Frugal Living: Jul 23, 2008

Wednesday, July 23, 2008

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Weight Loss and Nutrition Advice
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bd1ebc7ec86506e7?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 11:20 am
From: trimitdown

There's nothing to join here. It's just plain good advice.

http://trim-it-down.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dieting on a budget
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7cbeb26b885dc908?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 12:41 pm
From: Al

Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
up spending more when I'm dieting. I just read this article:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/4096-need-diet-programs/

It talks about how diets can fit every budget. But what are your tips
for losing weight on a tight budget?

Thanks!

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:02 pm
From: Nicodemus

Al <aebaxter@gmail.com> wrote in news:c1d0c70f-08e7-4c77-9d86-cbfc70a54789
@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
> up spending more when I'm dieting. I just read this article:
>
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/4096-need-diet-programs/
>
> It talks about how diets can fit every budget. But what are your tips
> for losing weight on a tight budget?
>
> Thanks!
>

Eat less and wonder about your soul, it is The Universe playing tricks with
your stomach in that mean time the most frugal answer is to protect your
vote, that is if you live in a society that embraces democracy

FreePeople make the best decisions
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:33 pm
From: timeOday

Al wrote:
> Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
> up spending more when I'm dieting.

I agree. Starch is cheap calories but they don't satisfy for long. Fat
is pretty cheap calories, if you don't mind having a heart attack later.
I would like to hear about some cheap sources of lean protein.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:38 pm
From: clams_casino

Al wrote:

>Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
>up spending more when I'm dieting. I just read this article:
>
>http://www.livestrong.com/article/4096-need-diet-programs/
>
>It talks about how diets can fit every budget. But what are your tips
>for losing weight on a tight budget?
>
>Thanks!
>
>

Spend less on starches / sugary snacks & get more exercise.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:45 pm
From: clams_casino

timeOday wrote:

>Al wrote:
>
>
>>Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
>>up spending more when I'm dieting.
>>
>>
>
>I agree. Starch is cheap calories but they don't satisfy for long. Fat
>is pretty cheap calories, if you don't mind having a heart attack later.
> I would like to hear about some cheap sources of lean protein.
>
>

London broil (boneless beef shoulder) was on sale here last week for
$1.99/lb - about as lean a piece of meat as you'll get. Great slow
grilled with a teriyaki marinade, even on the third day in a steak
sandwich with a touch of BBQ sauce.

Excellent if sliced very thin, across the grain.

Split chicken breast is on sale here at $0.99/lb this week (3 lbs or more).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: US Citizen Wants To Become An Illegal Alien (More Benefits)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/75da19aa847fa944?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:05 pm
From: timeOday

tmclone@searchmachine.com wrote:
> On Jul 23, 1:54 pm, hp...@lycos.com wrote:
>> On Jul 23, 4:36 am, s...@nospam.org (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> The Honorable Tom Harkin
>>> 731 Hart Senate Office Building
>>> Phone (202) 224 3254
>>> Washington DC , 20510
>>> Dear Senator Harkin,
>>> As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue
>>> Service, I
>>> am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department
>>> of
>>> Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming
>>> an
>>> illegal alien and they referred me to you.
>>> My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to
>>> illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the
>>> Senate
>>> and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions
>>> is
>>> accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for
>>> five
>>> years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine
>>> and
>>> income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when
>>> I see
>>> one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone
>>> figures it
>>> out.
>>> Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay
>>> taxes
>>> every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of
>>> taxes
>>> in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply
>>> to be
>>> illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and
>>> my
>>> family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.
>>> Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local
>>> emergency
>>> room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying
>>> premiums
>>> for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost
>>> $10,000 a
>>> year.
>>> Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter
>>> would
>>> receive preferential treatment relative to her law school
>>> applications, as
>>> well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the
>>> United
>>> States for my son.
>>> Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the
>>> burden of
>>> renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance
>>> premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college
>>> age
>>> children driving my car.
>>> If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become
>>> illegal
>>> (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would
>>> be
>>> most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
>>> Your Loyal Constituent,
>>> Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service
>>> 1-800-289-1040.
>> And they wonder why folks want to "take a dump" on Washington, DC.
>>
>
> Word. When my wallet was stolen and I had to go to the SS office to
> get a
> new card, I was absolutely dumbstruck by what I saw in the waiting
> room. I
> was the only person speaking English and the only woman there with no
> children. My Spanish is a bit rusty (haven't lived abroad since the
> 1980s),
> but I was able to figure out that most of the people waiting were
> never
> employed, possibly undocumented, but were receiving all sorts of
> bennies.
> It was apparent that most of them spoke no English at all. Note that I
> live
> in rural upstate NY, not a city. Outside of the SS office I have never
> heard
> anyone speaking anything other than English. That includes people
> working at
> local gas station quik e marts, stores, and the Thruway rest stop. Of
> course, that includes only people who work, not those who stay home
> and pump
> out babies as their chosen "profession". Once again, "your tax dollars
> at
> work".
>

In a sense, yes. Americans are not reproducing enough to maintain the
population demographics that our economy has always relied on (though
they are unsustainable in the long run - the population can't grow
forever). Increasingly, we want to have careers instead of kids and
spend all the income on ourselves. But that doesn't work. We need a
next generation to mow our lawns, harvest our crops, flip hamburgers,
and support us in old age. Social security reduced the personal
incentive to have kids as a retirement investment, for better or worse.
So here we are, outsourcing childbearing and childrearing to people who
will do it cheaper, just like picking fruit or laying tile. From an
evolutionary perspective it's surprising.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 20 Healthiest Foods for Under $1
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7ad251f9a434d38?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:48 pm
From: "Stephanie"

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> <http://www.divinecaroline.com/articles/printer_friendly/22145/52070>

Thoughts

- Oatmeal is a high glycemic carb. If you are not into that sort of thing,
steel cut is your savior. It stays in your gut keeping you from hunger
longer too. Crock pot it over night. Freeze the rest. Microwave frozen with
some water and it is as good as new.

- Around here eggs are even cheaper at the bulk store. But watch the store
flier, every now and again they practically GIVE them away. If you are not
into the yolk, make deviled eggs with hummus. Yum! Homemade hummus is
ding-dang cheap also.

Well overall I cannot necessarily agree with this list of "healthy" food.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:26 pm
From: max

In article
<63c737c1-14a8-46d9-8b81-cf9652b7128b@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 23, 9:28 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > James wrote:
> > > On Jul 22, 11:35 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > >> <http://www.divinecaroline.com/articles/printer_friendly/22145/52070>
> >
> > >> --
> > >> Evelyn C. Leeper
> > >> Just because everything is different doesn't mean
> > >> anything has changed. -Irene Peter
> >
> > > Several are no no for gout. Egg consumption has to be limited.
> > > Broccoli intake must be monitored if you're on blood thinner. Peanuts
> > > are banned on airlines.
> >
> > Silly me, I figured that people here would realize that if you have a
> > medical condition that says one of these foods isn't healthy, you would
> > know not to eat it.
> >
> > Seriously, *of course* not all the foods are healthy for everyone. And
> > vegans won't eat eggs, vegetarians won't eat sardines, and Mormons won't
> > drink coffee. But the list is to provide suggestions that intelligent
> > people can decide whether to use or not.
> >
> > Sheesh.
> >
> > --
> > Evelyn C. Leeper
> > Just because everything is different doesn't mean
> > anything has changed. -Irene Peter
>
> You cannot assume intelligent people don't make stupid decisions.
> Eating too much of some of what's on the list can be like eating
> poison.
>
> Here's an article on what can happen when people do what's supposed to
> be "good for you".
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7521137.stm
>
> The dangers of too much detox

it takes a special kind of idiot to poison one's self with water,
however, it's quite rare. Most of them drown in the shower.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Food costs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a87142116351df4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:51 pm
From: "Stephanie"

durie@clear.net.nz wrote:
> Need a shopping list and go without your partner/husband as he will
> always add extra items and then be surprised at the cost at the
> checkout!

Let your husband go to the store! GASP! Not.

Food shopping takes some time for this family. Fliers are my godsend. Meat
and produce are based on the flier, and the freezer stocked accordingly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: -google_groups- What does it cost to feed yourself these days?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e35fa8087ca6eb4?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:53 pm
From: "Stephanie"

James wrote:
> On Jul 19, 11:09 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> James wrote:
>>> With the high gas and grocery prices I find it cheaper for a single
>>> person to have a big lunch at the all you can eat buffet ($8
>>> including tip) and a light meal at home. I don't seem to be able to
>>> make any meal for less than $5. Even a can of soup is around $2.
>>> Fresh veges even at the Farmer's market is out of sight.
>>
>> Can I suggest that if "making a meal" consists of opening cans of
>> stuff you might want to consider actually making stuff. You can make
>> a huge pot of real soup for not a lot of money that will provide
>> multiple meals.
>
> You need to also suggest buying a big fridge to keep the soup from
> turning. One thing people don't realize is that making more than one
> serving is not economical if the uneaten portion spoils. I buy
> spaghett sauce and half of it usually get moldy in the fridge because
> I only use half for one meal. That's probably why they started
> selling one serving size bottles.
>

Freezers are the best. We have numerous muffin tins, not for making boat
loads of muffins, but to freeze things in small portions. Stock, soup,
pureed veggies to sneak into the casserols so the kids dont know it, steel
cut oats, cooked ground beef. You can always take out more than one muffin
cup worth up to as much as you need.

> BTW I'm not looking for suggestions to lower cost. I'm more
> interested in what other people spend in a $ figure per person.

About $100/wk for a family of 4.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:55 pm
From: "Stephanie"

h wrote:
> "James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5993fd35-74a2-4808-8565-fbd57d936311@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> With the high gas and grocery prices I find it cheaper for a single
>> person to have a big lunch at the all you can eat buffet ($8
>> including tip) and a light meal at home. I don't seem to be able to
>> make any meal for less than $5. Even a can of soup is around $2. Fresh
>> veges even at the Farmer's market is out of sight.
>>
> Fresh veggies from the back yard and 1/2 lb of boneless ribeye comes
> to exactly $2.99.

Ribeye for $2.99!?! Oh my goodness. You can't get that here. Did you count
the cost of planting the back yard veggies in there?

> Maybe add a few cents for spices and olive oil, too. A can of tuna with
> some mayo and backyard veg makes for an under
> $1.50 lunch. Breakfast is 2 eggs and a slice of ham for less than
> $1.00. Meals are much cheaper when you make them from scratch.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 1:59 pm
From: "Stephanie"

catalpa wrote:
> "James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5993fd35-74a2-4808-8565-fbd57d936311@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> With the high gas and grocery prices I find it cheaper for a single
>> person to have a big lunch at the all you can eat buffet ($8
>> including tip) and a light meal at home. I don't seem to be able to
>> make any meal for less than $5. Even a can of soup is around $2. Fresh
>> veges even at the Farmer's market is out of sight.
>>
>
> You can't make a meal for less than $5 ???
>
> Perdue chicken leg quarters were on sale for $0.59 a lb. I bought 5
> lbs, cooked 3 lbs and froze 2 lbs. The 3 lbs of chicken lasts for 3
> dinners. Add a vegetable, pasta or potatoes and dessert and each meal
> is less than $1.50.

And when boneless breast in on sale for $1.87/lb, holy cow do we live in
heaven! I cannot even eat one whole one, so that goes some distance.

Pasta is dirt cheap too.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:59 pm
From: "h"

"Stephanie" <haaa@noway.net> wrote in message
news:LI2dnZrDEY1qBBrVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>h wrote:
>> "James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:5993fd35-74a2-4808-8565-fbd57d936311@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> With the high gas and grocery prices I find it cheaper for a single
>>> person to have a big lunch at the all you can eat buffet ($8
>>> including tip) and a light meal at home. I don't seem to be able to
>>> make any meal for less than $5. Even a can of soup is around $2. Fresh
>>> veges even at the Farmer's market is out of sight.
>>>
>> Fresh veggies from the back yard and 1/2 lb of boneless ribeye comes
>> to exactly $2.99.
>
>
> Ribeye for $2.99!?! Oh my goodness. You can't get that here. Did you count
> the cost of planting the back yard veggies in there?
>

It's $5.98 lb for a 15-18 pound piece. We cut that into 1½ inch thick
steaks, or about one lb per "slice". Once "slice" feeds the two of us for a
meal and I usually have enough of mine left over for a bleu cheese chop
salad the next day. What do you pay? Since we grow all the veggies from
seeds we spend about $10 a year for veggies, so it's less than 1 cent a
meal.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:02 pm
From: "h"

"Stephanie" <haaa@noway.net> wrote in message
news:Gp6dnUgM9LtVBxrVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com...
> catalpa wrote:
>> "James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:5993fd35-74a2-4808-8565-fbd57d936311@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> With the high gas and grocery prices I find it cheaper for a single
>>> person to have a big lunch at the all you can eat buffet ($8
>>> including tip) and a light meal at home. I don't seem to be able to
>>> make any meal for less than $5. Even a can of soup is around $2. Fresh
>>> veges even at the Farmer's market is out of sight.
>>>
>>
>> You can't make a meal for less than $5 ???
>>
>> Perdue chicken leg quarters were on sale for $0.59 a lb. I bought 5
>> lbs, cooked 3 lbs and froze 2 lbs. The 3 lbs of chicken lasts for 3
>> dinners. Add a vegetable, pasta or potatoes and dessert and each meal
>> is less than $1.50.
>
>
> And when boneless breast in on sale for $1.87/lb, holy cow do we live in
> heaven! I cannot even eat one whole one, so that goes some distance.
>

Our local market usually runs boneless breasts for $1.89 lb. on Wednesdays,
but last week they had them at $1.29. I spent $60 and it took quite a while
to pack it all up into the freezer!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal ways
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8e3584c16c404f4e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:04 pm
From: "Stephanie"

Gina wrote:
> Curious how others make ends meet?
>
> I reuse all I can. Butter tubs, tv dinner containers, use less
> tooth paste, cheap TP, use cloth napkins rather than buy paper
> napkins, don't use paper towels (WAY TOO expensive). Use rags.
>
>
> I recycle for the environment.

- No fancy cleaning stuff. A can of comet and a spray bottle of vinegar and
water.

- Shop meat and produce from the stores' fliers. Buy LOTS of the loss
leaders and freeze them.

- I actually maintain a price book sicne I cannot remember anything about
the price of stuff.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: One last cleaning before home remodel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18f8bfd31d424652?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:03 pm
From: steverossiter@sbcglobal.net

Hi,

We will be remodeling our home soon and eventually replacing the
berber rug that is in place now. We actually wanted to do the remodel
sooner and as a result have been pretty neglectful of the rug thinking
it would be replaced sooner. It is in pretty rough shape (just normal
traffic dirt and grime, no oil-based stains) and certain areas might
need a scrubber machine.

I thought we could rent a scrubber at Lowes and then schedule a
professional to do the hot water extraction just afterwards.

If this sounds workable can anyone recommend a moderately priced
general purpose spot remover and shampoo for a rug destined for the
trash in about four months.

I was going to call on Stanley Steamer for the steam cleaning but
some of the comments make me worry that perhaps the care won't be
taken to get as much water back out of the rug as possible which could
be a problem with berber.

It is a small house (3 bed, hallway, and family room) with about 1000
sq ft of rug in So. Cal.

Thanks for the advice,

Steve

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:20 pm
From: "MRS. CLEAN"

On Jul 23, 2:03 pm, steverossi...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We will be remodeling our home soon and eventually replacing the
> berber rug that is in place now. We actually wanted to do the remodel
> sooner and as a result have been pretty neglectful of the rug thinking
> it would be replaced sooner. It is in pretty rough shape (just normal
> traffic dirt and grime, no oil-based stains) and certain areas might
> need a scrubber machine.
>
> I thought we could rent a scrubber at Lowes and then schedule a
> professional to do the hot water extraction just afterwards.
>
> If this sounds workable can anyone recommend a moderately priced
> general purpose spot remover and shampoo for a rug destined for the
> trash in about four months.
>
> I was going to call on Stanley Steamer for the steam cleaning but
> some of the comments make me worry that perhaps the care won't be
> taken to get as much water back out of the rug as possible which could
> be a problem with berber.
>
> It is a small house (3 bed, hallway, and family room) with about 1000
> sq ft of rug in So. Cal.
>
> Thanks for the advice,
>
> Steve

Dry Chem only. But, I'd forget it since it's out of there anyway.
Save your money and go out for a lovely dinner.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:51 pm
From: "h"

<steverossiter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:e247b57d-b8a7-4d30-b6fa-47fcafea23b5@u36g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> We will be remodeling our home soon and eventually replacing the
> berber rug that is in place now. We actually wanted to do the remodel
> sooner and as a result have been pretty neglectful of the rug thinking
> it would be replaced sooner. It is in pretty rough shape (just normal
> traffic dirt and grime, no oil-based stains) and certain areas might
> need a scrubber machine.
>
> I thought we could rent a scrubber at Lowes and then schedule a
> professional to do the hot water extraction just afterwards.
>
> If this sounds workable can anyone recommend a moderately priced
> general purpose spot remover and shampoo for a rug destined for the
> trash in about four months.
>
> I was going to call on Stanley Steamer for the steam cleaning but
> some of the comments make me worry that perhaps the care won't be
> taken to get as much water back out of the rug as possible which could
> be a problem with berber.
>
> It is a small house (3 bed, hallway, and family room) with about 1000
> sq ft of rug in So. Cal.
>
> Thanks for the advice,
>
> Steve

???Why would you go through the hassle and expense to clean something you'll
be tossing in 4 months? SOOO not worth it.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:46 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 23, 2:51 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> <steverossi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:e247b57d-b8a7-4d30-b6fa-47fcafea23b5@u36g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > We will be remodeling our home soon and eventually replacing the
> > berber rug that is in place now. We actually wanted to do the remodel
> > sooner and as a result have been pretty neglectful of the rug thinking
> > it would be replaced sooner. It is in pretty rough shape (just normal
> > traffic dirt and grime, no oil-based stains) and certain areas might
> > need a scrubber machine.
>
> > I thought we could rent a scrubber at Lowes and then schedule a
> > professional to do the hot water extraction just afterwards.
>
> > If this sounds workable can anyone recommend a moderately priced
> > general purpose spot remover and shampoo for a rug destined for the
> > trash in about four months.
>
> > I was going to call on Stanley Steamer for the steam cleaning but
> > some of the comments make me worry that perhaps the care won't be
> > taken to get as much water back out of the rug as possible which could
> > be a problem with berber.
>
> > It is a small house (3 bed, hallway, and family room) with about 1000
> > sq ft of rug in So. Cal.
>
> > Thanks for the advice,
>
> > Steve
>
> ???Why would you go through the hassle and expense to clean something you'll
> be tossing in 4 months? SOOO not worth it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That was my thinking as well. Just vacuum well and maybe some spot
cleaning (or heck, throw a small area rug on top to cover it).
Reminds me, I should set up some appointments to replace the 30 y/o
original carpets in my house, they're looking a bit worn.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cooling Cost
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2332fd61c54eaee9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:22 pm
From: Dan Birchall

thismailautodeleted@comcast.net (Vic Smith) wrote:
> Some people never open a window and run their A/C 24/7.
> Wasteful, except they save the physical effort of effort of checking
> the temp, and opening/closing windows.

I take the opposite approach... I (almost) never close my windows,
and have no A/C. :)

--
Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: eBay Partnet Network Website
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/79708b3ff0c2b5ef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:23 pm
From: Dan Birchall

inmystore@gmail.com (inmystore@gmail.com) wrote:
> I have created a new website which gets the currect auctions and items
> listed on eBay.

Have you heard the expression "filling a much-needed hole?"

--
Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/90fa7947e691813a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:26 pm
From: Dan Birchall

bashley101+mot@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
> Dan Birchall wrote:
> > bashley101+usenet@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
> >> I have no idea at all what he's trying to sell
> >>
> >> cheng wrote:
> >> > Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
> >
> > Obviously he's selling integrals. Didn't you take calculus? :)
>
> <sigh> I was an English major. Now if he'd been pushing conjugations...
>
We'll have no conjugating in here - this is a family newsgroup. :)

--
Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Extreme grocery shopping saves cash as food prices rise
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00ace7baec84eb05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 2:43 pm
From: clams_casino

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

> <http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>
>
> Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And yes,
> the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see this a lot
> when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees would drive in once
> a month from long distances and buy all their non-perishables at much
> cheaper prices than off-vase.
>

He claims to save $60-70 (including $15? in gas costs) by driving 90
miles, but ignores the wear and tear costs on his car. It's easy to
make a profit or show savings when one ignores his costs.

At least half that savings is fictitious.

Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily
ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of gas as their cost of driving.

Granted, he appears to have saved $30-35, but considering his ignorance
of costs, I question if the pricing difference is as great as claimed.
I did a Stop & Shop cost comparison about two years ago and found
Walmart did have a 30% advantage on cost for a $100 basket of goods I
typically purchase, but certainly not the 50% claimed in the article
($150 in goods with about $75 - 80 in savings). Then again, that could
depend significantly on his basket of goods. On the other hand, they
don't mention if there is a regular Walmart within a few mile, where
much of his savings would also likely be realized without driving 90
miles (regular Walmarts do carry much of the staple products that make
up a bulk of typical shopping lists)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Depreciation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d4818ede437a0f5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:35 pm
From: clams_casino

Bob F wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>
>And what are you paying for insurance and licensing for each of those vehicles?
>
>
>
>
Please.

Don't confuse the savings issue by bringing up costs.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

26 new messages in 16 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap ED hardy hoodies women
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/868187708979ef62?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 11:05 pm
From: xiaomu

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TOPIC: cheap ggg
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/77f142455806c90f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 12:07 am
From: xiaomu

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TOPIC: cheap ggg shirt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/113de19cfc6bbc5f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 12:08 am
From: xiaomu

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best online deals and coupons sites aggregator, Siftin.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9010cbbd0948fcc5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 12:15 am
From: kishore

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Healthy for whom? Re: The 20 Healthiest Foods for Under $1
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7ad251f9a434d38?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:40 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

<yag> wrote:

>Those of us without gout, don't give ashit.

Don't got gout, don't give nout.

Nick

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 6:28 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

James wrote:
> On Jul 22, 11:35 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> <http://www.divinecaroline.com/articles/printer_friendly/22145/52070>
>>
>> --
>> Evelyn C. Leeper
>> Just because everything is different doesn't mean
>> anything has changed. -Irene Peter
>
> Several are no no for gout. Egg consumption has to be limited.
> Broccoli intake must be monitored if you're on blood thinner. Peanuts
> are banned on airlines.

Silly me, I figured that people here would realize that if you have a
medical condition that says one of these foods isn't healthy, you would
know not to eat it.

Seriously, *of course* not all the foods are healthy for everyone. And
vegans won't eat eggs, vegetarians won't eat sardines, and Mormons won't
drink coffee. But the list is to provide suggestions that intelligent
people can decide whether to use or not.

Sheesh.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Just because everything is different doesn't mean
anything has changed. -Irene Peter

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 10:01 am
From: James

On Jul 23, 9:28 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> James wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 11:35 am, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> <http://www.divinecaroline.com/articles/printer_friendly/22145/52070>
>
> >> --
> >> Evelyn C. Leeper
> >> Just because everything is different doesn't mean
> >> anything has changed. -Irene Peter
>
> > Several are no no for gout. Egg consumption has to be limited.
> > Broccoli intake must be monitored if you're on blood thinner. Peanuts
> > are banned on airlines.
>
> Silly me, I figured that people here would realize that if you have a
> medical condition that says one of these foods isn't healthy, you would
> know not to eat it.
>
> Seriously, *of course* not all the foods are healthy for everyone. And
> vegans won't eat eggs, vegetarians won't eat sardines, and Mormons won't
> drink coffee. But the list is to provide suggestions that intelligent
> people can decide whether to use or not.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Just because everything is different doesn't mean
> anything has changed. -Irene Peter

You cannot assume intelligent people don't make stupid decisions.
Eating too much of some of what's on the list can be like eating
poison.

Here's an article on what can happen when people do what's supposed to
be "good for you".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7521137.stm

The dangers of too much detox

==============================================================================
TOPIC: air conditioning in two-story house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66c55f1e21d65566?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 4:00 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <dWxhk.4414$KI7.1881@newsfe08.iad>, "MarieD" <abc@123.com>
wrote:

> We have a two-story house, and one a/c unit. The upstairs rooms are terribly
> hot in the summertime. It doesn't even feel like cold air is coming out of
> the vents if the temperatures go above 85F outside. Fans do NOT help. We
> were told to check in the attic to see if the cold air is leaking out
> somewhere up there. When the temps are getting up to 100F, it's just about
> unbearable upstairs. Does anyone have any ideas? Saturday my husband is
> going to go into the attic to check for leaks.
>
> I have tried keeping the doors closed upstairs, and also keeping them all
> open. Neither makes a difference. And I do block the windows from letting
> the sun through. btw the windows are new, double-paned, supposed to be good
> at keeping the air from leaking in/out.

Its impossible to make specific recommendations about this problem
without the slightest idea of where in the world you live or the
construction of your home. You and your husband should probably talk
with neighbors to see what they recommend, as presumably they are in the
same situation as you. You also might be better off consulting with a
specialist in that area who knows how to check for these things. Ask
your neighbors for a recommendation.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:29 am
From: James

On Jul 22, 11:52 pm, "MarieD" <a...@123.com> wrote:
> We have a two-story house, and one a/c unit. The upstairs rooms are terribly
> hot in the summertime. It doesn't even feel like cold air is coming out of
> the vents if the temperatures go above 85F outside. Fans do NOT help. We
> were told to check in the attic to see if the cold air is leaking out
> somewhere up there. When the temps are getting up to 100F, it's just about
> unbearable upstairs. Does anyone have any ideas? Saturday my husband is
> going to go into the attic to check for leaks.
>
> I have tried keeping the doors closed upstairs, and also keeping them all
> open. Neither makes a difference. And I do block the windows from letting
> the sun through. btw the windows are new, double-paned, supposed to be good
> at keeping the air from leaking in/out.
>
> --
> Marie
> ~The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of
> tolerance comes when we are in the majority.~
> Ralph W. Sockman

Attic fan to lower temperature of attic and more attic insulation to
keep the heat from coming into the house. Close downstair vents so
all cool air goes through upstair vents. I doubt cold air is leaking
out up there since cold air drifts lower and hot air raises.
Downstairs are usually cooler than upstairs. You might have to get
some kind of vent fans for the upstair fans to help draw the cool air
upstairs if closing the downstair vents don't work.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:01 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:52:43 -0400, "MarieD" <abc@123.com> wrote:

In general, a single AC won't properly cool the second story of a two
story house. Cold air is denser, and sinks. Hot air is less dense,
so any hot air from below rises to replace it. This is the exact
opposite of the positive effects of heating a first floor. When
heating, the second story can be more comfortable and secure than the
first one, hence the Brit nobles tending to live on the second floor,
or the French living on the second floor but calling it the first
floor, the use of basements, etc.. You'll likely need a second AC
just for the upper floors if the situation is as bad as you describe.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Convert Your Car To Burn Water + Gasoline = Double Your Mileage!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1afecc1533b1bc25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:04 am
From: puhuiren

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Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:06 am
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 6:01 am
From: clams_casino

puhuiren wrote:

>Hi..
>
> Run Your Car
>Partially On Water
>

Are all you Malaysians that gullible?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Want to terminate spammers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fe393f021dd67e56?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 6:06 am
From: clams_casino

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oxygen Bars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/398f387eaa18b611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 6:51 am
From: Dancing Queen

we have been having lots of forest fires nearby and I went to get my
oxygen tank
refilled , but they won't w/o a prescription.
Seems like you should be able to buy O2. Medical grade. There is not
such restriction on welding O.
but, down the street you can pony up to a Oxygen Bar and get scented air.
How pure , I dunno.
Why is O2 regulated?
--
If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I found natural cures for gout un-frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e8bd7f7a0ebe36c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 8:37 am
From: James

On Jul 22, 2:41 pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> On 2008-07-22, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > (Other than it's a coin made of certain
> > metals that you carry in your pocket. :-)
>
> It's just redundant. I already have my Kinoki foot pads, Q-Ray bracelet,
> and magnetic jockstrap. Still working on the tinfoil hat. ;)
>
> nb

Oh well, it works as well as masterbation. Masterbating don't cost
$20 unless you need the aid of viagra and online porn.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 9:35 am
From: Goomba

James wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2:41 pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>> On 2008-07-22, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> (Other than it's a coin made of certain
>>> metals that you carry in your pocket. :-)
>> It's just redundant. I already have my Kinoki foot pads, Q-Ray bracelet,
>> and magnetic jockstrap. Still working on the tinfoil hat. ;)
>>
>> nb
>
> Oh well, it works as well as masterbation. Masterbating don't cost
> $20 unless you need the aid of viagra and online porn.

FYI- mastUrbation is the correct spelling. Just in case you're doing it
wrong as well as spelling it incorrectly?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 10:08 am
From: James

On Jul 23, 12:35 pm, Goomba <Goomb...@comcast.net> wrote:
> James wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 2:41 pm, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> >> On 2008-07-22, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >>> (Other than it's a coin made of certain
> >>> metals that you carry in your pocket. :-)
> >> It's just redundant. I already have my Kinoki foot pads, Q-Ray bracelet,
> >> and magnetic jockstrap. Still working on the tinfoil hat. ;)
>
> >> nb
>
> > Oh well, it works as well as masterbation. Masterbating don't cost
> > $20 unless you need the aid of viagra and online porn.
>
> FYI- mastUrbation is the correct spelling. Just in case you're doing it
> wrong as well as spelling it incorrectly?

Well, I guess teacher should have been teaching me spelling instead of
sex.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: look to the bible for answers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c1e11836f90c57d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 8:50 am
From: A Veteran

Dear President Bush,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have
learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and
support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you
said
"in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to
share
that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to
defend
the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that
Leviticus
18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements
of
God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill
him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have
a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27.
How
should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of
two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to
curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with
people
who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable
expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
--
If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 9:45 am
From: Jeff

James wrote:
> Overnight lows are usually around 70 even after 90+ highs where I
> live.
>
> I had the window fan on for 14 hours consumed 70Kw. Had the AC on 1
> hour for 40 to 50Kw. One hour of AC didn't lower the temperature but
> took moisture out of the air.

Well, that's not good.

It was pretty humid overnight and I was
> able to lower the house from 82 to 76 after 14 hours.
>
> The night before I had the AC on instead and that took 240Kw.
>
> Based on this one observation it seems cheaper to use window fan at
> night to cool my house.

As others have pointed out, your numbers are crazy.

Now, a fan pulling in cooler air at night is a good thing. But it is
rarely sufficient. Only you know how fast it takes your house to heat up.

I'd like to point out that fans are big energy users and leaving one
on does use energy. One of the big features of Energy Star ACs is that
they have a mode to cycle the fan off when the compressor is not
running. That saves a lot of energy, from not having the fan run
continuously.

Also, because it is cooler at night, your window AC will take less
energy to cool. It should cycle off much more.

Ideally, you'll want a mix of both ventilation and AC. But, if I had
to choose only one it would be AC.

In a poorly insulated home, the best way to save money is insulation.
You may also wish to do something with your windows if you have a lot of
solar gain. And do something with your attic, if your attic temps are high.

I've dramatically cut my cooling cost by adding insulation (all the
way around) and by switching to Energy Star ACs with a good EER. I'm
also much more comfortable.

It sounds like you have central air. The new outdoor units have much
higher SEERs than the old. I believe 16 is now common and 19s are out
there. You may wish to consider an upgrade there but the payback would
be multiple years.

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 9:52 am
From: Jeff

Jeff wrote:
> James wrote:
>> Overnight lows are usually around 70 even after 90+ highs where I
>> live.
>>
>> I had the window fan on for 14 hours consumed 70Kw. Had the AC on 1
>> hour for 40 to 50Kw. One hour of AC didn't lower the temperature but
>> took moisture out of the air.
>
> Well, that's not good.
>
> It was pretty humid overnight and I was
>> able to lower the house from 82 to 76 after 14 hours.
>>
>> The night before I had the AC on instead and that took 240Kw.
>>
>> Based on this one observation it seems cheaper to use window fan at
>> night to cool my house.
>
> As others have pointed out, your numbers are crazy.
>
> Now, a fan pulling in cooler air at night is a good thing. But it is
> rarely sufficient. Only you know how fast it takes your house to heat up.
>
> I'd like to point out that fans are big energy users and leaving one on
> does use energy. One of the big features of Energy Star ACs is that they
> have a mode to cycle the fan off when the compressor is not running.
> That saves a lot of energy, from not having the fan run continuously.
>
> Also, because it is cooler at night, your window AC will take less
> energy to cool. It should cycle off much more.
>
> Ideally, you'll want a mix of both ventilation and AC. But, if I had
> to choose only one it would be AC.
>
> In a poorly insulated home, the best way to save money is insulation.
> You may also wish to do something with your windows if you have a lot of
> solar gain. And do something with your attic, if your attic temps are high.
>
> I've dramatically cut my cooling cost by adding insulation (all the
> way around) and by switching to Energy Star ACs with a good EER. I'm
> also much more comfortable.
>
> It sounds like you have central air. The new outdoor units have much
> higher SEERs than the old. I believe 16 is now common and 19s are out
> there. You may wish to consider an upgrade there but the payback would
> be multiple years.

There's some caveats on high SEER, particularly in very hot climates.
More here:

http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditioning-total-heat-enthalpy-latent-heat.html

Jeff
>
> Jeff
>

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 9:58 am
From: "Bob F"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:g62n68$qq4$1@aioe.org...
> Recently, I made a post regarding whether our house payment could be
> considered a form of savings. During the discussion, someone brought up
> making a car payment, and asked if I would consider that savings.
>
> A number of folks chipped in with their various views. Many of them
> considered depreciation.
>
> Well, we have a 1969 Ford Econoline van that I got for $500. We also have a
> Dodge Caravan (van) that we also paid $500 for. Then we have a 1996 Buick
> Century that we've had since 2002, when it was given to us as a wedding
> present.
>
> So we have a grand total of $1,000 in 3 vehicles. From my point of view,
> there really isn't a whole lot of depreciation to be had. I do most of the
> maintenance myself. If we had do, I think we could probably sell these 3
> vehicles for $3,500 or so. The true value is that each is dependable, well
> cared for, and is insurance against ever having to make a car payment, or have
> to take out a car loan.
>
> Plus, each serves a specific purpose. The older van we bought to go camping.
> We don't have to set up and take down a tent, and it works out great in colder
> or wet weather. The newer van is good for medium trips where we want a bit
> more room. The Buick is best for city driving and long distance driving when
> it is just 1 or 2 people, and the best mileage is desired.
>
> For some folks, automobile depreciation isn't much of a financial issue. We
> only have 2.5% of our annual income invested in our 3 autos. Of course, we
> will probably put in more money into fixing some things up than might be true
> with newer vehicles. Plus, it will take more time for maintenance on my part.
> However, that is essentially a hobby that I enjoy, and something I can do with
> my son to teach him about tools & such, so I don't consider that a negatived
> aspect at all.
>

And what are you paying for insurance and licensing for each of those vehicles?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 10:17 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

<http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>

Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And yes,
the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see this a lot
when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees would drive in once a
month from long distances and buy all their non-perishables at much
cheaper prices than off-vase.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Just because everything is different doesn't mean
anything has changed. -Irene Peter

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 10:54 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Jul 23, 4:36 am, s...@nospam.org (Way Back Jack) wrote:
> The Honorable Tom Harkin
> 731 Hart Senate Office Building
> Phone (202) 224 3254
> Washington DC , 20510
>
> Dear Senator Harkin,
>
> As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue
> Service, I
> am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department
> of
> Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming
> an
> illegal alien and they referred me to you.
>
> My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to
>
> illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the
> Senate
> and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions
> is
> accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for
> five
> years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine
> and
> income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when
> I see
> one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone
> figures it
> out.
>
> Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay
> taxes
> every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of
> taxes
> in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply
> to be
> illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and
> my
> family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.
>
> Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local
> emergency
> room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying
> premiums
> for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost
> $10,000 a
> year.
>
> Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter
> would
> receive preferential treatment relative to her law school
> applications, as
> well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the
> United
> States for my son.
>
> Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the
> burden of
> renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance
>
> premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college
> age
> children driving my car.
>
> If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become
> illegal
> (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would
> be
> most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
>
> Your Loyal Constituent,
>
> Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service
> 1-800-289-1040.

And they wonder why folks want to "take a dump" on Washington, DC.

mitch

http://www.newnation.com/ New Nation News

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 11:18 am
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com

On Jul 23, 1:54 pm, hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> On Jul 23, 4:36 am, s...@nospam.org (Way Back Jack) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Honorable Tom Harkin
> > 731 Hart Senate Office Building
> > Phone (202) 224 3254
> > Washington DC , 20510
>
> > Dear Senator Harkin,
>
> > As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue
> > Service, I
> > am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department
> > of
> > Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming
> > an
> > illegal alien and they referred me to you.
>
> > My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to
>
> > illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the
> > Senate
> > and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions
> > is
> > accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for
> > five
> > years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine
> > and
> > income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when
> > I see
> > one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone
> > figures it
> > out.
>
> > Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay
> > taxes
> > every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of
> > taxes
> > in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply
> > to be
> > illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and
> > my
> > family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.
>
> > Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local
> > emergency
> > room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying
> > premiums
> > for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost
> > $10,000 a
> > year.
>
> > Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter
> > would
> > receive preferential treatment relative to her law school
> > applications, as
> > well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the
> > United
> > States for my son.
>
> > Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the
> > burden of
> > renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance
>
> > premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college
> > age
> > children driving my car.
>
> > If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become
> > illegal
> > (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would
> > be
> > most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
>
> > Your Loyal Constituent,
>
> > Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service
> > 1-800-289-1040.
>
> And they wonder why folks want to "take a dump" on Washington, DC.
>

Word. When my wallet was stolen and I had to go to the SS office to
get a
new card, I was absolutely dumbstruck by what I saw in the waiting
room. I
was the only person speaking English and the only woman there with no
children. My Spanish is a bit rusty (haven't lived abroad since the
1980s),
but I was able to figure out that most of the people waiting were
never
employed, possibly undocumented, but were receiving all sorts of
bennies.
It was apparent that most of them spoke no English at all. Note that I
live
in rural upstate NY, not a city. Outside of the SS office I have never
heard
anyone speaking anything other than English. That includes people
working at
local gas station quik e marts, stores, and the Thruway rest stop. Of
course, that includes only people who work, not those who stay home
and pump
out babies as their chosen "profession". Once again, "your tax dollars
at
work".

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 11:20 am
From: trimitdown

There's nothing to join here. It's just plain good advice.

http://trim-it-down.com

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19 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 2:28 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Jul 22, 5:02 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> yag wrote:
> >On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:12:34 -0700 (PDT), James <j0069b...@hotmail.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >>Several are no no for gout. Egg consumption has to be limited.
> >>Broccoli intake must be monitored if you're on blood thinner. Peanuts
> >>are banned on airlines.
>
> >Those of us without gout, don't give ashit.
>
> So what do you do for your constipation?

Maybe he proofreads his posts on his laptop, but the glasses and teeth
are on the counter as he waits.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 4:59 pm
From: val189

About wild rice

"It won't cost you much more than white rice...."

I'd like to know where the author shops.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which inexpensive top loader washer to buy?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/144a47e00593d20c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 3:02 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 22, 1:08 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
>
> <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I'm finally glad I have a front loader now that the water meters have
> >been installed on my street. Before this I wasn't seeing all that
> >much of a difference because I rarely used hot water to wash, so it
> >didn't help on the electric bill. But the water bill should stay
> >relatively low.
>
> If you use clothes dryer (ours is electric), you may see utility bills
> drop with a front-loader because it spins more water out of the
> clothes = shorter drying time.
>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
> dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

That's what they say, but one thing I noticed was that because you can
fit more clothes in the wash, it took longer to dry. I suppose if I
washed the same average sized load I used to that might be true. Even
better would be to semi-dry the clothes (I can briefly hang mine in
the very warm garage) before using the dryer on them to finish drying
and clear wrinkles.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 3:46 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <kfrb84tl2o7v6j3lt20mdb2v3mcapj7kja@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Cost is an issue but need a new washer.
>
> What brand/model cheapish top loader would you guys
> advise that is a decent performer and a good "value"?

Check Consumer Reports.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 3:51 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

> In most of Europe they use front loaders

Pig ignorant lie.

> and top loaders are considered archaic and deficient.

Another pig ignorant lie.

And who cares what those in europe use anyway ?

>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:28:13 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living
> Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply <samhill@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Goomba wrote:
>>>
>>> pssssst... a top loading washer *is* a "REGULAR" washing machine.
>>> Perhaps you're thinking of a front loader? Which are also "REGULAR"
>>> washers in much of the world, and becoming so in the US also. Love
>>> the way they use less water and energy.
>>
>> Hello, BDRU! (brain dead 'R' us) I am having an insane morning at
>> work.
>>
>> My mom had front-loaders with slanted fronts when I was little. I
>> remember watching the clothes and the soapsuds going around all the
>> time. But they are MUCH more expensive than the standard washing
>> machine that has been sold in the US for ages. So "cheapish" is
>> something I would really worry about, since many of the newer models
>> still had bugs that hadn't been worked out.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 4:42 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:02:46 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
<seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jul 22, 1:08 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
>>
>> <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >I'm finally glad I have a front loader now that the water meters have
>> >been installed on my street. Before this I wasn't seeing all that
>> >much of a difference because I rarely used hot water to wash, so it
>> >didn't help on the electric bill. But the water bill should stay
>> >relatively low.
>>
>> If you use clothes dryer (ours is electric), you may see utility bills
>> drop with a front-loader because it spins more water out of the
>> clothes = shorter drying time.
>>
>> Dennis (evil)
>> --
>> I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
>> dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
>
>That's what they say, but one thing I noticed was that because you can
>fit more clothes in the wash, it took longer to dry. I suppose if I
>washed the same average sized load I used to that might be true. Even
>better would be to semi-dry the clothes (I can briefly hang mine in
>the very warm garage) before using the dryer on them to finish drying
>and clear wrinkles.

Well, even if it takes longer to dry "a load", if you are drying more
clothes it still may be saving you money on the utility bills if the
energy use per item/lb/unit is lower. Or maybe not, particularly if
you are using timed drying and continue running the dryer longer than
it needs.

We got a new dryer with a moisture sensor at the same time we got the
front-load washer, so it is hard to say which caused the drop in the
electric bill. Probably a combination of both.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 8:35 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <kfrb84tl2o7v6j3lt20mdb2v3mcapj7kja@4ax.com>,
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Cost is an issue but need a new washer.

>What brand/model cheapish top loader would you guys
>advise that is a decent performer and a good "value"?

I had to replace a washer a few years ago; I bought the
second lowest end model Whirlpool that Lowes had. (The
lowest end did not have a bleach dispenser.)

Looks like you have to go to third from lowest to get
the bleach dispenser, now:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=161966-46-WTW5540ST&lpage=none

I've had good luck with mine so far.

For things like towels, I re-run the spin cycle to get a
bit more water out.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 5:10 pm
From: Silfax

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:42:49 -0400, nicksanspam regurgitated the following

> James <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote:
>
>>All cars take a huge hit once they are driven off the lot...
>
> I just stopped at a Smart Car dealer and noticed the $13-15K new car
> stickers and asked if they had any used Smart Cars for sale. The
> salesperson pointed to one on the lot and said it just sold for $21K,
> after 2 months of use. ("The owner had too many cars.") It was no fancier
> than the new cars. I asked why the price was higher, and she said Smart
> Cars APpreciate as they leave the lot.

The dealer was yanking your chain...

If they were worth more after 2 months use, you could go into business
buying a new one then selling it 2 months later. Then buy anther new one,
use it for 2 months and resell it again. Looking at the numbers posted
above (buy for 15k, sell for 21k) you would be looking at an income of 6k
every 2 months -- 12k a year for doing pretty much nothing.

and what moron would pay an additional 6k for a slightly used car when a
an identical new model is sitting right next to it for 6000 less?

--
Silfax

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 5:28 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 22, 5:10 pm, Silfax <r...@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:42:49 -0400, nicksanspam regurgitated the following
>
> > James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >>All cars take a huge hit once they are driven off the lot...
>
> > I just stopped at a Smart Car dealer and noticed the $13-15K new car
> > stickers and asked if they had any used Smart Cars for sale. The
> > salesperson pointed to one on the lot and said it just sold for $21K,
> > after 2 months of use. ("The owner had too many cars.") It was no fancier
> > than the new cars. I asked why the price was higher, and she said Smart
> > Cars APpreciate as they leave the lot.
>
> The dealer was yanking your chain...
>
> If they were worth more after 2 months use, you could go into business
> buying a new one then selling it 2 months later. Then buy anther new one,
> use it for 2 months and resell it again. Looking at the numbers posted
> above (buy for 15k, sell for 21k) you would be looking at an income of 6k
> every 2 months -- 12k a year for doing pretty much nothing.
>
> and what moron would pay an additional 6k for a slightly used car when a
> an identical new model is sitting right next to it for 6000 less?
>
> --
> Silfax

Wouldn't that qualify as "instant gratification" though? If they have
a used one to drive off the lot vs having to wait 3-6 months on a
waiting list, some (not saying it really makes sense) would opt for
the premium to have it now.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 6:02 pm
From: George

Silfax wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:42:49 -0400, nicksanspam regurgitated the following
>
>> James <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All cars take a huge hit once they are driven off the lot...
>> I just stopped at a Smart Car dealer and noticed the $13-15K new car
>> stickers and asked if they had any used Smart Cars for sale. The
>> salesperson pointed to one on the lot and said it just sold for $21K,
>> after 2 months of use. ("The owner had too many cars.") It was no fancier
>> than the new cars. I asked why the price was higher, and she said Smart
>> Cars APpreciate as they leave the lot.
>
>
> The dealer was yanking your chain...
>
> If they were worth more after 2 months use, you could go into business
> buying a new one then selling it 2 months later. Then buy anther new one,
> use it for 2 months and resell it again. Looking at the numbers posted
> above (buy for 15k, sell for 21k) you would be looking at an income of 6k
> every 2 months -- 12k a year for doing pretty much nothing.
>
> and what moron would pay an additional 6k for a slightly used car when a
> an identical new model is sitting right next to it for 6000 less?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Silfax
>
>
They wouldn't be a moron. They would simply be someone who wanted the
car and because they can't do what you described. If you placed your
order today it would take 14 months to get your new Smartcar. You simply
can't walk in and buy one. There is *no* dealer stock. All cars are
already sold.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 6:10 pm
From: George

timeOday wrote:
> I am one of those who said equity in a vehicle is akin to savings - but
> I never said it was a *good* form of savings :)
>
> NPR recently ran a story about collapsing SUV values. A guy who paid
> $72,000(!) for a Cadillac Escalade last year was offered $32,000 for it
> at carmax. I think the guy would be a fool to sell at that price, since
> I think gas prices are in a speculation bubble right now. Problem is,
> the payment is so high he cannot keep up. Check and mate. Repossession
> must be tempting for him because the bank would get royally screwed.
>
> Good practical cars (unfortunately for us bargain hunters) don't
> depreciate nearly so fast.

I think the guy should thank whomever was willing to buy his fluffed up
truck at 3x market value.

I have a number of friends who are involved in car dealerships etc and
they all say you can barely give fluffed up trucks away. My one friend
said that he recently went to a repo auction of vehicles repossessed by
a mega bank. He said most everything offered was 1-2 year old fluffed up
trucks such as the escalade. He said the minimums were around $9,000 and
there were no bidders. He said they were normal vehicles and none were
trashed.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 6:17 pm
From: George

James wrote:

>
> You could come up to Canada and take your pick.
>
> I know that bringing cars in from the US can take a week for the
> paperwork to process and cost you a thousand or more. But dealers in
> Canada have lots, and they are exactly the same models as in the US
> (slightly higher MSRP though). I expect the US paperwork would be
> similar to Canada's.
>
> When they came to Canada in 2003, they outsold Mercedes expectations.
> They do work fine in the snow (with snow tires from dealer) . They are
> not desigjned to cruise at 75 MPH all day, but they can drive the
> limit everywhere.
>
> They have a well designed safety cage - go to you tube and search for
> the footage of a Mercdes E class and a Smart car colliding.
>
> Most of the critics didn't like the transmission.
>
> James

The US model is different than what was imported into Canada. My one
friend did check about bringing one in and it was spendier than a grand.

I did see all of the various crash test footage and it is definitely a
safe car. I drove my buddies a couple hundred miles and it is not
uncomfortable. The car is solidly built. The transmission is an
electronic manual as used on other Daimler designs. There is nothing
wrong just a different feel when it shifts. Anyone who is used to a
normal "automatic" could draw interesting conclusions if they didn't
understand the arrangement in the Smartcar.

My buddy already picked up snow tires for his. Everyone says they
perform really well in snow just like the old VW bugs because the engine
weight is over the rear wheels.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 6:42 pm
From: James

On Jul 22, 9:17 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> James wrote:
>
> > You could come up to Canada and take your pick.
>
> > I know that bringing cars in from the US can take a week for the
> > paperwork to process and cost you a thousand or more. But dealers in
> > Canada have lots, and they are exactly the same models as in the US
> > (slightly higher MSRP though). I expect the US paperwork would be
> > similar to Canada's.
>
> > When they came to Canada in 2003, they outsold Mercedes expectations.
> > They do work fine in the snow (with snow tires from dealer) . They are
> > not desigjned to cruise at 75 MPH all day, but they can drive the
> > limit everywhere.
>
> > They have a well designed safety cage - go to you tube and search for
> > the footage of a Mercdes E class and a Smart car colliding.
>
> > Most of the critics didn't like the transmission.
>
> > James
>
> The US model is different than what was imported into Canada. My one
> friend did check about bringing one in and it was spendier than a grand.
>
> I did see all of the various crash test footage and it is definitely a
> safe car. I drove my buddies a couple hundred miles and it is not
> uncomfortable. The car is solidly built. The transmission is an
> electronic manual as used on other Daimler designs. There is nothing
> wrong just a different feel when it shifts. Anyone who is used to a
> normal "automatic" could draw interesting conclusions if they didn't
> understand the arrangement in the Smartcar.
>
> My buddy already picked up snow tires for his. Everyone says they
> perform really well in snow just like the old VW bugs because the engine
> weight is over the rear wheels.- Hide quoted text -
>
The car being imported into the US is exactly the same model as being
imported into Canada today. But you are correct that the initial one
that Canada got, which was a turbo diesel will not be imported into
the US. In their infinite wisdom MB decided to make it one model for
both Canada and the US and actually stoppped importing the diesel into
Canada until the US was ready for the gas. So Smart cars became scarce
for a while in Canada, though most stores didn't run out completely.

The critics I was referring to are automobile journalists. Their
comments on the tranny were that there was a significant lag between
shifts. I'm sure you can get used to it. But these guys are plenty
uised to driuving everythingf SVTs to sequential shift boxes. Everyone
has commented. Perhaps they are comparing to the excellent manuals and
automatics in the Yaris and Fit.

James

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 8:52 pm
From: "MarieD"

We have a two-story house, and one a/c unit. The upstairs rooms are terribly
hot in the summertime. It doesn't even feel like cold air is coming out of
the vents if the temperatures go above 85F outside. Fans do NOT help. We
were told to check in the attic to see if the cold air is leaking out
somewhere up there. When the temps are getting up to 100F, it's just about
unbearable upstairs. Does anyone have any ideas? Saturday my husband is
going to go into the attic to check for leaks.

I have tried keeping the doors closed upstairs, and also keeping them all
open. Neither makes a difference. And I do block the windows from letting
the sun through. btw the windows are new, double-paned, supposed to be good
at keeping the air from leaking in/out.

--
Marie
~The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of
tolerance comes when we are in the majority.~
Ralph W. Sockman

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 8:23 pm
From: Walter

"MarieD" <abc@123.com> wrote in
news:dWxhk.4414$KI7.1881@newsfe08.iad:

> We have a two-story house, and one a/c unit. The upstairs
> rooms are terribly hot in the summertime. It doesn't even feel
> like cold air is coming out of the vents if the temperatures
> go above 85F outside. Fans do NOT help. We were told to check
> in the attic to see if the cold air is leaking out somewhere
> up there. When the temps are getting up to 100F, it's just
> about unbearable upstairs. Does anyone have any ideas?
> Saturday my husband is going to go into the attic to check for
> leaks.
>
> I have tried keeping the doors closed upstairs, and also
> keeping them all open. Neither makes a difference. And I do
> block the windows from letting the sun through. btw the
> windows are new, double-paned, supposed to be good at keeping
> the air from leaking in/out.

Can you afford a swamp cooler? Mine is set in the middle of
my upper floor. Works great.

Do you use your fans to pull the hot air out of the upper floor to
the outside

==============================================================================
TOPIC: discount air jordan 1-23 shoes prada chanel dior sneakers 8-35USD(www.
cicitrade.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8901cdce146ceb7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 10:10 pm
From: cicitrade001@yahoo.cn

We are supplier in china,sell Jordan shoes,air max shoes,shox
trainers, dunk shoes,air force
one,etc..our company supply are as follows:
1).AIR Jordans shoes
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
CiCi
www.cicitrade.com
Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap ED hardy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/67649b7683df7fef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 11:04 pm
From: xiaomu

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap ED hardy hoodies man
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23ab1f2638edbdf9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 11:04 pm
From: xiaomu

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 22 2008 11:05 pm
From: xiaomu

==============================================================================

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