http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Are you worried BP goes under and the UK becomes the 51st State? - 14
messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd00e89370885700?hl=en
* Round Two Of "The Great Bush Depression" Now In Sight! Retail Sales Down In
May! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/620d0f5b583eb214?hl=en
* Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV? - 8
messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/901b5c1615400969?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you worried BP goes under and the UK becomes the 51st State?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd00e89370885700?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 11:39 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Jim A wrote:
> On 06/12/2010 04:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>> Yes, then the UK will turn its attention to other sources of energy.
>> Germany has done it... why not you?
>
> Good question. It's shameful we're not doing more.
>
> One reason I suspect (which is no excuse) is in the UK we have a much
> higher population density. Nobody wants to live next to a wind
> turbine so very few get built.
>
> I hope we'll soon catch up with our neighbours in Europe by using
> offshore wind, tidal and wave energy.
>
> Certainly I don't want more nuclear here either. Scotland got that
> one sorted - they have decided no more nuclear - why can't we decide
> the same?
Because its a stupid approach. Nukes are much more viable than wind, tidal and wave energy.
> I generate my own elecricity on the bicycle with my dynamo - I know it's not much but it's a start! :-)
Try heating your house with that.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 1:27 pm
From: Jim A
On 06/12/2010 07:39 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Jim A wrote:
>> On 06/12/2010 04:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>>> Yes, then the UK will turn its attention to other sources of energy.
>>> Germany has done it... why not you?
>>
>> Good question. It's shameful we're not doing more.
>>
>> One reason I suspect (which is no excuse) is in the UK we have a much
>> higher population density. Nobody wants to live next to a wind
>> turbine so very few get built.
>>
>> I hope we'll soon catch up with our neighbours in Europe by using
>> offshore wind, tidal and wave energy.
>>
>> Certainly I don't want more nuclear here either. Scotland got that
>> one sorted - they have decided no more nuclear - why can't we decide
>> the same?
>
> Because its a stupid approach. Nukes are much more viable than wind, tidal and wave energy.
>
>> I generate my own elecricity on the bicycle with my dynamo - I know it's not much but it's a start! :-)
>
> Try heating your house with that.
ok.
--
www.slowbicyclemovement.org - enjoy the ride
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 1:59 pm
From: a real cheapskate
On Jun 12, 2:27�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> a real cheapskate wrote:
> > Frankly I HOPE BP GOES BANKRUPT!
>
> More fool you.
>
> > Companies who put profit over safety endager everyone!
>
> Nope, doesnt endanger anyone in the US mid west for example.
>
> > So assume BP goes bankrupt their substantial assets
> > would be sold off, paying all claims for damages.
>
> A lot more money is available from their ongoing cash flow.
>
> > the stock holders would loose big time, such is one of the risks of stocks.
> > the name BP would disappear, current BP management would be out of work.
>
> They'd just work for one of the other operations that took over the assets.
>
> > the franchise BP stations would be sold and rebranded into other names,
>
> Nope, just rebranded with other names.
>
> > the assets would continue in operation by other hopefully safer companies.
>
> No evidence that any of the others do things any safer.
>
> > the death of BP is critical to everyones safety!
>
> Pure fantasy.
>
> > other companies will take notice and decide safety must be above profit.
>
> Pure fantasy. They have already noticed that using proper blowout protection
> avoids the immense cost of a cleanup when the shit hits the fan.
>
> > if this fails to occur the next disaster might be a nuke power company
> > who puts profit over safety, and turns a big chunk of our country into
> > a death zone where no one can live for a 100,000 years while raising
> > the worlds cancer rate.
>
> That didnt even happen with Chernobyl.
>
> > or a bio engineering company that accidently releases a artifical life
> > form, killing millions, with the potential to wipe out humans on earth......
>
> Another silly little fantasy.
>
> > BP needs to die for everyones safety!!
>
> Another silly little pig ignorant fantasy.
I gather you arent aware of the large dead zone around chernobyl?
thousands of communities abandoned, left to rot or torn down. People
were forced out.
Too dangerous for humans the cancer risk is too high.
And every NUKE plant in the US runs that same risk if the terrorists
bomb or find a way to interrupt cooling water to the waste core
storage pools. They arent in hardened buildings just metal ones....
not resistant to terrorists attacks
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:02 pm
From: a real cheapskate
BP had over 800 citations for major safety violations, in the same
time period sunoco 8 exxon 1
BP had the texas city refinery explosion traced to cost cutting. 14
died
BP had the alaska oil pipeline spill, seems they never dids any major
maintence on the pipeline since it was built
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:09 pm
From: Jim A
On 06/12/2010 10:02 PM, a real cheapskate wrote:
> BP had over 800 citations for major safety violations, in the same
> time period sunoco 8 exxon 1
>
> BP had the texas city refinery explosion traced to cost cutting. 14
> died
>
> BP had the alaska oil pipeline spill, seems they never dids any major
> maintence on the pipeline since it was built
Ain't Google a great thing?
--
www.slowbicyclemovement.org - enjoy the ride
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:21 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
On Jun 12, 2:38 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>
>
>
> Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > On Jun 12, 9:50 am, Derek C <del.copel...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On Jun 12, 2:34 pm, a real cheapskate <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Frankly I HOPE BP GOES BANKRUPT!
>
> >>> Companies who put profit over safety endager everyone!
>
> >>> So assume BP goes bankrupt their substantial assets would be sold
> >>> off, paying all claims for damages.
>
> >>> the stock holders would loose big time, such is one of the risks of
> >>> stocks.
>
> >>> the name BP would disappear, current BP management would be out of
> >>> work.
>
> >>> the franchise BP stations would be sold and rebranded into other
> >>> names, the assets would continue in operation by other hopefully
> >>> safer companies.
>
> >>> the death of BP is critical to everyones safety!
>
> >>> other companies will take notice and decide safety must be above
> >>> profit.
>
> >>> if this fails to occur the next disaster might be a nuke power
> >>> company who puts profit over safety, and turns a big chunk of our
> >>> country into a death zone where no one can live for a 100,000 years
> >>> while raising the worlds cancer rate.
>
> >>> or a bio engineering company that accidently releases a artifical
> >>> life form, killing millions, with the potential to wipe out humans
> >>> on earth......
>
> >>> BP needs to die for everyones safety!!
>
> >> The death of BP (BRITISH Petroleum) would just allow the big US
> >> companies to take over the same markets, to the great detriment of
> >> the UK economy. Do you really want that?
>
> >> Derek C
>
> > Yes, then the UK will turn its attention to other sources of energy.
> > Germany has done it... why not you?
>
> > It's like I say, "Germany lost the war and won the peace."
>
> And Japan didnt. It never did see say an employed engineer end up
> with the same real living standards that one in the US ended up with.
>
> > "The share of electricity from renewable energy in Germany has
> > increased from 6.3 percent in 2000 to about 16.1 percent in 2009.
>
> And the result of that is MUCH higher electricity costs for german consumers and industry.
>
> The french approach makes a hell of a lot more sense,
> they generate 90% of their electricity using nukes.
>
> > More than 9 billion euros (US$11.31 billion) was invested in new
> > renewable energy installations in Germany in 2006. Some 214,000
> > people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector
> > in 2006, especially in small and medium sized companies. Over half
> > of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act."
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany
>
> Pity about the prices that consumers and industry pays for electricity.
If higher energy costs encourage savings, then it would in a welcome
outcome.
Conversely, our low prices promote the SUVs and all the waste out
there.
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:23 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
On Jun 12, 2:39 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim A wrote:
> > On 06/12/2010 04:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> >> Yes, then the UK will turn its attention to other sources of energy.
> >> Germany has done it... why not you?
>
> > Good question. It's shameful we're not doing more.
>
> > One reason I suspect (which is no excuse) is in the UK we have a much
> > higher population density. Nobody wants to live next to a wind
> > turbine so very few get built.
>
> > I hope we'll soon catch up with our neighbours in Europe by using
> > offshore wind, tidal and wave energy.
>
> > Certainly I don't want more nuclear here either. Scotland got that
> > one sorted - they have decided no more nuclear - why can't we decide
> > the same?
>
> Because its a stupid approach. Nukes are much more viable than wind, tidal and wave energy.
>
> > I generate my own elecricity on the bicycle with my dynamo - I know it's not much but it's a start! :-)
>
> Try heating your house with that.
Perhaps it's a nice way to assume personal responsibility for the
problems we all feed. All other ways require a wasteful bureaucracy to
one degree or another.
With a bike, you just go.
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:27 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
On Jun 12, 5:09 pm, Jim A <j...@averyjim.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 06/12/2010 10:02 PM, a real cheapskate wrote:
>
> > BP had over 800 citations for major safety violations, in the same
> > time period sunoco 8 exxon 1
>
> > BP had the texas city refinery explosion traced to cost cutting. 14
> > died
>
> > BP had the alaska oil pipeline spill, seems they never dids any major
> > maintence on the pipeline since it was built
>
> Ain't Google a great thing?
>
> --www.slowbicyclemovement.org- enjoy the ride
Yep, part of my wisdom I get from there. ;)
Actually I only find the details that support my wisdom of frugality.
I think wisdom can only be found on the street. Maybe I'm wrong
though.
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:32 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
It's important that people know where my wisdom comes from. It's not
from pot for sure...
On Jun 12, 5:23 pm, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> nah ... i didnt bother watching it. i guess im over-satired. i find it
> impressive how much time of the day you spend on your anti-religious
> meanderings ... i just figured that you MUST have a big bag of pot ...
> or something ...
I just got a mango tree, which is the Tree of Knowledge.
Then the birds come and tell me what's going in the jungle. They seek
refuge in my green patio from all the dangers out there.
Maybe I should call my patio the Garden of Eden.
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:47 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
a real cheapskate wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> a real cheapskate wrote:
>>> Frankly I HOPE BP GOES BANKRUPT!
>> More fool you.
>>> Companies who put profit over safety endager everyone!
>> Nope, doesnt endanger anyone in the US mid west for example.
>>> So assume BP goes bankrupt their substantial assets
>>> would be sold off, paying all claims for damages.
>> A lot more money is available from their ongoing cash flow.
>>> the stock holders would loose big time, such is one of the risks of stocks.
>>> the name BP would disappear, current BP management would be out of work.
>> They'd just work for one of the other operations that took over the assets.
>>> the franchise BP stations would be sold and rebranded into other names,
>> Nope, just rebranded with other names.
>>> the assets would continue in operation by other hopefully safer companies.
>> No evidence that any of the others do things any safer.
>>> the death of BP is critical to everyones safety!
>> Pure fantasy.
>>> other companies will take notice and decide safety must be above profit.
>> Pure fantasy. They have already noticed that using proper blowout protection
>> avoids the immense cost of a cleanup when the shit hits the fan.
>>> if this fails to occur the next disaster might be a nuke power company
>>> who puts profit over safety, and turns a big chunk of our country into
>>> a death zone where no one can live for a 100,000 years while raising
>>> the worlds cancer rate.
>> That didnt even happen with Chernobyl.
>>> or a bio engineering company that accidently releases a artifical life
>>> form, killing millions, with the potential to wipe out humans on earth......
>> Another silly little fantasy.
>>> BP needs to die for everyones safety!!
>> Another silly little pig ignorant fantasy.
> I gather you arent aware of the large dead zone around chernobyl?
Taint one anymore.
> thousands of communities abandoned, left to rot or torn down.
Complete pack of pig ignorant lies.
> People were forced out.
Only temporarily.
> Too dangerous for humans the cancer risk is too high.
Another pig ignorant lie.
> And every NUKE plant in the US runs that same risk if the terrorists bomb
Wrong, as always. Perfectly possible to ensure that the nuke shuts down
properly if the authoritys are stupid enough to let a bomb get anywhere near it.
> or find a way to interrupt cooling water to the waste core storage pools.
ALL nukes are designed to shut down when the cooling water fails etc.
> They arent in hardened buildings just metal ones....
Wrong, as always.
> not resistant to terrorists attacks
Wrong, as always.
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
a real cheapskate wrote:
> BP had over 800 citations for major safety violations,
> in the same time period sunoco 8 exxon 1
What matters is how much exploration work those others did in the same time.
> BP had the texas city refinery explosion traced to cost cutting. 14 died
It aint the only refinery explosion.
> BP had the alaska oil pipeline spill, seems they never dids
> any major maintence on the pipeline since it was built
spills arent due to the lack of pipeline maintenance.
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2:38 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>>
>>
>>
>> Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>>> On Jun 12, 9:50 am, Derek C <del.copel...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 12, 2:34 pm, a real cheapskate <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Frankly I HOPE BP GOES BANKRUPT!
>>
>>>>> Companies who put profit over safety endager everyone!
>>
>>>>> So assume BP goes bankrupt their substantial assets would be sold
>>>>> off, paying all claims for damages.
>>
>>>>> the stock holders would loose big time, such is one of the risks
>>>>> of stocks.
>>
>>>>> the name BP would disappear, current BP management would be out of
>>>>> work.
>>
>>>>> the franchise BP stations would be sold and rebranded into other
>>>>> names, the assets would continue in operation by other hopefully
>>>>> safer companies.
>>
>>>>> the death of BP is critical to everyones safety!
>>
>>>>> other companies will take notice and decide safety must be above
>>>>> profit.
>>
>>>>> if this fails to occur the next disaster might be a nuke power
>>>>> company who puts profit over safety, and turns a big chunk of our
>>>>> country into a death zone where no one can live for a 100,000
>>>>> years while raising the worlds cancer rate.
>>
>>>>> or a bio engineering company that accidently releases a artifical
>>>>> life form, killing millions, with the potential to wipe out humans
>>>>> on earth......
>>
>>>>> BP needs to die for everyones safety!!
>>
>>>> The death of BP (BRITISH Petroleum) would just allow the big US
>>>> companies to take over the same markets, to the great detriment of
>>>> the UK economy. Do you really want that?
>>
>>>> Derek C
>>
>>> Yes, then the UK will turn its attention to other sources of energy.
>>> Germany has done it... why not you?
>>
>>> It's like I say, "Germany lost the war and won the peace."
>>
>> And Japan didnt. It never did see say an employed engineer end up
>> with the same real living standards that one in the US ended up with.
>>
>>> "The share of electricity from renewable energy in Germany has
>>> increased from 6.3 percent in 2000 to about 16.1 percent in 2009.
>>
>> And the result of that is MUCH higher electricity costs for german
>> consumers and industry.
>>
>> The french approach makes a hell of a lot more sense,
>> they generate 90% of their electricity using nukes.
>>
>>> More than 9 billion euros (US$11.31 billion) was invested in new
>>> renewable energy installations in Germany in 2006. Some 214,000
>>> people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector
>>> in 2006, especially in small and medium sized companies. Over half
>>> of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act."
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany
>> Pity about the prices that consumers and industry pays for electricity.
> If higher energy costs encourage savings,
They dont. They in fact REDUCE savings because those higher energy costs have to be incurred.
> then it would in a welcome outcome.
Nope, that would fuck the economy, stupid.
> Conversely, our low prices promote the SUVs and all the waste out there.
Wrong with ELECTRICITY prices.
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 5:05 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
OK, let's be honest, the CAMPAIGN BIKE FOR PEACE is not going to cut
it. More people masturbate than ride a bike, perhaps because it's
safer. So this other campaign is becoming very popular...
You know, I just named the official song of the campaign:
***OFFICIAL SONG OF THE CAMPAIGN: LIBERTANGO***
POWERFUL, LIBERATING, SEXY...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu_X-6LLaM
***
Other liberating campaigns are also growing fast. I hope you enjoyed
the music.
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 5:07 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
OK, let's be honest, the CAMPAIGN BIKE FOR PEACE is not going to cut
it. More people masturbate than ride a bike, perhaps because it's
safer. So this other campaign is becoming very popular...
You know, I just named the official song of the campaign:
***OFFICIAL SONG OF THE CAMPAIGN: LIBERTANGO***
POWERFUL, LIBERATING, SEXY...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu_X-6LLaM
***
Other liberating campaigns are also growing fast. I hope you enjoyed
the music.
http://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Round Two Of "The Great Bush Depression" Now In Sight! Retail Sales
Down In May!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/620d0f5b583eb214?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 11:57 am
From: George
On 6/12/2010 10:22 AM, freeisbest wrote:
> On Jun 11, 8:50 am, Sigmond Fraud<slipuva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The long-predicted 13.5-percent national UNEMPLOYMENT rate
> > by mid-2011 is steadily becoming reality.
>>
>> Yet U.S. jobless, education-less, racist dumb'uns prefer to blame
>> Obama!
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sad, isn't it, but that's what dumb MEANS - (a) always believing
> Repubs when they bray that the free market merry-go-round will never,
> ever stop, no matter what THEY do; (b) blaming exactly the people who
> DIDN'T make the mess; and (c) continuing to suck up to the Free
> Marketeers who skimmed all the money out of the U.S. Treasury.
Do we agree that the Congress is the only branch that can spend money?
Do we agree that the democrat Congress is the one who bailed out Wall St
(there was a strong democrat majority, if they are somehow better they
simply could have refused, you may also remember that then senator Obama
voted to reward the Wall St pirates by bailing them out)?
Given the above do you see why the voters are firing politicians who
represent the status quo?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > =====
> > "Retail sales drop 1.2 percent in May"
> > By MARTIN CRUTSINGER
> > The Associated Press
> > Friday, June 11, 2010; 8:34 AM
> >
> > WASHINGTON -- Retail sales plunged in May by the largest
> > amount in eight months as consumers slashed spending on
> > everything from cars to clothing. The big drop raises new
> > worries about the durability of the economic recovery.
> -snip-
> >
> > The big decline cast new doubts about the strength of
> > the economic recovery. Consumer spending accounts for
> > 70 percent of total economic activity.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> But.. but... but them there Nobel economists down to WalMart told
> us - exporting jobs don't hurt nuthin'!
>
>
> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/11/AR201...
>
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 12:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
George wrote:
> On 6/12/2010 10:22 AM, freeisbest wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 8:50 am, Sigmond Fraud<slipuva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > The long-predicted 13.5-percent national UNEMPLOYMENT rate
>> > by mid-2011 is steadily becoming reality.
>>>
>>> Yet U.S. jobless, education-less, racist dumb'uns prefer to blame
>>> Obama!
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sad, isn't it, but that's what dumb MEANS - (a) always
>> believing Repubs when they bray that the free market merry-go-round
>> will never, ever stop, no matter what THEY do; (b) blaming exactly the people
>> who DIDN'T make the mess; and (c) continuing to suck up to the Free
>> Marketeers who skimmed all the money out of the U.S. Treasury.
> Do we agree that the Congress is the only branch that can spend money?
Nope, most obviously with the fucking over of Afghanistan. The Prez can just order that.
> Do we agree that the democrat Congress is the one who bailed out Wall St
Yes, to avoid another great depression or worse
and much higher costs than the bailout cost.
> (there was a strong democrat majority, if they are somehow better
> they simply could have refused, you may also remember that then
> senator Obama voted to reward the Wall St pirates by bailing them out)?
It wasnt Wall St pirates that completely imploded the entire world financial system, AGAIN.
> Given the above do you see why the voters are firing politicians who represent the status quo?
Yes, thats why the repugs got the bums rush from Congress.
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > =====
>> > "Retail sales drop 1.2 percent in May"
>> > By MARTIN CRUTSINGER
>> > The Associated Press
>> > Friday, June 11, 2010; 8:34 AM
>> >
>> > WASHINGTON -- Retail sales plunged in May by the largest
>> > amount in eight months as consumers slashed spending on
>> > everything from cars to clothing. The big drop raises new
>> > worries about the durability of the economic recovery.
>> -snip-
>> >
>> > The big decline cast new doubts about the strength of
>> > the economic recovery. Consumer spending accounts for
>> > 70 percent of total economic activity.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> But.. but... but them there Nobel economists down to WalMart
>> told us - exporting jobs don't hurt nuthin'!
>>
>>
>> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/11/AR201...
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:43 pm
From: Michael Coburn
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:57:24 -0400, George wrote:
> On 6/12/2010 10:22 AM, freeisbest wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 8:50 am, Sigmond Fraud<slipuva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > The long-predicted 13.5-percent national UNEMPLOYMENT rate by
>> > mid-2011 is steadily becoming reality.
>>>
>>> Yet U.S. jobless, education-less, racist dumb'uns prefer to blame
>>> Obama!
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sad, isn't it, but that's what dumb MEANS - (a) always believing
>> Repubs when they bray that the free market merry-go-round will never,
>> ever stop, no matter what THEY do; (b) blaming exactly the people who
>> DIDN'T make the mess; and (c) continuing to suck up to the Free
>> Marketeers who skimmed all the money out of the U.S. Treasury.
>
>
> Do we agree that the Congress is the only branch that can spend money?
Not actually true, but it is DESIGNED to be that way. When the Commander
in Thief (holding ALL THE INTELLIGENCE DATA) puts the American soldiers
in harm's way it is like a hostage situation.
> Do we agree that the democrat Congress is the one who bailed out Wall St
> (there was a strong democrat majority, if they are somehow better they
> simply could have refused, you may also remember that then senator Obama
> voted to reward the Wall St pirates by bailing them out)?
We agree that the bailout was an "Iraq Redux". The Administration and the
Fed and the Treasury held all the cards and told the congress that a
financial mushroom cloud would ensue if there was no bailout. The
Republican lying pig party used the occasion to mark out its
"independence" of George Pinocchio Bush. It was not sufficient however
to stop the American people from throwing the Republican pigs out of
office.
> Given the above do you see why the voters are firing politicians who
> represent the status quo?
Yes. The people are a lot smarter than the politicians believe. The
people KNOW that all that borrowing and indentured servitude of the
productive members of the economy was not necessary. But the pigs keep
trumpeting the debt. A continuing to lie. The Democrats have joined the
chorus.
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > =====
>> > "Retail sales drop 1.2 percent in May" By MARTIN CRUTSINGER
>> > The Associated Press
>> > Friday, June 11, 2010; 8:34 AM
>> >
>> > WASHINGTON -- Retail sales plunged in May by the largest amount in
>> > eight months as consumers slashed spending on everything from cars
>> > to clothing. The big drop raises new worries about the durability
>> > of the economic recovery.
>> -snip-
>> >
>> > The big decline cast new doubts about the strength of the economic
>> > recovery. Consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of total
>> > economic activity.
>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> But.. but... but them there Nobel economists down to WalMart told
>> us - exporting jobs don't hurt nuthin'!
>>
>>
>> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/11/
AR201...
>>
--
"Senate rules don't trump the Constitution" -- http://GreaterVoice.org/60
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/901b5c1615400969?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 12:38 pm
From: Tegger
Judy Zappacosta <zappajNOSPAM@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
news:cf59a74a7089a80db03c32d825a0b241@tioat.net:
> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>
> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true value", which
> is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told them they) paid.
>
> I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me car quotes by
> email if I gave them all my personal information.
>
> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>
> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
What does it matter? Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships in
your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
--
Tegger
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tegger wrote
> Judy Zappacosta zappajNOSPAM@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid wrote
>> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true value", which
>> is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told them they) paid.
>> I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
>> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
>> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
> What does it matter?
It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a very
desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke etc.
> Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
> in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
Fraid not.
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:03 pm
From: a real cheapskate
On Jun 12, 5:01�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tegger wrote
>
> > Judy Zappacosta zappajNOS...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid wrote
> >> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
> >> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true value", which
> >> is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told them they) paid.
> >> I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
> >> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
> >> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
> >> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
> > What does it matter?
>
> It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a very
> desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke etc.
>
> > Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
> > in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
>
> Fraid not.
dealer cost is intentially obscured by a lot of manufacturer specials
givebacks and advertising sharing.
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 2:51 pm
From: Jeff
Judy Zappacosta <zappajNOSPAM@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
news:258f43e2f24c75cd9f97f3704df13af8@tioat.net:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 04:14:06 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> It isnt possible in the ultimate, because the rebate a particular
>> dealer gets from the manufacturer varys considerably, particularly
>> with how they finance the cars they have on the floor etc.
>
> But what's the closest we can get?
>
> I am hoping to get closer than to 'value' pricing at Edmunds:
> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/102203/article.html
>
> Is there a way to get factory invoice at least?
>
Most invoice prices I have checked in the past run pretty close to 10% less
than the list price for many car makes.
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:02 pm
From: Tegger
a real cheapskate <hallerb@aol.com> wrote in
news:ea84883c-1804-4ece-9115-98f4c2524e85@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 12, 5:01�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tegger wrote
>>
>> > Judy Zappacosta zappajNOS...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid
>> > wrote
>> >> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>> >> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true
>> >> value", wh
> ich
>> >> is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told them they)
>> >> paid. I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
>> >> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
>> >> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>> >> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
>> > What does it matter?
>>
>> It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a
>> very desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke
>> etc.
>>
>> > Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
>> > in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
>>
>> Fraid not.
>
> dealer cost is intentially obscured by a lot of manufacturer specials
> givebacks and advertising sharing.
>
The point is that there will be a price below which they will simply
refuse to sell to you because they know somebody else will come along
and pay above that amount. That's why this "dealer cost" thing is
useless. The only useful thing is determining which dealer will give you
the lowest on-the-road quote. Therefore, you get on-the-road quotes and
pick the lowest one.
Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the salesman
and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you into caving-in and
signing for a higher price than they quoted.
Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too low.
End of story.
--
Tegger
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
a real cheapskate wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Tegger wrote
>>> Judy Zappacosta zappajNOS...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid wrote
>>>> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>>>> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true
>>>> value", which is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told
>>>> them they) paid.
>>>> I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
>>>> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
>>>> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>>>> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
>>> What does it matter?
>> It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a
>> very desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke etc.
>>> Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
>>> in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
>> Fraid not.
> dealer cost is intentially obscured by a lot of manufacturer specials
> givebacks and advertising sharing.
What I said elsewhere in different words.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tegger wrote:
> a real cheapskate <hallerb@aol.com> wrote in
> news:ea84883c-1804-4ece-9115-98f4c2524e85@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 12, 5:01�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tegger wrote
>>>
>>>> Judy Zappacosta zappajNOS...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid
>>>> wrote
>>>>> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>>>>> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true
>>>>> value", wh
>> ich
>>>>> is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told them they)
>>>>> paid. I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
>>>>> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
>>>>> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>>>>> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?
>>>> What does it matter?
>>>
>>> It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a
>>> very desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke
>>> etc.
>>>
>>>> Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
>>>> in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.
>>>
>>> Fraid not.
>>
>> dealer cost is intentially obscured by a lot of manufacturer specials
>> givebacks and advertising sharing.
>>
>
>
>
> The point is that there will be a price below which they will simply
> refuse to sell to you because they know somebody else will come along
> and pay above that amount. That's why this "dealer cost" thing is
> useless. The only useful thing is determining which dealer will give
> you the lowest on-the-road quote. Therefore, you get on-the-road
> quotes and pick the lowest one.
>
> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>
> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>
> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too
> low. End of story.
Its never that mindlessly black and white.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 4:54 pm
From: MAS
On 6/12/2010 7:02 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the salesman
> and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you into caving-in and
> signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>
> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>
> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too low.
> End of story.
>
If any car salesman says he can't authorize the deal, without going to
his manager, I walk. One time, I had a salesman tell me he had to speak
to his manager first. I could see his reflection, and pretty much the
whole room, in a mirror while he was in the back room "talking with his
manager." No one else was in the room - he was watching TV for a bit,
while we were supposed to mull over his coming counter-offer. When he
came back out and said the deal was rejected, I left.
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