You may be able to avoid refrigeration if you
>> first infuse the herbs and garlic in pure vinegar.
>
> You're unlikely to be able to do that in a sterile situation without a lot of trouble.
>
>> However I think the likelihood of spoilage is greater if you do this.
>
> Corse it is.
>
>> (It may not be toxic, but it will taste bad.)
>
>
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:36 pm
From: "GreenieLeBrun"
Rod Speed wrote:
> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>
>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>
>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>>>
>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>
>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>
>> Sterility (from a microbiological view)is like virginity it either is
>> or it isn't no in between.
>
> Wrong with new containers for those components.
No, not unless those containers were sterilised via autoclaving, hot air
(160C), or gamma irradiation.
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:38 pm
From: "GreenieLeBrun"
Rod Speed wrote:
> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Goomba38 wrote:
>>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>>> On Oct 14, 10:18 pm, Jeanette Guire <jeanettegu...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when
>>>>> mixed (as in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it
>>>>> to be refrigerated (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>>>
>>>>> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt
>>>>> from a microbial culture standpoint?
>>>>
>>>> The bacteria need to be in water to live and the oil provides the
>>>> food for them to grow.
>>>
>>> Bacteria do not need water to survive.
>>> That said, I'd be curious if this is just habit or has anyone
>>> actually done study of whether the mixed oil/vinegar require
>>> chilling to keep bacterial load in check? What other ingredients are
>>> added tht might introduce higher risks?
>>
>> Microorganisms such as bacteria and fungi (including yeasts) require
>> a certain level of "Available Water" to metabolise and grow. Properly
>> made jams do not have sufficient "Available Water" to permit
>> microbial growth.
>> Fungi and bacteria can grow (usually anaerobically) at an oil/water
>> interface an this causes immense problems when water gets in to fuel
>> storages causing the build up of gunge that can disable jet engines
>> (most embarrising at 20,000 feet when all engines cut out).
>
> The problem with that theory is that the dressing sold ready to use
> already has that interface and doesnt require refrigeration until its
> opened.
>> The question is what bacteria are able to grow at the vinegar/oil
>> interface? My guess would be very few medically important
>> microorganisms if it is good quality vinegar.
>
>> Either make the dressing up in small batches and discard the unused
>> portion or keep it in the fridge and either zap it in the microwave
>> or warm it up with warm water before use.
You will find that these commercial dressings contain preservatives that
inhibit the growth of microorganisms
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 4:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>>
>>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>>>>
>>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>>
>>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>>
>>> Sterility (from a microbiological view)is like virginity it either
>>> is or it isn't no in between.
>>
>> Wrong with new containers for those components.
>
> No, not unless those containers were sterilised via autoclaving, hot
> air (160C), or gamma irradiation.
They end up close enough to sterile due to the manufacturing process.
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 4:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Goomba38 wrote:
>>>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 14, 10:18 pm, Jeanette Guire <jeanettegu...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when
>>>>>> mixed (as in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for
>>>>>> it to be refrigerated (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices &
>>>>>> salt from a microbial culture standpoint?
>>>>>
>>>>> The bacteria need to be in water to live and the oil provides the
>>>>> food for them to grow.
>>>>
>>>> Bacteria do not need water to survive.
>>>> That said, I'd be curious if this is just habit or has anyone
>>>> actually done study of whether the mixed oil/vinegar require
>>>> chilling to keep bacterial load in check? What other ingredients
>>>> are added tht might introduce higher risks?
>>>
>>> Microorganisms such as bacteria and fungi (including yeasts) require
>>> a certain level of "Available Water" to metabolise and grow.
>>> Properly made jams do not have sufficient "Available Water" to
>>> permit microbial growth.
>>> Fungi and bacteria can grow (usually anaerobically) at an oil/water
>>> interface an this causes immense problems when water gets in to fuel
>>> storages causing the build up of gunge that can disable jet engines
>>> (most embarrising at 20,000 feet when all engines cut out).
>>
>> The problem with that theory is that the dressing sold ready to use
>> already has that interface and doesnt require refrigeration until its
>> opened.
>>> The question is what bacteria are able to grow at the vinegar/oil
>>> interface? My guess would be very few medically important
>>> microorganisms if it is good quality vinegar.
>>
>>> Either make the dressing up in small batches and discard the unused
>>> portion or keep it in the fridge and either zap it in the microwave
>>> or warm it up with warm water before use.
>
> You will find that these commercial dressings contain preservatives
> that inhibit the growth of microorganisms
Mine doesnt.
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 4:56 pm
From: "GreenieLeBrun"
Rod Speed wrote:
> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up
>>>>>>> contaminating the mixture, if only because the container wont
>>>>>>> be sterile.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>>>
>>>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>>>
>>>> Sterility (from a microbiological view)is like virginity it either
>>>> is or it isn't no in between.
>>>
>>> Wrong with new containers for those components.
>>
>> No, not unless those containers were sterilised via autoclaving, hot
>> air (160C), or gamma irradiation.
>
> They end up close enough to sterile due to the manufacturing process.
There is no such thing as "close enough to sterile". Sterility is an
absolute. Granted, the vessels will be, in all probability, very clean but
that is the best that can be claimed.
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:08 pm
From: "Bob F"
<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s297h3hakjmmgvo8er0np7ljnec8191bf9@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:11:03 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
> wrote:
>
>>In article <c%AQi.6197$lE2.1930@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, Jeanette Guire
>><jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
>>>in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
>>>(where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>>
>>>What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
>>>microbial culture standpoint?
>>>
>>>Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>>>refrigerated?
>>
>>I noted various responses to this thread, but my opinion is that it's
>>the *spices* that will most likely cause a potential problem by
>>introducing a suite of chemicals that microbes will find useful for
>>growth. (As well as probably introducing a nice selection of
>>bacterial spores to start the rot, so to speak. :-)
>>
>>Also, as others mentioned, bugs that may be able to metabolise
>>pure olive oil probably require some moisture present to do their
>>thing, and that would be provided by the vinegar.
>>
>>Further, if the pH of the final brew is higher than the magic figure
>>(4.6?) then some common nasties will be able to grow in it.
>>
>>Cheers, Phred.
>
> Consistant with the fact that mayonaise can be unrefrigerated, but
> that once it is mixed into other foods the mixture can be deadly.
Doesn't it usually say "refrigerate after opening"?
Bob
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up
>>>>>>>> contaminating the mixture, if only because the container wont
>>>>>>>> be sterile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sterility (from a microbiological view)is like virginity it either
>>>>> is or it isn't no in between.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong with new containers for those components.
>>>
>>> No, not unless those containers were sterilised via autoclaving, hot
>>> air (160C), or gamma irradiation.
>>
>> They end up close enough to sterile due to the manufacturing process.
> There is no such thing as "close enough to sterile". Sterility is an absolute.
Wrong, as always. A freshly manufactured glass bottle is close
enough to sterile just because of the process used to make it.
> Granted, the vessels will be, in all probability, very clean but that is the best that can be claimed.
Same thing, different words.
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:33 pm
From: "just joe"
>>> They end up close enough to sterile due to the manufacturing process.
>
>> There is no such thing as "close enough to sterile". Sterility is an
>> absolute.
>
> Wrong, as always. A freshly manufactured glass bottle is close
> enough to sterile just because of the process used to make it.
>
>> Granted, the vessels will be, in all probability, very clean but that is
>> the best that can be claimed.
>
> Same thing, different words.
>
uh, rod buddy, words mean something.
sterile will never mean close enough to sterile.
different words mean different things.
amazon.com has some good deals on dictionaries.
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:52 pm
From: Daniel MacKay
> Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?
Don't take my word for it. do it.
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Daniel MacKay <daniel@bonmot.ca> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daniel MacKay <daniel@bonmot.ca> wrote:
>>>> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.
>>> You're not listening.
>> You in spades.
>>> Either a container is sterile - that is, a can, or a jar with
>>> an airtight seal, and has been "processed" at a certain
>>> temperature for a certain number of minutes, or it is not.
>>> There is no such thing as "pretty close in practice."
>> You can keep asserting that till you are blue in the face if you like, changes nothing.
>>> Dressing and mayonnaise containers in the grocery store are not. They
>>> have cardboard seals, are in no way airtight, and have not been "processed."
>> And they are close enough to sterile for all practical purposes anyway.
>>> They can't be processed - you can't heat mayonnaise.
>> We aint talking about mayonnaise.
>>> Conversely, if you argue that a plastic jar with a cardboard seal
>> Its got a plastic top as well as the cardboard seal.
>>> is sufficient to preserve food, you should put up some fruits and
>>> vegetables that way and check back on them in a couple of weeks.
>> Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?
> Don't take my word for it. do it.
No thanks, it aint relevant to what is actually being discussed.
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 6:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
just joe <don.gato@alaska.com> wrote:
>>>> They end up close enough to sterile due to the manufacturing
>>>> process.
>>
>>> There is no such thing as "close enough to sterile". Sterility is an
>>> absolute.
>>
>> Wrong, as always. A freshly manufactured glass bottle is close
>> enough to sterile just because of the process used to make it.
>>
>>> Granted, the vessels will be, in all probability, very clean but
>>> that is the best that can be claimed.
>>
>> Same thing, different words.
> uh, rod buddy, words mean something.
And in that particular case, they mean essentially the same thing.
> sterile will never mean close enough to sterile.
And close enough to sterile has a different meaning to sterile.
> different words mean different things.
And in that particular case, they mean essentially the same thing.
> amazon.com has some good deals on dictionaries.
Only a fool bothers with that sort of dinosaur technology when there are so many online.
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 6:06 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > As I understand it, the garlic and other herbs put in the
> > dressing may have botulism spores on them, the oil provides the
> > environment for the botulism to grow. The vinegar doesn't stop
> > the growth because it separates too easily from the mix.
>
> Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff keeps fine unrefrigerated
> but you need to refrigerate it once its been opened.
Commercial salad dressings and acidified sauces are
microbiologically safe. Manufacturers follow strict quality
controls and diligently comply with FDA-mandated Good
Manufacturing Practices in production of these commercial
products. Commercial salad dressing and sauce products are also
made with pasteurized eggs that are free of Salmonella and other
pathogenic bacteria and further ensure the safety of these
products. As such, these commercial products do not have the food
safety risks associated with their homemade counterparts, which
contain unpasteurized eggs. Homemade versions also may not
contain sufficient quantities of food acids like vinegar (acetic
acid) or lemon juice (citric acid) to kill harmful
microorganisms.
(http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap1sal.html)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE 2008 Prayer Calendar from Billy Graham
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ac1a91515f50d34?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:37 pm
From: eHDMI
FREE 2008 Prayer Calendar from Billy Graham
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=177
Yah! Stay up to date with this nice FREE calendar! God Bless
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 3:48 pm
From: Thanatos
In article <4713bc2b$0$28845$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-6907A0.21372114102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >> >> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Build the Fence!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
> >> >> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
> >> >
> >> > I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to
> >> > stay
> >> > here as foreign residents at a minimum.
> >>
> >> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
> >> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the
> >> line"?
> >
> > Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
> > illegal and the other is not...
>
> the only important fact is, it is our government who decides who is legal
> and who is illegal. So, it is our government who can decide to turn what is
> otherwise considered illegal to be legal.
But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
(legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
ignore it.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:14 pm
From: "Bob F"
"Jeff" <dont_bug_me@all.uk> wrote in message
news:13h6lqsevkqgf93@corp.supernews.com...
> Shadowland wrote:
>
>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>> cooled again.
>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>> With a filled refrig you'll find your frig saving energy.
>
> I think this is an urban myth. Anyone ever do a actual research on this?
>
> Water has a very high specific heat and it will take a lot of energy to
> remove the BTUs of heat. If you never put in the water jugs you'd never have
> to remove their heat. Air on the other hand has a really low specific heat per
> cubic foot (and so would those plastic peanuts that have been mentioned).
>
> What the water does is store thermal energy and even out any temperature
> swings. But it has to be cooled itself and that is power that you never would
> have spent if you hadn't put it in! And that power drain is not just initial,
> but continuous. I think a better question is just how much less electricity
> will an empty fridge use than a full one. Any one with a "kill a watt" want to
> give that a try? I think the losses of door openings are more of length of
> time than number of openings. Just like you shouldn't leave your front door
> open on a cold day, you shouldn't leave your fridge door open while you are
> thinking.
If your fridge is empty, you will obviously save energy, as you will have no
reason to open the door.
I suppose that jugs of water could increase efficiency by lengthening the cycle
time. Has anyone ever done tests on this?
Bob
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Old hillbilly trick
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/43174d8ee314b8f1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:14 pm
From: "lee h"
Shadowland wrote:
> Instead of buying "Chaplips" lip gloss...stick your finger in your
> ear. Ear wax is an excellent
> lip gloss substitution.
Remind me not to ask you for cheap *fudge* flavoring. ;-)
lee
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