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Today's topics:
* Review: "How To Live Well Without Owning a Car - Save Money, Breathe Easier,
and Get More Mileage Out of Life" by Chris Balish - 8 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dff28f482d02ae5c?hl=en
* REVERSE MORTGAGES Can Reverse Seniors' Peace of Mind! Don't Be A Sucker! - 4
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0473fdfcc503264d?hl=en
* Furnished apartments in Paris - www.furnished-apartments-rental.com - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/252ff201bed4ee6a?hl=en
* @@@@@@ *Paypal Payment* 2009 Cheap wholesale Chanel handbag and purse at
WEBSITE: www.fjrjtrade.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0059de949be47168?hl=en
* In what way are you LEAST frugal? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18003f4ff7c65165?hl=en
* Frugal Carpet Cleaning Solution For Steam Cleaners? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/514d24c73ddda3cf?hl=en
* DC to AC to DC - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5872826a6662376f?hl=en
* Could you live without clothes dryer? Washer only? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c7faadfffe8e6e11?hl=en
* the "economy" and "good news" . - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3fcb3ffec8403ec3?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Review: "How To Live Well Without Owning a Car - Save Money, Breathe
Easier, and Get More Mileage Out of Life" by Chris Balish
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dff28f482d02ae5c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:49 am
From: "Rod Speed"
George wrote:
> Napoleon wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:07:25 -0400, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>>
>>> My city's public transportion sucks. Why? Because we're basically
>>> a smaller version of Detroit. So unless you've walked a mile in my
>>> shoes, go suck an egg.
>>
>> You don't live in Syracuse, do you? The public transportation here
>> sucks the big shitola. I believe they only got bus service to the
>> airport a few years ago. Unbelievable. America has only gone
>> backwards since the adoption of the "automobile" as our saviour. In
>> the 20's Syracuse had a network of electric trolleys that went
>> everywhere and were safe, silent and affordable. Syracuse also had a
>> good train system that actually went all the way out to resorts in
>> the adirondacks and Sylvan Beach on Oneida Lake (Syracuse also had
>> coal burning trains that ran right through downtown's streets, which
>> wasn't great, but it was public transportation). Then the car came
>> and the trolley system was trashed, the train schedules were cut
>> back to nothing and the dreaded buses with their shitty schedules
>> taking forever to get anywhere and going through the slum areas took
>> hold. Improvement! Thank god for the automobile! I was in Melbourne a few
>> weeks ago and using their trolley system, I thought "even America's
>> smallest cities used to have these." What a shame America has trashed
>> what worked in the past, and continues to work in other countries.
>> It's sad.
>
> Very similar here in PA. I have a DVD made from a tape that was
> produced from old color film that a local guy shot in the late
> 1940s. There were literally electric trolleys everywhere around here plus an
> electrified rapid transit interurban railway that ran 20 minute
> headways 24x7. If you weren't around then you would never realize the
> elaborate transit infrastructure we had unless you saw a film like
> this.
> Its very similar in Japan. You can go practically anywhere there
> efficiently on rail.
>
> My understanding is that GM and Firestone are what really helped it
> all disappear in the US. They went from town to town and found the
> right politicians to hand envelopes to. This would help them decide
> that GM buses with Firestone tires were really the way to go.
It happened right thruout the entire first world, mostly without any bribes.
There are only a tiny handful of citys that still have them now, including in the US.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:51 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>
>> you are an ass.
>> Look, idiot
>
> How about you get back to me when you have a rational argument instead
> of all this emotional Ad Hominem?
Why dont you do the same thing yourself ?
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:54 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> Last time on misc.consumers, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net>
> said:
>
>> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>>>
>>>> Kayak44 wrote:
>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but
>>>>> doesn't want to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as
>>>>> bad as anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible.
>>>>> Excuses are just that, excuses.
>>>>>
>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about
>>>>> it.
>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would
>>>> have to go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I would
>>>> have to take - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry permit
>>>> just to feel half-way safe. He is being smug, whether you want to
>>>> admit it or not. Public transportation is not an option for
>>>> everyone, no matter how you slice it.
>>>
>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.
>>
>> It is generally dictated by income.
> Even then you still have choices.
Yes, but not necessarily any with viable public transport,
particularly if you decide to own and not rent.
>>> If you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,
>> In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>> blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>> the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>> transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.
> Transit only *seems* more expensive because it is subsidized LESS than
> automobiles are.
Wrong. There are plenty of situations where the cheapest
cars are cheaper than the worst mass transit available
and the cheapest cars arent subsidized by anyone.
>> So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.
> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and account
> for ALL of them.
Thats just plain wrong too, most obviously when the subsidy is so small that it becomes irrelevant.
> With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.
Yes, but isnt actually necessary with the smallest subsidys.
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:45 am
From: Scott in SoCal
Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>>
>>> you are an ass.
>>> Look, idiot
>>
>> How about you get back to me when you have a rational argument instead
>> of all this emotional Ad Hominem?
>
>Ad Hominem must be your newest fad phrase. And you want me to stop the
>emotional Ad Hominem? I have better things to do - like laundry.
I guess I'll be waiting a long time, then.
I won't hold my breath.
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:48 am
From: Marioneta del Calcetin
Last time on misc.consumers, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> said:
>Heh. He thinks I couldn't have PLONKed him because I use GoogleGroups? Yeah,
>that would be true if I didn't use AIOE to READ all newsgroups 99% of the
>time.
SUUUUURE you do. Of course you didn't just sign up for aioe yesterday
because you got OWNED, right? Oh no, that couldn't possibly be it.
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 12:31 pm
From: "sr"
"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:hchr5f$ckr$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> sr wrote:
>> "Scott in SoCal" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:9i8ne5514fck8q3qv7ate5tfd1s1gjhq3j@4ax.com...
>>> Last time on misc.consumers, "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> said:
>>>
>>>>> It never fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> Every time this subject comes up there's always some whiner who pops
>>>>> up with this "I can't use public transit" BS. It's as if you believe
>>>>> that you are a tree, and you are forced to grow wherever Chance has
>>>>> placed your seed. You live where you live because you CHOSE to live
>>>>> there; if properly motivated, you could just as easily CHOOSE to live
>>>>> someplace else.
>>>> =True, and I'm in the progress. Believe me , I didn't stick here for
>>>> my
>>>> health,
>>>> I had family obligation, that recently ,are no more. Some people are
>>>> where
>>>> they
>>>> are for many reasons.
>>>> Are you a Preacher? Just asking
>>> Nope! Not even close.
>>>
>>>> Bet you live in some all around the year warm climate, also.
>>> I do now, but I grew up in Chicago. I actually used transit more when
>>> I lived there than I do now, primarily because the transit system
>>> there is so much better.
>>>
>>>> You are just a tad better than the rest of the herd, aren't you.
>>> Not better, just different priorities. Somehow I managed to purchase a
>>> house that is within walking distance of four grocery stores, a dozen
>>> restaurants, a medical and dental office building, dry cleaners, hair
>>> salons, two bus lines, and a Metrolink commuter rail station.
>>>
>>> The herd typically places things like square footage and age of the
>>> house at a higher priority than the things I listed. If those had been
>>> my priorities, I'd have bought a McMansion out in BFE and been stuck
>>> driving on the 91 freeway for 2 hours every day. OTOH, when gasoline
>>> was up over $4/gallon, not being a slave to my car came in mighty
>>> handy. :)
>>>
>>>> Yea, try in with snow up your backside, House is
>>>> for sale come see how long you last in the climate. You would be
>>>> graveling,
>>>> come Spring.
>>> I spent the first 30 years or so of my life in a cold climate, so I'd
>>> last a lot longer than you think.
>>
>> Evidently you lived within the city, rural living is all about self
>> sufficiency, and it can be a killer in the winter time.
>
>
> I think that might be the old version. The usual modern drill is deciding
> to leave a place with neighbors and moving into a rural area. Then
> immediately deciding that everyone else should pay to have the five mile
> dirt road you live on with three houses on it paved and for everyone else
> to pay to have the water, sewers and cable TV/Internet extended to your
> property.
Well, you aren't an old timer. They are dying out. this road was built by
the people living on it some 20 years ago. Yes, we had mud up to the axl.
People would leave their cars on the corner and walk in, kids did also. For
the modern conviences, I have a dial up, phone wires, they have been here
for sometime by the looks of the electric poles, , as woodpeckers are making
homes in them, now. Our standard of living is very basic. Now, when the
out of staters fled Mass to come to a less regulated part of the country,
they are the ones that bitched an moaned about the roads, about the smell of
manure being spread, bitch, bitch, bitch , moan, and whin, until they got
enough of the whiners accumulated to be voted in or on the boards, or
invented boards to control the rest of us and to get in our pockets, oh
yea, you know, like those pansie liberals that are now in office, " Know
what I'm talking about, Willis" These "out of staters" brought their
sniffling ways up here with them, and put it all on us that were minding our
own damn business.
==== Liberal infect every place they go and we are left with the grief, and
the Liberals still aren't happy, can you believe it?-------------------So,
people like me have to find a place with less of them, becoming more and
more difficult, they seem to be every place, still looking at one of those
islands off of Maine's coast.
-----Now, that I'm on fire, I got enough energy manufactured to get more
work done around here!
Thanks
>> No one, any distance around. for some people. Had a neighbor die on his
>> doorstep during a blizzard.
>> I think you must be a city dweller, totally insufficient for survival.
>> Any ss
>> you are young, makes a difference.
>> Glad you are enjoying your life.
>>
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 4:10 pm
From: Les Cargill
sr wrote:
> "Scott in SoCal" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9i8ne5514fck8q3qv7ate5tfd1s1gjhq3j@4ax.com...
>> Last time on misc.consumers, "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> said:
>>
>>>> It never fails.
>>>>
>>>> Every time this subject comes up there's always some whiner who pops
>>>> up with this "I can't use public transit" BS. It's as if you believe
>>>> that you are a tree, and you are forced to grow wherever Chance has
>>>> placed your seed. You live where you live because you CHOSE to live
>>>> there; if properly motivated, you could just as easily CHOOSE to live
>>>> someplace else.
>>> =True, and I'm in the progress. Believe me , I didn't stick here for my
>>> health,
>>> I had family obligation, that recently ,are no more. Some people are where
>>> they
>>> are for many reasons.
>>> Are you a Preacher? Just asking
>> Nope! Not even close.
>>
>>> Bet you live in some all around the year warm climate, also.
>> I do now, but I grew up in Chicago. I actually used transit more when
>> I lived there than I do now, primarily because the transit system
>> there is so much better.
>>
>>> You are just a tad better than the rest of the herd, aren't you.
>> Not better, just different priorities. Somehow I managed to purchase a
>> house that is within walking distance of four grocery stores, a dozen
>> restaurants, a medical and dental office building, dry cleaners, hair
>> salons, two bus lines, and a Metrolink commuter rail station.
>>
>> The herd typically places things like square footage and age of the
>> house at a higher priority than the things I listed. If those had been
>> my priorities, I'd have bought a McMansion out in BFE and been stuck
>> driving on the 91 freeway for 2 hours every day. OTOH, when gasoline
>> was up over $4/gallon, not being a slave to my car came in mighty
>> handy. :)
>>
>>> Yea, try in with snow up your backside, House is
>>> for sale come see how long you last in the climate. You would be
>>> graveling,
>>> come Spring.
>> I spent the first 30 years or so of my life in a cold climate, so I'd
>> last a lot longer than you think.
>
> Evidently you lived within the city, rural living is all about self
> sufficiency, and it can be a killer in the winter time.
> No one, any distance around. for some people. Had a neighbor die on his
> doorstep during a blizzard.
I think that if I lived out like that, I'd read "To Build a Fire" by
Jack London a few times as winter approached. It's not *hard*, it's
just a constant state of awareness and being methodical in preparation.
One of my wife's online buddies lives by herself in the wilds
of Montana. Tough people.
> I think you must be a city dweller, totally insufficient for survival. Any
> you are young, makes a difference.
> Glad you are enjoying your life.
>
>
--
Les Cargill
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 3:31 pm
From: Phil W Lee
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> considered Sun, 1 Nov 2009
04:54:24 +1100 the perfect time to write:
>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> Last time on misc.consumers, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net>
>> said:
>>
>>> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>>> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>>>>
>>>>> Kayak44 wrote:
>>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but
>>>>>> doesn't want to hear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as
>>>>>> bad as anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible.
>>>>>> Excuses are just that, excuses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about
>>>>>> it.
>>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would
>>>>> have to go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I would
>>>>> have to take - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry permit
>>>>> just to feel half-way safe. He is being smug, whether you want to
>>>>> admit it or not. Public transportation is not an option for
>>>>> everyone, no matter how you slice it.
>>>>
>>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.
>>>
>>> It is generally dictated by income.
>
>> Even then you still have choices.
>
>Yes, but not necessarily any with viable public transport,
>particularly if you decide to own and not rent.
>
>>>> If you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,
>
>>> In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>>> blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>>> the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>>> transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.
>
>> Transit only *seems* more expensive because it is subsidized LESS than
>> automobiles are.
>
>Wrong. There are plenty of situations where the cheapest
>cars are cheaper than the worst mass transit available
>and the cheapest cars arent subsidized by anyone.
>
So you use them exclusively on private roads?
If not, you are getting a subsidy.
That is even without reckoning the cost of the wars waged so that you
can enjoy cheap fuel.
>>> So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.
>
>> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
>> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and account
>> for ALL of them.
>
>Thats just plain wrong too, most obviously when the subsidy is so small that it becomes irrelevant.
>
>> With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
>> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.
>
>Yes, but isnt actually necessary with the smallest subsidys.
>
I think you'll find that both of the subsidies I've mentioned exceed
the cost of the car - hardly "the smallest subsidys (sic)".
==============================================================================
TOPIC: REVERSE MORTGAGES Can Reverse Seniors' Peace of Mind! Don't Be A Sucker!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0473fdfcc503264d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:05 am
From: "Rod Speed"
sr wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7ks42sF39tm2uU1@mid.individual.net...
>> sr wrote:
> clip to save bandwidth
>>> Rod Speed, isn't there any community help you could be doing?
>>
>> I do that virtually every day. I also fuck over fools like that as
>> well.
>>> Your knowledge and know how shouldn't be wasted
>>
>> It isnt.
>>
>>> Probably there is habitat for Humanity somewhere near you?
>>
>> Nope, nowhere near me and I'm a heathen anyway.
>>
>> I did in fact infect quite a few I know personally with the house
>> building bug when I built my own from scratch. Some built their own
>> from scratch and some just got contractors to do most of the work.
>>
>> One loon actually painted the outside of his concrete block house
>> with a broom and a bucket of paint, quite literally. He's the one
>> that damned near killed himself when he had the 'brilliant' idea
>> of cleaning out the big place with all the growth cabinets in with
>> a pressure hose, with the power still on the growth cabinets.
>>
>>> You should give out all your knowledge and know how instead of
>>> taking it to the grave, just suggesting
>>
>> I've been doing that for more than half a century now, and
>> worked for a couple of universitys at various times as well.
> ==Excellent:
> Pressure power, I did damage to the concrete, also, pitted it.
> Great for taking old paint off
> I used lye to strip paint, than the power hose, worked great
> -
> Okay, you got me , can't trans. "of cleaning out the big place with
> all the growth cabinets ?" Sounds like a
> fun story just can't understand the lanuage.
Growth cabinets are big metal cabinets a bit like a cool store
which have lots of lights and air conditioning, used to grow plants
in for scientific research. They have the airconditioning in under
the place where the plants go, with wire mesh to keep hands
away from the electrical wiring etc. Thats why he came within
an ace of killing himself, hosing down the concrete floor in the
big building with rows of growth cabinets in.
> I believe you must be down under?
Yes.
> Any one living in underground houses, "caves" that you know?
There are a few. One of the fellas that I infect with house building
was proposing to build one of those after the one I infected him
with, in an area prone to bushfires, basically to make it fireproof.
He didnt end up building it like that in the end, cant remember why now.
> I was very interested in underground living to same fuel expense,
Yeah, did consider it myself, but ended up with passive solar instead.
> Got the books, never any follow through, now too old, too broken. I'll have to do that on my return, once again, with
> a healthy body.
You might come back as a rat or a cockroach etc.
> I thought the next place I work on, I'm having concrete floors
Yeah, that's what I have, massive great concret slab on the ground for the entire house.
> with a drain. I'll use the pressure hose to wash everything down into the drain and grey water, out to the gardens.
Thats what my next door neighbour's dad who was a cleaner suggested
when I was building the house. Too later for the drains tho.
> No matter how careful I am, No matter what I have tried, I have more dirt in the house than should be at the end of
> the day, between that and the wood stove!
Yeah, I just let it stay dirty.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:58 am
From: "sr"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7l3ck7F3arfoaU1@mid.individual.net...
> sr wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7ks42sF39tm2uU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> sr wrote:
>> clip to save bandwidth
>>>> Rod Speed, isn't there any community help you could be doing?
>>>
>>> I do that virtually every day. I also fuck over fools like that as
>>> well.
>>>> Your knowledge and know how shouldn't be wasted
>>>
>>> It isnt.
>>>
>>>> Probably there is habitat for Humanity somewhere near you?
>>>
>>> Nope, nowhere near me and I'm a heathen anyway.
>>>
>>> I did in fact infect quite a few I know personally with the house
>>> building bug when I built my own from scratch. Some built their own
>>> from scratch and some just got contractors to do most of the work.
>>>
>>> One loon actually painted the outside of his concrete block house
>>> with a broom and a bucket of paint, quite literally. He's the one
>>> that damned near killed himself when he had the 'brilliant' idea
>>> of cleaning out the big place with all the growth cabinets in with
>>> a pressure hose, with the power still on the growth cabinets.
>>>
>>>> You should give out all your knowledge and know how instead of
>>>> taking it to the grave, just suggesting
>>>
>>> I've been doing that for more than half a century now, and
>>> worked for a couple of universitys at various times as well.
>> ==Excellent:
>> Pressure power, I did damage to the concrete, also, pitted it.
>> Great for taking old paint off
>> I used lye to strip paint, than the power hose, worked great
>> -
>> Okay, you got me , can't trans. "of cleaning out the big place with
>> all the growth cabinets ?" Sounds like a
>> fun story just can't understand the lanuage.
>
> Growth cabinets are big metal cabinets a bit like a cool store
> which have lots of lights and air conditioning, used to grow plants
> in for scientific research. They have the airconditioning in under
> the place where the plants go, with wire mesh to keep hands
> away from the electrical wiring etc. Thats why he came within
> an ace of killing himself, hosing down the concrete floor in the
> big building with rows of growth cabinets in.
>
>> I believe you must be down under?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Any one living in underground houses, "caves" that you know?
>
> There are a few. One of the fellas that I infect with house building
> was proposing to build one of those after the one I infected him
> with, in an area prone to bushfires, basically to make it fireproof.
>
> He didnt end up building it like that in the end, cant remember why now.
>
>> I was very interested in underground living to same fuel expense,
>
> Yeah, did consider it myself, but ended up with passive solar instead.
>
>> Got the books, never any follow through, now too old, too broken. I'll
>> have to do that on my return, once again, with a healthy body.
>
> You might come back as a rat or a cockroach etc.
>
>> I thought the next place I work on, I'm having concrete floors
>
> Yeah, that's what I have, massive great concret slab on the ground for the
> entire house.
>
>> with a drain. I'll use the pressure hose to wash everything down into the
>> drain and grey water, out to the gardens.
>
> Thats what my next door neighbour's dad who was a cleaner suggested
> when I was building the house. Too later for the drains tho.
>
>> No matter how careful I am, No matter what I have tried, I have more dirt
>> in the house than should be at the end of the day, between that and the
>> wood stove!
>
> Yeah, I just let it stay dirty.
>
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 12:09 pm
From: "sr"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7l3ck7F3arfoaU1@mid.individual.net...
> sr wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7ks42sF39tm2uU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> sr wrote:
>> clip to save bandwidth
>>>> Rod Speed, isn't there any community help you could be doing?
>>>
>>> I do that virtually every day. I also fuck over fools like that as
>>> well.
>>>> Your knowledge and know how shouldn't be wasted
>>>
>>> It isnt.
>>>
>>>> Probably there is habitat for Humanity somewhere near you?
>>>
>>> Nope, nowhere near me and I'm a heathen anyway.
>>>
>>> I did in fact infect quite a few I know personally with the house
>>> building bug when I built my own from scratch. Some built their own
>>> from scratch and some just got contractors to do most of the work.
>>>
>>> One loon actually painted the outside of his concrete block house
>>> with a broom and a bucket of paint, quite literally. He's the one
>>> that damned near killed himself when he had the 'brilliant' idea
>>> of cleaning out the big place with all the growth cabinets in with
>>> a pressure hose, with the power still on the growth cabinets.
>>>
>>>> You should give out all your knowledge and know how instead of
>>>> taking it to the grave, just suggesting
>>>
>>> I've been doing that for more than half a century now, and
>>> worked for a couple of universitys at various times as well.
>> ==Excellent:
>> Pressure power, I did damage to the concrete, also, pitted it.
>> Great for taking old paint off
>> I used lye to strip paint, than the power hose, worked great
>> -
>> Okay, you got me , can't trans. "of cleaning out the big place with
>> all the growth cabinets ?" Sounds like a
>> fun story just can't understand the lanuage.
>
> Growth cabinets are big metal cabinets a bit like a cool store
> which have lots of lights and air conditioning, used to grow plants
> in for scientific research. They have the airconditioning in under
> the place where the plants go, with wire mesh to keep hands
> away from the electrical wiring etc. Thats why he came within
> an ace of killing himself, hosing down the concrete floor in the
> big building with rows of growth cabinets in.
--
Now, with the description, he just missed becoming a TV BLOOPER!
funn ie
---
>> I believe you must be down under?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Any one living in underground houses, "caves" that you know?
>
> There are a few. One of the fellas that I infect with house building
> was proposing to build one of those after the one I infected him
> with, in an area prone to bushfires, basically to make it fireproof.
>
> He didnt end up building it like that in the end, cant remember why now.
>
>> I was very interested in underground living to same fuel expense,
-
Only would take 3 cords of wood to be comfortable, present house takes 7
cords, even than, I have half the house closed off. During winter it gets
down to 50 inside the house. Getting difficult to substain core temperature
in old age.
>
> Yeah, did consider it myself, but ended up with passive solar instead.
Underground shelter builder, author.
Rob Roy, I have on the shelf. One of those things I'm going to regret, not
going to his workshop, when I was younger. oh well
>
>> Got the books, never any follow through, now too old, too broken. I'll
>> have to do that on my return, once again, with a healthy body.
>
> You might come back as a rat or a cockroach etc.
I believe it is the cockroach that has endure throughout the history of the
earth, is it not?
---
>
>> I thought the next place I work on, I'm having concrete floors
>
> Yeah, that's what I have, massive great concret slab on the ground for the
> entire house.
>
>> with a drain. I'll use the pressure hose to wash everything down into the
>> drain and grey water, out to the gardens.
>
> Thats what my next door neighbour's dad who was a cleaner suggested
> when I was building the house. Too later for the drains tho.
>
>> No matter how careful I am, No matter what I have tried, I have more dirt
>> in the house than should be at the end of the day, between that and the
>> wood stove!
>
> Yeah, I just let it stay dirty.
Can't stand the feel on bare feet. I have floorcloths on the floors, I
have made over the years. Don't want the patterns to wear off from abrasion
of the dirt.
But, I'm simplifing my life, just plain concrete, next time around, soon , I
hope; if, I can find some fool to buy this place.
Any fools out there, I got a bargain for you!
>
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 1:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
sr wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7l3ck7F3arfoaU1@mid.individual.net...
>> sr wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7ks42sF39tm2uU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> sr wrote:
>>> clip to save bandwidth
>>>>> Rod Speed, isn't there any community help you could be doing?
>>>>
>>>> I do that virtually every day. I also fuck over fools like that as
>>>> well.
>>>>> Your knowledge and know how shouldn't be wasted
>>>>
>>>> It isnt.
>>>>
>>>>> Probably there is habitat for Humanity somewhere near you?
>>>>
>>>> Nope, nowhere near me and I'm a heathen anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I did in fact infect quite a few I know personally with the house
>>>> building bug when I built my own from scratch. Some built their own
>>>> from scratch and some just got contractors to do most of the work.
>>>>
>>>> One loon actually painted the outside of his concrete block house
>>>> with a broom and a bucket of paint, quite literally. He's the one
>>>> that damned near killed himself when he had the 'brilliant' idea
>>>> of cleaning out the big place with all the growth cabinets in with
>>>> a pressure hose, with the power still on the growth cabinets.
>>>>
>>>>> You should give out all your knowledge and know how instead of
>>>>> taking it to the grave, just suggesting
>>>>
>>>> I've been doing that for more than half a century now, and
>>>> worked for a couple of universitys at various times as well.
>>> ==Excellent:
>>> Pressure power, I did damage to the concrete, also, pitted it.
>>> Great for taking old paint off
>>> I used lye to strip paint, than the power hose, worked great
>>> -
>>> Okay, you got me , can't trans. "of cleaning out the big place with
>>> all the growth cabinets ?" Sounds like a
>>> fun story just can't understand the lanuage.
>>
>> Growth cabinets are big metal cabinets a bit like a cool store
>> which have lots of lights and air conditioning, used to grow plants
>> in for scientific research. They have the airconditioning in under
>> the place where the plants go, with wire mesh to keep hands
>> away from the electrical wiring etc. Thats why he came within
>> an ace of killing himself, hosing down the concrete floor in the
>> big building with rows of growth cabinets in.
> Now, with the description, he just missed becoming a TV BLOOPER! funn ie
Yeah, damned near curtains for him.
>>> I believe you must be down under?
>> Yes.
>>> Any one living in underground houses, "caves" that you know?
>> There are a few. One of the fellas that I infect with house building
>> was proposing to build one of those after the one I infected him
>> with, in an area prone to bushfires, basically to make it fireproof.
>> He didnt end up building it like that in the end, cant remember why now.
Pretty sure it was just the significantly higher cost of that approach.
>>> I was very interested in underground living to same fuel expense,
> Only would take 3 cords of wood to be comfortable, present house takes 7 cords, even than, I have half the house
> closed off. During winter it gets down to 50 inside the house. Getting difficult to substain core temperature in old
> age.
I've just started using an electric throw in winter. Works very well indeed.
>> Yeah, did consider it myself, but ended up with passive solar instead.
> Underground shelter builder, author.
> Rob Roy, I have on the shelf. One of those things I'm going to
> regret, not going to his workshop, when I was younger. oh well
>>> Got the books, never any follow through, now too old, too broken. I'll have to do that on my return, once again,
>>> with a healthy body.
>> You might come back as a rat or a cockroach etc.
> I believe it is the cockroach that has endure throughout the history of the earth, is it not?
Sure, but they dont need underground homes or cords of wood either.
>>> I thought the next place I work on, I'm having concrete floors
>> Yeah, that's what I have, massive great concret slab on the ground for the entire house.
>>> with a drain. I'll use the pressure hose to wash everything down
>>> into the drain and grey water, out to the gardens.
>> Thats what my next door neighbour's dad who was a cleaner suggested
>> when I was building the house. Too later for the drains tho.
>>> No matter how careful I am, No matter what I have tried, I have more dirt in the house than should be at the end of
>>> the day, between that and the wood stove!
>> Yeah, I just let it stay dirty.
> Can't stand the feel on bare feet.
I prefer it freshly swept with bare feet but dont bother unless its very bad.
> I have floorcloths on the floors, I have made over the years. Don't want the patterns to wear off from abrasion of
> the dirt.
I dont bother with mats, just bare concrete and quarry tiles.
> But, I'm simplifing my life, just plain concrete, next time around,
Yeah, I havent bothered to lay the quarry tiles in quite a bit of the house,
even tho I have them in a couple of big piles. Just stick with the bare concrete.
> soon , I hope; if, I can find some fool to buy this place.
> Any fools out there, I got a bargain for you!
Trouble is that there is so much HUD stuff on the market currently.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Furnished apartments in Paris - www.furnished-apartments-rental.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/252ff201bed4ee6a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:15 am
From: resa str
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of lights.
It is our pleasure to assist you in your Paris furnished apartment
search and to welcome you in Paris for your vacations or business
trips.
http://www.furnished-apartments-rental.com
==============================================================================
TOPIC: @@@@@@ *Paypal Payment* 2009 Cheap wholesale Chanel handbag and purse
at WEBSITE: www.fjrjtrade.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0059de949be47168?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:51 am
From: fjrjtrade
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: In what way are you LEAST frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18003f4ff7c65165?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 1:15 pm
From: Rally2xs
On Oct 30, 6:11 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > or afair tax.
>
> Thats what a progressive income tax is.
>
> > Afair taxwould allow people to decide how much taxes they pay, by deciding how many things they buy.
>
> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
>
> > If they decide to do without, or keep making do with something older, they would pay fewer taxes.
>
> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
Have you read about the fair tax? The poor don't even pay it. Even
better, they 1) Get to keep every cent they make and 2) Experience
about a 22% discount over what they're paying now for goods and
services manufactured, mined, or grown in this country.
It's WAY better than the supposed "progressive" income tax. It's
actually a subsidy for the poor. Nobody ever pays the full fair tax
rate (23% the 1st year, close to that subsequent years) buy Bill Gates
might pay maybe 22.999999999%.
With the fair tax, we could bring prosperity back to the USA - the
prosperity that the income tax has been choking out of the country for
the last 50 years or so.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 1:35 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Rally2xs wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> or afair tax.
>> Thats what a progressive income tax is.
>>> Afair taxwould allow people to decide how much taxes
>>> they pay, by deciding how many things they buy.
>> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
>>> If they decide to do without, or keep making do
>>> with something older, they would pay fewer taxes.
>> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
> Have you read about the fair tax?
Yep.
> The poor don't even pay it.
Depends on what you call the poor.
> Even better, they 1) Get to keep every cent they make and
> 2) Experience about a 22% discount over what they're paying now for
> goods and services manufactured, mined, or grown in this country.
Not even possible to raise the amount currently raised in taxes that way.
And it only applys to federal income tax anyway, doesnt do a damned thing about the
very substantial property taxes that most USians pay directly or indirectly in their rent etc.
> It's WAY better than the supposed "progressive" income tax.
Nope. And there is nothing supposed about the progressive
income tax that all modern first and second world countrys have.
> It's actually a subsidy for the poor.
Why should those who choose to be poor by not bothering to work be subsidised ?
> Nobody ever pays the full fair tax rate (23% the 1st year, close to that
> subsequent years) buy Bill Gates might pay maybe 22.999999999%.
Bill Gates is completely irrelevant to real world tax regimes.
> With the fair tax, we could bring prosperity back to the USA
Nope, far too many would choose to be poor and bludge off everyone else.
> - the prosperity that the income tax has been choking out of the country for the last 50 years or so.
Mindlessly silly. Prosperity hasnt been anything even remotely resembling choked off.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 2:07 pm
From: "JonquilJan"
I am least frugal with my cats. I have taken in a feral cat, after months
of trying to tame her, and she was pregnant at the time. I buy the best I
can for her and her offspring as far as food and litter and toys.
They are my family.
JonquilJan
Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 2:34 pm
From: Rally2xs
On Oct 31, 4:35 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rally2xs wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> or afair tax.
> >> Thats what a progressive income tax is.
> >>> Afair taxwould allow people to decide how much taxes
> >>> they pay, by deciding how many things they buy.
> >> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
> >>> If they decide to do without, or keep making do
> >>> with something older, they would pay fewer taxes.
> >> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.
> > Have you read about thefair tax?
>
> Yep.
>
> > The poor don't even pay it.
>
> Depends on what you call the poor.
poor <= poverty level.
> > Even better, they 1) Get to keep every cent they make and
> > 2) Experience about a 22% discount over what they're paying now for
> > goods and services manufactured, mined, or grown in this country.
>
> Not even possible to raise the amount currently raised in taxes that way.
Well, that's rather off-handed. People with PHD's after their names
say we can. What makes you think we can't?
> And it only applys to federal income tax anyway, doesnt do a damned thing about the
> very substantial property taxes that most USians pay directly or indirectly in their rent etc.
Nope, but the poperty tax is not what's driving jobs overseas. The
income tax is. Getting rid of the corporate income tax will be a
large factor in keeping jobs here, and gettng the ones that left to
return.
> > It's WAY better than the supposed "progressive" income tax.
>
> Nope. And there is nothing supposed about the progressive
> income tax that all modern first and second world countrys have.
Is. And the income tax is not as progressive as the Fair Tax. That
is, unless you want to use the tax system to really stick it to the
rich. The Fair Tax is not good for punishing anyone.
> > It's actually a subsidy for the poor.
>
> Why should those who choose to be poor by not bothering to work be subsidised ?
They are working, most of 'em, they just don't make jack squat for
wages in this idiot "service economy."
> > Nobody ever pays the fullfair taxrate (23% the 1st year, close to that
> > subsequent years) buy Bill Gates might pay maybe 22.999999999%.
>
> Bill Gates is completely irrelevant to real world tax regimes.
Well, its the Democrats that always start whining about "The Rich"
every time anyone talks about the Fair Tax, and I can't think of
anyone richer, so used him. But anyway, the poverty level for a
family of 4 is about $26,000, so a family of 4 making $52,000 only
pays 1/2 the fair tax rate, effectively, as a maximum. If they buy
anything used, they pay even less. A family of 4 at $78,000 pays only
2/3rds the Fair Tax rate. Etc. Its a _very_ progressive tax.
>
> > With thefair tax, we could bring prosperity back to the USA
>
> Nope, far too many would choose to be poor and bludge off everyone else.
And I say they wouldn't.
There's tons of ex-factory workers that would work like dogs if they
could just get a job that they know how to do. Bring factories back,
and there's people that will get some ladders and hand tools and plumb
and wire it up faster than you can say Jack Robinson. Just don't
expect 'em to "retrain" to do prostate specific antigen tests in a
laboratory, 'cuz it ain't gonna happen. That's just not who they are.
If we don't get back jobs where people can work with their hands,
instead of having to have this elite workforce that can do calculus
and program computers and such, we're going to have a permanent
underclass in this country. That's bad for them 'cuz poverty sucks
and it's bad for us because we end up supporting them to at least a
certain extent. It drags the whole country down.
> > - the prosperity that the income tax has been choking out of the country for the last 50 years or so.
>
> Mindlessly silly. Prosperity hasnt been anything even remotely resembling choked off.
Not by a long shot. Prosperity is flagging and getting worse. The
last big thing that allowed Americans to earn a big income was the
software development that went overseas about 10 years ago. Go to
your Borders Bookstore or Barnes and Noble books. Find the computer
section. Pitiful, isn't it? There AREN'T any big-paying jobs even
for the intellectually elite, unles they've got a masters or better.
Back in the 60's, a man could be prosperous all by himself while
working a factory job, supporting his family while his wife stayed
home. Now it takes both husband and wife working, and sometimes one
or more working two jobs, to be able to live that way. And that isn't
even comparable, since the family in the 60's had more leisure time.
Hard to take a family vacation from 2 or 3 jobs at once.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Carpet Cleaning Solution For Steam Cleaners?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/514d24c73ddda3cf?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 1:30 pm
From: "Tiziano"
I am planning on renting one of those RugDoctor carpet cleaners from
Wal-Mart but would like to avoid purchasing their cleaning solution too...
This site:
http://frugalliving.about.com/od/householdsavings/qt/Carpet_Cleaner.htm
recommends using equal parts of white vinegar and warm water in order to
make some cheap carpet cleaning solution. Any comments on that? Other
alternatives to white vinegar? (I am a little bit worried that white
vinegar will stink up the whole carpet and place...)
Thanks.
--
tb
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 2:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tiziano wrote:
> I am planning on renting one of those RugDoctor carpet cleaners from
> Wal-Mart but would like to avoid purchasing their cleaning solution too...
> This site:
> http://frugalliving.about.com/od/householdsavings/qt/Carpet_Cleaner.htm
> recommends using equal parts of white vinegar and warm water in order
> to make some cheap carpet cleaning solution. Any comments on that? Other alternatives to white vinegar? (I am a
> little bit worried that
> white vinegar will stink up the whole carpet and place...)
Yeah, me too. Sounds mad to me.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DC to AC to DC
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5872826a6662376f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 2:44 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:40:30 +0800, "Dave C." <noway@nohow.never>
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:51:33 -0500
>jeff <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm taking a long car trip with a friend and we want to take along
>> our laptops. Now we don't have the DC chargers for them, but we of
>> course have the line chargers.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with running battery charger type
>> devices off those cigarette lighter AC converters. I know the AC out
>> of them is rough and I wonder if there was either anything to look
>> out for in buying a DC to AC converter or if there was any risk to
>> the electronics.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>You'll be fine, as far as the laptops go. The laptops will work great,
>they won't be damaged or anything. Hard part is finding a reliable
>inverter. After several brands over many years, I've finally settled
>on DieHard (Sears). They seem to be the only brand that I haven't
>been able to kill (somehow) after a few months of daily use.
>
>You want to aim for a wattage rating approximately twice (or more) of
>your anticipated maximum wattage needs. That's because inverters are
>rated for maximum surge current, which they can not sustain reliably
>for long-term use.
>
>For two laptops, get a 400W dual-outlet model. -Dave
FWIW, you can also get a driect to laptop car cord for somewhere
around $100 at the office supply stores.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could you live without clothes dryer? Washer only?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c7faadfffe8e6e11?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 3:22 pm
From: rocket scientist
In article <7ksh6oF3binhvU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Susan Bugher wrote
> > Rod Speed wrote
>
> > I said "Line dried clothes are stiff and "boardy" if you don't have a good
> > breezy drying day or if you dry them
> > indoors."
>
> There's much better ways to quote than that.
>
> >> None of mine are, so it must be the clothes etc you choose to wear.
>
> > Do you often make these wild leaps to silly conclusions?
>
> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
>
> > (I note that you wrote in another post that you have good weather for
> > your outdoor line-drying => lots of those "good breezy drying days". I
> > guess you stopped reading what I wrote before you got to the "if".)
>
> Guess again. I never ever said that its always breezy when I line dry, fool.
>
> Lets go thru this very very slowly for the terminally stupid.
>
> My clothes are not stiff and boardy when I line dry them on days with no wind
> at all.
we dry outside on a nice day. No laws against that .... yet !
when it turns rainey , like today, we have "laundry land" .. that is .
in come the clothes and they get hung up near the wood stove.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 2:13 pm
From: "JonquilJan"
My mother lived without a dryer for years. Clothes were hung in the
basement to dry (took a few days) when the weather prohibited them being
hung outdoors (really smelled good that way!)
I use a laundromat (waher and dryer) for convenience - but often rinse/wash
things out by hand and hang them to dry at home.
JonquilJan
Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying
==============================================================================
TOPIC: the "economy" and "good news" .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3fcb3ffec8403ec3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 3:25 pm
From: rocket scientist
By Miral Fahmy Fri Oct 30, 12:59 am ET
SINGAPORE (Reuters) It seems the financial crisis isn't all doom and
gloom: one in four people are glad the world's economy slumped like it
did, because it helped them realize their priorities in life, according
to a global survey.
Market research firm Synovate polled around 11,400 people across the
world and found more than half had permanently changed their attitudes
toward money over the last 12 months.
for the rest of the story;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091030/lf_nm_life/us_money_survey;_ylt=Agqrn
UJdgrJW1gM.N2JQTMKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJjYTFvb2RlBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMDkxMDMwL3Vz
X21vbmV5X3N1cnZleQRwb3MDNwRzZWMDeW5fbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHNsawN0aGFua2hlYXZlb
nM-
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 4:12 pm
From: Les Cargill
rocket scientist wrote:
> By Miral Fahmy Fri Oct 30, 12:59 am ET
> SINGAPORE (Reuters) It seems the financial crisis isn't all doom and
> gloom: one in four people are glad the world's economy slumped like it
> did, because it helped them realize their priorities in life, according
> to a global survey.
> Market research firm Synovate polled around 11,400 people across the
> world and found more than half had permanently changed their attitudes
> toward money over the last 12 months.
>
> for the rest of the story;
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091030/lf_nm_life/us_money_survey;_ylt=Agqrn
> UJdgrJW1gM.N2JQTMKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJjYTFvb2RlBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMDkxMDMwL3Vz
> X21vbmV5X3N1cnZleQRwb3MDNwRzZWMDeW5fbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHNsawN0aGFua2hlYXZlb
> nM-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)
http://www.povertysucks.net/povsucks.html
--
Les Cargill
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