Frugal Living: Feb 27, 2008

Wednesday, February 27, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best frugal technology deal you've gotten
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/432b1da46fece658?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:49 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 4, 7:36 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> What's the best technology deal you've gotten in the past couple of
> months?
>
> For me, it was the PNY 2 GB USB flash drive I picked up at Staples for
> $8.48 using a competitor's $15 off coupon. I actually got two of them, to
> replace the old 512 MB ones my wife and I were using.

Nothing...

There are needs and there are wants.

Almost everything we desire are wants...optional purchases.

The best technology deal is when you don't buy it.

Technology items depreciate incrediably quickly.

I am typing this on a computer that seven years old and it is far more
than is needed for this application.

I used to be at the leading/bleeding edge of technology
acquisition...after a few cycles I determined that it was NOT the best
place for optimization of my resources of time and money.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:48 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Nothing...
>
>There are needs and there are wants.
>
>Almost everything we desire are wants...optional purchases.
>
>The best technology deal is when you don't buy it.
>
>Technology items depreciate incrediably quickly.
>
>I am typing this on a computer that seven years old and it is far more
>than is needed for this application.
>
>I used to be at the leading/bleeding edge of technology
>acquisition...after a few cycles I determined that it was NOT the best
>place for optimization of my resources of time and money.

Boy do I ever agree with the above!!!
I was same kind of person also!!

Question tho.... what IS the best place for
optimization of YOUR resources of time and money NOW?

Just curious what you do now

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where Do You Shop For The BEST Value?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2f38214f19f930c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:57 pm
From: clams_casino

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

>On Feb 23, 1:37 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?
>>
>>TMT
>>
>>
>
>Anyone else?
>
>Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group I
>would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.
>
>Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase
>something?
>
>TMT
>
>

I buy all my cheap crappy shoes, designer bags and replica watches on line.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 3:40 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Feb 27, 2:07 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 1:37 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?
>
> > TMT
>
> Anyone else?
>
> Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group I
> would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.
>
> Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase
> something?
>
> TMT

No...you see it's like this. We're all "frugal" so that means for the
most part we don't spend our money. Being extra frugal we can find
these quality items at garage sales, Craigslist or other non-
traditional outlets like Big Lots and Dollar Tree. Worst value would
be buying the latest 50 inch plasma TV at full retail price regardless
of what store sells it. There's not much return on the investment
(unless you're an extreme hedonist and value your pleasure over
everything else in life...and big TV's are your personal Nirvana).
But paying $3 for a Sunbeam radiant heat toaster at a garage
sale...now that's a great value because that thing will last another
20 years.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote

>> When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?

Depends entirely on what it is that needs to be bought.

> Anyone else?

> Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group
> I would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.

> Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase something?

Or they dont see any point in discussing where they get the best value.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:59 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 27, 5:40 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2:07 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 1:37 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?
>
> > > TMT
>
> > Anyone else?
>
> > Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group I
> > would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.
>
> > Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase
> > something?
>
> > TMT
>
> No...you see it's like this. We're all "frugal" so that means for the
> most part we don't spend our money. Being extra frugal we can find
> these quality items at garage sales, Craigslist or other non-
> traditional outlets like Big Lots and Dollar Tree. Worst value would
> be buying the latest 50 inch plasma TV at full retail price regardless
> of what store sells it. There's not much return on the investment
> (unless you're an extreme hedonist and value your pleasure over
> everything else in life...and big TV's are your personal Nirvana).
> But paying $3 for a Sunbeam radiant heat toaster at a garage
> sale...now that's a great value because that thing will last another
> 20 years.

I agree...that is what I am thinking when I say "great value". ;<)

TMT

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:01 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 27, 6:07 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?
>
> Depends entirely on what it is that needs to be bought.
>
> > Anyone else?
> > Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group
> > I would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.
> > Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase something?
>
> Or they dont see any point in discussing where they get the best value.

Valid points.

Actually I would think that fugal buyers would want to discuss where
the bargains are....aren't we all looking for fugal buys when we have
to spend our hard earned money.

When I started the discussion, I was not looking for a list of store
names....fugal is where you find it.

TMT

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>> When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?

>> Depends entirely on what it is that needs to be bought.

>>> Anyone else?
>>> Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group
>>> I would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.
>>> Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase something?

>> Or they dont see any point in discussing where they get the best value.

> Valid points.

> Actually I would think that fugal buyers would want to discuss where the bargains are....

Or maybe they feel that anyone reading here would already be aware of
the obvious places like ebay and craigslist and garage sales etc etc etc.

> aren't we all looking for fugal buys when we have to spend our hard earned money.

Sure, but I doubt that anyone can tell me about a place where I can do
that that I'm not already aware of with the vast bulk of the stuff I buy.

> When I started the discussion, I was not looking for a list of store names....fugal is where you find it.

Sure, but again, the obvious places like ebay and craigslist and the salvos etc
should be know to those who want to get the best value for what they buy.

I just bought an SD card reader from hongkong using ebay, for just $1, with free shipping
and am about to buy another because the first one works fine and its such excellent value.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: what do you all do when the battery in your battery back-up dies for
good?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/16424498e7324bb1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 3:26 pm
From: "Bob F"

"http://www.ActorsNYC.us" <ray.normandeau@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:40f03ab7-d7e5-45c2-9028-576cd038f77e@j28g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 27, 1:39 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 8:51 pm, Rick <ricka...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >www.Queensbridge.uswrote:
>
> > > I have a
> > > Conext and an Energizer that both died after a few years.
> > > Do you find a local source for cheap replacement batteries.
> > > It cost too much for shipping for mail-order.
>
> > > I bought last week a APC complete replacement unit for $20.00 AR at
> > > Staples.
> > > Is that the only way you would go, buy complete on sale
>
> > > Most mail order places want more then that when you add in shipping.
>
> > > please reply in NG or to
> > > batteries
> > > ....@7183921.Info
> > > which will close as soon as spam comes in
>
> >www.batteries.com
>
> > Low prices on batteries more than offset the shipping fees. I paid
> > $15.00 for an Energizer replacement battery there that Eveready wanted
> > $49.99 for. YMMV depending on the battery model you need, but thankfully
> > UPS batteries are usually limited to less than a half dozen standard
> > models.
>
> > The only "local source" that used to carry them in store was Radio
> > Schlock. (You didn't say where you are located so it's kind of hard to
> > define "local"...) But sealed lead acid batteries are now a web order
> > only item. Last I looked they only carried one or two SLA batteries in
> > stores for alarm systems. And Radio Shack store prices were a lot more
> > expensive than mail order with shipping fees.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I would check with an alarm company.
>
> Or check out Sears that sells sealed lead acid batteries for
> wheelchairs.
>
> OR watch out for specials for new UPSs...which will likely be cheaper
> than buying a new battery.
>

>well ... so far the last suggestions appears to be the most
>economical.

>when I mentioned local, what I meant was do people look for local
>sources wherever they are,
>medium to large cities.

There are a number of stores around my town that sell nothing but batteries of
many types. Could be worth check such places out.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:21 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 27, 5:26 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "http://www.ActorsNYC.us" <ray.normand...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:40f03ab7-d7e5-45c2-9028-576cd038f77e@j28g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 27, 1:39 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 8:51 pm, Rick <ricka...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
> > >www.Queensbridge.uswrote:
>
> > > > I have a
> > > > Conext and an Energizer that both died after a few years.
> > > > Do you find a local source for cheap replacement batteries.
> > > > It cost too much for shipping for mail-order.
>
> > > > I bought last week a APC complete replacement unit for $20.00 AR at
> > > > Staples.
> > > > Is that the only way you would go, buy complete on sale
>
> > > > Most mail order places want more then that when you add in shipping.
>
> > > > please reply in NG or to
> > > > batteries
> > > > ....@7183921.Info
> > > > which will close as soon as spam comes in
>
> > >www.batteries.com
>
> > > Low prices on batteries more than offset the shipping fees. I paid
> > > $15.00 for an Energizer replacement battery there that Eveready wanted
> > > $49.99 for. YMMV depending on the battery model you need, but thankfully
> > > UPS batteries are usually limited to less than a half dozen standard
> > > models.
>
> > > The only "local source" that used to carry them in store was Radio
> > > Schlock. (You didn't say where you are located so it's kind of hard to
> > > define "local"...) But sealed lead acid batteries are now a web order
> > > only item. Last I looked they only carried one or two SLA batteries in
> > > stores for alarm systems. And Radio Shack store prices were a lot more
> > > expensive than mail order with shipping fees.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I would check with an alarm company.
>
> > Or check out Sears that sells sealed lead acid batteries for
> > wheelchairs.
>
> > OR watch out for specials for new UPSs...which will likely be cheaper
> > than buying a new battery.
>
> >well ... so far the last suggestions appears to be the most
> >economical.
> >when I mentioned local, what I meant was do people look for local
> >sources wherever they are,
> >medium to large cities.
>
> There are a number of stores around my town that sell nothing but batteries of
> many types. Could be worth check such places out.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

True...but in my experience their pricing tends to be rather
expensive.

Again price a new USP with rebates before springing for a new
battery..sad but true.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Forget oil, short the stock market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f319c22ae17e49be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 3:58 pm
From: "Bob F"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:AEEvj.7364$Ru4.1796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:HgDvj.8660$5K1.6973@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>>> RodSpeed,_dividends_and_cash_flow_are_bubblicious wrote:
>>>> Anyone can play this game I am seeing. It is a casino at this point.
>>>> Try utilizing QID, SDS,DOG, PSQ,SH,DXD among other exchange traded
>>>> funds to go short on the major US market indexes. That EWA is holding
>>>> on fine there RodSpeed. Either the big money desk traders are trying
>>>> to take the market down incrementally because positions are so screwed
>>>> up or else they are baiting the shorts to get stuck in short holdings
>>>> that will get squeezed.
>>>>
>>>> I am of the opinion that everything is market-based now. Thanks to
>>>> modern society, I can see gasoline go up in price daily, fluctuating
>>>> on oil prices. Real estate is market based, no firm prices there.
>>>> Health care? That is the next big thing that will be irking peoples of
>>>> the USA. Forget about jobs that go anywhere. We are looking at
>>>> massive containment of people for health benefits.
>>> Keep in mind that when but buy a stock your losses are limited to your
>>> investment but when you go short the losses have no limit.
>>
>> and there's never any guarantee that you can sell.
>>
>>
> I went short on a stock once. This was before the internet and I was
> checking the price on the phone hourly. After I few days I realized I did not
> have the stomach for this and cashed out.

You could have put in a protective order to close out the position if the stock
went up to much.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:37 pm
From: George Grapman

Bob F wrote:
> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:AEEvj.7364$Ru4.1796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:HgDvj.8660$5K1.6973@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> RodSpeed,_dividends_and_cash_flow_are_bubblicious wrote:
>>>>> Anyone can play this game I am seeing. It is a casino at this point.
>>>>> Try utilizing QID, SDS,DOG, PSQ,SH,DXD among other exchange traded
>>>>> funds to go short on the major US market indexes. That EWA is holding
>>>>> on fine there RodSpeed. Either the big money desk traders are trying
>>>>> to take the market down incrementally because positions are so screwed
>>>>> up or else they are baiting the shorts to get stuck in short holdings
>>>>> that will get squeezed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am of the opinion that everything is market-based now. Thanks to
>>>>> modern society, I can see gasoline go up in price daily, fluctuating
>>>>> on oil prices. Real estate is market based, no firm prices there.
>>>>> Health care? That is the next big thing that will be irking peoples of
>>>>> the USA. Forget about jobs that go anywhere. We are looking at
>>>>> massive containment of people for health benefits.
>>>> Keep in mind that when but buy a stock your losses are limited to your
>>>> investment but when you go short the losses have no limit.
>>> and there's never any guarantee that you can sell.
>>>
>>>
>> I went short on a stock once. This was before the internet and I was
>> checking the price on the phone hourly. After I few days I realized I did not
>> have the stomach for this and cashed out.
>
> You could have put in a protective order to close out the position if the stock
> went up to much.
>
>
True but let me add two points. This is in the pre-internet days
when it was harder to follow prices and then,as now, the broker assumes
no liability if the sorder is not followed,.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many therms (natural gas) do you use per day (per month)?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/99d004d38152f87d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:18 pm
From: "Bob F"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:WOYtj.1823$0M3.1385@newsfe17.lga...
> Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:14:46 -0800, Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>
>>>I'm only one person but I average about 5 therms a month.
>>>
>>
>>Wow. 5 therms a month is extremely low, it seems to me.
>>
>>The US Department of Energy assumes the "average" houshold uses a bit less
>>than 1/2 a therm a day *just* for the water heater alone!
>>43,302 kJ/day = 41,045 Btu/day = 0.4105 therm/day
>>
>>That would be 15 therms a month just for hot water for the average
>>household in America. I wonder if Europe uses the same amount?
>>
>>
>
>
> We used 30 therms in both July / Aug (hot water & furnace pilot) - US.

When I had a furnace with a pilot light, I always shut it off except during the
heating season.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:23 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Rick Blaine" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:inchr3lv3e8jhuam3t182krdb49i6jbk82@4ax.com...
> CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Do they ever actually meter therms, or measure ccf and convert?
>>It seems to me to actually measure the therms, they'd need to
>>continuously monitor the heating value of the gas being delivered,
>>and that seems quite difficult compared with just measuring cf.
>>Of course, assuming they've stripped the gas down to nearly pure
>>methane, the conversion is easy, but natural gas can vary according
>>to ethane and higher content.
>
>
> They do here... Meter reading is by CCF, then a conversion factor applied to
> get
> therm, multiplied by the rate per therm. The factor changes slightly every
> month...

Based upon the "heating value" of that month's gas, I assume.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: China's war against "white pollution"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/36ce63b7a3878793?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:39 pm
From: PaPaPeng

China's biggest plastic bag maker closes after ban
Jonathan Watts in Beijing
The Guardian,
Wednesday February 27 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/27/china.plasticbags

China's war against "white pollution" has claimed its first
large-scale victim with the closure of the country's biggest plastic
bag manufacturer.

The shutdown of Suiping Huaqiang Plastic, which employs 20,000 people,
highlighted the social costs of a government drive to clean up one of
the world's most polluted environments.

It comes less than two months after the state banned production of
ultra-thin bags and ordered supermarkets to stop giving away free
carriers from June 1.

That surprise move - which went further than anything done by the US,
the UK and many other developed nations - was hailed by Greenpeace,
Earthwatch and other green groups as a sign of growing environmental
awareness in China.

But it was a disaster for the company, which earned most of its 2.2bn
yuan (£155m) income from the annual production of 250,000 tonnes of
bags.

The firm ceased production in mid-January, after the government
announced the new ban on bags under 0.025mm thick.

"Over 90% of our products are on the limit list, so the only way
forward for the factory is closure," a management official told the
Xinhua news agency. The closure is unlikely to be the last. Judging
from their speeches, Chinese leaders are increasingly anxious about
foul air, filthy water and unhealthy levels of pollutants. The
crackdown on plastic bags is part of a campaign against "white
pollution" - the term used to describe the visual eyesores caused by
Styrofoam trays and carrier bags, which snag on trees and get blown
far and wide by the wind.

Supermarkets give out 1bn plastic bags every day, while shops and
restaurants use double that amount. Plastic packaging accounts for an
estimated 5m tonnes of crude oil each year.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Japan side 'to blame' for tainted foodstuffs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4bbbe8e2630a66bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:42 pm
From: PaPaPeng

Japan side 'to blame' for tainted foodstuffs
By Zhu Zhe (China Daily)
Updated: 2008-02-23 09:10
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-02/23/content_6478489.htm

The alleged contamination of Chinese-made frozen stuffed buns and
fried pork rolls exported to Japan was likely to have been caused by
loopholes at two Japanese wholly funded producers, China's top quality
watchdog said on Friday.

Japanese media reported on Tuesday that methamidophos, a pesticide,
was detected in two batches of frozen steamed stuffed buns from China.
Another pesticide, phorate, was also found in a batch of Chinese-made
fried pork rolls.

However, investigations found the two firms involved - Shandong Nicky
Foods Company and Qingqing Nicky Foods Company - are both wholly owned
subsidiaries of Nicky Foods Company in Osaka, Japan, the General
Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine
(AQSIQ) said in a statement.

The administration said the companies followed Japanese production
procedures and standards, and were supervised by Japanese staff.

"The contamination is likely to have been caused by loopholes in the
producers' purchase of raw materials such as vegetables," it said,
indicating the companies might have bought from suppliers other than
designated export-oriented farms.

Meanwhile, another AQSIQ statement released on Friday said China had
suspended all exports from the Shandong-based Wangyu Aquatic Food
Company, whose mackerel products exported to Japan were allegedly
contaminated with dichlorvos.

However, it said the mackerel were originally caught in Denmark and
all flavorings except salt were provided by the Japanese importer.

Local quality authorities in Shandong also tested 18 samples from the
factory, including all raw materials and packages, but found no traces
of pesticide, according to AQSIQ.

These alleged contamination incidents, along with a food poisoning
case claimed to have been caused by unsafe frozen dumplings from China
two weeks ago, have sparked safety scares in Japan over Chinese-made
food products.

Both nations have pledged to cooperate in investigating these cases to
avoid damaging diplomatic relations.

AQSIQ said on Friday that a team of senior Chinese police officers,
including top criminal investigator Wu Guoqing and toxicologist Wang
Guiqiang, had arrived in Japan on Wednesday to help investigate the
dumpling case.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:14 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Japan side 'to blame' for tainted foodstuffs
> By Zhu Zhe (China Daily)

Wota stunningly impeccible source for a claim like that...

> Updated: 2008-02-23 09:10
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-02/23/content_6478489.htm

> The alleged contamination of Chinese-made frozen
> stuffed buns and fried pork rolls exported to Japan

Nothing 'alleged' about it, it was real.

> was likely to have been caused by loopholes
> at two Japanese wholly funded producers,
> China's top quality watchdog said on Friday.

Wota stunningly impeccible source for a claim like that...

> Japanese media reported on Tuesday that methamidophos, a pesticide,
> was detected in two batches of frozen steamed stuffed buns from China.

Wota surprise.

> Another pesticide, phorate, was also found in a batch of Chinese-made fried pork rolls.

Wota surprise.

> However, investigations found the two firms involved - Shandong Nicky
> Foods Company and Qingqing Nicky Foods Company - are both wholly
> owned subsidiaries of Nicky Foods Company in Osaka, Japan,

Who got the ingredients from china, fuckwit.

> the General Administration of Quality Supervision,
> Inspection and Quarantine (AQSIQ) said in a statement.

As it desperately attempted to blame anyone but china for the problem.

> The administration said the companies followed Japanese production
> procedures and standards, and were supervised by Japanese staff.

And which clearly used ingredients sourced in china.

> "The contamination is likely to have been caused by loopholes in the
> producers' purchase of raw materials such as vegetables," it said,

As it desperately attempted to blame anyone but china for the problem.

> indicating the companies might have bought from
> suppliers other than designated export-oriented farms.

Or it might not have too.

> Meanwhile, another AQSIQ statement released on Friday said
> China had suspended all exports from the Shandong-based
> Wangyu Aquatic Food Company, whose mackerel products
> exported to Japan were allegedly contaminated with dichlorvos.

Funny that.

> However, it said the mackerel were originally caught in Denmark and
> all flavorings except salt were provided by the Japanese importer.

That aint a flavoring, fuckwit.

> Local quality authorities in Shandong also tested 18 samples
> from the factory, including all raw materials and packages,
> but found no traces of pesticide, according to AQSIQ.

As it desperately attempted to blame anyone but china for the problem.

> These alleged contamination incidents, along with a food poisoning case claimed
> to have been caused by unsafe frozen dumplings from China two weeks ago,

Which might just explain why whats currently in the factory isnt contaminated, fool.

> have sparked safety scares in Japan over Chinese-made food products.

Wota surprise.

> Both nations have pledged to cooperate in investigating
> these cases to avoid damaging diplomatic relations.

Fat lot of good that will do, they're damaged already, fool.

> AQSIQ said on Friday that a team of senior Chinese police officers, including
> top criminal investigator Wu Guoqing and toxicologist Wang Guiqiang, had
> arrived in Japan on Wednesday to help investigate the dumpling case.

And to blame anyone but china.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stock Alerts for your advantage
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9afb0fab8f40600b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 8:01 pm
From: lizzill.stockandstock.dasay@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.shopest.com.cn - wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electronic mobile
phone china shop ,low price.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e91a29f2e6b90e29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 9:20 pm
From: shopest001@hotmail.com

hi
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MSN and E-mail: shopest@hotmail.com

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 9:21 pm
From: shopest001@hotmail.com

hi
We are the biggest wholesale suppliers..........We have a lot of very
nice quality merchandises with the very special price

www.shopest.com.cn Sanli trade company

Sincerely looking forward to establish a pleasant and long-term
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MSN and E-mail: shopest@hotmail.com

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 9:22 pm
From: shopest001@hotmail.com

hi
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www.shopest.com.cn Sanli trade company

Sincerely looking forward to establish a pleasant and long-term
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MSN and E-mail: shopest@hotmail.com

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 9:23 pm
From: shopest001@hotmail.com

hi
We are the biggest wholesale suppliers..........We have a lot of very
nice quality merchandises with the very special price

www.shopest.com.cn Sanli trade company

Sincerely looking forward to establish a pleasant and long-term
relation with you.
Very faithfully yours,
Sanli trade company

best services,and timely delivery.
Website : http://www.shopest.com.cn
MSN and E-mail: shopest@hotmail.com

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 9:24 pm
From: shopest001@hotmail.com

hi
We are the biggest wholesale suppliers..........We have a lot of very
nice quality merchandises with the very special price

www.shopest.com.cn Sanli trade company

Sincerely looking forward to establish a pleasant and long-term
relation with you.
Very faithfully yours,
Sanli trade company

best services,and timely delivery.
Website : http://www.shopest.com.cn
MSN and E-mail: shopest@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxury Breitling Navitimer Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aa34bdbe7963e66f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 10:37 pm
From: ad90adece9@21cn.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap sell Digital Cameras，DJ Equipment, Electric guitars, Game
console, GPS, Laptops, Mobile Phone, Motorcycles, Mp3, Mp4, Road Bikes, TVs &
HDTVs.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/80b19ab9cfd8fad9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 10:44 pm
From: hyuyrjjiuirh@gmail.com

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==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

24 new messages in 16 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Recommend New Shopping Online Website
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ebeb41d8962d7146?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 1:00 am
From: rapee

Hello everybody,
I just want to recommend the new website that contain product and
also include comparison from many shops. That's fastest for you to
select the shop as cheap as you can. All shops are security purchase.
Gaurantee.
Visit the website at http://www.best-price-comparison.com

Thank.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:21 am
From: George Grapman

Interesting that a link for a camera take you to amazon.com which
asks for a credit card yet when one goes to the real amazon.com the
camera is not there.
Also interesting that the site given here is based in Thailand.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EMBARQ DSL - is this considered a "normal" deal? Experiences with
EMBARQ DSL?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18dfecd1b8a50883?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:59 am
From: LouB

Rich Greenberg wrote:
> In article <1c312c4c-536c-4af2-8bce-d9421d9c9365@m23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> Doc <docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
>> seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
>> a bit put off.
>
> I have Embarq DSL. If you are in an Embarq area, its probably the only
> DSL provider you can have as opposed to many bell areas where you can
> also get Earthlink, Focal and others.
>
> The one thing that really really frosts me is that there is no dial
> access that comes with it to use when the DSL is out or you are
> traveling. You need a second ISP for that.
>
> A minor annoyance was that if you try to go to a URL and you make a
> typo, instead of getting a "no such address" it took you to an Embarq
> site to try to sell you on Embarq services of various sorts. However, I
> did notice an item on the screen, "check here to disable this "service""
> which I have done and it now works properly. Earthlink introduced the
> same thing, but to escape you had to go in your internet settings and
> change the DNS pointer to an alternate Earthlink DNS server.
>
> I pay $29.95 a month for DSL, but shipping the modem was rebated and I
> don't recall any activation fee. Its part of a bundle which includes
> local service and unlimited LD service
>
> I don't recall any outages except one a few months ago which involved
> physical damage to my phone line (phone also out).

Unfortunately the local Embarq service in my area is much more expensive
because you have to pay extra for phone service.

My choice is Embarq or Comcast <SIGH> Both SUCK

Lou

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HD-TV converter box rip-off ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a9061c13abe5727?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 3:47 am
From: "Joe"

CLIP

> Next trick: I decided to call their 800 number on the telephone and make a

CLIP

What's that 800#?
--

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maybe a Useful Tip?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f183a07b441b7f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 3:54 am
From: "Joe"

Need something for a project or whatever? McMaster-Carr probably has it on
a shelf within a day's trip from you. Why is that important? Because you
can pay slightly more for something, pay the price of UPS Ground and have it
delivered to your home in 24 hours in most cases... The cost is a bit
higher, but the time saved is huge if you would have had to drive out to
"wherever" to buy the parts and spend time there, etc. Plus, with the price
of gasoline, it may even be cheaper depending on where you have to go.

So... When I need a "thing" whatever it is, I sometimes just order from
McMaster and have it delivered to my home. Sometimes they even use a
courier and if I order in the AM, I get it in the PM for the price of UPS
Ground...

Just a tip. No benefit to me if you use them... I'm not a spammer, I'm a
long time "member" here and lurk a lot...

www.mcmaster.com

Search for something. They probably have it. ...Except food I would think.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/hmzj
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cold water detergent
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28e84033bdbeafba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 4:12 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <%Keuj.3739$y05.143@newsfe22.lga>,
clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> >In article <fp9k91$a09$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Anyone have a recommendation?
> >>
> >>Marsha/Ohio
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Tide works for me.
> >
> >
>
> I'm surprised Tide dissolves in cold water. Back when I was in the
> textile business, a standard test for wash fastness utilized Tide as the
> soap. Making a Tide solution (even with hot water) always resulted in
> a sediment of undissolved particles.

Tide's Cold Water variety is liquid so dissolving is not an issue.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New freebies added...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fed023ef78edfc6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:02 am
From: lightninsurf

http://www.freestuffestore.com/new.html
latest freebies including free samples,
freeware, webmaster freebies and fun,
informative sites throughout the world
wide web. See the download of the day...

http://tinyurl.com/yuchql
Netwinner.com - See the new games!
Playing is Free, Fun & Easy!

Have a great day!
Happy freebie hunting!
http://www.FreeStuffeStore.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:08 am
From: Terryc

lightninsurf wrote:

> latest freebies including free samples,
> freeware, webmaster freebies and fun,
> informative sites throughout the world
> wide web. See the download of the day...

signed the cat up to oa local free site once. Now she is getting as much
mail as wee do from stock offers, harbour cruises, and even Readers
Digest wants her to subscribe.

I do hope the people at the post office have a chuckle evertime we RTS a
letter with the note that this is a cat.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 5:24 am
From: me@privacy.net

WaterBoy <waterboy@financier.com> wrote:

>.
>wireless antennas [$75 each]
>which picks up neighborhood internet.www
>
>1 year ago i bought 2 -- 1 upstairs, 1 down
>[saves me $30 a month]
>
>waterboy

What model/brand antennas? Have a link?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:44 am
From: "rick++"

I'm hoping to get one of theose digital convertor boxes free.
At least one store has indicated they may sell them for the
coupon price ($40). Possibly as a Black Friday enticement.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good customer service at walmart
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e81d86f16971c366?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:13 am
From: brother mouse

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:24:53 -0500, George wrote:

> Actually walmart deserves little praise because it didn't hurt them at
> all because they will simply ding the vendor. They will even accept
> stuff that has been obviously misused or damaged by the user and just
> nail the supplier so they can look good.

I was in the CS line with a product that was missing parts (a previous
return). The lady in front of us had two kids with freshly-shorn
buzzcuts; they still had hair bits on their shoulders and shirt.

Lady returned the buzzer because "it doesn't work". Ahhh, the American
consumer.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 6:43 am
From: "rick++"

They have lots of practice. On average, if I buy electonics at
the "W" maybe, the third one lasts the warranty period.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When Money Makes Law, We All Pay The Price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/20153049f8a07441?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 7:31 am
From: Snowbound

How the mere possession of wealth makes the law in the United States- if
you can pay enough people, you can easily suppress the voices of the
truly committed, and right and wrong mean nothing. It's hard to conceive
of a case where any corporate entity (most of which do not even pay
taxes on their company profits) with thinking management would not stoop
to such slimy-but-legal tactics as noted below to protect its interests.
It is also a substantial argument in favor of the Republic's desperate
need for regulatory protection against such measures.

<http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/02/26/ap4700632.html>

Comcast Corp. (CMCSA) on Tuesday acknowledged hiring people to fill
seats before the start of a contentious federal hearing on how the
company manages its broadband network, allowing its employees to take
those seats when the filled-to-capacity hearing started.

Many people were turned away before Monday's Federal Communications
Commission hearing at Harvard Law School, leading critics to accuse
Comcast of stifling debate over the company's practice of favoring some
forms of Internet traffic over others.

Comcast said it hired people to hold seats only after an advocacy group
called Free Press urged its backers to attend.

[...more]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheapest electrical product<http://picasaweb.google.com/electrical.co>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5a81ecc886eef599?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 7:35 am
From: electrical.co@gmail.com

Hi friends:
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/518965e7206b8f54?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 8:09 am
From: xiaobb15@gmail.com

Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!

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Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!

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TOPIC: www.forsalesneaker.com discount NBA NFL Jerseys jordans basketball nike
tennis sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e1caf4584498737b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 10:09 am
From: sneakerforsale18@yahoo.com.cn

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TOPIC: Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater
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==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 1:49 pm
From: John

On Sat 16 Feb 2008 23:08:42, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
<donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:57:32 GMT, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer
> Coordinator wrote:
>> I would guess any engineer should be able to tell us what this
>> 41,045 magic number really is.
>
> I'm surprised a chemist or engineer isn't on this group.
>
> I think this is the fundamental answer!
>
> page 11, Water Heating Calculations
> http://www.green-trust.org/2000/solar/solar.pdf
> 43,302 kJ/day is 41,045 Btu/day is the energy delivered to the hot
> water load per day
>
> And, this one says most plumbers don't understand the efficiency
> factor for home water heaters
>
> Residential Gas Water Heating:
> Program Design & Specification Considerations, page 6
> http://www.cee1.org/cee/mtg/09-07ppt/Tuesday/6%20Residential%
> 20%20Gas%20water%20heating.ppt
> Annual Savings (Therms/year) is based on
> the DOE Test Procedure: (41,045 Btu/EF*365)/100,000

Boing!! Payoff.

You tell 'em Donna. Show them you knew the answer all along.

Poor "58plumbers@gmail.com" and others like him now don't know what's
hit them.

Nothing like reeling in a very long fishing line that you've
carefully laid out. Good one!!

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 1:54 pm
From: John

On Mon 18 Feb 2008 15:16:55, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
<donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:29:11 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:
>> I just replaced the anodes ... on two ancient (80's) water heaters
>> it turns out that they were both still in good shape
>
> Hi Nate,
>
> That brings up the first (of many) questions that arose when we
> replaced our hot water heater (with your help) yesterday ...
>
> 1. I agree, while replacing the altruistic anode is a "good thing"
> ...
>

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2274079124_f60ec145cf.
> jpg?v=0
>
> The problem I found is ...
>
> 2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
>

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/2274085498_52c3b7d618.jpg
> ?v=0
>
> Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the
> anode with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ...
> and given that any in-place plumbing and vent ducts would have
> severely hampered access ... and given that a water heater isn't
> rigidly "mounted" ... I wonder ...
>
> Can anyone really expect to remove the anode when it needs
> inspection? Why don't they provide TWO HOLES so you can add a
> second anode when needed?
>
> Donna
> http://www.flickr.com/donnaohl

Hello Donna, you seem to have learnt quite a surprsing amount for
someone who has was a novice just a few weeks ago and who does not
have a background in mechanical engineering.

I'm impressed.

Or i would be impressed if I could believe it but I am afrain I can't
beleieve it.

What did you say was your line of work?

If you have time when you're not posting extended posts to a "quick
and basic" question?

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 1:56 pm
From: John

On Thu 21 Feb 2008 15:01:43, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
<donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Following is a idealized anatomy of a hot water heater replacement
> and recommended maintenance performed, basically, on the Internet,
> in real time, with the help of everyone here.
>
> This procedure, which combines the best found on the Internet and
> which takes into account *every* single of the hundreds of replies
> in this newsgroup, is posted with the hope that the next amateur
> replacing their natural gas galvanized pipe home hot water heater
> prints this out and follows it to their delight and benefit!
>
> A complete set of photos of every step below is available at
> http://www.flickr.com/donnaohl
>
> Here it is... this is an idealized version of my experience last
> week!
>
> If you have old galvanized pipes, consider these preventive steps:
> - Remove all debris screens from faucets, & tubs to prevent
> clogging - Shut water to dishwaswher to prevent clogging of
> dishwasher screens - Remove tub valves (I think) to prevent
> clogging of tubs
>
> Remove the hot-water heater:
> - Shut off the natural gas at the main gas meter (optional)
> - Shut off the natural gas at the local hot-water heater
> (mandatory) - Wait for the pilot light to go out to ensure no gas
> is left in the line - Turn the thermostat on the hot-water heater
> to the off position - Wait overnight, if possible, to allow the hot
> water in the tank to cool - Or run 10 or 20 gallons of hot water in
> the house to dilute the tank - You will be very glad you cooled the
> water in the tank: Trust me! - Shut off the main household cold
> water (if replacing the gate valve) - Shut the cold-water
> gate-valve right-side inlet to the hot-water heater - Open at least
> one hot-water faucet in the house to drain off pressure - Open the
> temperature and pressure valve as a safety measure (optional) -
> Unscrew the cold-water inlet at the nipple at the top of the tank
> - Unscrew the hot-water outlet at the nipple at the top of the tank
> - Use two wrenches on flex connectors or they twist like a phone
> cord! - Unscrew the natural gas inlet to the water-heater
> thermostat - Cap the newly disconnected natural gas line to prevent
> contamination - Connect a garden hose to the plastic
> hot-water-heater drain valve - Open drain valve to drain hot water
> where it will not damage anything - If 40/50 gallons doesn't come
> out something is clogged (very common) - Shake and prod and push to
> get the water out (it happened to me) - Otherwise you'll be moving
> a full tank which can tip (it happened to me) - Disconnect garden
> hose and close drain valve when done (40 or 50 gallons) - Unscrew
> the sheet-metal screw holding the vent pipe to the draft hood -
> Separate the vent pipe from the draft hood (the hat on top middle)
> - Unscrew sheet-metal screws holding gas-flue hat onto the vent
> pipe - Separate the vent pipe from the gas-flue hat on top center
> of your heater - Unscrew the seismic straps (if any) as the last
> thing before removal - Remove old heater off the elevated base with
> two people and a handtruck - Remove all water plumbing up to and
> including the old shut-off valve - Remove all gas plumbing up to
> and including the old shut-off valve
>
> Replace hot-water heater:
> WHILE THE NEW TANK IS SITTING (DRY) ON THE GARAGE FLOOR:
> - Remove the heater from the box by cutting the box completely
> open - Replace the plastic drain valve with a brass ball valve
> (optional) - Install the new temperature and pressure (T&P) relief
> valve (if needed) - Note: The brass T&P relief valve may already be
> installed on your tank - Install the cold water dialectric
> check-valve nipple (on the top right) - Install the hot water
> dialectric ckeck-valve nipple (on the top left) - Note: The 2
> check-valve nipples may already be installed on your tank. - Wrap
> three layers of teflon tape on each dialectric check-valve nipple
> - Remember: Always use 2 wrenches when screwing & unscrewing pipe
> fittings!
>
> MOUNT THE TANK & POSITION THE VENT AND HOOD:
> - Mount and level the new hot water heater on the 18-inch elevated
> base - Ensure at least six inches of clear space all around the new
> heater - Hacksaw the old gas vent so that it fits the new larger
> water heater - Ensure the gas vent aligns with the center of the
> hot-water heater - Insert legs of the draft hood into the holes in
> the top of the heater - Drill a 1/8 inch hole into the draft hood
> and 3-inch vent pipe - Screw in at least 1 sheet-metal screw from
> the vent hood to the vent pipe
>
> ATTACH THE COLD WATER INLET:
> - Wrap Teflon tape on the threads of the fittings supplied with the
> tank - Insert a blue heat-trap fitting (arrow down) into the
> cold-water inlet - Ensure the last two threads are never covered
> with Teflon tape - Look end-on through all fittings to ensure no
> Teflon tape overlap - Do not use pipe dope on any threads where
> Teflon tape is noted below - Screw the cold-water inlet male:male
> nipple into the top of the tank - Wrap Teflon tape on the thread of
> the galvanized 3/4" water-inlet pipe - Screw a dialectric union on
> the 3/4" galvanized cold-water inlet pipe - Check for Teflon tape
> on the threads of each male:male brass nipple - Screw the brass
> male:male nipple on the female:female dialectric union - Screw a
> new ball-valve shutoff onto this vertical cold-water inlet pipe -
> Wrap Teflon tape on the threads of another male:male brass nipple
> - Screw this male:male nipple into the new ball-valve shutoff
> - Screw the copper flex pipe onto the cold-water inlet brass
> nipples
>
> ATTACH THE HOT WATER OUTLET:
> - Wrap Teflon tape on the threads of the fittings supplied with the
> tank - Ensure the last two threads are never covered with Teflon
> tape - Do not use pipe dope on any threads where Teflon tape is
> noted below - Insert a red heat-trap fitting (arrow up) into the
> tank hot-water outlet - Wrap Teflon tape on the thread of the
> galvanized 3/4" water-outlet pipe - Screw a dialectric union on the
> 3/4" galvanized hot-water outlet pipe - Wrap Teflon tape on the
> threads of each male:male brass nipple - Screw the brass male:male
> nipple on the female:female dialectric union - Screw a new one-way
> check-valve onto this vertical hot-water outlet pipe - Wrap Teflon
> tape on the threads of another male:male brass nipple - Screw this
> male:male nipple into the new ball-valve shutoff - Screw the copper
> flex pipe onto the hot-water inlet brass nipples - Bend the copper
> flex pipe into an S shape to further inhibit heat loss
>
> ATTACH THE T&P SAFETY PIPE:
> - Screw on rigid high-temperature water pipe to the T&P valve
> - The open outlet must be six inches (no more, no less) from the
> floor - The open outlet must not be threaded; no valves or traps
> are allowed - Place a bowl or bucket at the outlet of this open
> overflow pipe - Test the T&P valve & plumbing by flipping the
> little aluminum lever - Scalding hot water should sputter out of
> the pipe outlet
>
> TURN ON THE WATER SUPPLY:
> - Optionally, remove all the screens from your water faucets
> - Optionally, shut off the water to your dishwasher to prevent
> clogging - Optionally, remove the shower heads to prevent clogging
> - I'm not sure what to remove yet to prevent your tub from clogging
> - Open at least one hot-water faucet in the house to bleed out air
> - Slowly open the main cold-water input to the house
> - Open the new ball-valve cold-water input to the hot-water heater
> - Check for leaks in the plumbing as the tank fills
> - Place a pan or bowl at the T&P overflow tube & test the T&P valve
>
> ATTACH THE NATURAL GAS INLET:
> - Always connect the natural gas line as the very last step in this
> process - Set the thermostat on the hot-water heater to the off
> position - Coat male natural gas line threads with stick pipe dope
> (no teflon) - Ensure the last two threads are not covered with any
> pipe dope - Connect the new (yellow) natural gas flex pipe to the
> thermostat - Turn on natural gas at the main switch (if it was
> turned off) - Turn on natural gas at the local inlet to the water
> heater - Test for leaks by toothbrushing a solution of dish
> detergent and water - Read and carefully follow the manufacturer's
> lighting instructions
>
> INSULATION:
> - Wrap additional insulation around your hot-water heater, if
> desired - Wrap insulation around your hot-water outlet pipe, if
> desired
>
> DISPOSAL:
> - Perform an autopsy on the old water heater by removing all
> plumbing - Remove & inspect the 1 1/16 inch 3-foot 8-inch
> sacrificial anode - Remove & inspect the T&P valve
> - Call the local garbage or recycling to haul away the old water
> heater
>
> Twice a year:
> - Clint combusion-air lint screens (at the bottom inch of the water
> heater) - Place a pan or bowl at the temperature & pressure valve
> overflow tube - Test the T&P valve by flipping the lever as water
> violently sputters out - Turn the natural gas to the PILOT setting
> (or shut it off completely) - Leave the cold-water intake valve
> open at the top right of the heater - Open at least one hot-water
> faucet on any level above the water heater - Gently connect a
> garden hose to your hot water heater drain valve - Route the open
> end of the garden hose where hot water won't damage things - Open
> the lower drain valve to empty a few gallons of muddy hot water -
> Shut the drain valve when that water runs clear (approx 10 gallons)
> - Once every three years, remove the 1 1/16-inch sacrificial anode
> - Replace the 3'8" sacrificial anode if corroded or calcium
> passivated - To replace, bend the magnesium anode or replace with
> sausage links - Turn the natural gas back on and ensure the burner
> is working properly

Donna, do you think the other people who have posted to help you
actually suspect what is going on? :-)

Some must have realized it by now. Do you think they are just
keeping quiet?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:03 pm
From: cavedweller

On Feb 27, 4:56 pm, John <n...@email.com> wrote:

> Donna, do you think the other people who have posted to help you
> actually suspect what is going on? :-)
>
> Some must have realized ...

Maybe, maybe not...but John, you're quite late with this post. Please
do try to keep up. Bill does. :)

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:07 pm
From: John

On Tue 19 Feb 2008 16:33:27, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
<donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:06:39 GMT, John wrote:
>> Nice start. "Quick". "Basic".
>> Good words to reel in the punters.
>
> Dear John,
>
> Did you actually *read* the thread?
>

Hello Donna, yes I read the thread with interest. It's a great one.
You must make room for it in your scrap book as this thread is one of
your better victories.

> If you did, you'll note that this group moved a novice from a leaky
> water heater to someone who became rather knowledgeable in how to
> purchase a water heater, how to calculate costs and tradeoffs, what
> to modify on the new water heater, what the warranty does and does
> not offer, what materiel is required and how much it costs, what
> are some of the pitfalls of installing a water heater on your own,
> an autopsy of the old water heater, detailed complete photos (I
> took hundreds and posted more than 50 for all to see) for a public
> assessment of the work performed, and I posted dozens of PDFs and
> links to key literature explaining things like how teflon doesn't
> affect the electrical connection, how the government calculates
> average household usage, how much a tenth of an EF point really
> means in dollars (about $5/year), how to adjust seismic straps,
> etc.

I find it very strange that a simple thread took such a long convoluted
route as you describe. You start off by knowing nothing and you end up
by telling specialists what various things are after you have asked them
several times (like the origin of 41,045).

Lovely. Alleged "little old lady" ends up telling the engineers the
information they do not know.

You outclass many of these guys so where was the fun in stringing them
along?

>
> I asked. I responded. I was courteous. I was timely.
> We took your advice. We did the work. I posted pictures of the
> results. I responded to each and every comment that suggested a
> response.
>

Yes, I love the photos. Thet're a very, very nice touch. They kind of
add a whole new false realism to your claim to who you are and your
sincerity.

Well, almost anyway.

Makes them believe more and more that you are Donna just as you state
you are. Nice.

> And I plan on redoing some of the work as a result (e.g. the
> flexible gas line and the drain bib and the overflow pipe, etc.).
>
> If I received help, I thank the group for that. If I sound
> knowledgeable, and if that offends you, it's only because of the
> kind help from this group and from my research.

Let's do a sanity check. What is all this about?

Er, well now it seems to have mysteriously morphed from what it started
out as until it has become unrecognisable.

Main thing is how much time from others it has taken. Lovely. Greatest
shaggy dog thread I have seen in a while.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 2:07 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 23, 1:37 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> When it comes to buying something, where do you find the best value?
>
> TMT

Anyone else?

Considering that this IS the misc.consumers.frugal-living group I
would expect this discussion to be one of the most active.

Or does everyone look for WORST value when you have to purchase
something?

TMT

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