Frugal Living: Jul 14, 2007

Saturday, July 14, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Beijing Steam Buns Include Cardboard
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e02601866b003ee6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 9:29 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:20:57 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>> If you believe that the bun maker will go through all the trouble of
>> pulping and processing paper pulp to simulate rice flour you'll
>> believe anyhting.
>
>Uhhh...try to keep up. The cardboard is ground into the "meat" filling, not
>the buns themselves. And no, the items were being made neither for a "big
>restaurant" nor by a "small itinerant bun maker." They were being made by a
>company which obviously found they could get the same weight product at less
>cost by adding PAPER in place of MEAT.
>
>Your irrational commentary on these threads is simply making readers shake
>their heads and say "yep, that's the mentality right there that's convincing
>us Chinese products aren't safe."
>

Quote:
``You mean 60 percent cardboard? What is the other 40 percent?'' asks
the reporter. ``Fatty meat,'' the man replies.

The bun maker and his assistants then give a demonstration on how the
product is made.

Squares of cardboard picked from the ground are first soaked to a pulp
in a plastic basin of caustic soda - a chemical base commonly used in
manufacturing paper and soap - then chopped into tiny morsels with a
cleaver. Fatty pork and powdered seasoning are stirred in.

Soon, steaming servings of the buns appear on-screen. The reporter
takes a bite.
(end quote.)

Indeed I had not read the original report in detail. It was
ridiculous from the first paragraph. A rereading makes the story even
more ridiculous than my original impression.

Caustic soda is a very strong industrial alkali otherwise known as
lye. A common use is for stripping old dried paint. If you touch
even a dilute solution it reacts with the fat under your skin to make
soap. That's why lye feels soapy. Strong lye will burn through your
skin. One CSI TV episode even used this as a murder weapon - the
victim's drink container was filled with it and he took a swig while
walking down a subway station. His very public death was for dramatic
effect. Our CSI hero needed a lab test to ID the poison. Any person
who has worked with lye would have known what it is right away.

The "CCTV expose' " had the cook
[Squares of cardboard picked from the ground are first soaked to a
pulp in a plastic basin of caustic soda - a chemical base commonly
used in manufacturing paper and soap - then chopped into tiny morsels
with a cleaver. Fatty pork and powdered seasoning are stirred in.]

[WIKI: Many soaps are mixtures of sodium (soda ash) or potassium
(potash) salts of fatty acids which can be derived from oils or fats
by reacting them with an alkali (such as sodium hydroxide/caustic
soda/lye or potassium hydroxide) at 80 to 100 °C in a process known as
saponification.]

No rubber gloves? No other protection against the lye? He would have
looked leprous and freaked out anyone. He would have been in constant
agony too as the lye burns through his skin.

Our expose' cook would have made very soapy tasting fatty slurry.
Cooking does not alter or remove lye. It takes very little of it to
attack human tissue. The free lye left in the chopped mix would have
burned the mouth and throat of the bun eater.

Presumably the paper pulp was added to stretch the fatty meat. The
presumption will be that the pulp was digested/altered so that its no
longer identifiable as paper by taste, by feel or by appearance.

[Manufacture of Rayon] Steeping
http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/rayon.htm
The cellulose sheets are saturated with a solution of caustic soda (or
sodium hydroxide) and allowed to steep for enough time for the caustic
solution to penetrate the cellulose and convert some of it into "soda
cellulose", the sodium salt of cellulose. This is necessary to
facilitate controlled oxidation of the cellulose chains and the
ensuing reaction to form cellulose xanthate.

How you can blend a solution of fatty soap with intermediates in
making payon and pass that off as meat stuffing for making buns is a
tall yarn only you can swallow [and should].

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:40 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:20:57 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>
>Your irrational commentary on these threads is simply making readers shake
>their heads and say "yep, that's the mentality right there that's convincing
>us Chinese products aren't safe."
>
I've noticed this guy pimping Chinese this and Chinese that.
Which is perfectly okay for a Chinese national to do.
I'm a American nationalist myself.
But it appears he's a Canadian.
Irrational may be the least of his faults.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A/C working properly? Cost -> lower temp?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c37471a9403c0a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 9:36 am
From:

"BobK207" <rkazanjy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184384175.713615.71580@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 13, 7:55 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1184343031.040481.59140@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 13, 8:25 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:1184303763.933148.313540@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > On Jul 12, 6:19 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > > > >news:1184265544.952645.65630@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > On Jul 12, 9:04 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > > > > > >news:1184209989.119075.262940@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:08 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > > > > > > >
>news:1184167935.037388.79910@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >news:1184135206.664373.259730@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 10, 5:18 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > > >news:1184048699.959557.25410@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
> >
> > > > > > >news:1184023128.099280.148890@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember no references to actual post
content.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can at least read the thread and know the
> > > > difference
> > > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > > > > > > AM/PM. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know it takes HOURS of run time to get a
$320
> > > > electric
> > > > > > bill.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't!!!!!!!
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully
> > > > enough....I
> > > > > > > > merely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggested she use noon & midnight instead of
12pm
> > &
> > > > 12am
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > avoid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > confusion
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like it's so confusing. <rolleyes>
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if its so universally clear why are several
> > people
> > > > > > arguing
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it?
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon &
> > midnight;
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > point :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > o
> > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > That's why I never did argue about that "$320
electric
> > bill"
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over
12PM &
> > > > > > > > > > > 12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning
of
> > 12AM
> > > > &
> > > > > > 12PM.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon &
> > midnight
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > used.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry that you're confused with the facts..
> >
> > > > > > > > > > If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure
as
> > hell
> > > > > > can't
> > > > > > > > help
> > > > > > > > > > her!
> >
> > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not confused with the facts but your replies
> > often do
> > > > > > > > > confuse me because they just don't follow.........
> >
> > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you can't keep up with me... no wonder you
post
> > crap!
> >
> > > > > > > Keeping up with you is NO problem but is somewhat of study in
> > illogic
> >
> > > > > > > .....I'm waiting for you to tell me the "help" you provided to
the
> > OP
> > > > > > > and to accurately read & interpret my posts.
> >
> > > > > > > Most of your replies have been total "non sequiturs" or
highly
> > > > > > > selective editing / responses but then I realize you do what
you
> > can
> > > > > > > so I should cut you some slack.
> >
> > > > > > > oh, that's right, my apology....... here, in case you lost
the
> > link
> >
> > > > > > >www.dictionary.com

or if that's too difficult
> >
> > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org
> >
> > > > > > > keep studying (or maybe I should say, start studying) :)
> >
> > > > > > If you can't see where I'm helping the OP, that's your problem.
> >
> > > > > > If you can't understand what I post, maybe you should go back to
> > school.
> >
> > > > > > Oh that's right, you helped the OP by telling her to use
Midnight
> > and
> > > > > > Noon... LOL, she received better help after that!!!! LMAO
> >
> > > > > You're hopeless, I give up, you win.
> >
> > > > > but do bookmarkwww.dictionary.com....... you REALLY need it,
> >
> > > > > your posts will carry a little more weight if you use words
correctly,
> > > > > so practice
> >
> > > > > you know....... mute vs moot ...plural vs possessive form
> >
> > > > > speak & write like an uneducated dunce & that's what people think
you
> > > > > are :)
> >
> > > > Speaking from experience?
> >
> > > >>>>Speaking from experience?<<<<<
> >
> > > Actually yes....my experience of reading your posts :)
> >
> > > I hope you book markedwww.dictionary.com & will use it
> >
> > I hope you can help others by telling them the difference between AM and
PM.
> > LOL
>
> Kenny-
>
> You're not reading very carefully....I never told anyone the
> difference between AM & PM
>
> by that I assume you meant 12AM vs 12PM
>
> I merely suggested using noon & midnight......like most people do,
> like I'm sure you do
>
> I'd bet even you don't use 12PM or 12AM
>
> you use noon & midnight.....right?

12 AM, 12 PM, Noon and Midnight.....

Sure helped her get better replies, Eh Sherlock? LMAO

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 12:49 pm
From: BobK207

On Jul 14, 9:36 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1184384175.713615.71580@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 7:55 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1184343031.040481.59140@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On Jul 13, 8:25 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:1184303763.933148.313540@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > On Jul 12, 6:19 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:1184265544.952645.65630@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 12, 9:04 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > > >news:1184209989.119075.262940@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:08 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1184167935.037388.79910@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:1184135206.664373.259730@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 10, 5:18 am, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:1184048699.959557.25410@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in
> message
>
> > > > > > > >news:1184023128.099280.148890@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember no references to actual post
> content.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can at least read the thread and know the
> > > > > difference
> > > > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > > > > > > > AM/PM. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know it takes HOURS of run time to get a
> $320
> > > > > electric
> > > > > > > bill.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully
> > > > > enough....I
> > > > > > > > > merely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggested she use noon & midnight instead of
> 12pm
> > > &
> > > > > 12am
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > avoid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > confusion
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like it's so confusing. <rolleyes>
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if its so universally clear why are several
> > > people
> > > > > > > arguing
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon &
> > > midnight;
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > point :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > o
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > That's why I never did argue about that "$320
> electric
> > > bill"
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over
> 12PM &
> > > > > > > > > > > > 12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning
> of
> > > 12AM
> > > > > &
> > > > > > > 12PM.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon &
> > > midnight
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > used.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry that you're confused with the facts..
>
> > > > > > > > > > > If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure
> as
> > > hell
> > > > > > > can't
> > > > > > > > > help
> > > > > > > > > > > her!
>
> > > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not confused with the facts but your replies
> > > often do
> > > > > > > > > > confuse me because they just don't follow.........
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm sorry that you can't keep up with me... no wonder you
> post
> > > crap!
>
> > > > > > > > Keeping up with you is NO problem but is somewhat of study in
> > > illogic
>
> > > > > > > > .....I'm waiting for you to tell me the "help" you provided to
> the
> > > OP
> > > > > > > > and to accurately read & interpret my posts.
>
> > > > > > > > Most of your replies have been total "non sequiturs" or
> highly
> > > > > > > > selective editing / responses but then I realize you do what
> you
> > > can
> > > > > > > > so I should cut you some slack.
>
> > > > > > > > oh, that's right, my apology....... here, in case you lost
> the
> > > link
>
> > > > > > > >www.dictionary.com

or if that's too difficult
>
> > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org
>
> > > > > > > > keep studying (or maybe I should say, start studying) :)
>
> > > > > > > If you can't see where I'm helping the OP, that's your problem.
>
> > > > > > > If you can't understand what I post, maybe you should go back to
> > > school.
>
> > > > > > > Oh that's right, you helped the OP by telling her to use
> Midnight
> > > and
> > > > > > > Noon... LOL, she received better help after that!!!! LMAO
>
> > > > > > You're hopeless, I give up, you win.
>
> > > > > > but do bookmarkwww.dictionary.com....... you REALLY need it,
>
> > > > > > your posts will carry a little more weight if you use words
> correctly,
> > > > > > so practice
>
> > > > > > you know....... mute vs moot ...plural vs possessive form
>
> > > > > > speak & write like an uneducated dunce & that's what people think
> you
> > > > > > are :)
>
> > > > > Speaking from experience?
>
> > > > >>>>Speaking from experience?<<<<<
>
> > > > Actually yes....my experience of reading your posts :)
>
> > > > I hope you book markedwww.dictionary.com& will use it
>
> > > I hope you can help others by telling them the difference between AM and
> PM.
> > > LOL
>
> > Kenny-
>
> > You're not reading very carefully....I never told anyone the
> > difference between AM & PM
>
> > by that I assume you meant 12AM vs 12PM
>
> > I merely suggested using noon & midnight......like most people do,
> > like I'm sure you do
>
> > I'd bet even you don't use 12PM or 12AM
>
> > you use noon & midnight.....right?
>
> 12 AM, 12 PM, Noon and Midnight.....
>
> Sure helped her get better replies, Eh Sherlock? LMAO

you're still missing the point....her lack of good replies had nothing
to do with 12AM or 12PM
it had do with her crappy attitude & sloppy posts

I doubt anything could help her get better replies

she was clueless about how even to pose her questions or describe her
situation

& my suggesting she use noon & midnight was not towards the end of
getting her better replies ....

you actually use 12PM? I seriously doubt your veracity on this but
stranger things have happened

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:28 pm
From: clams casino

BobK207 wrote:

>
>
>you're still missing the point....her lack of good replies had nothing
>to do with 12AM or 12PM
>it had do with her crappy attitude & sloppy posts
>
>I doubt anything could help her get better replies
>
>she was clueless about how even to pose her questions or describe her
>situation
>
>& my suggesting she use noon & midnight was not towards the end of
>getting her better replies ....
>
>you actually use 12PM? I seriously doubt your veracity on this but
>stranger things have happened
>
>
>
>
>
Sloppy posts?

What's that about the kettle?

Hint - an occasional capital letter and/or any punctuation might help.

Oh, I see. You save them up and place them randomly so they can average
out.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:42 pm
From: BobK207

On Jul 14, 1:28 pm, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
wrote:
> BobK207 wrote:
>
> >you're still missing the point....her lack of good replies had nothing
> >to do with 12AM or 12PM
> >it had do with her crappy attitude & sloppy posts
>
> >I doubt anything could help her get better replies
>
> >she was clueless about how even to pose her questions or describe her
> >situation
>
> >& my suggesting she use noon & midnight was not towards the end of
> >getting her better replies ....
>
> >you actually use 12PM? I seriously doubt your veracity on this but
> >stranger things have happened
>
> Sloppy posts?
>
> What's that about the kettle?
>
> Hint - an occasional capital letter and/or any punctuation might help.
>
> Oh, I see. You save them up and place them randomly so they can average
> out.

I use white space in lieu of punctuation & to improve readability.

If its not working for you & you're having trouble, sorry about that..

But it looked like Kenny, et al were reading them just fine.

They were mostly short so I didn't think they'd be tough to parse.

I'll revert to a more traditional format per your comment.

Is that better?

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:59 pm
From: CJT

BobK207 wrote:

> On Jul 14, 1:28 pm, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>BobK207 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>you're still missing the point....her lack of good replies had nothing
>>>to do with 12AM or 12PM
>>>it had do with her crappy attitude & sloppy posts
>>
>>>I doubt anything could help her get better replies
>>
>>>she was clueless about how even to pose her questions or describe her
>>>situation
>>
>>>& my suggesting she use noon & midnight was not towards the end of
>>>getting her better replies ....
>>
>>>you actually use 12PM? I seriously doubt your veracity on this but
>>>stranger things have happened
>>
>>Sloppy posts?
>>
>>What's that about the kettle?
>>
>>Hint - an occasional capital letter and/or any punctuation might help.
>>
>>Oh, I see. You save them up and place them randomly so they can average
>>out.
>
>
> I use white space in lieu of punctuation & to improve readability.
>
> If its not working for you & you're having trouble, sorry about that..
^^^

>
> But it looked like Kenny, et al were reading them just fine.
>
> They were mostly short so I didn't think they'd be tough to parse.
>
> I'll revert to a more traditional format per your comment.
>
> Is that better?

almost :-)

>
>
>
>

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 2:10 pm
From:

"BobK207" <rkazanjy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184445729.575692.99630@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 14, 1:28 pm, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
> wrote:
> > BobK207 wrote:
> >
> > >you're still missing the point....her lack of good replies had nothing
> > >to do with 12AM or 12PM
> > >it had do with her crappy attitude & sloppy posts
> >
> > >I doubt anything could help her get better replies
> >
> > >she was clueless about how even to pose her questions or describe her
> > >situation
> >
> > >& my suggesting she use noon & midnight was not towards the end of
> > >getting her better replies ....
> >
> > >you actually use 12PM? I seriously doubt your veracity on this but
> > >stranger things have happened
> >
> > Sloppy posts?
> >
> > What's that about the kettle?
> >
> > Hint - an occasional capital letter and/or any punctuation might help.
> >
> > Oh, I see. You save them up and place them randomly so they can average
> > out.
>
> I use white space in lieu of punctuation & to improve readability.
>
> If its not working for you & you're having trouble, sorry about that..
>
> But it looked like Kenny, et al were reading them just fine.
>
> They were mostly short so I didn't think they'd be tough to parse.
>
> I'll revert to a more traditional format per your comment.
>
> Is that better?

No, you're still here!

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 2:18 pm
From: clams casino

BobK207 wrote:

>
>Is that better?
>
>
>
>
>
>
It's just ironic that you were beating up on cari_r about "sloppy posts".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal way to get money from Do Not Call Law violators
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6508a62b831eed5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 10:32 am
From: larry

lynn wrote:

> On Jul 7, 12:10 am, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> I file a complaint with the FTC but NOTHING HAPPENS. Why am I not
> surprised.
>

The dnc complaints to FTC ARE effective, they don't handle
the violations individually. FTC go after the big fish that
have money and thumb their nose at the FTC. It can take a
year to document thousands of violations, but then FTC
assess hundreds of thousands dollars in fines. Business
news report several cases every year where FTC either gets
the money or shuts them down. FTC effectiveness depends on
list member reports, putting violators on the FTC radar.

-larry / dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How can I safely buy from a private party online???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3111f57b5bc48c8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 10:45 am
From: larry

Don K wrote:

> "sandy" <fossilnut@isp.com> wrote in message
> news:1184420435.496687.215510@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I posted a "Want to Buy" ad on our local Craigslist and got an Email
>>from someone in another state who had what I was looking for. It was
>>a little older than what I might want but the price was reasonable and
>>I'd like to buy it. (He's agreeable to sending it). Is there anyway
>>to make sure this isn't a scam and to transfer money safely??? He
>>sounds OK and has sent me pictures of the item. Price is just over
>>$300.
>>
>>Any suggestions???
>
>
> Nothing is 100% safe, but if it were me and I wanted it badly enough,
> I'd prefer to drive a reasonable distance to pick it up in person.
>
> An alternative would be to use something like Paypal, but you should
> expect to have to read over several pages of legalese lingo to understand
> exactly what, if any, protection that would offer you.
>
> Don
>
we are lucky to have city.forsale here, and that is always a
face-to-face deal. I thought that was the intent of Craigs
list too? Have had many good deals this way, some were
meetings at a halfway point along a freeway. Met a nice
group of people too.

But as always, there can be a bad apple in the bunch. I
wouldn't meet someone at 1AM in a bad part of town to buy a
car for cash! We had a 20 year old killed a few months ago
doing just that.

-larry

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:23 am
From: Abe

>>>I posted a "Want to Buy" ad on our local Craigslist and got an Email
>>>from someone in another state who had what I was looking for. It was
>>>a little older than what I might want but the price was reasonable and
>>>I'd like to buy it. (He's agreeable to sending it). Is there anyway
>>>to make sure this isn't a scam and to transfer money safely??? He
>>>sounds OK and has sent me pictures of the item. Price is just over
>>>$300.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions???
>>
>>
>> Nothing is 100% safe, but if it were me and I wanted it badly enough,
>> I'd prefer to drive a reasonable distance to pick it up in person.
>>
>we are lucky to have city.forsale here, and that is always a
>face-to-face deal. I thought that was the intent of Craigs
>list too? Have had many good deals this way, some were
>meetings at a halfway point along a freeway. Met a nice
>group of people too.

These people are right. Craigslist even warns you, boldly, that you
should only do deals face-to-face for cash.

If you don't follow that advice, your loss, should it occur, will be
your own fault. Don't say you haven't been warned.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sandy <fossilnut@isp.com> wrote:

> I posted a "Want to Buy" ad on our local Craigslist and got an Email
> from someone in another state who had what I was looking for. It was
> a little older than what I might want but the price was reasonable and
> I'd like to buy it. (He's agreeable to sending it). Is there anyway
> to make sure this isn't a scam and to transfer money safely???

Not really. Thats where the ebay feedback system works much better, when it isnt
practical to show up in person and check the item before handing over the money.

> He sounds OK and has sent me pictures of the item. Price is just over $300.

> Any suggestions???

Get it using ebay instead.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 12:13 pm
From: clams casino

Don K wrote:

>"sandy" <fossilnut@isp.com> wrote in message
>news:1184420435.496687.215510@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>I posted a "Want to Buy" ad on our local Craigslist and got an Email
>>from someone in another state who had what I was looking for. It was
>>a little older than what I might want but the price was reasonable and
>>I'd like to buy it. (He's agreeable to sending it). Is there anyway
>>to make sure this isn't a scam and to transfer money safely??? He
>>sounds OK and has sent me pictures of the item. Price is just over
>>$300.
>>
>>Any suggestions???
>>
>>
>
>Nothing is 100% safe, but if it were me and I wanted it badly enough,
>I'd prefer to drive a reasonable distance to pick it up in person.
>
>An alternative would be to use something like Paypal, but you should
>expect to have to read over several pages of legalese lingo to understand
>exactly what, if any, protection that would offer you.
>
>Don
>
>
>
>
and only pay Payal via credit card, otherwise it's unlikely Paypal will
provide any refund should the transaction go bad.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Avoiding Chinese products and/or ingredients
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ad70fc5b398703d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:17 am
From: Ken Knecht

I noticed that it is impossible often to eliminate Chinese products,
should one so wish, from your purchases because often the package says
"Distributed by" but not "Manufactured by" or "Imported from". The stuff
distributed could originate anywhere.

FWIW

--
Untie the two knots to email me

Every silver lining has a cloud.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Senator Barbara Boxer says we're close to dictatorship & supports
impeachment.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3967ced946034450?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:22 am
From: The Wolf With the Red Roses

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 07:08:20 -0700, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote something wonderfully witty:

>Al E. Gator wrote:
>> "The Wolf With the Red Roses" <after-dark-arms@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:5a5f93dii3k6dveg5m1pbf2s2u1tp0umrr@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:01:47 -0700, Useful Info <useful_inf@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote something wonderfully witty:
>>>
>>> Yeah, let's impeach Barbara!
>>>
>> let's ??
>>
>>
>> you and which other faggot hillbilly Nazis have the balls
>>
>>
> No member of congress has ever been impeached,no less convicted in a
>senate trial and there is no need as a majority of either house can
>expel a member of that house. Of course, unlike impeachment, they can
>still run for their old seat.
>
Gee that was a slightly better answer then Hillbilly Nazi.

However, just because its never been done, is no reason not to try.

How about impeaching the entire lot of em unmass? Give good old Cindy
Shitcan the seat then sit back and poke fun at her as she once again
flounders about. After all it is the great American past time!

"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: a point about China's problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c328870180227d9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

max <betatron@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I found a nice article about one guy's experience with
> Chinese manufacturing on Boing Boing yesterday.

> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/13/bunnie_huangs_blogse.html

> Tocsin, klaxon, harbinger --- whatever one wants to call
> it, the implications for our future are clear, and scary.

> [i've re-written the following about 6 times, striving for
> succinctness in erudition and just can't get it right, so:]

> Lesson: America is totally fucked, because the Chinese
> worker works harder than the American worker.

Its MUCH more complicated than that, essentially because there
are plenty of jobs that dont work with the worker back in china.

Pizzas are a tad cold when produced in china.

> It also makes me curious about the Chumby.
> http://www.google.com/search?&q=chumby

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 11:49 am
From: "Rod Speed"

max <betatron@earthlink.net> wrote

> This isn't rocket science, but on the other hand,
> most people aren't rocket scientists either, so...

> This whole China Poison Train dustup is a bit
> of a double edged sword, after a fashion.

> On the one hand, the international community is filled with a
> mix of shadenfreude and horror at the revelations of the utterly
> unsatisfactory practices of *some* Chinese food manufacturers, and
> by extension, non food manufacturers. "We" find our dismissals of
> Chinese products as worthless cheap crap vindicated on a daily basis.

> The Cheap Crap criticism has been almost the last buttress we have
> against Chinese products -- you can by chinese junk, or you can buy
> good (American) products.

You often cant on that last anymore.

> The net effect of the current dustup will be a Darwinian
> improvement of quality of Chinese products, and this
> will further pressure American manufacturers, who
> still won't be able to compete on a labor cost basis.

> Remember, we used to dismiss Japanese products with
> almost exactly the same criticisms in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Nope, we didnt see the same level of deliberate use
of dangerous substitutes like with the toothpaste.

> The next five years are likely to see a quantum leap in aggregate Chinese quality.

Doesnt mean that we wont see the same behavious by the dregs tho.

> We already have some damn fine Chinese made products on the market,

Yes, particularly from Taiwan.

> and the number is about to get significantly bigger.

We'll see...

> The Chinese should improve their product safety and quality, and
> we will be fools if we think that won't happen, and bigger fools if we
> don't forsee the long range consequences to our balance of trade.

And the effect on the prices of what we buy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Scam vs. Spam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/70c5488d94b4b421?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 12:15 pm
From: clams casino

D. wrote:

>spam snipped
>

Why not spam your site elsewhere?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My daughter, Isabelle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/160a63a99e05ee47?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 12:58 pm
From: Scott en Aztlán

Timo.Walton@gmail.com said in misc.consumers.frugal-living:

>Hello dear people.. My name is Timothy Walton. I am from Birmingham
>and want you to help to my daughter. Her name is Isabelle and she is
>sick.

I'd have an upset tummy, too, if my daddy was a FUCKING SPAMMER...
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 12:59 pm
From: Scott en Aztlán

Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> said in
misc.consumers.frugal-living:

>Hello dear people.
>
>My name is Edna Speed. I am from Australia.
>
>My son Rod is in serious need of a spanking. Please send money
>for a professional dominatrix.

No, but I'll gladly chip in to have him whacked. :)
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:04 pm
From: Just A User

Timo.Walton@gmail.com wrote:

> She needs some expensive medicine, which costs 20000 euro.. But I
> haven't enough money...

My advice: Get a real job.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:29 pm
From: clams casino

Scott en Aztlán wrote:

>Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> said in
>misc.consumers.frugal-living:
>
>
>
>>Hello dear people.
>>
>>My name is Edna Speed. I am from Australia.
>>
>>My son Rod is in serious need of a spanking. Please send money
>>for a professional dominatrix.
>>
>>
>
>No, but I'll gladly chip in to have him whacked. :)
>
>

If you take Paypal, I'll gladly contribute.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I found a great little online dollar store!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b4c785e73abf3a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:26 pm
From: daisysdeals@mydollarshop.com

If you really want to save money, you have to know where to look
right? There's a little bit of everything here and most are only
priced at $1 !! I started as a shopper looking for bargains on
everything I needed BEFORE heading the big stores and I found this
site, now I own it! See for youself, bargain prices!

http://daisysdeals.mydollarshop.com

Thanks for looking!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alive and Rare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05fe185bc3824a01?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 14 2007 1:57 pm
From: Hostel

Alive and Rare
http://www.geocities.com/cd11cd/HELP.html
http://cdtrade.netfirms.com/CDBOOT.htm
http://cdtrade.netfirms.com/MBCT.htm

==============================================================================

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Saturday, July 14, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest