Frugal Living: Nov 20, 2007

Tuesday, November 20, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where did the 400 billion USD in subprime mortgage losses go
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b5ad94e9eb8e056?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:04 pm
From: "acne_is_incurable@hotmail.com"

This $400 billion anticipated loss figure has been bandied about by
Deutsche Bank (in the cited article):

"The total damage may reach $400 billion, Deutsche Bank analysts said
last week."

And also by Goldman-Sachs:

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/11/16/goldman-sachs-predicts-2-trillion-in-losses-from-credit-mess/

"Jan Hatzius, chief economist at Goldman Sachs in New York, estimates
that losses related to foreclosures could be as high as $400 billion
for financial companies."

Isn't it funny how two institutions both come up with the same
estimate for losses (notice they use different terminology)? Lookie
here. The paper loss could reach a trillion dollars, for all we know,
if the face value is in that region (who knows?). But what is the real
loss? Assuming an institution holds on to its CDOs, or another one
buys it at a fire sale price, somebody will make money, or make back
some money, or lose less money than they thought. We have a liquidity
problem right now, just like I mentioned last week:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.invest.stocks/browse_frm/thread/a74449b0a8431eaf/

These instruments are huge, they are complex, and they are varied.
F**kin' quants really outdid themselves this time. Just to liquidate
or sell pieces of a CDO will take an army of accountants, lawyers, and
conveyance corporations. The last element of the food chain, the
bottom feeders, deal directly with the CC's through auctions (this
varies by state). I'm not even including derivative CDOs. So, to
answer the OP's original question, a bunch of different people will
make money from the meltdown. Money, like matter, can neither be
created or destroyed. Except by governments. Assuming we are not
talking about inflation or deflation, the value goes somewhere. It has
to.

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:10 pm
From: "FrediFizzx"

"Shaun Eli" <missingchild@brainchampagne.com> wrote in message
news:00b8ce53-93d1-4559-a800-a5f190dada63@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> An example:
>
> Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
> worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that much).
>
> Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.
>
> Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
> owing, let's say, $490,000.
>
> Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers than
> buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.
>
> Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
> bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.
>
> Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account, or
> whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing to pay
> $500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault that the
> house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe hadn't defaulted
> it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be living in the house
> and making payments on it, regardless of what it's actually worth at
> any random point in time. And you could say that it's maybe Joe's
> fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't really afford, as well as
> maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage broker's) fault for lending him the
> money. There's plenty of blame to go around but the one who may have
> ended up with the money isn't necessarily the culprit, if there is any
> in any particular case.

Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at
the top have the money.

Fred

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Shaun Eli" <missingchild@brainchampagne.com> wrote in message
> news:00b8ce53-93d1-4559-a800-a5f190dada63@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> An example:
>>
>> Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
>> worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that
>> much). Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.
>>
>> Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
>> owing, let's say, $490,000.
>>
>> Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers than
>> buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.
>>
>> Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
>> bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.
>>
>> Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account,
>> or whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing to
>> pay $500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault
>> that the house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe
>> hadn't defaulted it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be
>> living in the house and making payments on it, regardless of what
>> it's actually worth at any random point in time. And you could say
>> that it's maybe Joe's fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't
>> really afford, as well as maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage
>> broker's) fault for lending him the money. There's plenty of blame
>> to go around but the one who may have ended up with the money isn't
>> necessarily the culprit, if there is any in any particular case.

> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at the top have the money.

No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large
oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with those
who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 2:57 pm
From: RightEagle

On Nov 20, 1:28 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> FrediFizzx <fredifi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Shaun Eli" <missingch...@brainchampagne.com> wrote in message
> >news:00b8ce53-93d1-4559-a800-a5f190dada63@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> >> An example:
>
> >> Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
> >> worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that
> >> much). Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.
>
> >> Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
> >> owing, let's say, $490,000.
>
> >> Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers than
> >> buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.
>
> >> Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
> >> bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.
>
> >> Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account,
> >> or whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing to
> >> pay $500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault
> >> that the house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe
> >> hadn't defaulted it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be
> >> living in the house and making payments on it, regardless of what
> >> it's actually worth at any random point in time. And you could say
> >> that it's maybe Joe's fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't
> >> really afford, as well as maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage
> >> broker's) fault for lending him the money. There's plenty of blame
> >> to go around but the one who may have ended up with the money isn't
> >> necessarily the culprit, if there is any in any particular case.
> > Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at the top have the money.
>
> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large
> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with those
> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hedge funds drive up the price of Subprime Funds, and the Media in
turn, caused a huge drop in the prices because of the negative slant
of news in general. Thus investment firms lost billions on a bet that
these funds would keep rising, which they could not because of rising
interest rates.

http://www.globaltreeregistry.com/Home_Page.html

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:21 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

ightEagle <therighteagle@msn.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 1:28 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> FrediFizzx <fredifi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Shaun Eli" <missingch...@brainchampagne.com> wrote in message
>>> news:00b8ce53-93d1-4559-a800-a5f190dada63@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> An example:
>>
>>>> Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
>>>> worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that
>>>> much). Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.
>>
>>>> Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
>>>> owing, let's say, $490,000.
>>
>>>> Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers
>>>> than buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.
>>
>>>> Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
>>>> bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.
>>
>>>> Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account,
>>>> or whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing
>>>> to pay $500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault
>>>> that the house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe
>>>> hadn't defaulted it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be
>>>> living in the house and making payments on it, regardless of what
>>>> it's actually worth at any random point in time. And you could say
>>>> that it's maybe Joe's fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't
>>>> really afford, as well as maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage
>>>> broker's) fault for lending him the money. There's plenty of blame
>>>> to go around but the one who may have ended up with the money isn't
>>>> necessarily the culprit, if there is any in any particular case.
>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold
>>> at the top have the money.

>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large
>> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with those
>> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.

> Hedge funds drive up the price of Subprime Funds, and the Media in
> turn, caused a huge drop in the prices because of the negative slant
> of news in general. Thus investment firms lost billions on a bet that
> these funds would keep rising, which they could not because of rising
> interest rates.

It had nothing to do with rising interest rates, everything to do with
loans to fools that should never have got the loans in the first place
who were absolutely guaranteed to default on those loans.

Nothing to do with the media either.

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:22 pm
From: "FrediFizzx"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5qgub4F103pskU1@mid.individual.net...
> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at
>> the top have the money.
>
> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the
> large
> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with
> those
> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.

What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the top?
This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the money
went. It doesn't just vaporize.

Fred

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:28 pm
From: "BillGross@gmail.ca"

The money was spent foolishly on shit that china makes and sells to
lowlife american
assholes living in trailer parks and posting on this group.
China will in turn use it to build up a military and take over the
wasteland to the south
of canada. . . . lucky for the world that it is not inhabited by
intellegent life.

You gotta love this, $300 oil ! ! ! ! Buy anything tar
sands. . . . that is until they vote
to allow drilling on FreddiFiXXed fatassed wifes armpits.

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca <NOSPAM> wrote:

> The money was spent foolishly on shit that china makes and sells to
> lowlife american assholes living in trailer parks and posting on this group.

The problem with sub prime loans has NOTHING to do with trailer parks.

The problem is actually with housing loans to those who were
'living' in trailer parks that they couldnt possibly ever pay off.

> China will in turn use it to build up a military and
> take over the wasteland to the south of canada. . . .

Have fun explaining how come they couldnt even manage to invade Vietnam.

> lucky for the world that it is not inhabited by intellegent life.

Neither is north of that border if you are any indication.

> You gotta love this, $300 oil ! ! ! !

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed lard arse fantasys.

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at the top have the money.

> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the top?

Those had to buy something else to 'live' in and the value of that dropped too.

> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the money went.

Nope.

> It doesn't just vaporize.

Corse it does when the whole market drops significantly.

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:23 pm
From: CJT

Rod Speed wrote:

> Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca <NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>>The money was spent foolishly on shit that china makes and sells to
>>lowlife american assholes living in trailer parks and posting on this group.
>
>
> The problem with sub prime loans has NOTHING to do with trailer parks.
>
> The problem is actually with housing loans to those who were
> 'living' in trailer parks that they couldnt possibly ever pay off.
>
>
>>China will in turn use it to build up a military and
>>take over the wasteland to the south of canada. . . .
>
>
> Have fun explaining how come they couldnt even manage to invade Vietnam.
>
>
>>lucky for the world that it is not inhabited by intellegent life.
>
>
> Neither is north of that border if you are any indication.
>
>
>>You gotta love this, $300 oil ! ! ! !
>
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed lard arse fantasys.
>
>
I don't know about $300, but $150 looks like a lock.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:29 pm
From: "Bill Reid"

FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5qhfkiFvj35pU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5qgub4F103pskU1@mid.individual.net...
> > FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at
> >> the top have the money.
> >
> > No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the
> > large
> > oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with
> > those
> > who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.
>
> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the top?
> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the money
> went. It doesn't just vaporize.

Oh, but it does, eventually. Last time this question came
up, I mentioned my brother-in-law and sister kind of sold
at the top in one of the most expensive real-estate markets
and moved to the same size house in a much less expensive
market and pocketed the difference. So THAT'S where the
money went...first.

Then of course they bought a boat, and then they needed a
new giant truck to haul it around, so the boat dealer and the
truck dealer got it, and so on. So everybody wound up getting
a little piece of it.

But now THAT well is dry, so where is the NEXT $400billion
gonna come from? I think my brother-in-law and sister and their
boat and truck dealers deserve an answer to that question...as do
we all, or at least those of us who are smart enough to even ask
the question (and answer it)...

---
William Ernest Reid
Post count: 854

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:29 pm
From: "FrediFizzx"

"Bill Reid" <hormelfree@happyhealthy.net> wrote in message
news:nKM0j.123036$kj1.50673@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5qhfkiFvj35pU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:5qgub4F103pskU1@mid.individual.net...
>> > FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold
>> >> at
>> >> the top have the money.
>> >
>> > No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the
>> > large
>> > oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with
>> > those
>> > who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.
>>
>> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the top?
>> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the money
>> went. It doesn't just vaporize.
>
> Oh, but it does, eventually. Last time this question came
> up, I mentioned my brother-in-law and sister kind of sold
> at the top in one of the most expensive real-estate markets
> and moved to the same size house in a much less expensive
> market and pocketed the difference. So THAT'S where the
> money went...first.
>
> Then of course they bought a boat, and then they needed a
> new giant truck to haul it around, so the boat dealer and the
> truck dealer got it, and so on. So everybody wound up getting
> a little piece of it.
>
> But now THAT well is dry, so where is the NEXT $400billion
> gonna come from? I think my brother-in-law and sister and their
> boat and truck dealers deserve an answer to that question...as do
> we all, or at least those of us who are smart enough to even ask
> the question (and answer it)...

<Sigh> I really thought that perhaps you were "smarter than a fifth
grader". ;-) The money is still out there circulating, isn't it? Your
sister's family have some assets they didn't have before, don't they?
The next $400 billion comes from working for it and for time that passes
to make real estate worth more. Sure, real estate is kind of like a
pyramid scheme but it has always been that way and will continue barring
some major catastrophic event.

Fred

== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:45 pm
From: ""

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:36:44 -0800, Wilson <davewilson69@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I keep reading about the 400 billion us dollars in subprime losses to date,
>e.g, see this bloomberg article http://tinyurl.com/2vjgq7
>
>Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar
>gain.
>
>I don't understand WHO gained from this 400 billion dollars?
>
>Who wins here? How?
>I'm cash rich - can I benefit by taking some action?

You buy a house for $500,000 ( with a full mortgage )

In theory, your bank is holding papers on a $500,000 asset.

You lose your job and can't make payments.
Meanwhile. demand for half-million houses has dried up.
You try to sell your house for a half-mil... can't.

You default on your mortgage. Bank forecloses.
But now, the best they can sell the house for is...... $250,000

Where did the other quarter-mil go ?

The only person who got away clean is the original seller.
They walked away with a check for $500,000 minus closing costs.

<rj>

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:08 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <C368922B.98859%blash1@comcast.net>,
Blash <blash1@comcast.net> wrote:

> Wilson wrote on 11/20/07 12:36 PM:
>
> > Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar
> > gain.
>
> Sounds nice......just NOT factual.......
> You build a house for $1million......a week later, dumb mikey moves in next
> door......once you meet him, you want out so you sell your house for
> $600K.....
> You've lost $400K......did anybody make $400K??? the answer is NO!!!

I'd love to have you doing my taxes with that kind of abuse of math.

The poster pays $1-million for a house. He sells for $600K. He
has a loss of $400K. This is a real world loss.

Lets say he spent $800K, and the house was valued at $1-million.
He sells at $600k. Now his loss is only $200K.

Who gained this $400K and $200K, the builder, who in turn paid
for workers and materials, who in turn bought stuff at stores
and paid for raw materials. That money kept the business cycle
going.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications

http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:19 pm
From: "BillGross@gmail.ca"

Truth is it really doesnt matter, long as the american economy goes
bust and soon.

Billions around the globe hate america and we will be dancing in the
street when that
shithole sinks into the sea. Fuck america and all the lousy bastards
within her
fat and USeless borders.
I hope Chavez gets nukes soon.

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:33 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca <NOSPAM> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The money was spent foolishly on shit that china makes and sells to
>>> lowlife american assholes living in trailer parks and posting on
>>> this group.
>>
>>
>> The problem with sub prime loans has NOTHING to do with trailer
>> parks. The problem is actually with housing loans to those who were
>> 'living' in trailer parks that they couldnt possibly ever pay off.
>>
>>
>>> China will in turn use it to build up a military and
>>> take over the wasteland to the south of canada. . . .
>>
>>
>> Have fun explaining how come they couldnt even manage to invade
>> Vietnam.
>>> lucky for the world that it is not inhabited by intellegent life.
>>
>>
>> Neither is north of that border if you are any indication.
>>
>>
>>> You gotta love this, $300 oil ! ! ! !
>>
>>
>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed lard arse fantasys.
>>
>>
> I don't know about $300, but $150 looks like a lock.

We'll see...

Its certainly possible that the USD will sag so badly that it might happen, but that
sort of thing has been predicted plenty of times before and hasnt happened.

It certainly wont be $300 any time soon.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: a complete shiatsu massage tutorial in persian with picture
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1771c3330036e373?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:04 pm
From: Faramarz kowsari

a complete shiatsu massage tutorial in persian with picture
clock here

http://groups.google.com/group/kowsarshiatsu/web/shiatsu.htm
or
http://fkowsari.parsaspace.ir/ad/shiatsu/shiatsu.htm
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

==============================================================================
TOPIC: emergency mail
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2a49d60e672c0f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:48 pm
From: George

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> http://www.emergencmail.org/

>
>
why?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Milenko Kindl hohjdfioejdwedj[0edjkw0ejo
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c53d3f9ed47f5ad2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 1:42 pm
From: antihurricane

On 19. Nov, 11:19 h., Milenko Kindl <tral...@shiftmail.com> wrote:
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>
> In Galachipa, a fishing village along the coast in Patuakhali
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>
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>
> On the way to a shelter, Mridha was separated from his wife, mother
> and two children. The next morning he found their bodies stuck in a
> battered bush along the coast.
>
> The coast abounded with such grim tales followingTropicalCycloneSidr-- the worstcycloneto hit Bangladesh in a decade. Many grieving
> families buried their loved ones in the same grave because no male
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>
> The official death toll from thecyclonethat hit Thursday had reached
> 2,407 on Monday, according to the Disaster Management Ministry.
> However, there were fears it could be much higher.
>
> The Bangladesh Red Crescent Society, the Islamic equivalent of the Red
> Cross, warned the toll could hit 10,000 once rescuers reach outlying
> islands.
>
> The society's chairman, Mohammad Abdur Rob, said the estimate came
> from the assessments of thousands of volunteers involved in rescue
> operations across the battered region.
>
> Helicopters airlifted food to hungry survivors Monday while rescuers
> struggled to reach remote areas. The army helicopters carried mostly
> high-protein cookies supplied by the World Food Program, said Emamul
> Haque, a spokesman for the WFP office in Bangladesh's capital, Dhaka,
> which is coordinating international relief efforts.
>
> International aid organizations promised initial packages of $25
> million during a meeting with Bangladesh agencies Monday, Haque said.
>
> Milenko Kindl
> Banja Luka
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HURRICANE ACTIVE PREVENTION

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freezer Bags - Any Difference?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6e3d8a5df603c84?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 3:36 pm
From: "Kathi Jones"

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:434d93cc-ffc2-4917-a981-b35f647e56b4@b32g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 19, 3:19 pm, "Kathi Jones" <kat...@storm.ca> wrote:
>
>> what each bag is made of, I have no idea, but I've read that cooking in
>> them
>> is not safe
>
> http://www.thegreenguide.com/reports/product.mhtml?id=44&sec=3 says
> that the following products are OK:
> BestYet Clear Plastic Wrap
>
> Bell Brand Athletic Squeeze Bottles (colors) Brita Fill & Go Water
> Filtration Bottle
>
> Glad Cling Wrap
>
> Glad Food Storage Bags
>
> Glad Freezer Bags
>
> Glad-Lock Bags
>
> Glad Sandwich Bags
>
> Hefty Baggies
>
> Hefty OneZip Slider Bags
>
> Saran Cling Plus
>
> Ziploc Bags
>
> Ziplock Double Guard Freezer Bags
>
> --
> Ron
>
>

thanks for the break-down Ron. I was sure that if anyone wanted to go to
the trouble, they could find out about each individual brand and bag. Looks
like you found it for us,

Kathi

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Prices on Custom T-Shirts (not spam!)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a7ac7369dbe875fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:35 pm
From: "Joe"

I'm looking to buy t-shorts with printed info inexpensively... I was
provided with this offer by my webhost of all places...

Is this a good deal or does anyone know a better source?

...and *NO* I'm not selling them so I'm not advertising this as an offer!!!

Printed - Two lines...

Possibly an unlimited number of characters per line.

NO GRAPHICS, text only.

S, M, L, or XL - only $4.99
2XL - $5.99
3XL or 4XL - $6.99

Available T-shirt Colors: Black, Gray, White, Navy, Red, Pink, Ash, Gold,
Chocolate, Royal Blue, and Natural

4XL only available in Black, Gray, White, Navy Red, and Royal Blue

US Shipping Charges:
1 T-Shirt - $2.99
2 T-Shirts - $3.99
3 T-Shirts - $4.99
4 T-Shirts - $5.99
5 T-Shirts - $6.99
6 T-Shirts - $7.99
7 T-Shirts - $8.99
8 T-Shirts - $9.99
9 T-Shirts - $10.99
10 - 50 T-Shirts - $1.00 each
51 or more - .50 each

Canadian Shipping Charges:
1 T-Shirt - $3.99
2 T-Shirts - $5.49
3 T-Shirts - $6.99
4 T-Shirts - $7.49
5 T-Shirts - $8.99
6 T-Shirts - $9.49
7 T-Shirts - $10.99
8 T-Shirts - $11.49
9 T-Shirts - $12.99
10 - 50 T-Shirts - $1.50 each
51 or more - 1.00 each

International Shipping Charges:
$11.99 for one shirt and $2.50 for each additional shirt

Thinking about ordering some shorts and these are the best prices I can
find... Or actually, they found me... My webhost is offering them of all
people.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

Hillary Exposed:
http://tinyurl.com/2v4avg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:50 pm
From: weberm@polaris.net (Ubiquitous)

atropos@mac.com wrote:
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote:

>> Couldn't help but notice you didn't mention anything at all
>> about the people that steal the money in the first place and
>> give it to the so called *illegals*.
>
>There's nothing "so-called" about them. They broke the law to come
>here. Their continued presence is a violation of law. That makes them
>illegal.

You obviously missed his point, to wit, why is the gubberment using
tax payers' money to subsidize Digital TVs?

--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The world according to Rod Speed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07750d05eafd4cb3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:27 pm
From: William Souden

The yuan is still linked to the dollar.
There is no need to write checks. Even if you rent your landlord will
take credit/debit cards.
The First Amendment does not apply to non-citizens who are in the US.
In the US the number of weekly new job losses only exceeded the
monthly number of new jobs one time over the last few years.
Online editions of newspapers have the same content as print versions.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:02 pm
From: Logan Shaw

William Souden wrote:
> The yuan is still linked to the dollar.
> There is no need to write checks. Even if you rent your landlord will
> take credit/debit cards.
> The First Amendment does not apply to non-citizens who are in the US.
> In the US the number of weekly new job losses only exceeded the
> monthly number of new jobs one time over the last few years.
> Online editions of newspapers have the same content as print versions.

OK, we get that you're fascinated with Rod and devote a lot of time to
thinking about him. No need to remind us in the future.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap wholesale NBA shoes, jordan sneakers,gucci purses,Anya Hindmarch
Bag
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e922fe1d1e4c7485?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:23 pm
From: globwholesale@126.com

www.globwholesale.com
We sell all kinds of sport shoes.
Such as nike shoes,Jordan,nike air force,nike air max 2003,nike air
max 2004,nike air max 360,nike air max 97,nike air max 95,nike air max
plus tn,nike air max running,nike ducks,nike kobe,nike shox R4,nike
shox R5 and so on.
If there are anything you are interested,please contact us at once.
e will offer you the best product and service as soon as we receiving
your order.
OUR WEBSITE:www.globwholesale.com
Email:globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn
Best regards!

==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Arab and Asian Indian Stores And The Risks They Encounter
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1dfdeb9e8ca8dc31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:46 am
From: jdoe

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:24:18 -0800 (PST), BrotherSandMonkey
<blinker@volcanomail.com> wrote:

>As you well know, Mom and Pop stores are really much a thing of the
>past when it comes to inner cities and urban areas. This has been
>dominated by owners of Arab descent. While it can be understood these
>Arab- and even Asian Indian- owned stores encounter risks if they are
>located in urban areas ansd if they are 24 hour operated. Thus you may
>at times read of a shooting or robbery taking place involving a store
>of this type. Not to mention that these stores may mark up goods which
>they purchased at stores primarily catering to the average consumer
>(eg Aldi, Save A Lot, et al).
your point is?
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Invisalign(r) Dental Consultation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05f7afa700686db4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 6:56 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

If your primary dental concern is crowding, spacing, overbite,
or underbite--you can learn how to smile again with Invisalign.

Visit us for more info or to request a FREE dental consultation
with a certified Invisalign provider.

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hoodies Sunglasses Nokia N93 Nokia N70 Sony memory card Mobile Phones
etc
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/40eeb69215194dc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:18 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.fashion-sky.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.fashion-sky.com
MSN and E-mail: fashion-sky@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:23 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:25 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 7:27 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:15 am
From: Derric

There is likely a difference between the various bags regarding what
"plasticizers" are used in the plastic. Plasticizers are why some
plastic products are not to be used in the microwave and are probably
the "chemicals" that the posted URL article mentions as being a possible
problem.

Derric

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:37 am
From: Ron Peterson

On Nov 19, 3:19 pm, "Kathi Jones" <kat...@storm.ca> wrote:

> what each bag is made of, I have no idea, but I've read that cooking in them
> is not safe

http://www.thegreenguide.com/reports/product.mhtml?id=44&sec=3 says
that the following products are OK:
BestYet Clear Plastic Wrap

Bell Brand Athletic Squeeze Bottles (colors) Brita Fill & Go Water
Filtration Bottle

Glad Cling Wrap

Glad Food Storage Bags

Glad Freezer Bags

Glad-Lock Bags

Glad Sandwich Bags

Hefty Baggies

Hefty OneZip Slider Bags

Saran Cling Plus

Ziploc Bags

Ziplock Double Guard Freezer Bags

--
Ron

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get off the WATER GRID
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9f36c456ead0e172?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:38 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

Rain Harvesting
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com/library/post/rain-harvesting.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Condoms
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/949bf237375d9666?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 8:40 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

Free Condoms
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com/library/post/free-condoms.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:04 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Cheapo Groovo" <ccsj@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.21acca10e63d2b6798996e@news.wowway.com...
> Free Condoms
> http://cheapogroovo.vox.com/library/post/free-condoms.html

i see there's another id number attached. getting a referral fee, are you?

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:36 am
From: Wilson

I keep reading about the 400 billion us dollars in subprime losses to date,
e.g, see this bloomberg article http://tinyurl.com/2vjgq7

Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar
gain.

I don't understand WHO gained from this 400 billion dollars?

Who wins here? How?
I'm cash rich - can I benefit by taking some action?

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:43 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Wilson" <davewilson69@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:HYE0j.461$Vq.404@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>I keep reading about the 400 billion us dollars in subprime losses to date,
> e.g, see this bloomberg article http://tinyurl.com/2vjgq7
>
> Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar
> gain.
>
> I don't understand WHO gained from this 400 billion dollars?
>
> Who wins here? How?
> I'm cash rich - can I benefit by taking some action?
>

money is created out of thin air by the fed (which is a private entity).
the banks were lending non-existent dollars since they only have to have
about 1 dollar on hand for every 10 they lend, or something like that.
it's called fractional reserve banking.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:31 am
From: Blash

Wilson wrote on 11/20/07 12:36 PM:

> Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar
> gain.

Sounds nice......just NOT factual.......
You build a house for $1million......a week later, dumb mikey moves in next
door......once you meet him, you want out so you sell your house for
$600K.....
You've lost $400K......did anybody make $400K??? the answer is NO!!!

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:36 am
From: "BillGross@gmail.ca"

The more important question is where do the losses live now? And
when and where are they
going to be discovered?
etrade is a great example, good core biz, for whatever reason they did
subprimes by answering the
siren call of high interest rates. They are now crap. etrade will
likely fail taking investors with it
in a lesson of greed blinding heed.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:47 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Wilson <davewilson69@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I keep reading about the 400 billion us dollars in subprime losses
> to date, e.g, see this bloomberg article http://tinyurl.com/2vjgq7

> Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion dollar gain.

Nope.

> I don't understand WHO gained from this 400 billion dollars?

No one did.

> Who wins here?

No one.

> How?

Didnt happen.

> I'm cash rich - can I benefit by taking some action?

Only in the sense of buying a house thats now buyable for rather less than it once was sold for.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:48 am
From: "Rod Speed"

AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Wilson" <davewilson69@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:HYE0j.461$Vq.404@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> I keep reading about the 400 billion us dollars in subprime losses
>> to date, e.g, see this bloomberg article http://tinyurl.com/2vjgq7
>>
>> Where there is a 400 billion dollar loss there is a 400 billion
>> dollar gain.
>>
>> I don't understand WHO gained from this 400 billion dollars?
>>
>> Who wins here? How?
>> I'm cash rich - can I benefit by taking some action?
>>
>
> money is created out of thin air by the fed (which is a private entity). the banks were lending non-existent dollars
> since they only have to have about 1 dollar on hand for every 10 they lend, or something like that.

Nothing like that, actually.

> it's called fractional reserve banking.

Its called mindless pig ignorant silly stuff, actually.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:58 am
From: Shaun Eli

An example:

Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that much).

Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.

Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
owing, let's say, $490,000.

Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers than
buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.

Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.

Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account, or
whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing to pay
$500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault that the
house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe hadn't defaulted
it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be living in the house
and making payments on it, regardless of what it's actually worth at
any random point in time. And you could say that it's maybe Joe's
fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't really afford, as well as
maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage broker's) fault for lending him the
money. There's plenty of blame to go around but the one who may have
ended up with the money isn't necessarily the culprit, if there is any
in any particular case.

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 11:38 am
From: "BillGross@gmail.ca"

If free speech tv is available in your area, watch a prog called in
debt we trust, gives a simplified,
easy to follow pattern as to how and why the credit crunch happened.
Appraisers inflated the hell out of values, brokers charged usurous
fees, mort bankers booked
huge profits on the CDOs they repackaged along with credit card debts
and car loans, the guys
at Goldman then sold them to anyone with the 10% margin it took to buy
them.
So, we have highly leveraged morts sold to highly leveraged banks who
in turn try to mitigate the
risk by engineering 'swaps' and selling them to other banks and hedge
funds.

This sound like a house of cards? Could be. Why does it result
in a crunch? Because the
banks and brokers burnt customers at home and overseas, now no one is
willing to back them
in future borrowings.
Substitute countrywide, gmac, etc for bank where neccessary, lol.
Like a fever, this will affect other lends and borrowers, eventually
we will all look at lower realty
prices and higher mort rates to offset the losses.

And yes, the huge bundles of cash ended up in the bonuses of the
brokers

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New IRS Email Phishing Scam offers Refund
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d23a19280890e78d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:40 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

New IRS Email Phishing Scam offers Refund

Updated Nov. 2007 - In a variation, an e-mail scam claims to come from
the IRS and the Taxpayer Advocate Service (a genuine and independent
organization within the IRS whose employees assist taxpayers with
unresolved tax problems). The e-mail says that the recipient is eligible
for a tax refund and directs the recipient to click on a link that leads
to a fake IRS Web site. The IRS recommends that recipients do not click
on links in, or open any attachments to, e-mails they receive that are
unsolicited or that come from unknown sources.

Suspicious e-Mail/Phishing

Phishing (as in "fishing for information" and "hooking" victims) is a
scam where Internet fraudsters send e-mail messages to trick unsuspecting
victims into revealing personal and financial information that can be
used to steal the victims? identity.

Current scams include phony e-mails which claim to come from the IRS and
which lure the victims into the scam by telling them that they are due a
tax refund.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:15 am
From: George Grapman

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> New IRS Email Phishing Scam offers Refund
>
> Updated Nov. 2007 - In a variation, an e-mail scam claims to come from
> the IRS and the Taxpayer Advocate Service (a genuine and independent
> organization within the IRS whose employees assist taxpayers with
> unresolved tax problems). The e-mail says that the recipient is eligible
> for a tax refund and directs the recipient to click on a link that leads
> to a fake IRS Web site. The IRS recommends that recipients do not click
> on links in, or open any attachments to, e-mails they receive that are
> unsolicited or that come from unknown sources.
>
> Suspicious e-Mail/Phishing
>
> Phishing (as in "fishing for information" and "hooking" victims) is a
> scam where Internet fraudsters send e-mail messages to trick unsuspecting
> victims into revealing personal and financial information that can be
> used to steal the victims? identity.
>
> Current scams include phony e-mails which claim to come from the IRS and
> which lure the victims into the scam by telling them that they are due a
> tax refund.
>
>
>
>
A local writer said that the dead giveaway that showed it was
phishing was the claim that refunds are proceed in 7-10 days.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LOADS of Freebies!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0a041af4d178a7f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:44 am
From: CreativeDesigns@gmail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:48 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

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TOPIC: Hot sell max nz air jordans sneakers, gucci purses, nike adidas prada
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a464ac546e0ecad9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:18 am
From: globwholesale15@126.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.globwholesale.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women
AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
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Leisure
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Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
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Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
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Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you
to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
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4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!

Website : http://www.globwholesale.com
Yahoo ID:globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Scrub Tops for Nurses (Johnson & Johnson)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b31c3e59770a9ff?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 10:48 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

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--
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==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 23 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Acheter cigarettes - Achat cigarettes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0e522c1a766b9482?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 12:48 am
From: ccssales@gmail.com

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 1:14 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

www.globwholesale.com
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:04 am
From: ccssales@gmail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 1:19 am
From: gert

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TOPIC: Getting a debt consolidation loan with a credit counselor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/553d35556f6b1743?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 1:39 am
From: blair11

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:30 am
From: George Grapman

blair11 wrote:

You should take out a loan for a remedial English class.

> We are basically finance based company in USA providing a such type of
> services debt consolidation, debt management, debt elimination, online
> debt consolidation, bed credit consolidation, Credit Counsellings,
> Debt Settlement, Debt Consolidation Loans, Collection Agencies to
> help you save money.
>
> If yes, try the following reliable financing services at
> simple,secure, lowest interest rate & fast approval. Just fill out
> simple
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> and get approved in minutes:
>
> Hey please help me to make best list of RELIABLE FINANCING SERVICES in
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> reliable services u found near you in USA only.

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TOPIC: +Learn How to Generate a 5 Figure Income+
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d014b20fa02b3690?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 1:47 am
From: "lilyjohn81@gmail.com"

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== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/57312af2e2a9d30a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 2:56 am
From: virig

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:05 am
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:09 am
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e5db6d7f95e62832?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:17 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

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TOPIC: Tabac en ligne
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8234aa6a4fae7f8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 4:53 am
From: ccssales@gmail.com

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0cc8581c93df50a5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2007 5:00 am
From: ccssales@gmail.com

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TOPIC: Cheap Nike Shoes-----------Cheap Nike Trainers
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== 1 of 1 ==
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