Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 16 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c87aa24bcc7ee9ac?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: >>| EARN $1000 PER DAY WITHOUT INVESTING SINGLE CENT |<<
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a7820b684d877eb2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:12 am
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TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:20 am
From: Jeff

Al Bundy wrote:

> On Oct 13, 4:53 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>
>>"Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>>If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>>>place containers of water into the empty areas.
>>>Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>>>refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>>>cooled again.
>>>With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>>>there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>>>That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>>
>>
>>Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>>
>>Don
>
>
> Right Don. Who doesn't have a stock of old 6CA7,EL34,6BQ5/
> EL84,6L6,6K6,5881,6V6,and KT66 tubes around?

That's a good question. And the oddball that is keeping their 6L6s
elsewhere I suppose will have to use their obsolete incandescent light
bulbs. Or maybe just keep that old CRT monitor in the fridge. You could
always hide the last beer behind it, who would look?

Jeff

The packages tend to get
> real soggy though.
>
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:28 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Jeff <dont_bug_me@all.uk> wrote:

>What the water does is store thermal energy and even out any
>temperature swings...

... which don't affect the fridge power consumption.

>But it has to be cooled itself and that is power that you never would have
>spent if you hadn't put it in! And that power drain is not just initial,
>but continuous.

It's mostly initial, but adding mass surface inside the fridge increases
airflow and condensation when the door is open, so the fridge gains more
heat when the door is open and uses more energy over time, IMO.

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An Allentown house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a111237f5724e25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:31 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

If outdoor air varies from 60 to 80 F on an average July day and the house
gains 34K Btu/day from 300 kWh of indoor electrical use plus 5K Btu of DHW
storage tank loss, with 6 hours per day of night ventilation, we need to
store 18h/24hx39K = 29K of coolth. If its thermal mass C warms from 65 F
in the morning to 75 by afternoon, (75-65)C = 29K makes C = 2.9K Btu/F.

A house with an inherent thermal mass of say, 2K Btu/F (1 Btu/F per board
foot of drywall, etc.), might include some basement mass for cooling, eg
900/55 = 16 4"x10' horizontal thinwall endcapped PVC water pipes tucked up
between first floor joists with a 3/4" hole on top and a #3 rubber stopper.
With more pipes or some uninsulated basement walls, we could store coolth
for a few warm days in a row.

>>>A radiator and its 2 12V fans could live at the top of a vertical duct
>>>that >>>returns sunspace air to the lower sunspace without mixing with
>>>room air, with 2 motorized dampers, fully-open or fully-closed...

In summertime, we could close the lower adamper and let outdoor air enter
the basement via a one-way window convection damper and exit via a summer
sunspace vent, like this, viewed in a fixed font:

------------------------------------------
| . motor r motor . .
| . <--> a <--> . . ==> (raise the upper damper to
| . fd . . stop natural airflow when
| . ==> ai ==> . 2' | the house temp drops
| . na . | to 65 F)
| . st . s |
| . o 2' . u |
| |--adamper-r--sdamper-| n | s
| | | s | o
| | | p | 20' u thermosyphoning night air
| | 2K Btu/F | a | t cools house and basement
| | house | c | t
| | mass | e | h
| a .s |
| d .d |
| a .a |
| m .m |
| ^ p .p .
| | e .e .
| | r .r .
|...........-------------.......---------------------
| 900 Btu/F | |
| basement . basement | |
| window mass | |
| damper . | |
| | |
| . . . . |
| |
| |
--------------------------------

During the day, we could run the radiator fans to cool the house with
basement air using a room temp thermostat and an occupancy sensor:

------------------------------------------
| . motor r motor s .
| . <--> a <--> d . ==>
| . fd a .
| . <== ai <== m 2' |
| . na p |
| . st e s |
| . o 2' r u |
| |--adamper-r--.......-| n | s
| | | s | o
| | | p | 20' u basement air cools house
| | 2K Btu/F | a | t during the day
| | house | c | t
| | mass | e | h
| a .s |
| d .d |
| a .a ^ |
| m .m | |
| | p ^ .p | .
| | e | .e . <== outdoor air cools sunspace
| v r | .r .
|...........-------------.......---------------------
| 900 Btu/F | |
| basement . basement | |
| window mass | |
| damper . | |
| | |
| . . . . | |
| ==> |
| |
--------------------------------

In 6 hours, 2 2'x3' vents with a 20' height difference and a 70-65 F avg
temp diff can move 6hx16.6x2'x3'sqrt(20')(70-65)^1.5 = 30K Btu/day.

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 5:47 am
From: trotsky

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Audie Murphy's Ghost wrote:
>> In article <4711c828$0$16482$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, Anthony Matonak
>> wrote:
>>> Well, walls alone aren't the answer. You also need land mines,
>>> electronic surveillance and guys with guns. No wall, all by itself,
>>> is going to keep anyone out of anything. It's just there to slow them
>>> down enough that the guys with guns can discourage them further.
>>
>> So now you want to blow people up and shoot them for crossing a
>> border. How North Korean of you.
>
> How much problem does North Korea have with illegal aliens crossing
> the border?

What, does Kim Jong Il look like he's from this planet?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:15 am
From: "Rick"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ngqk4Fi89r2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:471199f7$0$11578$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:5nabtmFh94b9U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to
>>>>>>>>> deal with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part
>>>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>>>>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a
>>>>>>> long time now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the
>>>>>>>>>>> real problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy
>>>>>>>>>>> can possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there
>>>>>>>>>>> are inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards
>>>>>>>>>>> in the US are much better than in mexico and so they move to
>>>>>>>>>>> US if they can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach
>>>>>>>>>>> like the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one
>>>>>>>>>>> brat STILL didnt fix the problem that the living standards
>>>>>>>>>>> in the US are MUCH better than in china, and so hordes would
>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to leave china.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living
>>>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless
>>>>>>>> of their birth rate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>>>>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem,
>>>>>>> that STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the
>>>>>>> living standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US
>>>>>>> that hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and
>>>>>>> migrate to another one, and that many of them are prepared to do
>>>>>>> that illegally.
>>>>>>>> While some countries have not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like the entire third world, which just happens
>>>>>>> to be where the illegals are mostly coming from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No one can say it will not work in Iraq.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Corse anyone with a clue can say that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only someone who knows what will happen in the futrre can do
>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wrong. Its perfectly possible to notice that full civil war
>>>>>>> doesnt just stop by
>>>>>>> itself and that what the US is doing in Iraq isnt going to stop
>>>>>>> it any time soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All we can say is that it is not working yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it wont, you watch. Replacing the govt produced the
>>>>>>>>> inevitable result, a full civil war, and those dont just go
>>>>>>>>> away by wishing that would happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some have lasted for hundreds of years effectively, like with
>>>>>>>>> Ireland.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, and there is no civil war in Ireland now, because the
>>>>>>>> english did not give up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, because the Irish eventually came to their senses, after
>>>>>>> CENTURYS. There isnt a shred of evidence that the stupid rag
>>>>>>> heads in Iraq will be giving up on their civil war any time soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can get the government of Mexico to get rid of most of
>>>>>> their govt run companies and free up that economy we wouldn't
>>>>>> have to build a fence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fantasy. The chinese have gone that route and there are STILL
>>>>> hordes of chinese that would move to any first world country that
>>>>> would have them.
>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>>>>>
>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>>>
>>>> But fewer will try and that's a good thing.
>>>
>>> Sure, if you're prepare to spend the non trivial amount of money
>>> that a useful wall would cost.
>>>
>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have
>>>> now.
>>>
>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.
>
>> The promise of Amnesty to all those who get hear sure didn't help either
>
> It actually made the problem much worse.
>
>> but thanks to talk radio and the grass roots organizations put a stop to
>> that. And the illegalgrants waving the Mexican flag didn't help their
>> cause either when they protested that they had a right to come hear
>> illegally.
>
> There word is here, not hear.
Point taken I'll make sure to do the same.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Jordans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/781db823857a9922?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
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== 2 of 2 ==
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 6:23 am
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TOPIC: Milenko Kindl Cvrcko fefj0jrijijojfjflasj
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf918a77a9f94113?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 7:25 am
From: Raul Endymion

Milenko Kindl

WIESBADEN, Germany - Russian President Vladimir Putin insisted Monday
that he would travel to Iran to discuss its nuclear program despite
reports of an assassination plot, saying if he paid attention to all
the threats against him "I would never leave home."
ADVERTISEMENT

Russia's Interfax news agency, citing a source in Russia's special
services, said Sunday that suicide terrorists had been trained to
carry out the assassination in Iran. The Kremlin said Putin was
informed about the threat.

"Of course I am going to Iran," Putin told reporters at a news
conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel following talks in
Wiesbaden, southwest Germany. "If I always listened to all the various
threats and the recommendations of the special services I would never
leave home."

Putin said the trip was a chance to support direct dealings with Iran
- which has no diplomatic relations with the United States - and cited
North Korea, which recently agreed to take its nuclear reactor out of
service, as an example of the results achievable by diplomacy.

"We were patient and consistently looked for solutions and it looks
like we are finding them. The same has to be applied, we believe, in
the case of the Iranian nuclear program," Putin said.

"We can and must be patient and look for a way out. Can we do it
without having a dialogue with the Iranian leadership and people? I
think it's impossible, unlikely."

Putin did underline that Russia planned to work with Europe and the
United States, which are also stressing negotiation despite recurring
speculation about a potential U.S. strike against Iran. Washington is
pushing for a third, tougher round of sanctions against Tehran for
refusing to give up its program to enrich uranium, which Iran says is
for peaceful purposes but the U.S. says is preparation for making
weapons.

Putin's trip will be scrutinized for changes in Russia's complex
position on Iran. Russia has been skeptical of more sanctions in the
United Nations Security Council and is building Iran's first nuclear
reactor.

But Moscow has delayed completion and urged Tehran to comply with
international controls on its program. An announcement by Putin during
his visit that it would be finished quickly would be seen as a gesture
toward the Iranians.

During his visit to Iran, Putin is to meet with President Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad and attend Tuesday's summit of Caspian Sea nations. He is
the first Kremlin leader to travel to Iran since Josef Stalin attended
the 1943 wartime summit with Winston Churchill and Franklin D.
Roosevelt.

Putin's trip would be important for Iran even if it yielded no
agreements. "It's a break in international isolation, a chance to show
that Iran is an important country," said Alexander Pikayev, a leading
expert on Iran with Russia's Institute for World Economy and
International relations.

Iranian media also emphasized the importance of Putin's trip. Iran's
state television said the visit would "show Russia's independence from
the United States."

European Union nations on Monday were considering more sanctions or
other measures against Iran, with a meeting of foreign ministers
planning to warn that Iran's time is running out.

Diplomats said EU governments were to warn Iran of "further
appropriate measures" if it fails to cooperate, notably new economic
and political sanctions that could include investment bans, or
scrapping export credit guarantees.

Britain's Foreign Secretary David Miliband said European trade to Iran
had already fallen "by about 37 percent in the year to May," signaling
that the EU was serious about punishing Iran.

"The EU is playing its part in signaling very clearly to the Iranian
regime that they need to abide by the successive U.N. Security Council
resolutions," Miliband told reporters.

Putin's statements came at the end of a distinctly chummy summit
between him and Merkel, who has been more willing than predecessor
Gerhard Schroeder to raise Russia's human rights record - but largely
skirted those issues in public at this meeting.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Milenko Kindl Cvrcko aalalalal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e77a1a8a31c450d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 7:26 am
From: Raul Endymion

Milenko Kindl

"We were patient and consistently looked for solutions and it looks
like we are finding them. The same has to be applied, we believe, in
the case of the Iranian nuclear program," Putin said.

"We can and must be patient and look for a way out. Can we do it
without having a dialogue with the Iranian leadership and people? I
think it's impossible, unlikely."

Iranian media also emphasized the importance of Putin's trip. Iran's
state television said the visit would "show Russia's independence from
the United States."

European Union nations on Monday were considering more sanctions or
other measures against Iran, with a meeting of foreign ministers
planning to warn that Iran's time is running out.

Britain's Foreign Secretary David Miliband said European trade to Iran
had already fallen "by about 37 percent in the year to May," signaling
that the EU was serious about punishing Iran.

"The EU is playing its part in signaling very clearly to the Iranian
regime that they need to abide by the successive U.N. Security Council
resolutions," Miliband told reporters.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Send international SMS text messages with Blitzplanet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bdffa6ae32cb5f2a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 7:53 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 8:01 am
From: "Otto Bahn"

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote

> >> > I never flush urinals.
>
> "HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote
> >> And never wash your smegma coated hands no doubt.
>
> "Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote...
> > Exactly how are you getting smegma on your hands?
>
> No one said I am.

But we can all read between the lines.

> And I don't handle your wiener so unlike you, my hands
> are clean.

Perhaps you have no penis. That would explain a lot.

> "Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote...
> > I don't think you're just peeing in front of that urinal...
>
> It's clear what you are thinking, and that tells us much about what is
> foremost on your mind.

We know what's foremost on your mind -- smegma.

> No go wash your hands... Smegma boy.

I get it. You enjoy being an asshole. You should wipe
more often.

--oTTo--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 9:29 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.
>

I agree...they Do look tacky. Maybe in the future they'll be down to 12
inches or so, in diameter.
The only dish I have is a tiny (smaller than a CD) one for my free
wireless internet from the corner flower shop. It sits on my a/c, facing
the backyard. Think I'll look for a Queen Anne style birdhouse to
enclose it. Hate to offend the squirrels in the backyard. They might
already be nauseated by this white, tacky-looking dish dish.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 9:53 am
From: George Grapman

Jon v Leipzig wrote:
> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>> them.
>>
>
> I agree...they Do look tacky. Maybe in the future they'll be down to 12
> inches or so, in diameter.
> The only dish I have is a tiny (smaller than a CD) one for my free
> wireless internet from the corner flower shop. It sits on my a/c, facing
> the backyard. Think I'll look for a Queen Anne style birdhouse to
> enclose it. Hate to offend the squirrels in the backyard. They might
> already be nauseated by this white, tacky-looking dish dish.

They are already down to 18-30 inches compared to 10-12 feet 20 years
ago. Back then the transmitters in the satellites were under 20 watts.
Now they are well over 100 watts.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:09 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Jon v Leipzig wrote:
>> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>>
>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>> them.
>>>
>>
>> I agree...they Do look tacky. Maybe in the future they'll be down
>> to 12 inches or so, in diameter.
>> The only dish I have is a tiny (smaller than a CD) one for my free
>> wireless internet from the corner flower shop. It sits on my a/c,
>> facing the backyard. Think I'll look for a Queen Anne style
>> birdhouse to enclose it. Hate to offend the squirrels in the
>> backyard. They might already be nauseated by this white,
>> tacky-looking dish dish.
>
> They are already down to 18-30 inches compared to 10-12 feet 20
> years ago. Back then the transmitters in the satellites were under 20
> watts. Now they are well over 100 watts.

The main reason for the big drop in the size of the dishes is the band used, not the power.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 10:34 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:11:03 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:

>In article <c%AQi.6197$lE2.1930@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, Jeanette Guire <jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
>>in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
>>(where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>
>>What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
>>microbial culture standpoint?
>>
>>Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>>refrigerated?
>
>I noted various responses to this thread, but my opinion is that it's
>the *spices* that will most likely cause a potential problem by
>introducing a suite of chemicals that microbes will find useful for
>growth. (As well as probably introducing a nice selection of
>bacterial spores to start the rot, so to speak. :-)
>
>Also, as others mentioned, bugs that may be able to metabolise
>pure olive oil probably require some moisture present to do their
>thing, and that would be provided by the vinegar.
>
>Further, if the pH of the final brew is higher than the magic figure
>(4.6?) then some common nasties will be able to grow in it.
>
>Cheers, Phred.

Consistant with the fact that mayonaise can be unrefrigerated, but
that once it is mixed into other foods the mixture can be deadly.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:20 am
From: "lee h"

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Consistant with the fact that mayonaise can be unrefrigerated, but
> that once it is mixed into other foods the mixture can be deadly.

It seems you've sampled my Ex's tuna salad. lol.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:23 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Daniel MacKay <daniel@bonmot.ca> wrote:

>> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.

> You're not listening.

You in spades.

> Either a container is sterile - that is, a can, or a jar with
> an airtight seal, and has been "processed" at a certain
> temperature for a certain number of minutes, or it is not.
> There is no such thing as "pretty close in practice."

You can keep asserting that till you are blue in the face if you like, changes nothing.

> Dressing and mayonnaise containers in the grocery store are not. They
> have cardboard seals, are in no way airtight, and have not been "processed."

And they are close enough to sterile for all practical purposes anyway.

> They *can't* be processed - you can't heat mayonnaise.

We aint talking about mayonnaise.

> Conversely, if you argue that a plastic jar with a cardboard seal

Its got a plastic top as well as the cardboard seal.

> is sufficient to preserve food, you should put up some fruits and
> vegetables that way and check back on them in a couple of weeks.

Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: flush da toilet with rain-water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d09a42bdb27b1164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 10:51 am
From: A Veteran

our local University has built a "green" bldg. it collects rain water to
flush the toilets. for at least 5 months in a very rainey North West.

--
when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
All problems look like nails.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 10:52 am
From: A Veteran

In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

> In article <13h0j9dss5h6d25@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff wrote:
> >Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> >
> >> larry wrote:
> >>
> >>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Just another note on liquid soaps in dollar stores: Not only is it
> >>>> cheaper than at the grocery (even if you are buying large refill
> >>>> containers), but you can get "ordinary" soap (i.e., not
> >>>> anti-bacterial). For people who think that using anti-bacterial soap
> >>>> all the time is a bad time, this is useful to know.
> >>>
> >>> Watch prices carefully at Dollar General. After their buyout, nothing
> >>> but another cashcow raid by KKR, they changed a lot of suppliers and
> >>> jacked up prices by about 30%!!!
> >>
> >> I don't even go to Dollar General or Family Dollar.
> >
> >There's a lot of absolute crap in some of these stores. I'd never buy
> >another CF bulb from one.
>
> I consider that the understatement of the month!
>
> In my experience, dollar store CFLs:
>
> * Consistently produce less light than claimed - sometimes 70% less.
>
> * Usually have an icy bluish white "daylight" color. Some in packages
> claiming "soft warm white light" have the icy bluish color.
>
> * If they are warm color, they usually have low color rendering index.
> Even most of the "daylight" ones have a color rendering index slightly
> lower than usual for CFLs.
>
> * Usually lack the FCC ID # that mains-powered CFLs with electronic
> ballasts are required to have.
>
> * Usually lack the UL listing that ballast-included CFLs normally have.
>
> * In my experience, have a high rate of malfunctioning, being DOA, and
> dying spectcularly.
>
> I only get them to say that I have actual experience when I say how bad
> they are.
>
> One thing that makes me think better of Dollar Tree is that I never saw
> any of these stool specimen CFLs there.
>
> >And I have seen dish soap that looked like
> >soap, but did not act like soap. Not frugal if it doesn't do the job.
>
> > Cheap products are often not. It's often hard to tell the value of
> >something by the packaging.
>
> Also, what about the products that are obviously inferior if you read
> the labels? Best example I can think of: Rubbing alcohol. The dollar
> store garbage is 50%, while rubbing alcohol anywhere else is normally 70%.
> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name when it
> was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete battery
> technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap lightweights that
> underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the usual now.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

our local hardware store has 'em for $.75

--
when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
All problems look like nails.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acomplia Acheter Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28918389ecbb2a11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:20 am
From: milis

Acomplia Acheter Online

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/fr.html

Acomplia (rimonabant) promet les avantages doubles pour les personnes
obèses et pour ceux qui souhaitent sérieusement stopper le tabagisme.
Crainte de beaucoup de gens de mettre plus de livres après le
tabagisme du cessation. De fumeurs crainte souvent de mettre plus de
livres une fois qu'elles cessent le tabagisme.
C'est les fumeurs principaux de raison redoutent et ils hésitent ainsi
dans la prise de décision à poursuivre le cessation de tabagisme.
Acomplia est efficace pour les personnes qui souhaitent perdre le
poids et stopper fumer en même temps.
Aucune merveille de plus en plus personnes ne font confiance à cette
médecine de merveille pour ses effets duels et lancent avec succès
leur campagne à la parole au revoir au tabagisme et demeurent minces
en même temps.

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/fr.html

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Monday, October 15, 2007

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