misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:
* The back lash begins - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* Hot Sale!!! 2009 High quality cheap wholesale LV Shoes at www.fjrjtrade.com <
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* Opposition to health care not about race. It's about stupidity - 5 messages,
3 authors
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* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GROWING PAINS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - 1 messages, 1 author
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* does taking from recycling container = stealing? - 3 messages, 3 authors
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* Free shipping Cheap Wholesale LV Handbag, Jimmy Choo,Miumiu Real Leather
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* No gift giving this Christmas... - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* "Promote the general welfare" means what it says - 8 messages, 1 author
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* Black Friday Deals: Buy the Right PC, Not the Cheapest - 1 messages, 1
author
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The back lash begins
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/23ad85f93e968a1d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 11:00 pm
From: "sr"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018003/climategate-five-aussie-mps-lead-the-way-by-resigning-in-disgust-over-carbon-tax/
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:01 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
In article <1ec28$4b0f7949$ccb58416$22632@ispn.net>,
sr <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:
>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018003/climategate-five-aussie-mps-lead-the-way-by-resigning-in-disgust-over-carbon-tax/
Yes, the truth really is inconvenient, isn't it? Wonder what all the
lib media is going to do when they finally realize just how badly
they've been deceived by these frauds...
Gary
--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.
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TOPIC: Opposition to health care not about race. It's about stupidity
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/28531844efc1bbfe?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:03 am
From: Michael Coburn
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:47:19 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
>> >> What passed the House is pretty good.
>> >
>> > What do you like about it? The fact that nobody will be able to keep
>> > their current insurance coverage?
>>
>> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to lie,
>> and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about the
>> lying.
>
> It's not a lie, though. The House bill specifies coverage levels. What
> this means is that nobody will be able to keep their current policy. At
> the very least, if you have health insurance, you will be required to
> switch to a different (read: more expensive) plan with your current
> provider.
Nope. You're a liar. For insurance plans through employers the
grandfathering ends after 5 years but the personal plans remain
unmolested. For the employer plans there is a 5 year grandfathering last
time I looked and that phase doesn't start till 2013. That means you can
keep your ridiculous employer crap until 2018 with no penalty at all. By
that time the laws will probably be changed twice.
Read the @##)$^& bill. It's section 202. You are a liar.
>> > The fact that coverage levels are
>> > specified (read: rationing) by the government?
>>
>> Yes! I very much like the idea that government will be regulating
>> snake oil and that a package that says "Health Insurance" on it must
>> actually contain health insurance.
>
> What is currently called health insurance is way too fricking expensive
> for many people to afford. While there is some merit in trying to
> improve coverage, adding more coverage without addressing the COST of
> current coverage is simply insane.
The cost is a addressed through subsidies that are paid by taxation on
incomes above a million a year. Stop whining and lying. The reason that
Mass. Health insurance is so expensive is that it is NOT subsidized by a
tax on the rich. You are a liar.
>> > The fact that it's
>> > going to bankrupt our country?
>>
>> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to lie,
>> and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about the
>> lying.
>
> OK, then tell me...how are we going to be able to afford a 2+ trillion
> dollar entitlement program? Before you answer, keep in mind that the
> CBO has a nasty habit of under-estimating costs of such things by a
> factor of 10 or more. So add another zero or two and then tell me how
> you expect us (the taxpayers) to pay for it. And again remember that
> there are only about 160 million taxpayers.
The CBO has told you lying pigs that the bill will _REDUCE_ the deficit.
The Democrats say it will _REDUCE_ the deficit. Seems like the only
liars are the same lying filth Republicans that have been lying filth for
the last 30 years and are still lying filth and will be lying filth
henceforth.
>> But I must admit that the Republicans certainly do have the experience
>> edge on this "bankrupt the country" stuff. You lying sacks of tax
>> cutting shit have been doing it since Reagan.
We note the absence of a response to this undeniable TRUTH.
>> > The fact that it's going to send a
>> > significant percentage of honest citizens to prison when they can't
>> > afford to pay for it?
>>
>> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to lie,
>> and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about the
>> lying.
>>
>> But maybe it isn't a lie. Maybe you really are the stone cold stupid.
>
> Did you read the bill?
Yes, you lying pig. And you obviously didn't.
> There are significant penalties assessed to
> those who can't afford to buy the new mandatory health insurance. These
> penalties include both fines and jail time. So no, it isn't a lie.
NO, lying sack of Republican pig shit. The bill will assess a fine on
people who are financially capable of purchasing insurance and who refuse
to do so. That is the end of the bill. There are _NO_ penalties other
than a fine in the bill. If you refuse to pay federal taxes you COULD go
to jail. That has always been as such for many many years and the bill
does NOTHING to change the IRS code. NOTHING.
>> > The fact that it does nothing to address the real problem of
>> > skyrocketing medical costs?
>>
>> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to lie,
>> and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about the
>> lying.
>
> So you think that medical care in the United States is affordable?
> Really?
NO, you lying sack of Republican pig shit. I never said that.
>> The Public Option in conjunction with Medicare and Medicaid will, in
>> fact, reduce the cost of provider services -- "control skyrocketing
>> medical costs."
>
> If the government can't keep medicare or medicaid solvent, what makes
> you think that a public option will control costs?
Why do you have the insane idea that the government cant keep Medicare
solvent??? That is abject stupidity on steroids. The government can
increase Medicare taxes and the government can cut what it is willing to
pay to providers. Only Republican morons believe they can keep the
common people of the USA from supporting Medicare via their continued
lies and more lies. You need to go bag some more tea.
> The public option
> will certainly harm the bottom line of many private insurance companies.
> Many of the private insurance companies might be driven out of
> business. But being cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to cheap. The
> public option is (at best) a ponzi scheme.
Just one lie after the next. On and on and on and on. The phrase "Ponzi
scheme" has become a Satan word like "socialism", or "communism", or
"fascism" for the Republican brain dead. The words are all equal and are
used to paint something as "bad". The words and phrases need not
actually mean anything as is the case here. The Public Option is a non-
profit non subsidized health insurance provider that is totally funded by
premiums paid in by willing subscribers just like any other competing
insurance company. But you idiotic brain dead morons love the phrase
"Ponzi scheme" soooooooo much that you MUST use it to paint "BAD" on the
Public Option that has no resemblance whatsoever. And it doesn't matter
because the people you are addressing with your lying filth are to
ignorant to know the word definitions anyway.
If health insurance is
> cheaper, but your taxes are higher to cover it, did you really save
> money? Nope, costs are still going up, and now there are fewer health
> insurance providers.
Depends on the numbers. You don't offer any. Your argument always gets
down to your religious conviction that government can NEVER do anything
good other than make wars. And you monkeys do love wars.
>> > The fact that it also does
>> > nothing to fix the problem of frivolous medical lawsuits?
>>
>> It also does nothing to end the war, establish world peace, arrest all
>> illegal aliens, and send a thanksgiving dinner to the moon.
>
> The primary problems with health care are skyrocketing costs and
> frivolous lawsuits, partly responsible for skyrocketing costs. A bill
> that does nothing to address these basic issues is useless.
Another lie. The bill need not address law suits to reduce the costs of
medical care. You say "partly responsible". That ADMITS to other
"parts". And reducing the costs of those other parts will reduce costs
of the whole without messing with lawsuits. Such a bill is only
"useless" to pea brained idiot blind Republican liars.
>> > What is so
>> > good about it?
>>
>> The NUMBER ONE good is:
>> It moves the burden for indigent care from the middle class insurance
>> premium payers to the rich with incomes greater than a million a year.
>> By subsidizing insurance for those who currently depend on "free" care
>> that is then cost shifted to the middle class insurance buyers, the
>> bill reduces the cost of medical insurance for the middle class. Those
>> who had to rely on "free" care will now be covered by insurance that is
>> subsidized by the rich and less "FREE" care will be shifted onto the
>> middle class.
>
> No, the burden is shifted to low-income younger people, roughly 30 years
> old and younger.
Yet another lie. Low income people will be subsidized. That is the
purpose of the bill. You are a liar. And if there is a cost shift from
old to young then the young will get a refund when they get older. You
people have less foresight than a mole. Your "vision" of the future is
next week.
> The House bill relies on getting more "healthy" people
> (read: younger, lower income) to subsidize health care for older folks
> who use more health care services.
So do you think all the young people will die before age 55 and never see
any advantage of the system? Republicans see maybe a year into the
future and after that the world ends:
We believe in science when the word of God agrees
We believe in science that destroys our enemies
We know the end is coming and it's coming with great haste
And everything we don't ab-use will surely go to waste
THE REPUBLICAN 10 YEAR PLAN
> Meanwhile, taxes will be raised on
> everybody, including the middle class and the "rich".
Yet another lie. Future tax adjustments have absolutely _NOTHING_ to do
with the health care bill. _NOTHING_. But we can all rest assured that
any attempt to pay down the deficit EVEN FURTHER THAN IT WILL BE PAID
DOWN BY The Health care plan by raising taxes will be assaulted by you
lying pigs in just this manner.
Taxes are probably going up because we need deficit reduction. The
deficit _WILL_NOT_ be increased by this bill and future tax increases
have _NOTHING_ to do with this bill.
THIS BILL increases taxes on the rich to subsidize health insurance for
lower income people. THAT US WHAT _THIS_ BILL DOES! Your lying pig
claims to the contrary are noted.
> The fact that you think the rich will carry the burden makes you either
> severely misinformed, or the spreader of a very dangerous lie. -Dave
You are a lying sack of miserable pig shit. The Bill says I am right and
you are a liar. Try reading it.
--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:12 am
From: Michael Coburn
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:50:34 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
>> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand what is in
>> the Senate bill. That is their job. That is what they were elected to
>> do. Putting the actual bill on line is ridiculous in that the vast
>> majority of the people who access to it are incapable of understanding
>> it.
>
> It is that kind of arrogance that makes the average citizen fuming mad,
NO!
It's the sort of reality that makes ignorant asswipes angry in that they
want to love in the 19th century and drive buggies and ride horses.
> and why the tea parties are gaining in popularity.
Oh pleas keep it up. Please, please, please......
> Not only does the
> average citizen understand it, the average citizen is MIGHTY PISSED OFF
> BY IT. They wouldn't be so fucking angry if they were just scratching
> their heads thinking, "What does that mean?" -Dave
The only people that are upset are a bunch of semi-literate screech
monkeys. The "average citizens" find summaries like the ones I posted
before from sources that are not right wing noise machines. The
summaries are easily understood and truthful. That have to be. If they
are not then major shit will hit the fan. Republicans spent YEARS
undermining government and lying to everyone and they expect to "cash in"
on the lack of faith they worked so hard to engender. Maybe you lying
pigs will get away with it with some of the people.
--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 6:01 am
From: George
Michael Coburn wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:59:44 -0500, George wrote:
>
>> Michael Coburn wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:17:08 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:35:05 -0500
>>>> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <HMmdndq9N4R0Qk7XnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>>>> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's about preventing the government from wrecking health care and
>>>>>> access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist looters who
>>>>>> say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>>>>> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>>>>> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>>>>> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>>>>> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care such
>>>>> as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>>>> So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What passed
>>>> the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car off a
>>>> cliff. -Dave
>>> What passed the House is pretty good. The Senate is doing all it can
>>> to poison it.
>>>
>> This is a serious question. You would know that how? I doubt anyone can
>> understand the 2000 pages of mostly incomprehensible writing with
>> thousands of references.
>
> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand what is in
> the Senate bill. That is their job. That is what they were elected to
> do. Putting the actual bill on line is ridiculous in that the vast
> majority of the people who access to it are incapable of understanding
> it. Each Senator has a staff of individuals that go through that bill
> with a fine tooth comb and who know the references or can easily find
> them. Each Senator is therefore acutely aware of the ramifications of
> the bill.
>
>> I will give Congress credit for something when they can deliver a bill
>> in about 12 pages with clear and concise tables defining the scope and
>> conditions allowing anyone to interpret their work.
>
> The House bill is well summarized on line.
>
> http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-
> DETAILEDSUMMARY-102909.pdf
>
> The Senate bill is compared here :
> http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/11/18/cbo-senate-bill/
>
>> They should be totally embarrassed about the quality of their work
>> product. They are insulting their employers (us) and deserve not to be
>> rehired in the next election.
>
> We observe your moronic childishness and recognize that you are a
> Republican.
>
Perhaps you need to read what an ad hominem attack is? I am guessing you
imagine yourself as some sort of uber intellectual but just proved
otherwise..
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 10:20 am
From: Michael Coburn
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:01:14 -0500, George wrote:
> Michael Coburn wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:59:44 -0500, George wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Coburn wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:17:08 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:35:05 -0500
>>>>> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <HMmdndq9N4R0Qk7XnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>>>>> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's about preventing the government from wrecking health care and
>>>>>>> access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist looters
>>>>>>> who say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>>>>>> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>>>>>> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>>>>>> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>>>>>> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care such
>>>>>> as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>>>>> So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What passed
>>>>> the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car off a
>>>>> cliff. -Dave
>>>> What passed the House is pretty good. The Senate is doing all it can
>>>> to poison it.
>>>>
>>> This is a serious question. You would know that how? I doubt anyone
>>> can understand the 2000 pages of mostly incomprehensible writing with
>>> thousands of references.
>>
>> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand what is in
>> the Senate bill. That is their job. That is what they were elected to
>> do. Putting the actual bill on line is ridiculous in that the vast
>> majority of the people who access to it are incapable of understanding
>> it. Each Senator has a staff of individuals that go through that bill
>> with a fine tooth comb and who know the references or can easily find
>> them. Each Senator is therefore acutely aware of the ramifications of
>> the bill.
>>
>>> I will give Congress credit for something when they can deliver a bill
>>> in about 12 pages with clear and concise tables defining the scope and
>>> conditions allowing anyone to interpret their work.
>>
>> The House bill is well summarized on line.
>>
>> http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-
>> DETAILEDSUMMARY-102909.pdf
>>
>> The Senate bill is compared here :
>> http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/11/18/cbo-senate-bill/
>>
>>> They should be totally embarrassed about the quality of their work
>>> product. They are insulting their employers (us) and deserve not to be
>>> rehired in the next election.
>>
>> We observe your moronic childishness and recognize that you are a
>> Republican.
>>
> Perhaps you need to read what an ad hominem attack is? I am guessing you
> imagine yourself as some sort of uber intellectual but just proved
> otherwise..
I have called it as it is. Childishness seems to be the Republican
condition.
--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:40 am
From: freeisbest
On Nov 27, 4:12 am, Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:50:34 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
> >> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand
> >> what is in the Senate bill. That is their job. That is what they
> >> were elected to do. Putting the actual bill on line is
ridiculous
> >> in that the vast majority of the people who access to it are
> >> incapable of understanding it.
>
> > It is that kind of arrogance that makes the average citizen
fuming mad,
>
> NO!
> It's the sort of reality that makes ignorant asswipes angry in that they
> want to live in the 19th century and drive buggies and ride horses.
>
> > and why the tea parties are gaining in popularity.
>
> Oh please keep it up. Please, please, please......
>
> > Not only does the average citizen understand it, the average
> > citizen is MIGHTY PISSED OFF BY IT. They wouldn't be
> > so fucking angry if they were just scratching
> > their heads thinking, "What does that mean?" -Dave
>
> The only people that are upset are a bunch of semi-literate screech
> monkeys. The "average citizens" find summaries like the ones I posted
> before from sources that are not right wing noise machines. The
> summaries are easily understood and truthful. That have to be. If they
> are not then major shit will hit the fan. Republicans spent YEARS
> undermining government and lying to everyone and they expect to "cash in"
> on the lack of faith they worked so hard to engender. Maybe you lying
> pigs will get away with it with some of the people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent summary. These professional liars are contemptible,
they know it, and they spend a lot of time explaining away why they've
chosen to be scum. Luckily the incoherent stupidity of the Repub base
is not typical of the American majority... including the many, many
folks who used to vote Repub but who wised up during the Bush
Disaster.
Repubs have spent so many years working to undermine our
government that they're starting to fantasize that the job is done.
Right now their meme is that all they can grab power away from our
elected government by issuing orders to their Mickey Mouse brigade of
teapartiers.
> "Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
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TOPIC: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GROWING PAINS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ea15b76c2c30b964?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 4:29 am
From: Ronnie Atkins
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~~~***~~~
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>>> http://web-paradise.cn/page/growing-pains <<<
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: does taking from recycling container = stealing?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/98b1eee3d4cad100?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 7:52 am
From: Ohioguy
I was out banging on the exhaust pipe of our van, testing to make
sure the pipe was in good shape, when I saw a guy stop by our trash cans
and city recycling containers. He took an old blender out of our trash
(I had already removed the copper wire windings), and also took some
items from our recycling containers. I'm not worried about the trash -
I've always felt that as long as people aren't taking any personal
papers, they are welcome to anything else - especially since they have
to brave loads of dirty diapers in our dumpsters.
However, the recycling containers are a different story. My
understanding is that the city gets some $$ from the aluminum, etc.,
which are put in there, and that $$ helps keep our cost for waste
collection from going up. If these guys are going around and taking the
aluminum out of the recycling containers, doesn't that take $$ away from
the city, and ultimately make us pay higher rates?
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 10:26 am
From: Michael Black
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, Ohioguy wrote:
> I was out banging on the exhaust pipe of our van, testing to make sure the
> pipe was in good shape, when I saw a guy stop by our trash cans and city
> recycling containers. He took an old blender out of our trash (I had already
> removed the copper wire windings), and also took some items from our
> recycling containers. I'm not worried about the trash - I've always felt
> that as long as people aren't taking any personal papers, they are welcome to
> anything else - especially since they have to brave loads of dirty diapers in
> our dumpsters.
>
> However, the recycling containers are a different story. My understanding
> is that the city gets some $$ from the aluminum, etc., which are put in
> there, and that $$ helps keep our cost for waste collection from going up.
> If these guys are going around and taking the aluminum out of the recycling
> containers, doesn't that take $$ away from the city, and ultimately make us
> pay higher rates?
>
There's a kid around here who's started a "business" collecting cans from
rcycling bins, acting like he's doing the world a favor, and of course
then taking them to the store for the deposit.
His promotion is false, since it at first glance sounds like he's doing a
good thing. But, some years back there was a story in the paper that can
recycling was going too well, so many cans were brought back that they
weren't able to fund it properly. They were counting on a certain
percentage of cans to not be returned, and that money went to paying for
the whole process.
Cans and bottles with deposits that go right into the recycling bins,
that leaves the 5cents for the whole recycling process, yet still does
what the deposit is about, keeping the cans from littering the sides
of highways, and keep them out of landfill.
So in trying to earn his five cents, the kid is actually doing a bad
deed.
Michael
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 12:47 pm
From: Rick Merrill
Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, Ohioguy wrote:
>
>> I was out banging on the exhaust pipe of our van, testing to make
>> sure the pipe was in good shape, when I saw a guy stop by our trash
>> cans and city recycling containers. He took an old blender out of our
>> trash (I had already removed the copper wire windings), and also took
>> some items from our recycling containers. I'm not worried about the
>> trash - I've always felt that as long as people aren't taking any
>> personal papers, they are welcome to anything else - especially since
>> they have to brave loads of dirty diapers in our dumpsters.
>>
>> However, the recycling containers are a different story. My
>> understanding is that the city gets some $$ from the aluminum, etc.,
>> which are put in there, and that $$ helps keep our cost for waste
>> collection from going up. If these guys are going around and taking
>> the aluminum out of the recycling containers, doesn't that take $$
>> away from the city, and ultimately make us pay higher rates?
>>
> There's a kid around here who's started a "business" collecting cans from
> rcycling bins, acting like he's doing the world a favor, and of course
> then taking them to the store for the deposit.
>
> His promotion is false, since it at first glance sounds like he's doing
> a good thing. But, some years back there was a story in the paper that
> can recycling was going too well, so many cans were brought back that
> they weren't able to fund it properly. They were counting on a certain
> percentage of cans to not be returned, and that money went to paying for
> the whole process.
>
> Cans and bottles with deposits that go right into the recycling bins,
> that leaves the 5cents for the whole recycling process, yet still does
> what the deposit is about, keeping the cans from littering the sides
> of highways, and keep them out of landfill.
>
> So in trying to earn his five cents, the kid is actually doing a bad
> deed.
>
> Michael
>
I think he's doing the right thing - after all, his incentive comes from
our putting a deposit on the bottles and cans.
Did you know a coke can is worth more than 5 cents at the refinery
because it costs at least 50 times the electricity to refine bauxite as
it does to recycle that can?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free shipping Cheap Wholesale LV Handbag, Jimmy Choo,Miumiu Real
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9b671dc69ee6683d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 8:17 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: No gift giving this Christmas...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7570f95930f62ce6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 10:52 am
From: "h"
"frater mus" <fratermus@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hem49n$res$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Gregory wrote:
>
>> people? "Science" is just a different religion that also requires
>> believing in something that you cannot see.
>
> Or, to put it a different and reality-based way, believing in something
> you can test, predict, and replicate.
>
Yup. Reality rules.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 12:43 pm
From: Rick Merrill
h wrote:
> "frater mus" <fratermus@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hem49n$res$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Gregory wrote:
>>
>>> people? "Science" is just a different religion that also requires
>>> believing in something that you cannot see.
>> Or, to put it a different and reality-based way, believing in something
>> you can test, predict, and replicate.
>>
>
> Yup. Reality rules.
>
>
Did you ever read Castaneda's "A Separate Reality"?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare" means what it says
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:12 am
From: Patriot Games
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:15:30 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
Liars are exposed:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:29:48 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
>>>>The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
>>>and they were paid essentially 50% of the income.
>>Cite?
>>>What's your point?
>>Its not my fault you're stupid.
>>6% of the population paid 99% of the taxes (on 50% of the income,
>>according to you).
>>That's Socialism.
>No, That's shear ignorance ON YOUR PART. The top 10% (>108k/yr) of the
>population pay about 50% of all Federal income taxes, based on having
>some 60% of all income.
Its not my fault you'e stupid.
Try to PAY ATTENTION:
The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
39%+60%=99%
What part of "39%+60%=99%" don't you understand?
Its not my fault you'e stupid.
Try to PAY ATTENTION:
The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
he richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
1%+5%=6%
What part of "1%+5%=6%" don't you understand?
YOU SAID "they were paid essentially 50% of the income."
Therefore "6% of the population paid 99% of the taxes (on 50% of the
income, according to you)."
>What part of Federal income tax is only about 1/4 of the total taxes do
>you not understand?
See below.
>Since you are obviously too challenged to do a simple search (as opposed
>to listening to Rush, Beck, etc), I'll try to keep this very simple:
>http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22287.html
>"While the media spotlight shines on federal income taxes each April,
>many Americans may be surprised to learn that federal income taxes make
>up only 26 percent of the nation's total tax bill. The remaining 74
>percent—nearly three-fourths of the U.S. economy's total tax burden—is
>comprised of the other federal, state and local taxes paid by American
>households every year."
YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of
property, sales & excise taxes."
Your CITE SHOWS: The highest income group paid 23-cents per tax dollar
to Federal Payroll taxes and the lowest income group paid 21-cents per
tax dollar to Federal Payroll taxes.
YOU LIED.
YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of
property, sales & excise taxes."
Your CITE SHOWS: The Total State and Local Taxes Averaged is $9,400
per taxpayer, with the LOWEST FOUR income groups paying $28,666
COMBINED and the SINGLE highest income groupo paying $24,421.
YOU LIED.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:24 am
From: Patriot Games
On 25 Nov 2009 19:03:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:37:10 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>> On 24 Nov 2009 23:02:24 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:15:14 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009 20:08:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote: Liars are Exposed:
>>>> On 14 Oct 2009 05:23:48 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:14:19 -0700, Shuurai wrote:
>>>>>> And how exactly are the "idle rich"
>>>>>> a drain?
>>>>>Many of the idle rich are receiving income that is not actually theirs
>>>>>by right of ever earning anything at all.
>>>> - Millionaires became millionaires by budgeting and controlling
>>>> expenses, and they maintain their affluent status the same way; for
>>>> example, 60 percent have never spent more than $32,000 for a car. -
>>>> Much of the money they save goes to investing; the average millionaire
>>>> household invests up to 20 percent of its income annually. - Contrary
>>>> to popular belief, most millionaires are not bankers, attorneys or
>>>> corporate managers; most typically are locally-based professionals
>>>> such as welding contractors, auctioneers, pest controllers and paving
>>>> contractors.
>>>> -Eighty percent of millionaires are first-generation millionaires.
>>>> http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=4300 Among the top 5
>>>> percent of households ranked by wealth, only 8 percent of their wealth
>>>> came from inheritances.
>>>> http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9858 - The top 1
>>>> percent of taxpayers, those who earn above $388,806, paid 40 percent
>>>> of all income taxes in 2006, the highest share in at least 40 years.
>>>> - The top 10 percent in income, those earning more than $108,904, paid
>>>> 71 percent.
>>>> - The top 50 percent in income paid 97.1 percent. - Americans with an
>>>> income below the median paid a record low 2.9 percent of all income
>>>> taxes.
>>>> http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=16810 YOU said: "Many
>>>> of the idle rich are receiving income that is not actually theirs by
>>>> right of ever earning anything at all." YOU LIED.
>>>> Truth: "Among the top 5 percent of households ranked by wealth, only 8
>>>> percent of their wealth came from inheritances." 8% is not and will
>>>> NEVER be considered "many" by ANY standard known to man.
>>>> YOU LIED.
>>>Not that it is even relevant, you lying pig: but what is your source for
>>>this 8% claim?
>> Can you read?
>> Among the top 5 percent of households ranked by wealth, only 8 percent
>> of their wealth came from inheritances.
>> http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9858
>At the url given by PG
So you can read! That's a good first step, Commie.
>"The evidence shows that people who are rich do not fit the stereotypes
>that many Americans have about them. By and large, they are frugal,
>prudent, hard-working entrepreneurs who did not receive their wealth from
>inheritance."
>That article is actually about millionaires. That article is correct in
>that most _millionaires_ (defined simply as people with assets exceeding
>one million dollars) earned their money and did not inherit it. There are
>a great many millionaires because a million bucks just isn't what it
>was. So the article misrepresents the term "rich"
Because YOU say so?
Hahahahahahah!!!
>The VAST MAJORITY of
>folks with assets between 1 and 2 million DO NOT have incomes exceeding
>$500k per year
No cite = Probable LIE.
>It is a
>misuse of the word "rich" to insinuate that self made millionaires are
>indicative of the idle _rich_.
There is no such thing as "idle rich."
>But PG is a liar in that he claims that the statement "Among the top 5
>percent of households ranked by wealth, only 8 percent of their wealth
>came from inheritances." Appears at http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?
>Article_ID=4300 Yet, this statement does not appear on the referenced
>page. Nor does the statement seem to be included in the material
>referenced by the url given by PG, the liar.
I gave you the cite:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9858
Is it my fault you HAVE ONLY LIES and STILL GET BEAT DOWN?
See above.
>The statement is attributed to "Bruce Bartlett, senior fellow at the
>National Center for Policy Analysis" by the American Institute for Policy
>Research (a conservative organization seeking an end to estate taxes).
>see: http://www.aei.org/article/13723
>Bruce Barlet is a supply side moron:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bartlett
>"Bruce Bartlett (b. October 11, 1951, in Ann Arbor, Michigan) is a
>historian who turned to writing about supply-side economics. He was a
>domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan and was a treasury
>official under President George H.W. Bush."
>Barlet is a senior fellow at
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis
>"The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is an American non-profit
>conservative think tank."
>The bottom line is that this 8% claim is less credible
Yet YOU FAILED to disprove it...
YOU are a PROVEN LIAR.
YOU are a PROVEN LOSER.
YOUR KIND should be dragged into the street, sprayed with gasoline and
lit up!
From: The Trucker <mikcob@verizon.net>
From: Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=jUC8GxIAAADBuGyUu_nwtpkjJgR-nwrPpbyajUBv9M9XLUB2gqkZmQ
Or: http://tinyurl.com/mldygz
Location: Port Orchard, Wa.
Title: The Trucker
Industry: Non-Profit
Website or Blog: GreaterVoice.org
About me: Retired now, I drove an 18 wheeler in 48 states and Canada
for 5 years, Prior to that I ran my own technology services company
providing heterogeneous systems administration and contract software
development (30 years). I have a few things to say before I croak.
greatervoice.org
IP: 209.41.200.68
Columbus, OK
Host: apollo.jtlnet.com
WHOIS Results for greatervoice.org
Domain ID:D83478242-LROR
Domain Name:GREATERVOICE.ORG
Created On:08-Feb-2002 21:32:06 UTC
Last Updated On:13-Nov-2008 01:48:02 UTC
Expiration Date:08-Feb-2014 21:32:06 UTC
Registrant ID:SD2361
Registrant Name:Michael Coburn
Registrant Street1:7614 E. Montana
Registrant City:Port Orchard
Registrant State/Province:Washington
Registrant Postal Code:98366
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.3608714992
Registrant Email:mikcob@gte.net
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Port+Orchard&state=WA&address=7614+E.+Montana
Or: http://tinyurl.com/ndbumo
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Port+Orchard&state=WA&address=7614+E.+Montana#a/maps/l::7614+E+Montana+St:Port+Orchard:WA:98366-8529:US:47.562491:-122.550039:address:Kitsap+County:1/m:hyb:16:47.562489:-122.550036:0:::::1:1:1::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e
Or: http://tinyurl.com/n8pzop
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:28 am
From: Patriot Games
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:31:11 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>>And as YOU can see it works and the LIAR "clams_casino" was CAUGHT
>>LYING, repeatedly...
>Your ignorance is beyond belief.
You LIED.
Learned to love your LIES.
They will follow you forever.
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:29:48 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Since you are obviously too challenged to do a simple search (as opposed
>to listening to Rush, Beck, etc), I'll try to keep this very simple:
>http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22287.html
>"While the media spotlight shines on federal income taxes each April,
>many Americans may be surprised to learn that federal income taxes make
>up only 26 percent of the nation's total tax bill. The remaining 74
>percent—nearly three-fourths of the U.S. economy's total tax burden—is
>comprised of the other federal, state and local taxes paid by American
>households every year."
YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of property,
sales & excise taxes."
Your CITE SHOWS: The highest income group paid 23-cents per tax dollar
to Federal Payroll taxes and the lowest income group paid 21-cents per
tax dollar to Federal Payroll taxes.
YOU LIED.
YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of property,
sales & excise taxes."
Your CITE SHOWS: The Total State and Local Taxes Averaged is $9,400
per taxpayer, with the LOWEST FOUR income groups paying $28,666
COMBINED and the SINGLE highest income groupo paying $24,421.
YOU LIED.
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:34 am
From: Patriot Games
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:41:12 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:43:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Patriot Games wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:29:48 -0500, clams_casino
>>>> <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>>> Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:37:06 -0500, clams_casino
>>>>>> <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2009 20:08:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Liars are exposed:
>>>>>>>> On 13 Oct 2009 00:01:41 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> About 80% work and the rest mooch. And of the 20% that mooch,
>>>>>>>>> the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
>>>>>>>>> idle poor.
>>>>>>>> Oops! Caught LYING, again:
>>>>>>>> The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in
>>>>>>>> 2000. The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56%
>>>>>>>> in 2000.
>>>>>>> and they were paid essentially 50% of the income.
>>>>>> Cite?
>>>>>>> What's your point?
>>>>>> Its not my fault you're stupid.
>>>>>> 6% of the population paid 99% of the taxes (on 50% of the income,
>>>>>> according to you).
>>>>>> That's Socialism.
>>>>> No, That's shear ignorance ON YOUR PART. The top 10% (>108k/yr) of
>>>>> the population pay about 50% of all Federal income taxes, based on
>>>>> having some 60% of all income.
>>>> Its not my fault you'e stupid.
>>>> Try to PAY ATTENTION:
>>>> The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
>>>> The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
>>>> 39%+60%=99%
>>> You cant add those together
>>> The 39% is ALREADY included in the 60%
>> I know that...
>> I sometimes use little tricks like that to TRAP LIARS, because its sooo easy.
>Never ever could bullshit and lie its way out of a wet paper bag.
You weren't paying attention.
When I SET A TRAP for someone I have NO INTENTION of actually LYING or
of actually passing along "bullshit." The point of the TRAP is to
catch a LIAR.
Of course setting a TRAP to CATCH a LIAR usually requires some BAIT so
I frequently leave a little typo (that I return to and correct).
And YOU have been CAUGHT LYING REPEATEDLY:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:47:53 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>phil scott wrote
>> Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote
>>>>> Whatsa matter rightards?
>>>> You were being IGNORED.
>>> But that doesn't answer the question:
>>> What happened to the ol' rightard "yeeehaaa?"
>> the handwritting is on he wall...
>Nope.
>> states going bankrupt or on the verge,
>Pure fantasy.
Oops! Caught LYING, again...
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/10/1003_budget_shortfall/1.htm
19 States That Can't Pay for Themselves
The data is based on a study by the Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities released at the end of September and shows the states that
have seen the biggest shortfalls in tax revenue in their fiscal 2009
budgets.
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
http://www.cbpp.org/
Summary:
States -
Blue: 48%
Red: 26%
Purple: 26%
Gap -
Blue: 34,746,000,000 74%
Purple: 8,785,000,000 19%
Red: 3,374,000,000 7%
========================
BLUE States
California: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 22% BLUE
Gap: $22.2 billion
New York: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 9.8% BLUE
Gap: $5.5 billion
New Jersey: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 7.7% BLUE
Gap: $2.5 billion
Illinois: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 6.3% BLUE
Gap: $1.8 billion
Maryland: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 7.2% BLUE
Gap: $1.1 billion
Wisconsin: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 4.6% BLUE
Gap: $527 million
Michigan: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 4.8% BLUE
Gap: $472 million
Rhode Island: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 13.1% BLUE
Gap: $430 million
Delaware: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 6% BLUE
Gap: $217 million
RED States
Arizona: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.9% RED
Gap: $2 billion
Georgia: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 8.7% RED
Gap: $1.8 billion
Alabama: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 9.5% RED
Gap: $784 million
South Carolina: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 5.7% RED
Gap: $390 million
New Hampshire: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 6.4% RED
Gap: $200 million
PURPLE States
Florida: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.9% PURPLE
Gap: $5.1 billion
Nevada: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 16% PURPLE
Gap: $1.2 billion
Virginia: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 7.1% PURPLE
Gap: $1.2 billion
Minnesota: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 5.4% PURPLE
Gap: $935 million
Iowa: Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 5.5% PURPLE
Gap: $350 million
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:43 am
From: Patriot Games
On 25 Nov 2009 17:57:34 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:14:10 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>> On 25 Nov 2009 06:59:25 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:42:06 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>>>> On 24 Nov 2009 18:19:31 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:16:04 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2009 20:08:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote: Liars are exposed:
>>>>>> On 13 Oct 2009 00:01:41 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>About 80% work and the rest mooch. And of the 20% that mooch, the
>>>>>>>idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the idle poor.
>>>>>> Oops! Caught LYING, again:
>>>>>> The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
>>>>>> The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
>>>>>> The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes.
>>>>><<<<<<<<<< truthful but boring numbers deleted and stipulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact hat the rich pay more income taxes then the rest is
>>>>>not in dispute.
>>>> You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
>>>> idle poor."
>>>> YOU LIED.
>>>My claim is
>> You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
>> idle poor."
>> YOU LIED.
>>>My claim is that the rich receive more benefit than do the poor from the
>>>activities of government that are funded by income taxes.
>> Of course that's ridiculous.
>> Do the rich get food stamps? No.
>> Do the rich get Medicaid? No.
>> Do the rich get Welfare? No.
>Look up above at the statement you claim is a lie. It does not say that
>the poor receive no benefit from income tax proceeds.
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
>>>Property
>>>rights protections are much more beneficial to those who own property of
>>>any kind.
>> Duh. Property rights protections are ONLY FOR those who own property.
>Yes.... You got something right. And although there is not a mutual
>exclusion between the recipients of aid to the poor and property
>ownership (like a pair of shoes or even a beat up car), the idle rich
>will own _MUCH_ more property than the recipients of aid to the poor.
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
>> But this has NOTHING to do with the rich. Property rights protections
>> apply to ALL privately owned property including your CAR, your
>> POSSESSIONS in a rented apartment, etc.
>Rich us _measured_ in asset ownership.
True, yet irrelevant.
The property rights of a poor person who owns a clunker-car are
IDENTICAL to the property rights of a rich person who owns a Ferrari.
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
>>>And the more you own, the more you benefit from government enforcement
>>>of property rights. That is, self evident.
>> No, that is a LIE. Such laws are applied equally.
>THE VALUE OF PROPERTY RIGHTS PROTECTION VARIES DIRECTLY WITH THE VALUE OF
>THE PROPERTY.
There is no such thing as "the value of property rights."
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
>Why not take a look at the premiums on your insurance policies
Which has NOTHING to do with "property RIGHTS."
Insurance has to do with Property Value and has NOTHING to do with
with Property RIGHTS and there is no such thing as "the value of
property rights."
>>>But you will deny and lie right on schedule.
>> Feel free to PROVE your claim that "the more you own, the more you
>> benefit from government enforcement of property rights."
>Look at the premiums on your insurance policies
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:48 am
From: Patriot Games
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:39:05 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>>Do the rich get food stamps? No.
>The first valid statement in all your claims. However, many do enjoy
>extensive government subsidized meals & entertainment via "business"
>expenses.
Which has NOTHING to do with rich or poor. Legal buusiness expenses
are legal and valid tax deductions FOR ANYONE claiming them.
>How do you think places like Mortons of Chicago, The Pal,
>etc exist? Do you really believe the wealthy are buying $5k - $50k
>(and up) seats at sporting events out of their own pocket?
Feel free to prove they don't.
>>Do the rich get Medicaid? No.
>Actually, many get upwards of $20k+ in tax free medical benefits.
No cite = Probable LIE.
>>Do the rich get Welfare? No.
>What do you call the vast housing subsidies they enjoy with respect to
>subsidized mortgage interest and property taxes?
No cite = Probable LIE.
Here's a hint: COMPOUNDING your LIES only ADDS TO the Google Archive
that I will post and report FOREVER thus destroying your credibility
in this Newsgroup FOREVER.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:50 am
From: Patriot Games
On 25 Nov 2009 17:31:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:16:04 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>> On 23 Nov 2009 20:08:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Liars are exposed:
>> On 13 Oct 2009 00:01:41 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>About 80% work and the rest mooch. And of the 20% that mooch, the idle
>>>rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the idle poor.
>> Oops! Caught LYING, again:
>> The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000. The
>> richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000. The bottom
>> 50% paid 3% of income taxes.
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071217112125AAvUc6r
>> For Tax Year 2006
>> (AGI, Adjusted Gross Income)
>> Top 1% AGI - 39.89% of all taxes.
>> Top 5% AGI - 60.14% of all taxes.
>> Top 10% AGI - 70.79% of all taxes.
>> Top 25% AGI - 86.27% of all taxes.
>> Top 50% AGI - 97.01% of all taxes.
>> Bottom 50% AGI - 2.99% of all taxes.
>> http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
You said "the idle rich are only slightly less of a drain than are the
idle poor."
YOU LIED.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 12:11 pm
From: Patriot Games
On 25 Nov 2009 19:55:22 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:20:34 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>> On 24 Nov 2009 22:31:09 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:16:41 -0500, Patriot Games wrote:
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009 20:08:53 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote: Liars are exposed:
>>>> On 8 Nov 2009 21:15:59 GMT, Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>Yet wages have stayed flat or diminished since the mid 70's.
>>>> Wrong. YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING, again: National average wage
>>>> indexing series 1980 12,513.46 1981 13,773.10
>>>> 1982 14,531.34
>>>> 1983 15,239.24
>>>> 1984 16,135.07
>>>> 1985 16,822.51
>>>> 1986 17,321.82
>>>> 1987 18,426.51
>>>> 1988 19,334.04
>>>> 1989 20,099.55
>>>> 1990 21,027.98
>>>> 1991 21,811.60
>>>> 1992 22,935.42
>>>> 1993 23,132.67
>>>> 1994 23,753.53
>>>> 1995 24,705.66
>>>> 1996 25,913.90
>>>> 1997 27,426.00
>>>> 1998 28,861.44
>>>> 1999 30,469.84
>>>> 2000 32,154.82
>>>> 2001 32,921.92
>>>> 2002 33,252.09
>>>> 2003 34,064.95
>>>> 2004 35,648.55
>>>> 2005 36,952.94
>>>> 2006 38,651.41
>>>> 2007 40,405.48
>>>> 2008 41,334.97
>>>> http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html
>>>I give you the nice graph of actual wages as adjusted...
>> Adjusted?
>> Your attempt to Change the Subject has FAILED.
>>>I give you the nice graph of actual wages as adjusted by the CPI found
>>>at
>>>http://illusionofprosperity.blogspot.com/2007/12/historical-real-hourly-
>>>wages.html
>>>The data source for the graph is the Fed cited right there on the page.
>> Wrong. We already covered this.
>> The "source" is an INVALID comparison of "Average Hourly Earnings: Total
>> Private Industries" AND "Consumer Price Index For All Urban Consumers:
>> All Items."
>> YOU SAID: "Yet wages have stayed flat or diminished since the mid 70's."
>> YOU LIED.
>> Case closed.
>The actual SOURCE of the _wage_ numbers is the BLS.
>HOWEVER!!
>Using _NOMINAL_ _SALARIES_ _IS_ a lie. It has always been a lie and
>always will be a lie.
Your attempt to change the subject has FAILED.
YOU SAID: "wages have stayed flat or diminished since the mid 70's."
YOU LIED.
>A _SALARY_ of $16,822 in 1985 would be a _SALARY_
>of $33,660 in 2008 money adjusted to inflation.
You FAILED to CITE your Source.
The COMMON Source is the CPI Inflation Calculator at:
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$16,822 in 1985 would have the SAME buying power as $33,660 in 2008.
Yet the 2008 number is $41,334.97 representing a 22.80% INCREASE.
YOU SAID: "wages have stayed flat or diminished since the mid 70's."
YOU LIED.
>A yearly gain of less than 1% per year
Wrong.
$16,822 compounded 1% over 22 years is just over $20,000 but the
ACTUAL average wage is $33,660.
YOU SAID: "wages have stayed flat or diminished since the mid 70's."
YOU LIED.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Friday Deals: Buy the Right PC, Not the Cheapest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4eed39efe50f8c60?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 12:03 pm
From: Ablang
Black Friday Deals: Buy the Right PC, Not the Cheapest
Computers may be on sale at insane prices, but take a careful look at
the bottom line — and exactly what it is that you're buying.
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, Computerworld
Nov 26, 2009 3:00 pm
http://www.pcworld.com/article/183268/black_friday_deals_buy_the_right_pc_not_the_cheapest.html?tk=nl_dnx_h_crawl
I don't need a new PC, but I want one anyway. All those Black Friday
deals are mighty tempting. But, if you're going to give in to
temptation here are some hints to keep in mind.
First, those deals that are too good to be true? Many of them are too
good to be true. If you are the first person in line at 4 a.m. you may
get the one ultra-low price laptop that a store will have in stock.
But, if you're a 'late' riser, who doesn't make it to the store until
4:05, you can forget about the miracle-priced computer.
Other computers may also be on sale at insane prices, but take a
careful look at exactly what it is that you're buying. I've seen
several netbooks deals that sound great... until I looked closer and
saw that they require pricey, two-year mobile phone contracts on top
of the up-front price.
I'm not saying you can't get a good deal. You can. Just don't get too
worked up about sub-$100 priced computers, or you may end up
disappointed or with a PC that costs you far more in the long-run.
Before setting your alarm clock for 3 in the morning, you also should
keep in mind that many vendors are offering the same deals at their
online stores. Given a choice between standing in a crowd at your
local Best Buy and sitting at my computer and shopping, I'm at home at
my PC every time.
To find these deals, there are several good Web sites that serve as
Black Friday sales guides. I prefer Black Friday Ads and Black Friday
Info.
Before you start shopping though, here are some specifics to keep in
mind.
If you're going to buy a new Windows 7 PC, be sure to get one with at
least 2GBs of RAM, and if you can get more RAM so much the better.
I've found adding RAM to a computer usually gets you the most bang for
the buck from any upgrade. Avoid netbooks with Windows 7. Windows 7
Starter Edition may, in theory, run on 1 GB of RAM, but it's no fun
and it lacks many of Windows 7's best features.
The version of Windows 7 that you'll want to buy for a home PC, by the
by, is Windows 7 Home Premium. Windows 7 Ultimate is also worth buying
if it won't cost you much more. On the other hand, you want to avoid
Windows 7 Home Basic. It has more features than Starter Edition, but
it lacks such basics as the ability to play DVDs. If you buy a 'deal'
with Windows 7 Home Basic, it's a deal you'll regret.
If you've been lusting for a Mac, now, or rather tomorrow, November
27th, is the time to buy. Apple will offer modest, about 8% sales on
Macs on that day only. Still, since Apple almost never discounts Macs,
it's still better than nothing. Other vendors, like MacMall, will also
offer lower Mac prices for longer periods of time. For what it's
worth, I think the Mac Mini, which will also be on sale, has always
offered a great Mac at a PC price.
As for Linux, there's not a lot to pick from, I had one deal I liked a
lot, a Dell's Vostro A90 Netbook for $184. This is a nice netbook that
comes with Ubuntu Linux, but it appears that they're already sold out.
Sigh.
Still, any netbook you can find will run desktop Linux successfully,
so if you're heart is set on Linux, shop around. Even the most minimal-
equipped network will still do well with Linux running on it.
Good luck with your shopping!
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