Frugal Living: Jan 20, 2008

Sunday, January 20, 2008

24 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It happened! My pipes froze, they burst today, and my entire bathroom
was FLOODED!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3cfa54c711f046f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:14 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:46:28 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>Your problem is that you have a gmail account.
>
>First, it is "plumber," not plummer. Plumb, from the latin "plumb" for
>lead, which is what plumbers used to use.
>
>Secondly, the dripping faucet routine doesn't work. You have to have
>a certain amount of heat in the water for it to work. Get electric
>heat tape to place alongside your pipes, then get some foam pipe
>insulation to cover the pipe and tape.
>
>Third, it ain't bursted. A pipe bursts. The past tense is also burst.
>
>Yeah, I had some frozen pipes last freeze. I covered them with mulch,
>after putting heat tape in the most vulnerable spots.

Thank you for flaming the wrong guy while we try to help someone that
has a problem. It's people like you that makes humanity proud.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:53 pm
From: Bernardo Gui

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:05:22 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
wrote:

>Thanks buddy for the grammar lesson. Just what you want to hear when
>your place is under water.
>
>It is exactly the time in which a person has time to work on typos and
>grammar. Home under water - but grammar is perfect and all typos
>erradicated!
>
>Thanks for being so realistic.
>
>Gene

Well, that was a little rude, but it would have been easier on other
people if you had paid attention in third grade English class.

My question is more about choosing the right newsgroup in which to
post your cry for help. Don't you think that alt.home.repair would
have been a better choice than a group on Frugal Living?

Bernardo

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:50 pm
From: swler@live.com

On Jan 21, 1:14 am, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:46:28 -0500, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >Your problem is that you have a gmail account.
>
> >First, it is "plumber," not plummer. Plumb, from the latin "plumb" for
> >lead, which is what plumbers used to use.
>
> >Secondly, the dripping faucet routine doesn't work. You have to have
> >a certain amount of heat in the water for it to work. Get electric
> >heat tape to place alongside your pipes, then get some foam pipe
> >insulation to cover the pipe and tape.
>
> >Third, it ain't bursted. A pipe bursts. The past tense is also burst.
>
> >Yeah, I had some frozen pipes last freeze. I covered them with mulch,
> >after putting heat tape in the most vulnerable spots.
>
> Thank you for flaming the wrong guy while we try to help someone that
> has a problem. It's people like you that makes humanity proud.

This is why there are days I wonder if an major outbreak of H5N1 would
really
be that bad. Yes, several to many million people would die, but maybe
the
human race needs a good flush. Somehow I expect people like Mr Grammar
would be in deep dodo. They almost certainly don't have many friends
to help,
and I really doubt if he has the financial assets of the "Blessed Tim
May".

Although given the choice between massive amounts of money coupled
with
Tim's somewhat unorthodox world view and my present financial
situation
with the friends that I have. When it gets grim, you will need more
then
money and grammar to pull through the tough stuff.

I can just hear him at the dispatch end of a 911 call, some poor sod
calls
and gets a unwanted leason in the finer points in English Grammar
while
his desperate need for help gets ignored.

Terry

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:12 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:50:56 -0800 (PST), swler@live.com wrote:

>On Jan 21, 1:14 am, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:46:28 -0500, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >Your problem is that you have a gmail account.

This from a guy with a hotmail account.

>> Thank you for flaming the wrong guy while we try to help someone that
>> has a problem. It's people like you that makes humanity proud.
>
>This is why there are days I wonder if an major outbreak of H5N1 would
>really
>be that bad. Yes, several to many million people would die, but maybe
>the
>human race needs a good flush. Somehow I expect people like Mr Grammar
>would be in deep dodo. They almost certainly don't have many friends
>to help,
>and I really doubt if he has the financial assets of the "Blessed Tim
>May".

You have to wonder what it says about his parents and his upbringing.
The best reflection on them would be if they abandoned him at an
orphanage they knew was run by sadists. If they raised him
themselves, the whole family should be shipped off to the food tanks.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:33 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:14:12 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:46:28 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>Your problem is that you have a gmail account.
>>
>>First, it is "plumber," not plummer. Plumb, from the latin "plumb" for
>>lead, which is what plumbers used to use.
>>
>>Secondly, the dripping faucet routine doesn't work. You have to have
>>a certain amount of heat in the water for it to work. Get electric
>>heat tape to place alongside your pipes, then get some foam pipe
>>insulation to cover the pipe and tape.
>>
>>Third, it ain't bursted. A pipe bursts. The past tense is also burst.
>>
>>Yeah, I had some frozen pipes last freeze. I covered them with mulch,
>>after putting heat tape in the most vulnerable spots.
>
>Thank you for flaming the wrong guy while we try to help someone that
>has a problem. It's people like you that makes humanity proud.

Stuff it. You know I was talking to gene, not you. The advice I gave
is from experience, not armchair usenet whinging and second guessing.
My grandfather was a professional plumber and it happens to irritate
me when dumbasses can't spell it right. And gene does have an email
account, which in this group classifies him with the spammers and shoe
salesmen.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:48 pm
From: "none2u"

"Jerry" <Jerry@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:4793e948.25042895@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>>How I hate that.
>>
>>I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
>>water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
>>opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
>>warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>>
>>I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>>
>>I shut the main water valve off.
>>
>>Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
>>water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
>>open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>>
>>Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
>>off every day?
>>
>>What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
>>Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
>>freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
>>and again, till it is finally spring.
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Gene
>
> I guess you forgot to light the straw, no wonder the pipes got cold.:)
>
> If you are going to shut off the main every day then let your water
> run a little bit when you turn it back on before drinking it, it will
> appear dirty at first. Make sure you turn off your water heater so
> that it doesn't keep running without water coming in, you will destroy
> the heater and possibly start your house on fire.
> >>> Shutting off the main is fine. Like a poster said. You can get crud
> that comes from the inside of the pipes when you turn it back on. Its held
> in there from water pressure. I myself would not drain my water heater.
> Because I have a sink low point to drain water from. I,d leave the water
> in there , and the heater running like normal. It may sit there all night
> and not even run. Then I,d have hot water in the morning. Shutting off any
> water valves sometimes makes them leak because they are old. If it leaks a
> little , and it is open all the way. Retighten the packing nut as
> necessary. Now. if you drain your water heater, shut the gas off. The
> elements / or temp sensors need water on them to not burn up. I doubt you
> will cause a fire. But you could cause your pressure relief to pop , and
> dump water if you have your plumbing lines closed and it makes steam. Its
> not particularly good on the heater too if its rusted or old . It may
> start to leak and need replaced. You like everyone else who has crawl
> spaces have a similar problem. Previous poster suggested heat trace. It is
> an excellent idea. I suggest heat trace inside the fiberglass or foam pipe
> wrap insulation. Along with your straw and your space heater. I'm thinking
> if you heat trace the pipes and wrap it with pipe wrap insulation. And
> tape the insulation seams CORRECTLY.You could drop the space heater and
> save some electricity cost. If money is an issue. Unless you are using
> the space heater to heat your floors. The heat trace can be unplugged when
> its above freezing . Also letting the water drip is not ok. Unless you let
> more water run. { Cost issues again}I suggest letting it turn into a
> solid run. Heat traces last long time. Like Asian chicks. That should do
> it.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:50 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:33:18 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>Stuff it. You know I was talking to gene, not you. The advice I gave
>is from experience, not armchair usenet whinging and second guessing.
>My grandfather was a professional plumber and it happens to irritate
>me when dumbasses can't spell it right. And gene does have an email
>account, which in this group classifies him with the spammers and shoe
>salesmen.

I suspect most of us have email accounts.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:57 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:33:18 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>Stuff it. You know I was talking to gene, not you. The advice I gave
>>is from experience, not armchair usenet whinging and second guessing.
>>My grandfather was a professional plumber and it happens to irritate
>>me when dumbasses can't spell it right. And gene does have an email
>>account, which in this group classifies him with the spammers and shoe
>>salesmen.
>
>I suspect most of us have email accounts.

Sort of pisses me off. My granddad had an email account too, I don't
like people insulting his memory. I'm gonna let this slide, but the
pea should watch his step.

--Vic

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 8:16 pm
From: GeneCook2008@gmail.com

On Jan 20, 9:50 pm, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:33:18 -0500, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >Stuff it. You know I was talking to gene, not you.

Next time write "Gene" with a capital "G". It is a name and not genes,
Hickey or Chickey.

> > The advice I gave
> >is from experience, not armchair usenet whinging

It is whining and not whinging. You are a hypocrite. You can't spell
yourself.

> > and second guessing.
> >My grandfather was a professional plumber and it happens to irritate
> >me when dumbasses can't spell it right.

You missed a comma after plumber + and.

I might make typos in a hurry but my second language is better than
your first.

> >And gene does have an email
> >account, which in this group classifies him with the spammers and shoe
> >salesmen.

What is that supposed to be? I just posted this one posting and didn't
try to sell a thing.
>
> I suspect most of us have email accounts.

The reason I posted here because of an emergency. I figured that some
of you guys would know an advice.

Winston Smith apparently understood that. He provided some useful
advice of the problem.

My first language is NOT English. If I would have written that in my
native language Danish, I would have made no mistake.

But as most of your guys will not speak my language, I posted in
yours.

You really don't mean how it feels to have an emergency and having to
express something in a hurry in another language about a subject you
are not an expert in.

Thanks Winston, for your advice. Thanks to anybody else for any
advice.

As for the rest of you, I will not more come back in this newsgroup.

I might not be a master of the English language, but I am better than
you. I might really need some plumbing education, but I do not need
education as far as manners and character is concerned. That is where
you guys need LOTS and LOTS of education.

Good bye. You are indeed the people who make the Internet so a hateful
and unprofessional place.

I pity you.

Gene

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 8:19 pm
From: Myal

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:33:18 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Stuff it. You know I was talking to gene, not you. The advice I gave
>>> is from experience, not armchair usenet whinging and second guessing.
>>> My grandfather was a professional plumber and it happens to irritate
>>> me when dumbasses can't spell it right. And gene does have an email
>>> account, which in this group classifies him with the spammers and shoe
>>> salesmen.
>> I suspect most of us have email accounts.
>
>
> Sort of pisses me off. My granddad had an email account too, I don't
> like people insulting his memory. I'm gonna let this slide, but the
> pea should watch his step.
>
> --Vic

you are such a man

your grandpop was a plumber , so was and so are a hell of a lot of other
folk ...

and you decided to let it slide that someone mis-spelled plummer ...

WHOOOO HOOOO I never seen such a manly gesture in all my life before

what WERE you going to do to him tho , for his spelling mistake hmmm ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best cheap LED flashlight single AA
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/289e1ab2c0f56d4c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:10 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Netsearch for "Infinity CMG" if memory serves. They make a LED light, single
LED and takes one AA cell. Also, a couple years ago I got a couple lights
with 12 LED, runs on a single AA cell. Runs about three hours.

What's odd -- the single LED Dorcy on single AAA runs about three hours, and
the 12 LED light from ebay runs about three hours. They are nearly equal
light output. Wish I'd known, I would have bought the Walmart ones. Lighter,
and much easier to carry.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:13orav9ikikdp14@corp.supernews.com...

I've never seen the AA model. How they get it to run on one cell amazes
me. Where'd you get your AA model? Although I love the small size and
design of the AAA, they are in aluminum housings available in different
colors, a AA should have 2 1/2 times the capacity.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CONGRATULATIONS, ALL VIEWING THIS POST HAVE BEEN SELECTED.......
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee1f26eb1db9c455?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:11 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I was hoping for Viagra without a prescription.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:Spvkj.6625$M24.1780@newsfe17.lga...

Cool. Out of millions of people, I was selected. I'm thrilled.

Do you have any cheap shoes or knock-off watches?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: $8,000 Later - 5 Steps To Financial Freedom
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b53e6d66e321d69c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:06 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I'd be so heartbroken!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:RrIjj.33379$Ft5.2051@newsfe15.lga...
Al Bundy wrote:

>On Jan 15, 4:32 pm, "ThomasConsultin...@gmail.com"
><ThomasConsultin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>If I died tomorrow, I would want you to know this.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Warmest Regards and Win eM All
>>
>>
>What if you died yesterday instead?
>
>
>
Then you wouldn't have recieved his spam and you'd be cold by now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Soldering eyeglass Frames
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ffd45cd171f652d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:57 pm
From: Marsha

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:fmvp8i$rkl$2@news.datemas.de...
.>>When my mother's frames broke, the first shop we went to said they
didn't
>>have frames to fit her lenses, but they could do both frames and lenses.
>>When I said we go someplace else, it was amazing how fast they found a
>>pair of frames that fit.
>>
>>Marsha/Ohio
>
>
> There are too many factors to be able to argue the point. For instance, if
> the lens is small, and it's a bifocal prescription, trimming it might remove
> too much of one of the focal "zones". It all depends....
>

I understand that it's not easy to fit frames on lenses, but just the
fact that they said they didn't have frames to fit, without even
looking, and then miraculously finding them AFTER we said we going
elsewhere was a little suspicious to me.

Marsha/Ohio

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:31 pm
From: Richard J Kinch

Edwin Pawlowski writes:

> Have you priced prescription glasses recently?

Yep. Get them mailed here from offshore places like

http://www.zennioptical.com/ where they do a first-class job.

You're a sucker to pay the hometown optician racket any more.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:33 pm
From: Richard J Kinch

Ivan Vegvary writes:

> Fortunately, I need only reading glasses and have never paid more than 3
> pairs for $19.95!

Huh. I never pay more than $1/each at the dollar store.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:27 pm
From: "John Keiser"

When the thin tubual metal temples broke on my [Zenni Optical] glasses,
squeezed the ends into a short length of insulation from 12 gauge wire.
Worked well for many months and didn't look too bad. Eventually Zenni sent
a replacement.
--
Remove -NOSPAM- to contact me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boo-hoo for bloodsucking retailers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/81b94728ed0f8519?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some stupid pig ignorant racecourse bum claiming to be
William Souden <souden@nospam.com> desperately
attempted to bullshit its way out of its predicament
and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

No surprise that its a racecourse bum.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 8:54 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Jeff wrote:
> A lot of people don't understand just how rotten the underpinnings of
> the economy have become.
>
> The value of the dollar has fallen by nearly half in the last 7
> years. The credit markets are a mess, no one knows the amount of risk in
> the debt. And the economy is kept sputtering along by cheap money and debt.
>
> The DJIA closed at 12,100 friday and when "W"onder President was
> inaugurated it was 10,700. 1 1/2 % a year, and that is the group that
> has gotten the top deal.

I'm not fond of the current US President. I voted for the other guy
both times. And I think that GW has done a lot damage, possibly
permanent damage, to the Bill of Rights.

But let's not lose sight of the relevant facts. When Bush took
office, possibly the biggest stock market bubble in US history
was bursting. Stocks had been falling like a lead balloon for
quite some time before he was even elected. And the rate at which
they fell was getting worse and worse as time went on.

Go take a look at this historical chart of the S&P 500:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EGSPC&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=

The overall shape you're going to see is a relatively smooth,
straight line going gradually upwards. Starting in about 1985,
the market just goes steadily up. Then in 1995, it veers off
course and the value goes up like crazy. Then it drops, and
eventually the correction finishes in about 2003. At that point,
it resumes following the exact same line that it had followed
before that.

My point is that you're comparing a point near the peak of the
Internet boom with a point that fits in much better with the
longer term picture. Sure, right now there is a lot of worry,
and the economy has problems, but when you take a wider view
(literally -- when you scale the graph out to show more years),
it looks like the point we're at now is less of an outlier than
when Bush took office.

So yeah, maybe the market only went up 1.5% per year during the
time Bush was in office. But maybe that was the *right* *amount*
for it to have gone up in that time considering how over-inflated
it was when he got there.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where housing still booms big
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f09168e152e219c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:42 pm
From: Snowbound

While Bush and his Republican cronies blithely turn the U.S. into a
third world nation with a third-rate economy, Mexico's housing market is
booming like never before. So much so, that giant investors like
CalPERS, the huge California Public Employees Retirement System, is
funding over $300 million in new construction projects there.

The change is so pronounced and so massive with ever-greater numbers of
middle-income Mexicans buying their own homes, that while U.S. political
and economic factions bicker and spar spitefully, Mexico is leading
latin America in increased economic stability and becoming a haven for
investors seeking escape from the declining U.S. economy.

Housing starts and loans are reaching record levels in Mexico, opening
lucrative jobs once reserved for illegal immigrants in the United
States. Thus, this could signal a slowdown or even a reversal in the
flow of immigrants from Mexico seeking ill-paid work and receiving
racist-propelled hatred in El Norte. After all, why mow lawns for
peanuts and get spit upon in a foreign land when you can earn carpenter
wages in your own nation?

It's been said quite truthfully that the best revenge is living well.
The Mexicans seem well on their way toward proving that point.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 7:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Snowbound <loosebowels@ixnay.invalid> wrote:

> While Bush and his Republican cronies blithely turn the U.S. into a third world nation

You wouldnt know what a real third world country was if it bit you on your lard arse.

> with a third-rate economy,

You wouldnt know what a real third-rate economy was if it bit you on your lard arse.

> Mexico's housing market is booming like never before.

You're always welcome to fuck off there any time you like if it wasnt for your criminal record.

> So much so, that giant investors like CalPERS, the huge
> California Public Employees Retirement System, is funding
> over $300 million in new construction projects there.

Thats peanuts.

> The change is so pronounced and so massive with ever-greater
> numbers of middle-income Mexicans buying their own homes,

Same thing is happening in every country, stupid.

> that while U.S. political and economic factions bicker and spar spitefully,
> Mexico is leading latin America in increased economic stability

Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> and becoming a haven for investors seeking
> escape from the declining U.S. economy.

And Mexico will suffer when the US economy slows, you watch.

> Housing starts and loans are reaching record levels in Mexico,
> opening lucrative jobs once reserved for illegal immigrants in the
> United States. Thus, this could signal a slowdown or even a
> reversal in the flow of immigrants from Mexico seeking ill-paid work

Bet it wont. They breed like flys, stupid.

> and receiving racist-propelled hatred in El Norte. After all,
> why mow lawns for peanuts and get spit upon in a foreign
> land when you can earn carpenter wages in your own nation?

Because fuck all of them can do that, stupid.

> It's been said quite truthfully that the best revenge is living well.
> The Mexicans seem well on their way toward proving that point.

Nope, you watch.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: About Kerala
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a12619a76355b28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:49 pm
From: Jayu

Hi,
I have created a web page describing the people and life of Kerala.
Please feel free to visit this at www.101malayalamhits.com .
Thanks and regards,
Jayu

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 6:57 pm
From: Snowbound

In article <HVJkj.7164$k15.6659@trnddc06>,
"Bill DeFranzo" <defranzo@verizon.net> wrote:

> Isn't this how ancient Rome balanced its books or raised money for war? They
> simply taxed the rich land owners. In some cases killing them and
> confiscating their wealth outright.

I think you are mistaking ancient Rome for the Pol Pot regime, Castro's
Cuba or Stalin's USSR. Or perhaps you wish to compare ancient Rome with
these regimes?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Los Angeles Movers California Moving Company
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/447ca37663afc14a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 8:20 pm
From: linkswanted

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Packing

You have many options when it comes to packing ... you can do it
yourself or let World Moving & Storage' professional packers give you
a hand. Or, create a customized plan where you start the process and
we help with the fragile items. Here are some choices:

Full Service Packing: You can supervise ... but we'll do the work. We'll
pack everything in your household, big and small.
Fragile Only Packing: We've spent years perfecting our packing
techniques, so you might consider letting us protect your fragile
items. We can create a custom packing plan based on these items.
Self Pack: For the do-it-yourselfer, you take the lead on all the
packing ... but we can still provide a helping hand. We have lots of
packing tips we can share with you and can arrange for all the packing
materials you'll need.

Packing Materials

Your possessions come in a variety of unique shapes and weights.
That's why World Moving & Storage has a wide variety of specialty
materials to pack them in.

Standard boxes from 1.5 to 6 cubic feet
Wardrobe boxes
Mirror boxes: Extra protection for moving mirrors, pictures, and glass
tabletops
Mattress boxes in all sizes
Dishpack barrels: Sturdy packaging for moving your china and dishware,
including built-in dividers for extra protection.
Stretchwrap for furniture, to protect it from snags, tears, and dirt.

Loading and Unloading

Moving your valuables out of your previous home and into your new home
can be tricky. Luckily, we're prepared for it.

Disassembly/Assembly: From entertainment centers to beds to swing
sets, just tell us what needs to be disassembled and moved with you.
We'll even put it back together again at your destination.
Residence Protection Pads: Protect the railings, tight corners, and
doors.
Carpet Covers: Keep high traffic areas clean while moving.
Systematic Loading: Boxes are labeled and inventoried based on rooms
and your needs upon arrival.
Systematic Unloading: We move your belongings into the rooms you want
them in, just point the way.
Unpacking: Say the word and we'll take care of it.
Debris Removal: Our movers can take away all the empty containers
after unpacking.

Storage

Not moving into your home right away? We can provide moving storage
for you in a climate-controlled environment at a reasonable price.

Installation & Assembly Services

We can arrange for appliances to be connected, hot tubs to be
assembled, or additional cleaning services.

Pricing With No Surprises

We can help take the guesswork out of how much your move will cost by
providing a written estimate, for all services pertaining to your
shipment. Ask your Relocation Specialist about the best option for
you.

Bottom Line Pricing: Your total charge guaranteed price, based on your
estimate.
Not-To-Exceed Pricing: Your cost could come under the estimate, but
will not go beyond it.
Customized Pricing: A combination of guaranteed and separate service
costs is also available.
For moves in the United States we accept most major credit cards visa
mastercard, allowing you to use all the moving services you'll need.

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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 12:30 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

UNITED STATES
17 STRUGGLES FOR FREEDOM
18 PERILS AND REMEDIES

CHAPTER 1.

THE EARLY DAYS OF HONG KONG.

Time was when so-called Christian civilization seemed able to send its
vices abroad and keep its virtues at home. When men went by long
sea voyages to the far East in sailing vessels, in the interests of
conquest or commerce, and fell victims to their environments and weak
wills, far removed from the restraints of religious influences, and
from the possibility of exposure and disgrace in wrongdoing, they
lived with the prospect before them, not always unfulfilled, of
returning to home and to virtue to die.

That day has passed forever. With the invention of steam as a
locomotive power of great velocity, with the introduction of the
cable, and later, the wireless telegraphy; with the mastery of these
natural forces and their introduction in every part of the world, we
see the old world being drawn nearer and nearer to us by ten thousand
invisible cords of commercial interests, until shortly, probably
within the lifetime of you and me, the once worn out and almost
stranded wreck will be found quickened with new life and moored
alongside us. The Orient is already feeling the thrill of renewed
life. It is responding to the touch of the youth and vigor of the
West and becoming rejuvenated; it is drawing closer and close

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 2:17 pm
From: "Green Xenon [Radium]"

relations of kindred and friendship all up and down the Canton
river, and the business of the preparation of slave girls for the
foreigners and for foreign markets (as the trade expanded) gradually
extended backwards up the Canton river, until many of its boats were
almost given over to it. "Flower-boats" were probably never unknown to
this river, but, besides their use as brothels, they became stocked
with little girls under training for vice, under the incitement of an
ever-growing slave trade. These little girls were bought, stolen or
enticed from the mainland by these river people, to swell the number
of their own children destined to the infamous slave trade. Chinese
law forbids this kind of slavery, but, as we have seen, the Tanka
people were sort of outlaws, the river life facilitated such a
business, and Hong Kong was near at hand.

In later years Dr. Eitel, Chinese interpreter to the Governor, stated:

"Almost every so-called 'protected woman,' i.e. kept mistress of
foreigners here, belongs to the Tanka tribe, looked down upon and kept
at a distance by all the other Chinese classes. It is among these
Tanka women, and especially under the protection of these 'protected'
Tanka women, that private prostitution and the sale of girls for
concubinage flourishes, being looked upon as a legitimate profession.
Consequently, almost every 'protected woman' keeps a nursery of
purchased children or a few servant girls who are being reared with
a view to their eventual disposal, according to their personal
qualifications, either among foreigners here as kept women, or among
Chinese residents as their concubines, or to be sold for export to
Singapore, San Francisco, or Australia. Those 'protected women,'
more

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 11:07 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

bought and sold, aged 11 years, is a very intelligent
child, and described the negotiations for her sale with great
clearness."

The Chief Justice then went on to repeat the little girl's testimony
as to these "brokers of mankind," and the child's knowledge, from
personal observation of these purchases and sales, to which he adds:

"Let me here ask, Is the trade, or rather profession, 'broker of
mankind,' also a sacred China custom? I will not ask the queries
which would naturally arise in case the question were answered in
the affirmative. At present, however, I must say that, custom
or no custom, the practice of this profession is prohibited by
statute, and it is my duty to meet its exercise by punishment."

The prisoner was sentenced to two years' penal servitude. The Chief
Justice concluded his remarks on that occasion by replying to the
statements made in the Chinese petition.

He called attention to the Chinese resting their claim on the
temporary promise of Governor Elliott in 1841; of the fact that
they ignored the proclamation of the Queen in 1845. He said that
infanticide was also a Chinese custom in the same sense that slavery
was, on the words of the petition:

"Amongst the Chinese there has hitherto been the custom of
drowning their daughters. The Chinese threaten the increase of
this 'custom' of drowning children if their sale is put down....
I can only say that in case father, mother, or relative were
convicted of infanticide, Chinese custom would be no protection,
and, unless I am grievously mistaken, the presiding judge would
have no alternative but to sentence the perpetrator to death ...
the one custom is tolerated just as the other custom is tolerated,
and both alike or neither must be claimed as sanctioned

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 11:22 am
From: "Joel Olson"

lest He say to us: "Ye have not hearkened unto Me, in proclaiming
liberty, everyone to his brother, and every man to his neighbor;
behold, I proclaim a liberty unto you, saith the Lord, to the sword
and to the pestilence and to the famine."

From the first days of the enactment of this measure, and all the way
through until 1877, the inspectors of brothels had standing orders to
enter any native house that they suspected of containing any women
of loose character, and arrest its inmates in accordance with the
following plan: The inspector would secure an accomplice, called an
informer, or often more than one. The accomplice would enter a native
house plentifully supplied with marked money out of the Secret Service
Fund. This accomplice was often a friend or relative of the family he
called upon. He would often offer them a feast and drinks, and send
to a near-by restaurant and procure them at Government expense. After
feasting and drinking, he would try to induce some woman of the house
to consort with him, showing her a sufficient sum of money to fairly
dazzle her eyes. This he could well afford to do, for the Government
put the money in his hands to offer, and if the woman accepted, it
would not be a loss to the Government, for it would be taken back
again afterwards. Perhaps some poor half-starved creature would yield
to the tempter; perhaps some heathen man would press his wife to
accept the offer, in his greed for the money; perhaps some foolish
young girl would think she had suddenly come into great fortune in
having a man of such great wealth proposing marriage to her. It must
not be forgotten that the poorest people in China often marry in
a manner which is _almost devoid of all ceremony_, and yet it is
considered perfectly right and honorable, and the couple remain
faithful to each other afterwards. It is not unlikely, then, a young
wom

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 11:56 am
From: TomAldrich@newshosting.com

's view that laws securing the
freedom of the women were to be executed, whatever the result to the
brothel system. He wrote in reply as though Sir John Smale had said
many things that had not been put in the same light, demanded to know
what law could be put into operation to improve conditions, and wished
to know if Sir John Smale accepted Dr. Eitel's views on "domestic
servitude," and later he wrote pronouncing the views expressed in the
insolent attack of Mr. O'Malley upon Sir John Smale's anti-slavery
pronouncements as "well considered and convincing." He also referred
to the "humane intentions" of Mr. Labouchere in the passing of the
Contagious Diseases Ordinance of Sir John Bowring's time, which "were
intended to ameliorate the condition of the women." But it does not so
much concern us what the officials in London did and said, excepting
at the one point, namely, that they did not at this time back the
noble efforts of the Governor and of Sir John Smale to put down
slavery, and so rendered it practically impossible for them to
accomplish what they wished to do. The replies from Sir John Smale
are, however, of much value to us, as throwing light upon social
conditions at Hong Kong. On August 26, 1880, Sir John Smale replied in
a letter meant for the Secretary of State at London, but sent in due
form to the Colonial Secretary at Hong Kong for forwarding:

"My observations in Court arose out of cases of kidnaping;
and, according to the practices of judges in England, in their
addresses to the Grand Juries, and on sentencin

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 12:54 pm
From: "Green Xenon [Radium]"

example should
be a warning to the fact that even the most religious men can too
often hold very different views of life according to whether they are
embodied in religious sentiments or in one's politics. But nowhere are
right moral conceptions more needed (not in hymn-book nor in church),
as in the enactments by which one's fellow-beings are governed. Other
religious men not so conspicuous as Sir John Bowring, but of more
enlightened days than his, have died and left on earth a testimony to
strangely divergent views and principles, according to whether they
were crystallized in religious sentiments, or in the laws of the land,
and according to whether they legislated for men or for women.

On May 2nd, 1856, Sir John Bowring, Governor of Hong Kong, wrote to
the Secretary of State for the Colonies at London submitting a draft
of an Ordinance which was desired at Hong Kong because of certain
conditions prevailing at Hong Kong which were described in the
enclosures in his despatch. Mr. Labouchere, the Secretary of State for
the Colonies at the time, replied to the Governor's representations
in the following language: "The Colonial Government has not, I think,
attached sufficient weight to the very grave fact that in a British
Colony large numbers of women should be held in practical slavery for
the purpos

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:15 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
wrote:

Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.

>Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
>water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
>open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>
>Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
>off every day?
>
>What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
>Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
>freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
>and again, till it is finally spring.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Gene

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:56 pm
From: GeneCook2008@gmail.com

On Jan 20, 5:15 pm, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >How I hate that.
>
> >I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
> >water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
> >opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
> >warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>
> >I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>
> >I shut the main water valve off.
>
> Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.
>
> >Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
> >water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
> >open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>
> >Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
> >off every day?
>
> >What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
> >Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
> >freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
> >and again, till it is finally spring.
>
> >What do you think?
>
> >Gene

I am afraid I don't understand. Why should I turn the hot water heater
off? I have gas.

Gene

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:17 pm
From: clams_casino

GeneCook2008@gmail.com wrote:

>
>
>I am afraid I don't understand. Why should I turn the hot water heater
>off? I have gas.
>
>Gene
>
>

Try Beano.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:38 pm
From: Jerry@127.0.0.1 (Jerry)

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
wrote:

>How I hate that.
>
>I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
>water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
>opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
>warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>
>I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>
>I shut the main water valve off.
>
>Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
>water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
>open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>
>Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
>off every day?
>
>What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
>Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
>freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
>and again, till it is finally spring.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Gene

I guess you forgot to light the straw, no wonder the pipes got cold.:)

If you are going to shut off the main every day then let your water
run a little bit when you turn it back on before drinking it, it will
appear dirty at first. Make sure you turn off your water heater so
that it doesn't keep running without water coming in, you will destroy
the heater and possibly start your house on fire.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:38 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:56:39 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
wrote:

>On Jan 20, 5:15 pm, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >How I hate that.
>>
>> >I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
>> >water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
>> >opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
>> >warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>>
>> >I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>>
>> >I shut the main water valve off.
>>
>> Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.
>>
>> >Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
>> >water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
>> >open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>>
>> >Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
>> >off every day?
>>
>> >What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
>> >Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
>> >freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
>> >and again, till it is finally spring.
>>
>> >What do you think?
>>
>> >Gene
>
>I am afraid I don't understand. Why should I turn the hot water heater
>off? I have gas.
>
>Gene

You count on the water to conduct the heat away from the heater/burner
and to the thermostat. If the tank runs low on water, the thermostat
can read can't see that the heater/burner is running with nothing to
heat. The water is the heat sink that conducts heat from the heater
and keeps it at a reasonable temperature. If it's not there the
heater/burner it will overheat and could be a fire hazard.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:46 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

Your problem is that you have a gmail account.

First, it is "plumber," not plummer. Plumb, from the latin "plumb" for
lead, which is what plumbers used to use.

Secondly, the dripping faucet routine doesn't work. You have to have
a certain amount of heat in the water for it to work. Get electric
heat tape to place alongside your pipes, then get some foam pipe
insulation to cover the pipe and tape.

Third, it ain't bursted. A pipe bursts. The past tense is also burst.

Yeah, I had some frozen pipes last freeze. I covered them with mulch,
after putting heat tape in the most vulnerable spots.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:15:10 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2008@gmail.com
>wrote:
>
>>How I hate that.
>>
>>I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
>>water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
>>opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
>>warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>>
>>I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>>
>>I shut the main water valve off.
>
>Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.
>
>>Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
>>water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
>>open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>>
>>Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
>>off every day?
>>
>>What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
>>Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
>>freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
>>and again, till it is finally spring.
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Gene

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:02 pm
From: GeneCook2008@gmail.com

On Jan 20, 6:38 pm, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:56:39 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jan 20, 5:15 pm, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2...@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >How I hate that.
>
> >> >I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
> >> >water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
> >> >opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
> >> >warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>
> >> >I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>
> >> >I shut the main water valve off.
>
> >> Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.
>
> >> >Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
> >> >water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
> >> >open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>
> >> >Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
> >> >off every day?
>
> >> >What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
> >> >Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
> >> >freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
> >> >and again, till it is finally spring.
>
> >> >What do you think?
>
> >> >Gene
>
> >I am afraid I don't understand. Why should I turn the hot water heater
> >off? I have gas.
>
> >Gene
>
> You count on the water to conduct the heat away from the heater/burner
> and to the thermostat. If the tank runs low on water, the thermostat
> can read can't see that the heater/burner is running with nothing to
> heat. The water is the heat sink that conducts heat from the heater
> and keeps it at a reasonable temperature. If it's not there the
> heater/burner it will overheat and could be a fire hazard.

I get it, not enough water but gas burning inside might set the thing
on fire, right?

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:05 pm
From: GeneCook2008@gmail.com

On Jan 20, 6:46 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Your problem is that you have a gmail account.
>
> First,

Thanks buddy for the grammar lesson. Just what you want to hear when
your place is under water.

It is exactly the time in which a person has time to work on typos and
grammar. Home under water - but grammar is perfect and all typos
erradicated!

Thanks for being so realistic.

Gene

> it is "plumber," not plummer. Plumb, from the latin "plumb" for
> lead, which is what plumbers used to use.
>
> Secondly, the dripping faucet routine doesn't work. You have to have
> a certain amount of heat in the water for it to work. Get electric
> heat tape to place alongside your pipes, then get some foam pipe
> insulation to cover the pipe and tape.
>
> Third, it ain't bursted. A pipe bursts. The past tense is also burst.
>
> Yeah, I had some frozen pipes last freeze. I covered them with mulch,
> after putting heat tape in the most vulnerable spots.
>
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:15:10 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_r...@bogus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:59:07 -0800 (PST), GeneCook2...@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> >>How I hate that.
>
> >>I have straw outside my crawl space home to warm the pipes. I had
> >>water dripping from the faucets so that the pipes don't freeze. I
> >>opened the closets underneath the sinks. I had a space heater blowing
> >>warm heat at the pipes, nevertheless they FROZE and bursted today.
>
> >>I don't think that I get a plummer before Tuesday.
>
> >>I shut the main water valve off.
>
> >Make sure you shut off your hot water heater.
>
> >>Now, my question is: As I am living alone, would you shut the main
> >>water valve off every day before you go to bed and empty all pipes and
> >>open the main water valve the next morning to protect the pipes?
>
> >>Is there anything that speaks against shutting the main water switch
> >>off every day?
>
> >>What I am thinking is this: If the plummer is fixing the pipes on
> >>Tuesday, it might cost me dearly. Then he goes, the next day, they
> >>freeze again up on me, etc. And I have to fix them again, and again,
> >>and again, till it is finally spring.
>
> >>What do you think?
>
> >>Gene

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS SERVICES OFFERED! 4FRONT INVESTIGATIONS 888-248-
4004
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/81b4e6599996af65?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:38 pm
From: 4Front <4frontinvestigations@gmail.com>

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We offer flat rate pricing on these types of cases for our clients. We
find this to be more cost effective for you rather than billing you by
the hour at $90.00 per hour plus expenses.

We charge $795.00 per 8 hour day, all inclusive of any and all costs
associated with the Surveillance Investigation. We provide full
videotape and photograph documentation of the person's activities as
well as a comprehensive Investigative report.

Note: The only exception to our flat rate pricing of $795.00 is Hawaii
where the price increases to $1125.00 flat rate per day. We do not
like raising our price on the Islands but due to substantially hire
costs we have no choice but to do so.

We work with you as the client to draw up a game plan which is the
most cost effective way of addressing this matter for you effectively.

Our Agent(s) follow the subject(s) videotape and photograph ALL of
their activities. Anywhere they go, what vehicle(s) they travel in,
anyone they meet with or accompany, all times dates and locations are
documented for your review. We supply our client with a DVD or VHS of
all videotape taken along with photographs and a comprehensive
reporting each day. This price is based on a single Investigator for 8
hours. Some cases warranted two Investigators. A second Investigator
adds an additional cost of $350.00 per 8 hours to our flat rate price
of $795.00 per day. The only exception to this would be out of state
travel where additional expenses would apply.

We can also break the 8 hour day into two 4 hour segments for an
additional $100.00 if you desire your case worked this way.

We offer a multi day discount for clients that request 3 days or more
of surveillance. The price is reduced to $720.00 per day for these
cases.

CRIMINAL & CORPORATE INVESTIGATIONS

Ownership of our company consists of retired Law Enforcement
Management Personnel. All Field Agents are retired Federal, State or
Local Law Enforcement personnel very experienced in working the most
complex of cases whether in the criminal or corporate arena. Our
Corporation services fortune 500 companies with their corporate needs
as well all aspects of criminal cases for defense purposes.

Our staff has thousands of hours of Criminal Investigative experience
and has worked matters as serious as Homicide Investigations, rape,
sexual assault, robbery and a host of other serious offenses to a
successful conclusion.

The hourly rate of $95.00 per hour and .55 cents per mile, plus
expenses in these matters.

COMPREHENSIVE BACKGROUND REPORTS

$220.00 per person

These background reports are very comprehensive in nature and not at
all what you see on line that is available to the general public.

The background reports includes current and past residences, telephone
numbers, social security number, date of birth, alias's,
identification of parents, siblings, marital and divorce, judgments,
tax liens, wage garnishments, repossessions, bankruptcy, criminal
history on a nationwide level to include charges, convictions, case
numbers and arresting agency, driving history, vehicle ownership,
property ownership, watercraft and aircraft ownership and more!

SEARCH FOR CELL OR LANDLINE PHONE OWNERSHIP

If you have the telephone number we can find the name and address of
the owner of the number for you. Cost for this service is $250.00 per
number and generally takes two business days to complete.

LOCATE A MISSING OR LOST PERSON (Skip Trace Investigations)

$200.00 per person - Full money back guarantee should we not be able
to determine their current address. We do not use the same programs
available to the General Public as most if not all of those sites are
inaccurate and old at best with the information they provide.

GPS Global Tracking Units!

Our office owns portable GPS units that can be hidden inside a vehicle
or attached under a vehicle to monitor a vehicles location every 5
minutes by exact address, city and state. We ship the unit out to you,
instruct you on where and how to attach the unit to the vehicle in
question and provide you web site monitoring criteria to track this
vehicles every movement over a 24 hour period of time. The unit can be
easily hidden inside a vehicle and is about the size of a pack of
cigarettes.

24 hour rental - 200.00
$1200.00 refundable deposit
Client pays shipping costs both ways

ASSET SEARCH INVESTIGATION

We offer 3 different caliber asset searches for our clients. Each of
the 3 returns any and all bank account information, account number,
date the account was opened, current balance amount, any and all
property ownership, any and all stocks and bonds, life insurance
policies, business or corporate ownership, watercraft, aircraft and
vehicle ownership. This search locates any financial institution
account, bank, savings and loan or credit union account. Assets
searches are generally completed within 5 to 7 business days.

State wide asset search by individual state

$691.00

U.S. wide asset search for all states

$1195.00

Worldwide including offshore accounts

$2350.00

Please allow approximately 3 weeks to complete this type of
investigation.

DEPOSIT & WITHDRAWAL DETAILS ON "KNOWN BANK ACCOUNT"

This service provides deposit and withdrawal details for any bank
account.

The cost for this service is $400 for every month that you are
requesting information for.

CREDIT CARD ACTIVITY

You will receive on month of all credit card activity for any credit
card #. The report will include any debits/credits, date, amount,
transaction type, and city & vendor that the transaction took place.

The cost for this service is $400 for every month you are requesting
information for.

CREDIT REPORT - ALL 3 MAJOR REPORTING AGENCIES

$295.00 per individual

STOCK/BROKERAGE ACCOUNTS

This service provides deposits and withdrawals on up to 5 accounts at
one stock/brokerage. You will also receive the phone number, the
signor(s), Par Value (Amount), transaction type & date.

The cost for this service is $500 for every month that you are
requesting information for.

PERSONAL FINANCIAL PROFILE PACKAGE

This service lets you find out comprehensive financial information on
anyone. You will receive bank account information (which includes:
signor(s), bank address/phone number, account type, current balance)
as well as a full credit report (which includes: all know addresses,
phone numbers, credit score, aliases, vital identification
information, social security number, payment histories, collection
statistics, joint credit information, employment information, and
more.) This is the most detailed financial profile report available.

The cost for this service is $450.

TRACING LIABILITY INSURANCE POLICY LIMITS

This service provides insurance policy information for any type of
case.

E.g. Auto Insurance (personal or business) motorcycle, dog bite, slips
& falls, assault, product, malpractice, & dram shop.

The cost for this service is $450.

CUSTOMS RECORDS

This search will provide customs record for All US and Canadian
reports for any container, shipment, or product. You will receive the
origination of shipment, designation of shipment, APEX, Ship in or
Ship out, taxes on shipment, date and time in, date and time out, and
when the shipment cleared.

The cost for this service is $1,050.

INSURANCE RECORDS

This service will provide information on any insurance policies for
any person/business in the US or Canada. You will receive information
on any health, whole life, personal, business, and vehicle,
malpractice, assault, and product insurance policies.

The report may also include details of injury, medication being taken,
if they are receiving psychiatric care, etc.

The cost for this service is $1,000.

HIGH ROLLER/VIP CASINO ACCOUNT DETAILS

This service locates high roller/VIP account details from anyone in
any Casino in any Country.

The report contains account balances, wires, deposits, withdrawals,
markers, perks, arrival date, and departure date.

The cost for this service is $1,200.

EMPLOYMENT VERIFICATION OR EMPLOYMENT HISTORY INVESTIGATIONS

Verification of current employment by Name, date of birth and social
security number. This search provides current employment of a subject,
address and telephone number of employer. $339.00

Employment history search provides all employment history past and
present $325.00

EDUCATIONAL HISTORY - NATIONWIDE

$320.00 per person

TELEPHONE CALL RECORDS, CELLULAR OR LANDLINE

We obtain these records for our clients with the understanding they
are provided for informational purposes only. We assume the requesting
party has a legal right to access this information. These records are
becoming increasingly difficult to obtain and the price we are charged
to obtain these records for our clients is substantial.

4Front Investigations will assume no liability for providing this
material to our client in addition to the client assuming any and all
responsibility should the providing of this material come into
question in any legal proceeding.

The cost is based per billing cycle (per month) at $419.00 per month.
We must have the name, address and social security number of the owner
of the telephone to obtain the records. If you do not know the SSN or
address we charge an additional $49.00 to obtain this for the
investigation.

EMAIL INVESTIGATIONS

Reverse search to obtain persons name associated with email address
$275.00 (full refund if we are unable to determine this information)

Search for new email addresses associated with a person $290.00 (full
refund if the results fail to identify new account information)

Search for forwarding email address $290.00 (full refund if the
results fail to identify a forwarding email address

Search for email password for an email account $380.00

Computer Keystroke Tracking Device: $365.00
What might I use the Computer Ghost for?
* Find out if your wife/girl friend has a new boyfriend in a chat
room.
* See if the children are surfing porn sites.
* Make sure your employees aren't surfing the web all day.
* Record employee passwords (including BIOS and Boot passwords) to
ensure access to company files and property.
* Recover a letter that you are writing when Windows locks up.
HIDDEN SURVEILLANCE DEVICES "NANNY CAMS"

Contact our office for a list of devices we provide with hidden video
and still photograph technology.

BUG SWEEPS FOR ELECTRONIC LISTENING OR VIDEO DEVICES

Pricing depends on location(s), square footage of area to be examined
etc.

VEHICLE OWNERSHIP IDENTIFICATION (REGISTERED OWNER

$250.00 per license plate or VIN

EXECUTIVE PROTECTION SERVICES

Each one of our Agents has extensive training on the latest threats to
corporate executives and how to combat those threats in today's world.
At any point in time we currently have Agents working various
protection matters worldwide and can assist you with your personal
protection needs for private individuals or corporate needs anytime
and anywhere!

Our Agents are drawn from retired law enforcement personnel, ex Army
Ranger/Navy Seal team members and receive state of the art training on
personal protection.

We have Agents currently deployed around the world including the
Middle East on assignment with very high profile clients.

Your investigations is very confidential and in fact we will not
discuss or even disclose the nature of our work and who were working
for with ANYONE but you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No Credit Score
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/855858b3dc0db6cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 3:56 pm
From: E Z Peaces

I've lived at the same address 25 years. I own the house and pay all
the bills. I've never changed my name, but when I asked for free credit
reports a couple of years ago, agencies told me they had no history for me.

Subsequently, my auto insurer sent me notification that I was getting
the lowest rate because I had the best possible credit rating. Now my
agent has signed me up with another company, who informs me I am paying
a high rate because no credit history is available for me.

What's going on?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:44 pm
From: sarge137

On Jan 20, 4:56 pm, E Z Peaces <c...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I've lived at the same address 25 years. I own the house and pay all
> the bills. I've never changed my name, but when I asked for free credit
> reports a couple of years ago, agencies told me they had no history for me.
>
> Subsequently, my auto insurer sent me notification that I was getting
> the lowest rate because I had the best possible credit rating. Now my
> agent has signed me up with another company, who informs me I am paying
> a high rate because no credit history is available for me.
>
> What's going on?

Having no credit history is as bad, if not worse in some cases, as
having a poor history. That's why young people with no or limited
credit have such a hard time getting favorable rates on mortgages,
major loans and insurance. That insurance agent who told you having
no credit history was best was flat talking out of his (or her) butt.

Having said all that, I can't imagine how someone who has been a
homeowner and bill payer for 25 years has no credit history. I
suppose I could contrive a scenario where you were born into major
money, have been independently wealthy all your life, and have never
held a job, had a bank account or needed credit for anything.

Assuming everything you've said is 100% accurate, if I were you, I'd
be spending a lot of time with the credit bureaus finding out which
incorrect SSN my credit history is filed under.

Regards,
Sarge

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:48 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:56:17 -0500, E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>I've lived at the same address 25 years. I own the house and pay all
>the bills. I've never changed my name, but when I asked for free credit
>reports a couple of years ago, agencies told me they had no history for me.
>
>Subsequently, my auto insurer sent me notification that I was getting
>the lowest rate because I had the best possible credit rating. Now my
>agent has signed me up with another company, who informs me I am paying
>a high rate because no credit history is available for me.
>
>What's going on?

Does the phrase "parallel universe" mean anything to you?

Different credit reporting agencies. Get the report from the three
majors.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:10 pm
From: -

Jeff wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>> plenty900@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I recall that around Christmas in the USA,
>>> the mass-media cartel told us repeatedly that
>>> retailers were having a hard time. Boo hoo!
>>>
>>> Based on this new, I assumed that post-Christmas
>>> discounting would be widespread. But no,
>>> what I discovered was hiked-up prices or
>>> worse, hiked-up-then-discounted prices.
>>>
>>> For instance at Kohl's, which sells clothing.
>>> Their "sale" prices were simply hiked-up
>>> prices taken down. The result was that
>>> prices were actually higher than normal.
>>>
>>> At Sears I do notice many sales, however,
>>> including a comical ad for jeans starting
>>> at $3.50 -- bait and switch surely.
>>>
>>> Electronics stores have had very few
>>> real discounts after Christmas, except for
>>> a few items e.g. the $450 Toshiba laptop
>>> at BestBuy (always check that the factory
>>> seal isn't broken). But other items remain
>>> at high prices.
>>>
>>> However at MicroCenter there are
>>> a few deals on thumb drives and media,
>>> although that's typical for them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Considering the widespread losses, I'd say prices have generally
>> bottomed out.
>>
>> It's going to be hard to replace inventory with the ever declining
>> value of the US dollar.
>
> A lot of people don't understand just how rotten the underpinnings of
> the economy have become.
>
> The value of the dollar has fallen by nearly half in the last 7
> years. The credit markets are a mess, no one knows the amount of risk in
> the debt. And the economy is kept sputtering along by cheap money and debt.
>
> The DJIA closed at 12,100 friday and when "W"onder President was
> inaugurated it was 10,700. 1 1/2 % a year, and that is the group that
> has gotten the top deal.
>
> Jeff
The devalue of the dollar is deliberate. N one master stroke just the
combination of policies by this Globalist Administrations.
His mandate was to reduce the US to the global economic level lowest
common denominator. He said he was a "Globalist" he has restated that
many times. Global Business and the Global Ruling Economic Aristocracy
had declared that the US Dollar was too high. To reduce U S
Citizens/Consumers to the same level as the third world would, in the
long run bring about a higher wealth poverty ratio for them. To have
great wealth you must have poverty. If everyone had the same wealth
their would be no wealth. There would be no demand and there would be no
power.
They have rewritten our Banking Laws and Contracts Laws. By their very
wording they are unconstitutional. The Administration is championing
Globalism not the Republic. The Constitution is an obstacle and much in
contempt by the Globalists.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

No surprise that its a racecourse bum.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

No surprise that its a racecourse bum.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 5:04 pm
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> Some stupid pig ignorant racecourse bum claiming to be
> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> desperately
> attempted to bullshit its way out of its predicament
> and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.
>
> No surprise that its a racecourse bum.
>
>
Can't answer, can you?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:45 pm
From: "Pete C."

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:fmvp8i$rkl$2@news.datemas.de...
> > Pete C. wrote:
> >
> >> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> >>>True, but the OP could use the original lenses in new frames. There's no
> >>>law that says a frame and lenses must be sold together.
> >>
> >>
> >> They keep changing frame shapes to prevent that (more profits). The
> >> lenses may be perfectly fine, but it's very likely you won't find new
> >> frames of the same size and shape if it's more than a year or two old.
> >
> > When my mother's frames broke, the first shop we went to said they didn't
> > have frames to fit her lenses, but they could do both frames and lenses.
> > When I said we go someplace else, it was amazing how fast they found a
> > pair of frames that fit.
> >
> > Marsha/Ohio
> >
>
> Marsha,
> That's a horrible story but probably very typical. I've always suspected
> that most glasses purchases are a rip-off. I can't see more than a few
> dollars worth of materials and labor in a pair of frames.

The How it's Made series that runs on the Discovery Channel had an
episode showing the manufacture of eyeglass frames, as well as an
episode showing the lens manufacture. There is a bit more involved than
you probably think, and on the lens side there is some very expensive
specialized equipment involved.

> Fortunately, I need only reading glasses and have never paid more than 3
> pairs for $19.95! Other family members need prescription lenses and get
> screwed on price all the time.

I'm pretty happy with my contacts.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 4:48 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

Many thanks for excellent replies. My plan is to try to get stainless
solder and then try a jeweler. THere is a place on Queens Blvd which
says "watch repair & shoe repair"

If I get sep read/walk glasses, Zenni is as low as $9. I got the
eyeglasses which broke in 2003 for $30 and that "factory outlet" now
costs $40. They must be cast iron because they hurt and I tried to
bend them in church when they broke. I used to be good at bending. I
really don't care if the temple looks different.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm

---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

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