Frugal Living: Oct 28, 2008

Tuesday, October 28, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where are YOU cutting back?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a47415e5933d30b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:23 am
From: Charlie Self

On Oct 26, 2:20 am, FlexUP! wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:21:22 -0500, Ignoramus3071
>
> <ignoramus3...@NOSPAM.3071.invalid> wrote:
> >I now use both sides of toilet paper
>
> I took free yoga classes at our local library, until I was limber enough to
> lick my own butt. The taste is nasty, but I save $42 per year in toilet
> paper.

And think of what you save on snacks.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:23 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Oct 25, 4:02 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> >back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> >farther?
>
> >I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> >how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>
> >Thanks
>
> >TMT
>
> ==========
> Most of the posters to both RCM and AMC tend to be prudent and
> frugal consumers [translastion real cheapscrews] so you may not
> see much change here.
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
> -------------------------------------------
> He that will not apply new remedies,
> must expect new evils:
> for Time is the greatest innovator: and
> if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
> and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
> what shall be the end?
>
> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I know that most posters to these groups are ..err...value oriented
folks..;<)...so I figured it made sense to ask the "experts".

TMT

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:27 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Oct 25, 8:22 pm, jo4hn <jo...@mahalo.charter.net> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> > In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> > back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> > farther?
>
> > I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> > how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > TMT
>
> Query: Are you selling some of those excess tools you apparently have?
> mahalo,
> jo4hn

Nope...times are that TOUGH yet. ;<)

TMT

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:28 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

And I should note that used machine supplies have other uses too...why
that used sandpaper works just fine in the bathroom. ;<)

TMT

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:44 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Oct 25, 5:54 pm, Jim Stewart <jstew...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus3071 wrote:
> > I now use both sides of toilet paper
>
> Another Russian joke?

Likely another Russian reality.

TMT

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:47 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Oct 25, 5:24 pm, "Buddy Matlosz" <amatl...@optonline.net> wrote:
> In your case, you can downsize to Just_Enough_Tools.
>
> B.
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:68bba63c-348a-4da5-a10c-26d31e952c5b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> > back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> > farther?
>
> > I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> > how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > TMT- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Things would have to get REALLY bad for me to sell some of my
toys..err..I mean my tools. ;<)

On the subject of tools, has anyone seen nice tools surfacing on the
used market?

I can't say that I have seen anything of significance ..yet.

Houses, cars, boats, rvs...yes...but the real neat stuff like
tools...nothing much.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I think I'm throwing in the towel - house reappraisal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3e20997903e48b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 9:14 am
From: phil scott

On Oct 26, 2:01 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "phil scott" <p...@philscott.net> wrote in message
>
> news:925bb396-c08c-4751-b83f-101448e8e9d8@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> on the view issue.... in New hampshire starting a couple of years ago
> is the 'view tax factor'... one guys taxes went from $500 a year to
> $3500.. because he had a killer view... so he got a 'view assessement
> factor of 7'
>
> that is 7x the assessment if it had no view.
>
> this mess wont stop until bloated govt has eaten the tax payers alive
> and the tax base collapses entirely.... meantime cops are retiring at
> 100,000 to 1150,000 a year or more...
>
> Cops retiring on 1150,000 per year? Where?

thats $150,000 a year iin some but not all cases... some higher, some
lower. Many in the $120,000 year range... from a base retirement of
about 80 or 90,000. it gets pumped up by means of a practice called
'spiking' thats because since approx the year 2000 retirement is based
on the last years pay... so other officers take sick time off, so the
last year guys get to work double or triple time hours in their last
year, running that income up dramatically, then they retire at 90% of
that in california...in New York City its 100%.. this has been
reported in the SF Chronicle, LA times, and Marin County Journal that
I am aware of... the unions involved do their best to stifle any
reports on this matter...so you you dont see much about it. It was
also covered in the Vallejo city bankrupcy this year. (80% of city
budget went to police and fire, about half of that to pay retirement
obligations for police and fire).

the numbers vary but thats the general picture.. The SF chronicle
story named several of the employees involved, a green card hospital
security guard retiring at 158,000 a year (done by working 16 hours a
day in his last year and saving sick days etc)...and a woman who
retired from city hall staff at age 76... with close to $180,000 a
year.

Not much of this was true prior to 2000... these are recent union
contracts. Ive talked to several retired police about this.. many
getting 40 to 60k a year... retired prior to 2000. they say they are
worried about the back lash and are not impressed either, they know it
wont fly for long... it cant.

Phil scott
>
> If the assessor says it's woth 7 times as much, they'd better be able to show
> you the comp sales.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 9:17 am
From: phil scott

> If the assessor says it's woth 7 times as much, they'd better be able to show
> you the comp sales.

Comparable sales make sense for sure, that report was from 3 or 4
years ago... the law would have been tested
by now, searching google for 'New Hampshire, view tax factor' should
get some data on it. I'll look it up later.

Phil scott

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 9:20 am
From: phil scott

here is a link on the New hampshire view tax...there are a few hundred
articles..the citizens are outraged.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DJADN01&show_article=1

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 11:58 am
From: phil scott

One other thing... clearly i can see that both of these issues are
beyond belief for you...as they were for me as well.... complete
criminal insanity is not fathomable by reasonable people...especially
those brought up when such crime was not as completely rampant as it
is today.

what we will see next from out govt, state, local and federal,
primarily federal will be even futher beyond belief...completely
stunning in fact, such as giving 70 billion of the 700 billion fake
bail out directly to the criminals that caused the problem, to remain
in their positions, recieving bonuses. into the hundreds of millions
each firm! then ruthless attempts to collect taxes from the
starving middle class, ruining them and those businesses utterly.

it will get nasty as hell with govt bloat rampant and having run up a
100 trillion dollar debt, it cant stop taxing... but will be forced
to stop spending as the tax base collapses and it will be no use
printing more funny money.

... when govt spending is curtailed the already collapsing consumer
spending will come to a diasterous crawl.

None of that is rocket science. see my other posts for a list of
the driving factors... those done reverse at this stage.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maximizing Welfare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9949fc83cc11aec3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:31 am
From: Jeff

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
> It sounds like you may be singing the loser's anthem before the game
> even starts. Perhaps more facts would allow people to offer more
> helpful ideas. Are you disabled, lazy, alien or whatever?

I strongly suspect he is trolling to stir up a pet peeve. It's a red
meat issue.

Jeff

Each
> situation could point to different answers. Of course, we know you are
> asking for a friend.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:33 am
From: Jeff

William Souden wrote:
> Finally, a topic Rod Speed can talk about.

When is the last time you posted *anything* that wasn't about Rod Speed?

Jeff

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 9:59 am
From: "Bob F"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:ge5iha$5el$1@news.datemas.de...
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
> If you wait until Obama gets elected, anyone will be able to collect for any
> reason in any state for an unlimited amount of time.

It is amazing, the lies that the republican voters will swallow. You just make
things up and state them as fact. Over and over. As if if you repeat them
enough, they will become real.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How big is your entertainment budget?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c6aa20660c0230b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 10:49 am
From: OhioGuy

I'm just curious how much others set aside for this category. We
have two adults and 2 children in our family, and we set aside $40 every
two weeks for all entertainment purposes.

This means eating out, movies, music, books, tickets to anything,
etc.
We have to have the $ in there, or we do an alternative low cost or free
activity. (board games, DVD from the library, etc.)

How much do you set aside in your budget for these things?

Thanks

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 12:16 pm
From: Jeff

OhioGuy wrote:
> I'm just curious how much others set aside for this category. We have
> two adults and 2 children in our family, and we set aside $40 every two
> weeks for all entertainment purposes.

$20/week for the family?

Well, I guess it depends on where you live. If I lived somewhere where
there was less to do I would spend less.

I go out to eat twice a week to a decent restaurant, do an outing
every Sunday, catch an occasional Concert, festival or party, am a
museum member and this time of year catch at least a couple of
photographic exhibits a week. Been down to the beach twice this summer
and up to the lake a lot. Mountain season now... and lots of Halloween
parties.

>
> This means eating out, movies, music, books, tickets to anything, etc.
> We have to have the $ in there, or we do an alternative low cost or free
> activity. (board games, DVD from the library, etc.)
>
> How much do you set aside in your budget for these things?

Sorry, no budget, just spend as I go. My living costs are
extraordinarily low otherwise. Old car, house is paid for. Mostly solar
heat. Eat a lot of chicken... I'd rather have fun than a new car.

YMMV.

Jeff
>
> Thanks

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to make money easily through online.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2535e65ea9c733f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 10:15 am
From: shilpa

Put in a Free Advertisement.
2. Get others to put in Free Advertisements.
3. Get paid!!

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

==============================================================================
TOPIC: vacuum cleaner new - bletherings on consumer chauvinism
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e8cc394cc50a344?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 10:44 am
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 27, 9:55 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Back to the 120Vac problem here, American washing machines run off
> 120Vac so there's not enough juice to put a heater in, they run off
> domestic hot water which of course is not always hot because the
> dishwasher empties out the hot tank each time.

BS.

The average Energy Star dishwasher uses 4 gallons of water, where the
average non-Energy Star dishwasher uses 6 gallons.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 10:59 am
From: "Percival P. Cassidy"

On 10/25/08 03:26 am Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux"
>
> (which was later plaguerised in the computing industry as
> "Nothing sucks like a Vax", the name of a range of minicomputers).

And if Microsoft ever built a vacuum cleaner, it would be their first
product that didn't suck.

Perce

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 11:04 am
From: "Percival P. Cassidy"

On 10/27/08 06:05 am max wrote:

>> If you want a cyclone cleaner that works, you're really going
>> to struggle with anything other that a Dyson. Dyson have a stack
>> of patents relating to designing cyclones small enough to be part
>> of a vacuum cleaner which actually work, that's it's pretty
>> impossible for other manufacturers to come close. His original
>> dual cyclone patent expired which is why you now see other
>> manufacturers doing those, but they're stuck with following all
>> his advances 25 years behind.
>
> horse shit. utter horseshit. Dyson's vacuums are devoid of any genuine
> innovation whatsoever. His patents are as meritous as AOL's attempt to
> patent the smiley face emoticon. He adapted the cyclone filter to a
> carpet sucker. whoopie. wow!!! His innovation has a great more to do
> with the advances made in material science making available to him the
> possibility of doing something different. . A Dyson-style vacuum made
> in 1950 would have been beyond the means of 75% of consumers.
>
> His brushless air jet models are polycarbonate frauds.

Hoover and the rest denigrated Dyson's ideas at first but then copied
them. I happened to be in the UK when the court found Hoover guilty of
infringing Dyson's patents.

We love our Dyson.

Perce

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Democrats sexy meltdown
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a6dddafe8fb271f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 11:02 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

http://salo.coolpage.biz/amateur.htm read full� Natalie felt it was
only fair that I remove the gag from Bills mouth so he could answer
his loving wife and daughters probing questions. After clearing his
throat he said something that I will never forget Hillary I feel your
pain http://groups.google.com/group/sexual-meltdown http://sexual-meltdown.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stagflation ...the next big thang...and a cure of sorts
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/619c01ee4664afb1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 11:17 am
From: phil scott

Educate yourself at the hands on level...become an entrepreneur, thats
where baloney walks and skills talk...

I am 67 years old and currently doing reasonably well only because my
skill sets have recently come back in demand due to the decline of
talent as most old farts are retiring.. and because of my ongoing
agressive accumulation of new skills and abilities.

...the new breed of kiddies doesnt have much of a clue... and that
includes many in the under age 45 bracket .. under at 35 its a
complete disaster as best I can tell... I run into pipe wholesalers
these days who will send me a box of pipe unions when i ordered
valves... completely stunning levels of incompetence... on a recent
test that included the branch manager... I gave him a spec and a
sketch of a common fitting adapter... he came back with a whole box
full of everything but and said take your pick.... no clue at
all..not even the faintest.

(there is hope, a new breed... teens to 20 somethings seem to have
seen through much of this but are hampered by a grossly incompetent US
educational system, lack of employer training in a majority of cases,
and such low pay that they have no incentive to study up at home..)

Stagflation:
See my other posts on the underlying factors. these are not
reversible in the US. We are in for it.

accordingly the stock market will *rise in terms of dollars per share,
as wages decline (in relation to living costs)... thats stagnation/
inflation combination.... it will bankrupt a lot of people and
companies. it will make the US a bad place to invest (see caveat
below)... the US had been living on foreign capitol for decades...that
has come to an end.

****
However...
I expect the stock market to double in terms of dollars per share over
the next few years... as bread, gasoline, raw material increases at
15% more than that. tripleing, as the DOW doubles. (a net loss of
value in the range of 50%..and thats also been the case with the DOW
since 1993. its lost net value, as the dollar price rose.

***

the ultra rich will get a lot richer by means of buying on margin..
5% . so that the gains as the other 95% of the stock doubles will
amount to thousands of percentage points profit on the 5% they
invested in buying the stock on margin.

thats an insiders game... outsiders trying to tag along will be taken
out by the pre-arranged dips in this overall market uptrend. The
insiders (using untraceable) proxies know what 'good news', bad news
or spin they will release and when and be ahead of that with their
long or short selling.

***
99% of the general public will lose on that basis...but limitless
wealth awaits those insiders... there is no cure in sight as this is
not preventable.

***

My advice; If you go long on margin, get the longest contracts
possible, and ride them out.. be well informed, keep diversified in
the major industrials....you might have a slim chance that way..very
slim.... these largest firms have a harder time manipulating thier
stock price than smaller companies with narrower vested interests.

and invest in yourself, your own marketable skill sets, health and
fitness, keeping costs well below income, with minimal taxation
exposure., take care of your business relationships and income
streams.

as this mess tanks, and govt keeps on bloating it will become
ruthlessly voracious... ruining many lives and eliminating whats left
of the middle class.

cutting ppty tax, and income tax exposure will be critical to
survival.. there are many legal and ethical ways to accomplish that
summed up in the categories of cooperation, joint venture, right
relationship and full use of capitol equipment etc.

Phil scott

you can find my list of demographic and underlying factors posts on
Misc.Invest.stocks and alt.computer.consultants

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 1:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote

> Educate yourself at the hands on level...become an
> entrepreneur, thats where baloney walks and skills talk...

> I am 67 years old and currently doing reasonably well

No you havent. You dont even have a house to live in.

> only because my skill sets have recently come back in demand due
> to the decline of talent as most old farts are retiring.. and because
> of my ongoing agressive accumulation of new skills and abilities.

And when you end up with a serious medical problem the shit will really hit the fan.

> ...the new breed of kiddies doesnt have much of a clue...
> and that includes many in the under age 45 bracket ..
> under at 35 its a complete disaster as best I can tell...

The ancient greeks used to sit around in their togas or
whatever they wore and rave on precisely the same way.

> I run into pipe wholesalers these days who will send me a box of pipe
> unions when i ordered valves... completely stunning levels of incompetence...

Corse nothing like that ever happened in the past, eh ?

> on a recent test that included the branch manager...
> I gave him a spec and a sketch of a common fitting adapter...
> he came back with a whole box full of everything but and
> said take your pick.... no clue at all..not even the faintest.

Corse nothing like that ever happened in the past, eh ?

> (there is hope, a new breed... teens to 20 somethings seem to have
> seen through much of this but are hampered by a grossly incompetent
> US educational system, lack of employer training in a majority of cases,
> and such low pay that they have no incentive to study up at home..)

Anyone with a clue doesnt need an education system.

> Stagflation:
> See my other posts on the underlying factors.

No thanks, that was all completely mindless silly shit.

> these are not reversible in the US. We are in for it.

Have fun explaining how come we managed to survive the great depression fine.

> accordingly the stock market will *rise in terms of dollars per share, as wages
> decline (in relation to living costs)... thats stagnation/ inflation combination....

No it isnt.

> it will bankrupt a lot of people and companies. it will make the US a bad place to invest (see
> caveat below)... the US had been living on foreign capitol for decades...that has come to an end.

No it hasnt. And its capital, not capitol. A capitol is a building, stupid.

> ****
> However...
> I expect the stock market to double in terms of dollars per share
> over the next few years... as bread, gasoline, raw material
> increases at 15% more than that. tripleing, as the DOW doubles.

More fool you. The price of commoditys is dropping thru the floor, stupid.

Have a look at the price of wheat sometime.

> (a net loss of value in the range of 50%..and thats also been the case
> with the DOW since 1993. its lost net value, as the dollar price rose.

That wasnt due to the dollar price rising.

> ***

> the ultra rich will get a lot richer by means of buying on margin.. 5%

No one will let them buy on margin with the DOW dropping like a stone, stupid.

> so that the gains as the other 95% of the stock doubles
> will amount to thousands of percentage points profit on
> the 5% they invested in buying the stock on margin.

No one will let them buy on margin with the DOW dropping like a stone, stupid.

And they'll be losing money when the stock drops like a stone anyway.

> thats an insiders game... outsiders trying to tag along will be
> taken out by the pre-arranged dips in this overall market uptrend.

There is no overall market uptrend, just sucker rallys.

> The insiders (using untraceable) proxies know what 'good
> news', bad news or spin they will release and when and
> be ahead of that with their long or short selling.

How odd that so many hedge funds are sinking beneath the waves.

> ***
> 99% of the general public will lose on that basis...but limitless wealth
> awaits those insiders... there is no cure in sight as this is not preventable.

How odd that so many hedge funds are sinking beneath the waves.

> ***

> My advice;

After your mindless silly shit above, no one is going to take your 'advice' on anything at all, ever.

> If you go long on margin, get the longest contracts possible,
> and ride them out.. be well informed, keep diversified in the
> major industrials....you might have a slim chance that way..very
> slim.... these largest firms have a harder time manipulating thier
> stock price than smaller companies with narrower vested interests.

> and invest in yourself, your own marketable skill sets, health and fitness,
> keeping costs well below income, with minimal taxation exposure., take
> care of your business relationships and income streams.

Makes a lot more sense to have owned the house you live in before the real estate bubble.

You couldnt even manage that.

> as this mess tanks, and govt keeps on bloating it will become ruthlessly
> voracious... ruining many lives and eliminating whats left of the middle class.

You aint anything even remotely resembling anything like middle class.

Just another bum.

> cutting ppty tax, and income tax exposure will be critical to survival..

Having your house paid off is actually if the shit does hit the fan.

> there are many legal and ethical ways to accomplish that
> summed up in the categories of cooperation, joint venture,
> right relationship and full use of capitol equipment etc.

They wont let bums like you use the capitol, they keep that for the politicians.

> you can find my list of demographic and underlying factors
> posts on Misc.Invest.stocks and alt.computer.consultants

That shit should be flushed where it belongs since it clearly
didnt even manage to allow you to own a decent house.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap eBay CCTV Security System Installation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f8239fd18f1e254f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:00 pm
From: Paul Michaels

A friend of mine wanted to install an inexpensive CCTV & DVR security
camera system at his property.

So I went on eBay and chose all the cheapest components including 4
generic "Made In China" cameras and a generic DVR PCI capture card for
the old PC he already had.

I took pictures of the whole procedure and wrote up a quick guide. If
any of you are looking into installing a low cost CCTV system, it
might be helpful.

Here's the gallery -
http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Cheap-eBay-CCTV-DVR-Security-System-Installation/

The quality of the video is fine considering the very low price but
we're thinking of upgrading to slightly better cameras in the future.

Cheers,
Paul Michaels
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Smallest Houses Ever?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1e9f74832b10815e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 1:08 pm
From: "viet nam vet."

In article <HxTMk.218123$C65.10206@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com>,
"SJF" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

> "ukie" <U.Betcherass@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4619dd1e-1486-465b-ad9b-d8896716aafa@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> >I found this site through reading a news article yesterday. I thought
> > some folks here might get a kick out of it.
> > It's a guy who builds and sells tiny little houses. I've always
> > daydreamed about living in an Airstream trailer or maybe a converted
> > train car, but these homes seem pretty cool too (as long as you're not
> > claustrophobic):
> >
> > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
>
> In Copenhagen there is a park divided into small lots where people build and
> maintain such tiny houses complete with compact landscaping. Story is that
> the local ruler, sometime in the 1800's, set this up to let urban tenement
> dwellers have a place to get out in the open on holidays. Nowadays, it
> seems to be more a hobby project for the present owners. Most are very
> attractive in a cute way and show loving care.
>
> SJF

I've seen this movement as a way to secure the basics and as "things"
improve , it's a base to expand on.
Like don't forget to leave a door in each wall to connect to an addition.
--
Money; What a concept !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get your money back on any product that fails
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf36a607cf5a61cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 12:34 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

I in fact got the use of a very decent Logitech keyboard and mouse
for 5 years for the cost of that money for that time just by choosing
a mouse that they didnt continue to produce, claiming under warranty
just before the warranty expired and since they couldnt replace the
mouse with another with the same button collection etc, they had to
give me a full refund of the original purchase price instead.

misterfact@yahoo.com wrote:
> How to get your money back on most any product that fails just after
> its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:
>
> Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:
>
> Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers
>
> SONY microcassette tape-recorders
>
> any compact flourescent light bulb
>
> digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc
>
>
> SIMPLY:
>
> 1. Buy the SAME product at any store.
>
> 2. Take advantage of the store's return policy! Wait two weeks; then
> put the failed product in the new product's packaging and return it to
> the store with the new product's sales receipt. Get your money back!
>
> The more people who do this- the sooner these sloppy manufacturers
> will make a quality product and give a reasonable warranty! That even
> goes for the cheap Chinese items at the Dollar Store.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Estate sales aren't frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6b2d8fe95a5dd9a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 7:26 pm
From: FrouClou

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in

> Not talking about "yard sales". I'm talking about
> professional "estate sales" where the grieving family hires a
> 3rd party to liquidate the assets of the recently deceased.
> These "estate agents" also seem to bring along leftovers
> they've acquired from other sales and the prices are
> outrageous. Of course there's those "professional" sellers
> who hunt down deals at other garage sales, buy cheap and then
> run their own sale, marking up the price considerably. They
> might also be annoying enough to title it an "estate sale"
> even though no one died. So in terms of pricing hierachy it
> seems to be from least to most: yard sales, flea markets,
> thrift stores, estate sales. But I do agree with you that the
> best "yard sales" are in neighborhoods where the people just
> want to clear out the garage and aren't that worried about
> what they paid for the strawberry iMac they bought 5 years
> ago.

You don't have to be dead to have an estate sale.

You just need an estate to have a sale. :-)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:49 am
From: Al Bundy

Seerialmom wrote:
> Unless they're run by the family themselves and just want to get rid
> of everything. I'm amazed at the ridiculous prices charged by these
> professional "Estate" sales people. $20 for a basic Pyrex nesting
> bowl I can buy at a thrift store for $3 or a normal yard sale for 50
> cents? I went to a couple of these estate sales over the weekend and
> the prices are apalling. If I wasn't on the hunt for an old school
> console stereo (which I plan to repurpose as a TV stand/entertainment
> center, I don't want some cheap particle board set up from Ikea), I
> wouldn't have even bothered stopping.

Through the years I have learned to avoid all garage sale where the
sign says Estate Sale, antiques, or crafts. The words "HUGE" and
"MULTI-FAMILY" often mean they don't have much to sell either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: vacuum cleaner new
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e8cc394cc50a344?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 8:51 pm
From: "Art"

"Archon" <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6niNk.95011$Dw1.5059@fe01.news.easynews.com...
> max wrote:
>> In article <49058ae0$0$502$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
>> andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <af7Nk.51798$XT1.33709@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
>>> E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> john d hamilton wrote:
>>>>> This photo shows the black very thin plastic type filter that sits
>>>>> facing the fan on a household Hitachi CV-SF8 vacuum cleaner.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11rxdm0&s=4
>>>>>
>>>>> Immediately behind this sits a plastic frame with a nylon fine mesh
>>>>> filter and sitting in this frame is a black high density sponge
>>>>> filter. (doing a search on this sponge filter, it's called a
>>>>> Mesh-Urethane filter).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6gv5tl&s=4
>>>>>
>>>>> This Mesh-Urethane filter is on the *right* side of this photo, the
>>>>> black one on the left is the reverse of the very thin plastic type
>>>>> filter referred to above.
>>>>>
>>>>> This Mesh-Urethane filter really restricts the air flow. Its a bit
>>>>> better when I wash it out under the tap with soap and water but soon
>>>>> seems to clog up again. I find it works quite well if I relace it
>>>>> entirely with a piece of soft tissue toilet paper, and keep changing
>>>>> the paper and all the debris that builds up behind it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now the question here is what exactly is this very thin plastic type
>>>>> filter (if indeed it is actually a filter) doing? It's the one on the
>>>>> left in the second photo. It seems to have microscopic slits in its
>>>>> surface, but when I wash it, it wont pass water through it, which
>>>>> surely it would if its some kind of filter? It's a thin flexible
>>>>> piece of plastic sheet, and seems really strong. Almost like a sheet
>>>>> of carbon fibre.
>>>> The first stage is supposed to get rid of almost all the dust by
>>>> centrifugal force. If the air then clogs a filter frequently, I wonder
>>>> if something is wrong with the first stage.
>>> If you want a cyclone cleaner that works, you're really going
>>> to struggle with anything other that a Dyson. Dyson have a stack
>>> of patents relating to designing cyclones small enough to be part
>>> of a vacuum cleaner which actually work, that's it's pretty
>>> impossible for other manufacturers to come close. His original
>>> dual cyclone patent expired which is why you now see other
>>> manufacturers doing those, but they're stuck with following all
>>> his advances 25 years behind.
>>
>> horse shit. utter horseshit. Dyson's vacuums are devoid of any genuine
>> innovation whatsoever. His patents are as meritous as AOL's attempt to
>> patent the smiley face emoticon. He adapted the cyclone filter to a
>> carpet sucker. whoopie. wow!!! His innovation has a great more to do
>> with the advances made in material science making available to him the
>> possibility of doing something different. . A Dyson-style vacuum made in
>> 1950 would have been beyond the means of 75% of consumers. His brushless
>> air jet models are polycarbonate frauds. People should AVOID Dyson
>> vacuums unless they like pissing their money away. They work no better
>> than any other cyclone vacuum available at Walmart or Target. No
>> difference. No Advances. Simple 19th century soot collection.
>>
>> They are, however, have the unique benefit of being possessed of superb
>> design, and are, as such works of functional art worthy of buying simply
>> for that reason. But a frugal person would avoid Dysons as if it were a
>> plague carrier. We won't mention the abominable ergonomics of some of
>> his designs, as they are self-evident and glaring. Dyson = Hype.
>>
>> Save money-- buy a Hoover or a Bissel or a Snorch.
>>
>> .max
>>
> Horseshit yerself,
>
> If it wasn't for Dyson we would still be getting ripped off for hundreds
> of dollars of bags and filters a year.....

Hundreds of dollars on bags per year? Do you vacuum 24 hours a day?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:02 pm
From: "Art"

"Bored Borg" <boredborg@gasboardsmorgasbord.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C52C06E900162272F0182648@news.astraweb.com...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:52:03 +0000, Archon wrote
> (in article <6dnNk.177673$KY3.158041@fe02.news.easynews.com>):
>
>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>
> <ausgesnipt>
>>> Some UK kettles have 3kW elements, while some US kettles have 1.75kW
>>> elements. So it takes 45 seconds to boil a cup of water in the US and
>>> 26 seconds in the UK.
>>>
>>> Standard US outlets are for 15 amps. Most homes use 20-amp wiring. If
>>> enough Americans were impatient, there would be 20-amp kettles, which
>>> could heat the water in 33 seconds.
>>>
>>> It appears that the most common size of Dyson vacuum in the UK is 1400
>>> W. Some US vacuums use roughly that much. If US vacuums really aren't
>>> as good, the problem must be something else.
>> HSN were advertising some lousy vacuum based on its 1400W or wattever
>> (pun) power, the power it consumes probably totally unrelated to the
>> work done.
>
> A friend o'mine bought a super-dooper HD Whirlpool washing machine to
> handle
> the load from her incontinent, disabled kid. A long time researching and
> taking sales advice.
> The machine was HUGE, seemed built like a tank. It was heavy and gawdawful
> expensive and could take a king-size heavy-tog quilt with room to add,
> probably, a sofa and the family dog. It had great, industrial type styling
> and we had a celebration party 'cos we were all so impressed. (yes,
> really.
> loads of people watching a washing machine with glasses of bubbly... sad
> but
> true.) Everyone thought it was a 20yr investment.
>
> The trouble was that NOTHING came out clean. The KS quilt, clothes,
> underwear, ordinary shirts... everything. Had an engineer out to check it.
> It
> was up to spec. No faults anywhere - except in the design for performance.
> She tried every recommended combination of detergent, heat, agitation,
> voodoo
> incantations, payload size... No matter what, everything was dirty and
> covered with felt-ish fluff. The manual even referred to this as a known
> "feature" of this type of machine and called it something like "nubbing"
> or
> "bobbling" or whatever, saying it may be an initial problem with some
> fabrics
> and could be cut down by using their speciall no-nubbiing, anti-bobbling
> zero-beading chaff-stopping detergent. Very expensive special detergent,
> that
> is. The very expensive special detergent was duly bought, and used. No
> improvement in the bobble-chaffing nub beading at all, and the clothes
> were
> still stained, dirty.. and covered in all this raised pile stuff.
>
> The machine was great at accelerating wear in its payload but lousy at
> cleaning.
>
> She got her money back as the machine was argued not to be of merchantable
> quality - i.e. it didn't (couldn't) perform its intended task of being a
> washing machine.
> This, apparently was America's Finest - at least as far as those of us in
> the
> export slipstream are aware.
>
> This begs all sorts of questions..
>
> er.. Do you guys in the USA who have carpet cleaners that don't clean, and
> washing machines that don't either... er, <ahem>... well. what I mean
> is....
> I hope that showers work O.K. at least.. :-)
>
> Maybe the domestic machines are different.
>
> Personally, I love USA engineering. I prefer over-robust materials - cast
> iron, milled alluminum (!) bolted together with proper fasteners - to the
> oriental approach, which is to work to incredibly fine tolerances but to
> specify very thin cheese as the construction material. I love the apparent
> non-obsolescence of the USA paradigm which implies that in a post
> apocalyptic
> world we can all get by, fixing stuff with a hammer and baling wire,
> making
> spares as needed with the help of the local blacksnith. It's just got a
> better feeling that knowing you'll need a dedicated computer with
> constanly
> updated firmware to make the most basic adjustments to your hedgetrimmer,
> toaster, motorcycle, router and yes indeed, _washing machine_... It's the
> sort of thing that drives us to working with wood, isn't it?
>
> The rub comes when the tank-like build quality is not matched by
> _functional_
> quality, either through crap design (Whirlpool washing machines, so it
> seems), lousy tolerances in manufacturing (AMC Harley Davidson) or
> anally-retentive tolerance specifications (M16 carbines ??)
>
> When USA conservative engineering is combined with marketing honesty, you
> guys turn out gear that rocks. It doesn't happen all the time, however,
> and
> that needs a little consumer honesty to point out. Just 'cos something is
> marked "Made in the USA" doesn't mean it's going to trump the competition,
> regardless. Often it does, but there's no sense in getting all fierce and
> patriotic to try and flog a dead horse - at any price.When it works, it
> works. SnapOn tools, etc.. The process is not automatic, though. Badging a
> thing "American" does not confer quality. Neither does "Made in Japan." It
> can often be an indicator that something has a high probability of being
> superior, but it's only a probability marker. The quality comes from
> something else, but hey, it feels good to support the home team, and
> there's
> nothing wrong with that - just let's not get confused about the issues.
>
>

If the super duper HD Whirlpool machine was a front loader, it was probably
manufactured in Germany, not the U.S. Kind of kills your whole argument.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:06 pm
From: "Art"

"Archon" <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LiuNk.162681$9s3.159328@fe07.news.easynews.com...
> Bored Borg wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:52:03 +0000, Archon wrote
>> (in article <6dnNk.177673$KY3.158041@fe02.news.easynews.com>):
>>
>>> E Z Peaces wrote:
>>
>> <ausgesnipt>
>>>> Some UK kettles have 3kW elements, while some US kettles have 1.75kW
>>>> elements. So it takes 45 seconds to boil a cup of water in the US and
>>>> 26 seconds in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Standard US outlets are for 15 amps. Most homes use 20-amp wiring. If
>>>> enough Americans were impatient, there would be 20-amp kettles, which
>>>> could heat the water in 33 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> It appears that the most common size of Dyson vacuum in the UK is 1400
>>>> W. Some US vacuums use roughly that much. If US vacuums really aren't
>>>> as good, the problem must be something else.
>>> HSN were advertising some lousy vacuum based on its 1400W or wattever
>>> (pun) power, the power it consumes probably totally unrelated to the
>>> work done.
>>
>> A friend o'mine bought a super-dooper HD Whirlpool washing machine to
>> handle the load from her incontinent, disabled kid. A long time
>> researching and taking sales advice.
>> The machine was HUGE, seemed built like a tank. It was heavy and
>> gawdawful expensive and could take a king-size heavy-tog quilt with room
>> to add, probably, a sofa and the family dog. It had great, industrial
>> type styling and we had a celebration party 'cos we were all so
>> impressed. (yes, really. loads of people watching a washing machine with
>> glasses of bubbly... sad but true.) Everyone thought it was a 20yr
>> investment.
>>
>> The trouble was that NOTHING came out clean. The KS quilt, clothes,
>> underwear, ordinary shirts... everything. Had an engineer out to check
>> it. It was up to spec. No faults anywhere - except in the design for
>> performance. She tried every recommended combination of detergent, heat,
>> agitation, voodoo incantations, payload size... No matter what,
>> everything was dirty and covered with felt-ish fluff. The manual even
>> referred to this as a known "feature" of this type of machine and called
>> it something like "nubbing" or "bobbling" or whatever, saying it may be
>> an initial problem with some fabrics and could be cut down by using their
>> speciall no-nubbiing, anti-bobbling zero-beading chaff-stopping
>> detergent. Very expensive special detergent, that is. The very expensive
>> special detergent was duly bought, and used. No improvement in the
>> bobble-chaffing nub beading at all, and the clothes were still stained,
>> dirty.. and covered in all this raised pile stuff.
>>
>> The machine was great at accelerating wear in its payload but lousy at
>> cleaning. She got her money back as the machine was argued not to be of
>> merchantable quality - i.e. it didn't (couldn't) perform its intended
>> task of being a washing machine.
>> This, apparently was America's Finest - at least as far as those of us in
>> the export slipstream are aware.
>>
>> This begs all sorts of questions..
>>
>> er.. Do you guys in the USA who have carpet cleaners that don't clean,
>> and washing machines that don't either... er, <ahem>... well. what I mean
>> is.... I hope that showers work O.K. at least.. :-)
>>
>> Maybe the domestic machines are different.
>>
>> Personally, I love USA engineering. I prefer over-robust materials - cast
>> iron, milled alluminum (!) bolted together with proper fasteners - to the
>> oriental approach, which is to work to incredibly fine tolerances but to
>> specify very thin cheese as the construction material. I love the
>> apparent non-obsolescence of the USA paradigm which implies that in a
>> post apocalyptic world we can all get by, fixing stuff with a hammer and
>> baling wire, making spares as needed with the help of the local
>> blacksnith. It's just got a better feeling that knowing you'll need a
>> dedicated computer with constanly updated firmware to make the most basic
>> adjustments to your hedgetrimmer, toaster, motorcycle, router and yes
>> indeed, _washing machine_... It's the sort of thing that drives us to
>> working with wood, isn't it?
>>
>> The rub comes when the tank-like build quality is not matched by
>> _functional_ quality, either through crap design (Whirlpool washing
>> machines, so it seems), lousy tolerances in manufacturing (AMC Harley
>> Davidson) or anally-retentive tolerance specifications (M16 carbines ??)
>>
>> When USA conservative engineering is combined with marketing honesty, you
>> guys turn out gear that rocks. It doesn't happen all the time, however,
>> and that needs a little consumer honesty to point out. Just 'cos
>> something is marked "Made in the USA" doesn't mean it's going to trump
>> the competition, regardless. Often it does, but there's no sense in
>> getting all fierce and patriotic to try and flog a dead horse - at any
>> price.When it works, it works. SnapOn tools, etc.. The process is not
>> automatic, though. Badging a thing "American" does not confer quality.
>> Neither does "Made in Japan." It can often be an indicator that something
>> has a high probability of being superior, but it's only a probability
>> marker. The quality comes from something else, but hey, it feels good to
>> support the home team, and there's nothing wrong with that - just let's
>> not get confused about the issues.
>>
>>
> Back to the 120Vac problem here, American washing machines run off 120Vac
> so there's not enough juice to put a heater in, they run off domestic hot
> water which of course is not always hot because the dishwasher empties out
> the hot tank each time. We have the fabulously expensive Maytag Neptune,
> 12 months of use and it stank like a septic tank, as did the clothes. This
> is due to the fact it fills with luke warm water to wash, no boil cycle
> here or even over 60C to kill the goop living in the drum. Of course top
> loaders are king here because they don't have that problem. The Neptune is
> a front loader, I really can't stand 1950's top loader technology (do they
> have mangles still?). Solution was to not close the door when not in use,
> bit inconvenient but simple enough. Showers rock over here, or at least
> they did until the enviroidiots put a flow regulator in them, they are
> usually mains pressure hot tank fed, no chance of a piddling UK electric
> shower, the 8Kw heater would black out our local town.

There are many front loaders in the U.S, with built in water heaters now. I
own one made by Whirlpool for Sears. The Maytag Neptune problem had nothing
to do with water temperature. They included a light that lit up when you
left the door open so everyone closed the door. Try that on most machines
and it will start smelling from mildew. The fix was a free upgrade to a
ventilated door and mildew resistant tub. My parent's upgraded Neptune is
10 years old and smells great inside.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 10:26 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Archon wrote:

>>
>>
> Back to the 120Vac problem here, American washing machines run off
> 120Vac so there's not enough juice to put a heater in,

As has been pointed out, 120VAC has enough juice to heat water in a
machine to wash laundry or dishes.

If a child (or adult) contacts a live conductor, 240VAC will be a worse
problem than 120. American households can supply appliances with 240V
using conductors that are only 120VAC from ground.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 3:19 am
From: max

In article <6niNk.95011$Dw1.5059@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
Archon <Chipbee40_SpamNo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Save money-- buy a Hoover or a Bissel or a Snorch.
> >
> > .max
> >
> Horseshit yerself,
>
> If it wasn't for Dyson we would still be getting ripped off for hundreds
> of dollars of bags and filters a year and putting up with poorly
> designed crap that blows most of the dust back into the air along with
> the mould and crap that grows inside the non replaceable filter paths
> inside. Look how much effort the American vacuum manufacturers put into
> killing the cyclone vacuum market in America only to have their market
> share destroyed once people found out how good they are and how long
> they last.

that's nice, and it's not particularly relevant.

A machine of similar design and identical, or better, performance, can
be had for a great deal less money.

.max

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:23 am
From: "Steve Barker DLT"

I kinda wondered about that statement myself. I use 2 bags a year.
hmmmmm.... That's a dollar i guess.

"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:DuadnYwuKIawEZvUnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
>
> Hundreds of dollars on bags per year? Do you vacuum 24 hours a day?
>

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:03 am
From: "BigWallop"

<tnom@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:grrcg4p5jfiutroo1l3vomcelregqku27q@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >Hear Hear !!!
> >
> >As the man from Hoover told me, "All Vacuum Cleaners Suck".
>
> He was wrong. Vacuum cleaners don't suck. They can only
> reduce the atmospheric pressure.
>

Nah. They suck. :-)

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 26 2008 9:08 pm
From: Jeff

Marsha wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
> If you wait until Obama gets elected, anyone will be able to collect for
> any reason in any state for an unlimited amount of time.

QUIZ

1) Which presidential candidate has said (during the debate) that:

"We've been living beyond our means and we're going to have to make some
adjustments."

2) Both tax plans will raise the deficit. Whose tax plan is half the
cost to the deficit of the other?

Hint, it's not the candidate that you'll be voting for.

Trickle Down, AKA Voodoo Economics, always has had the same sad
result. In case you haven't noticed shoppers, 60% + of the economy, are
in retreat.

Jobs have been lost each and every month this year. Pumping money into
big business will not create jobs because there are no buyers. The only
thing that will happen is the same thing that is happening with the 250
Billion that has been pumped into banking. It will just sit there.

Now, you can buy into whatever wedge issues you want. But if you
really believe that even wealthy people are better off under a 36% max
rate with George W Bush than they were under Clinton's 39% then you may
have missed that the DJIA and S&P are now lower than when George W Bush
entered office. Those figures are red herrings anyways as no one pays
those top rates anyways after you figure in all the deductions the
wealthy are "entitled" to.

The trouble with republicans is that all they have is fear and the
only solution they have is tax cuts for the wealthy. Both those cards
have been played plenty the last 8 years and not even the Republican
Standard Bearer claims they've worked.

Just something for you not to think about, you can get back to your
wedge issues now.

Jeff

>
> Marsha/Ohio
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:44 pm
From: JonL

Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>
> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>
> Thanks for any info.

My first guess would be Calif., esp- the SF area. A while back 2
counties in Northern Cal were even giving homeless guys about $350 per
mo.(some were caught double-dipping)

In most cities/states a healthy male with no dependents will get very
little, plus you may have to forfeit any assets, such as a car. Also,
you may be required to work p/t in city parks and document your
job-hunting on your off days. Not a good retirement plan.

Better to try hitting the jackpot with a lawsuit. Trucking companies
have good insurance. Stand on a highway overpass, when you see a truck
barreling towards you in the left lane, jump!

hth

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 11:00 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <490698A4.1060302@Mayday.com>, JonL wrote:
>Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>> What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>
>My first guess would be Calif., esp- the SF area. A while back 2
>counties in Northern Cal were even giving homeless guys about $350 per
>mo.(some were caught double-dipping)
>
>In most cities/states a healthy male with no dependents will get very
>little, plus you may have to forfeit any assets, such as a car. Also,
>you may be required to work p/t in city parks and document your
>job-hunting on your off days. Not a good retirement plan.
>
>Better to try hitting the jackpot with a lawsuit. Trucking companies
>have good insurance. Stand on a highway overpass, when you see a truck
>barreling towards you in the left lane, jump!

I favor "tort reform" since I am an American paying big motor vehicle
insurance bills!

I blame the Democrats for "breaking things in this area" and I also
blame the Republicans for not fixing thingsd when they had ability to do
so!

If you want your insurance bills to decrease, I say vote against lawyers
not only for President but also for both houses of Congress!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:44 am
From: Al Bundy

It sounds like you may be singing the loser's anthem before the game
even starts. Perhaps more facts would allow people to offer more
helpful ideas. Are you disabled, lazy, alien or whatever? Each
situation could point to different answers. Of course, we know you are
asking for a friend.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ot: Democrat: Obama's grandma confirms Kenyan birth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8e80385d4cd9e3d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:13 pm
From: "NotMe"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

: >>> Right. When Obama was Hillary Clinton's opponent in the primaries,
: >>> Clinton supporter Philip J. Berg filed suit for Obama to prove his
: >>> citizenship. His only evidence to the contrary was a rumor that an
: >>> unknown Obama relative who may no longer have been living had said he
: >>> was born in Kenya. Obama filed to have the suit dismissed. Berg
calls
: >>> that an admission that he's not a U.S. citizen.
: >>>
: >>> To answer speculation, Obama posted a scan of his birth certificate.
: >>> Some bloggers pointed to artifacts as proof it was a forgery. So
: >>> factcheck.org scanned a genuine birth certificate and found that the
: >>> scan had the same artifacts.
: >>>
: >>> Then factcheck.org found an announcement of Obama's birth in the
August
: >>> 13, 1961 edition of the /Honolulu Advertiser./
: >>>
: >>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
: >>
: >> His mother is an American. So he is an American citizen, no matter
where
: >> he was born anyway.
: >>
: >> I am constantly amazed about the lies the wackos make up.
: >>
: >>
: >
: > Those who doubt his citizenship say one parent has to have resided in
the
: > United States a certain number of years, including five years after
: > turning fourteen. They say his mother didn't qualify because she hadn't
: > turned 19.
: >
: > The proof that Obama was born in Hawaii makes it moot in this case, but
: > I'm curious about the law. Suppose two college students who have been
: > Americans all their lives get married. They are over the border in
: > Canada, perhaps viewing Niagara Falls, when their baby is unexpectedly
: > born. If neither parent has turned nineteen, is the baby not an
American
: > citizen?
:
: there are those who contend that a "natural born citizen" is only one born
: on u.s. soil, as in an actual u.s. state only. that would disqualify
: mccain since he was born in panama or something like that. the there's
me
: who insists that the natural born part means a vaginal birth, not a
: caesarian. :-o (haha)

You left out anal birth which is often used in reference to political folk.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 9:11 pm
From: "NotMe"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j7qNk.739$Jv2.108@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
:
: "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
: news:ge3jun$fv$2@registered.motzarella.org...
: >
: > "E Z Peaces"
: > | >>> | >> Right. When Obama was Hillary Clinton's opponent in the
: > primaries,
: > | >>> Clinton
: > | >>> | >> supporter Philip J. Berg filed suit for Obama to prove his
: > | >>> citizenship. His
: > | >>> | >> only evidence to the contrary was a rumor that an unknown
Obama
: > | >>> relative who
: > | >>> | >> may no longer have been living had said he was born in Kenya.
: > Obama
: > | >>> filed to
: > | >>> | >> have the suit dismissed. Berg calls that an admission that
: > he's
: > not
: > | >>> a U.S.
: > | >>> | >> citizen.
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> To answer speculation, Obama posted a scan of his birth
: > certificate.
: > | >>> Some
: > | >>> | >> bloggers pointed to artifacts as proof it was a forgery. So
: > | >>> factcheck.org
: > | >>> | >> scanned a genuine birth certificate and found that the scan
had
: > the
: > | >>> same
: > | >>> | >> artifacts.
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> Then factcheck.org found an announcement of Obama's birth in
: > the
: > | >>> August 13,
: > | >>> | >> 1961 edition of the /Honolulu Advertiser./
: > | >>> | >>
: > | >>> | >> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | > His mother is an American. So he is an American citizen, no
: > matter
: > | >>> where he was
: > | >>> | > born anyway.
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | > I am constantly amazed about the lies the wackos make up.
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> | >
: > | >>> |
: > | >>> | Those who doubt his citizenship say one parent has to have
resided
: > in
: > | >>> | the United States a certain number of years, including five
years
: > after
: > | >>> | turning fourteen. They say his mother didn't qualify because
she
: > | >>> hadn't
: > | >>> | turned 19.
: > | >>> |
: > | >>> | The proof that Obama was born in Hawaii makes it moot in this
: > case,
: > but
: > | >>> | I'm curious about the law. Suppose two college students who
have
: > been
: > | >>> | Americans all their lives get married. They are over the border
: > in
: > | >>> | Canada, perhaps viewing Niagara Falls, when their baby is
: > unexpectedly
: > | >>> | born. If neither parent has turned nineteen, is the baby not an
: > | >>> | American citizen?
: > | >>>
: > | >>>
: > | >>> The baby is an American citizen what the baby can't be is POTUS
when
: > he
: > | >>> grows up.
: > | >> Yeah, that's it. It seems like a strange distinction. I wonder if
: > the
: > | >> founding fathers wrote to it to exclude a particular politician.
: > | >
: > | > I wonder if was just intended to exclude naturalized American
: > citizens.
: > | > Surprising that a case hasn't made it's way to the courts to
determine
: > what
: > | > the original "intent" of the language was.
: > | >
: > | >
: > | Apparently John Jay and George Washington decided certain high offices
: > | should be limited to natural citizens as a way of keeping power within
: > | their group. (A lot of influential Americans in those days were not
: > | natives.) However, the Constitution left it to Congress to define the
: > | distinction between natural and naturalized citizens.
: > |
: > | John McCain's parents were citizens, but he was not a citizen
according
: > | to the law when he was born. George Romney's parents were citizens,
but
: > | he did not come to America until he was 32. I don't know what the law
: > | said about his citizenship when he ran for Vice President in 1968.
: >
: > The Canal Zone is considered US property as is (I'm out on a limb here)
: > any
: > US base in the world for the purposed of being a natural born citizen of
: > the
: > USA wrt kids of service personal.
:
: but has it ever been deemed so by the courts? there are those who would
: insist that "natural born" means born within the borders of a u.s. state.

Matters not: There are previous presidents that were born in territories
and if I'm not mistaken possessions as well.

Regardless the US State Department has accepted both Obama and McCain's BC
as 'born in the USA" which in a legal sense make the question moot.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 27 2008 11:30 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <ge648a$rp$2@registered.motzarella.org>, NotMe wrote in part:

>You left out anal birth which is often used in reference to political folk.

How many people are born through their mothers' bungholes? I thought
that nature intended mammal mothers to bear their babies through their
vaginas! At least among mammals that are more evolved from birds than a
duck-billed platypus is!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the lowest cell phone cost?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64ff8aa2b5f47ee2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 1:35 am
From: "GP"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:jpOdnaoeEppb_5nUnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Most of our family and friends use Verizon so in-network calling is free.

So does the whole family come together during Christmas
to decide what provider to use?

And what if some family members choses a different
provider - does everyone else boycott him - no calls
till he returns to the fold?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wanted! People That Love To Get Free Products.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dc7ee4b3a7ca72fa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 4:27 am
From: "eforce.ws"

We need people that want to receive free electronics,
free groceries, free jewelry, free software, free flight
vouchers, free vouchers for 4 star hotels, and more.
If interested, send an email. All replies personally
answered with complete info.

Take the free tour to get all the details.
http://mcfree.nocashever.com

For further details subscribe below to my free report.
http://www.trafficwave.net/lcp/eforce/ffmcfree

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Isn't This A Screw Job?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9edc171a4be3330?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 6:55 am
From: curly'q

"The available balance and available credit information displayed
through 'W**** F**** Online' is updated immediately to reflect your
transaction. However, it will take 2-3 business days to fully process
this transaction and update the outstanding credit balance and history."

OK, so they can withdraw money instantly from an interest bearing
account, but it takes 2-3 days (in 2008?) to credit a loan account.

Something smells.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:17 am
From: Scritch

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in news:68bba63c-348a-4da5-
a10c-26d31e952c5b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> farther?
>
> I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT

It's time to start home brewing again. It might not cost less per bottle,
but it'll keep me from drinking more.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:59 am
From: Ignoramus20172

On 2008-10-28, Scritch <info@mymainstreet.info> wrote:
> It's time to start home brewing again. It might not cost less per bottle,
> but it'll keep me from drinking more.

How brewing at home will keep you from drinking more?

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:17 am
From: Charlie Self

On Oct 25, 11:57 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
> back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
> farther?
>
> I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
> how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.
>

We started with new windows and siding. That should cut fuel
consumption at least a bit.

We decided to keep both vehicles at least two more years, so spent
about $1,300 on the car for repairs and maintenance. My old truck
needed an oil change. I also need to get a new lock system on the
camper cap. Gaffer's tape holding the cap gate shut is getting to be a
PITA.

I upgraded my computer monitor, but kept the old (5-1/2 years, give or
take 3GB P4, 3GB RAM Dell) computer. That's changed a lot since it
showed up at the door, but my eyeballs were hurting from messing with
the 19" CRT, so I got a Dell Viewsonic 2408 WFP. What a revelation!

Instead of replacing the electric furnace in the shop, I'm thinking
very seriously of installing a wood stove.

We'll probably let the TV satellite go. That means we'll probably do
without TV, because the set is very old, cost what I consider a max
for a TV set ($297), and I am not going to pay for a conversion box to
bring in the local channel news. We watch little else, so that's not a
real loss. $750 for a TV set that we then pay $55 and rising per month
to keep active is silly when probably three days out of the week it
isn't turned on at all, and on most other days, it gets to work its
way through an hour of news programs. I can't find the time to sit in
front of the thing to be insulted by the intellegence level of
commercials (all of 'em, not just the political ads).

Buy fewer books. This 'un hurts, but we'd have to do that anyway, or
move to a bigger house.

I bought a new DSLR a few weeks ago. That's probably the last major
camera purchase for a year or so, even though it is tax deductible.
I'm not interested in working hard enough to need too many deductions,
anyway. Semi-retirement.

We'll plant a bigger vegetable garden, and my wife will can more. Of
course, most years we end up giving the kids half of what gets canned,
but Frances is farm raised, so gets itchy if she can't raise and can
and freeze, the same way I get itchy if I can't shoot photos and
write. Arthritis is starting to limit any realistic woodworking
chances these days. I've got enough local wood stored, mostly cherry
and oak, to last me at least two more years, but I'd sure love some
maple and birch and...

Cut the grass every other time it needs it...big damned sacrifice,
huh? I hate cutting grass. In fact, most of this year we paid a young
guy to come do it. He can whip the two acres out (minus shop, storage,
house, gardens) in about 1/3 the time it takes my wife and I.

The house is paid for. The cars are paid for. A few bucks in the bank.
A few bucks coming in each month that probably won't rise or fall.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 8:23 am
From: Charlie Self

And think of what you save on snacks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Penis Enlargement Exercises
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee0412f1507f31d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:27 am
From: ejn14ls6

The First Penis Enlargement Exercise Program under Clinical Trial
Pennis Health. Find out how to get bigger
300+ videos and photos, 35 unique exercises, 24 hour support, and a 6
month guarantee

__________________________________

http://usinfo.info/penis-enlargement-exercises

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 28 2008 7:55 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

How to get your money back on most any product that fails just after
its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:

Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:

Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers

SONY microcassette tape-recorders

any compact flourescent light bulb

digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc

SIMPLY:

1. Buy the SAME product at any store.

2. Take advantage of the store's return policy! Wait two weeks; then
put the failed product in the new product's packaging and return it to
the store with the new product's sales receipt. Get your money back!

The more people who do this- the sooner these sloppy manufacturers
will make a quality product and give a reasonable warranty! That even
goes for the cheap Chinese items at the Dollar Store.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, October 28, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest