Frugal Living: Jan 17, 2008

Thursday, January 17, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Resurgence of telemarketers and telephishers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/132159bd102f1747?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:13 pm
From: "Chloe"

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dhnvo39oag49ktptc19kl193a8g407ans2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>>doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>>often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>>with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>>threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>>days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>>$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>>$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>>practices.
>
> George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
> the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
> numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
> information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
> they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
> seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
> even legit call-back number.
>
> When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
> the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
> anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
> thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.
>
> With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
> what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
> the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
> system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.

I don't understand why you're even talking to them long enough to know
they're trying to get a credit card number. I just say "not
interested"--because I'm such a courteous person, dontcha know, and hang up.

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:17 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

George Grapman wrote:
> phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them a
> favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like me
> with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
> victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
> funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
> their day.

I feel really sorry for people like you who think that it is okay to
abuse innocent people.

Maybe they don't *know* what company they are telemarketing for. Maybe
they aren't allowed to say and have to refer people to a supervisor.

> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them with
> small claims court.

Most of them are out of state, but suing the company is a more effective
way of shutting them down than abusing the employees, which is
equivalent to abusing a waitress because the cook messed up your order.
The only difference is that those people are too cowardly to abuse
someone to their face when the problem is not their fault.

> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
> practices.

And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:34 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them
>> a favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like
>> me with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
>> victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
>> funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
>> their day.
>
> I feel really sorry for people like you who think that it is okay to
> abuse innocent people.

Two times in my life I worked in offices that were scams and whose
only purpose was to get a quick payment from a person. I figured out
what was going on very quickly ,quit and notified the proper authorities.
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>> doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>> often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>
> Maybe they don't *know* what company they are telemarketing for. Maybe
> they aren't allowed to say and have to refer people to a supervisor.
>

Some of my early jobs were very low level ,albeit honest,
telemarketing jobs. I never has one where I was told not to give the
name of the company,the address or phone number. One has to be extremely
clueless not to question a policy that prohibits revealing those basic
facts especially when they are asking for a credit card.
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>> with small claims court.
>
> Most of them are out of state, but suing the company is a more effective
> way of shutting them down than abusing the employees, which is
> equivalent to abusing a waitress because the cook messed up your order.
> The only difference is that those people are too cowardly to abuse
> someone to their face when the problem is not their fault.
>
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>> practices.
>
> And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
> telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 7:21 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> sarge137 wrote:
>> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
>> with them.
>
> Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?

Would you do the same thing to a mugger or a burglar?

> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
> they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real story.

Sure, the guy who pulls a knife on you and demands your money is so
desperate that they have to do something they hate to make ends meet.
This doesn't make it right or legal. This doesn't mean this guy should
be treated the same as people who do not steal.

Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
citizens.

Anthony

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:18 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:11:25 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:

>The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
>they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
>story.

No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.

The problem with these calls is not only that they are illegal from
the DNC standpoint, but more importantly, they are an attempt to gain
information for illegal purposes and to the detriment of the person
being called. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when a
"company" is engaged in such tactics. The people doing the calling
are not desparate unskilled workers, but scum of the earth types with
no sense of morals.

Many years ago, when I lived in Vermont and between jobs, the state
employment office was sending people to interviews with a company that
had sloppy ethics. Within fifteen minutes, out of a crowd of about
thirty people, the "interviewer" had singled out five of us who had
raised eyebrows or questions, told us we weren't right for the work,
and asked us to leave.

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:20 pm
From: George Grapman

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
>> sarge137 wrote:
>>> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
>>> with them.
>>
>> Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?
>
> Would you do the same thing to a mugger or a burglar?
>
>> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many
>> times they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the
>> real story.
>
> Sure, the guy who pulls a knife on you and demands your money is so
> desperate that they have to do something they hate to make ends meet.
> This doesn't make it right or legal. This doesn't mean this guy should
> be treated the same as people who do not steal.
>
> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
> citizens.
>
> Anthony
Exactly. When, call after call, you are told that the person you
called is on the Do Not Call law and asks why you are breaking that law
you have to know that you are breaking the law.
When you are asking for peoples credit card information and are told
not to give out any details about your location or employer you have to
know something is wrong.
As I noted most of my jobs have been in sales and I could not imagine
refusing to give out such information.

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:54 pm
From: George Grapman

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:11:25 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
> reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>
>> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
>> they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
>> story.
>
> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.
>
> The problem with these calls is not only that they are illegal from
> the DNC standpoint, but more importantly, they are an attempt to gain
> information for illegal purposes and to the detriment of the person
> being called. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when a
> "company" is engaged in such tactics. The people doing the calling
> are not desparate unskilled workers, but scum of the earth types with
> no sense of morals.
>
> Many years ago, when I lived in Vermont and between jobs, the state
> employment office was sending people to interviews with a company that
> had sloppy ethics. Within fifteen minutes, out of a crowd of about
> thirty people, the "interviewer" had singled out five of us who had
> raised eyebrows or questions, told us we weren't right for the work,
> and asked us to leave.
>

At a really desperate point I had a job interview with a collection
agency. The office was real boiler room. While waiting for the interview
I heard things like. "Mr. Jones, have you ever spent time in jail?" and
"Mrs. Smith, if you do not make a payment by Friday we will see that you
are fired from your job". I walked out.
Another time I got a job with a company that said they were selling
ads in the programs of local sports teams.I asked to see some copies to
get an idea and was only given a mock up of a page with prices. I was
told the printer would be sending copies "soon". I was told to offer a
25 percent discount if they paid a courier the same day. The final clue
was when someones phone rang and the manager yelled "We never,ever
answer the phones on the sales desks".
Out the door 15 minutes after I entered.
In the first instance a complaint to the state agency regulating
collection agencies was never answered. In the second case the fraud
unit of the District Attorney returned my call and asked enough things
to indicate they were already looking into this. A few weeks later
there was a story about the owner facing multiple fraud charges.

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:01 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
> citizens.

The point is, the person who is calling you does not know that they are
breaking the law, and they are not knowingly breaking it.

When my oldest son had a paper route and started messing up big-time,
his customers started calling me and cursing a blue streak in *my* ear.
I tried to get them to call the newspaper and complain or to wait
until he got home and curse a blue streak in *his* ear, and none of them
would do that.

It wasn't my fault that he wasn't delivering papers properly. In fact,
I had tried to tell him that he needed to get on the ball again and he
ignored me. Their yelling at me did not get their newspaper delivered
on time, as (A) it was not my responsibility to get it delivered on
time, and (B) the person whose responsibility it was was not listening
to me.

It was not right, fair, or proper for those customers to be abusing me
for something that was not my fault. Neither is it right, proper, or
fair for you to abuse the telemarketer who calls you for something that
is not their fault.

And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more
power to you. Not everybody has those options.

No, I am not a telemarketer, but I have known a few and understand their
plight.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:04 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.

There are currently a bunch of jobs offered to people these days to be
payment or package processors. These innocent people are told that they
receive payments or packages as a central receiving source and then
forward them on to the appropriate person.

Then the police knock on their doors and arrest them for defrauding
people by credit card or taking money in an advance-fee type of scam.

They may be part of the problem, and legally they are accountable, but
sometimes they are ignorant and have been scammed just as much as the
people who had their money stolen.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:53 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>
>> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
>> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
>> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
>> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
>> citizens.
>
> The point is, the person who is calling you does not know that they are
> breaking the law, and they are not knowingly breaking it.

How many times does someone have to be told "I am on the do not call
list, you are violating the law" before they get a clue?
>
> When my oldest son had a paper route and started messing up big-time,
> his customers started calling me and cursing a blue streak in *my* ear.
> I tried to get them to call the newspaper and complain or to wait until
> he got home and curse a blue streak in *his* ear, and none of them would
> do that.
>
> It wasn't my fault that he wasn't delivering papers properly. In fact,
> I had tried to tell him that he needed to get on the ball again and he
> ignored me. Their yelling at me did not get their newspaper delivered
> on time, as (A) it was not my responsibility to get it delivered on
> time, and (B) the person whose responsibility it was was not listening
> to me.
>
> It was not right, fair, or proper for those customers to be abusing me
> for something that was not my fault. Neither is it right, proper, or
> fair for you to abuse the telemarketer who calls you for something that
> is not their fault.
>
> And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more
> power to you. Not everybody has those options.
>
> No, I am not a telemarketer, but I have known a few and understand their
> plight.
>

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:56 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
>> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
>> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.
>
> There are currently a bunch of jobs offered to people these days to be
> payment or package processors. These innocent people are told that they
> receive payments or packages as a central receiving source and then
> forward them on to the appropriate person.
>
> Then the police knock on their doors and arrest them for defrauding
> people by credit card or taking money in an advance-fee type of scam.
>
> They may be part of the problem, and legally they are accountable, but
> sometimes they are ignorant and have been scammed just as much as the
> people who had their money stolen.
>
Another one is a variation on the Nigerian scam. An overseas company
doing business in the US makes up some reason for needing a dollar based
US bank account and says they can not get one on their own. Simply
accept the deposits and they will give you a generous commission. Please
reply with your name, address, account number and routing information.

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 10:13 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

> And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
> telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.

Come back when you have a workable solution.

Hint: A solution that falls apart if 500 million points of failure don't all
perform flawlessly is an idealist's dream, not a workable solution. As is
well evidenced in the human race's continued failure to exterminate these
telemarketing scourge from the planet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generic Lipitor any time soon?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aa4400046e779ff1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:15 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <9sfvo3t2nckur89ee5o4sm223chk6b12v5@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> >The European and U.S. patents are due to expire in 2011. The Canadian patent
> >has expired (in 2007) and branded generic versions of atorvastatin (generic
> >name for Lipitor) can be purchased and shipped through Canadian pharmacies.
> >These pharmacies can be located on the internet along with their toll-free
> >telephone numbers to discuss cost and details of the transactions.
>
> OK will check it out thanks!
>
> >Cost savings of the branded generic is currently about 50% compared to the
> >brand name product through one of these Canadian vendors.
>
> OK...still not as cheap as simvastatin but heck of a
> lot cheaper than Lipitor brand!
>
> I prefer Lipitor because I can take it first thing in
> the morning as its half life is longer than
> simvastatin...... but am unemployed now and can get
> simvastatin CHEAP! But have to take simvastatin in
> evening as its half life isn't as long.
>
> >Ranbaxy Laboratories (headquartered in India) will apparently market the
> >first branded generic version of atorvastatin in the U.S. and will have
> >exclusivity for 180 days.
>
> Ahh..... Ranbaxy is who makes my cheap simvastatin!!
>
> For anyone who is in same boat.... unemployed and
> without health insurance to cover drug costs.... check
> into Costco as a source of simvastatin form Ranbuxy. I
> got 180 day supply simvastatin form Costco for abt $20
> total!!!!!

What about Wal-Mart? I believe they offer Simvastatin for four bucks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla or Mazda, which is best????
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3262f8c1d706d9af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:16 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <3espo3t2b7s4l058ka7aomoil1paohbo19@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Maintenance software? Any calendar program can do that
>
> yes.... but some thing are better done on a mileage
> basis rather than a calendar basis.
>
> Would you rotate your tires every 6 months if that car
> had only been driven 2000 miles? See what I mean?

No, I would do it once a year at that rate. Still easy enough to put on
a calendar.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: supply bape shoes adidas shoes gucci shoes prada shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c3887c6fe5815f49?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:19 pm
From: cindy

(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale cheap nike paypal
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap air force ones from china
(www.shoes-res.com )WHOLESALE CHEAP PAYPAL SHOES
(www.shoes-res.com )boys sneaker outlet
(www.shoes-res.com )Nike Men's Dunk High customs
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap sneakers from china
(www.shoes-res.com )CHEAP JORDANS
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale jordans from china
(www.shoes-res.com )jordan's wholesalers
(www.shoes-res.com )Burberry Heel Shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )customs air force ones and air jordans
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap lacoste shirts
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap jordans for kids
(www.shoes-res.com )jordan xvi made in china
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale pay credit card g unit hoodies
(www.shoes-res.com )custom kids jordans
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale sneaker pricelist
(www.shoes-res.com )CHEAP COOGI CLOTHING
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap prada america hightop
(www.shoes-res.com )nike gucci paypal
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap adicolors
(www.shoes-res.com )Jordan retro III size 7 China
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale Custom Air Force One
(www.shoes-res.com )light up af1,air forces,air force ones for
cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )bulk buying air max trainers
(www.shoes-res.com ) shoes wholesalers in china
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap nike sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com ) DISCOUNT nike SNEAKERS,Tennis
Sneakers,gucci Sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )Prada Sneakers,Shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) Jordan's + Wholesale
(www.shoes-res.com ) jordan wholesale manufacturers
(www.shoes-res.com ) nike customes
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap tiffany necklace
(www.shoes-res.com ) gucci shoes shop
(www.shoes-res.com ) Wholesale Distributor Authentic Nike
Shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap wholesale jordans nike
(www.shoes-res.com ) dsquared manufacturers,dsquared womens
shoes,dsquared2
(www.shoes-res.com )jeans,dsquared2 shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) ed hardy caps,ed hardy caps cheap,ed
hardy for cheap,ed hardy
(www.shoes-res.com ) ny hats for cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )addidas wholesalers distributor
(www.shoes-res.com )bulk air force ones for sale
(www.shoes-res.com ) Burberry Handbags made in China
(www.shoes-res.com ) Buy wholesale from china GUCCI
(www.shoes-res.com ) buy jordans made in china
(www.shoes-res.com ) buy nike shoes at wholesale price
(www.shoes-res.com )buy puma wholesale
(www.shoes-res.com ) nike air jordan dub zero jdb 13
(www.shoes-res.com )adidas goodyear factory oem
(www.shoes-res.com )Air Jordan Polo
(www.shoes-res.com ) Replica Shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) nike wholesale trainers
(www.shoes-res.com ) sunglasses armani
(www.shoes-res.com ) nike wholesale trainers
(www.shoes-res.com )Wholesale World Cup Air Max 95
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap trainers from china
(www.shoes-res.com ) mens prada shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap nike adidas puma Jordan shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) wholesale cheap nike jordan sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com ) Wholesale Cheap Nike Air Force Ones
(www.shoes-res.com )made in china nike
jordan dmp for sale (www.shoes-res.com )
china nike supplier (www.shoes-res.com )
cheap china wholesale (www.shoes-res.com )
children's nike dunk sb shoes for sale (www.shoes-res.com )
(www.shoes-res.com ) air max 95 trainers
(www.shoes-res.com ) china wholesale prada sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )gucci sneakers wholesale
(www.shoes-res.com ) ed hardy for men
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap retro jordans IN CHINA
(www.shoes-res.com ) customize air force one sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com ) replca shoes china
(www.shoes-res.com ) cheap gucci men sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )china wholesale cheap Gucci Prada Nike
Jordan
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale Fendi Shoes|China wholesale
cheap discount custom
wholesale Artful Dodger|wholesale artful dodger shirts|(www.shoes-
res.com )
(www.shoes-res.com ) China wholesale cheap discount custom
Jordan nike prada gucci
(www.shoes-res.com )nike shoes air jordan gucci prada sneakers
china
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale Sell Air force one JORDAN NIKE
SHOES air force one
Cheap Air Jordan Retro 7 (www.shoes-res.com )
discount Air Jordan Retro 5 (www.shoes-res.com )
custom Air Jordan Retro Shoes (www.shoes-res.com )
Air Jordan Retro 4 china (www.shoes-res.com )
customized Air Jordan Retro 11 (www.shoes-res.com )
Air Jordan Retro V Distributor (www.shoes-res.com )
Air Jordan Retro 1 Tennis (www.shoes-res.com )
jordans sneakers by the bulk (www.shoes-res.com )
(www.shoes-res.com )CUSTOM SNEAKER MANUFACTURER
(www.shoes-res.com )Nike Outlet Shop
(www.shoes-res.com )lady clear jordans in china
china NIKE wholesale list in www.shoes-res.com
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale shirts lacoste
(www.shoes-res.com ) ed Hardy replica jeans
(www.shoes-res.com ) Cheap Nike Shox
(www.shoes-res.com )customized jordans and air forces
(www.shoes-res.com )order nike sb dunks for cheap online
cheap nike shox monster warehouse in www.shoes-res.com
(www.shoes-res.com )gucci shoes for cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )china jordans gucci
(www.shoes-res.com ) fendi factory oulet
(www.shoes-res.com ) gucci shoes outlet,gucci sneaker at
wholesale price by cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )discount nike shox
(www.shoes-res.com ) wholesale jordan airforce1 lrg
(www.shoes-res.com )buy cheap gucci
(www.shoes-res.com ) pumas shoes from china
(www.shoes-res.com )ed hardy cap bapesta bbc
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap custom shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )adidas nike cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )jordans wholesale
(www.shoes-res.com )nike basketball shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )Discount Nikes,cheap Discount jordan
(www.shoes-res.com ) jordan Sneakers Cheap From Nike Factory
(www.shoes-res.com )mens replica ice cream trainers
(www.shoes-res.com )Nike cheap shoes, cheap nike shoes in
cheap price
(www.shoes-res.com )customize lacoste trainers wholesale from
china
(www.shoes-res.com ) customized bape shoes
(www.shoes-res.com ) dsquared2 discount shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )buy nike trainers tennis
(www.shoes-res.com ) shop for shoes in china
(www.shoes-res.com )Heap shoes china
(www.shoes-res.com )Nike Air Forces Custom Shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap jordan sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )dunks necklace,discount nikes
(www.shoes-res.com )Wholesale Cheap Nike Air Force Ones
(www.shoes-res.com )china wholesale cheap discount nike jordan
sneakers gucci prada
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale on women's jordans
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap Coogi clothing
(www.shoes-res.com )air max90 boots store locations
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap kids jordan sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale evisu,bape.LRG.hoodies hot on
sell
(www.shoes-res.com )Good quality nike shoes jeans hats
(www.shoes-res.com )coogi store in europe
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap bathing ape kids shoes
(www.shoes-res.com )custom timberland from china
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap ed hardy caps
(www.shoes-res.com )urban clothes shipped from china for cheap
(www.shoes-res.com )cheapest adidas
(www.shoes-res.com )cheapest coogi
(www.shoes-res.com )wholesale urban wear girbaud jeans
(www.shoes-res.com )Get Timberland Shoes at Super Cheap Prices
(www.shoes-res.com )Nike dunk high premium men's sneakers
(www.shoes-res.com )michael shoes made in china for sale
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap cheap girbauds
(www.shoes-res.com )Gino Green clothing on discount
(www.shoes-res.com )discount coogi
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap coogi hoodies
(www.shoes-res.com )cheap lady girbaud
(www.shoes-res.com) gucci shoes distributor
nike cheap discounts(www.shoes-res.com)
(www.shoes-res.com) sneaker gucci china paypal
ugg oulet(www.shoes-res.com)
(www.shoes-res.com) china usa warehouses nike adidas cheap
trainers
all colors of air max 97 for 75 on sale(www.shoes-res.com)
cheap girbauds(www.shoes-res.com)
wholesale southpole urban wear(www.shoes-res.com)
online outlet ck,prada,gucci men's shoes(www.shoes-res.com)
sneakers shipped from china(www.shoes-res.com)
wholesale nike foamposite(www.shoes-res.com)
cheap hip hop clothes china(www.shoes-res.com)
michael shoes made in china for sale(www.shoes-res.com)
women's jordans and nikes|sneakers ecko tennis wholesale shoes|china
wholesale clothin g-unit|cheap custom air force ones
website that sells UNK hoodies and clothes|buy custom jordan sneakers
from china|Cheap Custom Hot Nike|cheap custom sneakers
china girbaud wholesale|european imports gucci prada baby phat credit
card|jordan retro 4 laser big kids
Luxirie by lrg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:20 pm
From: "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"

On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Deportation would be cheaper than maintenance or amnesty for illegals.
>

Deportation needn't cost a penny. If each state would announce that
they will not prosecute crimes against illegals, then the illegals
would have no choice but to self-deport. Illegals have no rights.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Why I hate Geico ads
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c126ff8f6e76bda5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:46 pm
From: "Green Xenon [Radium]"

David Johnston wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:23:53 -0800 (PST), ultimauw@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>> There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
>>> able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
>>> there was no internet. That ad talks about some
>> OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
>> out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
>> possibly imagine happening to them,
>
> I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to see that too. Fortunately, I don't.

You be annoyed? I'd be so scared, I'd dissociate. I'd pass out and need
an ambulance.

Mental energy can hurt the physical body at times.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:08 pm
From: "Ut'n Ch'"

On Jan 17, 8:36 am, Boothbay <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 9:27 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 6:23 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 15, 10:26 am, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...@excite.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Fuck geico's piece of shit ads.
>
> > > > Here are examples of geico ads which I fucking hate because they are so
> > > > fucking stupid:
>
> > > > 1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSPXpc5N6Kg--thisaddepicts the 50s
> > > > or before when [obviously] there was no such thing as geico or their
> > > > stinkin car insurance
>
> > > > 2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-b0wQzQ-0--assholecelebrity
> > > > "mashed potatoes woohoo!" Howd ya like some mashed potatoes up your
> > > > stinky ass, you disheveled shithole?!
>
> > > > There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
> > > > able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
> > > > there was no internet. That ad talks about some
>
> > > OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
> > > out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
> > > possibly imagine happening to them, and all you can think about are
> > > the commercials. Me thinks you need to get your priorities straight.
>
> > > BTW: I thought the commercials were funny.
>
> > BTW: I am enjoying a big box of deserts loaded with DSNDSRBCNRBCs as
> > we speak.
>
> I never thought that I would be using my remote as often as I have. I
> thought the benefit would be more for changing channels...but mute
> seems to be taking over most of my movements on it. The old man's
> voice on Empire's flooring, the cockney of Geico and that so called
> fat idiot doing a 'gene kelly' dance movement in selling a car..anyone
> who can jump like that over a car without breaking one's neck is a
> miracle. It was so phoney.

"Gene Kelly"?????
He invented The Robot?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:09 pm
From: "Ut'n Ch'"

On Jan 17, 8:46 pm, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...@excite.com>
wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:23:53 -0800 (PST), ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >>> There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
> >>> able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
> >>> there was no internet. That ad talks about some
> >> OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
> >> out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
> >> possibly imagine happening to them,
>
> > I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to see that too. Fortunately, I don't.
>
> You be annoyed? I'd be so scared, I'd dissociate. I'd pass out and need
> an ambulance.
>
> Mental energy can hurt the physical body at times.

Body is the scar of the mind, Yoko.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is There A Phone Carrier That ONLY CHARGES for International Calls That
Actually Connect?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df47db4bbebcddae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 7:07 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Seni Seven wrote:
> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
> connects.
>
> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile service
> with a large coverage area geographically.

Where I live, the local cable company (Time Warner Austin, in Austin,
TX) has started offering an add-on for their phone service called
"International OnePrice". You pay $19.95/month more, and your first
3000 minutes per month of international calls (to a certain set of
countries) are included.

So I guess that technically counts, because they aren't charging you
for the call if it doesn't connect, and they aren't charging you for
the call even if it does connect (unless you go over 3000 minutes in
a month). I'm mainly mentioning it in case something like that is an
option.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boost Your Business with Quality Web & Design Services at Bargain
Prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9797020e9427d32a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 7:38 pm
From: "sindy.WOSG@gmail.com"

Web Outsourcing Services Group (WOSG) is a pioneering and China-based
service provider, committed to delivering quality web & design, SEO
and internet marketing services to clients around the world.

WOSG's strength lies in our skillful staff and lower rates in China.
We have over 60 strictly selected designers and programmers; many of
our designers come from China's top design and web companies, who
conduct design work for famous international brands like Sony, Nike,
Lenovo, L'Oreal etc. In addition, a dedicated Customer Service
Assistant will be assigned to each client as a single point of
contact. Our aim is to create cost effective, unique web sites that
give your business real web presence and adhere to the latest web &
accessibility standards.

The rates for our professional services start from as low as $9 per
hour. Quality services at bargain prices, Best value for money!

Please take a look at some of the services we provide for your
business:

Custom Website Design & Redesign
Graphic and Multimedia Design (Logo, Banner, Flash, etc)
Web Application Development
Search Engine Optimization & Internet Marketing
------and more

We have served many clients like you around the world. Although our
services are not the cheapest on the internet, our solutions are the
best balancing the quality and cost based on your requirements. We
sure maximize your Return of Investment, and we will happily fulfill
all your web design needs.

You can learn more about us by downloading our flyer in PDF format at:
http://www.WebOutsourcingServices.com/images/WOSG-Brochure-Sheet.pdf
You can also read our case study and browse our portfolio at
http://www.WebOutSourcingServices.com

Note：please don't reply this email since it was sent by system.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap NBA Jersey, NBA Sports Shoes, Adidas NBA Trainers, NBA City
Wholesale Factory www.globwholesale.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4154e232fd164e9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:27 pm
From: globwholesale

webisite:www.globwholesale.com
E-mail: globwholes...@yahoo.com.cn
MSN: globwholes...@hotmail.com

(www.globwholesale.com)
we wholesale nike shoes, jordan shoes, louis vuitton shoes, lacoste
shoes, evisu shoes, puma shoes, prada shoes, gucci shoes, max shoes,
af1 shoes, running shoes, adidas shoes, nab shoes, sports shoes, d&g
shoes, bape shoes, versace shoes, boss shoes, dior shoes, dsquared
shoes, burberry shoes, men's shoes, women's shoes, children shoes,
hogan shoes, fendi shoes, armani shoes, chanel shoes, coach shoes, at
www.globwholesale.com

wholesale cheap nike shoes, cheap jordan shoes, cheap louis vuitton
shoes, cheap lacoste shoes, cheap evisu shoes, cheap puma shoes,
cheap
prada shoes, cheap gucci shoes, cheap max shoes, cheap af1 shoes,
cheap running shoes, cheap adidas shoes, cheap nba shoes, cheap
sports shoes, cheap d&g shoes, cheap bape shoes, cheap versace shoes,
cheap boss shoes, cheap dior shoes, cheap dsquared shoes, cheap
burberry shoes, cheap men's shoes, cheap women's shoes, cheap
children
shoes, cheap hogan shoes, cheap fendi shoes, cheap armani shoes,
cheap
chanel shoes, cheap coach shoes, at www.globwholesale.com

(www.globwholesale.com)
cheap nike shoes wholesale, cheap jordan shoes wholesale, cheap louis
vuitton shoes wholesale, cheap lacoste shoes wholesale, cheap evisu
shoes wholesale, cheap puma shoes wholesale, cheap prada shoes, cheap
gucci shoes wholesale, cheap max shoes, cheap af1 shoes wholesale,
cheap running shoes wholesale, cheap adidas shoes wholesale, cheap
nba shoes, cheap sports shoes wholesale, cheap d&g shoes wholesale,
cheap bape shoes wholesale, cheap versace shoes wholesale, cheap boss
shoes wholesale, cheap dior shoes wholesale, cheap dsquared shoes
wholesale, cheap burberry shoes wholesale, cheap men's shoes
wholesale, cheap women's shoes wholesale, cheap children shoes
wholesale, cheap hogan shoes wholesale, cheap fendi shoes wholesale,
cheap armani shoes wholesale, cheap chanel shoes wholesale, cheap
coach shoes wholesale, at www.globwholesale.com

(www.globwholesale.com)
discount nike shoes wholesale,discount jordan shoes wholesale,
discount louis vuitton shoes wholesale,discount lacoste shoes
wholesale,discount evisu shoes wholesale,discount puma shoes
wholesale, discount prada shoes wholesale, discount gucci shoes
wholesale, discount max shoes wholesale, discount af1 shoes
wholesale,
discount running shoes wholesale, discount adidas shoes wholesale,
discount nab shoes wholesale, discount sports shoes wholesale,
discount d&g shoes wholesale, discount bape shoes wholesale, discount
versace shoes wholesale, discount boss shoes wholesale, discount dior
shoes wholesale, discount dsquared shoes wholesale, discount burberry
shoes wholesale, discount men's shoes wholesale, discount women's
shoes wholesale, discount children shoes wholesale, discount hogan
shoes wholesale, discount fendi shoes wholesale, discount armani
shoes
wholesale, discount chanel shoes wholesale, discount coach shoes
wholesale, at www.globwholesale.com

If with any question please feel free to contact us at:
www.globwholesale.com
E-mail: globwholes...@yahoo.com.cn
MSN: globwholes...@hotmail.com

we wholesale nike shoes, jordan shoes, louis vuitton shoes, lacoste
shoes, evisu shoes, puma shoes, prada shoes, gucci shoes, max shoes,
af1 shoes, running shoes, adidas shoes, nab shoes, sports shoes, d&g
shoes, bape shoes, versace shoes, boss shoes, dior shoes, dsquared
shoes, burberry shoes, men's shoes, women's shoes, children shoes,
hogan shoes, fendi shoes, armani shoes, chanel shoes, coach shoes, at
www.globwholesale.com

cheap nike shoes wholesale, cheap jordan shoes wholesale, cheap louis
vuitton shoes wholesale, cheap lacoste shoes wholesale, cheap evisu
shoes wholesale, cheap puma shoes wholesale, cheap prada shoes, cheap
gucci shoes wholesale, cheap max shoes, cheap af1 shoes wholesale,
cheap running shoes wholesale, cheap adidas shoes wholesale, cheap
nba shoes, cheap sports shoes wholesale, cheap d&g shoes wholesale,
cheap bape shoes wholesale, cheap versace shoes wholesale, cheap boss
shoes wholesale, cheap dior shoes wholesale, cheap dsquared shoes
wholesale, cheap burberry shoes wholesale, cheap men's shoes
wholesale, cheap women's shoes wholesale, cheap children shoes
wholesale, cheap hogan shoes wholesale, cheap fendi shoes wholesale,
cheap armani shoes wholesale, cheap chanel shoes wholesale, cheap
coach shoes wholesale, at www.globwholesale.com

discount nike shoes wholesale,discount jordan shoes wholesale,
discount louis vuitton shoes wholesale,discount lacoste shoes
wholesale,discount evisu shoes wholesale,discount puma shoes
wholesale, discount prada shoes wholesale, discount gucci shoes
wholesale, discount max shoes wholesale, discount af1 shoes
wholesale,
discount running shoes wholesale, discount adidas shoes wholesale,
discount nab shoes wholesale, discount sports shoes wholesale,
discount d&g shoes wholesale, discount bape shoes wholesale, discount
versace shoes wholesale, discount boss shoes wholesale, discount dior
shoes wholesale, discount dsquared shoes wholesale, discount burberry
shoes wholesale, discount men's shoes wholesale, discount women's
shoes wholesale, discount children shoes wholesale, discount hogan
shoes wholesale, discount fendi shoes wholesale, discount armani
shoes
wholesale, discount chanel shoes wholesale, discount coach shoes
wholesale, at www.globwholesale.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BEAUTY GUIDE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/180f2148d27c8c15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:37 pm
From: esther.her5@gmail.com

BEAUTY GUIDE
Complete lists of great Beauty and Health 'net links at:
Recipes and ideas for your own at-home facials
This is a sample of the fourth issue of Beauty Beat!
***********************************
http://www.freewebs.com/beautyguide/
***********************************

==============================================================================
TOPIC: non-toxic glassware/ dinnerware?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/35038ef875d8eac3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:11 pm
From: mindfulnessnow@gmail.com

Here in California we have something called proposition 65 which
requires that sellers warn about selling toxic dishware, etc. (mostly
this is about stoneware and crystal that contains what they consider
to be too much lead).

Sounds good in theory. But in practice they don't know which plates,
glasses, cups, etc. contain lead so they just put up a sign that says
"Some products sold here may contain excessive amounts of lead that
could cause cancer" or etc...

So then you are left to just guess whether or not it may have lead in
it, or some other toxic substance, and you just go away and don't buy
anything at all and wonder "How do I find out if the dinnerware set is
toxic or not?"

So that's why I'm here.

Does anyone know how one can know which dinnerware set has safe
amounts of lead? Does Stoneware generally have more or less lead? Does
non-crystal glassware also have lead? I assume China would be the
country most likely to have dangerous amounts of lead since they don't
seem to be real keen on health and safety over there. But how about
Mexico? Some of the dinnerware we were thinking of buying was
distributed by a major American company but was manufactured in
Mexico.

Any info anyone can give me on this would be helpful.

We like to buy our stuff at Ross stores because they have great deals.
But they have NO customer service and so you are just left to wonder
about their products and take your chances. Do companies like Libbey
or Waterford (or is it Waterstone?) that I saw there sell dinnerware
wtih excessive lead? What is considered a good company that's not
expensive?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supply high Quality Watches Mail:china_86watches@yahoo.com.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca83fb7e71cef009?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:43 pm
From: 86watches

Rolex Watches,Cartier Watches,Panerai watch,Breitling,Chanel
Watches,Omega Watches,Rado Watches,Patek Philippe,IWC Watch,Tag Heuer
watch,Bvlgari Watches,Piaget, Audemars Piguet watch , Longines
watches, Montblanc, Louis Vuitton watches wholesale in China.

86watches export Co.,Ltd is experienced wholesaler in china,our
company can supply so many branded Watches,such as: Rolex
Watches,Cartier Watch,Panerai,Breitling,Chanel Watch,Omega
Watches,Rado Watches,Patek Philippe,IWC Watch,Tag Heuer,Bvlgari
Watches,Piaget,Audemars Piguet watch,Longines ,Montblanc ,Louis
Vuitton watches and etc.

All of our products are AAAAAA+ branded replica and high
quality .Most products displayed on our website are available and
have stocks here.If you have any questions, please feel free to
contact us

Web : http://www.86watches.com
Mail: china_86watches@yahoo.com.cn
MSN : china_86watches@hotmail.com

Rolex Watches,Cartier Watch,Panerai,Breitling,Chanel Watch,Omega
Watches,Rado Watches,Patek Philippe,IWC Watch,Tag Heuer,Bvlgari
Watches,Piaget watch, Audemars Piguet, Longines watch, Montblanc,
Louis Vuitton watches wholesale in China.

Rolex watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=5
Cartier Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=16
Panerai Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=18
Breitling Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=21
Patek Philippe Watch http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=22
IWC Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=25
Omega Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=27
Rado Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=29
Tag Heuer Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=31
Bvlgari Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=33
Chanel Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=1
Longines Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=39
Montblanc Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=41
Louis Vuitton Watch

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=43
Piaget Watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=35
Audemars Piguet

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=37
Chopard watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=52
A.lange&Sohne

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=50
Alain_Silberstein

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=51
DIOR watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=54
Chronoswiss

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=53
Franck-Muller

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=56
Ferrari watches

http://www.86watches.com/category.php?id=55

China,Designer watches ,ladies fashion watches ,Replica watches

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

23 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, Australia investing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d8b4b3304e33f6a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 1:10 pm
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

On Jan 17, 1:54 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The exchange traded fund for Australia, EWA, is looking tempting for
> > a passive way to invest in Australia. I am liking the dividend yield on
> > it as a nice little cushion to investing in the continent. What you say?
>
> Dunno anything about it, I personally mostly invest directly, not via funds.
>
> The chart doesnt look that flash pre 2003, not clear what changed.

EWA finished today at about 25.60. It is about 15% above its 52 week
low. Do you see any signs of slow down in Australia?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> The exchange traded fund for Australia, EWA, is looking tempting for
>>> a passive way to invest in Australia. I am liking the dividend
>>> yield on it as a nice little cushion to investing in the continent.
>>> What you say?

>> Dunno anything about it, I personally mostly invest directly, not via funds.

>> The chart doesnt look that flash pre 2003, not clear what changed.

> EWA finished today at about 25.60. It is about 15% above its
> 52 week low. Do you see any signs of slow down in Australia?

No, but the stockmarket is currently seeing a substantial correction.

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 1:19 pm
From: sarge137

On Jan 17, 1:35 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Ever since getting the new phone number in Alabama, our lines have
> been plagued with telemarketers. Once we got on the DNC registry, the
> local businesses seem to have stopped, but the pre-recorded calls from
> "Heather, from account services" and "Your vehicle warantee is about
> to expire" are becoming as much of a pain as we had in the bad old
> days.

Absolutely correct. To say nothing of the charities and political
action groups which are exempt from the DNC registry. A deliberate,
but ridiculous exemption in my opinion. Some of those outfits are
bigger crooks than the telemarketers.

> I've filed a complaint with the FCC, since it appears that the FTC is
> doing squat to stop this type of problem. Realisticly, filing a
> complaint with the local cops, like the phone companies want people to
> do, is bullshit. A lot of the problem appears to be coming from 207
> area codes, VOIP gateways, and other essentially un-traceable (by the
> consumer) numbers.

Also absolutely correct. The FTC is the agency which is ostensibly in
charge of this problem, but they're simply ignoring it. They may have
assigned a few people to it because they have to, but clearly it's not
real high on their priority list. The phone companies referring
complaints to the local police is simply a mechanism to get you off
their lines without admitting they can't/won't do anything for you.
Unless the call is originating locally your local police have no
jurisdiction and can't do anything about it, even if they want to. At
best they forward your complaint "for action deemed appropriate" -
which is most likely shredding or circular filing.

> TIme for me to get a boat airhorn, dust off my info on incoming call
> filtering devices, and start bitchin to tv stations and the like.

Anonymous call rejection is part on the caller ID service provided by
my local phone company. People who block their calls don't even ring
my phone. They get a recording telling them how to unblock their line
and call me back. Activating that feature has reduced the kind of
calls you refer to substantially. Only a few of my friends actually
block their lines, and don't mind adding a few key strokes to the
number when they call me. No legitimate business would ever block
it's line. My caller ID is in my handset so if it's unknown, out of
area, or I don't recognize it, I just let the answering machine
answer. About 99% of the time when the recording comes up, they hang
up. Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
four other people while I'm playing with them.

> Unless this is stopped soon, it'll get a lot worse.

I share your pain, but don't count on the government to stop it. We
have to protect ourselves. These calls are made because they work,
and will stop only when people stop answering, or unceremoniously hang
up.

Regards,
Sarge

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:22 pm
From: George Grapman

sarge137 wrote:
> On Jan 17, 1:35 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Ever since getting the new phone number in Alabama, our lines have
>> been plagued with telemarketers. Once we got on the DNC registry, the
>> local businesses seem to have stopped, but the pre-recorded calls from
>> "Heather, from account services" and "Your vehicle warantee is about
>> to expire" are becoming as much of a pain as we had in the bad old
>> days.
>
> Absolutely correct. To say nothing of the charities and political
> action groups which are exempt from the DNC registry. A deliberate,
> but ridiculous exemption in my opinion. Some of those outfits are
> bigger crooks than the telemarketers.
>
>> I've filed a complaint with the FCC, since it appears that the FTC is
>> doing squat to stop this type of problem. Realisticly, filing a
>> complaint with the local cops, like the phone companies want people to
>> do, is bullshit. A lot of the problem appears to be coming from 207
>> area codes, VOIP gateways, and other essentially un-traceable (by the
>> consumer) numbers.
>
> Also absolutely correct. The FTC is the agency which is ostensibly in
> charge of this problem, but they're simply ignoring it. They may have
> assigned a few people to it because they have to, but clearly it's not
> real high on their priority list. The phone companies referring
> complaints to the local police is simply a mechanism to get you off
> their lines without admitting they can't/won't do anything for you.
> Unless the call is originating locally your local police have no
> jurisdiction and can't do anything about it, even if they want to. At
> best they forward your complaint "for action deemed appropriate" -
> which is most likely shredding or circular filing.
>
>> TIme for me to get a boat airhorn, dust off my info on incoming call
>> filtering devices, and start bitchin to tv stations and the like.
>
> Anonymous call rejection is part on the caller ID service provided by
> my local phone company. People who block their calls don't even ring
> my phone. They get a recording telling them how to unblock their line
> and call me back. Activating that feature has reduced the kind of
> calls you refer to substantially. Only a few of my friends actually
> block their lines, and don't mind adding a few key strokes to the
> number when they call me. No legitimate business would ever block
> it's line. My caller ID is in my handset so if it's unknown, out of
> area, or I don't recognize it, I just let the answering machine
> answer. About 99% of the time when the recording comes up, they hang
> up. Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
> with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
> think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
> service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
> four other people while I'm playing with them.

I have anonymous call rejection also. Every so often I still see
"Unknown number". I never answer and they never leave a message so I
know it is telemarketers.
At times, I do what you suggested even getting to the point of giving
them the start of a credit card number before telling them another call
came in. Five minutes later I return and ask if many people hang up the
phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them a
favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like me
with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
their day.
Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
practices.

>> Unless this is stopped soon, it'll get a lot worse.
>
> I share your pain, but don't count on the government to stop it. We
> have to protect ourselves. These calls are made because they work,
> and will stop only when people stop answering, or unceremoniously hang
> up.
>
> Regards,
> Sarge

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:10 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>practices.

George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
even legit call-back number.

When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.

With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:58 pm
From: George Grapman

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>> doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>> often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>> with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>> threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>> days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>> $250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>> $100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>> practices.
>
> George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
> the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
> numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
> information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
> they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
> seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
> even legit call-back number.

I understand. There is little you can do about the true scammers other
than ignore them or waste their time. I recent got a slew of recorded
messages telling me I had been approved for a loan. The "apply "option
only got me automated prompts asking for my checking account details.
Yesterday A caller wanted my credit card number. I asked if she would
give it to stranger and she tried to convince me that lacking a
signature no one could use the card. When mentioned internet and phone
purchases acted as if she had never heard of them.. They called back
today and I explained to the lady in great detail what her voice was
doing to me. She hung up.
>
> When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
> the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
> anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
> thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.
>
> With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
> what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
> the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
> system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.
>
>
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:11 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

sarge137 wrote:
> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
> with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
> think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
> service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
> four other people while I'm playing with them.

Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?

The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
story.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Internet TV vs regular TV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f04f08d896e09fd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:09 pm
From: George Grapman

Terry Terry wrote:
> On Jan 16, 7:44 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Another option that I have not seen mentioned: A $9/mo NetFlix
>> subscription gets you unlimited DVDs by mail, (one out at a time -- I
>> can usually turn around two per week), plus unlimited online viewing.
>> Currently their online catalog is somewhat limited (at least compared
>> to their DVD catalog), but it may improve. Both include TV series as
>> well as movies.
>>
>> The quality of the online viewing with my DSL connection is
>> acceptable, but not up to broadcast level.
>>
>
> The 9buck a month is DVDs you can watch in a player. Right? You
> don't have to have broadband for this? We have dialup

The DVDs are seen on your player. The movies are an added freebie but
you will need a high speed connection to view them.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:12 pm
From: George Grapman

Seni Seven wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>> connects.
>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of any
>> type that are not completed.
>
> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes, there is
> a charge even if you don't connect."

You should run from them as fast as you can.
>
>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>> that did that.
>
> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to me:
> "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five cents per
> minute plus tax and fees...."
>
> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
> recording.
>
> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>
> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls don't
> make connections to Turkey.
>
>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>
>>>
>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed, and
>>> that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial tone.
>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you are
>> just confused.
>
> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>
> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never connects.
>
> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime for
> as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>
> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
> dialing the number.
>
> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am enthusiastically
> sitting here for your reply.

Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
carrier,will be domestic.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:51 pm
From: Seni Seven

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:

> Seni Seven wrote:
>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>
>>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>>> connects.
>>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of
>>> any
>>> type that are not completed.
>>
>> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes,
>> there is a charge even if you don't connect."
>
> You should run from them as fast as you can.
>>
>>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>>> that did that.
>>
>> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to
>> me: "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five
>> cents per minute plus tax and fees...."
>>
>> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>> recording.
>>
>> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>>
>> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls
>> don't make connections to Turkey.
>>
>>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed,
>>>> and that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial
>>>> tone.
>>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you
>>> are just confused.
>>
>> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>>
>> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never
>> connects.
>>
>> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime
>> for as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>>
>> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
>> dialing the number.
>>
>> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
>> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am
>> enthusiastically sitting here for your reply.
>
> Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
> dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
> carrier,will be domestic.

I'll look into it. If the charge on this "domestic" call on a phone card
ends up still being greater than my estimation of the times I call on the
other service with no connect, then I'll probably stick with the service I
now have. What my current wireless service is charging me on these
international calls is in effect air time, which they don't charge at all
on the domestic side of my plan (of course, their coverage area sucks,
even within their designated coverage area).

I am skeptical that an 800 phone card would not kick in a special rate for
an international call, unless the call itself is basically being charged
at a per-minute rate so high that it would cover the most expensive
international call possible anyway.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:53 pm
From: George Grapman

Seni Seven wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>>
>>>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>>>> connects.
>>>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of
>>>> any
>>>> type that are not completed.
>>> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>>> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes,
>>> there is a charge even if you don't connect."
>> You should run from them as fast as you can.
>>>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>>>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>>>> that did that.
>>> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to
>>> me: "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five
>>> cents per minute plus tax and fees...."
>>>
>>> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>>> recording.
>>>
>>> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>>> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>>>
>>> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls
>>> don't make connections to Turkey.
>>>
>>>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed,
>>>>> and that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial
>>>>> tone.
>>>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>>>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>>>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you
>>>> are just confused.
>>> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>>>
>>> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never
>>> connects.
>>>
>>> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime
>>> for as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>>>
>>> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
>>> dialing the number.
>>>
>>> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
>>> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am
>>> enthusiastically sitting here for your reply.
>> Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
>> dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
>> carrier,will be domestic.
>
> I'll look into it. If the charge on this "domestic" call on a phone card
> ends up still being greater than my estimation of the times I call on the
> other service with no connect, then I'll probably stick with the service I
> now have. What my current wireless service is charging me on these
> international calls is in effect air time, which they don't charge at all
> on the domestic side of my plan (of course, their coverage area sucks,
> even within their designated coverage area).
>
> I am skeptical that an 800 phone card would not kick in a special rate for
> an international call, unless the call itself is basically being charged
> at a per-minute rate so high that it would cover the most expensive
> international call possible anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
Calling the 800 number for the phone card will incur the same per
minute rate you pay for domestic calls. If you are talking about the
rate on the card then,yes, some countries cost more than others. Find
someone who calls Turkey (look for maybe a Turkish restaurant or even a
consulate) and ask which cards they use.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 5:51 pm
From: LDC

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:58:13 GMT, Seni Seven
<OneWhoLovesYou@humanitarian.ca> wrote:

>George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>> connects.
>>
>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of any
>> type that are not completed.
>
>Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes, there is
>a charge even if you don't connect."
>
>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>> that did that.
>
>It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to me:
>"You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five cents per
>minute plus tax and fees...."
>
>So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>recording.
>
>I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>
>I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls don't
>make connections to Turkey.

On OneSuite.com the rate to Turkey from the US is 15.5 cents per
minute. (Istanbul is a little less.) There is a call setup fee of
around 3 cents. There are no other fees or charges.

Is MetroPCS cheaper than that?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cellphone battery life
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca4d0c8b9093ec56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:13 pm
From: Jeff

Terry Terry wrote:
> On Jan 17, 1:02 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>> On Jan 16, 5:28 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>>>> I have a Tracfone. I bought it for emergencies a month ago. The
>>>>> instructions say that the phone will withstand temperatures to -10C
>>>>> and will hold a charge for 10 days.
>>>>> They lie.
>>>>> Because I only use my phone for emergencies, I left my phone in my car
>>>>> for two nights. The temperature came near freezing, but did not drop
>>>>> to freezing.
>>>>> The phone battery died.
>>>>> I took it back. The girl at the counter said that all phones are like
>>>>> that. Don't leave the phone in the car. Is she telling the truth or
>>>>> should I insist on another phone?
>>>> Maybe the battery was bad or not fully charged. Since you only use it
>>>> for emergencies, presumably outgoing calls, why not remove or
>>>> disconnect the battery when not in use. It should keep it's charge for
>>>> weeks or months. I have a couple in a drawer here and I charge them
>>>> every 2-3 months, but they are still plenty live enough to make a call
>>>> even then. I am speaking about lithium-ion batteries. NI-CAD or NMH
>>>> won't hold a charge as long as they have a shorter shelf life.
>>> How would taking out the battery extend its life?
>> At least turn the phone off. But even with the phone off it is still
>> drawing some power, that switch is a software switch not a hardware
>> switch like your home light switches.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am thinking that the battery is bad and I should be able to exchange
>>> it for another phone. I had that in mind when I returned it to the
>>> store, but the girl at the counter said that was typical operation.
>> I'm thinking you did this awkwardly by starting a complaint about the
>> phone, hence putting the counter girl in confrontation mode.
>>
>> It's always easier if you ask people to help you. Just tell her the
>> phone died and you don't know why, what can we do about it. Don't go
>> into why can't it stand the cold, don't even mention that.
>>
>> I have similar problems when my girlfriend tries to take something
>> back, she complains and they refuse. Now she gets me to do it and there
>> are no problems. People will go out of their way to help if they want
>> to, otherwise you are by the book.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I don't think that is what happened. I have started shopping at Radio
> Shack again. I quit for shopping there for a very long time because I
> bought my first IBM compatible machine there. Anyway.....I know the
> salesperson.
>
> I could have insisted for an exchange and got one. I wasn't
> complaining. I just told her what happened. I also think she told
> the truth to me when she said that if I got another one it would do
> the same thing.
>

I'm confused. It sounded to me that the battery died and that was it.
Has the battery recharged?

All batteries have much less capacity at lower temperatures. It's a
chemical reaction and it's temperature dependant. That's why they rate
car batteries in cold cranking amps.

If the battery is dead, dead, dead, get a new one. If it just needed
to be recharged or warmed up, then that's normal.

Jeff

> I just wanted to hear from other cell phone users that may treat their
> phones the same way. I want to leave my phone in my car when I am
> away from home and not have it in my pocket. I know most people keep
> their phone handy even if they don't plan to get any calls. I know I
> will not be getting any calls, because I haven't given out my phone
> number. I don't consider being out of bread an emergency.
>
> The only thing I care to spend a dollar a min to call would be 911 or
> a tow truck.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:23 pm
From: Terry Terry

On Jan 17, 5:13 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> Terry Terry wrote:
> > On Jan 17, 1:02 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> >> Terry Terry wrote:
> >>> On Jan 16, 5:28 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Terry Terry wrote:
> >>>>> I have a Tracfone. I bought it for emergencies a month ago. The
> >>>>> instructions say that the phone will withstand temperatures to -10C
> >>>>> and will hold a charge for 10 days.
> >>>>> They lie.
> >>>>> Because I only use my phone for emergencies, I left my phone in my car
> >>>>> for two nights. The temperature came near freezing, but did not drop
> >>>>> to freezing.
> >>>>> The phone battery died.
> >>>>> I took it back. The girl at the counter said that all phones are like
> >>>>> that. Don't leave the phone in the car. Is she telling the truth or
> >>>>> should I insist on another phone?
> >>>> Maybe the battery was bad or not fully charged. Since you only use it
> >>>> for emergencies, presumably outgoing calls, why not remove or
> >>>> disconnect the battery when not in use. It should keep it's charge for
> >>>> weeks or months. I have a couple in a drawer here and I charge them
> >>>> every 2-3 months, but they are still plenty live enough to make a call
> >>>> even then. I am speaking about lithium-ion batteries. NI-CAD or NMH
> >>>> won't hold a charge as long as they have a shorter shelf life.
> >>> How would taking out the battery extend its life?
> >> At least turn the phone off. But even with the phone off it is still
> >> drawing some power, that switch is a software switch not a hardware
> >> switch like your home light switches.
>
> >>> I am thinking that the battery is bad and I should be able to exchange
> >>> it for another phone. I had that in mind when I returned it to the
> >>> store, but the girl at the counter said that was typical operation.
> >> I'm thinking you did this awkwardly by starting a complaint about the
> >> phone, hence putting the counter girl in confrontation mode.
>
> >> It's always easier if you ask people to help you. Just tell her the
> >> phone died and you don't know why, what can we do about it. Don't go
> >> into why can't it stand the cold, don't even mention that.
>
> >> I have similar problems when my girlfriend tries to take something
> >> back, she complains and they refuse. Now she gets me to do it and there
> >> are no problems. People will go out of their way to help if they want
> >> to, otherwise you are by the book.
>
> >> Jeff
>
> > I don't think that is what happened. I have started shopping at Radio
> > Shack again. I quit for shopping there for a very long time because I
> > bought my first IBM compatible machine there. Anyway.....I know the
> > salesperson.
>
> > I could have insisted for an exchange and got one. I wasn't
> > complaining. I just told her what happened. I also think she told
> > the truth to me when she said that if I got another one it would do
> > the same thing.
>
> I'm confused. It sounded to me that the battery died and that was it.
> Has the battery recharged?
>
> All batteries have much less capacity at lower temperatures. It's a
> chemical reaction and it's temperature dependant. That's why they rate
> car batteries in cold cranking amps.
>
> If the battery is dead, dead, dead, get a new one. If it just needed
> to be recharged or warmed up, then that's normal.
>
> Jeff
>
> > I just wanted to hear from other cell phone users that may treat their
> > phones the same way. I want to leave my phone in my car when I am
> > away from home and not have it in my pocket. I know most people keep
> > their phone handy even if they don't plan to get any calls. I know I
> > will not be getting any calls, because I haven't given out my phone
> > number. I don't consider being out of bread an emergency.
>
> > The only thing I care to spend a dollar a min to call would be 911 or
> > a tow truck.

No it is not dead. It charged backup fine.

The instructions lead me to believe I could leave the phone in the car
for 10 days at 10C.

I take if from other replies that this is not the intended use for the
phone.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:26 pm
From: Shawn Wilson

On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Here are 14 reasons why the US has to cut benefits to senior citizens.
> > "Snopes" is provided for any doubters. I hope the following reasons are
> > forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the
> > reader gets sick of reading them.

Sigh...

How to lie with statistics 101- make sure to include all negatives (/
positives) of the policy you don't (/do) like and lowball or ignore
any positives (/negatives).

Here we have a great many negatives of illegals, no corresponding data
on legal immigrants for comparison (on a per capita basis it's pretty
obvious that illegals will cost less than legals as they will be
afraid to seek some services for fear of deportation), and an utter
lack or any mention of positives the illegals provide the country,
like cheap labor and lower prices.

Please, if you want to discuss government policy do it honestly.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:58 pm
From: nospam@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek)

In article <yJCdnYbRH7K0GhLanZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@giganews.com>,
Topp@Work <topprolmc@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Matter of fact, the ACLU is representing larry in his case against the State
>of MN for
>violating his right to privacy, cause in MN there is a law regarding asking
>for sex is a
>private act when in a bathroom....

Of course. Us evul liberals support your right to have gay sex in
the men's room, it's just that doing so makes you unelectable as a
Republican. Hey, I don't make the Republican's silly rules...

--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 4:47 pm
From: -

Ted wrote:
> On Jan 16, 9:52 am, Righteous Dude <n...@hotmail.uk> wrote:
>> Here are 14 reasons why the US has to cut benefits to senior citizens.
>> "Snopes" is provided for any doubters. I hope the following reasons are
>> forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the
>> reader gets sick of reading them.
>> I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp
>>
>> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
>> each year.http://tinyurl.com/zob77
>>
>> 2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
>> such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
>>
>> 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
>> aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
>>
>> 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
>> education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
>> English!http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
>>
>> 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
>> American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
>> social services by the American taxpayers.http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
>> by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
>> two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
>> their
>> children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the UShttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
>> that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal
>> aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine,
>> meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern
>> border. Homeland Security Report:http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
>>
>> 12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of
>> mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
>> cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
>>
>> 13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back
>> to their countries of origin.http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
>>
>> 14. Nearly One Million Sex Crimes were Committed by Illegal Immigrants
>> In The United States.http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
>>
>> The total cost is $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS per YEAR
>>
>> Deportation would be cheaper than maintenance or amnesty for illegals.
>
> Does anyone still support the government in Washington, DC?
>
> ted
The government isn't in Washington D C. The Government is on Wall
Street. Their flunkies are in D C.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:13 pm
From: Paul Knudsen

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:41:26 -0800, "Billzz"
<billzzstring@starband.net> wrote:

>Probably not what anyone wanted to hear.

It doesn't really matter. Big Business and But Agriculture want
illegals who'll work cheap, and they pay their congresscritters (of
both parties) to make sure they get them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plastic grocery bag debate question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76c040c2f7b9f6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:54 pm
From: pc

Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article
> <e399c3ec-75fe-480a-8192-f1d79d31e7b0@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 14, 3:00 pm, pc <p...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>> Greetings group..
>>>
>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>>
>>> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
>>> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry home
>>> a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
>>>
>>> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
>>> plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
>>> other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
>>> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
>>>
>>> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I
>>> use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
>>> biodegradable bag!
>> Banning these bags is a classic example of useless "feel good"
>> legislation, that just creates inconvenience and bigger problems down
>> the line.
>>
>> The city council where I live had a public hearing last year on this
>> very subject. As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
>> won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
>> people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
>> these bags for. Fortunately the measure failed unanimously.
>
> The speaker who said that is missing the point. The point behind banning
> plastic grocery bags isn't to reduce their presence in landfills, its to
> reduce their presence on city streets.

Interesting observation. And it has a ring of truth in it, AFAIAC.

..PC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: There are different styles for jeans t-shirts hoody handbag purses
shoes from (www.globwholesale.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47a3463d603663fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:38 pm
From: globwholesale

www.globwholesale.com A china Nike customs Shoes Wholesale
design
company, we Wholesale NIKE Sneakers from our Nike factory to Nike
shop
& Nike store, sale and Wholesale all of Nike stock Shoes, we have
many
type of NIKE Sneakers : Nike discount Shoes, Nike cheap Shoes, Nike
stock Shoes (Nike Trainers, Nike Sneakers, Nike Running Shoes, Nike
Basketball Shoes,Nike Discount Shoes,Nike Cheap Shoes, footwear,
Sports Shoes.cheap wholesale nike shoes Air jordans,nike shoes Air
force one shoes,nike shoes Air max shoes ,nike shoes　dunk
shoes,Adidas
shoes,Puma shoes,Prada shoes,Gucci shoes,Bape shoes,Red monkey
jeans,children shoes,bape hoodies,bbc hoodies,evisu hoodies,lrg
hoodies,polo hoodies,ed hardy hoodies,timberland shoes,gucci
bags,chloe bags,juicy bag,coach bag,fedi bag,chanel bag,red monkey
jeans at www.globwholesale.com bape jeans,evisu jeans, bbc
jeans,seven
jeans,D&g jeans,antik jeans,lrg jeans,Gunit jeans,Akademikes jeans,lv
bag,nike shoes women shoes,wholesale jeans,nike shoes wholesale,nike
shoes　dunks wholesale,nike shoes　dunk sb,wholesale nike
sneakers,wholesale nike shoes jordan sneakers,nike shoes　air max 90,
95, 97 ,180, 360, tn ,ltd, nike shox nz r3 r4 r5,nike shoes air force
1s nike shoes xxv year at www.globwholesale.com
Nike wholesale - nike shoes wholesale. We wholesale nike shoes: Nike
dunk, Nike jordan, Nike air force 1, Nike shox tl nz r4 r5 turbo
monster, Nike air max 360 95 97 2003 2004 90 91 93 TN Plus. We
wholesale nike shoes types: Nike trainers sneakers, Nike basketball
shoes, Nike running shoes, Nike Men"s women"s mens womens shoes, Nike
cheap discount shoes for nike shop store.nike sneakers jordan
sneakers gucci sneakers prada sneakers wholesale at www.globwholesale.com
Nike shoes wholesale include: Nike air dunk low mid high, Nike Air
force 1 low mid high, nike air jordan 21 XXI 11 XI 13 20,nike
shocks,Nike shox,Nike shox tl,shox tl 3 III,Nike shox nz,Nike shox
r4,Nike shox r5,Nike shox turbo,nike shox monster,nike shox VC 1234 I
II III IV, Nike Air max tn plus,Nike air max 360,Nike air max 95,
Nike
air max 97, Nike air max 2003,Nike air max 2004,Nike air max 90,Nike
air rift nike air jordan nike jordan sneakers wholesale
Our china Nike factory sale and wholesale nike shoes to your nike
shop
& nike store and Nike Factory, buy cheap disount nike shoes from
china
nike wholesale globwholesale company now.We wholesale nike shoes:
Nike
dunks
SB, Nike jordan, Nike air force 1s, Nike shox tl nz r4 r5 turbo
monster, Nike air max 360 95 97 03 180 90 TN Plus for. Nike shoes
wholesale,Wholesale Nike shoes Nike air dunk jordan max shox Nike
shoes wholesale from Nike Factory to Nike shop & Nike Store ... Nike
shoes wholesale nike air max dunk jordan force 1 shox.nike shoes
supplier in China, We Wholesale Air Jordan 21 Shoes, Jordan 7 Shoes
at www.globwholesale.com
Air ... once worked in nike authorized factory,
where the shoes factories are located in putian.shoes trainers
sneakers suppliers factory.china Nike Wholesale China for Cheap ...
Ones sneakers china wholesale We are specialized in Nike shoes
manufacturingWholesale NIKE jordan puma adidas,Bape
Sta,gucci,prada,Timberland,Louis Vuitton, ... Wholesale nike shox
shoes. *Identifying replica sneakers.Sta from nike outlets and
factory
stores, also Nike wholesale - Jordan Shoes wholesale. ... China for
Cheap with Discount here, we supply Nike Sneakers,Jordans sneakers
gucci sneakers prada sneakers.A china Nike customs Shoes Wholesale
sneakers-wholesale company,we Wholesale NIKE Sneakers from our Nike
factory to
Nike shop & Nike store,Nike discoun Shoes,Nike cheap Shoes,china Nike
Shoes.also we provide you with colorful at

www.globwholesale.com

styles for nike sneakers, jordan sneakers, nike dunks,nike sb.china
nike shoes wholesale air jordan gucci prada lacoste puma ... Nike Air
Max, Nike Air Max 360, Nike Air Max 90, Nike Air Max 91, Nike Air Max
95, Nike Air Max 97, Nike Air Max 2003, Nike Air Max 2004, Nike Air
Max 2005, Nike Air Max 2006, Nike Air Max 360, Nike Air MAX Tn Plus,
Nike Air Max Ltd Nike Air Max 180.Wholesale Distributor for the Best
Genuine Swiss Rolex Replica ... Omega. Panerai. Patek Philippe.
Piaget. Tag Heuer. Vacheron Constantin. Watches Box Sets wholesale
iphone from china, dropship cheap iphone, supplies discount
iphone ...
Apple Iphone Nokia N95 Mobile Phone Nokia N93 N91 N73 Bluetooth Made
in China cellphones .wholesale ipod,wholesale car dvd,wholesaler car
dvd,ipod nano,wholesale ipod ... wholesale ipod shuffle,ipod
nano,iPhone, wholesale psp from China to worldwide at www.globwholesale.com

Tiffany Silver Jewelry, Supply high quality and best
service for Tiffany silver Jewelry - Tiffany Wholesale Supplier.store
factory .rings, bracelets, bangles, earrings, necklaces, cuff links,
and more.Shirt, Wholesale T-Shirts, Wholesale Tank Tops, Wholesale
Womens Shirts. ... Cap Sleeve T-Shirts. Cap Sleeve T-Shirts Black.
Cap
Sleeve T-Shirts .Offering wholesale clothing and brand name urban
apparel. ... of wholesale urban wear clothing like wholesale designer
jeans, wholesale brand Jeans , ... Jeans Wholesale , China Custom-
made
Jeans , Customized Logoed Direct from China, wholesale NFL jersey,NHL
jersey,football jersey,NBA jersey,MLB jersey china stores .We also
wholesale all updated and quality clothing from fashion brands to
hiphop clothing and streetwear at globwholesale Dot Com. China
Wholesaler of Bape hoodies,Bape clothes,Bape shoes,Wholesale Updated
ED Hardy Clothes,Ed Hardy Jeans,Ed Hardy Hats,Evisu jeans at
www.globwholesale.com Christian

Audigier Jeans and Hoodies,Wholesale
Gino Green Global Hoodies,Jeans,Kidrobot Hoodies,Wholesale Coogi
jeans,Coogi hoody,Crown Holder jeans and hoody,Miskeen Jeans,L.R.G
hoodies,Pants,T-shirts,BBC(Billionaire Boys Club),CLH clothing,10
deep
clothes,Wholesale Red monkey jeans,1:1 authentic Evisu jeans,Artful
Dodger Clothes,G-unit,Wholesale New era hats,Ecko,Sean John,True
religion jeans at www.globwholesale.com Zooyork,t-

shirts,hoodies,Stussy,Greedy Genius Apparel,Neighborhood,Mastermind
JAPAN,Stussy,Akademiks,Antik jeans,streetwear,Hip hop clothing from
china at cheap prices, Also Wholesale cheap rock republic jeans,Seven
jeans,Armani Jeans,Quality Abercrombie&Fitch (AF) coats,juicy couture
clothes,handbags,Coach handbags,Fendi Handbags,SunGlasses,Chloe
handbag,AAA quality LV handbags,Chanel bags,Dior purse,authentic
quality lacoste t-shirts,cheap paul smith shirts,Ralph Lauren Polo
shirts,The north face Jackets,Canada Goose coats, AAA quality clothes
cheap wholesale from china nfl,nba,mlb,nhl,soccer ,soccer jerseys
nike
brand,mlb jerseys china supplier,mlb jerseys china
wholesaler.wholesale mlb jerseys.nflshop,,nfl nba mlb nhl jerser
wholesale, nfl nba mlb nhl jersey supplier,nfl nba mlb nhl jersey
korea supplier,nlf nba jersey at wwww.globwholesale.com
stock,alibaba,wholesale nfl nba mlb nhl jerseys.soccer jersey china
supplier,soccer jerseys china wholesale.wholesale soccer jersey,
supply soccer jerseys,nfl nba mlb nhl copy jersey,copy jerseys from
china,nfl jerseys from china.nba at www.globwholesale.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.globwholesale.com) Brand Electronics at discount price (IPOD NANO,
Nokia N95, Apple Iphone, GPS,)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0ced4348f5c826d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:39 pm
From: globwholesale

www .globwholesale. com

Nokia factory wholesale :

Cheap brand electronics at discout price, wholesale mp3 player, mp4
player, cheap ipod nano , discount apple iphone wholesale, cheap
nokia
7500 mobile phone wholesale at www.globwholesale.com

Wholesale nokia n76 mobile phone, nokia n92 mobile phone, nokia n93
mobile phone, nokia n93i mobile phone, nokia n95 mobile phone, nokia
7500 mobile phone and so on,(www.globwholesale.com)

sell gps mobile phone, discount nokia mobile phone at factory
wholesale.
(www.globwholesale.com)

China discount wholesale apple iphone , cheap gps ,cheap ipod nano,
cheap nokia n76,nokia n93, nokia n95, nokia n93i, nokia 7500,
wholesale factory.
(www.globwholesale.com)

cheap gps wholesale on www.globwholesale.com

discount ipod nano wholesale at
www.globwholesale.com

buy cheap nokia bluetooth on
www.globwholesale.com

cheap nokia n76 mobile phone at
www.globwholesale.com

discount nokia n92 mobile phone on
www.globwholesale.com

cheap wholesale nokia n93 mobile phone on
www.globwholesale.com

nokia factory wholesale at
www.globwholesale.com

hot sell nokia n95 mobile phone on
www.globwholesale.com

Our company supplier nokia mobile motorola phone samsung mobile nokia
nseries nokia 8800 nokia vertu nokia n95 n93 n91 n80 n73 n72 n71 n70
nokia 6300 motorola v3 motorola v3i samsung d900 ibm laptop HP laptop
laptop apple macbook iphone lcd, playstation3 console, xbox 360,
nintendo wii, digital camera, nokia 8800 sirocco new edition, sony
ericsson p900, nokia n92, nokia n95, game boy xp, laptops, acer
laptop, dell laptop, motorolla v3x, car dvd nokia, nokia n95, nokia
mobile, nokia n95 mobile, wholesale nokia, wholesale nokia n95,
wholesale nokia mobile, nokia wholesale, nokia n95 wholesale, nokia
nseries mobile wholesale, nokia mobile whole sale, nokia wholesalers,
nokia n93 wholesalers, nokia mobile wholesalers, nokia n91 mobile
wholesalers, nokia suppliers, nokia 95 suppliers, nokia n80 mobile
suppliers, nokia mobile suppliers, nokia exporters, motorola,
suppliers
www.globwholesale.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: temporary health insurance for a recent graduate
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca3c7cbfde6133a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 4:21 pm
From: "Sally Robertson"

<tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:0f83a337-af73-42e8-ba19-48c9f57d0772@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> Whatever. Breeding does horrendous things to your body, even if you
> only have one. My great-grandmother was a midwife, so the women in my
> family definitely saw all the horrors of spawning and most didn't do
> it if they could avoid it. My mother's was the first generation in my
> family to have access to birth control, and she only had one.

Why did she even have that many if she thought it was so horrible and, as
you've implied, she was able to exercise control over having children?

> My aunts had none. Most of my grandmother's generation would have been
> childfree as well, if they could have been. My great aunt always said,
> "I love my kids, but if I could choose again, I'd have stayed single!"
> Back in those days, that meant no kids

In other words, "I love my kids but I wish I'd never married their father or
given birth to them." That sounds like a lovely family. Thankfully they've
apparently been pretty successful at proving Darwin right and eliminating
themselves from the gene pool and I applaud your own contribution in that
respect.

> Oh, and by the way, PLONK.

LOL! If you know how to killfile someone, you should know how easy it was
for me to defeat it. After all, you surely aren't dumb enough to post using
your real e-mail address . . or are you?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ※★buy shop cheap air Max nike jordan adidas AF1 shoes clothes handbag
glasses jeans T-shirts watches belts hats wholesale price&19.99★www.netfashion
2008.cn★※
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a1cc330bde14dff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 5:48 pm
From: xiaoshifeng018@gmail.com

Hotmail: netfashion2008@hotmail.com

(www.netfashion2008.cn )professionally wholesale sports shoes from
china,main product including:Footwear-sneakers series
(nike,puma,adidas,Jordan 1-24,nike max,nike shox,nike dunk,nike
kobe,nike rift,bapesta,timberland
boot,D&G,dsquqred,LV,prada,icecream,NBA,lacoste shoes,ect).,T-
shirts,jeans,hootdies/clothes series.,Sandal slippers series.,Leather
belt series.,Handbags series.,Purse series.,Sunglasses,the sun hats/
cap series.,etc.In the short several years, the company by the most
preferential price, the first-class quality, the first-class
service,the first-class security transportation, receives the domestic
and foreign customers welcome. Product best-selling Europe and
America,france, Southeast Asia, Russia, South Africa, country and area
and so on.
Welcome u coming to business with us !!!
Our msn:netfashion2008@hotmail.com
Our website:http://www.netfashion2008.cn
and wholesale jewelry,watch,mp3,mp4.
wholesale Nike Air Jordan, Nike Air Jordan Retro XI, Nike Air Jordan
shoes
http://www.netfashion2008.cn

and
wholesale Nike Air Jordan Retro Basketball Shoes, Air Jordan I, Air
Jordan
http://www.netfashion2008.cn

a
wholesale Jordan Shoes and Nike Shoes can be found here
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Nike Jordan, Air Force 1,Dunk,Air max 95,97
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Jordan Shoes, Nike Air Jordan XI and IV, Retro Michael
Jordan Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan original xi 11, Nike Air Jordan xi, Nike
Air
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale New nike air jordan XI/11 shoes/nike shoes/air jordan
shoes/
nike
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Air Jordan Air Jordan I Air Jordan II Air Jordan III Air
Jordan
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike, Jordan XI Basketball Shoes Review in Basketball Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan retro 9, Nike Air Jordan retro ix, Nike Air
Jordan retro 9 ix sneakers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Jordan Shoes, Nike Air Jordan XI and IV, Retro Michael
Jordan Shoes Jordan shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan Retro 13 xiii, Nike Air Jordan 13 retro,
Nike Air
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan, Nike Air Jordan Retro XI, Nike Air Jordan
shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Max Jordan 15 Jordan 16 Jordan 17 Jordan 18 Jordan
19 Jordan 20 Jordan 21
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Jordan 1.5 Dubzero Jordan 5.5 Jordan 21.5
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
)Jordan 3.5 ? Jordan 6.5 ? Jordan 9.5 ? Jordan 17.5. Nike DUNK. DUNK.
Air Force one
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Wholesale/sell nike air jordan 21/XXI,nike shoes suppliers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
sell nike air jordan, AF1,dunk,airmax,shox,gucci,timberland,bape
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
sell nike air jordan shoes for low price
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
CHINA wholesale Nike Jordan, Air Force 1,Dunk
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Sell Nike Shoes,Nike Air Jordan Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Sell nike , air jordan, Af1,bape,prada,dunk,evisu jeans,coatsNike
Shox
TL III, Shox (www.netfashion2008.cn)
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
NZ, Shox TL 123, Shox 2:40 2:45, Shox
nike jordan, air max, nike shox, nike tn, nike rival, nike
(www. cheapestsell . com)
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
nike shoes, nike air max, air max 95, air max 97, airmax 2003
(www.netfashion2008.cn)nike shox, nike shox shoes, nike shox
basketball
shoes, nike shox
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike shox tl/tl2 /tl3 shoes with aaa grade,low
price
(www.netfashion2008.cn)nike shox - Offers for nike shox - exporters,
manufacturers
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike air force one, nike shoes, nike shox,
nike
air, nike dunks
(www.netfashion2008.cn) trainer shoes - Offers for trainer shoes -
exporters
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell and buy nike shoes online trade lead,
nike
shoes wholesaler
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Shoes, Nike air force one 1,
nike
air force ones, nike air forces
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Nike air jordan air jordans, Nike basketball
shoes,
nike sneakers, air jordan shoes, jordan sneaker
(www. cheapestsell . com)wholesale NIKE Sneakers | Air Jordan Sneakers
|
AIR
FORCE ONE 1S | Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Sell and buy nike shoes online trade
lead,
nike shoes wholesaler
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell Nike Jordans, Air Maxes, and Clears
Locally
and Online!
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Air Max, Nike Air Max 360, Nike
Air
Max 90, Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale nike air force one, af1 shoes, nike
jordan shoes, athletic shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Shoes, Nike air force one 1 one
shoes, air jordans, air force
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Air Force - Buying Leads for Air Force -
Buyers,
Importers
Nike Air Force One (AF1) Low
nike air force one - Offers for nike air force one - exporters
Wholesale AAA quality Nike Air Force one boot, nike, jordan
Factory Wholesale Suppliers Nike Air Force one
Hot sell nike air force one boot
Factory Wholesale Suppliers Nike Air Force Ones and Jordans
Buy Jordan Shoes Nike Air Force One Clear Shoes (United States)
Sell Bape Hoodies , Polo , Lacoste ,New styles , wholesale ! clear
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell new type jordan,air force one,bape
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell nike shoes clear air jordan 1 onsale Sell
nike
shoes supply AAA quality sport shoes at lowest price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell nike ,jordan sport shoes

(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell nike jordan,nike shox,nike air force
one,nike
air max shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)buy sell jordan shoes|nike tn|shox|dunk|Puma|
air
max|
air froce 1
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale nike air jordan xxi.v, sell nike air
jordan 21.5, sell nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike shoes,air jordan,Air Force One
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike jordan,sports shoes, air force
one.nike
shox, women
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell Nike shoes,air Jordan,air force one,,bape
hoodies low price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Air Force Ones Wholesale Nike Factory
Suppliers
low
price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike shoes air force one af1 clear hot selling
low
price
sell nike tn/air force one shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike air force one Manufacturer, Buyer,
Supplier
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Wholesale Nike Air Force One Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell Jordans and Nike Air Force Ones Wholesale
Authentic Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)clear air force ones Manufacturer, Buyer,
Supplier,
Importer
(www.netfashion2008.cn) NIKE Sneakers | Air Jordan Sneakers | AIR
FORCE
ONE
1S | Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Air Force One, Air Force One, Nike Air force
one,
air force one shoes, air force one,
sell Nike Shoes,Dunk,Jordan,Jordan11,Jordan DMP,Air Force 1,Shox
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white -
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell air force 1 shoes, wholesale new style
af1
shoes, af1 shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell Af1 Shoes Sell Air force one, sell China
Air
force one, Air force one trade
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell Nike air max Nike shox AF1 Nike dunk
Jordan
Adidas Puma
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sellnikeshoes,china,jordan,tn,shox,timberland,puma,p...,
shoes,nike shoes.
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Sell Air force one JORDAN , NIKE
SHOES,
air force one, air jordan, max360
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike jordan,sports shoes, air force
one.nike
shox, women
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Nike Air Jordan - Nike Air Jordan 4. Nike shoes
wholesale: Nike Air Jordan 4 men\'s women\'s trainers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sneakers basketball shoes running shoes. Nike
Air
Jordan 4 cheap discount shoes nike wholesale and sale
to nike shop and nike store from our company.. We also sale and
wholesale nike shoes other styles:nike air max - nike air
Welcome to my website: www.netfashion2008.cn

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Thursday, January 17, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

23 new messages in 11 topics - digest