Frugal Living: Feb 8, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: DIY liquid chlorinator
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/843d8a7be9f91d01?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 12:28 am
From: Anthony

I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
household bleach.

Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
use/know about bleach dispensers?
Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.

Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?

Thanks in advance!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 5:16 am
From: giroup01@videotron.ca

> Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?

http://www.ezpool.com/index.htm

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 5:18 am
From: Frank

Anthony wrote:
> I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
> require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
> am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
> am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
> when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
> However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
> could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
> myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
> household bleach.
>
> Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
> Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
> typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
> use/know about bleach dispensers?
> Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
> month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
> integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
> go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
> drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
> month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
> currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
> approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
> effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
> household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
>
> Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
>
> Thanks in advance!

Having worked as a chemist in industry, I can tell you that continuous
processes require continuous monitoring. I would prefer a system that
did not always need my attention.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 10:41 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Frank <frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet> wrote:
> Anthony wrote:
>> I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
>> require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
>> am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
>> am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
>> when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
>> However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes
>> I could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do
>> it myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start
>> using household bleach.
>>
>> Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
>> Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
>> typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
>> use/know about bleach dispensers?
>> Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
>> month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
>> integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
>> go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a
>> 60 drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of
>> bleach/ month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks
>> (where I currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would
>> achieve approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end effect of this is for <$20 I could build
>> my dispenser and
>> start using household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
>>
>> Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>
> Having worked as a chemist in industry, I can tell you that continuous
> processes require continuous monitoring. I would prefer a system that
> did not always need my attention.

Doesnt mean that the continuous monitoring has to be done by an individual.

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TOPIC: cell phone plan - pay as you go - daily access fee
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5bb1a0780187549d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 6:35 am
From: "rox"

"mehlREMOVETHIS@cyvest.com" <mehl@cyvest.com> wrote in message
news:2f80e6cb-9eba-4727-8ff7-e91ae349d72a@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hello --
>
> My AT&T plan ($10 special at Radio Shack) charges $1/day "only on days
> you use your phone"; airtime costs $0.10/min.
>
> Can anyone recommend a pay as you go plan that does not have a cost/
> day access fee?
> Or, is such a fee pretty typical for this type of service?
>
> Thanks for any help or suggestions.
>
> L Mehl
>
I think Virgin's deal sounds the best but TracFone used to have a pretty
good deal too. You might want to look at them. It does depend on your
usage pattern. I used to have ATT but then life changes made a cell phone
plan a better bargain for me so I got a regular plan.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 7:26 am
From: Dawn

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:00:35 -0000, Dan Birchall
<nobody@imaginary-host.danbirchall.com> wrote:

>bashley101+usenet@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
>> Ralph's sells its own brand of chunk cheese every few weeks for
>> 2 libs/$7.
>(But how much are the conservatives?)
>
>> ...The 'extra sharp' variety is NEVER included in the sale price.
>B@stards! That's the best kind!
>
>> The last time I asked the checker to scan it first and made a LOUD stink
>> about consistent (over years) deceptive sales practices and refused to buy
>> it. A few days later (and still within the sale period) the price of the
>> extra-sharp was reduced to the 2#/$7 of the other varieties.
>You go, Bev!

Wowowowowow. It's Dan. Glad to see you here. Miss having you post
often.
Dawn, who keeps up with you at multiply, but can't say 'hi' there.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: What is your water usage?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bd562b37685d1e02?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 7:32 am
From: Dawn

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:24:04 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
<derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>
>> Bad, bad math. I forgot a step. We use 2750 a month ave. this time
>> of year.
>> Dawn, feeling a whole lot better now.
>
>yeah, but chickpea used 33k!!!
>>
>
Yeah, but he is a chickpea and needed to keep hydrated in the Florida
sun.
Dawn, still thinking of conserving some more.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 6:47 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:49:48 -0000, gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
wrote:

>I didn't think you were engaged in any major projects at the moment; have
>you been building decks by yourself? :-)

Nope. Like you, business stuff has kept me busy.

>Got the email, but ended up being very busy at work recently. Sorry I
>haven't gotten back to you on that.

Kinda figured you were swamped.

>Same here; while the big cell was cruising along north of I565, I was
>out back watching the lightning--it wasn't even raining on me, even
>though the NEXRAD showed a wide band of precipitation. Wierd.

Sometimes I think there is something to the old sky gods theories.
Contrast that with the experience I had in south Florida, where it was
raining out of a CLEAR sky. Not a cloud in sight, warm day, no
overflying airplanes or blue ice, just rain falling out of the blue.

>> The creek was full from
>>the rain, and I noticed a run-off problem that I'm going to need to
>>address.
>
>That should give you a good indication of a high water mark; how far
>up the guest house pilings did it get? Where was the runn-off issue?

Oh, the pilings are a good seven feet or more above the normal flood
stage. The water was sheeting about six inches thick over the entire
waterfall area. The runoff issue is in the area where the storm
cellar will go. Not only did the pit fill, it kept overflowing and
running down to the footer of the house. Not good, I'll probably have
to punch a hole on each side of the foundation and run a pvc pipe
along the top of the footer to have it drain out the other side.
There is no digging down, since the ledge is there, and I'd rather not
trust to electric pumps for keeping the storm cellar area dry, since
the power might go out when pumping was needed most.

>> I also realize that I'm going to need a settling tank for
>>any continuous water draw from the stream. The riled up sediment had
>>it pretty brown. Once the major freezing time is past I want to fool
>>around with a ram pump I made.
>
>Perhaps a tank down by the stream? No point in pumping the sediment
>uphill.

I might put it up about to where the ram pump or other stream powered
pump can pump it easily, and then use electric to pump from there as
needed. No money for it now anyway, it'll give me time to consider
options.

>However, most of that sediment will have been washed off the surrounding
>fields, and is likely going to be high in chemicals. I doubt the water
>will stay cloudy for long, so a holding tank that you fill when it's
>running clear might work as well.

I guess a float ball on the intake (like in a wet vac) could stop a
ram pump during high flow.

>This is a good time to be pruning your peach tree, BTW.

I'm not sure how much life is left in those, but I'll do that. I can
use the wood anyway.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 1:14 pm
From: Jeff

George wrote:
> Dawn wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:58:27 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I just had a chance to do some comparisons, and I'm stunned how much
>>> less water we are using in our manufactured home in Alabama than we
>>> were in our old home in south Florida. There are a number of factors
>>> involved, including climate, but the variations in useage bear
>>> examining.
>>>
>>> If you want to compare from your own water bills, a hundred cubic feet
>>> of water is 750 gallons.
>>>
>>
>> for a quick second there I was very unhappy. I just got a bill in the
>> past couple of weeks and did the math. Used 55000 gallons of water.
>> I was like soooo annoyed and thinking that is way too much water we
>> are using. Looking at my past useage it was right in line with what
>> we used the last two years at this time. Then I remembered.....it is
>> a two month bill. Whew. 27500 is still a lot of water but not quite
>> so bad for a month.
>> Dawn, still thinking we could do better.
>
> We use ~2,000 gallons/month for two people. That includes laundry and an
> automatic dishwasher.

My understanding is that automatic dishwashers use less water than
what most people use hand washing dishes.

Jeff

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 2:06 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Dawn wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:58:27 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I just had a chance to do some comparisons, and I'm stunned how much
>> less water we are using in our manufactured home in Alabama than we
>> were in our old home in south Florida. There are a number of factors
>> involved, including climate, but the variations in useage bear
>> examining.
>>
>> If you want to compare from your own water bills, a hundred cubic feet
>> of water is 750 gallons.
>>
>
> for a quick second there I was very unhappy. I just got a bill in the
> past couple of weeks and did the math. Used 55000 gallons of water.
> I was like soooo annoyed and thinking that is way too much water we
> are using. Looking at my past useage it was right in line with what
> we used the last two years at this time. Then I remembered.....it is
> a two month bill. Whew. 27500 is still a lot of water but not quite
> so bad for a month.
> Dawn, still thinking we could do better.

My husband and I use about 7000 gallons every three months (or about 78
gallons/day). Obviously the size of the household has some effect on
your usage, but 27,500 gallons per month sounds ... excessive. You
might want to check your math.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Life is complex--it has real and imaginary parts. --anonymous

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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 8:11 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Hums cause it doesn't know the words.

Might be a bad start capacitor. Best to replace the unit. Bad environment,
wet all the time. Being fed garbage all day. Who'd want to work like that?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:McOqj.65465$K%.43451@trnddc04...

vegetable peel slushies for the whole town? :) so even though it hums, the
motor could be bad?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 8:12 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Too much internal friction. Beyond repair, I'd say.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JeOqj.65466$K%.15074@trnddc04...

tried the ole push it around with a stick inside, but couldn't get it to
budge. that's usually not a good sign.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 9:09 am
From: Jeff

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Hums cause it doesn't know the words.
>
> Might be a bad start capacitor. Best to replace the unit. Bad environment,
> wet all the time. Being fed garbage all day. Who'd want to work like that?

That's roughly my guess. Every motor needs a little help to get
started and yours would appear to have lost that. If you took an old
wooden spoon and gave it a push in the right direction it would probably
run, but who wants to do that every time.

I don't know what kind of motor that is but some of them have a
centrifical switch to kick out the starting winding and that could also
have gotten bad.

I've never heard of anyone fixing a garbage disposal, it is doable,
but the since they are so cheap, even I would opt for a new.

Jeff
>

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 12:48 pm
From: Jeff

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> "Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0810674f-e3d1-4571-890b-5000b117a41b@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>> when i used it this morning, it stopped spinning, but still hums. i can
>>> find nothing in it that's causing it. i pushed the button on the bottom
>>> and used the allen wrench on the bottome to turn it, but it just hums and
>>> won't turn.
>>>
>>> anyone know what the problem might be?
>> If it won't turn, especially if you can't turn it with the wrench
>> either, the motor must be locked up. Of course, you look down the
>> drain and try to move the mechanism in both directions in case
>> something is jambed. Over a period of time, water get into the
>> bearings and they rust up. Beyond what you are doing, and perhaps more
>> aggressively in both directions, it sounds like time to go shopping.
>> They are not very expensive or difficult to install. If you do
>> purchase a new one, finding one exactly the same as you have makes
>> changing it easier.
>
> it was here when we bought the place 7 yrs ago. it will turn w/the wrench.
> tried the ole push it around with a stick inside, but couldn't get it to
> budge. that's usually not a good sign.

Oh, You probably have more crap stuck in the works.

Clean it out as best as you can and work it back and forth until it
will start. Perhaps with a push from a wooden spoon. They need to be
able to spin freely before they will start.

If you've ever loosened up a rusted bolt you'll know how to do this.
Forward and back repeatedly until one spot loosens and then move on
until it's loose all the way around.

You can always look in the disposal and clean around the edges, with it
unplugged of course.

Jeff
>
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 2:25 pm
From: clams_casino

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

>when i used it this morning, it stopped spinning, but still hums. i can
>find nothing in it that's causing it. i pushed the button on the bottom
>and used the allen wrench on the bottome to turn it, but it just hums and
>won't turn.
>
>anyone know what the problem might be?
>
>
>
>

That happened to us about a month ago. Pieces of a collar are rusting
& breaking off, jamming the unit.

I was able to work the unit manually with the wrench that came with the
unit & the small piece of rusted metal caught on the edge of the blades
finally broke loose & evidently ground up when I started the unit since
it was no longer present.

Best guess is something is jamming the unit.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has college dropout done the impossible and created a perpetual motion
machine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2ebb35c6e713de31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 8:12 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

"campaigning politician"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 11:16 am
From: max

In article <YaOqj.65464$K%.63358@trnddc04>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e4e2fb3e-62f1-4880-93ea-6c269ba161a2@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 7, 5:17 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Thane Heins is nervous and hopeful. It's Jan. 24, a Thursday afternoon,
> >> and in four days the Ottawa-area native will travel to Boston where he'll
> >> demonstrate an invention that appears - though he doesn't dare say it -
> >> to operate as a perpetual motion machine.
> >>
> >> The audience, esteemed Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor
> >> Markus Zahn, could either deflate Heins' heretical claims or add momentum
> >> to a 20-year obsession that has broken up his marriage and lost him
> >> custody
> >> of his two young daughters.
> >>
> >> Zahn is a leading expert on electromagnetic and electronic systems. In a
> >> rare move for any reputable academic, he has agreed to give Heins'
> >> creation an open-minded look rather than greet it with outright
> >> dismissal.
> >>
> >> It's a pivotal moment. The invention, at its very least, could moderately
> >> improve the efficiency of induction motors, used in everything from
> >> electric cars to ceiling fans. At best it means a way of tapping the
> >> mysterious powers of electromagnetic fields to produce more work out
> >> of less effort, seemingly creating electricity from nothing.
> >>
> >> more at the toronto star:
> >>
> > It's not even a good tabloid news story.
>
> this isn't the tabloid called the star. it's the TORONTO STAR.
>
> > Wake me when I can drive something efficient.
> > These stories have been around forever. Let's see a patent, a
> > prototype, and a working model. There won't be any shortage of
> > investors at that point.
>
> it seems he showed a working model to the mit guy.
>
> > There used to be a guy, named Joe Newman I believe, who supposedly had
> > an energy machine that would power a full sized car with a D cell
> > battery to get the regenerative process started. He had some phoney
> > demonstration before getting laughed out of town.
>
> if this is the guy i'm thinking of, he did hook his machine up to a power
> source.
> >

i've seen the video. It's a bullshit machine that uses bullshit. It is
nothing more than a complicated arrangement of permanent magnets and a
couple of inductors/electromagnets. It has to be spun-up by hand. It
is simply storing energy in the fields of the electro magnets and very
very very slowly, very parsimoniously, releasing that stored energy back
into the system to keep the rotor spinning. It's not even a good motor,
it's simply geometrically constructed is such a fashion as to give it
lots of angular momentum.

If it had the value of a spoiled mouse dropping it would be connected to
a measured load, and it would be shown to produce more energy than the
mechanical energy imparted during the spin up process.

For that matter, simply measuring the rotational frequency, with great
precision, would tell the tale. Such a measurement will show the
machine to be continuously slowing, but at a rate impossible to detect
w/o precision electronic measurement. An optical shaft encoder would be
sufficient to put this bullshit to rest in less than a minute. In the
meantime, imagine the impossibility of eyeballing a change of 300 rpm to
299.5 rpm over a minute or ten. Trivial with an instrument.

It would also be shown to have all wired shorted together before the
beginning fo the test, and all pole pieces an elecromagnets tested with
a gauss probe before attaching the rotor or unmasking the permanent
magnet pole faces. Or, for that matter, even springs or spring-like
components. Or phase change tricks or any other sort of stored energy.

Showing a collection of digital voltage meters measuring whatever is
basically bullshit. Systems like the putative gadget simply operate with
such high hysterisis and spikey discharge characeristics that
conventional meters, like your standard Fluke DVM, can't catch all the
high frequency energy flow.

Clever techies build things like this all the time. The honest ones
simply call the what they are: kinetic magnetic scupltures.

i'm sorry, but its bullshit bullshit bullshit and the guy working on it
is either a) tragically deluded or b) just another piece of crap scam
artist.

He strongly reminds me of a lying scammer i once knew, someone who
seemed earnest and sincere but was actually anything but.

--
The part of betatron @ earthlink . net was played by a garden gnome

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today Message :
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/46b316f1def908a3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 8:13 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I just hate people who spam usenet.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

<nandhiniraj79@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6cbcdc30-8288-4c4d-a30e-438c5960eb4b@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Today Message :

Complaining about others is often an admission of one's own
incompetence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Your vacation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83ec6afd854d1b73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 8:16 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Aren't they at war with the Serbs?

Be sure to pack in your beach bag: Sunscreen, plenty of cold drinks, beach
towel, sunglasses, AK-47 and magazines of ammo, flip flops, grenade
launcher, fruit roll ups for the kids, first aid kit including petroleum
jelly dressing for sucking chest wounds, inflatable beach toys, metal
detector to search for IED.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"eterica" <eterica@altermedica.net> wrote in message
news:d31f0fc2-8b04-4cfe-9812-bcd82e4334ef@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shop Frugally at CheapAndFrugal.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2254ec14964230de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 12:03 pm
From: wahoo32

Search thousands of stores and brands at CheapAndFrugal.com. "We're
Cheap and Frugal and Proud Of It!" Easy to use, fast results. No
annoying advertising banners.

http://www.CheapAndFrugal.com

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Friday, February 8, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest