misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=enmisc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Ayone watching Hulu.com frre Internet TV? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c304c568cdd9f71?hl=en
* How are u playing the gasoline game? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fbeb9906bdd8972d?hl=en
* Sloppy Business Practice on Chase VISA card and Charter One Bank - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/72ded8c69f0b49f7?hl=en
* Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.10 Replica - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a9ef89aec38d103?hl=en
* Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 Replica - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bd4bc8ecb17702f?hl=en
* value value value it pays to tell people free is good - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8b759541c753e8ea?hl=en
* How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline? - 4 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en
* Omega Constellation Diamond 18kt Yellow Gold and Steel Ladies Watch 1277.30
Replica - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d883c6a424adc63a?hl=en
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4701190dd16d5c1f?hl=en
* Is it fraud or thinking ahead? - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2dd240757c24097?hl=en
* Aromatherapy Skin Care Works on the Body - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6112cda7b33258a?hl=en
* "A good illegal alien is a dead illegal alien". Cannot be disputed. - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7bb25151da20dba3?hl=en
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synthesis of buy ampicillin - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/62cff1c3ac15a56e?hl=en
* News article: Criminal records now available for public access - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6233bd899210a30a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ayone watching Hulu.com frre Internet TV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c304c568cdd9f71?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 5:49 pm
From: Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply
me@privacy.net wrote:
> Seems pretty cool!
>
> Decent selection...... works...etc
*shrug* Hulu, Joost, Veoh, AOL Video -- they're all about the same.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How are u playing the gasoline game?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fbeb9906bdd8972d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:30 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"WaterBoy" <waterboy@financier.com> wrote in message
news:a857104f-b35f-4837-9ece-1707b05077d3@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> .
> i bicycle..as i always have
> saves gas, and saves on medical bills [exercise]
>
> i'm semi-retired though, which probably isn't average;
> my only money endeavors are now on the WWW
>
> it disturbs me some to have a 2003 car in the garage
> with 16,000 miles on it!
Thats rough on a car to have it just set.
>
> waterboy
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:46 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e6c5c8ce-93fa-410f-ab12-b22c58d13fd8@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> I'm starting to fill up to avoid higher prices later. Used to get
> just half a tank in case prices drop.
I use the company car..........
My car sets in the driveway 5 days a week......
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 13 2008 9:46 am
From: Anthony Matonak
Dennis wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:15:53 -0700, "John Weiss"
>
>> A hybrid will not likely "pay off" in strict terms of dollar cost of ownership,
>> but the more fuel efficient your car is, the more "socially responsible" you
>> will be.
>
> Personally, I get all the "socially responsible" brownie points I need
> by not flying around the country in a private jet. ;-)
I don't travel much so I have to get my "socially responsible" brownie
points by not flying prostitutes around the country in private jets. :)
Anthony
--
Remember to support your local industry!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sloppy Business Practice on Chase VISA card and Charter One Bank
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/72ded8c69f0b49f7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:35 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:39:45 -0700 (PDT), yuer98idf@lycos.com wrote:
>Last month I paid my bill to Chase Visa credit card but it was one day
>over due. They payment was through Charter One bank's online
>electronic payment system. Without notice, Charter One suddenly
>increased the payment time from 5 days to 7 days (I did not realize
>that at the time of submitting the electronic payment), which then
>resulted in my overdue payment to my credit card. Too bad. I never
>been delinquent on any payment and my FICO score was over 800. I asked
>Chase Visa to remove the $39 late fee considering my one-time
>situation, but the rep refused. I asked Charter One to reimburse me
>the $39 for the penalty that Chase imposed on me, but they refused.
>OK, ultimately it is my fault on the late payment, but instead of "Win-
>Lose" situation, let's do a "Lose-Lose". I decided to suspend using
>Chase card for one year, and to close Charter One bank for good. Not
>everyone can make this kind of decision, but I can. I have several of
>other high quality credit cards and banks to use. I am sure my credit
>score will be back to 800 soon.
I've had to rip into them a few times myself and they are now on my
short leash. If the CC companies continue the way they are, I'll have
no problem going back to paying cash. My primary reason for using
them has been record keeping, and the percentage point interest has
been a plus. However, I'm not about to roll over and play dead when
they try to get aggressive with me. They get about 2.5% from
merchants, and whatever they get out of people who keep a balance. If
I pay cash money, I'm willing to negotiate a lower cost when I can to
make up some of that money. I can keep my receipts if I have to. I'm
a big boy.
FWIW, I just fired a bank for charging me overcredit fees after an
automatic deduction got raised without my knowing it and drew my
account less than $10 into the red. Over ten years with zero problems
and thousands of dollars in deposits and you want to charge me what,
instead of calling me???? I don't think so.
What I find most despicable about the CC companies latest tricks is
the one where they don't update the amount you owe online, and if you
just go by the amount shown on the net to pay your bill, you underpay
by a few bucks, tossing you in to the interest charges. I've learned
to watch more carefully, but I'm ready to start dropping cards into
the freezer. Their loss.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.10 Replica
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a9ef89aec38d103?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:46 pm
From: sales002@aaa-replica-watch.com
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Color IvoryBezel 18kt Yellow Gold DiamondMovement QuartzClasp Push
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service for this watch will be offered through Haob2b.com and not the
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click here for additional watch warranty information.Item Variations
1277.10, 1277.10.00, 1277-10, 1277-10-00, 1277/10, 127710, 1277Omega
watches have been a standard for quality and excellence for over 150
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Haob2b is proud to offer a full line of Omega watches; featuring the
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beauty, and sophistication. Haob2b is proud to offer a full line of
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note that If the total amount of payment is over $600(USD), the
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 Replica
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bd4bc8ecb17702f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:47 pm
From: sales002@aaa-replica-watch.com
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Gender : Ladies
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127715, 1277
Dial Color : Ivory
Bezel : 18kt Yellow Gold Diamond
Movement : Quartz
Clasp : 18kt Yellow Gold And Stainless Steel
Water Resistant : 30m/100ft
Crystal : Scratch Resistant Sapphire
Our Price : $ 250.00
Availability: Contact Us For Availability Omega Constellation Ladies
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25.5mm = 1 Dial. Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 Brand
OmegaSeries Omega ConstellationGender LadiesCase Material 18kt Yellow
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Color IvoryBezel 18kt Yellow Gold DiamondMovement QuartzClasp Push
Button DeploymentBracelet 18kt Yellow Gold And Stainless SteelWater
Resistant 30m/100ftCrystal Scratch Resistant SapphireWarranty Warranty
service for this watch will be offered through Haob2b.com and not the
manufacturer. Omega watches have a 2 year Haob2b.com warranty. Please
click here for additional watch warranty information.Item Variations
1277.15, 1277.15.00, 1277-15, 1277-15-00, 1277/15, 127715, 1277Omega
watches have been a standard for quality and excellence for over 150
years, when the company began as Switzerland's first watch
manufacturer. When elegance and strength come together to form an
extraordinary timepiece, the result can only be an Omega wristwatch.
Haob2b is proud to offer a full line of Omega watches; featuring the
Constellation series as endorsed by model Cindy Crawford. The Omega
Cindy Crawford Constellation watch series is renown for elegance,
beauty, and sophistication. Haob2b is proud to offer a full line of
other Omega watches, including Omega Seamaster, Omega Aqua Terra,
Omega Speedmaster, Omega double eagle, Omega Broad Arrow, and Omega Co-
Axial at competitive prices.Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15
is brand new, join thousands of satisfied customers and buy your Omega
Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 with total satisfaction . A
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Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 for secure, risk-free online
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State. Haob2b.com is rated 5 stars on the Yahoo! network.
Omega Constellation Ladies Watch 1277.15 Replica, With the mix of
finest craftsmanship and contemporary styling, not only does it
reflect the time but also care you put into looking good. choose one
to promote your quality and make yourself impressive among people
Thank you for choosing www.aaa-replica-watch.com as your reliable
dealer of quality waches including Omega Constellation Ladies Watch
1277.15 . we guarantee every watch you receive will be exact watch you
ordered. Each watch sold enjoy one year Warranty for free repair.
Every order from aaa-replica-watches is shipped via EMS, the customer
is responsible for the shipping fee on the first order, but since the
second watch you buy from our site, the shipping cost is free. Please
note that If the total amount of payment is over $600(USD), the
customer is required to contact our customer service before sending
the money in case failed payment. If you have any other questions
please check our other pages or feel free to email us by service@aaa-
replica-watch.com.
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Omega Constellation Ladies Mini Watch 1267.10 :
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: value value value it pays to tell people free is good
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8b759541c753e8ea?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:53 pm
From: buzzirk mobile
The concept behind Freebie Force comes from the mind of Seth Fraser,
the President and Co-Owner of Freebie Force - he is an entrepreneur
and author who wrote and published a book called "The Legal Thief",
which was featured on radio shows across the country, and taught its'
readers how to get everything in life for free.
It is this unique concept that allows you as a member of Freebie
Force
to benefit from a concept unlike any other. But what the book
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lifestyle that founder Seth Fraser has been living for over 10 years.
You see, Freebie Force members have already HAPPY TOUR
http://www.buzz2u.biz
grazie buzzirk bryan sizzle 800-242-0383 7733
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 6:55 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:fqeae0$atv$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> news:UPvyj.10464$yk5.9637@newsfe18.lga...
>> Dave wrote:
>>
>>>> a Prius which averages around 40MPG. Only a fool didn't expect gas
>>>> prices to climb. After all, the oil industry has a puppet doing their
>>>> bidding in the White House.
>>>
>>>
>>> You saying the puppet in the white house is billions of years old? Or
>>> perhaps you think he's got a time machine? That puppet in the white
>>> house has no control over the dwindling supply of a non-renewable asset,
>>> oron. -Dave
>>
>>
>> You are kidding right? Or just naive? GW's family investments have
>> been primarily in oil / Cheney's in coal. They have managed to
>> significantly improve their family wealth by creating fear in the world
>> of oil / energy. Increasing the cost / profits of energy has been been
>> their primary agenda since they were elected.
>
> OMFG, the level of ignorance here is astounding. I am no fan of the pres,
> think he should have been impeached many times over, for various reasons.
> But to claim that he has any control over the cost of a barrel of oil is
> like blaming him when a bad blizzard shuts down the freeway. If he
> benefits financially from the freeway being closed, it is not logical to
> say that he created the blizzard that closed the road. In fact, it is
> PRETTY FUCKING STUPID.
> Within our lifetime, oil will go well above a thousand dollars (U.S.
> Dollars) per barrel. That's not a prediction, I don't have a crystal
> ball. It is simple supply and demand. The president can't significantly
> influence that equation, as the supply will be ever more restricted.
> Anybody who believes otherwise is simply burying their head in the
> and. -Dave
OIL SPECULATORS.........
END OF SILLY THREAD.............
>
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 7:06 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"Dave C." <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:fqehl9$d2c$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> > OMFG, the level of ignorance here is astounding. I am no fan of the
>> > pres, think he should have been impeached many times over, for various
>> > reasons. But to claim that he has any control over the cost of a
>> > barrel of oil is like blaming him when a bad blizzard shuts down the
>> > freeway. If he benefits financially from the freeway being closed, it
>> > is not logical to say that he created the blizzard that closed the
>> > road. In fact, it is PRETTY FUCKING STUPID.
>>
>>
>> So the invasion into Iraq and his world-wide fear mongering is now an
>> act of nature? Amazing.
>>
>
> OK, so maybe you aren't a total moron, you just fail to see the big
> picture.
> The invasion and occupation of iraq is all about oil. That much is
> obvious.
>
> In the long run however, it simply doesn't matter. We could own every
> fricking oil well in the whole world, and it wouldn't stop the cost of
> gasoline from rising. Not for very long anyway.
>
> Imagine if all of the world's possible oil reserves were on U.S. soil.
> When
> the oil runs out, is it going to matter that we are supplying our own?
> Not
> really. We're facing a global crisis, and focusing on the fiasco in iraq,
> or insinuating that the president is getting rich from oil, those are just
> distractions. Focus on the problem, not symptoms or convenient (for some
> people) results.
>
> Again, the president has no influence over events that happened way back
> before recorded history. Oil was formed. Oil is being used faster than
> it
> can reform. Oil therefore will run out. Soon. -Dave
no it will not.......
>
>
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 7:12 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"max" <betatron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:betatron-80A6AC.09514902032008@news.ftupet.com...
> In article <fqeae0$atv$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>
>> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>> news:UPvyj.10464$yk5.9637@newsfe18.lga...
>> > Dave wrote:
>> >
>> >>> a Prius which averages around 40MPG. Only a fool didn't expect gas
>> >>> prices to climb. After all, the oil industry has a puppet doing
>> >>> their
>> >>> bidding in the White House.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You saying the puppet in the white house is billions of years old? Or
>> >> perhaps you think he's got a time machine? That puppet in the white
>> >> house has no control over the dwindling supply of a non-renewable
>> >> asset,
>> >> oron. -Dave
>> >
>> >
>> > You are kidding right? Or just naive? GW's family investments have
>> > been primarily in oil / Cheney's in coal. They have managed to
>> > significantly improve their family wealth by creating fear in the world
>> > of
>> > oil / energy. Increasing the cost / profits of energy has been been
>> > their primary agenda since they were elected.
>>
>> OMFG, the level of ignorance here is astounding. I am no fan of the
>> pres,
>> think he should have been impeached many times over, for various reasons.
>> But to claim that he has any control over the cost of a barrel of oil is
>> like blaming him when a bad blizzard shuts down the freeway. If he
>> benefits
>> financially from the freeway being closed, it is not logical to say that
>> he
>> created the blizzard that closed the road. In fact, it is PRETTY FUCKING
>> STUPID.
>
> That's not an arguement, baseless, fact-free rant.
>
> First of all, the question was about $4/gallon gasoline, not the price
> of a barrel of oil.
>
> So. What could have the president done, over the last 7 years?
> He could have:
>
> 1. instituted demand reduction policies by pressing for fleet mileage
> increases
>
> 1a. instituted demand-reduction policies by promoting bicycling as a
> meaningful alternative transportation.
>
> 2. Could have chosen tax incentives that rewarded fuel efficient cars
> instead of the most fuel wasteful SUVs
>
> 2a provided meaningful support to alt energy (electric) automobiles and
> storage battery tech.
>
> 3. Could have paid more than lip service to alt. fuel production
>
> 4. Could have assured his nominal programs already announced were
> actually funded.
>
> 5. Could have pushed the production of nuclear fuel systems and waste
> internment.
>
> 6. Could have pushed the creation of more refining capacity.
>
> 7. Could have made energy conservation a sincere national goal for the
> country through directives to the military and executive branch agencies
> and through public outreach messages via PSAs and speechmaking from
> himself and cabinet officers.
>
> 8 we won't even get into reigning in the cancerous growth of suburbia.
Good point here.................
No one wants to here the only solution as follows...............
ILIMINATE TRANSPORTATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE....
we love our cars
>
> 9. not embark on national military policy that stokes petroleum market
> volatiity.
>
> for starters, while i'm waiting for my coffee to brew.
>
> Obviously, some of these steps are antagonistic to others (1 & 6 in
> particular).
>
> Each of these steps would be a significant step in reducing the rate of
> rise in gasoline prices.
>
>
>> Within our lifetime, oil will go well above a thousand dollars (U.S.
>> Dollars) per barrel. That's not a prediction, I don't have a crystal
>> ball.
>> It is simple supply and demand. The president can't significantly
>> influence
>> that equation, as the supply will be ever more restricted. Anybody who
>> believes otherwise is simply burying their head in the sand. -Dave
>
> --
> This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people
> include in
> their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 7:16 pm
From: "Nicik Name"
"Nicik Name" <orbits@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:13th3bon411059@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "max" <betatron@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:betatron-80A6AC.09514902032008@news.ftupet.com...
>> In article <fqeae0$atv$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>>
>>> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:UPvyj.10464$yk5.9637@newsfe18.lga...
>>> > Dave wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>> a Prius which averages around 40MPG. Only a fool didn't expect gas
>>> >>> prices to climb. After all, the oil industry has a puppet doing
>>> >>> their
>>> >>> bidding in the White House.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> You saying the puppet in the white house is billions of years old?
>>> >> Or
>>> >> perhaps you think he's got a time machine? That puppet in the white
>>> >> house has no control over the dwindling supply of a non-renewable
>>> >> asset,
>>> >> oron. -Dave
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You are kidding right? Or just naive? GW's family investments
>>> > have
>>> > been primarily in oil / Cheney's in coal. They have managed to
>>> > significantly improve their family wealth by creating fear in the
>>> > world of
>>> > oil / energy. Increasing the cost / profits of energy has been been
>>> > their primary agenda since they were elected.
>>>
>>> OMFG, the level of ignorance here is astounding. I am no fan of the
>>> pres,
>>> think he should have been impeached many times over, for various
>>> reasons.
>>> But to claim that he has any control over the cost of a barrel of oil is
>>> like blaming him when a bad blizzard shuts down the freeway. If he
>>> benefits
>>> financially from the freeway being closed, it is not logical to say that
>>> he
>>> created the blizzard that closed the road. In fact, it is PRETTY
>>> FUCKING
>>> STUPID.
>>
>> That's not an arguement, baseless, fact-free rant.
>>
>> First of all, the question was about $4/gallon gasoline, not the price
>> of a barrel of oil.
>>
>> So. What could have the president done, over the last 7 years?
>> He could have:
>>
>> 1. instituted demand reduction policies by pressing for fleet mileage
>> increases
>>
>> 1a. instituted demand-reduction policies by promoting bicycling as a
>> meaningful alternative transportation.
>>
>> 2. Could have chosen tax incentives that rewarded fuel efficient cars
>> instead of the most fuel wasteful SUVs
>>
>> 2a provided meaningful support to alt energy (electric) automobiles and
>> storage battery tech.
>>
>> 3. Could have paid more than lip service to alt. fuel production
>>
>> 4. Could have assured his nominal programs already announced were
>> actually funded.
>>
>> 5. Could have pushed the production of nuclear fuel systems and waste
>> internment.
>>
>> 6. Could have pushed the creation of more refining capacity.
>>
>> 7. Could have made energy conservation a sincere national goal for the
>> country through directives to the military and executive branch agencies
>> and through public outreach messages via PSAs and speechmaking from
>> himself and cabinet officers.
>>
>> 8 we won't even get into reigning in the cancerous growth of suburbia.
> Good point here.................
> No one wants to here the only solution as follows...............
hear not here Nick Name
> ILIMINATE TRANSPORTATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE....
> we love our cars
>>
>> 9. not embark on national military policy that stokes petroleum market
>> volatiity.
>>
>> for starters, while i'm waiting for my coffee to brew.
>>
>> Obviously, some of these steps are antagonistic to others (1 & 6 in
>> particular).
>>
>> Each of these steps would be a significant step in reducing the rate of
>> rise in gasoline prices.
>>
>>
>>> Within our lifetime, oil will go well above a thousand dollars (U.S.
>>> Dollars) per barrel. That's not a prediction, I don't have a crystal
>>> ball.
>>> It is simple supply and demand. The president can't significantly
>>> influence
>>> that equation, as the supply will be ever more restricted. Anybody who
>>> believes otherwise is simply burying their head in the sand. -Dave
>>
>> --
>> This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people
>> include in
>> their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.
>
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Omega Constellation Diamond 18kt Yellow Gold and Steel Ladies Watch
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d883c6a424adc63a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Is it fraud or thinking ahead?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2dd240757c24097?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 7:47 pm
From: "John Weiss"
<skarkada@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> Here is an article on the same subject. Apparently there is a business
> that is helping in that effort.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/29walks.html?hp
Registration required: "Register for NYTimes.com."
Please post an excerpt or summary.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 8:01 pm
From: "John Weiss"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>> I will. Again this just came up in a casual conversation the
>> other day; I'll know in a few months whether it actually went
>> through as "easily" as this person claimed. Personally I'd
>> rather not have a default judgement on my credit record.
>
> Sure, but thats not necessarily a big deal for some, particularly if they
> save a substantial amount on the first house they are upside down on.
>
> I'm basically rolling in it and couldnt care less about the credit record.
That from a welfare hog dunnunda...
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 7:59 pm
From: "John Weiss"
<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
> You raise some good counterpoints. Tossing in a possible rebutal,
> people in business for themselves may often have the house in the
> spouse's name only, to protect it from being attached if the business
> goes south. In a case like that, she could default, and he could buy
> the next house, or visa versa.
>
> I'll agree with you that there are some potential pitfalls, however, I
> don't think they will amount to much. Going back to the S&L crisis in
> Texas again, I know personally of people who walked and never heard
> anything further from the lenders. The scope of the problem was too
> big and when the bureaucracy stepped in to try to clear up the mess,
> the ones who walked were not held responsible.
I was in the Mojave Desert of CA at that time, and the MANY affected residents
of the Palmdale/Lancaster area were abandoning their houses in droves!
However, the ability and reality of lenders keeping better [electronic] records
so they can pursue defaulters today is a significant change from the 1990s.
Also, since the crisis has expanded globally, there will be international
investors with LOTS of power who will demand that the local companies pursue
every dollar they can.
> In a major crisis, how many debt collectors can be hired, how much of
> that paper debt can be recovered without court fights and long and
> costly battles? There are going to be _thousands_ losing homes in
> this next few months. Courts aren't going to be looking favorably on
> lenders trying to bleed the last money from these people, and the
> public relations nightmare alone would be enough to kill any hope of
> any business that tried from garnering any future business.
Many of the companies (mortgage brokers, lenders) don't exist as viable entities
any more. Look at Countrywide -- they are [possibly] being acquired by another
major bank, likely for the possibility of recovering a significant portion of
the assets -- such an acquisition will NOT be to lose more $$! At this point in
the game, getting back 10% is a LOT better than getting back NOTHING!
> To put it another way- it sure doen't look like he has much to lose,
> even if he tries and fails. That is part of the anture of hardball,
> you play it from a position of strength, and being able to duck into
> bankruptcy is a position of strength when your creditors won't
> renegotiate.
I would have agreed with you in 1994; I talked with several co-workers at the
time who were seriously considering, or in the process of, walking away. The
majority of them, however, were older folx without kids to raise. We don't know
the age or circumstances of the OP's friend...
Today, though, I suspect the risk to the owner is MUCH higher, especially if he
is really capable of paying, but just doesn't "want" to...
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 8:14 pm
From: George Grapman
John Weiss wrote:
> <skarkada@gmail.com> wrote...
>> Here is an article on the same subject. Apparently there is a business
>> that is helping in that effort.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/29walks.html?hp
>
> Registration required: "Register for NYTimes.com."
>
> Please post an excerpt or summary.
>
>
Better yet here are some user names and pass codes:
http://www.bugmenot.com/view/nytimes.com
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 8:39 pm
From: "ChairMan"
In news:6cb6a1f7-e744-436f-b4ae-3bd29c755b2c@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com>spewed forth:
> On Mar 12, 12:11 pm, barbie gee <barbie....@NOSESPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, John Weiss wrote:
>>> "Seerialmom" <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote...
>>>> Ok...so yesterday someone I know said their family was moving into
>>>> a new house (not brand new..but newer than where they are now).
>>>> When asked if they had sold their current house or if they were
>>>> going to rent it out; this person disclosed that they were still
>>>> current on the house payment where they are now....but once they
>>>> move into the other house they're buying the old house would
>>>> eventually go into foreclosure. Aside from the major "ding" on the
>>>> credit rating for the next 7 years....I'm still trying to figure
>>>> out if this was smart planning on their part or just outright
>>>> fraud? At the least maybe unethical? Just curious if anyone had
>>>> heard of doing this before?
>>
>>> First, in this fiscal environment it is unlikely they will get a
>>> mortgage for a second house if the first one is not sold (or at
>>> least for sale in a reasonable market) or leased out.
>>
>>> Second, the bank may well go after them AFTER foreclosure for all
>>> the $$ they lost in the process. Among the actions they could take
>>> are garnishment of wages and putting a lien on their new house.
>>
>>> It's certainly not smart. Depending on the assertions they make to
>>> the new lender regarding the old house, it may become fraud. I
>>> consider it unethical, since they are likely stealing from me: The
>>> loan guarantee they likely have is funded from my taxes...
>>
>> I really hope serialmom lets us all know how this turns out!- Hide
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I will. Again this just came up in a casual conversation the other
> day; I'll know in a few months whether it actually went through as
> "easily" as this person claimed. Personally I'd rather not have a
> default judgement on my credit record.
Not only can it be a black mark, the bank/lender can 1099 the individual and
they will be responsible for tax obligation for forgiving the debt.
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 9:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
John Weiss <jrweiss98155NOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote
> <hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote
>> You raise some good counterpoints. Tossing in a possible rebutal, people in business for themselves may often have
>> the house in the spouse's name only, to protect it from being attached if the business goes south. In a case like
>> that, she could default, and he could buy the next house, or visa versa.
>> I'll agree with you that there are some potential pitfalls, however,
>> I don't think they will amount to much. Going back to the S&L
>> crisis in Texas again, I know personally of people who walked and
>> never heard anything further from the lenders. The scope of the
>> problem was too big and when the bureaucracy stepped in to try to
>> clear up the mess, the ones who walked were not held responsible.
> I was in the Mojave Desert of CA at that time, and the MANY affected residents of the Palmdale/Lancaster area were
> abandoning their houses in droves!
> However, the ability and reality of lenders keeping better [electronic] records so they can pursue defaulters today is
> a significant change from the 1990s.
Yes, but as the NYT article pointed out, there's a lot more involved in the cost of
doing them over than just records, so it doesnt actually happen that much in practice.
> Also, since the crisis has expanded globally, there will be international investors with LOTS of power who will demand
> that the local companies pursue every dollar they can.
They can demand all they like, doesnt mean that the cost of doing that makes it worthwhile tho.
In practice it doesnt happen much and wont in spades with the current sub
prime fiasco where who actually owns the mortgage is very complicated indeed
with so many securetizing most mortgages for the cash flow that produces.
And they arent that likely to throw good money after bad either.
>> In a major crisis, how many debt collectors can be hired, how much of that paper debt can be recovered without court
>> fights and long and
>> costly battles? There are going to be _thousands_ losing homes in
>> this next few months. Courts aren't going to be looking favorably on
>> lenders trying to bleed the last money from these people, and the
>> public relations nightmare alone would be enough to kill any hope of any business that tried from garnering any
>> future business.
> Many of the companies (mortgage brokers, lenders) don't exist as viable entities any more.
So they cant go after the defaulters.
> Look at Countrywide -- they are [possibly] being acquired by another major bank, likely for the possibility of
> recovering a significant portion of the assets -- such an acquisition will NOT be to lose more $$!
Yes, but they will do that with the asset that has been foreclosed on, they
wont be going after the borrower who has defaulted for the rest on the
whole because of the cost of doing that and proving who owns the loan etc.
> At this point in the game, getting back 10% is a LOT better than getting back NOTHING!
Yes, but that is done with the asset that has been foreclosed on, not
what other assets the borrower who defaulted may or may not have.
And its completely trivial to protect those other assets against any legal
action if you are deliberately defaulting on the loan because its upside
down. ALL you have to do is move those assets into someone else's name.
And the second house wont necessarily be worth much assets wise for
quite a while anyway, it will be the lender that is due most of the value
of the second house even if it does get sold out from under the defaulter
when the defaulter has been stupid enough to make that possible.
Which makes it even less likely that the original lender will bother
to spend the considerable money involved in trying to do that with
little prospect of getting any real return on that amount outlayed.
>> To put it another way- it sure doen't look like he has much to lose, even if he tries and fails. That is part of the
>> anture of hardball, you play it from a position of strength, and being able to duck into bankruptcy is a position of
>> strength when your creditors won't renegotiate.
> I would have agreed with you in 1994;
Its true in spades now with securetized loans and establishing who
owns the loan, and the deluge of defaults thats the result of the sub
prime fiasco and the original lenders going down like ninepins.
Thats ripe for exploitation by those who are now upside down on their loans.
> I talked with several co-workers at the time who were seriously considering, or in the process of, walking away. The
> majority of them, however, were older folx without kids to raise. We don't know the age or circumstances of the OP's
> friend...
It doesnt matter much, its an approach that will work today for almost
anyone except those who dont qualify for the loan on the new house.
> Today, though, I suspect the risk to the owner is MUCH higher,
Nope, MUCH lower actually, just because of the deluge of defaults that are happening,
and the securitization of the original loan thats become so widespread now.
> especially if he is really capable of paying, but just doesn't "want" to...
That doesnt mean any increased risk to the owner.
Those with loans in default wont even be able to afford to carefully analyse
the circumstances of those in default and go after those who look like they
might be the best prospects for the difference between what the foreclosed
property goes for and what was owed on that property before it was foreclosed.
They are having enough trouble just ensuring that they can actually survive
to be able to do that sort of thing currently.
And now the fed is swapping treasury paper for those bad loans, and
you can bet that no govt operation will have a fucking clue about how
to maximise the value of those loans that have been foreclosed.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aromatherapy Skin Care Works on the Body
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6112cda7b33258a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 8:10 pm
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TOPIC: "A good illegal alien is a dead illegal alien". Cannot be disputed.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7bb25151da20dba3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 8:27 pm
From: The Real Bev
Bush and Cheney cuddle while watching torture tapes. wrote:
> On Mar 11, 12:53 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Never forget, never forgive those who have failed to protect American
>> citizens from the invasion.
>> Estimates range from 3 to 5,000 Americans killed last year by
>> homicides and drunken illegal
>> alien drivers.
>>
>> http://www.amren.com/ American Renaissance
>
> Since America was stolen from the Indians, I would have to say anyone
> who isn't an Indian is an illegal alien. By the way, most Mexicans
> have Indian blood so they qualify to be here.
Aren't the Indians descended from people who traveled east over the land
bridge from Asia to Alaska? And didn't those people supposedly
originate in Africa?
Every chunk of land on earth was owned by different people at one time.
Right now this particular chunk belongs to us and we ought to have the
right to invite in or keep out anybody we (collectively, of course) want to.
--
Cheers, Bev
*****************************************************************
"Why does everybody always forget the eigthth dwarf? Just because
poor old Lumpy died of cancer doesn't mean he should be written
out of history." -- RMassey
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 9:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Bush and Cheney cuddle while watching torture tapes. wrote
>> Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Never forget, never forgive those who have failed to protect American citizens from the invasion. Estimates range
>>> from 3 to 5,000 Americans killed last year by homicides and drunken illegal alien drivers.
>>> http://www.amren.com/ American Renaissance
>> Since America was stolen from the Indians, I would have to say anyone who isn't an Indian is an illegal alien. By
>> the way, most Mexicans have Indian blood so they qualify to be here.
> Aren't the Indians descended from people who traveled east over the land bridge from Asia to Alaska?
Yep, and there is some evidence that there were others there
before they did that, and that they esssentially exterminated those.
> And didn't those people supposedly originate in Africa?
Yep.
> Every chunk of land on earth was owned by different people at one time.
Yep.
> Right now this particular chunk belongs to us and we ought to have the right to invite in or keep out anybody we
> (collectively, of course) want to.
Yep.
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TOPIC: News article: Criminal records now available for public access
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6233bd899210a30a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 9:49 pm
From: missxxy@gmail.com
Criminal records now available for public access
By Michael Smith
NEW YORK (AP) - Criminal records, once previously available only to
police and federal law enforcement, are now available to the general
public.
Bankruptcy records, DMV records, and various other civil records have
been made available to the public through the Freedom of Information
Act and the Patriot Act. People from all over America are now using
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"I never thought I would find information like this!" says Julia Lee,
who recently used the website to find out private information on a
potential business partner. "He was seriously in debt, and had pending
criminal charges!" she said.
Christopher Jones, of the Institute for Access to Information said
this opens up a whole new world to private citizens. "Previously, you
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