Frugal Living: Feb 22, 2008

Friday, February 22, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you buy a refurbished Fisher and Paykel washer from Lowes?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609284901b611222?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 12:38 pm
From: me@privacy.net

The local Lowe's here has a Fisher Paykel top loading
washer for sale abt $200 off...... total price of $400

Not sure of the exact model.... they may in fact have
two diff models ... Intuitive and a GL15 or something.

Anyway..... would it be OK to buy such a unit? Would
YOU do it?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 2:03 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Feb 22, 12:38 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> The local Lowe's here has a Fisher Paykel top loading
> washer for sale abt $200 off...... total price of $400
>
> Not sure of the exact model.... they may in fact have
> two diff models ... Intuitive and a GL15 or something.
>
> Anyway..... would it be OK to buy such a unit? Would
> YOU do it?

Probably not since it's a top loader, meaning it's not likely to be
EnergyStar rated and even if it's cheap initially, may be expensive to
run. Don't personally know much about F/P appliances except they're
supposedly high-end? Maybe it'd be worth it for you to check out
reviews on epinions.com ?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 2:24 pm
From: watcher@moog.netaxs.com

In article <cgcur31c5pfaen7i3jt9b9q48hbha4sp23@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net wrote:
> The local Lowe's here has a Fisher Paykel top loading
> washer for sale abt $200 off...... total price of $400
>
> Not sure of the exact model.... they may in fact have
> two diff models ... Intuitive and a GL15 or something.
>
> Anyway..... would it be OK to buy such a unit? Would
> YOU do it?

If the warranty was exactly the same as an unopened unit from the warehouse,
sure.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 3:49 pm
From: Brian Elfert

me@privacy.net writes:

>The local Lowe's here has a Fisher Paykel top loading
>washer for sale abt $200 off...... total price of $400

>Not sure of the exact model.... they may in fact have
>two diff models ... Intuitive and a GL15 or something.

>Anyway..... would it be OK to buy such a unit? Would
>YOU do it?

As long as it was truly refurbished (and not in the back room at Lowes) I
would buy it if it was a model I would buy otherwise. I buy factory
refurbished stuff all the time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free recipes, cookooks...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/991b906bae41c444?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:05 pm
From: lightninsurf

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There is a mix of flowers, fruits, vegetables,
trees, weeds, grasses, vines, shrubs, and other plants.

http://www.Sensodyne.com
get your free sample of ProNamel or
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Netwinner.com - See the new games!
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Get paid 5.00 to join Snapdollars.
With Snapdollars you earn cash by completing free offers
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out new products.

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Free sample of a Dove Haircare.*
- A Walmart free sample offer...

http://www.freestuffestore.com/new.html
latest freebies including free samples,
freeware, webmaster freebies and fun,
informative sites throughout the world
wide web. See the download of the day...

Have a great day!
Happy freebie hunting!
http://www.FreeStuffeStore.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HD-TV converter box rip-off ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a9061c13abe5727?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:20 pm
From: A

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Nicholas wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:28:52 -0800, nospam@noway.net (Ralph) wrote:
>
>> I bought this Microsoft keyboard with a rebate. Carefully read the
>> instructions and filled out the rebate form. Sent it in with a copy of
>> the recept and top of box with the barcode (proof of purchase) like it
>> said. Got a letter back from Microsoft saying I hadn't properly
>> satisified all the conditions of the rebate without telling me what I
>> did wrong or sending anything back. Total bullshit. They ripped me off.
>
> I've had the same happen to me with *mail-in Rebates* from stores like
> Radio Shack and so on. And this has happened to me since years ago.
> IOW, if they say for example $700 for computer, minus $200 mail-in
> Rebate, final price $500, be wary. Very wary.
>
> Don't bet your life or your money you'll ever see that $200 check in
> the mail, because as often as not, I've found these things to be a
> SCAM.
>
> Now if you're willing to pay $700 for the computer, go ahead and buy
> it. But if you're budgeted for $500, and are depending on the mail-in
> Rebate, even if you do everything exactly as they say, you're shooting
> craps with dice. This is my anecdote.
>
> Nick
>
>

Guys, I've been reading the WSJ for over 20 years. Recently (months? ago)
there was a fairly big article on this. Yes, they ship these coupons down
to places like Puerto Rico for processing and they pay, like, a penny per
thousand coupons, and it is all specifically designed to maximize errors,
loss of coupon, misplacement, or the dogs/rats/cockroaches eats some of
the paper, so you never hear from them again.

Yesterdays WSJ, front page, had a big article on how they are "sic"-ing
lawyers onto guys who not just _do_ shoplifting but are even just
_suspects_ (even after--they even gave an example--the police look at the
video tapes and say "you don't have a case") and the stores can detain you
(no lawyer present, intimidate you, and coerce you to sign things, etc.)
and then the lawyers start sending letter asking for thousands of dollars.

Reverse Robbin-Hooding? Reverse shoplifting (i.e. "shoplift" off the
customer and his/her wallet)?

Coupons still work in the grocery stores where its all processed right in
front of you noses. Mail in stuff? I look the other way now.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:22 pm
From: A

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:02:28 -0500, A <arthures@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> You know these set top boxes coming out soon so you can get HDTV to come
>> through your old regular TV? (because analog transmission is ordered by
>> the govt to stop next February?).
>>
>> So, I tried to use their website to "apply for" those coupons worth $40.
>
>> And, after filling out the form, it bombed me off with an error (after
>> telling me I had to allow them to set a cookie). I tried several times AND
>> with two different web browsers.
>
> It worked fine for me. I haven't gotten the coupons yet but they did
> say it would take a while.
>
>> Next trick: I decided to call their 800 number on the telephone and make a
>> voice "application" for the coupons. So what happened? Its all robot voice
>> menus and you never talk to a human being. It asks a lot of question
>> including what is your home phone number and then that phone number is
>> looked up by their computer because it then, by robot voice, asks "is
>> __X__ your address" and punch "1" if correct, then it asks my name and
>> spell it out, and asks if correct press "1" and then, guess, what ... it
>> comes back (the robot voice) and says "you are not elligible for a coupon"
>> and if I want to appeal that I have to send a letter and they give a
>> confirmation letter.
>>
>> I have not seen any articles that explain who is or is not elligible for a
>> coupon.
>
> Pretty much says on their website. Basically you have to have no
> access to broadcast TV except conventional analog broadcast (which is
> ending). If you have cable, satellite, other or if you have a TV that
> can get the over the air broadcasts you are ineligible.

They definitely did NOT tell me, in the robot voice, WHY I was not
elligible.

>> This, and all the money they spend to check up on "eligibility" with
>> database accesses sure seems like a big waste, a big betrayal, and a big
>> doublecross to me.
>>
>> And, if I fill out the form with pen/pensil and mail it in, what secret
>> criteria could they come up with to deny or otherwise say I'm not
>> elligible for the coupon now?
>>
>> Are they collecting all this data for a database? For what?
>
> Your name and address are pretty much a matter of public record and so
> are most phone numbers. I suppose whether you choose to buy cable is
> your business but cable is regulated so I'm sure the Congress Critters
> required them to anti up the data.

Over the air HDTV is not cable.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:26 pm
From: A

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Jeff wrote:

> A wrote:
>>
>>
>> You know these set top boxes coming out soon so you can get HDTV to come
>> through your old regular TV? (because analog transmission is ordered by the
>> govt to stop next February?).
>>
>> So, I tried to use their website to "apply for" those coupons worth $40.
>
> Call it a blessing in disguise.
>
> Have you seen any of these converter boxes in the stores?
>
> If I were you, I'd wait until late, remember the coupons expire in 3 month.
> The variety and prices will both be much lower then.

Well, the problem is that somewhere I read where there is a maximum amount
of money available for the boxes. When the money runs out, no more
coupons.

> You have until next February, Also, go check out antennaweb.org to see what
> kind of antenna you will need.

I'll tr to keep that in mind. I heard a rumor by the way that in-line
amplifiers help HDTV reception and are not limited by internal noise
figure; i.e. the guy that told me this said you can add these amplifiers
in series and the picture gets better. It doesn't work that way with
analog. I'll believe it when I see it, but for us, the 3 TV stations are
far away.

> Jeff
>>
>> And, after filling out the form, it bombed me off with an error (after
>> telling me I had to allow them to set a cookie). I tried several times AND
>> with two different web browsers.
>>
>> Next trick: I decided to call their 800 number on the telephone and make a
>> voice "application" for the coupons. So what happened? Its all robot voice
>> menus and you never talk to a human being. It asks a lot of question
>> including what is your home phone number and then that phone number is
>> looked up by their computer because it then, by robot voice, asks "is __X__
>> your address" and punch "1" if correct, then it asks my name and spell it
>> out, and asks if correct press "1" and then, guess, what ... it comes back
>> (the robot voice) and says "you are not elligible for a coupon" and if I
>> want to appeal that I have to send a letter and they give a
>> confirmation letter.
>>
>> I have not seen any articles that explain who is or is not elligible for a
>> coupon.
>>
>> This, and all the money they spend to check up on "eligibility" with
>> database accesses sure seems like a big waste, a big betrayal, and a big
>> doublecross to me.
>>
>> And, if I fill out the form with pen/pensil and mail it in, what secret
>> criteria could they come up with to deny or otherwise say I'm not elligible
>> for the coupon now?
>>
>> Are they collecting all this data for a database? For what?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:31 pm
From: sarge137

On Feb 22, 1:37 pm, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> sarge137 wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 10:07 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> Winston_Smith wrote:
>
> >>> Pretty much says on their website. Basically you have to have no
> >>> access to broadcast TV except conventional analog broadcast (which is
> >>> ending). If you have cable, satellite, other or if you have a TV that
> >>> can get the over the air broadcasts you are ineligible.
> >> So if one has cable, one is obliged to buy/rent a cable box on one's own?
>
> >> --
> >> Evelyn C. Leeper
> >> Heretic: someone who disagrees with you about
> >> something neither of you knows anything about.
>
> > No. Only people who still receive television over the air will need
> > the converter boxes. The cable and satellite companies are already
> > delivering digital signals, and your existing set top box is all
> > you'll need.
>
> What existing set top box? We don't have one.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Heretic: someone who disagrees with you about
> something neither of you knows anything about.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I guess if your cable company is providing "basic" cable in analog
without a set top box, you'll need to get one. Didn't think anyone
was still doing that. Once the analog broadcasts are replaced by
digital there'll be nothing for them to deliver unless they do a "head
end" conversion - which I don't think is likely. I'm pretty sure the
converters being discussed here won't do that for you because they're
designed to convert over the air digital to analog. It's an
interesting question. Maybe another reader can comment.

I changed from cable to a satellite provider last year, so nothing
works at my house without a set top box. Before that, as long as I
had a cable connection in the room, I was able to attach a "cable
ready" TV and tune in whatever programming was available on channels 2
through 99 without a box. Over the several months before I made the
switch my cable company was moving most of those channels to the
digital side (channels above 120 on my system). By the time I changed
about the only thing available on the analog side were my local
network stations, PBS and a few news, weather and shopping channels.

Regards,
Sarge

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 4:01 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"sarge137" <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:772fc956-f358-4d2c-ae2b-d4f1c376ee77@41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 20, 10:07 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Winston_Smith wrote:
>
> > Pretty much says on their website. Basically you have to have no
> > access to broadcast TV except conventional analog broadcast (which is
> > ending). If you have cable, satellite, other or if you have a TV that
> > can get the over the air broadcasts you are ineligible.
>
> So if one has cable, one is obliged to buy/rent a cable box on one's own?
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Heretic: someone who disagrees with you about
> something neither of you knows anything about.

No. Only people who still receive television over the air will need
the converter boxes. The cable and satellite companies are already
delivering digital signals, and your existing set top box is all
you'll need. High def is an entirely different matter, and these
converters don't deliver that anyway. Getting over the air high def
will require a high def television with a compatible tuner, and for
best results a special antenna. From what I read, over the air high
def is better than what's delivered by the cable/dish providers
because it's not compressed. Maybe a techie who reads this group can
explain it.

i believe this is what broadcast engineer dh told me.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 4:29 pm
From: sarge137

On Feb 22, 2:26 pm, A <arthu...@panix.com> wrote:

> Well, the problem is that somewhere I read where there is a maximum amount
> of money available for the boxes. When the money runs out, no more
> coupons.

That's right. I don't remember the exact figure, but there's enough
money to give coupons to about 75% of the estimated households that
still use antennas for TV reception. When it's gone, the program is
over. The coupons expire, so while the program is active the money
from expired coupons goes back into the fund - but it still ends when
the last of them are issued, even if there are a bunch of unexpired
and unused coupons still out there.
>
> > You have until next February, Also, go check out antennaweb.org to see what
> > kind of antenna you will need.
>
> I'll tr to keep that in mind. I heard a rumor by the way that in-line
> amplifiers help HDTV reception and are not limited by internal noise
> figure; i.e. the guy that told me this said you can add these amplifiers
> in series and the picture gets better. It doesn't work that way with
> analog. I'll believe it when I see it, but for us, the 3 TV stations are
> far away.

I think you're right here too. In fact, I don't think you can amplify
digital signals at all. From what I've read, and I've only just
started studying this, it's all or nothing. If you're in range, right
out to the furthest edge of the transmission, the picture and sound
lock in crystal clear. If you're out of range you're out of luck -
cable or satellite are your only options. There's no "fringe" area
like with analog. And there's no "skipping" of the signals like with
analog. Many years ago I lived in a high rise apartment in
Washington, DC. It had a master antenna mounted on the roof.
Sometimes late at night, or when there were high clouds in just the
right spot I could tune in a couple of the Baltimore stations, even
though I was way outside the normal range. That's going to disappear
with digital also.

Regards,
Sarge

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 4:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote
> A <arthu...@panix.com> wrote

>> Well, the problem is that somewhere I read where there
>> is a maximum amount of money available for the boxes.
>> When the money runs out, no more coupons.

> That's right. I don't remember the exact figure, but there's enough
> money to give coupons to about 75% of the estimated households
> that still use antennas for TV reception. When it's gone, the program
> is over. The coupons expire, so while the program is active the
> money from expired coupons goes back into the fund - but it still
> ends when the last of them are issued, even if there are a bunch
> of unexpired and unused coupons still out there.

>>> You have until next February, Also, go check out antennaweb.org
>>> to see what kind of antenna you will need.

>> I'll tr to keep that in mind. I heard a rumor by the way that in-line
>> amplifiers help HDTV reception and are not limited by internal noise
>> figure; i.e. the guy that told me this said you can add these
>> amplifiers in series and the picture gets better. It doesn't work
>> that way with analog. I'll believe it when I see it, but for us, the
>> 3 TV stations are far away.

> I think you're right here too.

You say the exact opposite in the next sentance and you're wrong below.

> In fact, I don't think you can amplify digital signals at all.

Corse you can.

> From what I've read, and I've only just started studying this, it's all or nothing.

Wrong.

> If you're in range, right out to the furthest edge of the transmission,
> the picture and sound lock in crystal clear. If you're out of range
> you're out of luck - cable or satellite are your only options.

Wrong when the problem is an inadequate antenna.

> There's no "fringe" area like with analog.

What you are utterly mangling is that with digital it either works or it
doesnt. You dont get the equivalent of a very snowy picture. Thats
an entirely separate matter to whether it can be amplified or not.

> And there's no "skipping" of the signals like with analog.

Wrong again. And again, you're confusing ghosts with skip.

> Many years ago I lived in a high rise apartment in Washington, DC.
> It had a master antenna mounted on the roof. Sometimes late at
> night, or when there were high clouds in just the right spot I could
> tune in a couple of the Baltimore stations, even though I was way
> outside the normal range. That's going to disappear with digital also.

Wrong, that effect will still happen.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 5:00 pm
From: sarge137

On Feb 22, 5:49 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> sarge137 <rbooth9...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > A <arthu...@panix.com> wrote
> >> Well, the problem is that somewhere I read where there
> >> is a maximum amount of money available for the boxes.
> >> When the money runs out, no more coupons.
> > That's right. I don't remember the exact figure, but there's enough
> > money to give coupons to about 75% of the estimated households
> > that still use antennas for TV reception. When it's gone, the program
> > is over. The coupons expire, so while the program is active the
> > money from expired coupons goes back into the fund - but it still
> > ends when the last of them are issued, even if there are a bunch
> > of unexpired and unused coupons still out there.
> >>> You have until next February, Also, go check out antennaweb.org
> >>> to see what kind of antenna you will need.
> >> I'll tr to keep that in mind. I heard a rumor by the way that in-line
> >> amplifiers help HDTV reception and are not limited by internal noise
> >> figure; i.e. the guy that told me this said you can add these
> >> amplifiers in series and the picture gets better. It doesn't work
> >> that way with analog. I'll believe it when I see it, but for us, the
> >> 3 TV stations are far away.
> > I think you're right here too.
>
> You say the exact opposite in the next sentance and you're wrong below.
>
> > In fact, I don't think you can amplify digital signals at all.
>
> Corse you can.
>
> > From what I've read, and I've only just started studying this, it's all or nothing.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > If you're in range, right out to the furthest edge of the transmission,
> > the picture and sound lock in crystal clear. If you're out of range
> > you're out of luck - cable or satellite are your only options.
>
> Wrong when the problem is an inadequate antenna.
>
> > There's no "fringe" area like with analog.
>
> What you are utterly mangling is that with digital it either works or it
> doesnt. You dont get the equivalent of a very snowy picture. Thats
> an entirely separate matter to whether it can be amplified or not.
>
> > And there's no "skipping" of the signals like with analog.
>
> Wrong again. And again, you're confusing ghosts with skip.
>
> > Many years ago I lived in a high rise apartment in Washington, DC.
> > It had a master antenna mounted on the roof. Sometimes late at
> > night, or when there were high clouds in just the right spot I could
> > tune in a couple of the Baltimore stations, even though I was way
> > outside the normal range. That's going to disappear with digital also.
>
> Wrong, that effect will still happen.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ok, Rod.

Like I said I just started reading up on this.

Instead of being your usual smart-assed argumentative self, how about
helping me out here. Can you steer me to some information sources to
verify what you say, which is 180 degreees opposite of what I've
read.

Sarge

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 5:25 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> sarge137 <rbooth9...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> A <arthu...@panix.com> wrote

>>>> Well, the problem is that somewhere I read where there
>>>> is a maximum amount of money available for the boxes.
>>>> When the money runs out, no more coupons.

>>> That's right. I don't remember the exact figure, but there's enough
>>> money to give coupons to about 75% of the estimated households
>>> that still use antennas for TV reception. When it's gone, the program
>>> is over. The coupons expire, so while the program is active the
>>> money from expired coupons goes back into the fund - but it still
>>> ends when the last of them are issued, even if there are a bunch
>>> of unexpired and unused coupons still out there.

>>>>> You have until next February, Also, go check out
>>>>> antennaweb.org to see what kind of antenna you will need.

>>>> I'll tr to keep that in mind. I heard a rumor by the way that
>>>> in-line amplifiers help HDTV reception and are not limited by
>>>> internal noise figure; i.e. the guy that told me this said you can
>>>> add these amplifiers in series and the picture gets better. It
>>>> doesn't work that way with analog. I'll believe it when I see it,
>>>> but for us, the 3 TV stations are far away.

>>> I think you're right here too.

>> You say the exact opposite in the next sentance and you're wrong below.

>>> In fact, I don't think you can amplify digital signals at all.

>> Corse you can.

>>> From what I've read, and I've only just started studying this, it's all or nothing.

>> Wrong.

>>> If you're in range, right out to the furthest edge of the transmission,
>>> the picture and sound lock in crystal clear. If you're out of range
>>> you're out of luck - cable or satellite are your only options.

>> Wrong when the problem is an inadequate antenna.

>>> There's no "fringe" area like with analog.

>> What you are utterly mangling is that with digital it either works
>> or it doesnt. You dont get the equivalent of a very snowy picture.
>> Thats an entirely separate matter to whether it can be amplified or not.

>>> And there's no "skipping" of the signals like with analog.

>> Wrong again. And again, you're confusing ghosts with skip.

>>> Many years ago I lived in a high rise apartment in Washington, DC.
>>> It had a master antenna mounted on the roof. Sometimes late at
>>> night, or when there were high clouds in just the right spot I could
>>> tune in a couple of the Baltimore stations, even though I was way
>>> outside the normal range. That's going to disappear with digital also.

>> Wrong, that effect will still happen.

> Ok, Rod.

> Like I said I just started reading up on this.

> Instead of being your usual smart-assed argumentative self,

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

> how about helping me out here. Can you steer me
> to some information sources to verify what you say,

Nope, because I've been doing this stuff for decades now and have
been using digital TV for a few years now, and use an amplifier fine.

> which is 180 degreees opposite of what I've read.

No it isnt. You're just completely mangling what they actually say.

Bet you cant actually cite anything that says that the digital signal cant be amplified,
or that supports any of the other claims you made above, except the all or nothing
line which is certainly true of a particular config of antenna, amplifier etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Forget oil, short the stock market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f319c22ae17e49be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 2:09 pm
From: "RodSpeed,_dividends_and_cash_flow_are_bubblicious"

On Feb 22, 12:04 pm, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Keep in mind that when but buy a stock your losses are limited to
> your investment but when you go short the losses have no limit.

Ok, except the short exchange traded funds are something you go long
on. Buy one at $50/share and if market goes down, that $50 goes up. If
market goes up, that $50 goes down to zero, maybe. Most to lose is $50
per share. If you short Google at $500 share and let the stock go up
past $550, you are in the red for over $50. This is the beauty of
short ETFs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ObamaNation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3420964382ee415d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 2:40 pm
From: "RodSpeed,_dividends_and_cash_flow_are_bubblicious"

On Feb 22, 2:15 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Africa will be the final place for globalization -
>
> We'll see...
>
> > by that time, the rest of the world will look like Africa today (economically)
>
> Fantasy.

Never visited Africa. Have you RodSpeed?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 3:36 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

RodSpeed,_dividends_and_cash_flow_are_bubblicious <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Africa will be the final place for globalization -

>> We'll see...

>>> by that time, the rest of the world will look like Africa today (economically)

>> Fantasy.

> Never visited Africa. Have you RodSpeed?

Wrong, as always.

And you dont have to visit a place to get a clear idea about what its like anyway.

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TOPIC: Landscaping Shrubs: Spruce Up Your Yard
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 2 ==
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 5:43 pm
From: aidenbradysmom

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> can use to subsidize my income.
>
> The first scam is cash crate.
>
> The second site that I am extremely excited about is Yuwie. It is
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>
>
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>
> Love ya all,
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>

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25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

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TOPIC: Get Rich off of 12 dollars
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:08 am
From: jimdizzle

go to http://jimdizzle420.angelfire.com/ for more details

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TOPIC: Predictions on oil costs for next decade
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d8ed6676617cb7f?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 1:07 am
From: Jimington

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:28:40 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jimington <wvzubqtr@gfa.pp> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> RodSpeed,_the_EWA_fund_is_doing_great <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote
>
>>>>> Well if it were cheap and easy they would already be using
>>>>> is on a mass scale. They are not. We are just about at the
>>>>> end of cheap oil. The ways and places to get oil from this
>>>>> point forward are going to be more expensive.
>
>>>> Oil = energy.
>
>>>> Plenty of other sources of energy. Thing is, if far way
>>>> places start building their energy policy on non-oil sources
>>>> little by little, how will that make the oil companies feel?
>
>>> Who cares ?
>
>>>> We have nuclear (not green, but an alternative...
>
>>> Its very green, no CO2 produced by the power generation process.
>
>> But that CO2 provides the building blocks for the plants to make the green stuff,
>
>Yes, but they did that fine with the CO2 levels seen before the industrial revolution.
>
>> so that's not even a negative.
>
>It does arguably increase the temperature of the surface.

Perhaps a tenuous argument at best. Bear in mind we do need the
greenhouse effect to merely make the planet livable. Whether there can
be any radical increase is a moot point.
>
>> For a power source that has no real negatives
>
>The most obvious one is that countrys like North Korea can produce bombs using them.

Even they must be aware that doing a bit of bomb practice in naughty
areas may well end up in their country being reduced to a lake or sea.
However since their government has shown how much it cares about its
own people, maybe they would be that stupid.
>
>> it's surprising there's so much resistance to it.
>
>> Our country even has a vast area that is quite suited to nuclear waste disposal,
>
>And big areas which have lots of naturally ocurring radioactive substances too.

Vast areas are still a no-go area from testing 50 years ago. It's hard
to imagine any country being stupid enough to allow a foreign country
to lay waste to a huge area but we did suck up to one then.
At least they used an un(der)populated area which isn't part of the
artesian basin.
>
>> and would probably also provide a healthy boost to
>> the economy of the state that's best suited for it. SA.
>
>They appear to be too stupid to realise that tho.
>
I suppose it doesn't sound pretty to be the nuclear garbage dump for
the world but with it being stable politically and geologically, where
better in the world to reduce a growing problem.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 22 2008 11:23 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Jimington <wvzubqtr@gfa.pp> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jimington <wvzubqtr@gfa.pp> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> RodSpeed,_the_EWA_fund_is_doing_great <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote

>>>>>> Well if it were cheap and easy they would already be using
>>>>>> is on a mass scale. They are not. We are just about at the
>>>>>> end of cheap oil. The ways and places to get oil from this
>>>>>> point forward are going to be more expensive.

>>>>> Oil = energy.

>>>>> Plenty of other sources of energy. Thing is, if far way
>>>>> places start building their energy policy on non-oil sources
>>>>> little by little, how will that make the oil companies feel?

>>>> Who cares ?

>>>>> We have nuclear (not green, but an alternative...

>>>> Its very green, no CO2 produced by the power generation process.

>>> But that CO2 provides the building blocks for the plants to make the green stuff,

>> Yes, but they did that fine with the CO2 levels seen before the industrial revolution.

>>> so that's not even a negative.

>> It does arguably increase the temperature of the surface.

> Perhaps a tenuous argument at best.

Not really.

> Bear in mind we do need the greenhouse effect to merely make the planet livable.

Sure, but clearly there is a greenhouse effect to do that.

> Whether there can be any radical increase is a moot point.

Doesnt need to be radical to be undesirable.

>>> For a power source that has no real negatives

>> The most obvious one is that countrys like
>> North Korea can produce bombs using them.

> Even they must be aware that doing a bit of bomb practice in naughty
> areas may well end up in their country being reduced to a lake or sea.

Its actually about deterrence. It is clear why countrys like North Korea
are keen on having some of that with Iraq and Afghanistan etc.

> However since their government has shown how much it
> cares about its own people, maybe they would be that stupid.

Yeah, likely we'll never know because no one will be
game to try it with South Korea and Japan so close.

We werent prepared to use ours in the Korean war either.

>>> it's surprising there's so much resistance to it.

>>> Our country even has a vast area that is quite suited to nuclear waste disposal,

>> And big areas which have lots of naturally ocurring radioactive substances too.

> Vast areas are still a no-go area from testing 50 years ago.

Nar, they're not no-go.

> It's hard to imagine any country being stupid enough to allow a foreign
> country to lay waste to a huge area but we did suck up to one then.

Two of those countrys did it to their own country. Its not surprising that the poms didnt.

> At least they used an un(der)populated area which isn't part of the artesian basin.

Yeah, and it has only a trivial effect now.

>>> and would probably also provide a healthy boost to
>>> the economy of the state that's best suited for it. SA.

>> They appear to be too stupid to realise that tho.

> I suppose it doesn't sound pretty to be the nuclear garbage dump for the world

Yeah, thats the main problem, and the transit of that stuff to get it there.

> but with it being stable politically and geologically,
> where better in the world to reduce a growing problem.

Yeah, I think we should do that myself.

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TOPIC: Don't forget me
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== 1 of 1 ==
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Blog Archive

Friday, February 22, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest