Frugal Living: Jun 10, 2008

Tuesday, June 10, 2008

26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gasoline "Boycott": The Next Generation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b5aa5d3dc9c38b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:31 pm
From: The Real Bev

Napoleon wrote:

> <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure, though.
>>If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>
> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
> roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
> repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and
> Afgahnistani bridges and roads!

Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if
there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home. If we can't do that,
figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with
life. My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.
But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan
or repair one here.

> Oh! Not to mention all the future
> roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the
> tax-payer money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and
> roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!

If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one
is about public vs private transportation. In case you've forgotten, I
favor private.

>>I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to Death
>>Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to Death Valley.
>>I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to
>>transfer a couple of times, miss a few connections and have overnight
>>layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>
> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
> public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in the
> world?

Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want. I
might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it was
better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.

> (even though Norway seems to do it). What about public
> transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't
> we have that efficient public transportation in America?

Not my problem. I'm retired. I don't go to church. I use my bicycle
for most errands. I use the car for anything I can't do on my bicycle
and I group errands. I've done this for decades, except I've only used
the bicycle since I retired in 1995.

> The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.

They thrive because they provide a service/product that people REALLY
want. Surprise: we still do, we just have to want it a little more
than we used to. We also want residential privacy. Some of us don't
want to be required to interact with people not of our choosing. Some
of us like to plant things and others of us are willing to pay the
gardeners to do it. Personal choice.

The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places. I don't. Neither
do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big
cities, but not everybody wants those advantages. That's another one of
those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.

> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
> that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
> civilized, industrial country on this planet.

Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.

--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
When you stop bitching, you start dying.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 1:26 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:15 -0400, Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net>
wrote:

>Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
>that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
>civilized, industrial country on this planet.

If they truly have Universal Health Care, why doesn't it cover us?

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 2:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Napoleon wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote

>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.

>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
>> roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
>> repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!

> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.

Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.

Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you
go home, the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.

> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with life.

That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work either.

> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and destructive at worst and anything that makes it more
> difficult for
> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.

Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.

> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan or repair one here.

Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the answer was.

>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer
>> money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!

> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one is about public vs private transportation. In
> case you've forgotten, I favor private.

>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to
>>> Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to
>>> Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a
>>> few connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.

>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme
>> places in the world?

> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want. I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public
> transportation if it was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.

>> (even though Norway seems to do it).

Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.

>> What about public transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't we have that efficient
>> public transportation in America?

> Not my problem. I'm retired. I don't go to church. I use my bicycle for most errands. I use the car for anything I
> can't do on my bicycle and I group errands. I've done this for decades, except I've only used the bicycle since I
> retired in 1995.

>> The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.

> They thrive because they provide a service/product that people REALLY want. Surprise: we still do, we just have to
> want it a little more than we used to. We also want residential privacy. Some of us don't want to be required to
> interact with people not of our choosing. Some of us like to plant things and others of us are willing to pay the
> gardeners to do it. Personal choice.

> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.

They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.

> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody wants
> those advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.

>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different - that's why we will never have Universal Health
>> Care like every other civilized, industrial country on this planet.

> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.

Then why do you savage the medical providers ?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 3:24 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>> Napoleon wrote
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.
>
>>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful
>>> "automobile" roads and bridges here in the great US of A that
>>> could have been repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on
>>> destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!
>
>> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if
>> there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.
>
> Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.

We just didn't stomp 'em good enough.

> Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you go home,
> the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.

I'm bothered that apparently under the taliban the opium trade was
reduced to almost nothing but that as soon as they lost power the opium
came back on line. That's the only good thing I've ever heard about the
taliban.

>> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping
>> it out and get on with life.
>
> That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work
> either.

I'm not exactly in control of the situation, am I?

>> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
>> destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
>> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good
>> thing.
>
> Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.

Pity.

>> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in
>> Afghanistan or repair one here.
>
> Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the
> answer was.

You mean the election? There was no viable alternative.

>>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be
>>> repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer money that will
>>> be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh!
>>> We can't talk about the upcoming war!
>
>> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This
>> one is about public vs private transportation. In case you've
>> forgotten, I favor private.
>
>>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going
>>>> to Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA
>>>> to Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but
>>>> I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a few
>>>> connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost
>>>> roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.
>
>>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
>>> public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in
>>> the world?
>
>> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want.
>> I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it
>> was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never
>> is.
>
>>> (even though Norway seems to do it).
>
> Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.

I looked at google earth. Norway is only a bit smaller than California.

>> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.
>
> They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.

A lot of HongKong people moved to the US. So have a lot of Japanese.
So have a lot of EVERYBODY. We must be doing something right.

>> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are
>> advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody wants those
>> advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom"
>> things.
>
>>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different
>>> - that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every
>>> other civilized, industrial country on this planet.
>
>> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.
>
> Then why do you savage the medical providers ?

Huh? I haven't seen all of them, so I can only savage the particular
ones I've dealt with. Of those, the majority have been people I
wouldn't choose to see a second time.

Good ones:
The former dentist who retired and then died.
The dental student who graduated.
The gastroenterologist who was nice and knowledgeable but couldn't help.
A number of really good nurses, one of whom was a doctor in China.
The doctors who listened and actually DID the right thing. Maybe 6.

Bad ones:
The dental student who couldn't even get cleaning right and who hurt
like hell.
The cardiologist who didn't notice the lack of blood tests for
continuing coumadin therapy.
The visiting nurse who didn't report back to the cardiologist about not
doing the tests.
The orthopedists who can't figure out what makes it hurt even with MRIs.
The dentist who hurt and put inappropriate pressure on a surviving
tooth in order to remove its neighbor, possibly causing root rot.
The doctors who decided "Well, she's pretty old, what can she expect?"
The doctors who made it obvious that they didn't give a shit.
The nursing supervisors ditto.
The managers who understaffed the nursing facility. God help the
patients who didn't have family staying with them 12 hours a day, which
wasn't long enough anyway.
The cardiologist who mistook an electrolyte imbalance for something
requiring a week in intensive care and a temporary pacemaker.

I could go on...

--
Cheers, Bev
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I bought a tape called "Subliminal Advertising"
The next day I bought 47 more.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 6:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Napoleon wrote
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure,
>>>>> though. If you find that we have, take pix and report back.

>>>> Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful
>>>> "automobile" roads and bridges here in the great US of A that
>>>> could have been repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on
>>>> destroying Iraqi and Afgahnistani bridges and roads!

>>> Why do you assume that's a choice? My personal feeling is that if there's a threat to us, wipe it out and go home.

>> Easier said than done. That was tried in WW1 and it didnt work.

> We just didn't stomp 'em good enough.

Not even possible to do that.

>> Hasnt been possible in Afghanistan either. As soon as you go home, the talibums just come out of the woodwork again.

> I'm bothered that apparently under the taliban the opium trade was reduced to almost nothing

Thats a lie.

> but that as soon as they lost power the opium came back on line.

It never went offline.

> That's the only good thing I've ever heard about the taliban.

They did stop people like you from getting too uppity.

>>> If we can't do that, figure out how to live with it without wiping it out and get on with life.

>> That was tried with al Queda pre 9/11 and that clearly didnt work either.

> I'm not exactly in control of the situation, am I?

And you wouldnt be able to figure that out even if you were.

>>> My personal feeling is also that religion is useless at best and
>>> destructive at worst and anything that makes it more difficult for
>>> religious people to inflict their religion on others is a good thing.

>> Sure, but again, hell of a lot easier said than done.

> Pity.

No one has ever been able to work out how to do that.

>>> But nobody ever asked me if I'd rather blow up a bridge in Afghanistan or repair one here.

>> Plenty were asked about that post 9/11 and its pretty clear what the answer was.

> You mean the election?

Nope, the polls.

> There was no viable alternative.

There was with the polls.

>>>> Oh! Not to mention all the future roads and bridges that could be
>>>> repaired and created anew with all the tax-payer money that will
>>>> be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and roads. Oops! Shhhh!
>>>> We can't talk about the upcoming war!

>>> If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one is about public vs private transportation.
>>> In case you've forgotten, I favor private.

>>>>> I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going
>>>>> to Death Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA
>>>>> to Death Valley. I might be able to get a bus next week, but
>>>>> I'll probably have to transfer a couple of times, miss a few
>>>>> connections and have overnight layovers and it will cost
>>>>> roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.

>>>> So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient public transportation doesn't go to the most
>>>> extreme places in the world?

>>> Because freedom means doing the extremes if that's what you want.
>>> I might choose (and indeed HAVE chosen) public transportation if it
>>> was better in some way than private transport, but it almost never is.

>>>> (even though Norway seems to do it).

>> Because its a tiny little place, the US isnt.

> I looked at google earth. Norway is only a bit smaller than California.

But a hell of a lot smaller than the US.

>>> The Japanese may LIKE living in small crowded places.

>> They dont get any choice on that. In spades in HongKong.

> A lot of HongKong people moved to the US. So have a lot of Japanese.
> So have a lot of EVERYBODY. We must be doing something right.

Yep. And not that many chose to go the other way.

Even Peng hasnt gone back permanently.

>>> I don't. Neither do most Americans, apparently. There are advantages to living in big cities, but not everybody
>>> wants those advantages. That's another one of those annoying-to-some "freedom" things.

>>>> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different - that's why we will never have Universal Health
>>>> Care like every other civilized, industrial country on this planet.

>>> Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.

>> Then why do you savage the medical providers ?

> Huh?

I've seen the utube footage, no point in denying it.

> I haven't seen all of them, so I can only savage the particular
> ones I've dealt with. Of those, the majority have been people I wouldn't choose to see a second time.

And you call that happy ?

> Good ones:
> The former dentist who retired and then died.

Very inconsiderate.

> The dental student who graduated.

Ditto.

> The gastroenterologist who was nice and knowledgeable but couldn't help.

Some are beyond help.

> A number of really good nurses, one of whom was a doctor in China. The doctors who listened and actually DID the right
> thing. Maybe 6.

> Bad ones:
> The dental student who couldn't even get cleaning right and who hurt like hell.
> The cardiologist who didn't notice the lack of blood tests for
> continuing coumadin therapy.
> The visiting nurse who didn't report back to the cardiologist about
> not doing the tests.
> The orthopedists who can't figure out what makes it hurt even with
> MRIs. The dentist who hurt and put inappropriate pressure on a
> surviving tooth in order to remove its neighbor, possibly causing
> root rot. The doctors who decided "Well, she's pretty old, what can she expect?"

Thats when you fanged him to death presumably.

> The doctors who made it obvious that they didn't give a shit.
> The nursing supervisors ditto.
> The managers who understaffed the nursing facility. God help the
> patients who didn't have family staying with them 12 hours a day,
> which wasn't long enough anyway.
> The cardiologist who mistook an electrolyte imbalance for something
> requiring a week in intensive care and a temporary pacemaker.

> I could go on...

Just as long as you're happy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: frugal towels?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7e4690da26b3e36b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:49 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

http://www.zorbeez.com/ as seen on tv

www.cheapogroovo.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Propane vs Gasoline powered generators
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/94077017cf6e06c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 1:10 pm
From: Jeff

Foxy Lady wrote:
> I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the other.
>
> We have a 3600 sq. ft. home

And you are reading mic.consumers.frugal.living?

and recently installed a Briggs & Stratton 8K
> portable gasoline generator to run the basic things like refrigerator,
> lights, fans, septic pump, water, furnace (propane), etc. During this
> incredible heat wave in South Central PA we had blackouts on Sunday afternon
> until late in the evening. The generator would run for less than 5 minutes
> and turn off. I saw how much trouble my husband went through getting
> gasoline, hitting switches, disconnecting the cable, etc. so I want out of
> it since I'm never going to touch that sucker when he isn't home and most of
> the blackouts are during the day while he's a state away working.
>
> We have a 500 gallon, underground propane tan that we keep as full as
> possible at all times. I want to change to a standby, automatic transfer
> generator because I live by the K.I.S.S. rule. We returned the adequately
> named BS generator yesterday for a full refund and will apply that money to
> a new system.
>
> Main question is, how much does it cost to run a 16K propane generator? I've
> read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a loss. My husband
> believes that it would empty the tank in 2.5 days costing us around $1,000
> for the pleasure. I've found data that it uses .75 gallons per hour of use
> and that's significantly much lower than the former equation.

Well that's a big generator, and depending on the model it should use
2 1/2 gallons/hr under load. It will use less under lower loads, but not
proportional, it might uses 1 1/2 gallons/hr at half load. That would be
about two weeks for your 500 gallons. Your .75 gallon figure might be at
idle. You should be able to get all the specs on this.

Jeff
>
> Can someone help me with this, or post a link where I can find an answer to
> this question?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sandra
>
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 1:42 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:07:41 -0400, "Foxy Lady"
<forums@the-merrimans.net> wrote:

>>> I've read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a loss. My
>>> husband believes that it would empty the tank in 2.5 days
>>
>> You cant get the cost by numbers like that pulled out of his arse.
>>
>>> costing us around $1,000 for the pleasure. I've found data that it uses
>>> .75 gallons per hour of use and that's significantly much lower than the
>>> former equation.
>>
>> So where did he get the 2.5 days from ?
>
>From calculations using the info on Consumer Reports, but I just can't
>believe that. I think he fudged the math and can't - or won't - see it.
>

Simple - just work through his calculations and point out to him where
he made a mistake. It's just simple arithmetic.

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 1:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Foxy Lady <forums@the-merrimans.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Foxy Lady <forums@the-merrimans.net> wrote

>>> I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the other.
>>> We have a 3600 sq. ft. home and recently installed a Briggs &
>>> Stratton 8K portable gasoline generator to run the basic things like
>>> refrigerator, lights, fans, septic pump, water, furnace (propane),
>>> etc. During this incredible heat wave in South Central PA we had
>>> blackouts on Sunday afternon until late in the evening. The generator would run for less than 5 minutes and turn
>>> off. I saw how much trouble my husband went through getting gasoline, hitting switches,
>>> disconnecting the cable, etc. so I want out of it since I'm never
>>> going to touch that sucker when he isn't home and most of the
>>> blackouts are during the day while he's a state away working.
>>> We have a 500 gallon, underground propane tan that we keep as full
>>> as possible at all times. I want to change to a standby, automatic
>>> transfer generator because I live by the K.I.S.S. rule. We returned
>>> the adequately named BS generator yesterday for a full refund and
>>> will apply that money to a new system.

>>> Main question is, how much does it cost to run a 16K propane generator?

>> Should be cheaper than gasoline, otherwise LPG wouldnt be used in cars to save money.

>>> I've read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a
>>> loss. My husband believes that it would empty the tank in 2.5 days

>> You cant get the cost by numbers like that pulled out of his arse.

>>> costing us around $1,000 for the pleasure. I've found data that it
>>> uses .75 gallons per hour of use and that's significantly much
>>> lower than the former equation.

>> So where did he get the 2.5 days from ?

> From calculations using the info on Consumer Reports, but I just can't
> believe that. I think he fudged the math and can't - or won't - see it.

Yeah, very likely.

Likely he's not comparing equal power generators, gasoline and propane powered.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 2:54 pm
From: "Foxy Lady"

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:afidnbxJ5upJQtPVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Foxy Lady wrote:
>> I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the other.
>>
>> We have a 3600 sq. ft. home
>
> And you are reading mic.consumers.frugal.living?
>

How do you think we were able to buy it? Certainly via many frugal
endeavors.

The plus side is that we bought it before this housig situation (3 years
ago), it's a LOT of house for the buck, and it's in PA where our retirement
benefits aren't taxed. The acre of land is also a plus for vegetable
gardening, fruit trees, cutting flowers, and in the midst of so many farms
that if I run out of the produce I grow, I just need to walk down the road
to a neighboring farmer who sells from a stand.

Thanks for your info. I'm certain hubby's calculations are mistaken...

Sandra

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just Canceled Cable TV
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cd6ada4aaa4d5bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 2:54 pm
From: The Real Bev

Bob F wrote:

> "The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mark Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> ...The government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>>> $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day.
>>
>> Walmart has them for $50. That's a just-in-case price.
>>
>>> By giving out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter
>>> box companies to jack their prices up another $40.
>>
>> Maybe not that much; I can't imagine buying anything like that for only $10.
>> Hard to even find cables for $10 (assuming you use only the ordinary sources
>> :-) ).
>>
>>> Another corporate welfare program but I digress. I'm seriously debating just
>>> chucking the boob tube and the VCR, which hasn't been touched in a decade,
>>> onto freecycle and be done with it.
>>
>> DVD recorders are way handier than VCRs.
>>
>>> That said, Netflix is great and I watch all the DVDs on my computer monitor,
>>> a 22" LCD screen.
>>
>> The problem with that is dark movies are pretty much unwatchable. I also like
>> to curl up on the couch, and that doesn't work very well.
>
> You can adjust the brightness, contrast, etc in your computer video boards
> "video" settings - at least I do. Mine has a seperate adjustment for video
> content.

Linux. Nvidia. The monitor has a brightness control, but that's it.

--
Cheers, Bev
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I bought a tape called "Subliminal Advertising"
The next day I bought 47 more.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 4:51 pm
From: George Grapman

The FCC has been looking into the possibility of a la carte pricing
meaning you would only pay for the channels that you want. Not a sports
fan? cancel ESPN and the regional sports channels. Don't care about
world affairs? Cancel CNN,Fox News and MSNBC.

The cable companies are fighting this and saying it would actually
cost customers more money.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:14 pm
From: NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> The FCC has been looking into the possibility of a la carte pricing
>meaning you would only pay for the channels that you want. Not a sports
>fan? cancel ESPN and the regional sports channels. Don't care about
>world affairs? Cancel CNN,Fox News and MSNBC.

I've heard this before and then the grounds were that minority
programming (e.g. black TV) was excluded from the package deals so
they wanted all the packages changed to a la carte (something like
that). It didn't go anywhere.

> The cable companies are fighting this and saying it would actually
>cost customers more money.

I wonder what their reasoning is? More likely it'll result in less
money for many networks which are now included in packages (i.e. they
share the revenue) but if the consumer has his pick they're not likely
to be chosen.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:39 pm
From: George Grapman

NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> The FCC has been looking into the possibility of a la carte pricing
>> meaning you would only pay for the channels that you want. Not a sports
>> fan? cancel ESPN and the regional sports channels. Don't care about
>> world affairs? Cancel CNN,Fox News and MSNBC.
>
> I've heard this before and then the grounds were that minority
> programming (e.g. black TV) was excluded from the package deals so
> they wanted all the packages changed to a la carte (something like
> that). It didn't go anywhere.
>
>> The cable companies are fighting this and saying it would actually
>> cost customers more money.
>
> I wonder what their reasoning is? More likely it'll result in less
> money for many networks which are now included in packages (i.e. they
> share the revenue) but if the consumer has his pick they're not likely
> to be chosen.
>
>
I am skeptical when a business opposes something because they say it
will cost more money for their customers.
Keep in mind than many of the larger cable companies also own
networks (Time/Warner owns CNN,TBS an TNT among other networks, Comcast
owns several regional sports networks,E!,and Versus) and it is in their
interest to get those networks into more homes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: $500 Gas Grill vs. $15 Bamboo Steamer: Which Wins?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3df34793d9db4588?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 2:57 pm
From: Dave

At our house, one of our summer rituals is the outdoor grill. I used
to believe that nothing tasted better than a nice piece of fish cooked
outdoors along with a variety of grilled veggies.

Recently, however, we bought one of those inexpensive Chinese bamboo
steamers -- a simple set of bamboo containers that stack on top of
each other and which are placed over a wok or a pan of boiling water.
The steam goes up through the interlocking bamboo racks and cooks your
food in a short period of time.

We decided to put our wild salmon in the bamboo steamer, along with
some of the veggies that would normally go alongside the fish on the
grill.

WOW was it good. In fact, we are going to switch over permanently to
cooking fish and vegetables via our bamboo steamer. The fish was so
tasty - it didn't dry out as it often does via the grill and it had a
wonderful flavor thanks to the fish sauce (available at any Chinese
grocery) that we sprinkled on the small plate holding the fish inside
the steamer rack.

Steaming food can be very nutritious, because little of the water
soluble vitamins (B, C) escape as they would otherwise, and much of
the extra fat in the fish is cooked out (you pour it off the plate you
use in the steamer). While veggies can be overcooked easily, the
stacking trays on the bamboo steamer allow you to put items such as
potatoes closer to the steam than other, more sensitive foods. For us,
steaming food has been a great change.It is a very frugal way to cook
delicious meals.

Dave

Full text article above extracted from http://shamvswham.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: Gemstone jewelry, Bali silver jewelry & art, LOW PRICES!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/087a567ec3410b33?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 3:12 pm
From: Jewelry by Yael

Beautiful gemstone jewelry, mermaid art & Bali silver jewelry (Harmony
balls). A lot of
auctions starting at just $9.99! Visit:
http://stores.ebay.com/Orions-Online-Fleamarket_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQtZkm
There is definitely something for everyone! I also have about 150
other auctions that are in progress so please take some time to visit
my other items that I have for sale. For additional savings you can
take advantage of my combined shipping policy.
Thank you!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to get the best deal on LLC liability insurance?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02d6dfff3947ff02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 3:45 pm
From: laredotornado

Hi,

I've been working as a sole proprietor in the software development
business. Recently a recruiting firm found me a new contract in the
state of Colorado where I work and live. They are requiring me to
form an LLC and get liability insurance, as per the term below

As a corp-to-corp consultant, we have Net 15 Payment Terms and require
a Certificate of Liability Insurance for at least $1,000,000.00 in
coverage.

They have recommended an agent. But I'm looking for the best deal and
don't know where to start.

Thanks for any advice, - Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV Converter box major snafu in the US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5479512ec399c625?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 4:28 pm
From: Seerialmom

I haven't applied for or technically need one of those converter box
coupons before the digital switch over, however those who have applied
for an received them are apparently finding they either can't locate a
box to buy or the coupons are expiring before they can buy. And of
course our lovely government with the brightest red tape available,
has rules in place saying they can't reapply for the coupons. What I
don't understand was why the 90 day expiration when the switchover
doesn't happen until February 2009? Anyway...interesting MSNBC
article about this snafu:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25083123/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 4:50 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:28:03 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
<seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I haven't applied for or technically need one of those converter box
>coupons before the digital switch over, however those who have applied
>for an received them are apparently finding they either can't locate a
>box to buy or the coupons are expiring before they can buy. And of
>course our lovely government with the brightest red tape available,
>has rules in place saying they can't reapply for the coupons. What I
>don't understand was why the 90 day expiration when the switchover
>doesn't happen until February 2009? Anyway...interesting MSNBC
>article about this snafu:
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25083123/

Why is it that I have this nagging suspicion that if the coupons could
be used to buy beer or cigarettes instead, these same people wouldn't
have any problem redeeming them? ;-)

I got my coupon in mid-March -- the expiration date was clearly noted.
I redeemed it for a convertor at Radio Shack a couple weeks ago. There
was a stack of the convertors on display. I've also seen some on
display at the local WalMart.

Dennis (evil)
--
An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
the voters are below average intelligence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2009 Prius - why such a big engine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64b8bb7586b7de99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 5:15 pm
From: "Lou"

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:38c82629-1d11-4cfb-9c29-dbc8a1b01025@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>On Jun 10, 10:04 am, cr113 <cr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
>> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
>> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
>> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
>> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
>> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
>> mileage. Am I missing something?
>>
> >http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/expos...
>>
> It's a matter of getting adequate acceleration. The mpg rating hasn't
> decreased and the cost hasn't increased.

I'd guess an additional reason could have to do with what the battery pack
is capable of. During a long climb uphill, the battery could be assisting
the gas engine, and I can easily imagine that it could be drained leaving
you with only a rather underpowered gas engine until the battery has
recharged.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 5:50 pm
From: max

In article
<7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
cr113 <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote:

> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> mileage. Am I missing something?
>
> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-t
> oyota-prius/

Bigger. Quicker. Better mileage. Lower Cost.

you seem to be missing quite a bit.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:42 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Since when is 1.8 big? My van has a 5.something, not sure exactly the size.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"cr113" <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
mileage. Am I missing something?

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-toyota-prius/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get remaining liquid out of containers...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0d0fe996d9500468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:45 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I usually take a sawzall, and cut the bottom off the bottle.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6at0i7F380611U1@mid.individual.net...
For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers in
your car for this.

For liquid chocolate to make chocolate milk, pour a little milk in the
container and shake well to get the remaining chocolate out.

For barbecue sauce, pour in a little water and shake.

For applesauce, leave lid on and bang on counter upside down.

Then for other liquids, leave container upside down when near empty.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:46 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Use a 12 inch bowie knife, and cut a big hole in the side of the jug.
Amazing how quiet the laundromat gets. A primal scream is also very helpful
to get the last couple drops.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Jonathan Grobe" <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
news:slrng4iufe.nfh.grobe@worf.netins.net...
On 2008-06-06, Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
> remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers
> in
> your car for this.

Just add water and swish it around, since it is always going to
be diluted with water anyway.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turn that cell phone charger off!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/08c4c18e7cebc41e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:49 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Good God, man! You've reinvented the outlet strip!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91334

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6at1nuF39nmbbU1@mid.individual.net...
The little boxes which plug into to the wall like cell phone chargers
(called transformers, power supplies, or wall warts) are *always* using
electricity! Even when not plugged into the cell phone.

Here is a neat little switch which goes between the outlet and things like
this you want to turn off when not in use...
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-34-outlet-adapters/plug-in-indoor-switch-102887.aspx

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video: ExplainThis to the Emergency Room Doctor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c08cfbee7ac67e06?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:52 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

TinyURL was created!
The following URL:

http://revver.com/video/7319/affiliate/169994/explainthis-to

-the-emergency-room-doctor/

has a length of 87 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which
has a length of 25 characters:

http://tinyurl.com/5n2erd

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Moore" <moore@ofthis.com> wrote in message
news:20080607032738.916164E5A9@outpost.zedz.net...
Fat guy messes up.

http://revver.com/video/7319/affiliate/169994/explainthis-to-the-emergency-
room-doctor/

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inexpensive car radio?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1b899db711e6062b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 9 2008 11:57 pm
From: Dan Birchall

invalid@invalid.com (Ken) wrote:
> Where'a a good, preferably local, place to buy a very basic reliable
> generic radio for a 20-year-old pickup? Just the AM/FM with a couple of
> station buttons. No CD, tape, high power, GPS, fancy displays, quad
> sound, etc. needed. Chinese junk or good stuff?
>
> Radio Shack, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, ... Who?

If you really want barebones feature sets, I'd say Radio Shack, or even
a flea market. Most of the others are probably going to try to sell you
something with more buttons than an big-city elevator.

--
"Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
grey: but never am I unblest."

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:07 am
From: Dan Birchall

timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net (timeOday) wrote:
> Well, after noticing my most recent bill was $110 just for Internet +
> analog "Standard Cable," I finally pulled the plug. I can afford it,
> but it's just not a good value.

Sheesh, yeah. Broadband should be about $19-$39 a month.

Oh, and if you scrounge broadband, your kids will find out that there
are web sites, and they can go to PBS.org or whatever and view clips
from their favorite shows, and play games, and, and... stuff.

--
"Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
grey: but never am I unblest."

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 6:03 am
From: RosesnRain

On Jun 7, 12:51 pm, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> Well, after noticing my most recent bill was $110 just for Internet +
> analog "Standard Cable," I finally pulled the plug. I can afford it,
> but it's just not a good value. They made me work to cancel, I was on
> hold over 15 minutes. (Comcast has one submenu for upgrading service,
> and a separate one for downgrading, hmmmm.) I couldn't cancel Internet,
> but I did downgrade to the sub-megabit service, so my total savings
> should be close to $70 per month! That's unless I come crawling back
> for the 6mps Internet, which might happen, but still I'd be saving $50/mo.
>
> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching
> Disney right now. I think this will be good for all of us. I realized
> flipping channels wasn't adding much to my quality of life, and the
> networks, for all their supposed demise, have most of the programming I
> watch anyways. I got a digital receiver for my PVR and discovered free
> digital broadcast is much better quality than the analog cable I was
> paying for. So I also applied for the government coupons to get a
> digital->analog box for my TV. I might also get the $9/mo netflix plan.
> Heck, for the money I saved, I could go to a concert every month.
>
> Anyways, I struck my blow for frugality this month.

I did the same only I took everything out, cable, internet! I had
enough of the high cost especially with fuel costs. I was not
watching anything really but the major networks and I can get those
without paying for them. I still get about 14 channels on my 6month
old HDTV in the livingroom. I have ordered the coupons for the
converter boxes but I don't think they will pick up anymore stations
on that tv than it already gets and I agree with whoever said it that
the HD tv stations are a lot better!

Beva

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:45 am
From: "Bob F"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rXT2k.147$Yp1.107@newsfe07.lga...
> Mark Anderson wrote:
>
>> ...The government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>> $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day.
>
> Walmart has them for $50. That's a just-in-case price.
>
>> By giving out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter
>> box companies to jack their prices up another $40.
>
> Maybe not that much; I can't imagine buying anything like that for only $10.
> Hard to even find cables for $10 (assuming you use only the ordinary sources
> :-) ).
>
>> Another corporate welfare program but I digress. I'm seriously debating just
>> chucking the boob tube and the VCR, which hasn't been touched in a decade,
>> onto freecycle and be done with it.
>
> DVD recorders are way handier than VCRs.
>
>> That said, Netflix is great and I watch all the DVDs on my computer monitor,
>> a 22" LCD screen.
>
> The problem with that is dark movies are pretty much unwatchable. I also like
> to curl up on the couch, and that doesn't work very well.

You can adjust the brightness, contrast, etc in your computer video boards
"video" settings - at least I do. Mine has a seperate adjustment for video
content.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:28 pm
From: Jim Prescott

In article <1b38c883-b38a-4825-a836-9fcd69c1f4ff@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
RosesnRain <beva1960@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I did the same only I took everything out, cable, internet! I had
>enough of the high cost especially with fuel costs. I was not
>watching anything really but the major networks and I can get those
>without paying for them. I still get about 14 channels on my 6month
>old HDTV in the livingroom. I have ordered the coupons for the
>converter boxes but I don't think they will pick up anymore stations
>on that tv than it already gets and I agree with whoever said it that
>the HD tv stations are a lot better!

A 6 month old HDTV almost certainly includes a digital tuner (aka ATSC)
so you don't need, or want, a converter box for it.

The converter boxes are only useful for older TVs, VCRs and other
recorders that don't have digital tuners. The subsidized converter
boxes are explicitly prohibited from outputting HD; you can tune an HD
channel but the the box will downconvert it to standard definition
before output. If you already have an HDTV with a digital tuner adding
a converter box will just downgrade your HD channels.

The only exception I can see is that you can use the converter box as a
way to provide a second antenna input. This would be helpful if you
have some stations in a different direction than others and don't want to
deal with a rotating antenna. You would point your main antenna to where
you most want HD content and hook it directly to the TV, then you point a
second antenna to the other source and hook it to the converter box.

You can use www.tvfool.com to see what stations you should receive with
various sized antennas and which directions they come from. It can
report both the current stations, and the post 2/17/2009 stations (lots
of channels will be moving and/or changing signal strength at cutover).
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group jgp@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living Frugally? Then you need Dog Food Recipes!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/451351a0c9f173c6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:07 am
From: Dan Birchall

Sorry, but even living frugally, I prefer recipes for things more
appetizing than dog food. I'm sure others here would agree. ;)

--
"Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
grey: but never am I unblest."

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 1:08 am
From: Jeff

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in
news:XSg3k.49$aE5.14@newsfe07.lga:

> George wrote:
>
>> When they built
>> the interstate highway system they decided to go for show so their
>> budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a good road they
>> decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using less steel and
>> concrete on the bridges for example than would be used with standard
>> designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our state
>> university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion that the
>> bridges would still be in good condition if more materials were used.
>
> Theory had it that the interstate system was built primarily for defense
> rather than civilian purposes. Perhaps it was expected that most of it
> would be destroyed in the coming nuclear holocaust anyway and it would
> be stupid to build for the ages.
>
> Duck and cover. DROP!
>

The interstate highway circling town was originally built in the late 60's
and lasted about 30 years before it was decided that it was worn enough to
warrant replacement. The quality of the replacement was dreadful. They
didn't bother to properly line up where the sections meet so there is a
bump and the surface is so irregular they had to grind down the high spots
to make it drivable. Now about 5 years later they are already cutting out
blocks of it to replace again.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 3:58 am
From: George

The Real Bev wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> When they built the interstate highway system they decided to go for
>> show so their budget might have been enough for say 100 miles of a
>> good road they decided to build 120 miles by cutting corners and using
>> less steel and concrete on the bridges for example than would be used
>> with standard designs. I know people who worked on the designs and our
>> state university engineering lab came to the exact same conclusion
>> that the bridges would still be in good condition if more materials
>> were used.
>
> Theory had it that the interstate system was built primarily for defense
> rather than civilian purposes. Perhaps it was expected that most of it
> would be destroyed in the coming nuclear holocaust anyway and it would
> be stupid to build for the ages.
>
> Duck and cover. DROP!
>

Naw, just politicians trying to look good by spreading everything thin
so it looked great from a distance..

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 4:48 am
From: Napoleon

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:52:30 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm pretty sure we haven't despoiled Norway's infrastructure, though.
>If you find that we have, take pix and report back.

Yup. Ha ha. Just think of all the bridges and wonderful "automobile"
roads and bridges here in the great US of A that could have been
repaired with all the tax-payer money wasted on destroying Iraqi and
Afgahnistani bridges and roads! Oh! Not to mention all the future
roads and bridges that could be repaired and created anew with all the
tax-payer money that will be wasted on destroying Iranian bridges and
roads. Oops! Shhhh! We can't talk about the upcoming war!

>I guess an equivalent would be hopping on the train and going to Death
>Valley. Oh, wait, there's NEVER been a train from LA to Death Valley.
>I might be able to get a bus next week, but I'll probably have to
>transfer a couple of times, miss a few connections and have overnight
>layovers and it will cost roughly as much as a plane trip -- or more.

So what. Why do continue to point to an example of how efficient
public transportation doesn't go to the most extreme places in the
world? (even though Norway seems to do it). What about public
transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't
we have that efficient public transportation in America?

The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.
Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
civilized, industrial country on this planet.

-N

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:31 pm
From: The Real Bev

Napoleon wrote:

If you don't like the USA, just say so in a different thread. This one
is about public vs private transportation. In case you've forgotten, I
favor private.

> (even though Norway seems to do it). What about public
> transportation to your job, the grocery store, church, etc.? Why can't
> we have that efficient public transportation in America?

> The answer.... wait for it.... the automobile and oil/gas industry.

> Oh, and Americans view of never wanting to do anything different -
> that's why we will never have Universal Health Care like every other
> civilized, industrial country on this planet.

Hey, I have Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. I'm happy.

--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
When you stop bitching, you start dying.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sometimes it just doesn't work
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ad81274179c279d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 3:41 am
From: Jeff

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> Last year, the engine on my circa 1993 craftsman riding mower gave up
> the ghost. It was close to fall and I let it sit as a lawn ornament
> in the field.
>
> This spring, I bought a used motor, cleaned out the mouse nests,
> replaced the oil, cleaned and mounted the carb, and after much
> invoking of gods and curses, managed to get it installed. It worked
> great for a couple of mowings and then died.

I'm a little surprised that since you've gone through so much effort and
have a clue as to what you are doing, that you didn't find out why it
died. There's lots of reasons that aren't fatal. I can tell you that a
bad head gasket is no longer an unusual problem. I don't have a lot of
experience with powered mowers, but the couple I've looked at recently
have had problems that at first seemed hidden, but were obvious after
some poking around.

Jeff

>
> I was able to get a second replacement motor from the same fellow for
> a minimal amount, and with a bit fewer invocations, was able to get
> that cleaned spotless, re-carbed, oiled up and installed.
>
> It worked fine, sounding even smoother than the first replacement.
> But since it was working, I then hit a guy cable hidden by the road
> and broke one of the mandrels on the mower deck.
>
> Back to the old feller and picked up a replacement mower deck at a
> reasonable price. It came with a rear grass catcher, which is a
> s---load of black plastic parts and some metal square tubing. Got it
> on and it worked fine. Gently and slowly, so as to not overload the
> mower, I mowed the front part of one of my lawns.
>
> The engine sounded a bit off, so I drained and replaced the oil again.
> Got back started mowing again, and the motor conked out within ten
> minutes. I think I'm being told something.
>
> What is the going rate for scrap metal like this? I'm in the market
> for an inexpensive used compact tractor with a bushhog/haying
> attachment. The grass here appears to be a mite tough.
>
> On the plus side, I did get about 15 years out of the mower, and was
> only out about $200 on the recent repairs. Still...
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:29 am
From: Derald

gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) wrote:

>You have a brother here? Don't think you've mentioned that previously.
>
Nah; bro's in Bham and has been for about 50 years, although, his
trips to Hvlle were frequent. After the *real* John's death in 1973, his
oldest son and my bro took over the reins, dividing management of the
retail and the film processing divisions. Adept graffiti readers, they
sold to Fujifilm more than ten years ago. Except for a couple of "gee
whiz" trips with him over the years, my visits to northern AL have all
been as part of vacation camping tours or attendance at arts/crafts
events in the vB Center; none since late '90's.
The campground at Monte Sano is where I encountered my first "too
tame" damnable red fox: The sucker spotted an ice chest in the back of
the station wagon, followed us to our tent pad and just hung out,
waiting....
>
>The Chickpea Karma is likely to start roosting above you. Be ready.
Oh, Lordy; will an umbrella help?
>
>You may have just converted Harry to not mowing the thistles.
Well, they are pretty opportunistic and do have some nuisance
value, particularly in "improved" parcels on which overstorey AWA ground
cover are gone, long gone.
>
>posing as computer programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft..."
You reckon they wrote "Vista"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sell hogan armani lacoste trainers timberland boots
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9c7cd81453926860?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:34 am
From: "WWW.THENIKESHOES.NET"

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Versace Sandals, Crocs Sandals, Women's Sandals Men's Slippers From
China

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 8:04 am
From: cr113

From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
mileage. Am I missing something?

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-toyota-prius/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 8:41 am
From: Ron Peterson

On Jun 10, 10:04 am, cr113 <cr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> mileage. Am I missing something?

> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/expos...

It's a matter of getting adequate acceleration. The mpg rating hasn't
decreased and the cost hasn't increased.

--
Ron

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How To Run Your Car On Water - Free Instructions
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/348f0cdabc879a45?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 8:15 am
From: jakekennedy14@gmail.com

Download it here:

http://run-your-car-on-h2o.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dominatrix females into brown showers...kinky
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/781b08583019146c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 8:25 am
From: indiana_biker@hotmail.com

http://groups.google.ca/group/women-into-farting-on-cakes

I wish all the young, attractive, sexy-looking girls on this forum who
reside in the Malibu area to come over to my place, roll down their
pants, position their bare-naked asses in vicinity/proximity to my
birthday cake, and rip vigorously their anal gas on it.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/404/cakesitting2kl3.jpg

In case a woman dares to fart on the candles, what do you expect to
happen next - will it light her farts or blow the candles with her
warm
wet raunchy loud fart? (The classic fart-lighting question)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 9:35 am
From: "Dr. Cavortian"

As an experienced analyst, I'd posit that a fart would, as we doctors
say, "blow her a new asshole."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil Boycott: Non oil based products?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c81559a594ac920c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 9:29 am
From: Paul M. Eldridge

Hi Jeff,

With respect to natural gas prices, the following article appeared in
yesterday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2008/06/09/natural_gas_prices.html

It would seem reducing your home's energy needs and installation of a
solar hot water system will pay off rather handsomely.

Cheers,
Paul

==============================================================================
TOPIC: test
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/455bac0ba68d1c6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 10:27 am
From: Dan Birchall

none@none.net (OhioGuy) wrote:
> Hmm, nothing I post seems to be showing up. Can any of you see this
> message?

What message? I don't see any message around here.

--
"Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
grey: but never am I unblest."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Ask Amy": Spendthrift adult children caused by clueless parents?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8d517cbb1083899b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:13 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

That wasn't Amy's observation, but *I* think it's plain that when the
parents "tried to raise them to be caring and compassionate," they
forgot to say to the kids "where is YOUR money" whenever the kids
demanded something. Preferably earned by doing extra chores, of
course.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/partii/ny-lsamy5720411jun10,0,5739520.column

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FILING BANKRUPTCY
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e826783da302ec75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:33 am
From: KANMANI

http://chapter7bankruptcy1.blogspot.com

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:34 am
From: "Foxy Lady"

I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the other.

We have a 3600 sq. ft. home and recently installed a Briggs & Stratton 8K
portable gasoline generator to run the basic things like refrigerator,
lights, fans, septic pump, water, furnace (propane), etc. During this
incredible heat wave in South Central PA we had blackouts on Sunday afternon
until late in the evening. The generator would run for less than 5 minutes
and turn off. I saw how much trouble my husband went through getting
gasoline, hitting switches, disconnecting the cable, etc. so I want out of
it since I'm never going to touch that sucker when he isn't home and most of
the blackouts are during the day while he's a state away working.

We have a 500 gallon, underground propane tan that we keep as full as
possible at all times. I want to change to a standby, automatic transfer
generator because I live by the K.I.S.S. rule. We returned the adequately
named BS generator yesterday for a full refund and will apply that money to
a new system.

Main question is, how much does it cost to run a 16K propane generator? I've
read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a loss. My husband
believes that it would empty the tank in 2.5 days costing us around $1,000
for the pleasure. I've found data that it uses .75 gallons per hour of use
and that's significantly much lower than the former equation.

Can someone help me with this, or post a link where I can find an answer to
this question?

Thank you,

Sandra

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:57 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Foxy Lady <forums@the-merrimans.net> wrote:
> I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the
> other.
> We have a 3600 sq. ft. home and recently installed a Briggs &
> Stratton 8K portable gasoline generator to run the basic things like
> refrigerator, lights, fans, septic pump, water, furnace (propane),
> etc. During this incredible heat wave in South Central PA we had
> blackouts on Sunday afternon until late in the evening. The generator
> would run for less than 5 minutes and turn off. I saw how much
> trouble my husband went through getting gasoline, hitting switches,
> disconnecting the cable, etc. so I want out of it since I'm never
> going to touch that sucker when he isn't home and most of the
> blackouts are during the day while he's a state away working.
> We have a 500 gallon, underground propane tan that we keep as full as
> possible at all times. I want to change to a standby, automatic
> transfer generator because I live by the K.I.S.S. rule. We returned
> the adequately named BS generator yesterday for a full refund and
> will apply that money to a new system.

> Main question is, how much does it cost to run a 16K propane generator?

Should be cheaper than gasoline, otherwise LPG wouldnt be used in cars to save money.

> I've read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a loss. My husband believes that it would empty the
> tank in 2.5 days

You cant get the cost by numbers like that pulled out of his arse.

> costing us around $1,000 for the pleasure. I've found data that it uses .75 gallons per hour of use and that's
> significantly much lower than the former equation.

So where did he get the 2.5 days from ?

> Can someone help me with this, or post a link where I can find an answer to this question?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:07 pm
From: "Foxy Lady"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6b8147F3aokubU1@mid.individual.net...
> Foxy Lady <forums@the-merrimans.net> wrote:
>> I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of using one over the
>> other.
>> We have a 3600 sq. ft. home and recently installed a Briggs &
>> Stratton 8K portable gasoline generator to run the basic things like
>> refrigerator, lights, fans, septic pump, water, furnace (propane),
>> etc. During this incredible heat wave in South Central PA we had
>> blackouts on Sunday afternon until late in the evening. The generator
>> would run for less than 5 minutes and turn off. I saw how much
>> trouble my husband went through getting gasoline, hitting switches,
>> disconnecting the cable, etc. so I want out of it since I'm never
>> going to touch that sucker when he isn't home and most of the
>> blackouts are during the day while he's a state away working.
>> We have a 500 gallon, underground propane tan that we keep as full as
>> possible at all times. I want to change to a standby, automatic
>> transfer generator because I live by the K.I.S.S. rule. We returned
>> the adequately named BS generator yesterday for a full refund and
>> will apply that money to a new system.
>
>> Main question is, how much does it cost to run a 16K propane generator?
>
> Should be cheaper than gasoline, otherwise LPG wouldnt be used in cars to
> save money.
>
>> I've read so much conflicting info on the internet that I'm at a loss. My
>> husband believes that it would empty the tank in 2.5 days
>
> You cant get the cost by numbers like that pulled out of his arse.
>
>> costing us around $1,000 for the pleasure. I've found data that it uses
>> .75 gallons per hour of use and that's significantly much lower than the
>> former equation.
>
> So where did he get the 2.5 days from ?

From calculations using the info on Consumer Reports, but I just can't
believe that. I think he fudged the math and can't - or won't - see it.

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Frugal Living

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Tuesday, June 10, 2008

26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest