Frugal Living: Apr 29, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supply designer louis vuitoon jewelry at cheapest price,fee shipping,
worldwide shipping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b66f34cb8c4cf051?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 10:09 pm
From: cherry

Tiffany Necklace
-- Return to Tiffany necklace
-- Tiffany heart tag toggle link necklace
-- Tiffany open heart pendant
-- Tiffany heart pendant
-- Return to Tiffany heart lock pendant
-- Tiffany etoile heart pendant
Tiffany Bracelet
www.shoesdisplay.net
-- Return to Tiffany bracelet
-- Tiffany heart tag bracelet
-- Tiffany bead bracelet
-- Tiffany signature bangle
-- Return to Tiffany heart tag charm bracelet
-- Tiffany wire bangle
-- Tiffany Cushion Toggle bracelet
Tiffany Rings
-- Tiffany Heart Wire ring
-- Tiffany loving heart rings www.shoesdisplay.net
-- Tiffany lock rings
-- Tiffany open heart rings
-- Tiffany Somerset ring
-- Return to Tiffany Heart tag ring
-- Tiffany Signature ring www.shoesdisplay.net
Tiffany Earrings
-- Tiffany open heart drop earrings
-- Tiffany legacy drop earrings
-- Return to Tiffany heart earrings
-- Tiffany bead earrings www.shoesdisplay.net
-- Tiffany Aria earrings

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how long does it take for credit report to show bill has been paid?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fea1ed2e36a79558?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 3:44 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<93bef0c0-e14b-4d75-b241-2e2f9e6e55bd@z6g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
"aaronep@pacbell.net" <aaronep@pacbell.net> wrote:

> I am a business person who requires credit reports from individuals
> from time to time. If an applicant has an outstanding bill on his
> report, and then she does pay it, generally speaking, how long does it
> take for the report to show that outstanding bill has been paid?
>
> All replies welcomed!

I recently ran a credit report on myself and it was current as far as
all my bill payments are concerned, but I also pay every bill online.
Credit records may be a little behind for people who pay bills via the
old fashioned way.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Foreclosed Homes: The Effect On America
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/50a285ef08d9cb31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 4:12 am
From: Jeff Thies

Doug wrote:
> "Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hra1e8$3me$3@news.albasani.net...
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Apr 28, 12:58 pm, coldrenk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 05:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tracey12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <tracey12em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Wall Street Journal did an investigation on how many foreclosed homes
>>>>> there are on the market across America.
>>>>> The number is absolutely stunning.
>>>>> At normal home sales rates, counting all homes foreclosed and now on
>>>>> the market as well as those about in the foreclosure process, there
>>>>> are 105 months of homes to be sold.
>>>>> 108 months is 9 years, so thats almost 9 years of homes that will be
>>>>> backlogged for sale.
>>>>> What does this mean?
>>>>> It means that because of the massive amount of homes across America
>>>>> that are for sale, new home sales will be slow for years to come.
>>>>> It also means that all the skilled trades like electricians,
>>>>> carpenters, tile men, concrete men, and all the others involved in the
>>>>> construction of homes will be very poor for a long time.
>>>>> ABANDON HOME CONSTRUCTION NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!
>>>>> Americans are suffering tremendously. Our leaders deny help even to
>>>>> storm victims in the NE, but Haiti, and New Orleans were given
>>>>> billions. Will America survive this administration?
>>>> Hey there. Uncle Suckemoff keeps importing a million legal immigrants
>>>> a year!
>>> Good. The legals usually have well-paying jobs, and they'll be able
>>> to buy some of those houses.
>> In fact new housing starts are up 27%.
>>
>> http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/economic-indicators/us-new-housing-starts-posts-b0423/2010-04-23.html
>>
>>>> Does anyone support the rotten fucking government in Washington?
>>> More than I supported the previous rotten fucking government in
>>> Washington.
>> Just in case no one remembers where W left off:
>>
>> 600K jobs/month lost
>> Financial system in free fall
>> GM and Chrysler ruined
>> Afghanistan spirally out of control
>> Housing in free fall.
>> DJIA at 8000
>>
>> The trouble with the Tea Party is that success to them is the destruction
>> of the government. Haven't we just tried 8 years of that?
>>
>> Jeff
>
> You're assuming tea baggers support Dubya, which is a really stupid
> assumption.
>
>
Largely as individuals, they did at the time and still do. The
"movement" came later.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/04/tea_party_and_george_bush

[Tea Party supporters] do not want a third party and say they
usually or almost always vote Republican. The percentage holding a
favorable opinion of former President George W. Bush, at 57 percent,
almost exactly matches the percentage in the general public that holds
an unfavorable view of him.

Teabagging is all about self interest. Note how they came out in Florida
to support a program that was way over budget and behind schedule.

Tea Party is not really about being for anything, it's about being
against. Even things they used to be for.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/db8979631456e844?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 5:21 am
From: "h"

"Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hr9gkq$srh$1@news.albasani.net...
> Under the law, police must make a "reasonable attempt" to verify the
> immigration status of people they encounter when there is a "reasonable
> suspicion" they might be illegal. Those whose citizenship can't be
> verified can be arrested. But how is such reasonable suspicion aroused?
> The law forbids the use of race or ethnicity as the "sole" basis for
> questioning. So what are the other telltale indicators?
>

How about not speaking English? It's one thing to be multi-lingual, but to
not speak English at all is unlikely for someone here legally. Sure, there
are tourists and students, but again, what's the big deal about asking for
ID? I just don't get it.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 6:43 am
From: Jeff Thies

h wrote:
> "Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hr9gkq$srh$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Under the law, police must make a "reasonable attempt" to verify the
>> immigration status of people they encounter when there is a "reasonable
>> suspicion" they might be illegal. Those whose citizenship can't be
>> verified can be arrested. But how is such reasonable suspicion aroused?
>> The law forbids the use of race or ethnicity as the "sole" basis for
>> questioning. So what are the other telltale indicators?
>>
>
> How about not speaking English? It's one thing to be multi-lingual, but to
> not speak English at all is unlikely for someone here legally.

Amongst themselves, Hispanics usually speak Spanish. Irregardless of
status. Are suggesting they confront anyone speaking Spanish because it
was unknown whether they could also speak English?

Sure, there
> are tourists and students, but again, what's the big deal about asking for
> ID? I just don't get it.

But, it's not just that. No doubt why a slew of leading Republicans have
spoken against it. It's a lot of government overreach and will feed many
a lawyer, no less on the right than the left. In fact the law is written
to encourage lawsuits from the right.

Jeff

>
>

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 7:54 am
From: "h"

"Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hrc2ef$ut1$1@news.albasani.net...
> Irregardless of status. Are suggesting they confront anyone speaking
> Spanish because it was unknown whether they could also speak English?

"Irregardless". Really? Hmm, since you flunk the "speak English" portion of
my proposed test perhaps it is too strict.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 8:19 am
From: Jeff Thies

h wrote:
> "Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hrc2ef$ut1$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Irregardless of status. Are suggesting they confront anyone speaking
>> Spanish because it was unknown whether they could also speak English?
>
> "Irregardless". Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless

Hmm, since you flunk the "speak English" portion of
> my proposed test perhaps it is too strict.
>

Ignore the message, shoot the messenger. You are a piece of work.

Jeff
>

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 8:32 am
From: "h"

"Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hrc837$8mb$1@news.albasani.net...
>h wrote:
>> "Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:hrc2ef$ut1$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> Irregardless of status. Are suggesting they confront anyone speaking
>>> Spanish because it was unknown whether they could also speak English?
>>
>> "Irregardless". Really?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
>
> Hmm, since you flunk the "speak English" portion of
>> my proposed test perhaps it is too strict.
>
> Ignore the message, shoot the messenger. You are a piece of work.
>

And you cite Wikipedia as a valid source for the English language. Heh. You
obviously have no message I wish to hear. PLONK!

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 1:31 pm
From: Michael Coburn

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:26:26 -0700, coldrenkler wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:54:45 -0500, "Gewart" <gewart@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Cheap Tomatoes
>>
>>
>>Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
>>
>>CHEAP TOMATOES?
>>This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
>>Independent
>>
>>From a California school teacher - - -
>>
>>"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal
>>immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
>>
>>I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large
>>southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school,
>>meaning that its student s average lower socioeconomic and income levels
>>
>>Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens
>>, Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also
>>Title 1 schools.
>>
>>Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I
>>say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a
>>full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a
>>Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and
>>trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
>>
>>I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least
>>moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school
>>also provides day care center s for the unwed teenage pregnant girls
>>(some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience
>>of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
>>
>>I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding
>>for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my
>>budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the
>>computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been
>>carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel
>>humbled and grateful to have a free education in America ..
>>
>>I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers
>>whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the
>>country less then 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female
>>teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the
>>teachers were in tears.
>>
>>Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc.
>>Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but
>>to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>>
>>To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
>>contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
>>housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in
>>the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
>>
>>Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more
>>crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new
>>diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>>
>>Americans, We need to wake up.
>>
>>It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an
>>American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts
>>children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that
>>refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak
>>and worried about"political correctness" that we don't have the will
>>to do anything about it.
>>
>>If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone
>>you know.
>>
>>CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
>>
>>Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
>>
>>Consumers don't want expensive produce.
>>
>>Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
>>
>>But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth,
>>a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>>
>>Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He
>>takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents,
>>he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income
>>Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
>>
>>He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>>
>>He qualifies for food stamps.
>>
>>He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
>>
>>His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
>>
>>He requires bilingual teachers and books.
>>
>>He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>>
>>If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI.
>>If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at
>>(our) taxpayer's expense.
>>
>>He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners
>>insurance.
>>
>>Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed
>>material.
>>
>>He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in
>>benefits.
>>
>>Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after
>>paying their bills and his.
>>
>>Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
>>
>>THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL
>>MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY
>>SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .
>>
>>Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration legislation is
>>to be considered in 2010. This is important to working Americans, our
>>economy and our American culture and heritage..
>
> Good post.

Health care is not what will unwind the Democratic party. This is the
issue that could destroy the Democrats. "Free trade", offshoring, and
immigration are destroying the middle class of this country. It is not
possible to have social insurance systems for the entire world paid for
by the American producers. America must "nit up" or truly "lose its
living standards". The Republicans see it as "just don't have social
insurance and we can have brown skinned robots tending our lawns, the
Japanese can make the cars, and the Chinese can make everything else".
And according to Republicans, the Americans that "follow the leader and
do what the leader says is riiiiiiiiiiiight" will have jobs in offices
counting beans and lending money".

As to immigration: We must address the issue of swarms of illegals that
have entered the country in the last 20 years following the Reagan
amnesty and we must insure that the flow stops or that the immigrants can
contribute to the prosperity of the American middle class. The first cut
at immigration reform had some good points in that it allowed people who
had been here for a very long time and who had not caused any problems to
stay. It insisted that people who had arrived after to 2002 would have
to leave the country and apply for reentry. But it had no "card check"
or "e-verify" and no fines for employers who broke the laws. It also
granted Social Security qualifications for years worked while illegal to
those allowed to stay. The House of Representatives rightfully voted
that bill down. It was not a war between Republicans and Democrats. It
was a class war between employers and the common people. The Republicans
will march in lock step as rightarded on this one. The Democrats have to
do what is sane and rational. The politics of the current economic
situation do not bode well for rationality and Democrats. But that is
really nothing new. The left wing moonbats will continue to be the foot
shooting segment of the Democratic party.

--
"Senate rules don't trump the Constitution" -- http://GreaterVoice.org/60

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 1:54 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Michael Coburn wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:26:26 -0700, coldrenkler wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:54:45 -0500, "Gewart" <gewart@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cheap Tomatoes
>>>
>>>
>>> Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
>>>
>>> CHEAP TOMATOES?
>>> This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
>>> Independent
>>>
>>> From a California school teacher - - -
>>>
>>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal
>>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
>>>
>>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a
>>> large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1
>>> school, meaning that its student s average lower socioeconomic and
>>> income levels
>>>
>>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
>>> Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are
>>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
>>>
>>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program.
>>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll
>>> -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that
>>> would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental,
>>> with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
>>>
>>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at
>>> least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
>>> The school also provides day care center s for the unwed teenage
>>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
>>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or
>>> having family watch their kids.
>>>
>>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
>>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for
>>> anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new
>>> computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one
>>> month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative
>>> students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free
>>> education in America ..
>>>
>>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
>>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students,
>>> here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so much hell
>>> with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and
>>> throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
>>>
>>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc,
>>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
>>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>>>
>>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
>>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
>>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time
>>> in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
>>>
>>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs,
>>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
>>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>>>
>>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>>>
>>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an
>>> American third-world culture that does not value education, that
>>> accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15
>>> and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has
>>> become so weak and worried about"political correctness" that we
>>> don't have the will to do anything about it.
>>>
>>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
>>> everyone you know.
>>>
>>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
>>>
>>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
>>>
>>> Consumers don't want expensive produce.
>>>
>>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
>>>
>>> But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a
>>> myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>>>
>>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children.
>>> He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
>>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if
>>> he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of
>>> up to $3,200 free.
>>>
>>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>>>
>>> He qualifies for food stamps.
>>>
>>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
>>>
>>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
>>>
>>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
>>>
>>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>>>
>>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for
>>> SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of
>>> this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
>>>
>>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners
>>> insurance.
>>>
>>> Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed
>>> material.
>>>
>>> He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in
>>> benefits.
>>>
>>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after
>>> paying their bills and his.
>>>
>>> Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
>>>
>>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL
>>> MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS
>>> THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .
>>>
>>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
>>> legislation is to be considered in 2010. This is important to
>>> working Americans, our economy and our American culture and
>>> heritage..
>>
>> Good post.

> Health care is not what will unwind the Democratic party. This is the
> issue that could destroy the Democrats. "Free trade", offshoring, and
> immigration are destroying the middle class of this country.

Like hell it is. The real middle class has very little
involvement in any of the areas affected by that stuff.

The main exception is immigrant doctors, but even there,
the middle class is nothing even remotely resembling
anything like destroyed, whatever fools like you claim.

And some fool that ended up driving a truck quite literally
isnt anything even remotely resembling anything like
middle class anyway. Thats WORKING CLASS, stupid.

> It is not possible to have social insurance systems for
> the entire world paid for by the American producers.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

> America must "nit up" or truly "lose its living standards".

It hasnt lost any living standards at all, fool.

There might just be a reason why so many legal and illegal immigrants move there.

> The Republicans see it as "just don't have social insurance and
> we can have brown skinned robots tending our lawns, the Japanese
> can make the cars, and the Chinese can make everything else".

Another bare faced lie, most obviously with PC software, movies,
TV series, music, aircraft, military hardware, pharmaceuticals,
and the full commercialisation of almost all technology first.

> And according to Republicans, the Americans that "follow
> the leader and do what the leader says is riiiiiiiiiiiight" will
> have jobs in offices counting beans and lending money".

Those that were part of the 4.x% unemployment rate with an
immense legal and illegal immigration rate just before those
clowns were stupid enough to allow the complete implosion
of the entire world financial system, AGAIN, did a hell of a
lot more than just count beans and lend money, fool.

> As to immigration: We must address the issue of swarms of illegals that
> have entered the country in the last 20 years following the Reagan amnesty

Not even possible now, stupid.

> and we must insure that the flow stops

Fat chance, King Canute.

> or that the immigrants can contribute to the prosperity of the American middle class.

The real world is about a hell of a lot more than just the american middle class, fool.

> The first cut at immigration reform had some good points
> in that it allowed people who had been here for a very
> long time and who had not caused any problems to stay.

Its just not feasible to send everyone else back, fool.

> It insisted that people who had arrived after to 2002
> would have to leave the country and apply for reentry.

Completely impractical.

> But it had no "card check" or "e-verify" and no fines for employers who broke the laws.

That wouldnt have stopped those who had no alternative but not employ anyone.

> It also granted Social Security qualifications for
> years worked while illegal to those allowed to stay.

Thats the only thing that makes any sense as long as they had paid their FICO.

> The House of Representatives rightfully voted that bill down.
> It was not a war between Republicans and Democrats. It
> was a class war between employers and the common people.

Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.

In the real world, most of the middle class are the employers, fool.

> The Republicans will march in lock step as rightarded on this one.
> The Democrats have to do what is sane and rational.

No point in asking fools like you what is sane and rational.

You cant even manage to work out who the real middle class is.

> The politics of the current economic situation do not bode well
> for rationality and Democrats. But that is really nothing new.
> The left wing moonbats will continue to be the foot shooting
> segment of the Democratic party.

Corse some fool that couldnt manage anything better than
a fucking truck driver never ever does anything like that, eh ?

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 2:23 pm
From: liberal

On Apr 29, 4:54 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael Coburn wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:26:26 -0700, coldrenkler wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:54:45 -0500, "Gewart" <gew...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Cheap Tomatoes
>
> >>> Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
>
> >>> CHEAP TOMATOES?
> >>> This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
> >>> Independent
>
> >>> From a California school teacher - - -
>
> >>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal
> >>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
>
> >>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a
> >>> large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1
> >>> school, meaning that its student s average lower socioeconomic and
> >>> income levels
>
> >>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
> >>> Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are
> >>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
>
> >>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program.
> >>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll
> >>> -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that
> >>> would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental,
> >>> with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
>
> >>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at
> >>> least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
> >>> The school also provides day care center s for the unwed teenage
> >>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
> >>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or
> >>> having family watch their kids.
>
> >>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
> >>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for
> >>> anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new
> >>> computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one
> >>> month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative
> >>> students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free
> >>> education in America ..
>
> >>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
> >>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students,
> >>> here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so much hell
> >>> with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and
> >>> throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
>
> >>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc,
> >>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
> >>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>
> >>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
> >>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
> >>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time
> >>> in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
>
> >>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs,
> >>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
> >>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>
> >>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>
> >>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an
> >>> American third-world culture that does not value education, that
> >>> accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15
> >>> and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has
> >>> become so weak and worried about"political correctness" that we
> >>> don't have the will to do anything about it.
>
> >>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
> >>> everyone you know.
>
> >>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
>
> >>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
>
> >>> Consumers don't want expensive produce.
>
> >>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
>
> >>> But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a
> >>> myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>
> >>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children.
> >>> He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
> >>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if
> >>> he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of
> >>> up to $3,200 free.
>
> >>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>
> >>> He qualifies for food stamps.
>
> >>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
>
> >>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
>
> >>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
>
> >>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>
> >>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for
> >>> SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of
> >>> this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
>
> >>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners
> >>> insurance.
>
> >>> Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed
> >>> material.
>
> >>> He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in
> >>> benefits.
>
> >>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after
> >>> paying their bills and his.
>
> >>> Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
>
> >>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL
> >>> MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS
> >>> THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .
>
> >>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
> >>> legislation is to be considered in 2010. This is important to
> >>> working Americans, our economy and our American culture and
> >>> heritage..
>
> >> Good post.
> > Health care is not what will unwind the Democratic party. This is the
> > issue that could destroy the Democrats. "Free trade", offshoring, and
> > immigration are destroying the middle class of this country.
>
> Like hell it is. The real middle class has very little
> involvement in any of the areas affected by that stuff.
>
> The main exception is immigrant doctors, but even there,
> the middle class is nothing even remotely resembling
> anything like destroyed, whatever fools like you claim.
>
> And some fool that ended up driving a truck quite literally
> isnt anything even remotely resembling anything like
> middle class anyway. Thats WORKING CLASS, stupid.
>
> > It is not possible to have social insurance systems for
> > the entire world paid for by the American producers.
>
> Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
>
> > America must "nit up" or truly "lose its living standards".
>
> It hasnt lost any living standards at all, fool.
>
> There might just be a reason why so many legal and illegal immigrants move there.
>
> > The Republicans see it as "just don't have social insurance and
> > we can have brown skinned robots tending our lawns, the Japanese
> > can make the cars, and the Chinese can make everything else".
>
> Another bare faced lie, most obviously with PC software, movies,
> TV series, music, aircraft, military hardware, pharmaceuticals,
> and the full commercialisation of almost all technology first.
>
> > And according to Republicans, the Americans that "follow
> > the leader and do what the leader says is riiiiiiiiiiiight" will
> > have jobs in offices counting beans and lending money".
>
> Those that were part of the 4.x% unemployment rate with an
> immense legal and illegal immigration rate just before those
> clowns were stupid enough to allow the complete implosion
> of the entire world financial system, AGAIN, did a hell of a
> lot more than just count beans and lend money, fool.
>
> > As to immigration: We must address the issue of swarms of illegals that
> > have entered the country in the last 20 years following the Reagan amnesty
>
> Not even possible now, stupid.
>
> > and we must insure that the flow stops
>
> Fat chance, King Canute.
>
> > or that the immigrants can contribute to the prosperity of the American middle class.
>
> The real world is about a hell of a lot more than just the american middle class, fool.
>
> > The first cut at immigration reform had some good points
> > in that it allowed people who had been here for a very
> > long time and who had not caused any problems to stay.
>
> Its just not feasible to send everyone else back, fool.
>
> > It insisted that people who had arrived after to 2002
> > would have to leave the country and apply for reentry.
>
> Completely impractical.
>
> > But it had no "card check" or "e-verify" and no fines for employers who broke the laws.
>
> That wouldnt have stopped those who had no alternative but not employ anyone.
>
> > It also granted Social Security qualifications for
> > years worked while illegal to those allowed to stay.
>
> Thats the only thing that makes any sense as long as they had paid their FICO.
>
> > The House of Representatives rightfully voted that bill down.
> > It was not a war between Republicans and Democrats. It
> > was a class war between employers and the common people.
>
> Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.
>
> In the real world, most of the middle class are the employers, fool.
>
> > The Republicans will march in lock step as rightarded on this one.
> > The Democrats have to do what is sane and rational.
>
> No point in asking fools like you what is sane and rational.
>
> You cant even manage to work out who the real middle class is.
>
> > The politics of the current economic situation do not bode well
> > for rationality and Democrats. But that is really nothing new.
> > The left wing moonbats will continue to be the foot shooting
> > segment of the Democratic party.
>
> Corse some fool that couldnt manage anything better than
> a fucking truck driver never ever does anything like that, eh ?

Geez, in love with the sound of your own words much?

So what if the pp used the term "middle class". The point is the
damage illegals do to the US.

1) The US can no longer afford a growing population, new farmland
isn't being created and US food production is breakeven. One
significant crop infection and food prices will spiral into famine for
many Americans. The entire world is at a breakeven point, which is why
China is limiting family size.

2) Illegals underbid American citizens and legal residents for jobs

3) Illegals would go home of their own accord if their jobs
disappeared.

4) Their jobs would end if there was an reward of $25,000 - $100,000
for turning in the employer of an illegal. Even the illegal would get
the reward, and take it home with him/her.

5) Cheap labor discourages technological substitution. China and Rome
had the first stirrings of "industrialization" more than a thousand
years ago but it was uneconomical compared to cheap slave labor.

Research is on-going today to build robots (robots, not remotely
operated devices) that have the dexterity, mobility, and decision-
making capability needed by NASA but would also be useful as a
replacement for Mexican cheap/semi-slave labor.

Maybe you hate Mexicans and have no problem with giving them jobs that
end up crippling them. Yeah, "stoop" laborers end up crippled with
spinal problems by their forties.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: creditcards4u
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/de999df132bb592c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 6:54 am
From: p m

Tips To To Realistically Not Pay Credit Card Debts:
if you are seeking assign creditcard bill debt relief, you're in every
likelihood to turn to an professional expert or debt settlement
company. This is certainly a enthusiastic start, but earlier than you
take this vital step you can find many things you should take into
consideration. Like
what?
http://www.creditcard4u-vs.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: deciding to buy new stove - drop in or free standing?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62736bc44392b08a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 7:07 am
From: aj

Hi,

We have an old GE drop in 27 inch stove that needs to be replaced.
After doing the preliminary research, we found the following: The new
27 inch one costs $1100. However, a 30 inch drop in is around $640 or
a 30 inch free standing is around $350. We are looking for a cheap one
as we will leave this place in a few years. To get that extra 3 inch,
we need to hire carpenter. Carpentry work is more for free standing
than for drop in. For free standing, the extra electrical work is
needed for box and pigtail.

Thanks for your suggestions.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 12:41 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

In article
<df202608-0b77-459a-ae9b-fbf2f26f1bef@t2
1g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
aj <alg3210@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have an old GE drop in 27 inch stove that needs to be replaced.
> After doing the preliminary research, we found the following: The new
> 27 inch one costs $1100. However, a 30 inch drop in is around $640 or
> a 30 inch free standing is around $350. We are looking for a cheap one
> as we will leave this place in a few years. To get that extra 3 inch,
> we need to hire carpenter. Carpentry work is more for free standing
> than for drop in. For free standing, the extra electrical work is
> needed for box and pigtail.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions.

What's wrong with your current unit?
Would it pay to have it repaired? Have
you gone to Scratch and Dent Stores
(Sears Outlet comes to mind), but almost
all appliance stores have Scratch and
Dents (and/or discontinued stock) for
substantial discounts. Another option is
Freecycle.org, Craigslist or even eBay.
I would also suggest fatwallet.com

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 2:49 pm
From: Jeff Thies

Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> In article
> <df202608-0b77-459a-ae9b-fbf2f26f1bef@t2
> 1g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
> aj <alg3210@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have an old GE drop in 27 inch stove that needs to be replaced.
>> After doing the preliminary research, we found the following: The new
>> 27 inch one costs $1100. However, a 30 inch drop in is around $640 or
>> a 30 inch free standing is around $350. We are looking for a cheap one
>> as we will leave this place in a few years. To get that extra 3 inch,
>> we need to hire carpenter. Carpentry work is more for free standing
>> than for drop in. For free standing, the extra electrical work is
>> needed for box and pigtail.
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestions.
>
> What's wrong with your current unit?
> Would it pay to have it repaired? Have
> you gone to Scratch and Dent Stores
> (Sears Outlet comes to mind), but almost
> all appliance stores have Scratch and
> Dents (and/or discontinued stock) for
> substantial discounts. Another option is
> Freecycle.org, Craigslist or even eBay.
> I would also suggest fatwallet.com

I've seen a lot of beautiful drop in stoves that the store just
wanted to get rid of. Home Depot and BrandSmart seem to do this when
they change out their product line. About the $100 range, so to speak.
Often less.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A bunch of ants shows they are smarter than Christians!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/92c7c0706fa747e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 8:34 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"

On Apr 29, 4:58 am, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> well monkey man, you need to bone up on your research ability. maybe
> you should contact the following so that you can join right awayhttp://www.christiancycling.com/.
>
> there are lots of others ... heres a suggestion. go to google and
> enter 'christian bicycle clubs' ... happy biking! ;^-)
>

I'm sure they have tennis clubs too, but I don't see any bikes at
church, other than those of the hobos that go looking for food.

In my part of the world, Miami Beach, no such thing exists. I'm sure
the ratio of SUVs to bike riders among the Christians is 100 to 1.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surprise: North Korea is part of the Kyoto Protocol!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/03272d9bdfc3535d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 9:50 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"

On Apr 29, 4:44 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:46:37 -0700, TibetanMonkey,
>
>
>
> the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 7:11 pm, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> >> "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
> >> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a9970617-4a28-4045-99df-
> >> 3eff37212...@29g2000yqp.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > If you believe science to be accurate about the past, you should
> >> > expect science to be accurate about the future. Only an obtuse mind
> >> > (such as a Christian mind) can doubt that.
>
> >> Climate change, formerly called Anthropogenic Global Warming, until the
> >> skeptics pointed out there hasn't been any global warming since 1997, has
> >> about as much to do with SCIENCE as Creationism.
>
> >> --
> >> Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
>
> >> Larry
>
> > When the overwhelming majority of scientists believe is real, and
> > mostly the ignorants deny it... in itself that tells me something. WE
> > KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM, BUT IT'S UNCERTAIN HOW BAD IT IS.
>
> > But we have some doubts about the severity of the problem, ISN'T IT
> > WISE TO PLAY IT SAFE?
>
> Sure.
>
> But prior geologic history shows us the Earth heats up to just about this
> level before there is a drastic cool off, and it occurs every 150,000
> years. Golly, guess where we are right now?!??
>
> The IPCC posted this evidence on their web site, and then removed it 2-3
> days later. Gee, I wonder why?
>
> BTW, if geologic history holds true, this is not just a "glacial period"
> coming up, it is a full-blown Ice Age. Up to 70% of the Earth covered in
> glaciers. THere isn't enough oil in the ground to heat the Earth if this
> happens.

Play it safe, Hichikuru, just play it safe. We are too many monkeys
overcrowding this tiny planet, and then the SUVs came to add the
dinosaurs to the problem.

Tell me why we are in the cage intimidated to go out on a bicycle and
enjoy the sun and the moon.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What part of "What's good for business is good for America" don...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aa81d4f7a4132193?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 9:59 am
From: coldrenkler@gmail.com

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:41:18 -0500, THE-MAGGOT@webtv.net wrote:

>Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>
>>It seems that Governor Brewer is either
>>an ignorant, or is lying. Business is >already being affected by the
>>racial-profile, unconstitutional law.
>
>It's you and your open borders crowd that are ignorant, lying, and
>making illegal immigration a racial thing. You spend most of your time
>spreading propaganda, and making everything a racial issue
>instead of getting to the heart of the matter. The fact that it is a
>crime to be here illegally, the crimes that come along with illegal
>immigration, and the concept that illegals should not be held
>accountable for thie crimes, as well as the additude that illegal aliens
>should come before immigrants that apply to come to this country
>illegally USA citizens should just keep putting up with all the crap
>and crime, and not saying anything or doing anything about it.
>
>We do not want people like this here, we do not want to keep having our
>tax dollars used on individules who continue to rob, rape, and molest
>our childern, steal our ID's, shoot our police, bring drugs and gangs
>here. It is not about race, it is about crime and those who commit it.
>
>Illegal Aliens Crime
>
>http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50744
>
>Predatory Aliens
>http://www.predatoryaliens.com/index.htm
>---------
>Crime Victims Of Illegals
>http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
>-------------
>Mexican Crime Family Expands Throughout US
>http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim16.htm
>----------------
>Family Values
>http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/FamilyValuesLink.html
>---------------------------
>Some More Family Values
>http://www.lawatchdog.com/FamilyValues.html
>---------------------
>Escaping Justice Home Page
>http://www.escapingjustice.com/

The business whores who employ illegal aliens should be tried and
jailed. Big business whore is US National Chamber of Commerce who is
fighting the E-Verify system which allow employers to determine status
of employees.

Wall Street maggots deserve the gallows!

cole

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WALL STREET CASINO
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bee8637e9faa2b39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 10:04 am
From: "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"

On Apr 28, 8:34 pm, coldrenk...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 00:34:50 GMT, use...@mantra.com and/orwww.mantra.com/jai(Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman
>
> >Wall Street Casino
>
> >April 28, 2010 EDITORIAL, NY Times
>
> >Congressional Republicans have concluded that screaming foul about
> >the banking bailout and blocking financial reform is a clever
> >strategy for the fall elections.
>
> >This approach ignores some pretty basic history: that the banks
> >imploded while Republicans held Congress and the White House; that
> >President George W. Bush started the rescue; that many Republicans
> >voted for the bailouts; and that they stabilized a financial system
> >that was perilously close to collapse.
>
> >More important, it's a distraction from the very real reasons the
> >nation needs to tighten the rules governing finance. They were on
> >vivid display on Tuesday in a hearing room just down the hall from
> >the Senate floor where Republicans voted the day before to block
> >debate on a Democratic financial reform bill.
>
> >Current and former Goldman Sachs officials tried to defend their
> >practice of trading incomprehensible mortgage-based investments of
> >little demonstrable economic value and enormous destructive capacity.
> >Instead, they underscored why much of this work should be curtailed.
>
> >The Securities and Exchange Commission has accused Goldman of
> >defrauding clients by selling them a complex instrument without
> >telling them it was designed so another client could bet against it.
> >Testifying before the Senate subcommittee on investigations, Goldman
> >executives denied withholding information. They insisted there was
> >nothing wrong with selling mortgage-backed products while placing
> >bets against them.
>
> >They called it "risk management." Most people call it stacking the
> >deck.
>
> >We do not know whether Goldman broke the law, but we know this
> >gambling is too dangerous. Banks like Goldman turned the financial
> >system into a casino. Like gambling, the transactions mostly just
> >shifted money around. Unlike gambling, they packed an enormous
> >capacity for economic destruction -- hobbling banks that made bad
> >bets, freezing credit and economic activity. Society -- not the
> >bankers -- bore the cost.
>
> >That's why objecting to financial regulation overhaul on the grounds
> >that it might allow future bailouts is such a specious argument.
>
> >The bailouts, which many Republicans acknowledged were necessary at
> >the time, cost taxpayers about $87 billion, or 1 percent of gross
> >domestic product. The crisis cost more. Falling tax revenues,
> >unemployment insurance for millions of jobless workers and a fiscal
> >stimulus to stop the economy's slide is projected to boost the
> >federal debt to more than 65 percent of G.D.P. next year.
>
> >Financial reform is needed to try to ensure such a crisis never
> >happens again, and the bill cobbled together by Senate Democrats is
> >reasonably tough. It would ban many -- unfortunately not all -- of
> >the private, custom-made derivatives at the center of the financial
> >meltdown and force most derivative trading onto open exchanges. Banks
> >trading in custom-made products would have to build larger cushions
> >of capital to protect themselves.
>
> >The bill would establish a consumer protection agency to stop
> >predatory lending, impose new oversight on hedge funds and make it
> >possible for regulators to dismantle big banks that were deemed to
> >pose an imminent risk of failure. And it would create a $50 billion
> >fund, by the nation's largest banks, to cover commitments of a
> >failing institution that was being wound down.
>
> >Whatever Republican campaign mailings may say, the fund was designed
> >to avoid bailouts. The bill's failing is not that it's too weak. It's
> >that it could be stronger.
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/opinion/28wed1.html?hpw
>
> >April 28, 2010 10:25 AM
>
> >Goldman Sachs: Bloodied, Bruised but Still Profitable
>
> >Posted by Daniel Carty Leave Comment
>
> >Goldman Sachs emerged bloodied and bruised from Tuesday's grueling
> >day -- nearly 11 hours -- of testimony on Capitol Hill. Lawmakers
> >relentlessly pushed their narrative of the firm's actions leading up
> >to the financial crisis: they were gamblers, unscrupulous street
> >bookies who rigged the market for their own benefit, selling "sh**ty"
> >deals to clients only to bet against those same investments
> >themselves.
>
> >And yet.
>
> >And yet Wall Street didn't bat an eye at the sight of Goldman
> >executives serving as congressional whipping boys. Goldman's
> >shareholders, arguably the company's true clients, saw the firm's
> >stock price rise around $1 a share, good for a $549 million gain in
> >market value, according to Bloomberg.
>
> >CBSNews.com Special Section: Wall Street Under Fire
>
> >In fact, among the 79 financial firms on the Standard & Poor's 500,
> >Goldman was the only one that made gains on a day when the market as
> >a whole took a hit, with the Dow Jones industrials falling 213
> >points.
>
> >That underscores just how wide a chasm exists between how Wall Street
> >sees itself as opposed to the rest of the country.
>
> >"The cultural realities of what you all do is jarring to most
> >Americans," Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., told Goldman CEO Lloyd
> >Blankfein at the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations
> >hearing Tuesday. "This notion of selling a product that you're
> >betting against is hard for people to understand."
>
> >In her opening statement, McCaskill compared Goldman's behavior to
> >"raw gambling."
>
> >"You are the bookie, you are the house. ... you have less oversight
> >than a pit boss in Las Vegas," she said.
>
> >Watch CBS News Videos Online
>
> >The anger was largely bipartisan, but no one exhibited it more than
> >subcommittee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who repeatedly cited
> >an email from a Goldman employee characterizing a security they were
> >peddling as "one sh**ty deal."
>
> >When Levin pressed Daniel Sparks, the former head of Goldman's
> >mortgage department, about how the firm could sell securities that
> >they held in such low regard, he got mostly evasive answers and delay
> >tactics.
>
> >Goldman's position became clearer as the day went on -- they were
> >merely market makers who brought buyers and sellers together.
> >Goldman's opinion of the transaction was irrelevant.
>
> >"I don't think our clients care or they should care" what Goldman's
> >position on a security is, Blankfein told the panel.
>
> >Blankfein Uses Don't Ask, Don't Tell Defense
>
> >In the end, both sides got what they wanted. Congress got the chance
> >to continue the populist drumbeat for reform and beat up on people as
> >unpopular as themselves. But Goldman, no matter how many public
> >relations body blows they absorbed, defended its actions as nothing
> >more than normal Wall Street behavior and survived to do what it does
> >best -- make money.
>
> >Both sides could go to sleep last night satisfied at a job well done.
>
> >http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503983_162-20003639-503983.html
>
> >Revealed: Goldman Sachs 'made fortune betting against clients'
>
> >Chairman of Senate's Wall Street investigations committee accuses
> >beleaguered bank on website
>
> >Terry Macalister
>
> >The Observer, Sunday 25 April 2010
>
> >The beleaguered Wall Street bank Goldman Sachs boasted that it was
> >making tens of millions of dollars of profits daily by betting
> >against its own clients' investments, according to internal emails
> >released yesterday by a US senator.
>
> >The annual report of the bank, which is currently facing fraud
> >charges in the US, denied that it had generated enormous revenues by
> >wagering on the US housing crisis. Yet an email apparently from chief
> >executive Lloyd Blankfein to his colleagues says: "Of course we
> >didn't dodge the mortgage mess. We lost money, then we made more than
> >we lost because of 'shorts' [bets that the market would get even
> >worse]."
>
> >The damning material from the senate's permanent subcommittee on
> >investigations, which is reviewing the role of Wall Street banks in
> >the financial crisis, was posted on the website of its chairman,
> >Senator Carl Levin. It will be used in what promises to be an
> >incendiary public hearing on Tuesday when Blankfein is scheduled to
> >testify in front of the subcommittee.
>
> >In a statement, Goldman stood by earlier claims that it never made
> >significant profits out of the housing market and said that the
> >emails proved nothing.
>
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/25/goldman-sachs-senator-car...
>
> >End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman
>
> >Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> >Om Shanti
>
> > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
> >purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
> >have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
> >poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
> >fair use of copyrighted works.
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>
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>
> This weeks hearings:
>
> A wilderness of big fucking noses!
>
> cole- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wall street is worse than a casino since a casino is at least legal.
It's more like the Mafia. Wall Street execs bribe all our
congresscrooks and literally murder anyone who defies them.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 10:58 am
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
news:0d304a88-4d55-4b05-b2dd-e4c017b2dc9e@s4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

> Wall street is worse than a casino since a casino is at least legal.

The big problem is that most of what they did WAS legal.

That's why Congress needs to reregulate the deriviatives market.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 2:34 pm
From: Les Cargill

F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> wrote
> in message
> news:0d304a88-4d55-4b05-b2dd-e4c017b2dc9e@s4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Wall street is worse than a casino since a casino is at least legal.
>
>
>
>
> The big problem is that most of what they did WAS legal.
>

That is actually a really good question, not a statement
per se :) Derivatives themselevs are fairly old-school;
they were invented by a member of the Chicago Board
of Trade, where offsetting futures contracts were commonplace
forever.

> That's why Congress needs to reregulate the deriviatives market.

This is much harder than it looks. I believe ( but could
easily be wrong )that derivatives are fixing to be put on
exchanges as part of the Dodd bill.

Stocks crashed when on exchanges, so it won't be perfect by
any stretch. IMO, counterparty risk works like any
model of a network failure - like blackouts in electric
power. There is only so much instrumentation you can
add, and only so much control you have once a failure mode
begins.

--
Les Cargill

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 3:40 pm
From: "F. Kurgan Gringioni"

"Les Cargill" <lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hrcu1j$jno$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <betaxxx@earthlink.net> wrote
>> in message
>> news:0d304a88-4d55-4b05-b2dd-e4c017b2dc9e@s4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Wall street is worse than a casino since a casino is at least legal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The big problem is that most of what they did WAS legal.
>>
>
> That is actually a really good question, not a statement
> per se :) Derivatives themselevs are fairly old-school;
> they were invented by a member of the Chicago Board
> of Trade, where offsetting futures contracts were commonplace
> forever.
>
>> That's why Congress needs to reregulate the deriviatives market.
>
>
> This is much harder than it looks. I believe ( but could
> easily be wrong )that derivatives are fixing to be put on
> exchanges as part of the Dodd bill.
>
> Stocks crashed when on exchanges, so it won't be perfect by
> any stretch. IMO, counterparty risk works like any
> model of a network failure - like blackouts in electric
> power. There is only so much instrumentation you can
> add, and only so much control you have once a failure mode
> begins.

That's not what the problem was.

In the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act", which in the 11th hour was
inserted into an omnibus spending bill by then Senator Phil Gramm in 2000,
the trading of mortagage credit default swaps was suddenly legal again. They
were not legal since 1934 since the passing of the Glass-Steagal Act.

After Gramm's little sleight of hand, the investment banks could suddenly
sell "insurance" against a mortgage default. That's not a problem, but they
were allowed to do so WITHOUT COLLATERAL. They didn't have to show that they
had assets in reserve to back up the mortage defaults in the event that they
did fail.

It was almost like a license to print money. The higher ups in those
companies made huge bonuses by selling the credit default swaps in a
positive housing market because none of the loans were defaulting. It was
pure profit. The problem came when the housing market declined, the policies
came due and there were no assets to back up the policies. The banks were so
big that the financial system would grind to a halt if they failed, so the
government was forced to step in and bail them out. In the meantime, the
people who sold those deriviatives got to keep their bonuses.

The system is incentivized in such a way that it's bound to happen again if
it's not regulated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: online survey jobs & work in free time
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d1ec6b934cbb2337?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 29 2010 11:06 am
From: jobs part <10minutjobs@gmail.com>

http://teluguscope.com/job.html

http://teluguscope.com/links/onlinedataentryjobs.html

http://teluguscope.com/links/Copy%20Past%20jobs.html

http://teluguscope.com/links/Work%20from%20Home.html

http://teluguscope.com/links/Formfilling%20jobs.html

http://teluguscope.com/links/Survey%20Jobs.html

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 23 new messages in 11 topics - digest