Frugal Living: Aug 9, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Does TAKING THE LANE slow down traffic? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/53572018da3c57f0?hl=en
* OT: Climate Change - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/644bf640f475d0c1?hl=en
* I GOT $2000 FROM PAYPAL . - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2e95bf9d0a006a70?hl=en
* Why people don't commute by bike? - 9 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a940e0b0554395e?hl=en
* pretty girls hot videos&photos - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b999976092159e71?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does TAKING THE LANE slow down traffic?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/53572018da3c57f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 8 2010 11:42 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <8cfa013c-a348-4fe8-892d-9d845b99156c@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote: (I edit here for space)
>On Aug 8, 12:37 pm, "Mike Painter" <md.pain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote:

>The same thing just happened to me while driving. The cyclist gave me
>a scare, but he must have seen me. WHY DON'T THEY BAN CYCLING ON
>SIDEWALKS?
>
>What kind of respect do PEDESTRIANS get that don't deserve protection
>from cyclists?

How about laws that prohibit cycling on sidewalks?

Such as 1 PA law that says that bikes are restricted to bike lanes where
bike lanes are available?

And a 2nd PA law that prohibits cycling on sidewalks in "business
districts"?

How about at least 1 Philadelphia against persons older than 12 years
of age cycling on sidewalks?

I like how I occaisionally see *police officers* cycling in non-
emergency manner on sidewalks where it is illegal to do so.

So, I sometimes ride on sidewalks. And when I do so, I yield to
pedestrians.

Every bike that I ride has a horn and a siren, thanks to my willingness
to use a loud falsetto voice. However, when I am cycling on a sidewalk, I
like to merely request pedestrians to get out of my way. I think that I
have a high rate of doing that well!

And failing that, I do "My Usual" - making my bike a road vehicle
recognized by PA's "vehicle code"!

However, "making nice" goes a long way! And when on a road where
vehicle code enforcement is lacking, "Do unto others as you would have
them do unto you"!

That may explain why truckers in Mexico respect those traveling along
Mexican roads by riding a mule (or a donkey?).

>Just like in the Animal Kingdom we have a FOOD CHAIN at work.
>
>But nobody has demonstrated to me that drivers are slowed down by
>cyclists taking the lane. The drivers must avoid the cyclist and move
>away from him, the more the better. WHY AREN'T DRIVERS HONEST AND TELL
>US THEY WANT US OUT OF THEIR WAY,

I have had some motor vehicle drivers spew such "honest vitriol" against
cyclists...

>AND PASS THE PROBLEM TO THE POWERLESS PEDESTRIANS?

In Philadelphia, pedestrians are close to opposite of powerless. It
appears to me that Philadelphia's "legal culture" favors a jaywalker
having an obvious red light over road users that have a green light.

For that matter, many Philadelphians flout PA law by dropping litter
when a sidewalk-deployed trash can is deployed 6-10 meters ahead of
such "Philadelphian litterbugs".

I sometimes cycle on sidewalks in Philadelphia, though I usually cycle
in the street where "vehicles" belong. When I cycle on sidewalks, I ride
slowly enough to be able to yield to 100% of pedestrians. And I don't
"bully my way through".

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:11 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 8, 10:10 pm, "Sharx35" <shar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "dbu," <nos...@nobama.com.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:PP6dne74m8AzvMLRnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <02ded251-e9a8-4688-bab7-65cecb208...@y12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Cyclists that block a lane should be run over. Nothing worse than
> >> > some ass-wipe in gay spandex blocking a traffic lane. If you can't
> >> > pedal at least 45 mph get off the road. If there is no bike lane than
> >> > the road is for motor vehicles only. Move to China.
>
> >> Right on! Why should a motorist slow down for anything? Those
> >> pedestrians stepping off the curb? They expect you to yield?
>
> >> Target practice!
>
> > You must be joking, ha-hah, yes.
>
> > Cyclists have rights of way. Brush up on your state laws regarding
> > other forms of transportations besides gas powered vehicles.
>
> So, HOW many cyclists fork out for insurance in case they damage someone's
> sheet metal? How much do cyclists pay for registration? How many cyclists
> pay even a fraction of the cost of the average new car for their flimsy
> bike?
>
> > --

So now we are talking about damn money... How about sparing that money
going into war for bike facilities? How about using the same
facilities we already have (TAKING THE LANE)?

What option looks better to you?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:28 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 8, 11:42 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <8cfa013c-a348-4fe8-892d-9d845b991...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
>
> His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote: (I edit here for space)
> >On Aug 8, 12:37 pm, "Mike Painter" <md.pain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >The same thing just happened to me while driving. The cyclist gave me
> >a scare, but he must have seen me. WHY DON'T THEY BAN CYCLING ON
> >SIDEWALKS?
>
> >What kind of respect do PEDESTRIANS get that don't deserve protection
> >from cyclists?
>
> How about laws that prohibit cycling on sidewalks?
>
> Such as 1 PA law that says that bikes are restricted to bike lanes where
> bike lanes are available?
>
> And a 2nd PA law that prohibits cycling on sidewalks in "business
> districts"?
>
> How about at least 1 Philadelphia against persons older than 12 years
> of age cycling on sidewalks?

All those laws are senseless and chaotic. There's one district around
here that prohibits riding on sidewalk, but only because the residents
are wealthy. The law also tells you to walk bike across bridges, even
when sidewalks can't accommodate you and the bike.

>
> I like how I occaisionally see *police officers* cycling in non-
> emergency manner on sidewalks where it is illegal to do so.

Banana Republic.
>
> So, I sometimes ride on sidewalks. And when I do so, I yield to
> pedestrians.

Bad boy. ;)

I don't blame those who do so in order to survive, but don't respect
those who don't demand more respect on the roads.

>
> Every bike that I ride has a horn and a siren, thanks to my willingness
> to use a loud falsetto voice. However, when I am cycling on a sidewalk, I
> like to merely request pedestrians to get out of my way. I think that I
> have a high rate of doing that well!

I bet your speed is next to the usual walking pace, which renders the
bicycle nearly useless.

>
> And failing that, I do "My Usual" - making my bike a road vehicle
> recognized by PA's "vehicle code"!
>
> However, "making nice" goes a long way! And when on a road where
> vehicle code enforcement is lacking, "Do unto others as you would have
> them do unto you"!
>
> That may explain why truckers in Mexico respect those traveling along
> Mexican roads by riding a mule (or a donkey?).

Really? That makes Mexico highly civilized. Afghanistan too! I think
they respect people WALKING A HERD in the middle of Kabul, judging by
a video I saw.

>
> >Just like in the Animal Kingdom we have a FOOD CHAIN at work.
>
> >But nobody has demonstrated to me that drivers are slowed down by
> >cyclists taking the lane. The drivers must avoid the cyclist and move
> >away from him, the more the better. WHY AREN'T DRIVERS HONEST AND TELL
> >US THEY WANT US OUT OF THEIR WAY,
>
> I have had some motor vehicle drivers spew such "honest vitriol" against
> cyclists...

They know they can get away with it and they harass cyclists trying to
chase them away onto the sidewalks.

>
> >AND PASS THE PROBLEM TO THE POWERLESS PEDESTRIANS?
>
> In Philadelphia, pedestrians are close to opposite of powerless. It
> appears to me that Philadelphia's "legal culture" favors a jaywalker
> having an obvious red light over road users that have a green light.
>
> For that matter, many Philadelphians flout PA law by dropping litter
> when a sidewalk-deployed trash can is deployed 6-10 meters ahead of
> such "Philadelphian litterbugs".
>
> I sometimes cycle on sidewalks in Philadelphia, though I usually cycle
> in the street where "vehicles" belong. When I cycle on sidewalks, I ride
> slowly enough to be able to yield to 100% of pedestrians. And I don't
> "bully my way through".
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

In Miami proper (except downtown) and suburbs pedestrians are
"endangered species," hardly seen going around. I think that's the
culture of the sprawl and the car, present in most cities in the
South. Los Angeles is like that too. Miami Beach is the exception a
little bit, but pedestrians seem to be "fair game" according to some
recent close calls.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Climate Change
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/644bf640f475d0c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 2:48 am
From: "FarmI"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i3o5eh$qu8$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 08/08/10 22:24, FarmI wrote:
>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:i3nv9u$50n$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 08/08/10 06:57, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> "Analying the data" consists of taking many readings and comparing
>>>> the data to the output of very sophisticated computer models.
>>>>
>>>> I've yet to see ONE critic even claim that they've developed a
>>>> computer model, found a problem with the existing computer models,
>>>> or that they have their own readings.
>>>>
>>>> Your taunt about forming your own conclusions reveals a stricking
>>>> ignorance about the subject.
>>>
>>> No, it reveals that I am intimately acquainted with someone who HAS
>>> analyzed the data and found it wanting.
>>
>> LOL. You mean to tell us that you didn't take your own advice but
>> believed
>> what someone else told you? Well done!
>
> I know his credentials. I know how his "peers" regard him. I know that
> he's been analyzing data -- professionally -- for 50 years. I know he
> doesn't lie. I know he has no axe to grind. And I know he's smarter than
> you are.

:-)) An ad. hom. to add to the score. You're really piling on the points
for lack of credibility. Well done!

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 5:52 am
From: Jeff Thies

On 8/8/2010 10:57 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
> Jeff Thies wrote:
>> On 8/7/2010 1:19 PM, Billy wrote:
>>> In article<8c4hjeFe31U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> "Rod Speed"<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pauling had a PhD and an Nobel Prize and was always a complete loon.
>>>
>>> Pauling has TWO Nobel Prizes and was always the smartest guy in the
>>> room, but I will cede to your superior familiarity with loons.
>>
>> You are either a quick study or you have run across Rod before. I had
>> felt some regret that I had brought Rod into a new unsuspecting group.
>>
>> I'll watch my cross posting in the future.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Those who may not want to follow this whole thread will find a good
> approximation here:
>
> http://www.sensationbot.com/chat-rodspeed.html

LOL!

Jeff
>
> David

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:27 am
From: Bill who putters

<http://surf.kbs.msu.edu/ghgcalculator/>

6 % CO2 from food production. Conventional Vs. no-till calculator.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
globalvoicesonline.org

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:37 am
From: Billy

In article <i3otll$3ju$1@news.albasani.net>,
Jeff Thies <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote:

> On 8/8/2010 10:57 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
> > Jeff Thies wrote:
> >> On 8/7/2010 1:19 PM, Billy wrote:
> >>> In article<8c4hjeFe31U1@mid.individual.net>,
> >>> "Rod Speed"<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Pauling had a PhD and an Nobel Prize and was always a complete loon.
> >>>
> >>> Pauling has TWO Nobel Prizes and was always the smartest guy in the
> >>> room, but I will cede to your superior familiarity with loons.
> >>
> >> You are either a quick study or you have run across Rod before. I had
> >> felt some regret that I had brought Rod into a new unsuspecting group.
> >>
> >> I'll watch my cross posting in the future.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >
> > Those who may not want to follow this whole thread will find a good
> > approximation here:
> >
> > http://www.sensationbot.com/chat-rodspeed.html
>
> LOL!
>
> Jeff
> >
> > David

He doesn't offer any information just his opinion, obscenities, and
invectives, i.e. a waste of time.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/07/201072816515308172.html

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 9:24 am
From: despen@verizon.net

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 08/08/10 06:57, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
>>
>> "Analying the data" consists of taking many readings and comparing
>> the data to the output of very sophisticated computer models.
>>
>> I've yet to see ONE critic even claim that they've developed a
>> computer model, found a problem with the existing computer models,
>> or that they have their own readings.
>>
>> Your taunt about forming your own conclusions reveals a striking
>> ignorance about the subject.
>
> No, it reveals that I am intimately acquainted with someone who HAS
> analyzed the data and found it wanting.

Well?

Are we just supposed to take your word for it?

> And fix your spellchecker.

Aggh! It was turned off.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 9:41 am
From: Billy

In article <slrni5v68m.fnu.don@manx.misty.com>,
don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

> In <wildbilly-1AA5DD.22005708082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy wrote:
>
> >In article <slrni5ut2d.fnu.don@manx.misty.com>,
> > don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <wildbilly-6915B0.12330708082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> >> Billy
> >> wrote in part:
> >>
> >> >In article
> >> ><f96596d6-50fc-42af-ab4d-8089eb87d112@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > Chris <chris.linthompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Aug 8, 1:23 pm, Bill who putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
> >> >> > In article <b2forewagner-162A99.13113708082...@news.supernews.com>,
> >> >> > Bill who putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > > In article
> >> >> > > <wildbilly-74E3AC.09590308082...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>
> >> >> > > ,
> >> >> > > Billy <wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > > > Anecdotally, I've been taking 1 g of vitamin C/day since the
> >> >> > > > early
> >> >> > > > 70s
> >> >> > > > and 6 g/day if I have a cold (which is rare).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > I doubt there is any silver bullet for either colds, or cancer
> >> >> > > > (The
> >> >> > > > latter seems to be part of "metabolic syndrome". Staying away
> >> >> > > > from
> >> >> > > > polyunsaturated oils, would probably help.).
> >>
> >> I heard that the bad ones are saturated ones and ones with all
> >> "unsaturations" (double bonds) being of "trans" alignment.
> >>
> >> That means the "bad ones" are coconut and palm oil, cocoa butter, fats
> >> of warm blooded animals, and *partially hydrogenated* polyunsaturated
> >> fats (partially hydrogenated typically-extratropical vegetable oils).
> >>
> >> Unhydrogenated polyunsaturated fats have a high rate of sounding to me
> >> to be "OK, or at least OK as far as fat intake goes".
> >>
> >> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
> >
> >Yes, this is the debate that Ansel Keys started with his claim that
> >saturated fat causes cholesterol, which causes "cadiovascular disease".
> >The problem appears when you understand that Ansel Keys cherry picked
> >his information, Dwight Eisenhower died of a heart attack even though he
> >was on a low fat diet, and that many healthy cultures survived on
> >saturated fats, and none on polyunsatuated fats.
> >The gist is that agriculture, eating grains (carbohydrates), is the
> >biggest change in the human diet in the last 2,000,000 years,
>
> Are you on the "Low Carb" bandwagon? Favored not only by those selling
> low-carb foods, but also favored by farmers of grains? An attitude of
> "carbs (or grains) is what food eats" favors increased grain sales through
> inefficient 4-footed or feathered middlemen!
If you are going to characterize me ("on low-carb bandwagon") I don't
see any point in continuing a conversation.
Grains aren't particularly good for animals either. If steers weren't
slaughtered at 6 mo. in CAFO, they would die anyway from stomach ulcers.
Ruminants were never meant to eat grains. They were meant to eat grass.
It is only because grains are US taxpayer subsidized that they are so
cheap. Feed it to chickens or farmed salmon, and they don't get omega3,
which they pass on in eggs and flesh. Omega3s come from leaves,
blood-clotting omega6s come from grains.
>
> > and most of the medical problems of western culture stem from insulin
> >rushes caused by the sugar, refined, and in the starches of grains.
>
> I closely know a veterinary student who tells me that Type II diabetes
> results primarily from being overweight due to excessive calorie intake,
> and occurs plenty-enough with even an outright carb-free diet.
I'd like a citation for that. "Western disease" (metabolic syndrome),
from my reading, usually manifests itself with the introduction of
refined carbs (white flour, white rice, sugar).

>
> Meanwhile, what does this have to do with polyunsaturated vs. other
> types of dietary fats?
>
Ancel Keys deduced that if saturated fats raised cholesterol, they were
bad, and since polyunsaturated fats (PUF) lowered cholesterol, they must
be good.
Then in the early 70s reports started coming out that PUFs seemed to be
giving lab animals cancer.

<http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fats_and_cancer.html>

According to Ray Peat, Ph.D., a physiologist who has studied hormones
and dietary fats since 1968, says the polyunsaturated fatty acids or
PUFAs in vegetable seed oils are the bane of human health ‹ they
actually cause cancer, diabetes, obesity, aging, thrombosis, arthritis,
and immunodeficiencies. Their only appropriate use, he says, is as
ingredients in paints and varnishes.
<http://www.thescreamonline.com/essays/essays5-1/vegoil.html>

> >The definitive book is "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and
> >the Controversial Science of Diet and Health" (Vintage) by Gary Taubes
> ><http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033
> >462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281329439&sr=1-1>
> >
> >p. 15
> >The incidence and severity atherosclerosis are not directly affected by
> >the level of cholesterol in the blood serum per se.
> >
> >p. 96
> >White flour's low protein, vitamins, and mineral content made it "less
> >liable than whole meal flour to infestations by beetles and the
> >depredations of rodents", as Sir Stanley Davidson and Reginald Passmore
> >observed in their textbook Human Nutrition and Dietetics (1963).
> >
> >p.194
> >Anything that raises blood sugar - in particular, the consumption of
> >refined and easily digestible carbohydrates -
>
> For that matter in general, especially for timeframe more than a couple
> to a few hours, anything that has calories -
It's the insulin spike from the carbs.
>
> > - will increase the
> >generation of oxidants and free radicals; it will increase the rate of
> >oxidative stress and glycation,and the formation and accumulation of
> >advanced glycation end products. This means that anything that raises
> >blood sugar, by the logic of the carbohydrate hypothesis, will lead to
> >more atherosclerosis and heart disease, more vascular disorders, and a
> >pace of accelerated degeneration, even in those of us who never become
> >diabetic.
>
> While that neglects or attempts to ignore role of fats in formation of
> arterial plaque.
We normally talk about LDL, and HDLs, but there is also Very Low Density
Lipids (VLDL) which mostly transport triglycerides, and are very small
and have an easier time adhering to the walls of arteries than the
balloon like LDLs. Our bodies need cholesterol as a precursor to vitamin
D. The brain represents only about 2 percent of your body weight, but
actually has about 20 percent of your body's cholesterol. There is
strong evidence that cholesterol is important for synaptic function and
is an essential component of cell membranes in the brain.

>
> And, what does that have to do with polyunsaturated being or not being a
> "bad" kind of fat?
>
> <I snip from here mostly a link to where to buy a book by someone who
> wants to sell books, and somewhat poorly formatted for citation due to a
> bit that comes up as gibberish in old-farters' newsreaders>

The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability by Lierre Keith
(Paperback - May 1, 2009)
<http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Justice-Sustainability/dp/160
4860804/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281371938&sr=1-1>

If you had any sense, you would realize that these books are available
FREE from your local library.

I think I've answered all the questions from you as I care to.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/07/201072816515308172.html

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:02 am
From: Billy

In article <slrni5v4t8.fnu.don@manx.misty.com>,
don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

> In article <8c9ar2Fo7tU1@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed wrote:
> >Don Klipstein wrote
> >> Rod Speed wrote
> >>> Billy wrote
> >>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>> Billy wrote
> >>>>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>>>> Billy wrote
> >
> >>>>>>>> Three independent reviews into the affair were initiated in the
> >>>>>>>> UK, two of which were concluded by the end of March 2010,
> >>>>>>>> with the remaining review releasing its findings on 7 July.
> >
> >>>>>>>> The scientific consensus that "global warming is happening and
> >>>>>>>> that it is induced by human activity" was found unchallenged by
> >>>>>>>> the emails[12] and there was "no evidence of any deliberate
> >>>>>>>> scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic
> >>>>>>>> Research Unit."
> >
> >>>>>>> And Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman: Monica Lewinsky.
> >
> >>>>>> Actually, the judge said he could use the dictionary definition, which
> >>>>>> was vaginal, so TECHNICALLY he didn't have sex with that woman.
> >
> >>>>>> But what does that have to do with "Global Warming", or do you
> >>>>>> just like to talk about oral sex? Do you have something to say?
> >>>>>> Spit it out.
> >
> >>>>> That governments and governmental leaders will say what they need
> >>>>> to say regardless of the truth, and that you can find "independent
> >>>>> reviewers" to arrive at whatever conclusion you want -- or can afford.
> >
> >>>>> Where did they find an "independent review" panel composed of
> >>>>> persons who (a) can evaluate the data; (b) can evaluate the
> >>>>> language used;
> >>>>> and (c) have no connection one way or the other with the global
> >>>>> warming controversy?
> >
> >>>>> The globe gets warmer and cooler and has done so for quite a long
> >>>>> time. I think it would be more sensible to try to figure out how
> >>>>> to deal with change rather than engage in the rather fruitless
> >>>>> undertaking of trying to stop it.
> >
> >>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
> >
> >>>> Well, Bev, we can all agree that CO2 levels are going up, right?
> >
> >>> Yes, but they were MUCH higher in the distant past.
> >
> >> Mostly such as times when Greenland and Antarctica lacked thick ice
> >> sheets, and sea level was a couple hundred meters higher than it is now.
> >
> >Yes, but the earth clearly managed fine with those much higher CO2 levels.
>
> Yes, this planet has managed to cope with events that fell short of
> outright blowing it up.
>
> As for a recently-dominating species that implemented industrialization
> that is mostly in the past couple centuries of a 4-plus billion year old
> planet known to harbor life forms including intelligent ones, I see a
> different problem: Avoid changing sea level by so much as 1 meter from
> what industrial coastal cities are accustomed to.
>
> >>>> And we can all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, right?
> >
> >>> Doesnt mean that that is necessarily a bad thing.
> >
> >> <SNIP issues of ocean pH, how many billions of people this planet
> >> is carrying or will carry successfully or otherwise, whatever else>
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

You know about phytoplankton? Phytoplankton that contribute half of the
worlds oxygen?
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1298596/Massive-40-declin
e-oceans-phytoplankton-puts-entire-food-chain-threat.html>

<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38451744/ns/us_news-environment>

You really should shove that rock off of you, and join the world.

None is so blind as he who will not see.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/07/201072816515308172.html

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:00 am
From: Bill who putters

In article
<wildbilly-A3F71F.09415009082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:

> If you had any sense, you would realize that these books are available
> FREE from your local library.
>
> I think I've answered all the questions from you as I care to.
> >
> > - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

Free books are wonderful but some like Taubes and other's of similar
import require me to write all over them. I can only recall 5% of what
I read on a good day.
On the other hand I have an extensive library that no looks at but me.
Rock and A hard place comes to mind. Wonder if my books are doomed to a
yard sale...perhaps giving them away to a library now is intelligent.
But who wants books from 1950 ?

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
globalvoicesonline.org

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:09 am
From: Billy

In article <b2forewagner-3A31E9.13003809082010@news.supernews.com>,
Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> wrote:

> In article
> <wildbilly-A3F71F.09415009082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:
>
> > If you had any sense, you would realize that these books are available
> > FREE from your local library.
> >
> > I think I've answered all the questions from you as I care to.
> > >
> > > - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
>
> Free books are wonderful but some like Taubes and other's of similar
> import require me to write all over them. I can only recall 5% of what
> I read on a good day.
> On the other hand I have an extensive library that no looks at but me.
> Rock and A hard place comes to mind. Wonder if my books are doomed to a
> yard sale...perhaps giving them away to a library now is intelligent.
> But who wants books from 1950 ?

Everything has a lifetime. Gotta get outta the way for the new or
everything would come to a stop.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/07/201072816515308172.html

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:48 am
From: Bill who putters

In article
<wildbilly-A405B6.10093109082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:

> In article <b2forewagner-3A31E9.13003809082010@news.supernews.com>,
> Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <wildbilly-A3F71F.09415009082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:
> >
> > > If you had any sense, you would realize that these books are available
> > > FREE from your local library.
> > >
> > > I think I've answered all the questions from you as I care to.
> > > >
> > > > - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
> >
> > Free books are wonderful but some like Taubes and other's of similar
> > import require me to write all over them. I can only recall 5% of what
> > I read on a good day.
> > On the other hand I have an extensive library that no looks at but me.
> > Rock and A hard place comes to mind. Wonder if my books are doomed to a
> > yard sale...perhaps giving them away to a library now is intelligent.
> > But who wants books from 1950 ?
>
> Everything has a lifetime. Gotta get outta the way for the new or
> everything would come to a stop.

Some old stuff resonates with value and potential for growth. I think
of traditional slash and burn and our interest in charcoal. Also
wonder if the old was side stepped as it was not a money maker.

Anyway. I do the short form here is the long. Old fart stuff usually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUQSQi5xFSM&NR=1

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
globalvoicesonline.org

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 12:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Billy wrote:
> In article <slrni5ut2d.fnu.don@manx.misty.com>,
> don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <wildbilly-6915B0.12330708082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>> Billy wrote in part:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <f96596d6-50fc-42af-ab4d-8089eb87d112@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Chris <chris.linthompson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 8, 1:23 pm, Bill who putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <b2forewagner-162A99.13113708082...@news.supernews.com>, Bill who
>>>>> putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <wildbilly-74E3AC.09590308082...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>>>>>> Billy <wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Anecdotally, I've been taking 1 g of vitamin C/day since the
>>>>>>> early 70s
>>>>>>> and 6 g/day if I have a cold (which is rare).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt there is any silver bullet for either colds, or cancer
>>>>>>> (The latter seems to be part of "metabolic syndrome". Staying
>>>>>>> away from polyunsaturated oils, would probably help.).
>>
>> I heard that the bad ones are saturated ones and ones with all
>> "unsaturations" (double bonds) being of "trans" alignment.
>>
>> That means the "bad ones" are coconut and palm oil, cocoa butter,
>> fats of warm blooded animals, and *partially hydrogenated*
>> polyunsaturated
>> fats (partially hydrogenated typically-extratropical vegetable oils).
>>
>> Unhydrogenated polyunsaturated fats have a high rate of sounding
>> to me to be "OK, or at least OK as far as fat intake goes".
>>
>> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
>
> Yes, this is the debate that Ansel Keys started with his claim that
> saturated fat causes cholesterol, which causes "cadiovascular
> disease". The problem appears when you understand that Ansel Keys
> cherry picked his information, Dwight Eisenhower died of a heart
> attack even though he was on a low fat diet, and that many healthy
> cultures survived on saturated fats, and none on polyunsatuated fats.

That last is a bare faced lie, most obviously with mediteranean cultures.

> The gist is that agriculture, eating grains (carbohydrates), is the
> biggest change in the human diet in the last 2,000,000 years, and
> most of the medical problems of western culture stem from insulin
> rushes caused by the sugar, refined, and in the starches of grains.

Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> The definitive book is "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and
> the Controversial Science of Diet and Health" (Vintage) by Gary Taubes
> <http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033
> 462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281329439&sr=1-1>

Just because someone claims something doesnt make it gospel.

> p. 15
> The incidence and severity atherosclerosis are not directly
> affected by the level of cholesterol in the blood serum per se.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> p. 96
> White flour's low protein, vitamins, and mineral content made it
> "less liable than whole meal flour to infestations by beetles and the
> depredations of rodents", as Sir Stanley Davidson and Reginald
> Passmore observed in their textbook Human Nutrition and Dietetics
> (1963).

Irrelevant to what is better human health wise.

> p.194
> Anything that raises blood sugar - in particular, the consumption
> of refined and easily digestible carbohydrates - will increase the
> generation of oxidants and free radicals;

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> it will increase the rate of oxidative stress and glycation,and the
> formation and accumulation of advanced glycation end products.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> This means that anything that raises blood sugar, by the logic of the carbohydrate
> hypothesis, will lead to more atherosclerosis and heart disease, more vascular disorders,
> and a pace of accelerated degeneration, even in those of us who never become diabetic.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> -----

> Much easier to read is
> "The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability" by Lierre Keith
> <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_19?url=search-alias%3Dstripbook
> s&field-keywords=the+vegetarian+myth+by+lierre+keith&sprefix=The+Vegetari
> an+Myth&ih=16_1_1_0_0_0_0_0_0_2.144_306&fsc=18>

Just because someone claims something doesnt make it gospel.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I GOT $2000 FROM PAYPAL .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2e95bf9d0a006a70?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 7:11 am
From: paypal cash

I GOT $2000 FROM PAYPAL At http://2050videos.co.cc

i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an image. in that website On
Top Side Above search box , click on image and enter your PayPal id
And Your name.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why people don't commute by bike?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a940e0b0554395e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 7:40 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 8, 9:07 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <3140c0b1-e525-469f-8254-8185b931a...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> His Highness TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> >> > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> >> > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> >> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus
> >> that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the
> >> road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> >Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> >1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> >enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> >cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> >car)
>
> I mostly cycle in the street. My bike commuting is 95-plus % in the
> street.
>
> >2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> >another job or move.
>
> I have lived and worked for about 3 years where I commuted mostly by
> bike for 8 miles each way.
>
> Since then, I moved and reduced my bike commute to about 4 miles each
> way.
>
> >3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> >maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> My current day job is delivering by bike. So was my previous day job.
> Both of which I commuted to mainly by bike.
> Includes summertime in Philadelphia, including that city's 2 hottest
> Julys and 2 hottest Junes and their hottest May, as well as their hottest
> 4 summers and one of 2 Philly summers tied for 5th place hottest, since
> 1873.
>
> >Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
> >"What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
> >fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"
>
> I have crashed my fair share of times, and I am thankful that I get
> exercise and drink lots of milk. Good-and-strong bones help. So does
> experience with gymnastics and wrestling in junior highschool gym classes,
> and having a boyfriend who often likes to "play rough" in bed.
>
> I lost only 1 workday in the past 25.5 years due to a bike crash, and
> that was not a commuting crash. This is my "disabling crash rate" even
> with the past winter being Philadelphia's snowiest in over 135 years, and
> the infamous ice storms that struck Philly in early 1994.
> (The worst one of which produced a lot of rain while the temperature was
> -3 to -3.5 C. My coat got crunchy with a crunchy ice coating. Icicles
> started forming at the rim of my helmet.)
>
> >A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
> >herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
> >SUV to be important, etc."
>
> And in response, I proudly ride a bike! Even occaisionally shouting,
> "Mahaha-hiya Give it to me one ti-ime now"! More often, I use my voice
> to have every bike that I ride being one that has a horn and a siren with
> every adjustability in pitch, timbre, tone and volume imaginable!
>
> Roughly 1/4 million plus miles by bike already, and Philadelphia's lousy
> drivers and occaisionally-severe weather have yet to kill me, or even get
> a bone fracture into my medical record!
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

Well, I think you deserve a Golden Medal for VALOR and PRIDE. I say
"pride" because valor comes from stupidity. The Germans who fought for
Hitler surely fought with valor, but I bet few felt pride in what they
did after the war.

Bicycling can also come from need, in which there's little pride.

I really believe that someday we should award medals for cycling.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:01 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 8, 9:21 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article
> <3140c0b1-e525-469f-8254-8185b931a...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>
>
>
> Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that
> > > number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road.
> > > There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > Ken
>
> > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > car)
>
> Two summers ago, I was assaulted in broad daylight while riding my bike
> across the Ben Franklin bridge that spans the Delaware River between
> Philadelphia and Camden. This is the only bridge sits between my
> apartment and my job unless I go way out of my way to ride my bike
> across a small bridge about 10 miles north of where I live. In addition,
> on the side of the Ben Franklin closest to where I live, there is no
> safe access from the route I have to take to its pedestrian pathway. The
> only way for me to get to the pedestrian area is to take a much longer
> route through a neighborhood that is one of the most dangerous in the
> United States or to ride on a major highway during rush hour, which is
> probably illegal and definitely unsafe. These are the two big deterrents
> for why I never ride my bike to work any more. I heard recently that one
> of some of President Obama's stimulus money will be used to extend a
> bike and jogging path that runs right by my apartment in NJ into
> Philadelphia without having to travel through dangerous areas to ride a
> bike or walk/run across the bridge. If that project comes to fruition
> and I am still living in this area, I will definitely ride my bike to
> work on days when the weather is nice.

I hope it doesn't become another fancy MIXED PATH that creates danger
to all. Their capacity to waste money in stupid design is
incredible. ;)

I have a CAUSEWAY nearby where I was attacked. It's actually traveled
by few cyclists despite its beauty overlooking the bay. That day --
with no traffic-- the police waved me to get the off the road across
the bridge; later a guy in an SUV blasted the horn at me --outside the
bridge-- I guess for taking the lane; and finally another guy blew the
horn and I gave him the finger...

I was riding to the right, coming home tired and disheartened, but I
forgot to read the sign that said 'WALK BICYCLE ACROSS BRIDGE' (some 3
blocks) for which there's a VERY NARROW sidewalk and the guy was
playing vigilante. It didn't come to blows (I had no chance with that
beast) but he spit in my face and left.

I have a saying though, "MY STRUGGLE IS NOT AGAINST THE PUPPET, BUT
AGAINST THE PUPPETEER," and the police department of that area and the
whole predatory driving system in America is responsible. The truth
shall be said, PEOPLE BUY SUV'S TO BE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:10 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 9, 7:13 am, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Cyclists that block a lane should be run over. Nothing worse than
> > > > some ass-wipe in gay spandex blocking a traffic lane. If you can't
> > > > pedal at least 45 mph get off the road. If there is no bike lane than
> > > > the road is for motor vehicles only. Move to China.
> > > Right on! Why should a motorist slow down for anything? Those
> > > pedestrians stepping off the curb? They expect you to yield?
>
> > > Target practice!
> > Don't try to be clever. We are not talking about pedestrians. Try to
> > stay focused.
>
> What's different about pedestrians? They're just like cyclists and
> they get in the way!
>
> Gun that motor!

"Pedestrian" can mean "Undistinguished; ordinary"...

In which case they have little value before the "distinguished,
extraordinary drivers" (la creme de la creme) who invest their "hard
earned money" in cars and SUVs, the bigger the better.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:23 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

This is how "moderated bicycle groups" (aka censored) solve the
problem we have with cycling...

http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/browse_thread/thread/e69ad85d4dd57eec/0679f7cdf7c070d0?hl=en&

The same for "Bike Forums" and the Florida Bicycle Association
(offending God worshipers in a Religious/Political forum and offending
the Republican respectively).

The American Taliban work by self-censorship so the bubble (democracy)
doesn't pop.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:42 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 8, 5:30 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:36:04 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:53 am, edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 8, 2:48 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>
> >> > On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:31:04 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> >> > Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
> >> > > On Aug 8, 11:13 am, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> >> > >> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:49:21 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> >> > >> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
> >> > >> > A couple of days ago, my good but unintelligent neighbor got mad when
> >> > >> > I told him of my campaign to TAKE THE LANE.
>
> >> > >> Not a problem. If you TAKE THE LANE like one lame-brain did on a blind
> >> > >> corner, there will be one less bicyclist on the road as well.
>
> >> > > Wrong. When you take the lane you are more visible around blind
> >> > > curves.
>
> >> > This girl wasn't. Good thing I have good brakes. Judging from the size of
> >> > the brown stain I bet she won't be "asserting her rights" again
>
> >> > Is poop easily removed from Spandex?
>
> >> Good one!
>
> > He's in the Most Wanted list for killing cyclists in 5 states.
>
> I have never killed a cyclist.
>
> Made a few think about "Taking back the road", however.

Jaywalking and reckless cyclists are a problem, but shouldn't be
addressed by terrorizing all pedestrians and cyclists.

You sure you are not in the Most Wanted?

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:32 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 9, 9:32 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> In message
> <a1c89d11-2bf8-41ba-8ee2-a875b1d3d...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, at
> 09:22:54 on Mon, 9 Aug 2010, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of
> the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> remarked:

> >Some .4% of Americans do compared to some 30% in the Netherlands.

> >Something is missing, right?

> Indeed it is. The main missing thing there is an appreciation of the
> different (physical and social) geography of the two countries.
> --
> Roland Perry

As well as the different consumption patterns and the role of TV in
selling SUVs as the ultimate solution to status, sprawl and "safety."

But the spread out geography doesn't help the gigantic traffic jams in
and around our cities.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:42 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > Ken
>
> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> car)
>
> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> another job or move.
>
> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> maybe you sweat at work anyway.

You forgot one:

4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 11:03 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <066ba46e-6aaa-4b43-84a4-55cf01b2c7c7@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>You forgot one:
>
>4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

I rode through about 90% of the snow that the Philadelphia area got last
winter. That was Philly's snowiest winter on record since official
recordkeeping started in 1873. I ride through slush. I ride through
cold, even Philadelphia's coldest day since I started delivering by bike
in early 1985. I even rode through all of the ice storms that befell the
Philly area in early 1994.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 11:05 am
From: Simon Lewis

don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) writes:

> In <066ba46e-6aaa-4b43-84a4-55cf01b2c7c7@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>You forgot one:
>>
>>4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> I rode through about 90% of the snow that the Philadelphia area got last
> winter. That was Philly's snowiest winter on record since official
> recordkeeping started in 1873. I ride through slush. I ride through
> cold, even Philadelphia's coldest day since I started delivering by bike
> in early 1985. I even rode through all of the ice storms that befell the
> Philly area in early 1994.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

That's nice. Do you know Bill Baka?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: pretty girls hot videos&photos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b999976092159e71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 9:05 am
From: guru datta

AMISHAPATEL HOT BOOBS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/07/amishpatel-latest-photos.html

ARCHANA UNSEENED EXPOSING PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/07/archana-unseened-photos.html

KATRINA KAIF HOT SEXY PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/07/katrina-sexy-looking-photos.html

THISHA HOT WET PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/thrisha-hot-wet-photos.html

SEXY CHARMI IN A BATHROOM

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/charmi-in-bath.html

KAJALAGARWAL IN A ROMANTIC FEEL