Frugal Living: Oct 10, 2008

Friday, October 10, 2008

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Basic advice for an oven bake element house fire (GE JBP24B0B4WH)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f61775d3cbf26100?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:54 pm
From: Donna Ohl

On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:32:56 GMT, NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> Call the Repair Clinic guy at 800-269-2609 instead.
> He's a lot more friendly.

Hi NoSpam,

Actually, I called the numbers that Crumb Bum gave us and GE, after about a
half hour of bouncing around, wrote up a work ticket for me and kindly
shipped the element at an 80% discount and they even dropped the shipping.

The only thing I had to pay full on was the tax (which for California is
over 8%).

The new genuine GE element should arrive soon from UPS at a total cost of
about $38 off my credit card.

So, even though Crumb Bum must have been under the weather that day, he
helped me get the parts for a great price (I think).

BTW, the GE parts representative kept touting "genuine GE" but I wonder if
all the parts are the same. I'll bet they are.

Anyone know which brand of oven parts is any better or worse than the
others?

Donna

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 1:25 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 10, 2:54 am, Donna Ohl <donna....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:32:56 GMT, NoSpamFo...@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> > Call the Repair Clinic guy at 800-269-2609 instead.
> > He's a lot more friendly.
>
> Hi NoSpam,
>
> Actually, I called the numbers that Crumb Bum gave us and GE, after about a
> half hour of bouncing around, wrote up a work ticket for me and kindly
> shipped the element at an 80% discount and they even dropped the shipping.
>
> The only thing I had to pay full on was the tax (which for California is
> over 8%).
>
> The new genuine GE element should arrive soon from UPS at a total cost of
> about $38 off my credit card.
>
> So, even though Crumb Bum must have been under the weather that day, he
> helped me get the parts for a great price (I think).
>
> BTW, the GE parts representative kept touting "genuine GE" but I wonder if
> all the parts are the same. I'll bet they are.
>
> Anyone know which brand of oven parts is any better or worse than the
> others?
>
> Donna

GE has never been the same since Ronny quit advertising for them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new hybrid batteries and overcharging
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d32953a33eed58b1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 1:09 am
From: "Mark Dunn"

We have 240V which takes it from silly to mad.
"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:34d6c36f-4b2c-4011-87e2-1cff9d31228e@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 9, 1:38 am, E Z Peaces <c...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> >
> > A big killer of nickel cells is internal salts. They allow electrical
> > leakage so a cell won't hold a charge long and eventually can't be
> > charged at all. These deposits increase during trickle or C/10 charging
> > but apparently not with fast charging.
>
> There are ways to burn off those salts. I suppose it might be done
> with a well designed apparatus to gain a bit more life from a dead
> cell, but not economically practical. For emergency purposes or as an
> experiment, one can "tickle" the cell with a high voltage. I have even
> used 120VAC from the wall socket. This is not for the feint of heart
> and I would not advise even experimenting without proper eye and other
> protection. A 12VDC battery applied to a 1.5VDC cell might be held
> for about a second and no more.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Financial gurus Daryl Bradford Smith and guest Muhammad Rafeeq talk
about the financial mess
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c492695adc551dd?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 1:52 am
From: tg

Wednesday 8th October
The French Connection with guest Muhammad Rafeeq

Part 1
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/CII.2008.10.08.Wed.1of2.Rafeeq.mp3

Part 2 (12 mb)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/CII.2008.10.08.Wed.2of2.Rafeeq.mp3

http://www.iamthewitness.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VIDEO: "The Money Masters" (3 hr) The whole gangrened financial system
explained.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/871a133e902485dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 3:23 am
From: "judicial-inc.biz"

This film is the one must see documentary. WATCH IT! Don't allow
yourself to go any further in ignorance.

Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

Torrent: http://isohunt.com/download/15794860/money+masters.torrent

The answer to all our financial problems, as given by Thomas
Jefferson: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control
the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the
banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the
people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the
continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken
from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly
belongs." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing
less than to create a world system of financial control in private
hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the
economy of the world as a whole...Their secret is that they have
annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to
create the world's money..."

THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary
that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules
our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure
has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and
other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking
practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the
secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to
accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of
England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned
"central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation,
not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three
centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has
fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers.

Explanation of Contents:

The Problem
The Money Changers
Roman Empire
The Goldsmiths of Medieval England
Tally Sticks
The Bank of England
The Rise of the Rothschilds
The American Revolution
The Bank of North America
The Constitutional Convention
First Bank of the U.S.
Napoleon's Rise to Power
Death of the First Bank of the U.S. / War of 1812
Waterloo
Second Bank of the U.S.
Andrew Jackson
Fort Knox
World Central Bank

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Video-PhilosophyOfZionismAndIsrael.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 4:33 am
From: clams_casino

judicial-inc.biz wrote:

>This film is the one must see documentary. WATCH IT! Don't allow
>yourself to go any further in ignorance.
>

Only a fool would chance connecting with a mutiposted spam posted via
googlemail through google groups.

It's a trifecta for scam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 10 genuine methods of earning money immediately.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bae888c492f981a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 4:47 am
From: madhurimaniknepal

Top 10 genuine methods of earning money immediately.
Start making money online in less than five minutes by visiting
http://www.how-to-make-money-online.netfirms.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best GPS Units For Less Than $200!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4874b2abe080dcd4?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 5:04 am
From: drishaq

There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200. Let's take a
look at a few of the best ones…
http://gadgetreviews.co.cc/Best_GPS_Units_For_Less_Than__200_.htm

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 1:20 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 10, 8:04 am, drishaq <drishaqaz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200.

I liked it more when they were $300 and I could say I saved $300 by
not buying one. I know they help some people traveling or in the
woods, but I always try to know where I am at.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 1:43 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:20:09 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 10, 8:04 am, drishaq <drishaqaz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200.
>
>I liked it more when they were $300 and I could say I saved $300 by
>not buying one. I know they help some people traveling or in the
>woods, but I always try to know where I am at.

If they get to 20 bucks, I might get one. But only if I get a job
delivering pizzas.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 2:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote
> drishaq <drishaqaz...@gmail.com> wrote

>> There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200.

> I liked it more when they were $300 and I could say I saved $300 by not buying one.

More fool you.

> I know they help some people traveling or in the woods,

They're a hell of a lot more useful than just that.

> but I always try to know where I am at.

That aint the reason for them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Enormous amount webcams womans showing groupsex. Free
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f154b7500ffd1bab?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 6:34 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap isolation against freezing pipes in winter? Have a question, guys.
..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc7a45c5d21ff98?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 7:11 am
From: GeneCook2008@gmail.com

Hi guys,

I checked the prices of foil bag house isolation recently in stores
and found them rather pricey.

I was thinking of stuffing newspapers in plastic bags and taping it in
the inside of the house on cold walls in order to isolate my home that
way. Did anybody of you do that in the past? Did it work? Did you had
an effective defense against freezing pipes?

How about the toilet tank? Any ideas to protect it from freezing?

Thanks in advance,

Gene

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 10:51 am
From: Ron Peterson

On Oct 10, 9:11 am, GeneCook2...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was thinking of stuffing newspapers in plastic bags and taping it in
> the inside of the house on cold walls in order to isolate my home that
> way. Did anybody of you do that in the past? Did it work? Did you had
> an effective defense against freezing pipes?

There is heat tape which gets wrapped around your lines and when
plugged in keeps your pipes from freezing.

--
Ron

==============================================================================
TOPIC: getting cats spayed and neutered
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/291bfc820205c6fb?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 7:42 am
From: Bebe

On Oct 9, 5:40 pm, Marsha <m...@xeb.net> wrote:
> Vic Smith wrote:
> > My 12 year-old dog is almost unable to walk with arthritis and muscle
> > loss, and going soft in the head. Have to put her down real soon.
> > If I was in the country I'd shoot her and bury her myself, but I think
> > the vet doing it is going to cost me a couple hundred bucks.
> > Anybody have experience with this?
>
> > --Vic
>
> Have you called around? It shouldn't cost you anywhere near that. My
> 24-year-old cat, whose kidneys gave out, was put down last year and my
> regular vet only charged 75.00. Worth every penny and more, to me. It
> took about half an hour, much longer than usual, because her heart just
> wouldn't stop beating. Two more injections later, she finally gave up.
> She always was a fighter.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

Our local Humane Society will euthanize an owned animal free of charge
- they do ask to make a contribution of whatever you can afford. You
can stay with your animal during the procedure if you wish to, and
take the remains with you, if you wish to. I wish more people would
support and utilize their local shelters - most depend on donations to
stay open & operate.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Start earning money online on Holy Durga puja
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e645b9e025da844c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 8:02 am
From: madhurimaniknepal

Start earning money online on Holy Durga puja
Start making money online in less than five minutes by visiting
http://www.how-to-make-money-online.netfirms.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: KFC 9.99 bucket
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5651e6f0a42596cd?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 8:33 am
From: Seerialmom

On Oct 8, 8:54 pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> How much would the raw chicken cost you at regular supermarket
> prices? At sale prices? Assume you cook regularly and have all the
> other stuff necessary for fried chicken so their cost is minor.

I tend to roll my eyes at that commercial. Yes, if you had to buy all
the ingredients from scratch i.e. bag of flour, spices, baking
powder, bottle of oil, chicken, cabbage, carrots, potatoes, coleslaw
dressing (bottled or ingredients) corn cobs, it likely would exceed
$10. The same is true for most other fast foods. The other part of
that commercial says you can't do it because you wouldn't know what to
buy for the 11 secret spices.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 11:28 am
From: "Dimitri"

"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76ae35d1-ba4b-44ea-a69c-7f4d95d39be8@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> How much would the raw chicken cost you at regular supermarket
> prices? At sale prices? Assume you cook regularly and have all the
> other stuff necessary for fried chicken so their cost is minor.

It's Bullshit ad on TV.

It's like saying to buy a gallon of gas you need to buy a Porsche.

DUH.

Dimitri

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Benefits of frugality?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9afc6b52c0d2d5fb?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 10:14 am
From: Dennis

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 23:52:50 -0700 (PDT), phil scott
<phil@philscott.net> wrote:

>On Oct 9, 4:00 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The Dow is about where it was 5 1/2 years ago. I didn't feel
>> desperately broke then, either.
>>
>> I guess we'll see.
>>
>
>the dow is way *below where it was 5 years ago... its in the 1995
>range if you figure the devalued dollar... average about 10 pct a year
>real inflation over the last 15 years... about 20 pct a year now.
>
>Bread was 2 dollars a loaf then or less. 1.25 or so...now its 5
>dollars
>to stay even the dow would have to be at 20 or 30,000
>
>
>the govts cpi is bogus.

Real engineers don't pull numbers out of their ass.

Here's a real number: we mostly bake our own bread, but a couple weeks
ago I bought a loaf of store bread for US$1.50 (Orowheat multigrain).

But hey, I'll play along anyway. In 1995, I was in the middle of a
two year vacation/LOA. I was developing 30 acres in the country
(bought with cash) in preparation for building our new 3200 sf home in
1996 (built with no mortgage). I didn't feel all that broke then,
either.

Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 11:31 am
From: Derald

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>more?
I'm with you: No debts, few recurring expenses, veggies in the
garden, few "wants", little-to-no sympathy. Anticipate only three large
(for me) cash outlays for the remainder of '08 and one of those is ad
valorem taxes. Been out of stocks for almost a year; living on SS (hey,
I'm just gettin' my money back), savings interest, and loan repayment
interest (knock on wood-grain); no wage-slave "retirement" account (I'm
a non-believer). Congressionally induced short-term inflation might be a
problem; don't want to have to draw down principal in savings or
brokerage accounts but sure-as-hell don't want to "work"!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 10:30 am
From: phil scott

On Oct 10, 10:14 am, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 23:52:50 -0700 (PDT), phil scott
>
>
>
>
>
> <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> >On Oct 9, 4:00 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> The Dow is about where it was 5 1/2 years ago. I didn't feel
> >> desperately broke then, either.
>
> >> I guess we'll see.
>
> >the dow is way *below where it was 5 years ago... its in the 1995
> >range if you figure the devalued dollar... average about 10 pct a year
> >real inflation over the last 15 years... about 20 pct a year now.
>
> >Bread was 2 dollars a loaf then or less. 1.25 or so...now its 5
> >dollars
> >to stay even the dow would have to be at 20 or 30,000
>
> >the govts cpi is bogus.
>
> Real engineers don't pull numbers out of their ass.
>
> Here's a real number: we mostly bake our own bread, but a couple weeks
> ago I bought a loaf of store bread for US$1.50 (Orowheat multigrain).
>
> But hey, I'll play along anyway. In 1995, I was in the middle of a
> two year vacation/LOA. I was developing 30 acres in the country
> (bought with cash) in preparation for building our new 3200 sf home in
> 1996 (built with no mortgage). I didn't feel all that broke then,
> either.
>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
> my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I will try to be polite.... your points are not ill taken either.

However the tone suggests error and fault, justified by your own
obvious success, brains and personal capability... and not a bit of
that is bogus... these characteristics suceed... you have pointed that
out...and you are way more than 100% correct....and well documented
with your 1.50 loaf of bread etc.

However, when discussing the macro issues..that is that the nation has
not ended up with a population capable at these levels, and bread that
used to sell for 1.50 is now selling at 5 dollars comonly...and
given one is discussing this macro as it is what drives the nation....
individual exceptions do not.

the macro drives the nation...it is the macro that is relevant...and
yes indeed. parsing the numbers to accuracy would be nice, but given
all the spin, bogus cpi figures and complexties of economics, not
possible...and certainly not practial in a post.

but the general observations can be commented on, and the sea change
can be noted....even as the tide is going out...and even as the
occasional breaker washes high onto the shore.. you see?

the exceptions are not the drivers, and are not the relevant issue as
regards these national sea changes...

nice brag though, you earned it. I wish you well in the coming years
and hope you are able to pass those values on to others.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My prognosis... what is real 'value' and what drives recovery
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c1bfa4edb0b27b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 10:17 am
From: phil scott

we are habituated to think in terms of money, currency.. denominated
value..and for good reason, its all we have to trade with..so we get
value confused with these denominations.... and we are forced to
trade and do business in these denominations...

so we say things like 'what is the value of a stock' and we mean in
terms of the bogus currency.

its difficult to even frame real value in this situation... and yes
real value will indeed tank as an economy dependent on currency goes
into collapse... no business.... the factory is not just worthless it
becomes a liability.

We have seen a spectacular solution though in Brazil recently... as
factorys were closing the employees offered to take them over... they
did...and with the rip off management gone, and able to barter for
wages and goods etc... brazil recovered... someone posted links to
that last week.

which takes us to the issue of what IS real value:

For an individual it is his skill set, intelligence and discipline in
taking care of his base of production..his brain and body..his
health...and living in a way that he cant be taxed to total ruins by a
desperate and collapsing govt.... that is not to say the approach
is a cake walk. it isnt. it requires brains, and working...smart
working..not for a starvation wage paid by some slug who refuses to
work.

those willing to work can make it in a culture with a built up
infrastructure such as our own, not in the cities necessarily, but
they sure can in the smaller towns.....

taking a look at the net real tax base...its well over 80% in the USA
on the middle class...did you know that?

of course not, we are told its 15% state 20% federal... after lying
and fudging the tax is only half that, or less.....
sorry....bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.... incorrecto.

You are paying 5x for food, medical care, gas, and services in the US
as compared to less governed countries because we *all pay taxes..and
hidden taxes, that drives all prices to these certifiably higher
figures...a plumber charging you 80 dollars an hour would be 20
dollars without his need to pay his doctor 500 dollars an hour...
these costs compound,

driving these prices at the base is govt bloat and a corrupt finanical
over class.... when that evaporates as it did in Brasil, there is a
massive resurgence....but only after govt collapses, dissapears by 80%
or more....and ceases its blood sucking....

(the nation has lost is premier condition as the worlds only large
scale industrial manufacturer..that bailed us out of the great
depression (and war to ignite it)....thats vastly diminished now, and
the rest of the world is now our industrialized competition.)....

No nation in the history of the earth has ever done anything but age
(260 years for most give or take just a few years) go corrupt, start
wars in an attempt to survive, then get counter attacked... then
die. Not a single exception... they reboot a generation or two
later in many cases though... whole different set of rules.

the reboot lasts about 260 years.... the USA is headed into its crash/
burn and reboot cycle...

However, given our killer infrastructure it should not take the
historic usual generation or two of starvation to dig out... I predict
maybe 5 years of tough times (but fed well because of our factory
farms)... then only 10 to 20 years to restablish a somewhat lush
economy... not bad.. except for the lowest economic class, those are
always screwed regardless.. a natural phenomena...some are simply
unable..or abused to oblivion etc.

Recent precidents are the rebooted USSR, that went fast even with less
infrastructure than we have in the US..and japan..with killer
industrial infrastructure but need to import raw materials, fuel and
food massively..still their reboot while 10 years under way, has not
led to total ruin.

Phil scott

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 12:14 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

> we are habituated to think in terms of money, currency.. denominated
> value..and for good reason, its all we have to trade with..

No it isnt. Plenty have done swaps for millennia and some still do.

> so we get value confused with these denominations....

Nope.

> and we are forced to trade and do business in these denominations...

> so we say things like 'what is the value of a stock'
> and we mean in terms of the bogus currency.

Easy to toss in the word bogus.

> its difficult to even frame real value in this situation... and yes real value
> will indeed tank as an economy dependent on currency goes into collapse...
> no business.... the factory is not just worthless it becomes a liability.

More mindless silly stuff.

> We have seen a spectacular solution though in Brazil recently...
> as factorys were closing the employees offered to take them over...

They didnt offer, they just did it.

> they did...and with the rip off management gone, and able
> to barter for wages and goods etc... brazil recovered...

That wasnt the reason brazil recovered.

> someone posted links to that last week.

> which takes us to the issue of what IS real value:

No such animal.

> For an individual it is his skill set, intelligence and discipline
> in taking care of his base of production..his brain and body..
> his health...and living in a way that he cant be taxed to total
> ruins by a desperate and collapsing govt....

The alternate govts are actually proposing tax CUTS.

> that is not to say the approach is a cake walk. it isnt.
> it requires brains, and working...smart working..

And isnt even possible for most.

> not for a starvation wage paid by some slug who refuses to work.

Many who need your services wont have anything to pay for them with, even by barter.

> those willing to work can make it in a culture with a built up infrastructure such
> as our own, not in the cities necessarily, but they sure can in the smaller towns.....

Until even those end up in very deep shit and have to do without your services.

> taking a look at the net real tax base...its well over 80%
> in the USA on the middle class...did you know that?

Depends entirely on what you call the middle class. Thats a bare faced lie with the real middle class.

> of course not, we are told its 15% state 20% federal...
> after lying and fudging the tax is only half that, or less.....
> sorry....bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.... incorrecto.

Yours is the bare faced lie.

> You are paying 5x for food, medical care, gas, and
> services in the US as compared to less governed countries

There's fuck all of those, and not one modern first or second world country.

> because we *all pay taxes..and hidden taxes, that drives all
> prices to these certifiably higher figures...a plumber charging
> you 80 dollars an hour would be 20 dollars without his need
> to pay his doctor 500 dollars an hour... these costs compound,

Many doctors get paid less than many plumbers per hour.

> driving these prices at the base is govt bloat

Corse there is never any bloat in the private sector, eh ?

> and a corrupt finanical over class.... when that evaporates as it did in Brasil,

No it didnt.

> there is a massive resurgence....

No there wasnt.

> but only after govt collapses, dissapears by 80% or more....

Didnt happen.

> and ceases its blood sucking....

And that in spades.

> (the nation has lost is premier condition as the worlds only large scale industrial manufacturer..

That was never ever the case.

> that bailed us out of the great depression

No it didnt.

> (and war to ignite it)....thats vastly diminished now,

No it isnt. Its still true of PC software, movies, TV programs, music etc etc etc.

> and the rest of the world is now our industrialized competition.)....

It always was. Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed where the industrial revolution happened.

Thats what paid for much of the industrialization of the US initially.

> No nation in the history of the earth has ever done anything
> but age (260 years for most give or take just a few years)

More than just a few years.

> go corrupt, start wars in an attempt to survive, then get counter attacked... then die.

Plenty have just faded away.

> Not a single exception...

Pig ignorant lie.

> they reboot a generation or two later in many cases though... whole different set of rules.

> the reboot lasts about 260 years.... the USA is headed into its crash/burn and reboot cycle...

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

The same stupid claim was made during the great depression too,
and the US went on to completely dominate the world after that.

Plenty of those making that stupid claim themselves imploded
very spectacularly indeed, and had to be bailed out by the US too.

> However, given our killer infrastructure it should not take
> the historic usual generation or two of starvation to dig out...

That hardly ever happened.

> I predict maybe 5 years of tough times (but fed well because of our factory
> farms)... then only 10 to 20 years to restablish a somewhat lush economy...

Bet ti wont take anything like that.

> not bad.. except for the lowest economic class, those are always screwed regardless..

Wrong again now that we invented welfare.

> a natural phenomena...some are simply unable..or abused to oblivion etc.

And some just chose to hang themselves etc.

> Recent precidents are the rebooted USSR, that went fast even with
> less infrastructure than we have in the US..and japan..with killer industrial
> infrastructure but need to import raw materials, fuel and food massively..
> still their reboot while 10 years under way, has not led to total ruin.

No one ever saw total ruin, even Rome didnt.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: -google_groups- Re: Should I renew my AIG auto insurance policy or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b89a5d081044ad3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 11:31 am
From: Derald

>> Ummmmm, it was TEN of their top INDEPENDENT agents who were at this
>> retreat. A retreat that was planned long before the shit hit the fan.

>If you'd already planned a birthday party, and the person died a week or
>so b4 the planned day, would you still go ahead with the party
If you believe your example to be analagous, then I hope that you
are not young enough to represent America's "future".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: YARD WORK AS VIEWED FROM HEAVEN
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/49b626bb637d1829?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 10 2008 5:49 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

YARD WORK AS VIEWED FROM HEAVEN
(Overheard in a conversation between God and St. Francis)

God: "Francis, you know all about gardens and nature; what in the world is
going on down there in the U.S.? What happened to the dandelions, violets,
thistles and the stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect no-maintenance
garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought, and
multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracts
butterflies, honeybees, and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast
garden of color by now. All I see are patches of green."

St. Francis: "It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. They are called the
Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers 'weeds' and went to great
lengths to kill them and replace them with grass."

God: "Grass? But it is so boring, it's not colorful. It doesn't attract
butterflies, bees or birds, only grubs and sod worms. It's temperamental
with temperatures. Do these suburbanites really want grass growing?"

St. Francis: "Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it has grown a little, they
cut it, sometimes two times a week."

God: "They cut it? Do they bale it like hay?"

St Francis: "Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags."

God: "They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?"

St. Francis: "No sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away."

GOD: "Now let me get this straight. They fertilize it to make it grow and
when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?"

St. Francis: "Yes, sir."

God: "These suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on
the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a
lot of work."

St. Francis: "You aren't going to believe this Lord, but when the grass
stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so
they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it."

God: "What nonsense! At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer
stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring
to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the
ground and form a natural blanket to keep the moisture in the soil and
protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves become compost
to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life."

St. Francis: "You'd better sit down, Lord. As soon as the leaves fall, the
suburbanites rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away."

God: "No way! What do they do to protect the shrubs and tree roots in the
winter to keep the soil moist and loose?"

St Francis: "After throwing the leaves away, they go out and buy something
called mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the
leaves."

God: "And where do they get this mulch?"

St. Francis: "They cut down the trees and grind them up to make mulch."

God: "Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. Saint Catherine,
you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?"

St. Catherine: "'Dumb and Dumber,' Lord. It 's a really stupid movie
about -"

God: "Never mind. I think I just heard the whole story from Saint Francis."

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

15 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The $810 BILLION bailout ... what does it mean to ME???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1371c8463057fd8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 6:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

nospam <nospam@comcast.invalid.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dave <noway@nohow.not> wrote

>>>> So much for THAT theory - DOW just closed at 8579! Wow!!!

>>>> (I guess you can always worry it might have been even worse).

>>> To put it in perspective... the DOW lost 7% in ONE DAY.

>>> Now watch some fricking moron claim with a straight face
>>> that the $810 BILLION bailout was not a terrible idea.

>> You dunno what it would have done if Congress had refused to do the bailout, fool.

> Yeah, it's like asking Saddam Hussein to prove he didn't have WMDs.

> Same game.

> Bush has finally attained his long-term goal to be dictator.

Nope, he'll be gone in months, you watch. He wont even be able to get his own party's
candidate to replace him as Prez, or have any control over Congress either, you watch.

> If you want to know which corporations are being allowed to live and which
> are not, simply refer to your handy list of major Republican Party donors.

Pity about Lehmans.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 6:55 pm
From: James

On Oct 9, 6:43 pm, Marsha <m...@xeb.net> wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:
> > My wife is saying she would like to get them fixed. About 8 years
> > ago, I got my cat fixed for $35, and now it is $55 at a local shelter.
>
> $55.00 for spay and/or neuter? They can't all be females.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

I read in the metro DC area they have fix and release programs. Don't
remember if they are free or not and it may be one weekend a month.
They fix them and than clip a bit of their ear to ID they're fixed.
They may have something similar near you. Don't know if it's worth it
for you to make a trip to DC.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:31 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Marsha wrote:

> Vic Smith wrote:
>> My 12 year-old dog is almost unable to walk with arthritis and muscle
>> loss, and going soft in the head. Have to put her down real soon.
>> If I was in the country I'd shoot her and bury her myself, but I think
>> the vet doing it is going to cost me a couple hundred bucks.
>> Anybody have experience with this?
>>
>> --Vic
>
> Have you called around? It shouldn't cost you anywhere near that. My
> 24-year-old cat, whose kidneys gave out, was put down last year and my
> regular vet only charged 75.00. Worth every penny and more, to me. It took
> about half an hour, much longer than usual, because her heart just wouldn't
> stop beating. Two more injections later, she finally gave up. She always
> was a fighter.

Half an hour, that makes no sense. The object is to give them enough
juice to put them down quickly. And since they weigh only about 10
pounds it cannot take much. It's very sad to have to put a pet down
but I just wonder how that happened.

> Marsha/Ohio
>
>

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:34 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, clams_casino wrote:

> Siskuwihane wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2:47 am, larry <f...@foobar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>
>>>> How much would the raw chicken cost you at regular supermarket
>>>> prices? At sale prices? Assume you cook regularly and have all the
>>>> other stuff necessary for fried chicken so their cost is minor.
>>>>
>>> Healthwise, you would do much better to bake or roast your
>>> chicken for better flavor, reduced fat and carbs.
>>>
>>
>> That's not the question being asked.
>>
>>
>>
>>> We pay a high price for our highly processed food in the
>>> name of saving time and a few cents.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, we know.
>>
>> Some of us also like KFC every now and then and do not need preached
>> to everytime a question about fast food is brought up.
>>
>> Would you like to be told about veganism or the cruelty of poultry
>> processing plants every time you mention roasting chicken? How buying
>> chicken supports illegal aliens working in the plants? Probably not.
>>
>
> KFC quality is so erratic, it's a rarity that I'd consider them. For a
> while, Popeyes was a preferred source, but their quality seems to have
> slipped in recent years.
>
> Perhaps that's best as I rarely consider fried chicken any more.

I used to get the jones for KFC and the last time I got it I was looking
so forward to eating it but when I took my first bite I thought,
"this just might be rat meat". I mean, I had a piece that resembled
no part of a chicken I was acquainted with.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:41 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, kilikini wrote:

> James wrote:
>> I'll just assume no one who answered ever fried enough chicken to know
>> how much it would cost them to make the equivalent amount of KFC
>> chicken. Guess those of you who cook never compared compared the
>> cost.
>
> Okay, I'll bite. We can get a 10 pound bag of chicken leg quarters for
> about $5 at "the dreaded meat store". Cut up the quarters (free). Cornmeal
> mix is $1.39 for an entire bag, which only a fraction is used. Garlic, salt
> & pepper is negligible. Oil? I'd say $1's worth.
>
> Since there is only two of us and I don't usually eat chicken anyway, we
> obviously don't use up the whole 10 pounds of chicken.
>
> I'd say homemade fried chicken is cheaper (and better!) than KFC.
>

You have only legs which most people don't prefer. You don't figure
in the time you take to cook it or clean up the mess. You still probably
come out ahead. When's dinner?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:33 pm
From: James

On Oct 9, 11:41 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, kilikini wrote:
> > James wrote:
> >> I'll just assume no one who answered ever fried enough chicken to know
> >> how much it would cost them to make the equivalent amount of KFC
> >> chicken. Guess those of you who cook never compared compared the
> >> cost.
>
> > Okay, I'll bite. We can get a 10 pound bag of chicken leg quarters for
> > about $5 at "the dreaded meat store". Cut up the quarters (free). Cornmeal
> > mix is $1.39 for an entire bag, which only a fraction is used. Garlic, salt
> > & pepper is negligible. Oil? I'd say $1's worth.
>
> > Since there is only two of us and I don't usually eat chicken anyway, we
> > obviously don't use up the whole 10 pounds of chicken.

>
> > I'd say homemade fried chicken is cheaper (and better!) than KFC.
>
> You have only legs which most people don't prefer. You don't figure
> in the time you take to cook it or clean up the mess. You still probably
> come out ahead. When's dinner?- Hide quoted text -
>
I prefer dark meat because it has more fat. White meat is a little
dry for me.

Supermarket cooked chicken really smells good but I've never ate one
that I liked.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What can you buy with $85 Billion?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7418d6fe7f8b4808?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:54 pm
From: A 'Nam Veteran

Two weeks ago, Treasury Secretary Paulson bailed out American Insurance
Group (AIG)
with $85 billion dollars in taxpayer money - and now they are back for
more. He said
they needed it to stay afloat. Now, we know what they did with our money.

AIG executives headed out on a taxpayer funded junket to the St. Regis
resort in
California. While there, they had a blast at our expense. They helped
themselves
to:(1)

* $201,047.42 for hotel rooms and $147,301.71 for catered banquets
* $23,380 for the hotel spa and another $1,488 for the salon.
* Golf for $6,939.09 and $5,016.32 spent at the Tavern.

Now they are back at the trough. This is outrageous. Tell Treasury
Secretary
Paulson: The Director who authorized this junket should be fired and
every penny
spent on this lavish retreat must be returned to the Treasury.

Send a message to Secretary Paulson right now
http://act.truemajorityaction.org/p/7002/campaign?campaign_KEY=1553
--
Money; What a concept !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b260cd3d2eb87704?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:53 pm
From: JonL

OhioGuy wrote:
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.

>The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?

My guess is, the term isn't used for the same reason 90% of storms at
sea aren't given names. (too weak to qualify as typhoons/hurricanes)

Locally, it might seem like, or feel like a depression, but that doesn't
make it so. (feelings ain't facts)

from Wisegeek:
What is the Difference Between a Depression and a Recession?

http://tinyurl.com/4eqg4w

Many econ-types are predicting a long, deep recession or a Mild to Fair
Depression.

The latest from the Trends-dude"

Celente - Bailout A Bust - Depression To Follow
http://www.trendsresearch.com/
<snipped>
Beyond the $1 trillion subprime problem that's been erroneously targeted
as the prime culprit behind the credit crisis are more serious financial
catastrophes that are barely reported, mostly overlooked and can't be
remedied. The Fed can't print enough money to paper over the $531.2
trillion in derivatives and credit swaps, the trillions in the overbuilt
commercial real estate market ready to collapse, the multi-trillions in
leveraged buyouts going bust, and other "exotic" financial instruments
that have turned toxic.

Trendpost: The Panic of '08 is "On." Yet, the instant the Dow crashed
678 points today, Bloomberg Radio brought on an expert who declared
"most of the crash is behind us" and said the market plunge presented "a
good buying opportunity." We see things differently. Yesterday's
lowering of interest rates and the continual Fed action to flood the
markets with money will lead to an era of hyper-inflation, the likes of
which no living American has ever seen.
<snip>

In 2008, Americans will wake up to the worst economic times that anyone
alive has ever seen. ~Gerald Celente, Trends Research
Institute,12-17-2007

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:56 pm
From: JonL

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> ... Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.
>
> To a rate of 5.37% in August? :-)
>
>> ... I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
>
> You might look up "inflation rate."
>

Or you could look up "fudging the inflation rate, or the Misery Index.

http://www.shadowstats.com

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:16 pm
From: JonL

OhioGuy wrote:
> >During the Depression the unemployment rate in the US was around 25%
> >and it lasted for years. We're nowhere near that point as yet
>
> Seems as if many places here in Ohio are already halfway there - 12%
> unemployment in a number of cities. There are $80K houses that go
> unsold for half that, because the jobs are gone.

Look at the bright side. That official number,12%,would be much higher
if calculated the same way as during the Carter era. Clinton destroyed
whatever credibility was left in the official figures.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data

The popularly followed unemployment rate was 5.5% in July 2004,
seasonally adjusted. That is known as U-3, one of six unemployment rates
published by the BLS. The broadest U-6 measure was 9.5%, including
discouraged and marginally attached workers.

Up until the Clinton administration, a discouraged worker was one who
was willing, able and ready to work but had given up looking because
there were no jobs to be had. The Clinton administration dismissed to
the non-reporting netherworld about five million discouraged workers who
had been so categorized for more than a year. Adding in the netherworld
takes the unemployment rate up to about 12.5%.

The Clinton administration also reduced monthly household sampling from
60,000 to about 50,000, eliminating significant surveying in the inner
cities. Despite claims of corrective statistical adjustments, reported
unemployment among people of color declined sharply, and the piggybacked
poverty survey showed a remarkable reversal in decades of worsening
poverty trends.

(trivia: b4 leaving office, it was changed back to sampling 60k, a gift
for the new prez, I guess)

Shadowstats debunked
http://tinyurl.com/4k634w

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:33 pm
From: JonL

itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net wrote:
> On Oct 8, 4:02 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 7:42 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 6, 8:17 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>>>> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> My auto insurance policy is with AIG, and it is about to expire. The
>>>>> rate is pretty good, so I want to renew the policy, but I wonder if I
>>>>> should look for another company, given their problems? Will AIG
>>>>> disappear, or does their bailout mean they definitely won't disappear?
>>>> why deal with lying scum...find a more honorable company to deal
>>>> with..and do some research, make sure its not backed by AIG, as many
>>>> are.
>>>> Phil scott
>>> What an idiot.
>> For sure, why pick on such honest and reputable people? I just don't get
>> it either...
>>
>> "For some people at AIG, the insurance giant rescued last month with an
>> $85 billion federal bailout, the good times keep rolling."
>>
>> "Former chief executive Martin J. Sullivan, whose three-year tenure
>> coincided with much of the company's ill-fated risk-taking, is receiving
>> a $5 million performance bonus."
>>
>> "And just last week, about 70 of the company's top performers were
>> rewarded with a week-long stay at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch
>> Beach, Calif., where they ran up a tab of $440,000."
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR200...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Ummmmm, it was TEN of their top INDEPENDENT agents who were at this
> retreat. A retreat that was planned long before the shit hit the fan.

If you'd already planned a birthday party, and the person died a week or
so b4 the planned day, would you still go ahead with the party...??

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:50 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 3:34 pm, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> like these.
>
> (I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> find a silver lining):
>
> * You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> to refuel or sell.
> * You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> your finances.
> * You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> could skyrocket at any moment.
> * Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> more?

no rent, no mortgage, no taxes if you live on a boat or in a
motorhome....and you can work anywhere..a huge advantage.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:52 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 4:00 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:34:25 -0600, timeOday
>
>
>
>
>
> <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> >Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> >involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> >prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> >by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> >On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> >like these.
>
> >(I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> >watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> >inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> >find a silver lining):
>
> >* You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> >to refuel or sell.
> >* You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> >your finances.
> >* You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> >could skyrocket at any moment.
> >* Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> >shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> >more?
>
> No mortgage, no auto loan, no debt at all other than month-to-month
> utility bills and credit card charges (paid off each month).
>
> The Dow is about where it was 5 1/2 years ago. I didn't feel
> desperately broke then, either.
>
> I guess we'll see.
>
> --
> It looks like freedom
> But it smells like death
> It's something in between,
> I guess
> It's closing time - Leonard Cohen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the dow is way *below where it was 5 years ago... its in the 1995
range if you figure the devalued dollar... average about 10 pct a year
real inflation over the last 15 years... about 20 pct a year now.

Bread was 2 dollars a loaf then or less. 1.25 or so...now its 5
dollars
to stay even the dow would have to be at 20 or 30,000

the govts cpi is bogus.

Phil scott

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:55 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 4:29 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
> > Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> > involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> > prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> > by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> > On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> > like these.
>
> > (I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> > watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> > inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> > find a silver lining):
>
> > * You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> > to refuel or sell.
> > * You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> > your finances.
> > * You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> > could skyrocket at any moment.
> > * Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> > shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> > more?
>
> Donald Trump said oil would go back to $20/bbl. T.Boone Pickens bet
> him $100K that it would never see $50 again and said that Trump should
> stick to real estate. We're only part way into this crisis and we're
> more than half way down the price ladder. Fueling the SUV might not be
> a big problem the way it's going.
>
> Saving your money or avoiding a credit balance won't be much help if
> the dollar is devalued and the other guy's loans are forgiven.
>
> I see very little good in all this. Perfecting one's non monetary
> survival skills could be very helpful.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

correct.

imo

however perfecting ones dire times earning capabilty is even better
imo... the money can be so perverted that it ends badly no matter
what...but earning skills for dire times keeps on bringing in the
bacon.

my plan... not easy though

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:54 pm
From: Donna Ohl

On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:32:56 GMT, NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> Call the Repair Clinic guy at 800-269-2609 instead.
> He's a lot more friendly.

Hi NoSpam,

The only thing I had to pay full on was the tax (which for California is
over 8%).

The new genuine GE element should arrive soon from UPS at a total cost of
about $38 off my credit card.

So, even though Crumb Bum must have been under the weather that day, he
helped me get the parts for a great price (I think).

BTW, the GE parts representative kept touting "genuine GE" but I wonder if
all the parts are the same. I'll bet they are.

Anyone know which brand of oven parts is any better or worse than the
others?

Donna

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