Frugal Living: Jul 24, 2008

Thursday, July 24, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Extreme grocery shopping saves cash as food prices rise
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00ace7baec84eb05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 9:17 am
From: Jonathan Grobe

On 2008-07-24, clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The intended point was that if a significant numbers of drivers would
>> consider the real cost of driving (not simply the cost of gasoline),
>> they'd likely reduce their driving significantly, resulting in a
>> significant reduction in the consumption of gasoline / demand which
>> would in turn, reduce the pricing (via reduced futures /
>> speculation). There's nothing like a glut of product to bring down
>> pricing.
>>
>> If drivers would view their habits at 50 cents/mile (IRS
>> conservatively estimates a 50.8 cent average) vs. the simple 16 cents
>> / mile it costs for $4 gas at 25 mpg, they'd be using a whole lot
>> more mass transit, living a whole lot closer to work and just
>> driving a whole lot less.
>>
> My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to $0.585 /
> mile (from $0.505).

These numbers are not appropriate. A substantial amount of the money
used in computing this figure is in fixed costs. So you have to pay
these costs whether or not you do these extra grocery trips. The numbers
you should use in computing whether or not you should do these additional
trips should only involve additional costs.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 11:39 am
From: clams_casino

Jonathan Grobe wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to $0.585 /
>>mile (from $0.505).
>>
>>
>
>These numbers are not appropriate. A substantial amount of the money
>used in computing this figure is in fixed costs. So you have to pay
>these costs whether or not you do these extra grocery trips. The numbers
>you should use in computing whether or not you should do these additional
>trips should only involve additional costs.
>
>
>

As I've previously said, it's very easy to claim savings when you
ignore costs.

If you don't buy tires during the trip, is there really a cost involved?

So if no gas is purchased during the trip, should gas costs be ignored?
Since it wasn't an additional cost during that trip, why should it be
considered a cost?.

If a headlight burns out & needs replacement during the trip, should the
entire cost of replacement be considered a cost of that trip?

Hint - only a fool considers just the cost of gasoline when determining
the cost of a trip.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 11:40 am
From: clams_casino

Brian Elfert wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes:
>
>
>
>>At least half that savings is fictitious.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily
>>ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of gas as their cost of driving.
>>
>>
>
>Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if
>the car is used or not. Insurance in most cases is not priced on miles
>driven.
>
>

Agreed, but in most cases, very little is not a function of miles driven.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 12:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
> Brian Elfert wrote
>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes

>>> At least half that savings is fictitious.

>>> Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the cost
>>> of gas as their cost of driving.

>> Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if the car is used or not. Insurance in most
>> cases is not priced on miles driven.

> Agreed, but in most cases, very little is not a function of miles driven.

Quite a bit actually, particularly the insurance and registration costs, the
finance cost if the car isnt bought for cash, even the depreciation may not
change much, particularly if that particular individual only uses the car much
for that particular use, shopping etc and say otherwise works from home.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 1:15 pm
From: clams_casino

Rod Speed wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
>
>
>>Brian Elfert wrote
>>
>>
>>>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>>At least half that savings is fictitious.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>>>>Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the cost
>>>>of gas as their cost of driving.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>>>Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if the car is used or not. Insurance in most
>>>cases is not priced on miles driven.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>Agreed, but in most cases, very little is not a function of miles driven.
>>
>>
>
>Quite a bit actually, particularly the insurance and registration costs, the
>finance cost if the car isnt bought for cash, even the depreciation may not
>change much, particularly if that particular individual only uses the car much
>for that particular use, shopping etc and say otherwise works from home.
>
>
>
>
There will always be exceptions. That's certainly not the norm.

If someone rarely uses a car, they pay dearly for those miles driven.
Under those circumstances, the use of a cab and / or renting for
occasional trips could actually be a frugal alternative to owning /
maintaining a vehicle.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 1:25 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

clams_casino wrote:
> Jonathan Grobe wrote:
>
>>> My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to
>>> $0.585 / mile (from $0.505).
>>
>> These numbers are not appropriate. A substantial amount of the money
>> used in computing this figure is in fixed costs. So you have to pay
>> these costs whether or not you do these extra grocery trips. The numbers
>> you should use in computing whether or not you should do these additional
>
> As I've previously said, it's very easy to claim savings when you
> ignore costs.
>
> If you don't buy tires during the trip, is there really a cost involved?
>
> So if no gas is purchased during the trip, should gas costs be ignored?
> Since it wasn't an additional cost during that trip, why should it be
> considered a cost?.
>
> If a headlight burns out & needs replacement during the trip, should the
> entire cost of replacement be considered a cost of that trip?
>
> Hint - only a fool considers just the cost of gasoline when determining
> the cost of a trip.

Yes, oil, tires, etc. should be included. But probably not insurance
and registration.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Just because everything is different doesn't mean
anything has changed. -Irene Peter

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 3:33 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Evelyn C. Leeper <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>> Jonathan Grobe wrote:
>>
>>>> My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to
>>>> $0.585 / mile (from $0.505).
>>>
>>> These numbers are not appropriate. A substantial amount of the money
>>> used in computing this figure is in fixed costs. So you have to pay
>>> these costs whether or not you do these extra grocery trips. The
>>> numbers you should use in computing whether or not you should do
>>> these additional
>>
>> As I've previously said, it's very easy to claim savings when you
>> ignore costs.
>>
>> If you don't buy tires during the trip, is there really a cost
>> involved? So if no gas is purchased during the trip, should gas costs be
>> ignored? Since it wasn't an additional cost during that trip, why
>> should it be considered a cost?.
>>
>> If a headlight burns out & needs replacement during the trip, should
>> the entire cost of replacement be considered a cost of that trip?
>>
>> Hint - only a fool considers just the cost of gasoline when
>> determining the cost of a trip.

> Yes, oil, tires, etc. should be included.

But those dont affect the cost per mile much even when they are.

> But probably not insurance and registration.

Certainly not. The depreciation of the vehicle in spades as long as that trip isnt done too often.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 3:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
>>> Brian Elfert wrote
>>>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes

>>>>> At least half that savings is fictitious.

>>>>> Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the
>>>>> cost of gas as their cost of driving.

>>>> Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if the car is used or not. Insurance in
>>>> most cases is not priced on miles driven.

>>> Agreed, but in most cases, very little is not a function of miles driven.

>> Quite a bit actually, particularly the insurance and registration
>> costs, the finance cost if the car isnt bought for cash, even the
>> depreciation may not change much, particularly if that particular
>> individual only uses the car much for that particular use, shopping
>> etc and say otherwise works from home.

> There will always be exceptions. That's certainly not the norm.

Yes, but if that trip is only done say monthly, it wont affect the depreciation
of the value of the car much if any at all if the car is otherwise used normally.

> If someone rarely uses a car, they pay dearly for those miles driven.

Nope, not the marginal cost of those miles.

> Under those circumstances, the use of a cab and / or renting for occasional trips could actually be a frugal
> alternative to owning / maintaining a vehicle.

Not necessarily, most obviously with an older vehicle.

His real costs for that shopping trip would be quite close to the ones he
actually used, particularly if he only bothered with the compulsory insurance.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 5:39 pm
From: "Lou"

"Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4888e561$0$7360$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> clams_casino wrote:
> > Jonathan Grobe wrote:
> >
> >>> My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to
> >>> $0.585 / mile (from $0.505).
> >>
> >> These numbers are not appropriate. A substantial amount of the money
> >> used in computing this figure is in fixed costs. So you have to pay
> >> these costs whether or not you do these extra grocery trips. The
numbers
> >> you should use in computing whether or not you should do these
additional
> >
> > As I've previously said, it's very easy to claim savings when you
> > ignore costs.
> >
> > If you don't buy tires during the trip, is there really a cost
involved?
> >
> > So if no gas is purchased during the trip, should gas costs be ignored?
> > Since it wasn't an additional cost during that trip, why should it be
> > considered a cost?.
> >
> > If a headlight burns out & needs replacement during the trip, should the
> > entire cost of replacement be considered a cost of that trip?
> >
> > Hint - only a fool considers just the cost of gasoline when determining
> > the cost of a trip.
>
> Yes, oil, tires, etc. should be included. But probably not insurance
> and registration.
>

Whyever not? If he didn't have a car, he wouldn't incur any of these costs.
Sure, he'd have to shop locally, and he'd pay more for a dozen eggs and so
on, but possibly at the end of the year he'd be ahead.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 5:42 pm
From: "Lou"

"Brian Elfert" <belfert@visi.com> wrote in message
news:m6mdnYKpybfuNRXVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@posted.visi...
> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes:
>
> >At least half that savings is fictitious.
>
> >Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily
> >ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of gas as their cost of
driving.
>
> Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if
> the car is used or not. Insurance in most cases is not priced on miles
> driven.

I don't know at the moment if that's an issue for me, but in years past,
auto insurance costs were partly based on the kind of driving you did - if
you drove to and from work, the annual cost was higher than if you used the
car only for "pleasure" driving. Also, if the commute was more than 10
miles one way, the annual cost was higher.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 7:09 pm
From: "h"

"Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jk9ik.368$GI.299@trnddc05...
>
> "Brian Elfert" <belfert@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:m6mdnYKpybfuNRXVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@posted.visi...
>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> writes:
>>
>> >At least half that savings is fictitious.
>>
>> >Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily
>> >ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of gas as their cost of
> driving.
>>
>> Some of the costs of driving like insurance are a fixed cost no matter if
>> the car is used or not. Insurance in most cases is not priced on miles
>> driven.
>
> I don't know at the moment if that's an issue for me, but in years past,
> auto insurance costs were partly based on the kind of driving you did - if
> you drove to and from work, the annual cost was higher than if you used
> the
> car only for "pleasure" driving. Also, if the commute was more than 10
> miles one way, the annual cost was higher.
>

Yup. I work at home and drive a 10 year old, paid for, used car. I pay $500
a year for insurance (no collision) and it's listed as "pleasure". When I
commuted to work 20 miles each way (no collision) it was $750 a year. That
was 10 years ago, so I suspect it's a lot more for commuters these days.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap air jordan 22 PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bf1dd77c84602e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 9:45 am
From: yuwenwu007@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: look to the bible for answers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c1e11836f90c57d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 10:47 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:50:45 -0700, A Veteran
<georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

>Dear President Bush,
<snip>
>Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
>unchanging.

Well said, all of it. Thanks immensely, georgewk!

--
The Final Testament
http://www.gay-bible.org

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TOPIC: Dieting on a budget
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7cbeb26b885dc908?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 10:58 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:33:24 -0600, timeOday
<timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>I agree. Starch is cheap calories but they don't satisfy for long. Fat
>is pretty cheap calories, if you don't mind having a heart attack later.
> I would like to hear about some cheap sources of lean protein.

Legumes and whole grains.

--
The Final Testament
http://www.gay-bible.org

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 11:17 am
From: "ares"

Eggs... they're filling too.

ares

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 7:03 pm
From: "h"

"Chief Thracian" <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4888c287.4769648@amsterdam.newsgroups-download.com...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:33:24 -0600, timeOday
> <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>>I agree. Starch is cheap calories but they don't satisfy for long. Fat
>>is pretty cheap calories, if you don't mind having a heart attack later.
>> I would like to hear about some cheap sources of lean protein.
>
> Legumes and whole grains.
>
>
Cut the starch, eat mostly protein and fat, and stop worrying about the
heart attack. Without the carbs your cholesterol will stay low.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Depreciation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d4818ede437a0f5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 11:19 am
From: "Bob F"

"James" <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:287b68ac-a8c0-4f7c-b59a-a1df2c3310f0@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

The concept in business is called TCO or total cost of ownership. You
should even include the price of the equipement you use to maintain
the cars.

****************************************************************

But I HAVE to have that!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 4:25 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:29:09 -0700 (PDT), James <jlinn@idirect.com>
wrote:

>On Jul 23, 6:35?pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>> Bob F wrote:
>>
>> >And what are you paying for insurance and licensing for each of those vehicles?
>>
>> Please.
>>
>> Don't confuse the savings issue by bringing up costs.
>
>But, it does have an impact.
>
>I could buy an old cheap car that used far less gas than my 6 year old
>minivan. And if all I looked at was the purchase cost, it might make
>sense. And my van would depreciate more slowly because I would be
>using it less
>
>But when I look at the additional cost to insure a second vehicle
>(about $180 a month for my first vehicle, 100 for my second), there is
>no way to justify the second vehicle because there is no way I will
>save $100 a month in gas, unless the price of gas continues to climb.
>Plus add $80 a year for licensing, and $45 every other year for
>emissions testing.
>
>The concept in business is called TCO or total cost of ownership. You
>should even include the price of the equipement you use to maintain
>the cars. Until you know the total costs, your ideas about savings are
>speculation.
>
Right. Like the IRS 58 cent cost per mile, generalizations are
generally worthless.
Not sure what OhioGuy exactly does with his 3 vehicles.
Maybe 2 are being used at one time.
The 3rd may be worth having for it's camping convenience.
My insurance cost for that would less than $300 a year and $110
licensing. Sort of a personal call whether it's worth it.
This isn't rocket science and most people who can balance a checkbook
can know exactly what their vehicle is costing them, or make a close
estimate without putting a pencil to paper.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: One last cleaning before home remodel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18f8bfd31d424652?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 11:54 am
From: "MRS. CLEAN"

Let's sum it up!

The majority here think you should leave well enough alone :)

Now, take the money and go out for a lovely meal and don't worry about
living like a pig!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Algodones dentists?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6d2cb9598c481755?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 6:03 pm
From: The Real Bev

Anybody have any recommendations? We need a LOT of work...

--
Cheers, Bev
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
"Tip: Place your houseplants in front of the television during
the next presidential debate and watch how leafy they get."
-- Scott Adams

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 6:44 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:

> Anybody have any recommendations? We need a LOT of work...
>

Well, you had me fooled. I was looking for a type of dentist that does
algodones work.

Marsha/Ohio <------ honest, we're not all stupid in Ohio

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 7:09 pm
From: The Real Bev

Marsha wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Anybody have any recommendations? We need a LOT of work...
>
> Well, you had me fooled. I was looking for a type of dentist that does
> algodones work.
>
> Marsha/Ohio <------ honest, we're not all stupid in Ohio

No. That responsibility devolves onto ONE woman from Cleveland who
wasn't allowed to pet her own horse by her horse-trainer -- the one SHE
hired -- and (2) couldn't figure out how Californians kept their lawns
green if it didn't rain in the summer.

--
Cheers,
Bev
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the straps.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 7:17 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:

> Marsha wrote:
>> Well, you had me fooled. I was looking for a type of dentist that
>> does algodones work.
>>
>> Marsha/Ohio <------ honest, we're not all stupid in Ohio
>
>
> No. That responsibility devolves onto ONE woman from Cleveland who
> wasn't allowed to pet her own horse by her horse-trainer -- the one SHE
> hired -- and (2) couldn't figure out how Californians kept their lawns
> green if it didn't rain in the summer.
>

I deny any connections to Cleveland, other than visiting the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame twice. Dennis Kucinich is a short idiot...

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/90fa7947e691813a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 6:05 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dan Birchall wrote:

> bashley101+mot@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
>> Dan Birchall wrote:
>> > bashley101+usenet@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
>> >> I have no idea at all what he's trying to sell
>> >>
>> >> cheng wrote:
>> >> > Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
>> >
>> > Obviously he's selling integrals. Didn't you take calculus? :)
>>
>> <sigh> I was an English major. Now if he'd been pushing conjugations...
>>
> We'll have no conjugating in here - this is a family newsgroup. :)

If they have LEGAL conjugational visits in prison libraries, who are we
to turn up our noses?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the most frugal stock right now?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e679f289ca85f247?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 24 2008 6:40 pm
From: Observer

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:22:34 -0500, "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

> I don't usually ask others for stock advice, but thought it would be fun
>to see what others out there think right now. I'm in a position to pick a
>couple of stocks as investments in my IRA, and I like to use a value
>approach. In other words, I look for companies that are currently out of
>favor, or that the market has sold off more than would seem to be warranted,
>given long term prospects for the company.
>
> I just loaded up on a couple of inexpensive big pharma stocks, and would
>like to balance those out with stocks from other sectors. Anyone have any
>suggestions for an undervalued stock that is likely to bounce back at least
>20% over the next couple of years? (preferably one with little or no debt,
>and a stock price that is less than 10x cash flow)
>
> Thanks!
>

Food stock. Load your pantry with food. Staples. Canned goods. See
if the price doesn't skyrocket in the next several months.

Course, that don't work in an IRA...

Peak oil? I dunno.

Obama vs McCain? PEAK BULLSHIT!

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17 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Dieting on a budget - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7cbeb26b885dc908?hl=en
* Extreme grocery shopping saves cash as food prices rise - 7 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00ace7baec84eb05?hl=en
* air conditioning in two-story house - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66c55f1e21d65566?hl=en
* Oxygen Bars - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/398f387eaa18b611?hl=en
* One last cleaning before home remodel - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18f8bfd31d424652?hl=en
* CHOKING HAZARD: Recall of "It's MY Binky" pacifiers. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cac0d8b10801e5b6?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:45 pm
From: clams_casino

timeOday wrote:

>Al wrote:
>
>
>>Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always end
>>up spending more when I'm dieting.
>>
>>
>
>I agree. Starch is cheap calories but they don't satisfy for long. Fat
>is pretty cheap calories, if you don't mind having a heart attack later.
> I would like to hear about some cheap sources of lean protein.
>
>

London broil (boneless beef shoulder) was on sale here last week for
$1.99/lb - about as lean a piece of meat as you'll get. Great slow
grilled with a teriyaki marinade, even on the third day in a steak
sandwich with a touch of BBQ sauce.

Excellent if sliced very thin, across the grain.

Split chicken breast is on sale here at $0.99/lb this week (3 lbs or more).

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 3:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Al <aebaxter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Somehow it seems like eating less should cost less, but I always
> end up spending more when I'm dieting. I just read this article:

> http://www.livestrong.com/article/4096-need-diet-programs/

> It talks about how diets can fit every budget.
> But what are your tips for losing weight on a tight budget?

Eat a lot less of what you normally eat.

Not a shred of rocket science whatever involved.

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 4:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>
>> <http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>
>>
>> Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And yes,
>> the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see this a lot
>> when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees would drive in
>> once a month from long distances and buy all their non-perishables
>> at much cheaper prices than off-vase.

> He claims to save $60-70 (including $15? in gas costs) by driving 90 miles, but ignores the wear and tear costs on his
> car.

That can be appropriate if the car isnt otherwise used much.

It may in fact reduce the wear and tear on the engine because
it gets a decent warmup on those trips that it doesnt otherwise get.

> It's easy to make a profit or show savings when one ignores his costs.

> At least half that savings is fictitious.

> Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of
> gas as their cost of driving.

Nope, that doesnt affect world demand or the price of crude much.

> Granted, he appears to have saved $30-35, but considering his ignorance of costs, I question if the pricing difference
> is as great as claimed.
> I did a Stop & Shop cost comparison about two years ago and found
> Walmart did have a 30% advantage on cost for a $100 basket of goods I
> typically purchase, but certainly not the 50% claimed in the article
> ($150 in goods with about $75 - 80 in savings). Then again, that
> could depend significantly on his basket of goods. On the other
> hand, they don't mention if there is a regular Walmart within a few
> mile, where much of his savings would also likely be realized without driving 90
> miles (regular Walmarts do carry much of the staple products that make
> up a bulk of typical shopping lists)

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 4:48 pm
From: clams_casino

Rod Speed wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>><http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>
>>>
>>>Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And yes,
>>>the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see this a lot
>>>when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees would drive in
>>>once a month from long distances and buy all their non-perishables
>>>at much cheaper prices than off-vase.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>He claims to save $60-70 (including $15? in gas costs) by driving 90 miles, but ignores the wear and tear costs on his
>>car.
>>
>>
>
>That can be appropriate if the car isnt otherwise used much.
>
>It may in fact reduce the wear and tear on the engine because
>it gets a decent warmup on those trips that it doesnt otherwise get.
>
>
>

Agreed that if he's using the car for other errands / visits, it can
lessen the real cost for the groceries.

>>It's easy to make a profit or show savings when one ignores his costs.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>At least half that savings is fictitious.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the cost of
>>gas as their cost of driving.
>>
>>
>
>Nope, that doesnt affect world demand or the price of crude much.
>
>

The intended point was that if a significant numbers of drivers would
consider the real cost of driving (not simply the cost of gasoline),
they'd likely reduce their driving significantly, resulting in a
significant reduction in the consumption of gasoline / demand which
would in turn, reduce the pricing (via reduced futures /
speculation). There's nothing like a glut of product to bring down
pricing.

If drivers would view their habits at 50 cents/mile (IRS conservatively
estimates a 50.8 cent average) vs. the simple 16 cents / mile it costs
for $4 gas at 25 mpg, they'd be using a whole lot more mass transit,
living a whole lot closer to work and just driving a whole lot less.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:29 pm
From: "Lou"

"Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4887679b$0$20919$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> <http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>
>
> Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And yes,
> the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see this a lot
> when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees would drive in once a
> month from long distances and buy all their non-perishables at much
> cheaper prices than off-vase.
>
Coming up with a cost per mile to drive is tricky - you incur some costs
whether the car is ever driven or not, and some costs (like gas) depend
directly on how many miles you drive. This means that your average cost per
mile can be lower if you drive a lot.

Be that as it may, it's not uncommon to see estimated cost per mile to drive
in the 50 cent range or higher. For a 90 mile round trip at 50 cents per
mile, it's costing him $45.00 to drive that shopping trip. His actual cost
may be higher or lower, I wouldn't know, but his figure of a saving around
$53 because he spent only $16.29 on gas is probably wildly overstated.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

>>>> <http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807200323>

>>>> Article about driving 90 miles round trip to buy groceries. And
>>>> yes, the savings takes into account fuel costs. I used to see
>>>> this a lot when I was young at the base commissary. Retirees
>>>> would drive in once a month from long distances and buy all their
>>>> non-perishables at much cheaper prices than off-vase.

>>> He claims to save $60-70 (including $15? in gas costs) by driving
>>> 90 miles, but ignores the wear and tear costs on his car.

>> That can be appropriate if the car isnt otherwise used much.

>> It may in fact reduce the wear and tear on the engine because
>> it gets a decent warmup on those trips that it doesnt otherwise get.

> Agreed that if he's using the car for other errands / visits, it can lessen the real cost for the groceries.

I meant something quite different, that he may not need to consider the
extra wear and tear on the car if it isnt used for anything else much, just
because a decent run can be good the engine wear in that situation.

Obviously the tyres get more use, but again, if its not used for
anything much except those trips, they may last for a long time
anyway and need to be replaced just due to their age, not the wear.

>>> It's easy to make a profit or show savings when one ignores his costs.

>>> At least half that savings is fictitious.

>>> Is there any wonder why gas prices are so high? Hint - it's primarily ignorant drivers who only consider the cost
>>> of gas as their cost of driving.

>> Nope, that doesnt affect world demand or the price of crude much.

> The intended point was that if a significant numbers of drivers would consider the real cost of driving (not simply
> the cost of gasoline), they'd likely reduce their driving significantly,

Unlikely and even if that did happen in the US, that wouldnt affect the world price of crude much if at all.

The current price of crude appears to have more of a speculation factor than usual.

> resulting in a significant reduction in the consumption of gasoline / demand which would in turn, reduce the pricing
> (via reduced futures / speculation).

Again, I dont believe that that would have much effect
on total world demand, or even on the speculation either.

> There's nothing like a glut of product to bring down pricing.

Sure, but that wouldnt produce a glut and with the increasing use
of oil by China and India particularly, I cant see a glut of oil again.

That unlikey to happen even if we see a full worldwide depression.

> If drivers would view their habits at 50 cents/mile (IRS conservatively estimates a 50.8 cent average)

That includes the financing cost of the car which wont change with less use.

> vs. the simple 16 cents / mile it costs for $4 gas at 25 mpg, they'd be using a whole lot more mass transit,

I doubt it, because its much less flexible than using a car.

> living a whole lot closer to work

I doubt that in spades now that the big sag in property values has
made it a lot harder to move closer to where you currently work.

> and just driving a whole lot less.

I doubt that too.

Yes, it would save some fuel if people say shopped once a month
instead of multiple times a week, but I cant see that they will change
their behaviour like that just from using that higher price calculation.

They didnt change their behaviour much even when the price of gasoline roughly doubled.

Essentially because they can afford the higher price because the US standard of living is so high.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:15 pm
From: clams_casino

clams_casino wrote:

>>
>>
>
> The intended point was that if a significant numbers of drivers would
> consider the real cost of driving (not simply the cost of gasoline),
> they'd likely reduce their driving significantly, resulting in a
> significant reduction in the consumption of gasoline / demand which
> would in turn, reduce the pricing (via reduced futures /
> speculation). There's nothing like a glut of product to bring down
> pricing.
>
> If drivers would view their habits at 50 cents/mile (IRS
> conservatively estimates a 50.8 cent average) vs. the simple 16 cents
> / mile it costs for $4 gas at 25 mpg, they'd be using a whole lot
> more mass transit, living a whole lot closer to work and just
> driving a whole lot less.
>
My error - the IRS recently raised that conservative average to $0.585 /
mile (from $0.505).

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:23 pm
From: clams_casino

Rod Speed wrote:

>
>
>
>>and just driving a whole lot less.
>>
>>
>
>I doubt that too.
>
>
>

"$4.05+ average national gas costs and $140 barrel oil is having its
effect: Demand destruction brought about by high prices has lead to
Americans driving less.

Total vehicle miles traveled grew by nearly 3% a year from 1984 to 2004,
the rate of growth slowed suddenly in 2005 and 2006 and has declined since."

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/06/chart-of-the-da.html

"Drivers in the US traveled 1.4 billion fewer highway miles, and 20
billion miles for all public roads compared to last years, or 1.8% less.
Cummulatively, 2008 is down 2.1% from 2007"

I'm confident it's beginning to have an effect on supply / pricing.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 8:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> and just driving a whole lot less.

>> I doubt that too.

> "$4.05+ average national gas costs and $140 barrel oil is having its effect: Demand destruction brought about by high
> prices has lead to Americans driving less.

But clearly hasnt brought the price down as a result.

> Total vehicle miles traveled grew by nearly 3% a year from 1984 to 2004,

Which is nothing like what demand has grown worldwide in that time.

> the rate of growth slowed suddenly in 2005 and 2006 and has declined since."

Not world wide it hasnt, and thats what matters for the price of crude.

> http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/06/chart-of-the-da.html

> "Drivers in the US traveled 1.4 billion fewer highway miles, and 20 billion miles for all public roads compared to
> last years, or 1.8% less. Cummulatively, 2008 is down 2.1% from 2007"

And world demand has increased by a lot more than that.

> I'm confident it's beginning to have an effect on supply / pricing.

More fool you, it isnt. It has in fact gone thru the roof to historical highs over that time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: air conditioning in two-story house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66c55f1e21d65566?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 5:10 pm
From: "Lou"

"MarieD" <abc@123.com> wrote in message
news:dWxhk.4414$KI7.1881@newsfe08.iad...
> We have a two-story house, and one a/c unit. The upstairs rooms are
terribly
> hot in the summertime. It doesn't even feel like cold air is coming out of
> the vents if the temperatures go above 85F outside. Fans do NOT help. We
> were told to check in the attic to see if the cold air is leaking out
> somewhere up there. When the temps are getting up to 100F, it's just about
> unbearable upstairs. Does anyone have any ideas? Saturday my husband is
> going to go into the attic to check for leaks.
>
> I have tried keeping the doors closed upstairs, and also keeping them all
> open. Neither makes a difference. And I do block the windows from letting
> the sun through. btw the windows are new, double-paned, supposed to be
good
> at keeping the air from leaking in/out.
>
It sounds like you're talking about central air conditioning that uses the
same vents as the furnace. Cold air is heavier and denser than warm air,
and a fan that's adequate for blowing hot air around the house in the winter
may be too weak to deliver sufficient cold air in the summer.

Have you checked that the ducts are clean and haven't been closed off?

I had this problem when I first moved into my house. I bought a few vent
booster fans for the upstairs. They sit on top of the floor vents and plug
into an electrical outlet. When the air conditioning starts blowing cold
air, a temperature sensor in the booster notices and turns on the fan,
increasing the air flow several fold. These things cost $10-$20 each, and
they made a big difference in my house.

They can be adjusted for heat or cool - in the winter, the upstairs office
is the room furthest away from my furnace, and it was always chilly. Using
one of these fans in that room in the winter made a world of difference.

On the off chance that your house is similar to mine - I have a two car
garage that's built into the house. A couple of bedrooms are located above
the garage. The first summer I was here, those bedrooms were hot as all get
out in the evening. I stopped putting the cars in the garage at night and
parked in the driveway instead. A car that's been running a while gives off
a lot of heat after it's turned off, and that heat has to go somewhere.
That simple change dropped the evening temperature in those two rooms at
least 10 degrees. And of course, when the weather turns cool, the cars get
parked in the garage so that heat helps warm things up.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:35 pm
From: "MarieD"

"Walter" <me@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:4886a433$0$13880$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com...
> Can you afford a swamp cooler? Mine is set in the middle of
> my upper floor. Works great.

I actually had to look that one up to see what it was. If I found the right
thing, it puts humidity into the air? The air here is extremely humid (I am
in South Carolina and summers here are really nasty) and to put more in it
would make it worse.

> Do you use your fans to pull the hot air out of the upper floor to
> the outside

No, the idea of even opening the windows right now sounds awful! I use
bedroom fans in the rooms to try and help move the air around.
Marie

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:37 pm
From: "MarieD"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-70D22F.07000023072008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> Its impossible to make specific recommendations about this problem
> without the slightest idea of where in the world you live or the
> construction of your home.

I understand, but I figured I could get general ideas about what to look
for. I did get some good ideas!

You and your husband should probably talk
> with neighbors to see what they recommend, as presumably they are in the
> same situation as you. You also might be better off consulting with a
> specialist in that area who knows how to check for these things. Ask
> your neighbors for a recommendation.

We have the only two story home in my immediate area and many of the houses
on my street are doublewides.
Marie

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:45 pm
From: "MarieD"

"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c39a70b-e3e2-4e2d-806b-ac84af056518@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
<<Attic fan to lower temperature of attic and more attic insulation to
keep the heat from coming into the house. Close downstair vents so
all cool air goes through upstair vents. I doubt cold air is leaking
out up there since cold air drifts lower and hot air raises.
Downstairs are usually cooler than upstairs. You might have to get
some kind of vent fans for the upstair fans to help draw the cool air
upstairs if closing the downstair vents don't work.>>

Thank you! We just bought this house back in the winter, and with this being
our first summer in it, we just discovered this problem. Today, we actually
went into the attic and realized the insulation is majorly insufficient.
Then, my husband decided to take one of the vents off the ceiling, and the
ductwork wasn't even connected right and was angled to where the air was
blowing into the attic! No wonder it's been so freaking hot. We went through
the whole house, and found 4-5 rooms where this was the case. Shoddy
ductwork. So those were fixed, and we are planning to close off some of the
downstairs vents. Thanks for the suggestions!
The previous owners had bought and "flipped" this house. We've had to go
over alot of plumbing problems, and now the ducting(i am not sure of the
terminology). Alot of the electrical wiring is backwards and their painting
and carpentry had been pretty bad. I am shocked that someone got paid for
doing such shitty work as this.
Marie

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:52 pm
From: "MarieD"

"Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:OLPhk.355$X2.208@trnddc03...
> I had this problem when I first moved into my house. I bought a few vent
> booster fans for the upstairs. They sit on top of the floor vents and
> plug
> into an electrical outlet. When the air conditioning starts blowing cold
> air, a temperature sensor in the booster notices and turns on the fan,
> increasing the air flow several fold. These things cost $10-$20 each, and
> they made a big difference in my house.

Thanks for the suggestion. We went through the house today and fixed alot of
the problem (it's our first summer here, and it wasn't something we thought
to look at in the wintertime, see my other posts). If those don't make it
well enough, we will look into the booster fans. The vents are on the
ceiling.

> They can be adjusted for heat or cool - in the winter, the upstairs office
> is the room furthest away from my furnace, and it was always chilly.
> Using
> one of these fans in that room in the winter made a world of difference.

Oh our problem in the winter is the upstairs rooms are suffocatingly hot.
But after all our vent discussion today I believe we will restrict the
airflow through the upstairs rooms.

> On the off chance that your house is similar to mine - I have a two car
> garage that's built into the house. A couple of bedrooms are located
> above
> the garage. The first summer I was here, those bedrooms were hot as all
> get
> out in the evening. I stopped putting the cars in the garage at night and
> parked in the driveway instead. A car that's been running a while gives
> off
> a lot of heat after it's turned off, and that heat has to go somewhere.
> That simple change dropped the evening temperature in those two rooms at
> least 10 degrees. And of course, when the weather turns cool, the cars
> get
> parked in the garage so that heat helps warm things up.

One of the rooms in this house was a garage that is now closed in as a room
in the house. The insulation is great in this room, and the best thing is
when my daughters have friends over, I don't hear a sound with the door
closed.
I'd love to have seen pictures of this house before so much was done to it.
Marie

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oxygen Bars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/398f387eaa18b611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 6:07 pm
From: NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov

Dancing Queen <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

>we have been having lots of forest fires nearby and I went to get my
>oxygen tank
>refilled , but they won't w/o a prescription.
>Seems like you should be able to buy O2. Medical grade. There is not
>such restriction on welding O.
>but, down the street you can pony up to a Oxygen Bar and get scented air.
>How pure , I dunno.
>Why is O2 regulated?

Because it keeps the MD's in yachts and allows them to afford Harvard
for their kids. God forbid you might prescribe for yourself! They, of
course, will tell you about the incredible risks you run in doing this
without medical supervision ... so will the plumbers and
electricians... same real reason.

If you get a friendly supply house (doesn't sound like it's the case
though) you could buy a welding tank (about $80 near me) and they'll
also sell you the necessary fittings to adapt it to your mask.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 7:30 pm
From: "Art"

Woolite cleaners in the blue pump bottle available at any supermarket do a
really good job of spot cleaning. They make one for pets too usually sold
next to each other.

I would get that and a good vacuum cleaner for your next rug. See ratings
in Consumer Reports.

According to their issue on carpeting a long time ago, look for uniform
carpets as ones that clean the best. Ones that have varying height areas do
not allow good suction by vaccum cleaners.

If you insist on cleaning your rug well, I don't think you can beat rug
doctor rentable at most supermarkets. You want the models that vibrate. We
had an incredibly bad mess to clean up that made me want to grab a knife and
cut out part of the rug but I got it clean as new renting a rug doctor.

<steverossiter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:e247b57d-b8a7-4d30-b6fa-47fcafea23b5@u36g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> We will be remodeling our home soon and eventually replacing the
> berber rug that is in place now. We actually wanted to do the remodel
> sooner and as a result have been pretty neglectful of the rug thinking
> it would be replaced sooner. It is in pretty rough shape (just normal
> traffic dirt and grime, no oil-based stains) and certain areas might
> need a scrubber machine.
>
> I thought we could rent a scrubber at Lowes and then schedule a
> professional to do the hot water extraction just afterwards.
>
> If this sounds workable can anyone recommend a moderately priced
> general purpose spot remover and shampoo for a rug destined for the
> trash in about four months.
>
> I was going to call on Stanley Steamer for the steam cleaning but
> some of the comments make me worry that perhaps the care won't be
> taken to get as much water back out of the rug as possible which could
> be a problem with berber.
>
> It is a small house (3 bed, hallway, and family room) with about 1000
> sq ft of rug in So. Cal.
>
> Thanks for the advice,
>
> Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHOKING HAZARD: Recall of "It's MY Binky" pacifiers.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cac0d8b10801e5b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 8:11 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08336.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 22, 2008
Release #08-336

Firm's Recall Hotline: (888) 689-9444
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908
It�s MY Binky Recalls Personalized Pacifiers Due to Choking Hazard

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in
cooperation with the firm named below, today announced a voluntary
recall of the following consumer product. Consumers should stop using
recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed.

Name of Product: It�s My Binky�s Personalized Pacifiers

Units: About 115,000

Importer: It�s My Binky, of Henderson, Nev.

Hazard: The pacifier button, ring handle and shield with nipple can
detach, posing a choking hazard to infants.

Incidents/Injuries: It�s My Binky has received two reports of the
pacifier button, ring handle and shield with nipple detaching. No
injuries have been reported.

Description: The recalled pacifiers have "Japlo" imprinted on the
front of the pacifier shield at the bottom, center. The pacifiers were
sold in blue, white and pink with various words or designs printed on
the button of the pacifier. Examples of text and symbols printed on
recalled Japlo pacifiers include but are not limited to the following:
BLUE (pacifier w/text) WHITE (pacifier w/text) PINK (pacifier w/text)
Image of a skull (no text) image of a skull (no text) spoiled
stud muffin stud muffin princess
prince charming prince charming my mom rocks
my mom rocks princess mute button
mute button my mom rocks my dad rocks
my dad rocks mute button insomniac
momma�s boy little monster future ceo
insomniac future ceo flirt
future ceo daddy�s girl daddy�s girl
little monster born to shop born to shop
flirt
bad to the bone

Sold at: Nordstrom and baby boutique retail stores nationwide and
online at www.itsmybinky.com from February 2006 through June 2008 for
between $5 and $6.

Manufactured in: Malaysia

Remedy: Consumers should immediately take these pacifiers away from
children and return them to the store where purchased or contact the
firm if purchased online to receive a free replacement pacifier.

Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact It�s My Binky
toll-free at (888) 689-9444 between 8 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Monday
through Friday PT or visit the firm�s website at www.itsmybinky.com or
e-mail Danielle Riiber at Danielle@itsmybinky.com

Media Contact: Danielle Riiber at (702) 622-6261.

==============================================================================

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