Frugal Living: Sep 21, 2008

Sunday, September 21, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I am losing my butt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b88d0c3914417a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 10:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Chief Thracian <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>> are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>> covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool.

> But that's not what you claimed in your original statement.

Irrelevant. I assumed that even someone as stupid as you would realise
that if you want to simultaneously avoid HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS
and BURGLARY AND FIRE, that a safe deposit box does that fine.

Obviously a stupid assumption on my part.

> You just said to keep the money under a bed.

I JUST said that that is ONE WAY TO AVOID HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS.

> But when I questioned that, you altered your words and said you meant a SAFE under a bed.

I assumed that even someone as stupid as you would realise that
if you want to simultaneously avoid HIGHLY VOLATILE MARKETS
and BURGLARY AND FIRE, that a fireproof safe does that.

Obviously a stupid assumption on my part.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 7:35 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Chief Thracian <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> EVERY market is highly volatile, dufus.
>
>>>>>>>>> Cash under the bed isnt, fool.
>
>>>>>>>> Right, keep believing that.
>
>>>>>>> I will thanks.
>
>>>>>>>> Funny thing though, in the case of cash under the bed, it is the most LITERALLY volatial than any other type of
>>>>>>>> savings...paper burns!
>
>>>>>>> Not if you have enough of a clue to have fireproof safe under the bed, fool.
>
>>>>>>>> Why lose sleep each and every night, worrying about a fire?
>
>>>>>>> Dont need to with a fireproof safe, fool.
>
>>>>>>>>> That is JUST saying that cash under the bed isnt HIGHLY VOLATILE, fool.
>
>>>>>>>> I repeat: paper burns.
>
>>>>>>> I repeat: anyone with a clue puts their money in a fireproof safe if they want to avoid highly volatile markets,
>>>>>>> fool.
>
>>>>>>>> And, you are subject to burglary, once word is out.
>
>>>>>>> No need for any word to get out, and if you are that paranoid,
>>>>>>> you can always keep the cash in a bank vault instead if you want
>>>>>>> to avoid highly volatile markets, fool.
>
>>>>>>>> Some people will soon be desperate enough to demand you hand
>>>>>>>> over the moolah at gunpoint...security safe or no. "The combination or your life!"
>
>>>>>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>>>>>>> are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>>>>>>> covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool.
>
>>>>>> The FDIC does not cover safe deposit boxes nor do insurance policies that the banks carry on their own.
>
>>>>> Never said they did.
>
>>>> In your own words which you were kind enough to quote above:
>
>>>>>> "Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that there
>>>>>> are bank vaults that solve that problem and have insurance that
>>>>>> covers the situation where that doesnt work, fool."
>
>>> That was talking about avoiding the consequences of BURGLARY, not the market.
>
>>>> As i noted neither FDIC nor a banks own insurance covers cash in a safe deposit box.
>
>>> Irrelevant when you use a safe deposit box to avoid BURGLARY, and the banks insurance to cover BURGLARY while its in
>>> the safe deposit box.
>
>> But that insurance does not cover cash.
>
> It can do in some situations, like when you can prove that the cash was in there before the robbery.
>
How does one prove one had cash there?

>> Speaking of safe deposit boxes, when I was much younger and people were prosecuted for small amounts of pot I kept
>> mine in a safe deposit box.On Fridays I would access it,go to the private room ,roll a few joints for the weekend and
>> return the box.
>
> No surprises there. We can see the result in your posts.

This from welfare bot who can barely spell and who who whines bots
whenever he is shown to be wrong.
>
> No surprise that you couldnt manage to work out we were discussing burglary either.

Yes, and cash is a safe deposit is not covered by FDIC or the banks
own insurance.
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism
have shattered. The World As We Know It Is Going Down
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/88a58a209e9d86e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 12:12 am
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:49:56 -0700, Felix D. wrote:

>
> "Curly Surmudgeon" <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
> news:48d577ca$0$22238$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
>
>> Memo to Felix: Google has archived history. Bush didn't consult
>> Congress until after he'd made up his mind then used scare tactics and
>> secrecy to give them only a glimpse at unsupported and fraudulent
>> evidence.
>
> Well, then, if the Dems were so fukken spineless and gullible that they
> never bothered to see if what they were being told was true or not, then
> too bad to all of you on the left. You had your chance and you blew it.

Me, on the left? Fuck off troll.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bush Doctrine: Privatize Profits, Socialize Losses
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
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== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 12:56 am
From: strabo

clams_casino wrote:
> Bert Hyman wrote:
>
>> In news:6jlabuF3u2u4U1@mid.individual.net "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> St Georges Day April 23rd <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism
>>>>> have shattered.
>>>> Shattered? More like blown up.
>>>>
>>> More like imploded.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's amazing that the system has stood as long as it has, having
>>>> been subjected to continuous attack since at least the 1930s.
>>>>
>>>> The US economy operated as well as it did in spite of government
>>>> help, not because of it.
>>> Thats just plain wrong, most obviously with what got it out of the
>>> great depression.
>>
>> As opposed to the government manipulation of the money supply that
>> caused the great depression?
>>
>>
> Greatly unequal distribution of wealth, extreme speculation in the stock
> market with borrowed money and extreme lack of credit / tightening of
> money supply is generally believed to be the prime causes of the
> depression. As the economy tanked, banks were calling in loans,
> resulting in even less money supply / credit which forced the economy to
> tank..
>
> While it's quite unfair to bail out the default mortgages with tax
> payers money, letting the financial community fold is quite a bit like
> the Hoover approach in 1929/1930.
>
> Bailing them out appears to be the lesser of two evils. Yes, expect to
> pay more taxes to cover these losses as they get passed onto the
> government, but what good is not paying those taxes if unemployment
> doubles or triples due to lack of credit and retirement funds drop
> another 50-70%.
>

The crooks get away and the faulty structures remain.

This is just applying a band-aid and postponing a remedy. You'll not be
able to get rid of the problem until the system is collapsed.

>
> No matter who wins the election, there are majors problems ahead.
> Lose credit going into speculative housing in recent years is much
> like the 20's speculation in the stock market. With a number of banks
> folding this year, if banks & financial institutions are forced to call
> back loans, expect a significant downturn in the economy.
> Bailing out AIG will have its pain, but even GW realizes it's the better
> of two evils. Letting AIG go belly up as many conservative republicans
> are wanting is not much different than the Hoover approach that
> decimated the economy for another ten years.

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 3:58 am
From: clams_casino

strabo wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Greatly unequal distribution of wealth, extreme speculation in the
>> stock market with borrowed money and extreme lack of credit /
>> tightening of money supply is generally believed to be the prime
>> causes of the depression. As the economy tanked, banks were calling
>> in loans, resulting in even less money supply / credit which forced
>> the economy to tank..
>>
>> While it's quite unfair to bail out the default mortgages with tax
>> payers money, letting the financial community fold is quite a bit
>> like the Hoover approach in 1929/1930.
>>
>> Bailing them out appears to be the lesser of two evils. Yes, expect
>> to pay more taxes to cover these losses as they get passed onto the
>> government, but what good is not paying those taxes if unemployment
>> doubles or triples due to lack of credit and retirement funds drop
>> another 50-70%.
>
> >
>
> The crooks get away and the faulty structures remain.
>
> This is just applying a band-aid and postponing a remedy. You'll not be
> able to get rid of the problem until the system is collapsed.
>
>
So you favor the Herbert Hoover approach.

Could work. Most likely won't, but hopefully we won't find out the
hard way.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 7:33 am
From: Jeff

Dennis wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:41:34 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:44:49 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 03:28:21 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And as financial giants fall, the leader of the free world watches from
>>>>>> the sidelines ready to give a cheer and an atta boy when the hometown
>>>>>> crowd needs it.
>>>>> And the US Congress, who actually made all the rules that got us into
>>>>> this, adjourns and slinks home, ducking and muttering "Not our
>>>>> fault!".
>>>> You've missed a couple of points.
>>>>
>>>> Congress is not responsible for administering and executing the laws.
>>>> You've got an administration that has been doing everything it could to
>>>> do exactly what it wants. That goes from reinterpreting rules and
>>>> regulations, to signing statements to just plain foot dragging and
>>>> gutting government entities.
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>> http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/envrollbacksreport.pdf
>>>>
>>>> On January 20, 2001, the crowd that was gathered at the Capitol for
>>>> President Bush's
>>>> Inauguration had barely dispersed when the President's Chief of Staff
>>>> Andrew Card took one of
>>>> the most far-reaching and significant steps of the administration's
>>>> early days: he issued a
>>>> directive to all Federal agency heads to immediately freeze the Federal
>>>> regulatory process in its
>>>> tracks. Although couched in terms more familiar to the bureaucracy than
>>>> the citizenry, the so called
>>>> Card memo had the potential to diminish the health and safety of tens of
>>>> millions of
>>>> Americans.
>>>>
>>>> The second point you've missed is that it is the administration that
>>>> sets the agenda, and an intransigent president that does only what he
>>>> wants. It's all perfectly opaque and in some respects criminal.
>>>>
>>>> Now, if you feel that the president has little to do in setting the
>>>> direction of the country, I suggest that you just don't cast a vote for
>>>> that office. Myself, I think it's better to have someone running the
>>>> government that doesn't hate the government.
>>> All this partisan blaming one side over the other is simply a bunch of
>>> crap.
>> I hadn't mentioned one party or the other.
>
> Please don't insult us -- anyone who reads this group knows where your
> politics lie.

I didn't bring it up here. For that matter I have reservations that this
belongs in frugal-living, but this is an informal group.

>
> And (once again) for the record, I support neither the Democrats nor
> the Republicans. In their actions (beyond the rhetoric) I don't think
> there is much difference between the current incarnations of the two
> parties and I think the blame for this financial mess is spread pretty
> evenly.

That's exactly the same kind of thinking that brought us 8 years of
George W Bush. That there was no difference between him and Al Gore or
the parties.
>
>> But this perfect storm could
>> not have been sailed into by a skipper that cared about oversight and
>> fiscal discipline. Just another trillion dollar unneeded expense to go
>> with the Iraq war and the medicare cost explosion whose real value was
>> carefully hidden in the wee hours of the night.
>
> Both items you mention were championed by the president and passed by
> Congress. In particular, declaration of war is specifically called
> out by the Constitution as Congress's job and members of both parties
> passed the buck and wrote the president a blank check.

The evidence is beyond strong that the WH manipulated the evidence. Go
read some of the books by White House insiders.

>
> Again, for the record, I oppose both items you mention.
>
>> I do not defend anything the president did or didn't do. I'm
>>> simply saying that with our form of government being what it is, there
>>> is plenty of blame to go around. Congress makes the laws, and it was
>>> Congress that insisted that the rules be loosened so that minorities
>>> and low-income people would have better access to loans, regardless
>>> of their ability to pay it back. So "It's not our fault!" doesn't
>>> fly.
>> Trickle down does not work. Propping up trickle down with cheap money
>> and an attitude that capital markets will forget greed and act sensibly
>> has lead to this fiasco.
>>
>> Congress has always had the same faults. This presidents faults will
>> be duly noted for generations.
>
> I agree that the administration should be held accountable. I also
> hope that the vacuum of leadership in a crisis shown by the spineless
> Congress with sniveling statements like "It's not our fault!" (Nancy
> Pelosi) and "Nobody knows what to do!" (Harry Reid) get noted in the
> history books as well.

I have no fondness for either. But you may as well put some context
in it.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, asked today what new regulatory
actions Congress can take, said, bluntly, "No one knows what to do. We
are in new territory here. This is a different game. We're not here
playing soccer, basketball or football, this is a new game and we're
going to have to figure out how to do it."

A Reid spokesman said neither Treasury Secretary Paulson nor Fed
Chairman Ben Bernanke offered up any suggestions for new regulatory
legislation when they met with Reid in the Capitol building Tuesday
night, either.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/senate-majority.html

BTW, that housing bill you put so much blame on was written by McCain
financial adviser Phil Gramm

And he seemed to forget how he voted on a now-controversial bill that
largely de-regulated the financial services industry in 1999. It was
written by Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas, who has since retired and is a
McCain economic adviser. And Democrats, including Reid, opposed the bill
when it first passed the Senate with 54 votes.

Irregardless of what laws were written this crisis is due to a
systematic destruction of oversight by this administration. And the
party that rails against regulation and oversight is the Republican Party.

Jeff

>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
> the voters are below average intelligence.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 7:43 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

> Irregardless of what laws were written this crisis is due to a
>systematic destruction of oversight by this administration. And the
>party that rails against regulation and oversight is the Republican Party.
>
Paulson, who is pushing the huge bailout, is certainly a man with the
common touch and a certain disinterested viewpoint.
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/43xRFhd1RRlnqg1H1BkmTP4?siteid=google&dist=TNMostMailed

He left Goldman-Sachs with $500 million in stocks in his pocket..
How sweet it is.

--Vic

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:13 am
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 06:58:28 -0400, clams_casino wrote:

> strabo wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Greatly unequal distribution of wealth, extreme speculation in the
>>> stock market with borrowed money and extreme lack of credit /
>>> tightening of money supply is generally believed to be the prime causes
>>> of the depression. As the economy tanked, banks were calling in
>>> loans, resulting in even less money supply / credit which forced the
>>> economy to tank..
>>>
>>> While it's quite unfair to bail out the default mortgages with tax
>>> payers money, letting the financial community fold is quite a bit like
>>> the Hoover approach in 1929/1930.
>>>
>>> Bailing them out appears to be the lesser of two evils. Yes, expect to
>>> pay more taxes to cover these losses as they get passed onto the
>>> government, but what good is not paying those taxes if unemployment
>>> doubles or triples due to lack of credit and retirement funds drop
>>> another 50-70%.
>>
>>
>> >
>> The crooks get away and the faulty structures remain.
>>
>> This is just applying a band-aid and postponing a remedy. You'll not be
>> able to get rid of the problem until the system is collapsed.
>>
>>
> So you favor the Herbert Hoover approach.
>
> Could work. Most likely won't, but hopefully we won't find out the hard
> way.

When faced with two bad choices it's folly to select the unknown. Bailing
out the robber barons, without any guarantee of stability, wihtout knowing
the exposure or cost, is the wrong choice.

It's better to bite the bullet now than to grant an unknown amount public
money.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:21 am
From: almostcutmyhairtoday@yahoo.com

On Sep 21, 3:12 am, Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:49:56 -0700, Felix D. wrote:
>
> > "Curly Surmudgeon" <curlysurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
> >news:48d577ca$0$22238$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
>
> >> Memo to Felix: Google has archived history. Bush didn't consult
> >> Congress until after he'd made up his mind then used scare tactics and
> >> secrecy to give them only a glimpse at unsupported and fraudulent
> >> evidence.
>
> > Well, then, if the Dems were so fukken spineless and gullible that they
> > never bothered to see if what they were being told was true or not, then
> > too bad to all of you on the left. You had your chance and you blew it.
>
> Me, on the left? Fuck off troll.
>
> --
> Regards, Curly

Curly is a huge lefty. While he runs a scam on here trying to get
republicans to vote for Bobb Barr, he constantly apologizes for
Obama. He'll vote Obama in the election.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 12:09 pm
From: "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org>

"Curly Surmudgeon" <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
news:48d5f41e$0$22179$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:49:56 -0700, Felix D. wrote:
>
>>
>> "Curly Surmudgeon" <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
>> news:48d577ca$0$22238$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
>>
>>> Memo to Felix: Google has archived history. Bush didn't consult
>>> Congress until after he'd made up his mind then used scare tactics and
>>> secrecy to give them only a glimpse at unsupported and fraudulent
>>> evidence.
>>
>> Well, then, if the Dems were so fukken spineless and gullible that they
>> never bothered to see if what they were being told was true or not, then
>> too bad to all of you on the left. You had your chance and you blew it.
>
> Me, on the left? Fuck off troll.

Laugh laugh laugh

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 12:19 pm
From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com

On Sep 21, 2:13 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 06:58:28 -0400, clams_casino wrote:
> > strabo wrote:
>
> >>> Greatly unequal distribution of wealth, extreme speculation in the
> >>> stock market with borrowed money and extreme lack of credit /
> >>> tightening of money supply is generally believed to be the prime causes
> >>> of the depression. As the economy tanked, banks were calling in
> >>> loans, resulting in even less money supply / credit which forced the
> >>> economy to tank..
>
> >>> While it's quite unfair to bail out the default mortgages with tax
> >>> payers money, letting the financial community fold is quite a bit like
> >>> the Hoover approach in 1929/1930.
>
> >>> Bailing them out appears to be the lesser of two evils. Yes, expect to
> >>> pay more taxes to cover these losses as they get passed onto the
> >>> government, but what good is not paying those taxes if unemployment
> >>> doubles or triples due to lack of credit and retirement funds drop
> >>> another 50-70%.
>
> >> The crooks get away and the faulty structures remain.
>
> >> This is just applying a band-aid and postponing a remedy. You'll not be
> >> able to get rid of the problem until the system is collapsed.
>
> > So you favor the Herbert Hoover approach.
>
> > Could work. Most likely won't, but hopefully we won't find out the hard
> > way.
>
> When faced with two bad choices it's folly to select the unknown.

Barack vs McCain... or who? Bobb Barr???

Yes, yes. I now see what you mean.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving a bear attack
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6fc0d7e660741dbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 4:58 am
From: "Dan O'Connell"

"James" <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:f2708070-fbb6-41cf-8e7b-5c98a32aea2b@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 14, 4:11 pm, "Ryan Robbins" <redbird...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "James" <jl...@idirect.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7d1443cf-5c90-441e-a666-cdfaf6508b89@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 12, 8:35 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >The advice that these professionals give is this: fight. Your only
> >chance is to convince the bear you are not worth the effort.
>
> That won't work with a grizzly. In fact, it will likely get you killed.

Are you suggesting that not fighting is preferable?
>
> >They will huff and
> >snort and paw.
>
> Those behaviors are nervous responses, not acts of aggression or
precursors
> to an attack. In most cases, a black bear that attacks gives no warning.
>
A black bear who attacks you to eat you, gives no warning true. A
black bear who thinks you are too close to his food, or his den, or
his cub, will generally try to scare you off.

Of the bear attacks in Ontario, very few have been without warning.

> >The more dangerous bears are those who scavange campgrounds for food
> >and become used to human presense. They lose their fear of humans, and
> >if they are truly hungry can't be scared from a food source like a
> >cooler.
>
> Although this belief is widespread, the evidence is far from conclusive.

Well feel free to speculate, I've tried to scare away a habituated
bear, I've talked to people who do this for a living. The bear I
couldn't scare away was killed, by park wardens, who had consulted
with naturalists. Those same naturalists have stated that when the see
wild black bears that have little contact with humans, they generally
run. You are much more likely to see a bear at a dump or near a
campsite than in the wild.

James

Kayaking in Glacier Bay for 12 days last July (solo)...saw 23 Grizzlies and
no black bears (glacial...no trees=no black bears...only alder). At Russel
Island was greeted by one or more at each attempt to land...forced into a
four mile ocean crossing into the fog at night. I have pictures
(nervous...taken quickly/forgot to focus!:) of four approaching to within
thirty yards of me once AFTER I landed by Johns Hopkins Glacier. They all
seemed bored (but watched me continuously) with me after they all first
stood up to check me out...no plan B on my part...no gun...no pepper sparay.
Kayakdan...from MN

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 7:03 am
From: Patriot Games

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:47:32 GMT, chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief
Thracian) wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:48:11 -0400, Patriot Games
><Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>>news.germany.com
>>news.k-dsl.de = Cologne, Germany.
>Yes, because I use an inexpensive news server out of Germany, I MUST
>be German, huh? You are so stoooopid! Here's two other servers I use:
>nyc.newsgroups-download.com
>phoenix.newsgroups-download.com

Are you claiming to have sucked every dick in Germany?

No? Then turn off your computer and get back to work, fag.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 7:17 am
From: Patriot Games

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:49:35 GMT, "Ryan Robbins"
<redbird007@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.Com> wrote in message
>news:b4aad417iehparrkcrmq02itm8dc4c0f3e@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:13:54 GMT, "Ryan Robbins"
>> <redbird007@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.Com> wrote in message
>>>news:fsjqc49hve0nig0mhufgocetllf0ukepij@4ax.com...
>>>> Also, even though bears can sprint much faster than a person they
>>>> CANNOT run downhill.
>>>FALSE!
>> Its true. They tumble when they run downhill.
>You can believe that all you want, but you'd continue to be wrong.

The burden is on YOU, fag.

Prove me wrong:

"...people say you should run downhill because when a bear chases a
person running downhill the bear will lose its balance and tumble
'head over heals' down the hill allowing you to escape."
http://www.johnsesl.com/templates/reading/smokymountains/bear.html

"Village folk always advise me to run downhill if chased by a bear."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1227/p22s02-hfes.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Misc Grocery Shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f3f2c0470017f630?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 5:57 am
From: George

Twice Retired wrote:
> There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> results:
> 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> 2. Small local $31.62
> 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
> Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
> Each one of us has to make our own decision as to shopping. I would not
> rule out W-M for all items but I may be selective as to purchases.
>
Whats a "snob grocery"?

I don't find anything like that here. There are a large regional chain
and a large family owned Italian market where we buy our groceries. I
have compared a number of times with wally and I don't see any
difference to write home about. Plus I don't care for adulterated or
poor quality meat products. Walmart meats are pumped up with
preservatives and water. I can buy fresh real meat at great prices at
the other places. If I want say sausage Walmart offers total garbage
like that Hillshire stuff. I can but freshly made good quality sausage
at the other place at a similar price instead.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 10:55 am
From: val189

On Sep 21, 8:57 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Whats a "snob grocery"?
.

I know all about snob markets. It's a place in an affluent town where
no one looks at prices, lots of fancy cocktail party items, good wine
selection, imported cheeses, nothing but BMWs in the lot, plenty of
kids to schlep to your car, and you can run a monthly tab and get
billed later. .I used to shop at one strictly for convenience. It was
an independent store, owned by a family, and catered to the
wellheeled. But, their meat was top notch and the produce decent.I
was sorry to see them close, but the big chains won in the end.

When I was kid, we could drop a list of nonperishables at a local
grocer, and pick it up in a cart later in the day. Talk about
service. Don't get me started on the milk delivery, the fish truck
which ran around on Friday, a converted schoolbus which delivered
produce throught the streets, the bakeries who came to the house with
a basket of pastries and breads.........had an egg man who delivered
fresh from the farm - you almost didn't have to leave the house except
for canned goods and meat.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: Two New eBay Listings - Auctions End 9/25
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f7a02e148a9fee2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 8:05 am
From: ClothesOut

Check out the items I just listed yesterday:
- 5-pc. Video Game Bundle w/Wireless Controller (PS3 & GBA) - $90
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300260341930

- Used Boys Soul Taker Halloween Costume (sz. 10-12) - $14.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300260394483

Auctions end on Thursday, September 25th. If these items don't appeal
to you, consider telling one of your friends.

- visuals4u

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap sale airmax shoes in (www.cncircle.cn)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/80aed45ed5afb360?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 8:39 am
From: sourcesoso4@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Radiant Floor heating - nonliquid?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b2399bf8e581df6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 10:57 am
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

I see a lot of "Radiant Floor Heating" with a rubbery tubing stapled under
the floor. SInce I tend to be in horror of any kind of leaks, I wonder why
they don't use some compresses gas instead?

Mind you, I have even had experience with central venting "leaking": I
haven't used a/c since my folks died but my uncle's a/c duct sweats onto my
ceiling. That's the price for freeloading (hot air rises) off his a/c.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:45 am
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

<vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
news:gb61u0$4vh$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
> I see a lot of "Radiant Floor Heating" with a rubbery tubing stapled under
> the floor. SInce I tend to be in horror of any kind of leaks, I wonder why
> they don't use some compresses gas instead?
>
> Mind you, I have even had experience with central venting "leaking": I
> haven't used a/c since my folks died but my uncle's a/c duct sweats onto
> my
> ceiling. That's the price for freeloading (hot air rises) off his a/c.

Gas does not transmit heat very well. Gas is often used as an insulator to
prevent thermal transfer, not to enhance it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Watching The NFL Can Be Really Disgusting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04744c1b61cd4c14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:06 am
From: here@home (A Liberal's Worst Nightmare)

Wall-to-wall commercials. Guy kicks extra point. Multiple
commercials. Team then kicks off. Multiple commercials. Then on 1st
down, QB completes pass for a 6-yard gain. Oops, another commercial
break. What the fuck!? Nobody on the field called a time-out!

I can recall when an NFL game averaged 2 hrs. and 15 minutes, and you
would see most of the halftime show. Hey, I'd defend capitalism with
my life, but the way pro sports has given in to greed, I'd be
deliriously happy to see pro sports collapse.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal HDTV (Pocket LCD 1" BW?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2779d19f66d2bd16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:35 am
From: Bennett Price

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I watch TV half an hour a month and don't care much for it. I have
> three pocket 1" BW LCD TVs and I'm looking for the cheapest way to get
> HDTV after February. If I had to pay more than fifty bucks I would
> forego TV altogether.
>

Portable was not one of the original poster's requirements. A battery-
operable, fairly small, coupon-eligible converter is here:
> http://www.artec.com.tw/ehtm/products/t3a.htm
(External battery pack needed; comes with a 120 vac --> 12 vdc xformer)

Coupons available here: > https://www.dtv2009.gov/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:52 am
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <gb2cau$779$1@reader1.panix.com>,
<vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote:
>I can't seem to find "portable dtv"

Try "dtv portable" to narrow your search a bit.

>THe closest thing is combo protable DVD and DTV

Try:

http://www.lcddigital.tv/

or:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2855063&cp=&sr=1&kw=portable+tv&origkw=portable+tv&parentPage=search

I dont see anything wrong with a combo DTV/DTV player; you just have a
bit more flexibility.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you still do your own oil change?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00739344169b1364?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:35 am
From: remod

On Sep 7, 3:32 pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I keep saying to myself I'm too old to do it just to save 5 bucks.
> However every time they have a special on oil and filters I get
> another batch.

It's too easy to do to pay someone $15 to do it. Further, those oil
change places often rip you off in using cheap oil and not letting the
old oil drain completely. They want you gone quickly, to get the next
car in.

Getting under the car is good exercise too. Make sure you WATCH the
next time you get the oil changed, so you can see where everything is
and how handy it is.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Senior's view of this current request for a financial bailout.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ea338bf36eb6d60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 11:56 am
From: SeniorARK

Sunmitted for Seniors by : Robert Fassbach, editor, www.SeniorArk.com
Saturday, September 20, 2008

I once heard Rush Limbaugh characterize Americans who needed
assistance from the state, as "human debris". I never trusted
anything
he ever said after that. Those of us who believe that humans have
been
created in the image of God, know there is no such thing as "human
debris". Most of those with no faith, must also have recoiled at such
a description.

And now we hear the corporate world squealing for state assistance---
on a massive scale. Are these entities also "debris", and if so, why
are the American taxpayers being asked to make up their losses? Do
those who look down their noses at the human in need, support meeting
the corporate need? Why should those who are struggling to fill their
gas tanks, get medical treatment for their children, and put
reasonably priced food on their tables, bail out the stock market,
banks, and insurance giants? As they sew, they reap, right? Wrong,
when it comes to the financial world. Our representatives are
preparing to flood them with money, propping up the markets, and
covering their irresponsible behavior. The reason we will be given
is;
things for us lowly folks will get measurably worse if we don't. We
don't know if this is true or not. Is it real, or a phony "weapon of
mass destruction" to prop up the greedy. I have emailed both of my
Senators, and my Representative this Saturday morning asking this
very
question. You may want to do the same. I asked them not to be
panicked
into some massive giveaway, if it is the wrong thing to do.

So, those who would have urged denying a few billion to get childcare
for working mothers, or closing the doughnut hole for needy Seniors,
or funds to repair our crumbling infrastructure, are now themselves
pleading for hundreds of billions, or is it a trillion, or so. All to
cover the mistakes fueled by riotous greed.

McCain style deregulation has come home to roost. Our leaders must
make sure that enough safeguards are instituted, that this can never
be inflicted on the American people again. Yesterday, on a TV
business
channel, I heard a business leader say something like, "We are
willing
to have some traffic lights, but don't put cameras on them." His
point
seemed to be, you can regulate us now, but don't watch us. A perfect
recipe for the next crisis. Business will NOT regulate itself. Our
Congress has a great load on their shoulders this weekend.

==============================================================================

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Sunday, September 21, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest